I sincerely dont think humanity will ever reach a point where " I can use this grip because I like it / because it's easier for me " People will always argue about what is right / wrong or what's better / worse
the best advice i ever heard was "i shouldn't be able to hear a grip" so pretty much as long as you can get a good sound out of the insturment and function highly as a musician, do whatever the hell you need to do
If there weren’t practical differences between different grips they wouldn’t exist or be discussed, what grip to use is usually more of a context thing
@@deetgeluid Yes, traditional grip is called American (from the Revolutionary War), matched I believe came from Germany, and matched thumbs up is French. I could be totally wrong, as I was taught this a few decades ago, in America, and maybe the drum world has updated the info. 🤘🥁
Yes, I learned on a military drum in France, you can't play it matched grip. We played the tympani thumbs up, that allows to play with fingers (it's obsolete today, percussionists don't learn that anymore), the keyboards matched but as soon as possible go to four mallets, and play Bach. I played the drums for forty years with the traditional jazz grip before realizing it was absurd. Never taught this stupid grip, only if a student asked me, because it's a pain in the ass if you want to play vibes, marimba, or just have a kit with many percussions on your left. I play the cascara with my left hand on the hi-hat or on a ride, try this with jazz grip...
After many years of playing and studying I teach many of my students open and match because your more balanced behind the kit. I do and practice this every day. 71 years old
It’s from the 80s I believe. I got mine early 90s. It was back to basics and then the second video was the next step. Both both videos were amazing as a young drummer. I learned so much.
Jack DeJohnette changed to matched grip due to his spine curving from unmatched. His Osteopath straightened him out. for your long life health consider this aspect.
Sounds right, any osteopath will assert that you "stabilize" into what you do most, and if what you do most is inefficient and imbalanced, then your overall body system and positioning in space will compensate in unsustainable, dysfunctional ways. Musicians and athletes must take note.
You could play traditional grip without having to lean into your left side and thus creating that abnormal posture. It's just a matter of setting up your kit more optimally. In fact, Dave's setup in this video is almost radically different compared to how he sets up his drums now due to his wanting to accommodate his use of traditional grip.
It's 2023, and drum sets are being set up more ergonomically than ever. Traditional grip seems to be outdated at this point, as the left hand lacks power.
Use whatever grip you like. I don't care for traditional grip snobs, or matched grip snobs (less of those around though). Buddy Rich comes to mind. Essentially, he said matched grip players only know how to do the basic RLRLRLRL drum fill down the toms, and that's the extent of their creativity. lolz
@@irafair3015 Yeah, Buddy Rich dismissed anything that didn't line up with his own tastes. Country music? all garbage, NO good musicians in country music. Matched grip? used by troglodyte rock drummers who have 0 diversity in their chops. Jazz music? - the only "real" form of creative music . . . major talent / terminally critical attitude
Yeah I play traditional for a fife band. Just looks cool. Matched is way better and I would never play anything traditional unless it’s hanging from my neck.
Buddy was the original "say stuff to get people riled up" dude, before it was a thing. All these years later, we now know one's grip it's a comfort thing
@@malinwj1167Nah. That would imply that everything he did in music wasn’t as meaningful. Man wasn’t a grifter just a successful old timer. He was stubborn, but didn’t consider himself god.
Traditional grip comes from a military tradition. Get a marching snare drum, put a strap on it, and hang it around your body. No knee rig or waistline rig. Just hang it in a manner that allows for marching. Try playing it with a matching grip. It won't work. Switch to a military-style grip. Now it works. I couldn't care less how someone holds their sticks. Just…stop playing while I'm trying to talk to the rest of the band. 🙂
We all know that. Why you are still pointing this out like a new argument? We are not imbecile. It would be like me telling you that most drums are made with wood and metal. We are using sticks to play drums. Come on, you are not commenting to children that know nothing about life and drums. What people should say is this: It's easier to play very loud with matched grip and it's a completely different feel to play with traditional grip, easier for ghost notes but harder to play loud and fast single stroke roll. In all my videos, I'm using the traditional grip and I did play matched grip for years. Traditional grip also come with your personnality and identity on drums, it's not only a matter of technique or how to place our kit. Since we are free to place everything like we want on a drumset, it's not like a piano where you have to deal with one position only of the piano.
We all know that. Why you are still pointing this out like a new argument? It would be like me telling you that most drums are made with wood and metal. We are using sticks to play drums. Come on, you are not commenting to children that know nothing about life and drums. What people should say is this: It's easier to play very loud with matched grip and it's a completely different feel to play with traditional grip, easier for ghost notes but harder to play loud and fast single stroke roll. In all my videos, I'm using the traditional grip and I did play matched grip for years. Traditional grip also come with your personnality and identity on drums, it's not only a matter of technique or how to place our kit. Since we are free to place everything like we want on a drumset, it's not like a piano where you have to deal with one position only of the piano.
imagine not realizing that there is actually no point to play traditional on modern equipment that isn't strapped to your waist like an old marching snare.
@@contramachina354 There actually is a specific technical point to playing traditional grip in certain styles. While it makes sense to use match grip in rock, metal, funk, disco, contemporary country, and certain R&B/soul contexts for a more direct attack, in jazz in particular, getting more of your hand under the stick by playing traditional grip allows for more volume control, which is especially important when comping behind different instrumental soloists.
There is no right or wrong grip. He is right. They are both needed and both should be known and used. Same with bass drum. Sometimes you should bury the beater and not let it off the head. Other times you should not do that. It is all technique used for specific reasons whenever the TECHINQUE serves the music best and not the other way around. You would never tell a saxophone to only slur notes nor tell them to always articulate the notes. Both are necessary to serve the music.
I get the emotional part, i play match open handed for metal especially break downs, but will play traditional grip for jazz, it just feels more mellow. Also my left hand match grip is not as good as my traditional
I started match and learned traditional, it did take a while, it is a learned grip very unnatural but it's cool and has its place. My only concern and or complaint is it's what I call a handicap grip, it is sooo beyond unnatural it's actually looks ridiculous at times with your left arm curled up like you have a handicap. Imagine walking around your whole live with your left shoulder 10" lower than your right. 99% of all traditional grip players look at they're left shoulder! Lol I mean they HAVE TO DIP they're shoulder to get leverage, it's very rare you see people playing traditional with good posture. Steve Gadd is a top tier world class phenomenal drummer lol but look at his posture, I mean I couldn't even imagine sitting at the dinner table like that with a fork, again look at his left shoulder. Then ya got that hitting of the crash cymbal on your left lol THAT takes a while...! All good to each their own, even Buddy would come back to match because it was unnatural at the end of songs or playing the two floor toms in a tribal rhythm. Too much to list again I enjoy playing traditional I think everyone should learn it but for the love of humanity keep your shoulders the same height. One last thang, Simon Phillips and Billy Cobham have mastered the drums, and I'll leave you guessing why...??
The problem you pointed out is real and very serious. But it affects only the traditional grip players who don't position their drums at an angle. This should be done with all drums, not just the snare drums. Once you do that, all of a sudden traditional grip is as ergonomic and as natural as it gets, with no difference in shoulder height, hence no discomfort, no injuries, no pain. I've been playing like this for many years. No way back. Done right, traditional grip is the most ergonomic and natural way.
@@max.upbeat Yes your are right that snare angle has to 'fit' traditional grip so the left shoulder doesn't go down 2' lol. I agree. BUT! The problem is many many drummers will not commit to that especially if they're playing rock or where traditional grip is not used all the time. Todd Sucherman is a good example of snare tilted, it's up higher than most people (which is correct/sweet spot) and he can go back n forth on the grips. Traditional was invented because of having a drum in a sling and marching. Why it was carried over and MADE to work on a modern drum set at the time I'm not sure? I say that because if one is playing timpani, timbales or many other percussion instruments where you're standing up, if traditional is so proper lol why is it not proper on the timbales and timpani? You know what I'm trying to say. Peace
The way he sits down in the beginning with his right shoulder really pulled up already tells you he's a traditional grip player - but this is not the best idea, ergonomically speaking.
"Conventional" seems like a presumptuous word to use, assuming that it's the most preferred way across the board, however "Traditional" is a bit less specific as to region, assuming that it's the traditional method in that region where it's being played. Personally, I prefer the term traditional as opposed to conventional unless conventional is truly the preferred method amongst your colleagues and respected artists in the field.
Because it's harder to learn it. I did learn it with time. I was bored, student wasn't showing up and didn't care to practice my bands stuff, so one day I decided to put those hours into the traditional grip. Believe me, listening to Dave Weckl DVD ''Evolution'' to start from zero was really the best experience I had. That feeling of being a beginner once again, until I was comfortable, to one day where I was even more comfortable with the traditional grip compare to the matched grip. I know it sound crazy, but I was that guy that couldn't play traditional. And now, all my videos are with traditional grip... And the only reason to use matched grip again is to play very hard music, which I'm really not into it anymore.
trad grip more naturally sits behind the lead hands note grouping- accents fall correctly without much consideration- match takes some watching your shoulders and posture to get the symmetrical stuff going back and forth evenly, and then with the proper flow of accents
If you need so much time (half of your life) to learn a grip there must be something wrong with it. O, Yeah, it is meant for marching drums where the drum hangs on an angle. Not for drumsets.
i can't remember who, but i saw someone fill in for Black Dahlia Murder on drums like 15 years ago. Played traditional grip, and was blast beating through Deathmask Divine and Horrible Night no problem. My brain wants to say it was Shannon Lucas filling in, but all the pics i see of him online are him playing match grip...
Yeah I play traditional for a fife band. Just looks cool. Matched is way better and I would never play anything traditional unless it’s hanging from my neck.
Thought this was gonna be a memey type of video where it takes a left turn and he just ends up horribly insulting us matched grip players
Me too 😂
fr i got scared
I was hoping
Same here. I thought I was gonna get *Weckl’d.*
@catalystdrums123 Glad your hopes were crushed 😂😂
double traditional grip omega chad
😂
marching band moment
Was going to thumbs up, but respectfully decided to leave the amount at 69. Cheers, lads.
@@6x14ludwig1992 poggers
@@thoughtsforthebuilders
People not getting with the program here. Frick!!!
“How do I reach these keeeeds?!”
I sincerely dont think humanity will ever reach a point where " I can use this grip because I like it / because it's easier for me "
People will always argue about what is right / wrong or what's better / worse
the best advice i ever heard was "i shouldn't be able to hear a grip" so pretty much as long as you can get a good sound out of the insturment and function highly as a musician, do whatever the hell you need to do
spirited discussion is good! even better is the ability to filter out the opinions of others
I think you're wrong
If there weren’t practical differences between different grips they wouldn’t exist or be discussed, what grip to use is usually more of a context thing
@@imdadirtydan Ah, so true [plays bass with a pick, doesn't get 10,000 negative comments]
I believe tradiotional grip comes from a snaredrum hanging around the neck. So it’s more like a marching band thing.
It comes from having a drum hanging off to your left side. That’s why the left hand grip needed to be different. One google search dude.
@@yugdails That’s what I meant. I’m from the Netherlands, and we dont have that tradition overhere.
@@deetgeluid
Yes, traditional grip is called American (from the Revolutionary War), matched I believe came from Germany, and matched thumbs up is French.
I could be totally wrong, as I was taught this a few decades ago, in America, and maybe the drum world has updated the info.
🤘🥁
@@MrRezRising I believe that has more to do with how you position your thumbs. Interesting stuff!
Yes, I learned on a military drum in France, you can't play it matched grip. We played the tympani thumbs up, that allows to play with fingers (it's obsolete today, percussionists don't learn that anymore), the keyboards matched but as soon as possible go to four mallets, and play Bach.
I played the drums for forty years with the traditional jazz grip before realizing it was absurd. Never taught this stupid grip, only if a student asked me, because it's a pain in the ass if you want to play vibes, marimba, or just have a kit with many percussions on your left. I play the cascara with my left hand on the hi-hat or on a ride, try this with jazz grip...
After many years of playing and studying I teach many of my students open and match because your more balanced behind the kit. I do and practice this every day. 71 years old
*switches to match grip*
Me: “oh shit, he’s getting emotional on us. He’s about get reallllll phonnnnkyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!”
I had this on VHS, guitar center drum tech recommended it to me back in like 2002
It’s from the 80s I believe. I got mine early 90s. It was back to basics and then the second video was the next step. Both both videos were amazing as a young drummer. I learned so much.
In a time before the internet, this video was gold!
Still is. Always will 😂😂
It’s so much fun to develop both ❤️
Jack DeJohnette changed to matched grip due to his spine curving from unmatched. His Osteopath straightened him out. for your long life health consider this aspect.
Sounds right, any osteopath will assert that you "stabilize" into what you do most, and if what you do most is inefficient and imbalanced, then your overall body system and positioning in space will compensate in unsustainable, dysfunctional ways. Musicians and athletes must take note.
You could play traditional grip without having to lean into your left side and thus creating that abnormal posture. It's just a matter of setting up your kit more optimally. In fact, Dave's setup in this video is almost radically different compared to how he sets up his drums now due to his wanting to accommodate his use of traditional grip.
It's 2023, and drum sets are being set up more ergonomically than ever. Traditional grip seems to be outdated at this point, as the left hand lacks power.
Or just sit correctly and adjust your snare accordingly
Use whatever grip you like. I don't care for traditional grip snobs, or matched grip snobs (less of those around though). Buddy Rich comes to mind. Essentially, he said matched grip players only know how to do the basic RLRLRLRL drum fill down the toms, and that's the extent of their creativity. lolz
Buddy was just a snob period. Hell of a drummer but he was an ass.
@@irafair3015 he was not only a piece of shit - he held drumming BACK
He could be an ass because he could back up his smack! Unlike most drummers 🥁!
@@irafair3015 Yeah, Buddy Rich dismissed anything that didn't line up with his own tastes. Country music? all garbage, NO good musicians in country music. Matched grip? used by troglodyte rock drummers who have 0 diversity in their chops. Jazz music? - the only "real" form of creative music . . .
major talent / terminally critical attitude
Buddy's opinion is obsolete. Max Roach switched to matched grip in the 80's until his death. Bill Stewart swings with a matched grip too.
I had this video on vhs! Learned a lot from it.
I watched it every day for a solid few months! Really Inspiring stuff
Same here 😎
So, traditional grip won't make me play like Dave? Damn lol
Garibaldi switched from traditional to match. He said there were technical things he could do better with match.
Yeah I play traditional for a fife band. Just looks cool. Matched is way better and I would never play anything traditional unless it’s hanging from my neck.
BUT BUDDY RICH SAID MATCHED GRIP BAD!!!??!!
Buddy Rich can go cry a river for matched players.
Actually, he can't anymore. He's dead.
Buddy was the original "say stuff to get people riled up" dude, before it was a thing. All these years later, we now know one's grip it's a comfort thing
It was a different time. Seen Buddy play matched and it was phenomenal.
@@malinwj1167Nah. That would imply that everything he did in music wasn’t as meaningful. Man wasn’t a grifter just a successful old timer. He was stubborn, but didn’t consider himself god.
If he said matched instead of the vulgar, semiliterate "match" ( e.g., "old-fashion", "ice tea" & "over size load"), then bully for him!
An emotional decision
man i've been trying to find this whole video of back to basics for years now. if you have it, please share. will be awesome!
Traditional grip comes from a military tradition.
Get a marching snare drum, put a strap on it, and hang it around your body. No knee rig or waistline rig. Just hang it in a manner that allows for marching. Try playing it with a matching grip. It won't work. Switch to a military-style grip. Now it works.
I couldn't care less how someone holds their sticks.
Just…stop playing while I'm trying to talk to the rest of the band. 🙂
We all know that. Why you are still pointing this out like a new argument? We are not imbecile. It would be like me telling you that most drums are made with wood and metal. We are using sticks to play drums. Come on, you are not commenting to children that know nothing about life and drums.
What people should say is this: It's easier to play very loud with matched grip and it's a completely different feel to play with traditional grip, easier for ghost notes but harder to play loud and fast single stroke roll.
In all my videos, I'm using the traditional grip and I did play matched grip for years.
Traditional grip also come with your personnality and identity on drums, it's not only a matter of technique or how to place our kit. Since we are free to place everything like we want on a drumset, it's not like a piano where you have to deal with one position only of the piano.
We all know that. Why you are still pointing this out like a new argument? It would be like me telling you that most drums are made with wood and metal. We are using sticks to play drums. Come on, you are not commenting to children that know nothing about life and drums.
What people should say is this: It's easier to play very loud with matched grip and it's a completely different feel to play with traditional grip, easier for ghost notes but harder to play loud and fast single stroke roll.
In all my videos, I'm using the traditional grip and I did play matched grip for years.
Traditional grip also come with your personnality and identity on drums, it's not only a matter of technique or how to place our kit. Since we are free to place everything like we want on a drumset, it's not like a piano where you have to deal with one position only of the piano.
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877 I hope you get your hairline fixed. GFY!
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877 GFY x 2!
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877take a breath and relax.
I never knew Kevin Costner played the drums🤯
Thats not him, thats McGyver
Back to the basics! Oh Dave.
I hadn't even thought about learning both :o
i had flashbacks to that buddy rich video
buddy rich has entered the chat
Some old school Weckl!!
I need the full video
i’m a french grip enjoyer personally. good for doing blastbeats and cymbal chokes
Imagine playing with only one grip and not adapting to the musical context you're playing in.
imagine not realizing that there is actually no point to play traditional on modern equipment that isn't strapped to your waist like an old marching snare.
@@contramachina354there is: it makes you cooler. I’m Not being sarcastic
@@contramachina354 There actually is a specific technical point to playing traditional grip in certain styles. While it makes sense to use match grip in rock, metal, funk, disco, contemporary country, and certain R&B/soul contexts for a more direct attack, in jazz in particular, getting more of your hand under the stick by playing traditional grip allows for more volume control, which is especially important when comping behind different instrumental soloists.
There is no right or wrong grip. He is right. They are both needed and both should be known and used. Same with bass drum. Sometimes you should bury the beater and not let it off the head. Other times you should not do that. It is all technique used for specific reasons whenever the TECHINQUE serves the music best and not the other way around. You would never tell a saxophone to only slur notes nor tell them to always articulate the notes. Both are necessary to serve the music.
I like both
I get the emotional part, i play match open handed for metal especially break downs, but will play traditional grip for jazz, it just feels more mellow. Also my left hand match grip is not as good as my traditional
Thanks Anakin :)
Matched grip, Left hand lead, butt of stick inside hand. Still got gigs and coin.......Work ethic is such a great technique .
I started match and learned traditional, it did take a while, it is a learned grip very unnatural but it's cool and has its place. My only concern and or complaint is it's what I call a handicap grip, it is sooo beyond unnatural it's actually looks ridiculous at times with your left arm curled up like you have a handicap. Imagine walking around your whole live with your left shoulder 10" lower than your right. 99% of all traditional grip players look at they're left shoulder! Lol I mean they HAVE TO DIP they're shoulder to get leverage, it's very rare you see people playing traditional with good posture. Steve Gadd is a top tier world class phenomenal drummer lol but look at his posture, I mean I couldn't even imagine sitting at the dinner table like that with a fork, again look at his left shoulder. Then ya got that hitting of the crash cymbal on your left lol THAT takes a while...! All good to each their own, even Buddy would come back to match because it was unnatural at the end of songs or playing the two floor toms in a tribal rhythm. Too much to list again I enjoy playing traditional I think everyone should learn it but for the love of humanity keep your shoulders the same height. One last thang, Simon Phillips and Billy Cobham have mastered the drums, and I'll leave you guessing why...??
The problem you pointed out is real and very serious. But it affects only the traditional grip players who don't position their drums at an angle. This should be done with all drums, not just the snare drums. Once you do that, all of a sudden traditional grip is as ergonomic and as natural as it gets, with no difference in shoulder height, hence no discomfort, no injuries, no pain. I've been playing like this for many years. No way back. Done right, traditional grip is the most ergonomic and natural way.
@@max.upbeat Yes your are right that snare angle has to 'fit' traditional grip so the left shoulder doesn't go down 2' lol. I agree.
BUT! The problem is many many drummers will not commit to that especially if they're playing rock or where traditional grip is not used all the time. Todd Sucherman is a good example of snare tilted, it's up higher than most people (which is correct/sweet spot) and he can go back n forth on the grips.
Traditional was invented because of having a drum in a sling and marching. Why it was carried over and MADE to work on a modern drum set at the time I'm not sure? I say that because if one is playing timpani, timbales or many other percussion instruments where you're standing up, if traditional is so proper lol why is it not proper on the timbales and timpani? You know what I'm trying to say. Peace
TLDR
@@jd0879 RDLT
@@jd0879 RDLT
the thumbnail and title made this seem like a threat
Young..good-looking.. and one of the best drummers in the world...tons of women😊
they dont go for the drummer dude
weeeeiiiirrrrdoooooooooooooo
Lol!
You've got to learn saxophone, like Lester Young.
Chad 🗿
Nice advice. Let me mullet over
I totally agree
Matched grip means you don't lean sideways and fuck up your back
I always wondered what happened to mallory's boyfriend Nick from family ties
Tell me you're a time traveler from the 80s without telling me you're a time traveler from the 80s.
cuts off when it starts getting good shiitihtihtijsodifsadmflsadkmflsakdmfalsdkfmdsa
I have tried to find this video (back to
Basics) here or in the web, parts of them or
Even a single song or exercise and couldn’t find anything!!!
I own it - should I digitize and get sued by The Weck himself??
The way he sits down in the beginning with his right shoulder really pulled up already tells you he's a traditional grip player - but this is not the best idea, ergonomically speaking.
"Conventional" seems like a presumptuous word to use, assuming that it's the most preferred way across the board, however "Traditional" is a bit less specific as to region, assuming that it's the traditional method in that region where it's being played. Personally, I prefer the term traditional as opposed to conventional unless conventional is truly the preferred method amongst your colleagues and respected artists in the field.
Was this recorded in the 90s?
Old people and their traditional grip thinking
Man, that was the best hair in modern jazz. What happened?? 😩
Grow a mullet or forever be mediocre
how'd you like them apple's 🍎🍎🍎
I can’t play traditional…🤷🏽♂️
Because it's harder to learn it. I did learn it with time. I was bored, student wasn't showing up and didn't care to practice my bands stuff, so one day I decided to put those hours into the traditional grip. Believe me, listening to Dave Weckl DVD ''Evolution'' to start from zero was really the best experience I had. That feeling of being a beginner once again, until I was comfortable, to one day where I was even more comfortable with the traditional grip compare to the matched grip.
I know it sound crazy, but I was that guy that couldn't play traditional.
And now, all my videos are with traditional grip...
And the only reason to use matched grip again is to play very hard music, which I'm really not into it anymore.
Don't worry, you didn't lose anything.
trad grip more naturally sits behind the lead hands note grouping- accents fall correctly without much consideration- match takes some watching your shoulders and posture to get the symmetrical stuff going back and forth evenly, and then with the proper flow of accents
If you need so much time (half of your life) to learn a grip there must be something wrong with it. O, Yeah, it is meant for marching drums where the drum hangs on an angle. Not for drumsets.
Look up traditional versus match grip a truth. This guy doesn't even have an argument. Thus were the 80s/90s.
What is this video?
The 80s hair was so distracting.
i can't remember who, but i saw someone fill in for Black Dahlia Murder on drums like 15 years ago. Played traditional grip, and was blast beating through Deathmask Divine and Horrible Night no problem. My brain wants to say it was Shannon Lucas filling in, but all the pics i see of him online are him playing match grip...
Imagine it was him he just decided to do it for one night on a dare
Who’s the know it all with terrible posture
Game, set, match, grip
When it's Caravan time, every traditionalist reverts to a matched grip.
Yeah I play traditional for a fife band. Just looks cool. Matched is way better and I would never play anything traditional unless it’s hanging from my neck.