The RTX 3080 Launch can't get any worse... Right? Wrong...
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- The RTX 3080 is the most controversial launch we have seen in a long time... and it continues to spiral out of control. Here is the Article we reference in this video - www.igorslab.d...
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@JayzTwoCents - I am a radio-frequency engineer specializing in RF filter design, and your observation makes total sense. One of things may computer users is that when you have computers with high frequencies, you have radio waves (aka EMC/Noise). The reason the MTCC is that they are capacitors all the way to 10,000 MHz! Those MTCC capacitors are formed to a very controlled RF Filter to keep the noise out of rest of the video card. If you use those larger capacitors, you have no filtering above it's self-resonating frequency, which may be as low as 1200 MHz! As a result, the higher frequency clock signal - and its noise - will get right into the system and that filter is invisible to it. Therefore, that "Boost Clock" is the problem.
huh?
@@lerzide Yes did you not read?
Props to Jay for actually looking into the comments, and pinning a viewer comment **VERY RARE**
I love comments like this, cheers to jay for pinning this and cheers to Kevin Gaukel
for telling us
Harmonic frequencies are a biatch.
In a perfect world the headline reads: "Scalpers Stuck with Defective GPU's"
Scalp these high dollar GPUs! Make the tried and true cheaper. More power, brother!
The cards themselves are fine. They work within NVIDIA specs. So far it seems boosting/OC is only an issue when it comes close to 2 Ghz and on cards that that only have POSCAPS. Cards with one or more sets of MLCCs have less or no issues.
What needs to be seen is wether NVIDIAs reference gave out unclear info or if the AIB partners cheaped out and tried to skip on an MLCC that is ultimately needed.
Another issue that needs to be revisioned is the required secrecy prior to launch. GPUs were only tested in a technical sense, but the interaction with the driver was impossible to test for the AIB partners until very close to launch. Either NVIDIA and AMD will have to put more trust into their AIB partners or they will have to find a secure way to offer AIB partners earlier access to the software side.
HAHAHAHA GOOD FOR THEM LOL
Literally LOL...
Sadly not everyone know that scalpers cards might be defective.
Guess it's a blessing in disguise that it was too hard to get one of these lol.
bakerXderek ayoo cheahhhh
Never buy products that have not been reviewed or tested.
Yes - I'm now pretending to myself I made a wise and voluntary decision.
You can say that 5 times fast!
yooo cheahh do a pc video i wanna see your setup!
The early bird gets the turd.
Underrated 😂
Lmfao🤣🤣
Best comment in the world.
The late bird gets the gift
Lmao
FYI, for the 10% chance someone reads this, none of this ended up being true, it was fixed in a driver by nvidia
That's good news, do you have a source?
@@ronswanson8229 There was a driver update. There never was a hardware issue on released hardware. Internally in testing there may have been but that's what testing is all about. Hardware sold to consumers never had an issue. Link below for the driver update:
www.extremetech.com/gaming/315714-nvidia-aib-vendors-update-drivers-to-fix-rtx-3080-3090-instability
Here is Jacob talking about the supposed issue:
"There were no 6 POSCAP production EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 boards shipped." Link Below
forums.evga.com/Message-about-EVGA-GeForce-RTX-3080-POSCAPs-m3095238.aspx
So like the 2000 series all it turned out to be was driver instability. Same thing with the 5000 series AMD cards, except that took AMD the better part of a year to fix.
What did the driver correct?
nah still happening today with latest drivers :)) I have to underclock my 3080 by -50 Mhz to avoid crash in any game. My card has just 1 of those expensive thingy whatnots. It stays close to 2000 + - 20 Mhz so I can`t complain.
@@ChrissonatorOFL As far as I know Nvidia's fix was to limit the boost frequencies so not really a fix.
Thank you for giving all the credit to Igor!
I work with him on a regular basis, doing reviews and other articles and this guy really deserves a bigger audience.
This is not the first time he has made discoveries like this one, and it happens quite often that other tech jurnalists just copy his findings without giving him credit.
I doubt that you will see this comment, but still, thank you for that.
I've never heard of igorslab. I'll check it out!
U got proof u work with him?
@@wtfman1217 If you go to the website one of the newest posts is a review of the new Corsair K60 RGB Pro. I wrote it, iook the pictures and published it. If you doubght it, klick on the author and see my other articles...
new respect for the ASUS TUF branding after this segment. Didn't have any opinions of that brand before..
Don't wanna jinx it but Asus has ALWAYS put expensive components and smart design in their builds. That's why ASUS hardware always costs more. They don't even beat around the bush about it. They always show and tell what they are selling you, months before the products even come out for sale. Just look any ASUS mobo video from the official ASUS channel on youtube and you'll see what I mean.
I personally have come to trust Asus more so than other brands I have been using there components for well over 10 years now my oldest component from
Them still in operation being a DDr3 board from 12 years ago
Yeah but their cards blow up just as any other brand, happened to my 8600GT, 780 and my friend´s 770 too and we are not messing around with OC.
@@bcp6524 Exactly, there is no need to put them on a pedestal, their stuff is injury prone as much as the other brands, my Core2Duo board blew up after 5 years and it was a Deluxe.
Gabriel Landry I get that I have a p9x76 pro with an i7 - 3600k it’s 11 years old and still runs
Asus constantly, going the extra mile and in this case coming up smelling of roses. Credit where credit is due.
I have to RMA my 2070 this week to them. Hopefully the process goes smooth.
Yeah I’m just waiting for a good ol Asus brand card
Bal'a dash, malanore.
@@SlowMenWorking lol good luck I had to RMA my 2080ti 4 times before they sent me back one that actually worked
why do you say that?
Weirdly enough, I hope that means people don’t buy the 3080 yet and all those scalpers get stuck with a bunch of less than desirable cards lol
That would be GLORIOUS!
Unfortunately, one loss on a release would probably only stop first time scalpers from doing it again, as much as I wish they didn’t exist. How hard is it for Nvidia to put some kind of anti bot protection into their purchase processes though? When you’re a ground-breaking tech company it’s a lot less understandable to have these kind of issues.
I hate to beg your pardon but what is a scalper again?
@@thehotdogman9317 scalpers are people who use bots to buy lots of the same "limited" product(s) and then sell them on eBay (for an example) for higher price
@@thehotdogman9317 buying a lot of it until it's sold out then sells it to others with ridiculous prices.
This is why you wait for reviews before impulse buying whatever is available.
Also another good reason to *always* wait for revision 2 of the hardware, which in this case *might* be hardware partners.
But yeah, I *always* wait for the second iteration of hardware, that way the really nasty bugs are (generally) sorted out by then
Makes me glad I chose to wait to see how the cards actually pan out. But then, I've never been much of a bandwagon hopper. So, there's that too.
True, however someone has to beta test them... Otherwise the issue gets caught much later with many more out in the wild. Bleeding edge has its benefits and its negatives.
You mean wait for the "unofficial beta testers"?
I don’t know why people were so desperate to get their hands on new GPUs ... fools
That bit about the wireless mic causing GPU crashes... holy shit. I did not know it was THAT sensitive! Very fascinating.
But it's not... Causation != correlation, and Jay would make for a terrible scientist
oh gear, please watch this, then do a thumbs down on this video, Jay is misleading a LOT of people like you refusing to take down this garbage video.
ruclips.net/video/lhyCdraz54s/видео.html
@@ts757arse He had that removed. Sold it for beer money
Battleneter yup, I actually like Jay, but he clearly went for the clicks w out doing proper research
Turns out it was just Windows drivers.
Every single year and when will people learn: Do NOT buy on launch!
Yeah, remember when 2000 series cards played a̶s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶i̶d̶s̶ Space Invaders?
Something like this happening is the major reason I had no interest in buying a card at launch.
Todd Payton LMAO
somebody has to buy it before us and find the problems, no amount of testing in house beats thousands of people using your product and finding bugs
Somebody has to buy on launch for these issues to come out. here is a better answer. dont try to use some shit brand and expect quality.
It’s kind of sad how Asus’s BUDGET card didn’t cheap out on capacitors, unlike cards well above msrp.
Back in the day TUF used to be the best quality hardware. Remember Sabertooth? Sadly Asus ruined the TUF branding relegating it to budget segment however it is refreshing to see TUF back where it started. Hopefully the quality stays with future generations and all other TUF produts.
Exactly all 6 are premium, which kinda shocked me, and is cheaper then the rest of the doornobs, Asus did awesome
Lets just hope thier Strix card has not cheaped out
ASUS "budget" cards will be above MSRP within a month, as stated they get a rebate from nvidia for the first month to match MSRP.
usually asus don't cheap out, they do mistakes that make their cards not as good. It's a different level of bad
I bought a 3070 aib card and had same issues. I had to undervolt it in msi afterburner to get it working. Voltage controll and precision boost cause a lot of instability.
Concrete details? Stop propagating lies, issue was already explained by nvidia and has been patched
So what exactly was the issue? Iam not up to date with this.
Windows drivers were the issue without going into detail.
@@Gumpa2 Windows 10 drivers. On Linux it was running fine.
People were getting issues with the strix and gaming x trio, and other GPUs. Even the FE.
It's shitty because the cards get reviewed initially with the higher boost clocks, so if firmware comes along to reduce clocks, prospective buyers are misled by the high benches.
As long as they're stable at the advertised boost clock (which seems to be the case as the instability is coming from GPU Boost's ability to go beyond the advertised boost clock) they're fine, with the firmware nerf they'll still be within the margin you should be expecting as a buyer as it's possible for any card even without this issue to have a max boost speed equal to the advertised one.
Good review sites will make new benches to cards that gets reduced clocks! Don`t follow bad tech sites!
@@RWoody1995 What you said has nothing to do with the issue I addressed.
@@haukionkannel It's only good if they delete the old content with the artificially high benches. Otherwise people may still be misled.
Like he said It might only be a case of the AIB's in question reducing the clocks by just 25-50mhz. If so, then you're talking a 2% to 3% reduction to performance at most. Which If you where doing say 120fps @4K, would equate to just 4fps less. You've usually got somewhere around a 4-6% difference, between the best and worst preforming AIB cards, anyway.
wrong again, You just won't stop. First mother boards then this. can't you just chill?
He milked 1.8mil views from a wrong statement .he won’t stop
"if that dont make sense to u, u r not coming to my birthday party"
my sleepy brain: wew9gg0w9geg9wg9ew-00 WHAT?
Best advice : "Skip the first wave"
doent metter because as Jay said, they will probably won't remanufacture. Just devolt via bios
Like what Magneto say in X-Men - "In chess, the pawns go first"
@@ofiravramento3160 Yeah, but then the performance will drop and it will be very different. Maybe then some people will decide to buy different cards.
Nah skip till 4080 comes out
2nd best advice : "Destroy the like button for the RUclips algorithm" 😂
My 1080ti: We can play a little longer, dad?
Me: A little longer, my son.
I hear yah😆🤘 The last card that made any damn sense
My 1070 agrees
@@thegoldenwolf274 1060 sc still going strong!
1050 2gb here
lmaoooo
FE - better made, lower price
AIB - worse made, higher price (and they even cut corners)
wtf is this
What does FE and AIB stand for
@@crozess7032 FE is founders edition and AIB are all the other cards
Nvidia fucked them on purpose by giving themselves a head start.
@@walkieer On top of that, there's strict guidelines from NVidia, how OEMs can build their cards (minimum specs and such). Overall it's mismanagement on Nvidia's part, that caused these problems.
Greed.
Okay it's been a year and I never got that birthday party invite
Imagine paying $1500 dollars to scalpers for a aib 3080 that crashes the second you play a game.
imagine paying $1500 for an $800 card
My 3080 works perfekt :D
Curious what does aib stand for?
Edit: Add in Board, got it.
Don't need to pay much money to the scalpers as they are selling you a second hand Graphic Card. Offer them less then the original price if they don't accept the price you offer them let them keep the Graphic Card.
Imagine being stupid enough to pay a scalper..
Personally I'd like to say thank you to all the people who waited in line for days to get these cards at launch and find all the bugs for us that are patient and waited for reviews.
Haha.
I went to the store at 11 am on release day and skipped the line. Heard from the store clerk that they didn't even get a single 3080 in (major PC component store). One of the dudes left almost in tears. All standing in line from 6am got them was a pre-order (which the store was doing now that the release date had passed).
It's like this for every launch of a new tech product. Gotta thank those who wanna rush getting it for being our beta testers! :D
Freak80MC the most loyal and trusting are the ones to be punished
Unless they purchased a reference card.
@@TheLastEpiscopalian Stop playing the victim. It's common knowledge that shortcomings and bugs are revealed when new Tech is released into the consumer market. With most people knowing this, the most naive are the ones to be punished. That's why I'm sticking with my $600 2070 super FTW 3 until they get the bugs worked out of the 30 series.
EVGA's RTX 3080 FTW3 uses 4 POSCAPS and 20 MLCC. They confirmed it on their own forum, and even explained that that's precisely the reason they aren't available yet, because they originally sported all POSCAPS, they realized they were crashing while testing and therefore decided to modify the cards.
They also mentioned that they had already sent out a few pre-production samples to reviewers with 6 POSCAPS and that those will have to be replaced.
BTW, as someone else mentioned in the comments, POSCAPS aren't necessarily cheaper. If you take a look at those they used, it's actually the other way around.
Usually a combination of both works better, according to experts.
The real problem is that there was not frequency limit and they crash when they go over 2000-2100mhz maybe a little higher ( remember that 1740 its the boost clock on 3080 Strix for example) so it got fixing by just updating drivers. and the brands because of all those who supported this misinformation began to change capacitors without necessity maybe some people even sold they 3080 because they were afraid that because of the capacitors they were "bad cards"
I am amazed at how uninformative this video is and how wrong it is and that Jay does not correct it with another video or comment.
And he will not try to do some kind of test or to inform himself before publishing this video, it is noted that he is only interested in visits.
A quote from EVGA forums:
Hi all,
Recently there has been some discussion about the EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 series.
During our mass production QC testing we discovered a full 6 POSCAPs solution cannot pass the real world applications testing. It took almost a week of R&D effort to find the cause and reduce the POSCAPs to 4 and add 20 MLCC caps prior to shipping production boards, this is why the EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 series was delayed at launch. There were no 6 POSCAP production EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 boards shipped.
But, due to the time crunch, some of the reviewers were sent a pre-production version with 6 POSCAP’s, we are working with those reviewers directly to replace their boards with production versions.
EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 series with 5 POSCAPs + 10 MLCC solution is matched with the XC3 spec without issues.
Also note that we have updated the product pictures at EVGA.com to reflect the production components that shipped to gamers and enthusiasts since day 1 of product launch.
Once you receive the card you can compare for yourself, EVGA stands behind its products!
Thanks
EVGA
They got caught red handed, trying to what they can get away first
@@janc4176 Sounds right, there's no week of R&D needed when the 1st question should be "what's different between our card(s) and the Reference drawings from Nvidia or Nvidia's ref+ design
@@janc4176 Yes but at least they are going with a HARDWARE solution instead of a BIOS fix.
@@janc4176 they weren't if they would be able to get it work properly, then they could spare money. But they weren't able to get it work. So they did what they had to.
Thank God I bought an Evga RTX3090 XC3 Gaming that I will receive next week. Never been disappointed with my 2080ti Black either and expect the same with that one.
“Demand for 3080 drops significantly as consumers wait for resolution from AIBs”
*Scalpers*: Yes I have 27 3080s to submit for warranty
Lmao that cracked me up. Just imagine some dude in a basement somewhere trying to apply for warranty for the same 30+ products
They just submit it under 30 different names it isn't that hard.
@@jeepmanxj 30 people living at the same address?
@@Safetytrousers And same payment method lol.
@@Safetytrousers What? You don't live in a 10,000 sqft house?
''Prematurely making a video about how it's this or that, as we've seen it doesn't really help anyone does it? It just creates a whole lot of confusion, misinformation, and it's not worth it to drum up a few quick views'' Hardware Unboxed
Well, look at how may views this video got... nearly 2 millions now. This also indicates one thing, we, the current generation of PC gamers are tech-enthusiasts in name. We are more interested in comparative graphs on FPS and % gained from overclocking.
RGB hearphone stands, mouse pads and cases are further proof of that.
@@praxisrebourne People like stories of failure. It's not good though when they are just stories, and they spread misinformation around the net. Profiting from erroneous speculation.
I have rewatch this this to confirm.. it's sad, i have been here from before he reach 500k subscribers..
@@Safetytrousers Or how about we like to know what we are buying before doing so. Not like some blind, naive sheep. You ever consider that? Probably not since you're one of the goofs who pre-ordered this.
@@AJ-xv7oh usually "we" like to have information that is accurate or speculation that is not treated as confirmed information
I remember an electrical engineering prof who worked at MIT, also published a book on Analog Circuits and the one thing I remember him stating was, and I'm paraphrasing from memory here so I apologise if it's off slightly, but "beyond a certain level discrete circuits start to see similar if not virtually identical problems to analog."
The faster you push it the worse it gets.
The 3080 tuf has everything for it literally. The price is 699$. lowest temps, extra hdmi, best power delivery.
YES YES YES
I completely agree! People shouldn't hate on the TUF
And the strix has 6 of the cheaper power delivery array. So I wonder what gives there.
Seems like Asus actually tried this time because their TUF series has been garbage in the past.
@@joshoa90210 Nah. der8auer took one apart a couple days ago and it had 6 MLCC arrays. It's probable ASUS just needed a prototype to photograph for marketing.
Oh boy, imagine being one of those who actually bought one of these buggy cards at a ridiculous price from a scalper.
I didn't buy from a scalper but imagine waiting outside microcenter for 24 hours to buy a 3090 and find out that Zotac decides to cheap out on a 1500$ card. That's just fking evil. And yes, they used the same capacitor layout from the 3080.
@@Momotaro0125 na, for 3090 you had to wait 48-72 hours outside the microcenter
@@Grubiantoll There's actually 2 Microcenters nearby where I live and the population isn't high overall. The one in Rockville, MD had 16 cards and the one close to me (Fairfax, Va) had 12. I was the 11th person in the line and I showed up around 11am on Wednesday. So no, you didn't have to wait 48 hours for a card, it just depends on the density of the population. I know you're just a typical internet cynic but at least do your research before you call out someone.
SERVES EM RIGHT! Dont buy from scalpers, and dont be a scalper!
teaches them a lesson to not buy from scalpers
For the sake of responsible journalism, please take this video down as all the information here has been proven to be absolutely false in relation to the crashes. It's a slight misunderstanding at best, and damaging to companies' reputation at worst.
Actually, the Asus RTX 3080 TUF Gaming seems to be one of the only cards which is fully packed with MLCC caps directly sitting behind the GPU. Props to Asus, also from a cooling perspective :)
"C state is power, P state is the actual clock"
What genius came up with that? The same guy who named Greenland and Iceland?
Lol
Well the guy who named Greenland Greenland was smart, unlike whoever switched up c and p
Bruh
they did that to trick people back in the day
I'm going to hazard a guess that the letters were originally assigned in a different language and everything got beaten with the stupid stick during the transfer to English.
"the best graphic card... that COULD have been."
Ouch.
AIB 3080s: I coulda been a contendah..
Loved this quote
To be fair, most people are struggling to get pre-orders down. The issue might be already fixed by the time mass pre-orders are fulfilled.
Nvidia seems to have handed AMD this GPU generation win on a silver platter.
I can't wait to see how they also screw it up. 😂
30 seconds... Woah
Imagine it AMD gpus have an equally bad launch
@@deathzowen8644 I know right! It'll be so funny. 😂
how has 2020 hit nvidia cards aswell
Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Very impressive.
i have a 2080ti and the noise in my case makes recording guitar a nightmare. I do not know what component is so noisy but its crazy. This was super interesting thankyou for taking the time.
Depends on what kind of sound it is. If I am not wrong, it is a coil whine, really annoying.
Next thing you will see on graphic cards boxes: "2 MTCC!"
*"But at least you get something for your money, even if it's crap."*
Best sales pitch since the guy who invented $0.99.
Sadly that can be applied to the 3080s as well, maybe he learned from them xD Let's hope they fix the next wave of partner models. I really want to have choices when Navi comes out.
since youve mentioned it, the price ending ith 99 was invented by Tomáš Baťa (the shoes salesmen) in the 20s
I guess the scalpers might wanna use the pitch now
Dodgy advice: I'll buy that for a dollar!
Even with underclocking 3080, you will get better results than your 2080Ti.. ;)
This is exactly why I am not an “early adopter.”
this guy is pretty smart
Exactly, wait a month or two and you'll have all the info you need. Im waiting until and release
Nah, you’re just broke 😂
Exactly! I held off until the other shoe dropped.. and here we are.
@@mandotv7308 You sound like one of those dudes scrambling to sell their 2080 ti 😂
and this guy has still not deleted this video.
yea it needs to be deleted, we are still seeing new people come in here and buying it.
@Chand Master crashes was due to windows drivers and not capacitor issues
This video did not age well. After new driver released from Nvidia yesterday: 456.55, CTD-Errors are non existent. Overclocked my card to 2085mhz core-clock, no issues what so ever. The same overclock crashed instantly before the new driver.
I was cringing all the way through it the first time, Jayz just blindly followed Igorslabs "therory" like a clastic super noob even using stupid terms like cheap and expensive capacitors lol
is this highest you can OC. try 2100mhz ill bet it will crash
@@46rrodriguez Tried a 2150mhz overclock, no crash, your assumption is false.
@@FrankAndreasLia nice. what exact model do you have
@@46rrodriguez GeForce RTX™ 3090 EAGLE OC 24G with all sp-caps.
Lmao I was so pissed I couldn’t get one the other day after waking up early as hell. Now I’m basking in the glory of peasant luck.
Word.
same with consoles. im excited as fuck for the new gpus and consoles but there's pretty much always issues with the first few waves of production (electronics can always ship with problems but u know what i mean).
It always best to wait a couple of months for an issues to arrive and get fixed before buying something new
lol agreed
You can still pre-order from overclockers.uk ; I ordered msi 3080 gaming x trio and I it has one of those fancy things on it so it's all good 😂
Moral of the story? Don't be an early adopter.
Edit: All the problems we are experiencing right now(and in the future) can easily be avoided by exercising a minor amount of patience. Do you actually NEED this card right NOW? No? Unless your career(or self-worth) depends on having this card immediately just wait a few months. You'll end up with a much better product that will last a lot longer.
Let the narcissistic manchildren deal with all the scalpers, software problems, hardware problems, and messy RMAs.
Don't scare the betatesters away!
Absolutely Aaron never buy a first run on these video cards
@@freightdawg6762 never buy a first run of anything!
You know damn well 90% would have cleaned out the 3080 inventory. Inadvertently the scalpers actually saved us from ourselves LMAO
when will the issue be fixed? will the bad units still be floating around in stores months later?
Hey Jay, has this issue been fixed? If not what are the best cards to buy that have the good components
PSA: While looking at the 7900 XTX, let's all remember the RTX 2000 failures and 3000 series driver and hardware issues. Both companies screw up launches and have bad drivers.
The scalpers + a possible AIB recall might be one of 2020's biggest jokes yet.
lol at all the suckers that bought it from scalpers that can't get their money back
Have you seen 2020? I'm pretty sure some other ghastly shit is gonna happen soon.
You will NEVER see an AIB recall on something that can be remedied with a BIOS update!
scalpers would not even be an issue if nobody bought anything from them.. if they cant sell they wont buy either...
Yup I'd it worth it ruclips.net/video/WII71-6EQ7s/видео.html
Igors lab is such a mvp
Ginkoman2 *Nvidia is such a mvp for not cheeping out when it comes to building the cooler and board of the 3000 series. Better coolers and better boards!
@@Tony-yn5rr They are NOT the MVP, they should've been way more strict and prevent AIB's from cheaping out on components in the first place. As a supplier you can set rules on what specifications are needed for the partners to be able to build using your product, this is just pitiful from both sides of the story.
@@Tony-yn5rr why do you want to jerk off a company like this even when they make a mistake? It doesn't mean you have to hate them, but why do need to act like nothing's wrong and it's the opposite instead? Don't you want nvidia to improve and be better? There's nothing wrong with valid criticism and people who find flaws in a manufacter's product.
@@DanielMendozaDev Nonsense. All nVidia has to do is give minimum specs for stable use. If the partners decide to cut corners in power delivery and overclock the snot out of the cards at the same time (their(!) BIOS), that's entirely on them.
@@mito-pb8qg They need to enforce MINIMUM specs, at the end of the day this affect's NVIDIA's image as well.
It's like Omron selling switches to Razer and saying "these are rated for 50m clicks, don't use them on products that require more" then Razer releasing a mouse using the same switches and claiming they're rated for 60m clicks.
At the end of the day it was the OEM's decision to cut corners but the supplier is impacted because they make a "shitty" switch that doesn't last 60m clicks.
OK these are decoupling capacitors and they are not for preventing cross-talk. They are to provide transient energy during high current demands (such as switching form one state to another). The Tantalum Caps provide bulk low frequency smoothing, the ceramic Caps (the bunch of 10 or 12) provide high frequency fast transient long duration current (they have a lower impedance than Tantalums). These are likely higher value like 10uF. The 0201 or 0402 capacitors will be ceramic and provide instantaneous high frequency currents for fast duration. Skipping out on the Ceramics will allow the core voltage or IO voltages to sag which can cause erroneous switching. Now you know. BTW Decoupling (bypass) capacitor layout is critically important at the GHZ realm of switching because the traces and vias all act as RF components and can actually resonate with the capacitors. BTW when an IC vendor gives you a reference design, FOLLOW IT! There is a lot of work that goes into the signal integrity and layout of a board and an IC pinout !!!
Does anyone know the actual price difference from POSCAPs to the MLCCs ?
Cheapest 470uF Aluminium polymer SP-CAP (cap that is used by gigabyte) costs around $0.60. 47uF MLCC costs around 0.03 - $0.04 (x10 = $0.4). So really when Jay says the card “has the cheap array”, really, it’s the more expensive config Source: Digikey and ruclips.net/video/T1I-kS3lZUc/видео.html @ 18:40ish
Good thing that only 12 people were able to buy a 3080 anyway.
Yeah those 10 people out there with cards must be pissed.
Can’t be. 4 of the cards are sitting right there.
My heart goes out to the scalpers sitting on multiple dodgy cards. I sure hope the word doesn't get out in case they aren't able to sell them on at all, let alone at a stupid markup.
When will the next card come out? I mean the RTX 3090 only! When will it be available on market again? 😮
Maybe nvidia is watching RUclips videos and trying to fix the problems lol
@Murali Dharan im not pissed at all, managed to fight the lags and ordered a 3080 Asus. Went from a 1060 and boy it runs smooth. Never crashed and performs very well
Looks like I ended up getting lucky not being able to find any to buy...
thats you and millions of people. looks like scalpers wont be able to sell their overpriced cards
@@hgr3180 cheers to that!
How so? There is no issues for the FE. its the third party manufactory's cheeping out
@@hgr3180 LMFAO you keep thinking that
Being broke has it owns pros and cons.
I managed to grab a Palit 3080 and I haven't had any crashes so far... And I've put the card through its paces.
@JayzTwoCents does the EVGA 3080 that you had in your earlier videos have this problem? I've been helping my friend try to get his hands on a 3080 but since this video came out I can't recommend he buys any 3080 (aside from the NVIDIA one) until we have a list of 3080s that haven't cheaped out on this component. Can you make a video showing all the safe cards that you know of? Or just post the brands that youre aware of that are safe? Thanks!
Imagine being one of the people who waited in line outside Micro Center for several days only to end up with one of these cards. RIP
@ bitwit's latest vid
Well if you got the TUF you would be pretty happy
Imagine selling your 2080 Ti to buy one of these cards.
I mean these cards are still outperforming the 2080ti, they just can't OC as high as other cards.
that 's reason why I dont buy hyped things. just wait until the dust settle, voila u saved a lot of money, good health and dont have to deal with these kinds of problems
Just to go more indepth form an EE standpoint, these capacitors are primarily what called "de-coupling" or "bypass" caps. They de-couple an integrated circuits power pins (vias from the BGA of the GPU in this case) from the large copper power planes in the PCB. The further a device is from its power supply output (DC/DC switch mode converter on the GPU) , the more inductance there is between the supply and the device its supplying.
High frequency, high power ICs like a GPU can have huge current spikes that occur at extremely high speed.
Basically inductance bad.
It limits how much current we can source from the power supply. The higher the frequency, the more PCB inductance impacts power delivery.
Because the reactance (complex part of impedance) of an inductor goes up with frequency (Xₗ = 2π*f*L), the higher the frequency of a current pulse from the GPU, the higher the reactive impedance it sees between itself and the power supply.
Here's where de-coupling capacitors come into play; they store charge and can be placed as close as physically possible to the power vias of the GPU. This means that the high frequency current now has a far lower impedance path into the GPU, it can temporarily come from a bypass cap instead of the power supply.
But wait there's more!
The physical capacitor still has small amounts of inductance due to how they are constructed. This is called ESL: equivalent series inductance.
There are many different ways and materials to build a capacitor so there are many sizes and types of caps available with different pros and cons. (size, price, availability, voltage, ESL, ESR, temperature, dielectric ect.... )
Basically, you can implement the SAME amount of capacitance with many sizes/types of caps BUT very different ESL values!!
You can still have enough decoupling CAPACITY in your caps but if the ESL is too high, at these GHz frequenies, the reactive impedance of the cap itself can greatly reducing its current sourcing abilities!!
Exactly the same problem why we wanted to put them there in the first place with the PCB inductance!!
In the case of the 3080 boards, it is possible that Nvidia didn't give correct or strict enough ESL target specs on their reference design. Because the reference design is not used for the FE cards, it may have gotten less lab testing and verification??? IDK
Or the board partners might have been trying to cut costs and used more of the big Tantalum caps which have a higher ESL than a bunch of tiny MLCC (multi-layer ceramic caps) all in parallel. Remember inductance adds in series not like parallel for capacitors.
Idk that's my rant 😫
Thanks for coming to my bootleg TED talk.
Edit:some corrections
Shouldn't the MLCC caps be in parallel, not series?
@@carl4889 Yes parallel! Thanks.
nvidia purposely gave an incorrect minimum requirements to AIBs so that when people find out about the issue, people would buy their founder edition more. Less reputation to AIBs, more to nvidia. one way to kill the AIBs so they can soon monopolyze their own GPU sales....👀👀😂😂.. - some conspiracy theorist
But to be more serious, one of the comments here already mentioned that the bigger POSCAPs tend to be more expensive than MLCCs. I wonder if the AIBs found more money saving in using POSCAPs because it takes less time in the pick and place?? 🤔 because they only have to place 1 component instead of 6?
I'm gonna pretend I understand what you are saying and agree, just because it's amazing the amount of knowledge and technology that goes into a graphics card design.
@@mik995px That's not the impression I got from this video... It seems like the reference design had 1 POSCAP replaced with the MLCC array, the cards that are failing used all POSCAP designs and would therefore be under speced....
Also as far as manufacturing goes, yes the increase in process time to place the 6 MLCCs would likely increase the costs far more than the actual price difference between the components.
Interesting note, Gigabytes 3080 Gaming OC got a rev. 2 model that changed thermal pads and reduced temps, good thing to learn that they took note of the high temp vrm issues.
And the crash to desktop or reboot still happen . I bought asus rog strix 3080ti couple weeks ago . Trying to figure it out why and end up here :(
I am in the same situation with my 3080ti. My entire PC will freeze or restart after 5 mins of gaming on any title. I just bought it and I'm PISSED
this is why I never get GPUs on realease day
No, this is why you don't buy anything on release day. It's a way of life. Let the idiots feel the burn
@@chickenclips the funny thing is that it happened for the 20 series as well, don't people learn their lesson?
Facts, gotta pay that founder's fee for day one adoption
@@chickenclips incoming triggered snowflakes that bought the FE
Yeah I waited 6 months for the 5700XT to iron out. Then I got a ASUS Strix 5700XT for $330, well under MSRP (it was "open box" and had a bent PCI bracket). So saved money and didn't have the deal with the growing pains.
It's funny that Nvidia actually had a thing about crosstalk in their presentation... almost as if they knew
Bruh moment
Haha! Yes, I remember that. I just watched the presentation as well!
Fairly certain the crosstalk was about GDDR6X signal integrity.
Micron did their homework.
nvidia didn't do their due diligence.
@@Vasharan "nvidia didn't do their due diligence" ...wat. The partners messed up, not nVidia.
@@Vasharan uh... Did you even watch the video clearly nVidia DID do their due diligence, it was the AIBs that didn't
Yeah. but there is a thing: why ever mention POSCAP (made of tantalum) when in videocards they use only 1.SP-CAP made of aluminum and 2.MLCC which are ceramic. Statement that using any of those can lead to failure is false.
From the nvidia subreddit reports, it looks like there were stability improvements with the latest drivers (456.55). People are reporting that games that were previously crashing for them are now running stable at stock with similar (or sometimes even few FPS bettter) performance.
LMFAO: "If that doesn't make sense to you, you can't come to my birthday party"
The old saying "never buy a first model year car" applies to video cards as well.
So true, Besides the new Corvette or NSX. lol
Applies to pretty much everything.
It's still cheaper than a 2080 and performs better, so it doesn't really apply here.
Or never marry a woman without taking her for a ride, or never buy a car before taking it for a spin. Or was it the other way around? Woman for a spin, car for a ride? Ah well, however you like it I guess. Anyway, the lesson, again, is not to buy the newest turd before even seeing benchmarks, reviews, etc.
I would agree but the history of the motherboard and AIB companies shows that they eventually release later revisions like a "REV.B" and those almost always cut corners. They learn where they can get away with it and eventually you end up with cards with the same model number but the REV.B version has slower memory chips or less power stages, etc.
This video is now debunked and a driver update fixed the issue. Retraction time.
The better speced cards dnt have the boost issue the driver just forced a lower boost clock on all cards so the lower speced capped boards for crash...so it's both really the caps filter noise the higher the clock the more noise is on the line....the better the cap the better the noise reduction on the line so you can get a higher clock....not a lot but a higher clock 20 30mhz its not much but if rather have those caps as the cards ganna be way more stable at stock frqs an can take more noise from the rest of the system...or surrounding crap like Wi-Fi...phones...mics ...to the kettle lol
@@foxxy46213 oh dear Jay REALLY needs to delete this video, please watch as to why.
ruclips.net/video/lhyCdraz54s/видео.html
Nvida didn’t learn from the last time.
I am still enduring the mess of the RTX 2080 Ti with pink artifacting all over my screen.
2 RMAs later and it’s still have RTX 2080s in circulations with issues.
The issue turned out to be Nvidia post release drivers (pre release drivers were fine), had nothing to do with capacitors. Jay needs to take down this video, its just terrible for so many reasons, but he is clearly leaving it up for clicks $$ and misleading people.
ruclips.net/video/lhyCdraz54s/видео.html
Everyone: "I can't get me a RTX 30 series card"
Jayz: "I have 5 and one stuck in transit"
Lol, must also be fun getting the for free tho
As much as folks are upset that RUclips tech channels have the cards, if it wasn't for reviewers like JayzTwoCents (who's opinion i respect) everyone would be buying GPU's based off Nvidia's presentation slides and bold marketing claims. And you'd be in a very uncomfortable position right now, if you were an early adopter. Thanks to these guys they are saving many ppl a lot of money. Nobody with any sense would buy hardware without some form of unbiased review in the first place.
@@MhillPlays This is why I'm never an early adopter.
@@Jambersome yeah i think you guys are taking it up wrong what Im saying
Lol
There is old rule in computer world: "don't be early adopter"
So true. I wouldn’t have bought as my 2080 super is fine for now.
Same with videigame consoles. Still fuckers keep fighting iver the "priviledge" of purchasing red ringing/overheating gaming machines. Slim revisions FTW! 😁
I call them the beta testers. LOL
@@oocinom Beta in life too lol
I am perfectly happy with my ASUS STRIX 2080 TI OC 11GB GDDR6
Amazing review Jay and Igor's lab work, suprised about iGame as it seems promissing they actually work on quality testing, we'll see if what they do (or did) about it
Side note (after he mentioned the noise powerlines make): Take a fluorescent tube light and put one end on the ground under the huge transmission power lines and it will light up. Not full brightness, but it'll flicker. Even just holding it in the air will make it flicker, but it works better when it's grounded. Kinda makes you realize how much power is running through those lines when it can start to light up a bulb that's 100ft below them.
Really?
Man it's going to be hilarious if all of those scalpers are stuck with unstable cards that the companies will not warranty because they are scalpers lmao
Santiago Rocha warranty is not needed. Just run the new firmware and you Are fine.. and Also slower, but that does not tricker warranty...
companies do not care if you are a scalper, that does not void warranty.
if word gets out that certain models should be avoided due to issues, their price will have to go down. So if scalpers bought $800 cards hoping to sell them for $1000, now they suddenly have to go $700 or below. AIBs will probably come out with revisions of those models, maybe change the branding so they can still sell the new cards. May be wishful thinking, but just hate those scalpers with a passion.
Do you really think a company checks whether u are a scalper or not? They don't give the slightest fck, unless it's some crazy small store that has a lot of financial problems
Beautiful Beautiful days ahead if true!
Lol have a whole new appreciation for Actually Hardcore Overclocking’s PCB analysis videos now.
12:30
That laught behind the camera...hahaha
Him disassembling and touching the inside of these brand new expensive cards just makes me so nervous D:
"Hey my GPU is crashing"
"Have you tried making your PC case warmer?"
Brilliant solution.
Waiting for tips on stuffing cotton wool into PC cases...😂
Just cheap out on the airflow and add a front intake rad
Finally a use for that terrible 12 fan case with no airflow that I decided not to buy because I wanted to be sensible...
just use red rgb strip and case fans
PC gaming is accessible is the biggest lie we ever told people
3rd party manufactures cutting corners, using substandard components & increasing the price to gain extra profit.
Never heard of that before....
Cutting corners. With expensive tantalum capacitors? None of this makes sense.
This is on Nvidia for not releasing drivers even to their partners before launch so they could test what they’re building for fear of leaks that disprove their announcement claims and the poor performance below 4K.
@@cheesetomatoes yeah that's why I think this is so odd. They probably didn't realize the card would try to pull that much power with gpu boost
We knew Nvidia was selling the FE as loss leaders to get better day one reviews, was inevitable that the AIBs would struggle to get their normal margins on them after that.
sounds like boeing....
c states stands for core states which is for power states, p states stands for package states which is for mainly clock speed/turbo
Just let me say it before this video starts it's the power supply that thing's a beast it literally eats up all the power for the whole commuter
Those scalpers are having a lot of fun with THIS card. xD
That's what they get for scalping lol
Literally just said this to my friend lol. Serves them right hope they go broke for scalping
Plot twist, it was made on purpose to fuck scalpers (calm down guys, I'm joking)
I'm happy with this statement hahaha
They aren't going to use the cards, just sell it to not informed users as the most of users are
RTX ON......
BLACK SCREEN ON!
Actually it sounds like the other way around: less load on the GPU = higher temperature = lower frequencies = less chance for a crash
@@shinyhappyrem8728 lol r/woosh
@@donfrancis123 that's not a woosh at all...
Surely 1 year on they have fixed this issue? I ordered a Gigabyte 3080 yesterday.
Jay. See People should have listened. Don't buy it just yet. Wait a bit!!! Might as well have a cocktail while you build and rebuild your new computer. Just make sure you use the air conditioner.
Don't worry, Nvidia sorted that out themselves.
@@xAnimeID Isn't that the truth. I had every intention of buying already, but I am NOT paying above MSRP - which may have saved me in this case.
Wasnt Jay hyping new rtx cards? Like he basically an instigator
My mentality has always been wait at least a month or three at the minimum before I buy a new product. By then, demand will have likely lessened and I can buy the product easily, and I might also be aware of any potential hardware defects that product might have from what others say about it. I could wait even longer if I need to. Never in any rush to buy anything, never preordered anything. It's not like I'm strapped for cash either that I can't buy a new product day one and risk some hardware defects. I just find the practice of early adoption to be very silly, especially in regards to electronic devices that may or may not have a myriad of technical issues. Of course there's gonna be some early adopter folks who wanna argue with me about this, but you do you. This is just my view.
Thats why I only upgraded my PSU and now I can wait
gamer's nexus: we sell only the highest quality merchandise
jay: i sell crap, but buy it anyway.
LMAO
meanwhile gamers nexus products are the latest of news for issues. Ironic.
Seth Larcomb Can you explain what issues they have?
@@kevinyu6615 I'm curious too, do the shirts have holes in them?
@@Darkyahweh Can you explain what's the issue?
Jay’s transparent.
I want them to address the vram issue! my fe 3080ti hits 106vram in some games very close to throttling and not just in intense triple a titles.
You can partially (well.. entirely) blame nvidia for using crappy paste and even-more-crappy pads on the FE lines for that little gift. I dropped around 10C off the GPU, and 20C off my memory exchange just by tearing down the card, cleaning it, then rebuilding using quality paste (Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut), and pads (GelLid GP Extreme 2mm and 3mm). It wasn't cheap (cost about 60$ US is materials), but was absolutely worth it.
i love how that $2000 mini custom corsair is sitting bye garbage bags.. Big sigh me still using a gtx 550ti
2080ti owners feeling a bit better with these current problems
Didn’t EVGA cards have a problem too? Or was that the 2080
I even flashed a new bios to mine to celebrate/hold me over with some extra watts lol
Sam Satalof honestly no idea, I’m sitting here with a cute lil 1660 super lmao
Not if they sold it and replaced with the 3080
The 3070 is on its way
well good thing 90% scalpers have the cards anyways haha
true
mark jones But nearly 100% of the FE cards, which work fine. :(
@@RatbagTheCoward Yeah rest in peice I had the 90 in my cart but it wouldn't checkout
Tim@NVIDIA - NVIDIA posted a driver this morning that improves stability. Regarding partner board designs, our partners regularly customize their designs and we work closely with them in the process. The appropriate number of POSCAP vs. MLCC groupings can vary depending on the design and is not necessarily indicative of quality.
oups..
Those "more expensive" capacitors by the way are still not expensive. Maybe to setup your board placement machines to do that process might be time consuming, but the pieces themselves are really not what you would call costly when purchased in the quantities that these manufacturers buy them in.
ASUS engineers really know what they're doing.
Yeah, ASUS has just earned themselves a huge credit boost for the future. Humongous, I'd say.
You can tell they value more quality than cost.
Shame everyone there is deaf and makes loud fans.
I remember their 5700 xt was also sick
All the pictures of the ASUS cards that I've seen show them using 6 of the cheaper ones....
Considering 2020's other surprises, I'm honestly not surprised by this
fantastic year :(
as soon as the civil war starts, no one will care about graphics cards
@@dr.decker3623 not on my watch, i need a new GPU
@@flycrack7686 priorities
@@metanumia 😂
Every since a recent update, my older sli set-up started the same crashing to desktop.
@JayzTwoCents I notice in the video you keep saying the AIB's didnt follow spec but after reading the Igorslab article he clearly states the the BoM (Bill of Materials) laid out by NVidia said you can use 6 POSCAPS or a combo of POSCAPs and MLCCs so I think this is why its so quiet NVidia should of quite clearly stated the requirement for those MLCCs somewhere in that power delivery cluster .
The scalpers are all sweating 😥 up a storm who bought up all the stock in seconds. It’s good to have waited.
yup laughing my ass off
Lol
Nvidia should do a recall 😆 force them to mail all of them back and forth LMAO *one at a time please
Hahahaha thanks scalpers get all the junkies ones out of the way
This is 2020 that apparently hit NVIDIA.... But it’s hit the scalpers so hard now and it’s a silver lining for us Normies.
When Jay mentioned using his wireless mic near testing equipment and having issues, it reminded me of issue where we had Static Transfer Switch(STS)es that would alert and drop power to devices in server cabinets when we used our radios/walkie-talkies. After finding that out, we had rule no more walkie talkies on Data center floor. We eventually replaced them with Automatic Transfer Switches(ATS) a few years later.
Thanks to all the beta testers who waited in line and got one to test for rest of us. Glad I couldn't get one day one.
Hence why in some countries you sometimes your phones frequencies can mess with shit there
@@L33T_Taco I have a line in microphone connected to my motherboard that exhibits static noise in voice chat applications. It seems to be exacerbated a lot when I add more GPUs to the system. I have 4 1080 Tis in mine and it's causing a huge amount of interference.
i got one for you... i work on a control room enviornment. we have handheld radios that we talk to people in our facility. when we key up a mic to talk and the mic base is close enough to one of the monitors it will turn the monitor off. freakin' weird.
There's a reason heavy munitions dumps have huge no rfi zones around them. Any sorta transmitters are noisey
@@NUCLEARARMAMENT I got the same thing. but mine was more jsut cuz the port didnt secure the plug tightly and it wiggled a lot..so i had to turn the plug in the port till the static stoppeds
My old ATI card died by slowly turning the screen red. I was playing Minecraft below 60 fps and frame froze slowly showing red lines. Game noise could be heard but the frame is frozen.
How do we check if they have the cheap option, on-spec, or above spec before we buy one of these?
When I heard of the 3080's crashing I just assumed people were trying to run a 550-600 watt power supply.
I have a 650 gold and I don't think I'd be comfortable using a 3080 for much on that.
@@NewkLambesis Yeah, don't they recommend a minimum of 750 or 800? I've got a 1000W Plat, so I'm fine.
Jeff B 750 yes
He He He it pays to wait.
@@NewkLambesis check optimum tech's video on that, he's a solid reviewer and sff enthusiast. worked for him no problems