Because every guild or pug expects you to be near 6k gearscore and they have no interest in low gear. Guild leaders have no interest in carrying lowbies and most pug raid leaders are only in it to reserve the BoEs.
A bit late but from my perspective (raiding endgame for almost 5 yrs now) its an issue of involvement. The average player has very low involvement on how to play effectively. Most games these days are easy, you dont have to spend time learning how to optimize your class, how to optmize your ui, how to do specific mechanics, how other classes influence raid comps and play. So you get a bunch of 5.5k gs's (overgeared btw) into ICC 10nm and not even the leader knows what he is doing so they clear up to pp, go vdw and RO (in 3 hrs mind you). I'm in several guilds, and in some of them I would consider "Casual", we accept these low involvement players and we have to hold their hand through everything I mentioned before. They lack the initiative. The warmane community heavily relies (imo) from older more knowledgeable players to explain how to play the game (most of the time in front of the boss before a pull). It gets really tiresome, most dont even engage. Older players have little to no interest in helping the "plebz" out. They put in the work, why would they have to put in work for them? Which is why 95% of endgame players have the Elitist Jerk mentality (and I totally get them too btw). Information on how to play is also available, but where? on discords, ugly ass forum posts, with no real data sometimes or plain wrong information. I would say most warmane players learn from "mouth to mouth". Classic era did make this better in some aspects, but not entirely. I know your(funky) perspective on how warmane has ez content but its really not to these people. WoW really requires a lot of skills to be honed over several hours to play at a high level, and even if you have gone through this time investment you still have to rely on other people to pull a raid together (you cant solo carry even if you tell everyone what to do). There is just too many complete newbies beginning to play wow in this day and age, and older players are quitting. This is why bane and rs10hc are far away from what most warmane players will ever achieve. So tldr its just gamer culture decline, games are too ez nowadays, players get stuck doing 6/12 nm clears (no progression, no incentive to keep going), games are too straightforward, massive/popular games have very easily accesible information.
Also, the very nature of raid lockouts makes improvement difficult. You can see videos, read up on encounters all you want. But you only have 1 chance a week to apply and perform. This makes improvement very slow, you have to pray that your new guildies retain information and correct themselves for next week. Its not like you can hop in test runs (normal runs before jumping into a ranked game). Ive always had this dream of having my own private server properly scripted so I can take my new guildies and run them through different scenarios however many times we need xD but I lack knowledge and drive to do this tbh
Almost every guild requires 6k+ to join, there is no established guilds which allows new players to get into raiding with around 5k gearscore, all the raiding guilds gatekeep icc at 6k+ gearscore. Only way you getting into a raiding guild is if you have celebrity status or if you are a buddy of someone already in one of these raiding guilds.
The server might be full but it feels kinda soulless and empty. Everyone just wants to rush, overgear, get boosted, reserve the loot, sell gold, buy coins, go go go, 2137 LoD kills on their BiS alts, like bots stuck in a loop. Doing things for fun? Gear progression? Achievement runs? jajaja /spit nub I reportu u! It wasn't this bad back in 2011-2014, not even close. I'd rather play on one of those solo azerothcore repacks to scratch that nostalgia itch, lol. Icecrown is straight up depressing.
I think many people who farmed 0 buff on icecrown, including myself, just got bored of it and realized its not "worth" it anymore. After doing many 0 buffs and even some challenges including 0 buff solo tank 2 heal w/o disc priest i just didnt see the point of it anymore and i much rather prefer to pump some numbers on 30% buff where i can afford to make a mistake than to think 24/7 about external assignments for infest, reaper etc. Also more people are older, have work, family and dont have much time for playing so they want to raid maybe 1-2hrs in a raid thats "guaranteed" not to be a wipefest which 0 buff challenges can sometimes turn into.
I think most of the players who want to do the non ICC 25 RS 25 content arent playing on icecrown, theyre on seasonal realms/classic/etc. Theres a big selection pressure on icecrown to retain on ly the players who want to do that narrow last patch content.
there are ppl doing 0 buffs but rarely. if you are in a above average guild almost everything is doable but leadership and lack of experience plays into it. from my experience however icecrown is just a booster heaven rn. essentially GDKPs but not really paying per item but paying per run with majority of players being bis carrying the nubs and then getting a % cut. 0% with everyone being bis with shadowmournes isn't really that fun either, only way to enjoy wrath for me anymore is simply progressive servers like frostmourne was.
hi, Funky, an almost 5 year old warmane player here. as for why there are not that many people hosting RS 10 man or Onixya runs. there are two kind of answers, and this coming from as i said, a warmane player here. short and yet simple answer: icecrown community is trash, like either too dumb or too toxic. Long and yet complex answer: besides of hosting RS 10 man for only emblems, when it comes to the loot table, it's pretty much as lackluster as worthless, like, there are only like two worth items from halion itself which are either caster leather-glove (which is pretty much shaman BIS gloves) and arpen plate-bracer (sought after for frost dks and fury warriors). Not only almost every loot from halion 10 man is worthless, halion itself on heroic is not a pushover since it pretty much demands of having a competent group of people with 264+ item level and above in order to down it (and also counting into consideration having a good comp of classes in order to provide buffs, auras and so on) As for Onixya, it's really an easy boss, but also an easy boss in which you can pretty much troll everybody in the raid to the point to cause singlehandly a wipe. therefor, not many people is not going to bother to do onixya 25 man, even though you have the best tank ring of the whole game/expansion. Now, since you mention past tiers like naxxramas and ulduar, yeah, not many people pug them unless they are doing their weekly quest for emblems. although the niche group of people that bothers doing those two are either achievement hunters or people that is collecting gear mostly for transgmog or herald of the titans and at some extent argent defender title/achievement (these two achievements demands you pretty much handicapping yourself by wearing somewhat of lowlevel gear and kill bosses). and also an edit: as for the 0% buff kill, honestly, i haven't done it myself. Although for an overgeared abundant server like icecrown, it's really not worth the effort and time to down 0% when you are not getting anything in return except for a self-imposed challenge but other than that, there is nothing to get in return as a reward.
i like your PoV however, 0 buff is honestly a joke. there is no real challenge there. Its why we were 2-3 healing it or doing it 20man instead of 25. Just to show how easy it actually is. Ony has a mount that im sure people would be interested in as well if nothing else loot wise I just struggle to understand why people complain about GDKP runs or the shop. Just host your own runs! its super easy and people will generally join them pretty quickly. I know ive been out the game for a while but naxx used to be hosted daily for titles and what not.
I'd say many of the things you mention come with every fully progressed Wrath realm, everyone just turns into ICC/RS bot. I have to ask you this. You always seemed to care that guilds don't do much 0% runs, I get that from your PoV it's easy, but to be real, besides extra challenge it's pretty much useless. So why do you care?
Great question. I'll answer here and probably do a follow up in a video as well to many of these responses. I wouldn't say it's useless to do RS10 since it has items needed even for end level. Same for ony. There are some good trinkets and not to mention a mount (if you mount farm) that can be gained. Achievement runs are another thing since honestly at end game what else is there to do? The server has been at end game for years and these runs used to be hosted. Now they aren't. I guess I'm wondering why even after years of the server being at end game that all of a sudden these runs are no longer done? A great way to hear up is to host your own runs for these older raids as well. I recall doing this with all my new level 80s was get into a naxx run or host one and by the time you are done you are geared enough to do heroic dungeons and get even better gear. It seems like everything is buying gear or paying gold for runs now which in turn hurts not only the economy by making the rich richer but a lot of these items bought in runs and on the market place aren't even BiS items. Prime example I see a lot of are the resto shamans out there who donate valynar which is only slightly better for them on a select few bosses. Yet they run with it all the time on instead of getting the cheaper and better mace from LK which does more healing for them since valynar has such a low proc chance for them.
Well people are really into gearing endgame instead of progressive gearing, i personally rather ulduar and naxx cuz they are chill, cool tmogs , more badges more scrolls but how ever personal references, and besides that, some people who are not familiar with naxx and ulduar and they see it hard n time consuming, pretty much thats why, as for onxiya i have no idea why, but tbh the tanking ring / trinkets even the caster cloak , polarm and what else is left are pretty good upgrades for people who are gearing, i even use the ring from onxiya on my bis dk/pala/ bear tank for bosses like sindy or halion , again personal references and i believe lack of information and misunderstanding is why people dont farm such instances, Bis block value trinket for TOGC tank add set is from Onxiya, and most parts are dropping from ulduar and some from naxx , idk in general its sad that people dont wanna do these instances
@@Redemptionproject09 yup you got a point, Rs 10 is kinda cursed with pugs, i personally dont do Rs 10 with pugs either, or unless its a semi guild run, as for T o c 10, that shi is easy af and you can clear that entire instance with like 4.7k ish group, and for Rs10? Aint no way you can do it with a 4.7k group
eh lord has its fair share of delusional people who still think 0 buff is different on both realms in terms of damage. most bosses (the hard ones) have the same HP as the ones on IC. until Lord players accept that then ill avoid it.
Because every guild or pug expects you to be near 6k gearscore and they have no interest in low gear. Guild leaders have no interest in carrying lowbies and most pug raid leaders are only in it to reserve the BoEs.
Simple answer, majority of warmane players are dog x)
A bit late but from my perspective (raiding endgame for almost 5 yrs now) its an issue of involvement. The average player has very low involvement on how to play effectively. Most games these days are easy, you dont have to spend time learning how to optimize your class, how to optmize your ui, how to do specific mechanics, how other classes influence raid comps and play. So you get a bunch of 5.5k gs's (overgeared btw) into ICC 10nm and not even the leader knows what he is doing so they clear up to pp, go vdw and RO (in 3 hrs mind you).
I'm in several guilds, and in some of them I would consider "Casual", we accept these low involvement players and we have to hold their hand through everything I mentioned before. They lack the initiative. The warmane community heavily relies (imo) from older more knowledgeable players to explain how to play the game (most of the time in front of the boss before a pull). It gets really tiresome, most dont even engage. Older players have little to no interest in helping the "plebz" out. They put in the work, why would they have to put in work for them? Which is why 95% of endgame players have the Elitist Jerk mentality (and I totally get them too btw).
Information on how to play is also available, but where? on discords, ugly ass forum posts, with no real data sometimes or plain wrong information. I would say most warmane players learn from "mouth to mouth". Classic era did make this better in some aspects, but not entirely.
I know your(funky) perspective on how warmane has ez content but its really not to these people. WoW really requires a lot of skills to be honed over several hours to play at a high level, and even if you have gone through this time investment you still have to rely on other people to pull a raid together (you cant solo carry even if you tell everyone what to do). There is just too many complete newbies beginning to play wow in this day and age, and older players are quitting. This is why bane and rs10hc are far away from what most warmane players will ever achieve.
So tldr its just gamer culture decline, games are too ez nowadays, players get stuck doing 6/12 nm clears (no progression, no incentive to keep going), games are too straightforward, massive/popular games have very easily accesible information.
Also, the very nature of raid lockouts makes improvement difficult. You can see videos, read up on encounters all you want. But you only have 1 chance a week to apply and perform. This makes improvement very slow, you have to pray that your new guildies retain information and correct themselves for next week. Its not like you can hop in test runs (normal runs before jumping into a ranked game). Ive always had this dream of having my own private server properly scripted so I can take my new guildies and run them through different scenarios however many times we need xD but I lack knowledge and drive to do this tbh
Almost every guild requires 6k+ to join, there is no established guilds which allows new players to get into raiding with around 5k gearscore, all the raiding guilds gatekeep icc at 6k+ gearscore. Only way you getting into a raiding guild is if you have celebrity status or if you are a buddy of someone already in one of these raiding guilds.
The server might be full but it feels kinda soulless and empty. Everyone just wants to rush, overgear, get boosted, reserve the loot, sell gold, buy coins, go go go, 2137 LoD kills on their BiS alts, like bots stuck in a loop. Doing things for fun? Gear progression? Achievement runs? jajaja /spit nub I reportu u!
It wasn't this bad back in 2011-2014, not even close. I'd rather play on one of those solo azerothcore repacks to scratch that nostalgia itch, lol. Icecrown is straight up depressing.
I think many people who farmed 0 buff on icecrown, including myself, just got bored of it and realized its not "worth" it anymore. After doing many 0 buffs and even some challenges including 0 buff solo tank 2 heal w/o disc priest i just didnt see the point of it anymore and i much rather prefer to pump some numbers on 30% buff where i can afford to make a mistake than to think 24/7 about external assignments for infest, reaper etc. Also more people are older, have work, family and dont have much time for playing so they want to raid maybe 1-2hrs in a raid thats "guaranteed" not to be a wipefest which 0 buff challenges can sometimes turn into.
Wow that is an interesting take. First time.i have ever heard that. Definitely want to dive into this more.
I think most of the players who want to do the non ICC 25 RS 25 content arent playing on icecrown, theyre on seasonal realms/classic/etc.
Theres a big selection pressure on icecrown to retain on ly the players who want to do that narrow last patch content.
idk i see quite a few leveling guilds, players getting carries, asking for requirements well below 6k etc
there are ppl doing 0 buffs but rarely. if you are in a above average guild almost everything is doable but leadership and lack of experience plays into it. from my experience however icecrown is just a booster heaven rn. essentially GDKPs but not really paying per item but paying per run with majority of players being bis carrying the nubs and then getting a % cut. 0% with everyone being bis with shadowmournes isn't really that fun either, only way to enjoy wrath for me anymore is simply progressive servers like frostmourne was.
hi, Funky, an almost 5 year old warmane player here.
as for why there are not that many people hosting RS 10 man or Onixya runs. there are two kind of answers, and this coming from as i said, a warmane player here.
short and yet simple answer: icecrown community is trash, like either too dumb or too toxic.
Long and yet complex answer:
besides of hosting RS 10 man for only emblems, when it comes to the loot table, it's pretty much as lackluster as worthless, like, there are only like two worth items from halion itself which are either caster leather-glove (which is pretty much shaman BIS gloves) and arpen plate-bracer (sought after for frost dks and fury warriors). Not only almost every loot from halion 10 man is worthless, halion itself on heroic is not a pushover since it pretty much demands of having a competent group of people with 264+ item level and above in order to down it (and also counting into consideration having a good comp of classes in order to provide buffs, auras and so on)
As for Onixya, it's really an easy boss, but also an easy boss in which you can pretty much troll everybody in the raid to the point to cause singlehandly a wipe. therefor, not many people is not going to bother to do onixya 25 man, even though you have the best tank ring of the whole game/expansion.
Now, since you mention past tiers like naxxramas and ulduar, yeah, not many people pug them unless they are doing their weekly quest for emblems. although the niche group of people that bothers doing those two are either achievement hunters or people that is collecting gear mostly for transgmog or herald of the titans and at some extent argent defender title/achievement (these two achievements demands you pretty much handicapping yourself by wearing somewhat of lowlevel gear and kill bosses).
and also an edit:
as for the 0% buff kill, honestly, i haven't done it myself. Although for an overgeared abundant server like icecrown, it's really not worth the effort and time to down 0% when you are not getting anything in return except for a self-imposed challenge but other than that, there is nothing to get in return as a reward.
i like your PoV however,
0 buff is honestly a joke. there is no real challenge there. Its why we were 2-3 healing it or doing it 20man instead of 25. Just to show how easy it actually is.
Ony has a mount that im sure people would be interested in as well if nothing else loot wise
I just struggle to understand why people complain about GDKP runs or the shop. Just host your own runs! its super easy and people will generally join them pretty quickly. I know ive been out the game for a while but naxx used to be hosted daily for titles and what not.
I'd say many of the things you mention come with every fully progressed Wrath realm, everyone just turns into ICC/RS bot.
I have to ask you this. You always seemed to care that guilds don't do much 0% runs, I get that from your PoV it's easy, but to be real, besides extra challenge it's pretty much useless. So why do you care?
Great question. I'll answer here and probably do a follow up in a video as well to many of these responses.
I wouldn't say it's useless to do RS10 since it has items needed even for end level. Same for ony. There are some good trinkets and not to mention a mount (if you mount farm) that can be gained.
Achievement runs are another thing since honestly at end game what else is there to do?
The server has been at end game for years and these runs used to be hosted. Now they aren't. I guess I'm wondering why even after years of the server being at end game that all of a sudden these runs are no longer done?
A great way to hear up is to host your own runs for these older raids as well. I recall doing this with all my new level 80s was get into a naxx run or host one and by the time you are done you are geared enough to do heroic dungeons and get even better gear.
It seems like everything is buying gear or paying gold for runs now which in turn hurts not only the economy by making the rich richer but a lot of these items bought in runs and on the market place aren't even BiS items. Prime example I see a lot of are the resto shamans out there who donate valynar which is only slightly better for them on a select few bosses. Yet they run with it all the time on instead of getting the cheaper and better mace from LK which does more healing for them since valynar has such a low proc chance for them.
Well people are really into gearing endgame instead of progressive gearing, i personally rather ulduar and naxx cuz they are chill, cool tmogs , more badges more scrolls but how ever personal references, and besides that, some people who are not familiar with naxx and ulduar and they see it hard n time consuming, pretty much thats why, as for onxiya i have no idea why, but tbh the tanking ring / trinkets even the caster cloak , polarm and what else is left are pretty good upgrades for people who are gearing, i even use the ring from onxiya on my bis dk/pala/ bear tank for bosses like sindy or halion , again personal references and i believe lack of information and misunderstanding is why people dont farm such instances, Bis block value trinket for TOGC tank add set is from Onxiya, and most parts are dropping from ulduar and some from naxx , idk in general its sad that people dont wanna do these instances
I get that. However why are so many people running t o c normals then? RS 10 is more endgame than TOC anything.
@@Redemptionproject09 yup you got a point, Rs 10 is kinda cursed with pugs, i personally dont do Rs 10 with pugs either, or unless its a semi guild run, as for T o c 10, that shi is easy af and you can clear that entire instance with like 4.7k ish group, and for Rs10? Aint no way you can do it with a 4.7k group
Because the server never been this bad. Horrible community.
I'm going to go as far as to say horrible. Definitely misguided and misinformed.
they just want to farm 30% buff LOD in full bis
The hell is the point of that when 0 is so damn easy though?
we re all on lordaeron....we do onyxia, rs 10 and 10hc , and our icc is only on 0 buff
eh lord has its fair share of delusional people who still think 0 buff is different on both realms in terms of damage. most bosses (the hard ones) have the same HP as the ones on IC. until Lord players accept that then ill avoid it.