so many "questionable" decisions remind me of the story Chris Jericho told in an interview once... (I'm paraphrasing from memory) Jericho: "I just don't think it's the right choice to have a MAN win the first ever WOMEN's Money In The Bank!" Vince: "DAMMIT...It's the right choice BECAUSE he's a man!" and in the same light "Dean turning is the right choice BECAUSE of Roman's announcement!" and Triple H has learned that aswell "Cody losing at Wrestlemania is the right choice BECAUSE everyone and their mothers believe this is the perfect time for him to win!" And the latter was especially right because despite being the least tasteless of the three it still had the most volatile fan reaction
For me the way I see that heel turn personally is that Dean Ambrose (Jon moxley) was frustrated at what was going on with Roman and was also more then likely still struggling with trusting Seth and it all boiled over and he betrayed Seth but that’s just how I see it
Yeah that seems right, and then he felt super insecure so he left the WWE and returned to NJPW, he went to AEW, lived rent free in Kenny Omega's mind for awhile and then carried the company through the worst of the Covid era
@@KGreen-wz5xrNo they weren't. It was just terrible booking. Ambrose's contract wasn't going to be up for a long while and AEW was a big fat nothing at the time, before Ambrose went there. Certainly not something wwe would worry about. After the heel run Ambrose told them we won't re-sign cause he wants to take time off and spend time with family. Months, and months after that, he went to AEW, showed up as a surprise no one knew about. Certainly no one at wwe.
@@Tedi652 I think he had a no compete clause and your right the booking was decent until they turned him heel I liked his solo run that made me a fan he shouldn’t have got beaten by John Cena
@@connerlackey3952Why though? Why was he trying so hard to make it appear "sports entertainment" what's so wrong with saying what it is, pro wrestling. I think he took PG era way too seriously. Yes, we all know it's for entertainment purposes but we don't want even the same company admitting it. It's supposed to be an illusion. Too much break of the fourth wall is never a good thing in any show.
I lost my uncle a few months ago, who was suffering from Lukemia. He didn't tell anybody, he was strong and didn't want anyone to know about. But it was too late and he couldn't make it. He was the reason i got into watching WWE, he was a bigger fan of WWE than I ever will be, even Roman Reigns was his favourite, he told me he was a Roman Reigns fan. Didn't know it had to come this way, he taught me a lot of things. For more than a decade I was Watching WWE because I liked it and loved it but now it reminds me of him. R.I.P...
I remember reading the media and the reason Roman was off of live events, and telling my mom. “Something’s wrong with Roman” Few days later he opened raw and I don’t think I got that emotion in a long time. Thank god he’s ok.
This is why Trips is better. He doesn't act like Vince. He asks the stars if they think it's the right time. Vince only let his top guys interfere in his decision. Hell, even that's not guaranteed. We know what happened to Bret. Trips does that to everyone.
I think the turn itself was perfect, it was done well. It’s everything that happened after I have a problem with, they had a chance to actually push him as an aggressive solid mentally unwell serious heel and turned him into a cookie comedy heel wearing a gas mask and such which was a horrible decision.
They did that to embarrass him and make him look bad because he decided not to sign with WWE for a new contract. Vince wanted to bury him as punishment. Dean/Jon hated the last few weeks he was working for this reason.
To be fair it’s a perfect way to handle it. Makes dean look like a serious heel. Snake in the grass type of thing waiting for the moment to strike. Roman is weak. Seth is shocked. Perfect time to strike
I've always believed that the turn was done in the perfect way, at the perfect time. It's just what came after it was the problem. It's interesting that they were planning to do the turn before the announcement because it always felt like Dean turning on Seth happened because of how frustrated he was about his brother having to deal with his condition and leaving and yet the snake that betrayed him was fine.
Apparently it was initially supposed to happen at Wrestlemania 34 but obviously the only reason it didn't happen was because Dean was injured forcing them to postpone it and do it 6 months later, 2 months after his return believing that was even better timing to be a heel but he should've stayed home longer than he had to like Bayley when she was injured because Dean being a heel for 4 months that led to him winning the IC Title wasn't worth losing him to AEW because of his frustration over creative descions 😢😭😭💀💀💀
2 separate things really. He didn't like it for sure but it was a made decision. The question of if to do it now is the only thing in question in this clip. That turn could have been great, but boy, did they WWE all over it. Well, more like Vinced all over it, but still. I honestly don't like all the excessive bleeding he does in AEW. I get why WWE doesn't like it. It became too much really fast for me.
Mox says he hated the Ambrose character and wanted to do something else. He also has issues with some of the promo they made for him specifically that reference Roman sickness. However, I also remember eventhough Mox wanted to leave, he kinda offended WWE don't offer him more to make him stay.
Vince wanting Mox to do a fuicked up promo about Roman Reigns leukemia is what led to Mox leaving WWE & Mox even said in an interview that the promo Vince wanted him to do would have led to WWE losing a bunch of sponsorships
Absolutely with Rollins and Mox on this. Strike while the iron is hot and get the absolute maximum amount of emotion out of the turn. The people feigning shock and morally grandstanding (Brian Alvarez) were being so transparent with their bullshit that night.
Moxley is a liar. Remember when it was their creative that pushed him out of WWE and that caused him to turn down the millions they were begging him to take? Meanwhile he does all the brilliant and serious things he has done since being in AEW?
@@renafan3333if I'm not mistaken, didn't he say he walked because he was done doing the same consistent storyline? They wanted him to turn heel on Rollins again and he was over that and how they treated his character? I could be wrong though
They could have done that turn the exact same way if they followed up with something great. The turn itself was not a bad decision but the follow up was terrible. Maybe a storyline that keeps continuity that dean still hasn’t forgiven Rollins and that Roman was keeping them together so him leaving allowed for dean to lose control. Then roman returns and convinces dean to come back. Idk tho
Makes me wonder what the plans were if Roman never had leukemia since the turn was already planned. A very interesting what if considering Roman and Dean never turned on each other
For people that don't know Dean Ambrose aka Jon Moxley was fine with turning heel on that night what he wasn't fine with though was the promo Vince wanted him to do the week after. Vince wanted Mox to cut a fucked up promo about Roman Reigns leukemia that would have led to WWE losing a bunch of sponsorships but because Mox loves Reigns like a brother he refused to do it which turn pissed Vince off so much that Vince gave up on Mox's heel turn storyline.
It wasn't good in the end, but at the end of the day you do use the real life stuff to enhance the in-ring stuff, pretty consistently I might add. KO used his mom's situation tonight in Toronto before MITB, and that's not even front and center like Roman's Leukemia was.
Deadass a great moment ruined by what happened after and the reason for it. Could've legit had Dean still been hurt over the first betrayal and with what happened to Roman been like a hit to his mental and believe Seth might do something to him so he got to him first. Probably a bad reason still but anything is better than "you're all filthy"
The turn was great. The timing was just perfect. The reasonings behind it on the other hand, plus the executions week after week was straight up trash.
the heel turn execution was perfect, but they wwe handled it was dmb as fck. Jon says that the heel turn was like his only reason to stay in the biz, if it turns out great then he'll stay and sign another contract, but wwe decided to make it the dmbst sh8 ever.
I feel like the announcement should have come at the END of the night. Doing it beforehand put a REALLY sour note on the whole thing and made it seem completely in poor taste from both an IRL and gimmick standpoint.
All Ambrose Heel Turn Needed was Good creative under Paul levequse or even Tony Khan it Would've booked it well This was the Worst possible ear in the history of WWE
Tbh it was perfect how they did it but the heel run itself could’ve been so much better. The first few weeks when he was burning his shield colours and being just badass really was the only good parts and then they had him wearing a mask and everything. It was stupid
And the story was beautiful because of it. The one night Roman needed his friends to be okay... Dean couldn't be. And it really felt like Roman being sick is what broke him.
why? he fucking loves what he's doing in AEW, he wouldn't be allowed to most of that in WWE, and I'm sure his contract payout is twice as much from Tony. Personally I can't stand the guy, but can't imagine he 2nd guesses where he is.
Lmao, and i remember how people blaming vince for dean ambrose heel turn, when it was seth's and his decision to do the heel turn together. No one force them into doing it. The upcoming segments afterward were different story tho
@Natepfleming_dagoat neber been a fan of roman reigns. Amd the fact they keep shoving him down our throats. I'll pass. And the fact the only reason he held the belt so long was because they wanted a rock vs roman match 2 years ago at wm.. he only jad 6 defenses last year.
See hhh actualy knows the job. Vince would been to Dean Hay your going heal tonight here a script. . Least hhh has honor to alow his talent the choice to do it
To me, it starts to get very precarious when they mix kayfabe and reality. When Andy Kaufman died, he did so without a lot of support, because people just thought he was pulling one on them again. So when Joe announces that he's had leukemia, the first thing that many fans do is to step back, pause and keep him in their thoughts and prayers. So to take that real sympathy for Joe and turn it into an angle comes across as distasteful. I'm thinking about this guy FOR REAL and you guys are just trying to push forward to make a buck. I don't want to be entertained by a guy's cancer.
Professionals being professionals despite how awful it was. Respect
so many "questionable" decisions remind me of the story Chris Jericho told in an interview once...
(I'm paraphrasing from memory)
Jericho: "I just don't think it's the right choice to have a MAN win the first ever WOMEN's Money In The Bank!"
Vince: "DAMMIT...It's the right choice BECAUSE he's a man!"
and in the same light
"Dean turning is the right choice BECAUSE of Roman's announcement!"
and Triple H has learned that aswell
"Cody losing at Wrestlemania is the right choice BECAUSE everyone and their mothers believe this is the perfect time for him to win!"
And the latter was especially right because despite being the least tasteless of the three it still had the most volatile fan reaction
@@AgeofJP yuuuuuuuuup
@@AgeofJPspot on, it's pro wrestling
Took the words out of my mouth
respect to lies about a real illness awful should be ashamed of himself
It was Perfect.That way Reigns and Ambrose never betrayed each other
True brothers ❤️🩹
Seth is a snake, he had it coming
@@FazeRustyNutsoutside of wrestling all three members from the shield are still friends despite jon moxley on aew
@@deborahjones7409 they aren't friends Roman said he will never forgive Seth so why would he hang out with him outside of wrestling?
@@deborahjones7409leave it alone. If you could go back to before you knew, it’s the most enjoyable time. Let them be.
Dean Ambrose's heel turn is the most expected turn in the unexpected time.
I still remember Michael Cole making the best call. "Not on THIS night."
Even Dean had doubts after he turned. You can see Seth urging him to continue with the spot.
For me the way I see that heel turn personally is that Dean Ambrose (Jon moxley) was frustrated at what was going on with Roman and was also more then likely still struggling with trusting Seth and it all boiled over and he betrayed Seth but that’s just how I see it
Yeah that seems right, and then he felt super insecure so he left the WWE and returned to NJPW, he went to AEW, lived rent free in Kenny Omega's mind for awhile and then carried the company through the worst of the Covid era
That’s how it was that’s why I don’t get what they where doing in the weeks after the turn maybe wwe was trying to bury him before he went to AEW
@@KGreen-wz5xr probably
@@KGreen-wz5xrNo they weren't. It was just terrible booking. Ambrose's contract wasn't going to be up for a long while and AEW was a big fat nothing at the time, before Ambrose went there. Certainly not something wwe would worry about. After the heel run Ambrose told them we won't re-sign cause he wants to take time off and spend time with family. Months, and months after that, he went to AEW, showed up as a surprise no one knew about. Certainly no one at wwe.
@@Tedi652 I think he had a no compete clause and your right the booking was decent until they turned him heel I liked his solo run that made me a fan he shouldn’t have got beaten by John Cena
It made his turn feel like an even bigger stab in the back which is perfect
Yes it was a perfect turn in till he f***** it all lol 😆 😆
@@Michael-hj2ivhe didn’t fuck it up🤣 Vince gave him a new “gimmick” and turned his bad ass character into a weird ass germaphobe 😭
I forgot to add vince's name into that saying to.vince f it up
It’s the only heel turn that literally generated real heat and was worked perfectly to perfection
Seth said a Vince McMahon no no word.
💀💀💀
What word?
@@aaqibsalim1568 wrestling. It's a very big Vince no no word.
I was just saying hey now it's not pro wrestling it's pro sports entertainment 🤣🤣
@@connerlackey3952Why though? Why was he trying so hard to make it appear "sports entertainment" what's so wrong with saying what it is, pro wrestling. I think he took PG era way too seriously. Yes, we all know it's for entertainment purposes but we don't want even the same company admitting it. It's supposed to be an illusion. Too much break of the fourth wall is never a good thing in any show.
Very informative
“The show must go on” 👏
That dirty deeds was CRAAAAZY😂
I lost my uncle a few months ago, who was suffering from Lukemia. He didn't tell anybody, he was strong and didn't want anyone to know about. But it was too late and he couldn't make it.
He was the reason i got into watching WWE, he was a bigger fan of WWE than I ever will be, even Roman Reigns was his favourite, he told me he was a Roman Reigns fan. Didn't know it had to come this way, he taught me a lot of things. For more than a decade I was Watching WWE because I liked it and loved it but now it reminds me of him. R.I.P...
"Roman came out as Joe" his pronouns are joe/joes
😂😂😂
I see, so he was a Joestar all along.
Those peanut butter Joe Joe's are the Tribal Chief of all cookies
And then he took over *ZA WARUDO...*
😂😂
Turn was great, the problem was that they turned him into Bane afterwards 😂
Naa dean's heel turn was very predictable unlike the Rollins one
Man we all said it WWE you had the perfect setup and dropped the ball on that feud
I remember reading the media and the reason Roman was off of live events, and telling my mom. “Something’s wrong with Roman”
Few days later he opened raw and I don’t think I got that emotion in a long time. Thank god he’s ok.
It pisses me off that people think it was a work.
This is why Trips is better. He doesn't act like Vince. He asks the stars if they think it's the right time. Vince only let his top guys interfere in his decision. Hell, even that's not guaranteed. We know what happened to Bret. Trips does that to everyone.
I love looking at the people in the front row when I see clips of big turns lol they are always so animated
I think the turn itself was perfect, it was done well. It’s everything that happened after I have a problem with, they had a chance to actually push him as an aggressive solid mentally unwell serious heel and turned him into a cookie comedy heel wearing a gas mask and such which was a horrible decision.
They did that to embarrass him and make him look bad because he decided not to sign with WWE for a new contract. Vince wanted to bury him as punishment. Dean/Jon hated the last few weeks he was working for this reason.
Dean's heel turn was the wrost heel turn in history
To be fair it’s a perfect way to handle it. Makes dean look like a serious heel. Snake in the grass type of thing waiting for the moment to strike. Roman is weak. Seth is shocked. Perfect time to strike
You can hear the slight emotion in Seths voice
Shoutout to seth for not jus lying n throwing ambrose under bus
I think it was good too. In my mind atleast I liked to assume that Ambrose turned because of the emotional anguish after Roman's announcement.
It’s not how I would’ve liked it but it makes perfect sense it made people hate ambroses character more which was great for that story line
I've always believed that the turn was done in the perfect way, at the perfect time. It's just what came after it was the problem. It's interesting that they were planning to do the turn before the announcement because it always felt like Dean turning on Seth happened because of how frustrated he was about his brother having to deal with his condition and leaving and yet the snake that betrayed him was fine.
Apparently it was initially supposed to happen at Wrestlemania 34 but obviously the only reason it didn't happen was because Dean was injured forcing them to postpone it and do it 6 months later, 2 months after his return believing that was even better timing to be a heel but he should've stayed home longer than he had to like Bayley when she was injured because Dean being a heel for 4 months that led to him winning the IC Title wasn't worth losing him to AEW because of his frustration over creative descions 😢😭😭💀💀💀
Man, Dean’s heel run could have been epic. Butchered to all hell
The turn itself was * chef's kiss * perfect. The aftermath was fucking awful.
What a voice Seth 👏
Interesting that isn't what Moxley said in a interview about that he hated that idea that is pretty much why he left for AEW
2 separate things really. He didn't like it for sure but it was a made decision. The question of if to do it now is the only thing in question in this clip. That turn could have been great, but boy, did they WWE all over it. Well, more like Vinced all over it, but still. I honestly don't like all the excessive bleeding he does in AEW. I get why WWE doesn't like it. It became too much really fast for me.
Mox says he hated the Ambrose character and wanted to do something else. He also has issues with some of the promo they made for him specifically that reference Roman sickness.
However, I also remember eventhough Mox wanted to leave, he kinda offended WWE don't offer him more to make him stay.
Vince wanting Mox to do a fuicked up promo about Roman Reigns leukemia is what led to Mox leaving WWE & Mox even said in an interview that the promo Vince wanted him to do would have led to WWE losing a bunch of sponsorships
Truly one of Michael Cole’s best calls
Good on Trips for being open to doing it the next week, if Dean and Seth both felt it was too real to do
Absolutely with Rollins and Mox on this. Strike while the iron is hot and get the absolute maximum amount of emotion out of the turn. The people feigning shock and morally grandstanding (Brian Alvarez) were being so transparent with their bullshit that night.
I just got to this part in my catch-up and man, waiting 9 months to finally get the proper shield reunion just for it to play out like this was rough
Didn’t Jon Moxly say that they forced him to turn heel on the same night as Romans leukemia announcement?
No he said they forced him to use Roman's leukemia for heat
Moxley is a liar. Remember when it was their creative that pushed him out of WWE and that caused him to turn down the millions they were begging him to take? Meanwhile he does all the brilliant and serious things he has done since being in AEW?
He never said that. He wasn't forced to turn heel that night but he was forced to use Roman's leukemia in a promo.
@@renafan3333if I'm not mistaken, didn't he say he walked because he was done doing the same consistent storyline? They wanted him to turn heel on Rollins again and he was over that and how they treated his character? I could be wrong though
Me when I make up false information for Internet clicks
It kind of added to it all. But it also fanned the mild flames of "Roman is faking". Thankfully that lot went nowhere
Yep. Show must go on.
They could have done that turn the exact same way if they followed up with something great. The turn itself was not a bad decision but the follow up was terrible. Maybe a storyline that keeps continuity that dean still hasn’t forgiven Rollins and that Roman was keeping them together so him leaving allowed for dean to lose control. Then roman returns and convinces dean to come back. Idk tho
Man I remember watching that riding the bus to work the next morning being heartbroken lol
It was the right call that night and made for a great and impactful moment. Damn shame what followed it though.
I wish triple H took over creative sooner because he would’ve made his heel turn on rollins make sense. Not just out of nowhere
Class act. I do think however that waiting a week would have made it bigger
Makes me wonder what the plans were if Roman never had leukemia since the turn was already planned. A very interesting what if considering Roman and Dean never turned on each other
For people that don't know Dean Ambrose aka Jon Moxley was fine with turning heel on that night what he wasn't fine with though was the promo Vince wanted him to do the week after. Vince wanted Mox to cut a fucked up promo about Roman Reigns leukemia that would have led to WWE losing a bunch of sponsorships but because Mox loves Reigns like a brother he refused to do it which turn pissed Vince off so much that Vince gave up on Mox's heel turn storyline.
It wasn't good in the end, but at the end of the day you do use the real life stuff to enhance the in-ring stuff, pretty consistently I might add. KO used his mom's situation tonight in Toronto before MITB, and that's not even front and center like Roman's Leukemia was.
Give HHH some credit for putting the creative in the wrestlers hands .
That's a great idea
Ambrosia needs to come back
Deadass a great moment ruined by what happened after and the reason for it. Could've legit had Dean still been hurt over the first betrayal and with what happened to Roman been like a hit to his mental and believe Seth might do something to him so he got to him first. Probably a bad reason still but anything is better than "you're all filthy"
They did the betrayal the same night because, Roman was never sick in the first place!
Dude, just shut up. This conspiracy theory is stupid. Do you actually think that Roman would fake a cancer diagnosis?
Probably my favourite heel turn 😅
If they did the turn like Dean was just angry and not sure how to deal with his emotions it would of been better then getting imaginary shots lol
The turn was great. The timing was just perfect. The reasonings behind it on the other hand, plus the executions week after week was straight up trash.
When did Johnny Barstow started interviewing wrestlers
What is Johnny Bairstow doing here🙄
The perfect turn
The run that follow did not live to it sadly
the heel turn execution was perfect, but they wwe handled it was dmb as fck. Jon says that the heel turn was like his only reason to stay in the biz, if it turns out great then he'll stay and sign another contract, but wwe decided to make it the dmbst sh8 ever.
It was perfect.
And then the wwe writers back then ruined it. Ruined it so bad Dean left.
Vince fucked up Mox's heel turn because he got angry at Mox for not wanting to cut a fucked up promo about Roman Reigns leukemia.
Rewatch the clip and you can see that Dean didn’t watch to turn heel that night.
Well it didn't work out all that well. They didn't know how to book him as a heel
The heel turn was great. But the booking after that was awful. It led to Jon leaving the company.
I feel like the announcement should have come at the END of the night. Doing it beforehand put a REALLY sour note on the whole thing and made it seem completely in poor taste from both an IRL and gimmick standpoint.
HE his the best
Literally everyone online knew a week in advance
that was the moment ppl like roman
It was the perfect time,
She is from the daily wire she acted to that company's standard, girl you need to educate yourself on these things .
Wait... but didn't Moxley say that he was FORCED to do that?
And to think that if they just decided not to do it that night, then jon would probably still be in wwe.
And that ladies and gentlemen was the exact moment ambrose (mox) career in wwe went downhill and led to his inevitable exit.
All Ambrose Heel Turn Needed was Good creative under Paul levequse or even Tony Khan it Would've booked it well This was the Worst possible ear in the history of WWE
That's why people thought Roman having cancer was fake. They thought it was part of it all
I thought and still think it was faked to get Roman over. He was gone for like a month.
@@kajenbophe was gone for like 3-4 months.
Thanks to Mr Vince Ambrose left the WWE.
Tbh it was perfect how they did it but the heel run itself could’ve been so much better. The first few weeks when he was burning his shield colours and being just badass really was the only good parts and then they had him wearing a mask and everything. It was stupid
Dude really kicked air😅
But Dean said he didn’t think that was tasteful
Dean was pissed
And the story was beautiful because of it. The one night Roman needed his friends to be okay... Dean couldn't be. And it really felt like Roman being sick is what broke him.
Ambrose and me**** grammatically incorrect.
Man, I bet Moxley wishes he could go back to those days (considering where he is these days). 😂🤦♂️
why? he fucking loves what he's doing in AEW, he wouldn't be allowed to most of that in WWE, and I'm sure his contract payout is twice as much from Tony. Personally I can't stand the guy, but can't imagine he 2nd guesses where he is.
And then they proceeded to botch the storyline which led to Dean quiting and joining AEW
They censor Ambrose name? What was that? Lol
They should have waited one more week the turn would have meant more
no same night is more memorable, everyone now remembers dean turned the same night
Seth Rollins calls Punk a cancer, but uses actual cancer for a storyline
The turn itself was beautiful. The follow up is what sucked.
They thought correctly.
And then Vince fucked it up. And that's why Jon left
Lmao, and i remember how people blaming vince for dean ambrose heel turn, when it was seth's and his decision to do the heel turn together. No one force them into doing it. The upcoming segments afterward were different story tho
The person who will beat roman for the belt will be luke hemia
That’s just disrespectful 💀
@Natepfleming_dagoat neber been a fan of roman reigns. Amd the fact they keep shoving him down our throats. I'll pass. And the fact the only reason he held the belt so long was because they wanted a rock vs roman match 2 years ago at wm.. he only jad 6 defenses last year.
What was Jonny bairstow doing there
Deans heel character was so laughable lol
Good turn but booking after was horrendus. Instead of his natutal heel character they made him someone scared to get diseases from fans
If roman even had cancer
Just because people hate him doesn’t mean when he has cancer it’s fake 🤦🏻♂️
Plus it did make dean look like an even bigger prick
Did Seth like Ambrose?
What does he mean by turn
Interestingly enough Reigns recorded his Hobbs n Shaw bits on his time off.. hope he's well though.
See hhh actualy knows the job. Vince would been to Dean Hay your going heal tonight here a script. . Least hhh has honor to alow his talent the choice to do it
The _turn_ was great. The _follow-up_ was abysmal.
To me, it starts to get very precarious when they mix kayfabe and reality. When Andy Kaufman died, he did so without a lot of support, because people just thought he was pulling one on them again.
So when Joe announces that he's had leukemia, the first thing that many fans do is to step back, pause and keep him in their thoughts and prayers. So to take that real sympathy for Joe and turn it into an angle comes across as distasteful. I'm thinking about this guy FOR REAL and you guys are just trying to push forward to make a buck. I don't want to be entertained by a guy's cancer.
❤❤