LXmini Linkwitz Lab Speaker Kit Review
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Written review/data can be found here:
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www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/De...
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All of my tests are conducted using KLIPPEL Hardware and Software. KLIPPEL is an innovative leader in providing unique test equipment for electro-acoustical transducers and audio systems. Founded in 1997 by Dr. Wolfgang Klippel, the novel techniques developed for control and measurement systems of loudspeakers and other transducers are the result of over 30 years of fundamental research. This provides more accurate physical models of loudspeakers, micro-speakers and headphones valid for both small and large amplitudes. The focus is on revealing the root causes of signal distortion and defects and giving practical indications for improvements in design and manufacturing of audio products. For information on KLIPPEL products, please visit their site below:
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Note: The “Paid Promotion” is that Madisound sent me the kit and said I can keep it. Per RUclips rules, this counts as a “sponsorship”. Even if I give them away after the review. Just letting you know I wasn’t actually “paid” for this review by anyone and that it still actually cost me about $150 and two days’ worth of building and testing.
Love how transparent you are, your content is incredible. Thanks for all you do.
@@minuteskill first off, thank you for the kind words.
I do have a series of videos you can watch that explain the measurements. Starting with this one:
What Is Frequency Response? || Understanding the Measurements Part 1
ruclips.net/video/dltza-EGtCg/видео.html
I'm dumb as a sack of bricks. I didn't understand most of this video (still enjoyed it). I built my LXminis during a depressive episode, living in my parent's basement. I have them set up in my tiny studio apartment where I have to shut off my noisy old fridge when I listen to music. I'm powering them off an Emotiva BasX A4 with no preamp (working on that).
My LXminis bring me boundless joy, day in and day out. Often when listening I don't realize it's 3am until I've checked the clock.
Siegfried Linkwitz was the man, so much interesting stuff on his website!
Finally some reviews of the old legends
Oh Buddy. I've always wanted to see an Erin-Style review of this loudspeaker. Thanks for bringing us the goods as usual.
Interesting, and impressive, that you mention how gracious he was in responding to your emails. It accords with my own experience and I often wondered if it was just a fluke. He certainly was a most considerate and gracious man. A decade ago I was active on an audio forum but by no means prolific or known. I addressed a quick question to him since he offered his email address on his website. I had close to no expectation of actually getting a response but imagine my delight when he quickly and carefully responded. Wow. The man himself behind the eponymous crossover design. I was a little starstruck. Cool guy.
I really appreciate the way you do your testing and reviews. The combination audio nut, science geek and a positive attitude really makes for good videos and presentation of information.
Cool project, thanks Erin. Kudos to Madisound too for helping out.
People seem to really enjoy this build project and the pros and cons of this speaker build. Thanks for the review and analysis.
I must say that I have been able to open up to the depth of the information that you are providing is informative and educational to the general public I respect you and your energy you put into everything you are providing us with on the platform. Thank you for your time and help.
Thanks for the review. Makes me feel a bit better about the EQ I added to mine to knock down some of the harshness. Definitely agree with the need for subs and that these are much better at lower volume levels although it is cool to see the data to back up the conventional wisdom. Overall the spacious soundstage with decent imaging is what makes me keep these around.
I had the chance to visit Mr. Linkwitz at his home in Corte Madeira, Ca. when I lived in Marin County, Ca about 10 years ago. We talked on the phone, he said bring over some CD's of my favorite music and we would listen to his mostly open baffle designs, although we did listen to a simplified version of this speaker system you're reviewing now. He and his wife were very friendly and gracious hosts. It was a magical afternoon. RIP Siegfried.
I built a pair of LXmini +2s a few years ago that I completely love for all types of music after meeting Siegfried Linkwitz at burning amp in San Francisco just before he passed.
You should get Madisound to send you more of their kits if possible. Lots of interesting stuff on there.
Great review. It is really cool to see these speakers get the kind of in-depth consideration that they deserve. I built these about 4 years ago for a small listening room in my house. They have stayed in that room ever since. I've tried to replace them with a number of things but nothing quite matches them. They truly disappear in the room. I didn't mention this but the room that I have them in is not the greatest either. There's one partially open wall and a lot of windows. These speakers handle this very well. There are a number of suggested subwoofer options to match up with these. Also, if you join the online community for owners at oplug, he will find some variations in the crossover. Users there have been tinkering with it for the last year. Good luck in your journey. I'm glad that you enjoy these.
Yep the Madisound people are great, I live about 15 minutes away from them... If I need something I just drive over, always in a good mood and helpful.
Yeah they were downtown Madison just off State Street in the early eighties so I dropped in alot (I seem to remember they sold used records) they were good and helpful and an interesting place to visit. I had used my speakers at a house party at the top of Ogg Hall and need new mids for my Infiniti 12" three ways. I ended up with a pair of Vifa 3" domes that they gave a nice discount on so I stepped up a bit and bought them. I left a happy camper and was pleased with the results. Yeah those Infiniti already had some JVC dome tweeters that I replaced the cones with. Anyway had those along time and never forgot the owner of Madisound either. Pretty cool place. Just a foot note ...that pile of audio equipment that was at the back of Budget Bicycle about a decade ago that was all my stuff. The turntable, tapes,records etc... back in by the car racks and pinball machines. It was loud,detailed and an amazing sound stage.
Classy and respectfully done Erin. I've waited a long time for this. Thanks
Owning a pair of Carver Amazing dipoles, I've always been intrigued by the LXminis. Thanks for taking the time, energy, and splinters :D to provide this review!
known about this speaker for a long time, nice to see it getting some review time and measurements :)
Great review.
Always appreciate your honesty.
In the LXmini members section of OPLUG in the 4th order conversion thread Tom Christiansen has some in room measurements which show the same distortion peak at 1-2K so seems like that is an inherent issue in the design.
Good to know. I spent hours trying to make sure it wasn’t my setup. Wish I had seen that before. 😂
Let me preface this by saying that I absolutely loved meeting Mr. Linkwitz and his wife at one of the audio festivals a few years ago. What a brilliant yet humble and down-to-earth couple! That being said, when I listened to both the LXmini and the LX521, I found that there were other rooms with less expensive and less complicated designs that sounded better to me. While the electrostats and mag-planars were overall to my liking, my best experience came from point source box designs. One design that knocked my socks off, yet I almost never see it mentioned, was the HSU CCB-8. I almost feel like a point source speaker, combined with sub, is what lovers of open baffle and infinite transmission line are really looking for, they just don't know it yet!
Thanks for the hsu tip. Ofcource I'm always looking for that next hot item in loudspeakers. I read a review & wow. I've always thought Linkwitz's speakers were lacking concidering the end users sizable investment in time & money.
Excellent review!!!! Linkwitz designs are quite intriguing.
Thank you so much for this video. It´s really very nice to have emotional impressions on the go and be able to correlate them with serious mesurements. Having different points of view is the way to go. Since this design is different from the mayority available, it helps a lot to be able to understand the causes and then hear what´s going on. Regards!
Your impressions are the same as mine. I have the LXSirius+2 in a small bedroom while a 521.4 in the living room. The presentation is the best part about the speaker. Even in a small room, it definitely needed the .2 subs. Also, like my experience with other wideband speakers, there's just something about tweeters that give it the extra sparkle and realism. The 521.4 makes up for a lot of the deficiencies, but the Sirius (Mini) + the .2 sub is something quite nice in a small room. To get a big soundstage in a small room is very cool to have.
Best review on LXmini out there!
Erin, you continue to bring really interesting content, so refreshing from all the "me too" out here. Awesome!
One day I will get a pair of open baffle type speakers, thank for the review!
I've experimented with open baffle DIY designs and I can say when you have something like miniDSP (in my case it's Hypex FusionAmp - very handy to have amp, DAC and DSP in one package) you can quite easily get astonishing results. Open baffle designs tend to be quite large, it's not like a typical compact tower or standmount from KEF or Dali etc but that openness and "naturalness" of sound even when frequency response isn't super linear is hard to beat.
This speaker in its various version has always interested me so its pretty cool to see it reviewed by your objective and subjective approach. Personally I thought it did well, or at least thought it would have had more issues.
Also cool to see Madisound supporting you. If they feel like dishing out more stuff it would be cool to see some SB Acoustics kits reviewed or a Mark Audio for some more full range fun.
Agreed on the "it did well" part. I expected it to be worse. If you ignore the severe cone resonances above 10kHz the performance is within ±3dB. And with additional EQ you can get that to within ±1.5dB pretty easily.
And, yes, Madisound rocks!
@@ErinsAudioCorner I have seen others use a no-rez or non-rez putty mattarial on the basket legs to tame resonance problems or to deflect the reflections from the basket. In your opionon, would something like that possibly improve this full range driver and make for a better performer? I have been attempting to save enough to buy this kit for a few years but something always seems to come up that takes my cookie jar money away. Maybe one day...
@@sjhorton1184 The resonances above 10 kHz are cone breakup. They are not mechanical or cavity resonances. i tried all these solutions before and they had no effect. They can be controlled somewhat by adding 3 felt dampers to the back of the cone near the surround joint or by lightly coating the cones with an non hardening damping. However you can not make these go away completely.
Great job, Erin.
Great review, very educational, sure wouldn't mind these in my system
Thanks for watching!
Oh my god this is unexpected, thank you!
Hey man, just wanted to say that I like your shirt. I just bought the box set of Duran Duran and have not listened to them since I was about 13. I was amazed at how good the remastered cd set sounded and how good they actually are as a band. Also, great review. Looks very similar to the same design Oscar Heil made except he used the Heil Air Motion Transfer driver instead of a cone driver.
Great job. I don't envy anyone trying to convey what is measured to what they hear, but you do a good job in explanations. All I can say is, what 'I thought' I wanted in a speaker, such as really wide dispersion, didn't play out well in actual listening tests in my room. I also found too narrow doesn't sound great either. So I like seeing measurements you show to help determine if something will work well or not. What distance do you sit and how far apart are speakers when you listen to them?
Very cool! I was hoping you would compare these to the Dutch & Dutch 8c, which also use a broader radiation pattern.
Thanks so much for doing this review, I’ve wanted to see these measurements for a long time.
is it possible that you share the DSP Cofig File ? very nice review !
Great review. I still want to build one.
Can’t you change the crossover frequency/slope that will change the directivity index?
I’ve build active 3 way crossover speakers and I can alter the crossover from all 3. Was always curious how it would change the directivity of it.
The tweeter is wave guided and ran down to 1500. I have one setting for the mid and woofer to act as a 2.5 way. Cascading crossovers with the mid(5.25”) running down to the same cut as the woofer at 80hz(6.5”).
Then I have my normal 3 way 80-300,300-1500,1500up
Nice review Erin! Do you think the waviness in the treble response is due to diffraction from the way the driver is mounted?
I've been running a pair of the Linkwitz Orions, loudspeakers since 2006. Started out as version 3.1, later updated to version 3.3. I wanted the experience of building the LXmini and put together a pair for a buddy a couple years ago. I didn't find the project to be as easy as you did. My friend mostly listens to classical chamber music, so this is a very good loudspeaker for him.
I think you owe to yourself to get a chance to experience the Linkwitz LX521. I'll just leave it at that.
Hope you get to a Spatial,GR Research NX , Pure Audio Project or one of the Lii Song kit speakers i.e an open baffle design
Cool looking design
Hi Erin
It’s such a pleasure to see the review of lxmini from you. Finally.
I own the speaker and totally 💯 % agree with your points. This makes me know my gut and judgement as a newcomer in diy audio hobby.
Lxmini was the first kit I bought along with Hypex nCore and miniDSP 2x4hd since I didn’t know how to make a speaker don’t know how to make a crossover etc and fell in love with SL (Siegfried Linkwitz) work and videos.
For me it’s a superb speaker for small medium room but I am a bass and pressure fan. For that I need a u frame sub that SL recommends a u frame or a w frame. If w frame then I might as well get a lx521.4. Cause 4 nos seas 10” on mini is not practical for my thinking
I would request you to not give away your lxmini and keep it for life and give more justice and advancement with your expertise. SL mentions that every speaker manufacture should have his speakers as a reference.
You could continue the lxmini world as extra bass to suffice your needs. Suggest options. Also let me tell you I have a basement diy pad and it’s horrendous in terms of echo and lxmini played perfect in that room. You don’t need room acoustic treatment it will play well in any room.
Only the bass part Erin give solutions.
Also can you share your modified miniDSP file cause I don’t know how to do such myself.
Keep up the good work. This is your first video on the omnidirectional speaker. I again request don’t give away and build on a bass solution that you like. I really wish SL was alive and if he would had a Purifi woofer he would have been so thrilled to use in his speakers
Maybe you can experiment with Purifi drivers in am omni fashion
Double thumbs up for the review
Friends lxmini is a superb 2 way speaker if someone is not listing loud and you will love it.
Great review! The info is well appreciated and I'm sure Mr. Linkwitz would loved to have seen the results!
Hey where's the vertical radiation globe plot?
If you still have them setup, try listening closer (even much closer) than an equilateral triangle; it's amazing how the soundstage holds up, and can even sound clearer, when close. (Theres a whole part on his website about radiation pattern vs RT60 vs listening distance)
I've personally found the 15k bump to do no good. I personally also like the 10k peak to be centered at 9k, can't tell you why it sounds better to me; nothing in the data suggests it.
What did you do to put a finish on the PVC pipes? Did you do anything to the 4" to 6" pipe coupler?
I was really excited for this build, and i’m so happy you reviewed it.
The directivity is very impressive (ERDI) but dear lord this thing is beaming as bad as the Tom Danley’s synergy horn.
With it being so narrow it’s crazy it produces such a big stereo image.
Great video!
I love these kinds of DIY project reviews, because everyone wants to claim that DIY is better for less and it's always nice to know to what degree that is true. If you do happen to take on any powered monitor DIY projects, I'd love to see a comparison against the rather excellent baseline that is the Yamaha HS-8. They're such nice studio monitors for the price, so it'd be neat to see if there's any possible way to exceed them in a DIY project, DSP active crossovers or otherwise. It'd be neat to see something with the Silver Flutes, since they give you the best full-range bass extension for a reasonable budget, maybe with something from the XT25 ring radiator tweeter family to keep the intense linearity associated with monitors, assuming you can find anything that matches the impedance of the woofers well enough.
Hello Erin,
Thank you very much for the shown measurements and for bringing Siegfried Linkwitz´ design to people’s attention.
The whole concept is indeed very different to conventional “box” speakers and the design goals -with respect to polar radiation pattern etc. are quite different. The usual textbook formulae (Floyd Toole etc.) is something that Linkwitz did not always fully agree with. His findings are well documented on the Linkwitzlab website, many AES papers and videos can be found there.
The design result of LXmini is an unrivaled presentation of sound stage and phantom imaging, as you already experienced.
Nevertheless, let me please add some remarks:
Your measurement shows a pronounced, ca 4dB increase in frequency response on axis between 2.5kHz and 4kHz. This is certainly audible and must sound unnatural. I wonder what is going on. Siegfried Linkwitz original outdoor gated measurement (graph is shown on the website under Linkwitzlab /LXmini/Design) did not show this “bump” in frequency response. More than 100 auditions we did were free of any comments about an unnatural sound or a boost in the 2,5-4kHz region.
Siegfried Linkwitz “The resulting acoustic frequency response on the full-range driver axis is designed to be flat +/-1.5 dB from 100 Hz to 20 kHz under free-field conditions. It is 3 dB down at 45 Hz and rolls off at 15 dB/oct rate below that.”
Maybe you are not listening to the original LXmini as per design, but to a deviation of it? Where does this difference originate from? Does it come from the electronic side or from the acoustic/speaker side? You may easily check if the electronic side (a corrupt filter setup in the MiniDSP unit). The filter curves of the MiniDSP may be visualized with a (free) app like REW or ARTA and then compared to the original Linkwitz design curves, that you find on pg.23 of the LXmini construction plans and on Linkwitzlab/LXmini/ASP.
I think it is worth sorting out that issue, as it can be the start of a very joyful and satisfying experience with LXmini (or even LXmini+2/LXstudio for increased bass punch).
Upgrading to analog signal processing (Nelson Pass ASP from DIYaudio store or Linkwitz Store) would be a further step up as it avoids these ADC/DAC conversions of the MiniDSP.
The other obvious measurement is the distortion “hump” at 1,4kHz. As mentioned by Davey, it was discussed earlier in the owner’s forum, called OPLUG, in 2017. Is it audible at domestic listening levels? Some posts from year 2017 feature this:
“It is evident that the 1.4 kHz distortion appears only at elevated SPLs and goes up very quickly with the output levels. It shouldn't matter much for listening at moderate SPLs, and loud playing is not an LXmini's forte anyway. That being said, getting rid of this distortion peak wouldn't hurt...”
How to get rid of that this distortion if you find it perceivable? One owner addressed this 2nd order distortion by applying three small self-adhesive felt pads. He measured the 2nd order harmonics in that 1,4kHz range to be lowered from ca 2.5% (-32dB) down to 0.6% (-44dB), but he didn't comment on an audibility of that measure.
Compression measurements: 102dB@1m are unpleasant and damage our hearing. Linkwitz LXmini is not designed for this. At 50Hz, the woofers could have even been driven beyond their mechanical limits. For loud party applications or for PA, there are a lot of other speakers around (horns etc.)
OTOH, we demoed LXmini/+2 to a 20+ people audience at Burning Amp Festival at Ft Mason/San Francisco. The room was larger than many living rooms (ca 60 sqm / 650sqft). LXmini+2 was able to reproduce at fully satisfying volume levels and dynamics.
Erin, I hope you find the time to sort this out and that Linkwitz LXmini is not just a “measure-and-put-away” speaker for you. Indeed, it can be the start of a very satisfying journey into Siegfried Linkwitz´ designs, that allow a live-like audio experience, that is so different from many “box-type” speakers.
Best Regards, Frank Brenner / Linkwitzlab
Hi Frank. Have been following Linkwitz almost from when he created his website. Please consider lending Erin some LX521's for review, that would be great for the community 🙂 It is Linkwitz design, so we know the measurements will hold up just nicely. Linkwitz designs needs to get out in the open, it's time.
@Dave Reite I think we entirely agree 🙂
Hi Frank, as I mentioned elsewhere I received my original mini DSP preloaded by Madisound. The EQ was quite off and that is what Erin might have going on here. To correct it I just went to the User group and copied the settings from there. This fixed the problem to a large degree. I also performed the felt pad mod and then tried coating the junction between the cones with a thin coat of non hardening adhesive ( modpodge). Both solutions succeeded in reducing the distortion by about the same amount as you mention above. However, I was not able to hear anything more than a subtle improvement in sound quality when comparing a treated vs an untreated driver. This was done by listing to the driver alone with EQ but without the woofer operating. I find I can hear subtle differences much easier using this technique.
@Dave Reite David, thank for the input. I guess you do not remember me from previous interactions. I worked at Tektronix for 32 years. I MEASURE everything! It was wrong. I believe the file was somehow corrupted. It was the weekend so I just went on OPPLUG and copied the correct settings. That essentially fixed the issue except for fine tuning to my specific driver/ preferences and adjustments for sub integration. Sounds wonderful now.😀
The tweeter looks like an open baffle design. Wonder if turning the 'tweeter' around so it hangs out in front would eliminate the higher frequency 'noise' which could be a series of reflections from the woofer. Can you measure spectral decay?
Could it be because the full range driver rear side is not fully enclosed?
I remember listening to the previous version of these at Siegfried's room in 2014 at the RMAF. It was the only room that impressed me. 100% agree that they need a sub. And the compression you are seeing is most likely a woofer motor related situation if you are positive that there is no electronic compression. That is not the most robust driver available. That peak in the distortion is nasty. I never liked that stretched polypropylene cone material. I have worked with it. But never liked it. They tend to scream at me. And you are measuring what I have heard as well.
Love to see measurements of an open baffle, like the pure audio project or spatial audio.
What is stopping me from making my own version with a KEF Uni-Q driver up top, and an 8" or 10" in a Transmission line instead of a PVC pipe with a Fernco band?
really nice to see the LXmini put on the klippel. I'm surprised how flat the LW is up to 10khz considering there isn't a tweeter. LX521 when ...
It would be wonderful if you could test the Linkwitz 521, the flagship design. They need one amp per driver and a DSP for the crossover. Linkwitz also designed a unique open baffle subwoofer that is worth testing and auditioning. As for the LXmini, there are higher-end, fully built versions on the market.
One day, hopefully. I am also aware of the LXmini alternatives. Seen some really cool looking ones. And I’ve seen some I’m not convinced are “better” than the original. 🤨
@@ErinsAudioCorner Beraneks Law
@@ajsoundfield9652
Vis-à-vis Erin?
The assembly effort?
@@FOH3663 No, the latter part of his comment: And I’ve seen some I’m not convinced are “better” than the original...above my comment
@@ajsoundfield9652
Got it
Hi Erin, I watched and read your article and very detailed measurements of Linkwitz LX-Mini speakers. Dear may you kindly share the tweakings that you made in original configuration made by Linkwitz ? Best Regards
Floyd Toole tend to discourage EQ above the schroeder frequency because once you are above that frequency, especially when measuring in-room response, the mic can't differentiate the difference between direct (listening window) or reflected (early reflection) sound. If so, when we EQ based on room response, we may be EQing based on the wrong reference. Does it apply in your case?
As I said in the video, I took the anechoic response and EQ’d that. I did not EQ based on an in room response. 👍
I feel like the directivity on these attempts the same principle to the Ohm Walsh but the Ohm might be wider? Ohm seems Omni horizontally up to the tweeter range, which is then aimed in an interesting way. I've been so curious about the Ohms for such a long time... wondering if you have any thoughts on them
I don’t think that letting a driver or loudspeaker firing upwards makes it omnidirectional. You only exchange the vertical issues with the horizontal issues and vice versa. Omnidirectional means in all directions, and most (all?) loudspeakers aren’t.
I have considered the anomaly of higher 2nd harmonic distotion at 1.5Khz and pondered as to whether it may be caused by harmonic radiation from the tweeter pipe. The pipe length is such that it forms an open ended resonant tube at around 1750 Hz without stuffing. The standing wave radiation would be 2nd harmonic that could be measured and interpreted as speaker distortion.
Any thoughts or comments ?
Wonder if the Cinetor-Evo would be a worthwhile DIY speaker.
Uses Scanspeak but the basic Discovery line.
cool shirt dude!
These seem cool as all hell, though very much proto-typie looking. Now do these need specific amplification for optimal performance, or will they play well with anything within their power rating?
This is an active design and require 4 channels of amplification - one per driver; but I haven't heard of anyone having trouble with any particular amps.
Thank you for doing this. Been wondering about these for years. The DI makes me think they would be really good candidates for a modern IIR/FIR room correction system that can do high-res corrections. I also wonder if anyone has attempted a larger woofer/pipe version or found a way to reduce that distortion.
A modern IIR/FIR room correction system? You can have Dirac Live into this miniDSP! Which I have.
@@JerryRutten yes - Dirac, Audyssey, many others.
@@matsudakodo No, what I ment is there are two ‘plug-ins’ for the mentioned miniDSP 2x4 HD, one with and one without Dirac Live.
@@JerryRutten right. My comment was any modern FIR or IIR room correction could do a good job here. Of course if you're already using a MiniDSP, it would be convenient to use Dirac, but the upgrade isn't cheap.
Will these play as loudly (cleanly) as Philharmonic BMR Monitors?
I think they could do with a 2½" or 3½" ring baffle on the full range driver to cut down some of the cancellation you would be getting at lower frequencies. try that cut it out of a bit of quarter inch ply screw it to the speaker the bottom might need to be levelled off straight because the interaction with the woofer. the original full range driver is closer to the woofer that could be why you're getting that bump at 1.2 k, and how far you're moving it in the driver in and out, changes parameters. I think linkwitz said to have it slightly back from the vocal coil centre, I would try lowering the driver down or the baffle as I suggested would do the same thing.
I wonder are you using the original active crossover, design for the speaker by linkwitz?$
Would like to see a take on the Larsen speakers.
Nice review. I have never understood why people call wide-band drivers full range. They are far from full range. 🤓
I think the term "Full range speaker" came along far before the term was used to mean 20-20,000 Hz is why. Full range years ago meant ONE speaker that covered the bass, mids, and treble. I have old catalogs in the 60s and 70s using the term "Full range speaker", and it simply means those speakers that were used in radios, record players, and at times Small all in one speakers that were maybe 3"-8" in diameter but were not actual woofers, NOR mids, and could reproduce "All" sounds to some degree from bass to treble.
@@kevintomb yeah back then there wasn’t much bass in recordings so it was probably a pretty accurate descriptor.
Dont worry about that 2nd harmonic. It cannot be dissonant since its always an octave above your music material.
Always wondered about what was up with this weird speaker.
I think you are on to something about surround compliance. That distortion peak looks a lot like a surround related issue to me.
Erin, I think Linkwitz was having fun when he designed the LXmini out of industrial tubing, but his serious project was the Lx521. You should test that one.
I’d like to. I tried. But no one would send me a pair.
I suppose you can't expect too much from a 6" speaker, a lower listening volume is preferred, it is more of a demonstration model for stepping in the correct direction to enhance soundstage, I still want to build a set. Thanks for the information!
I have my personal doubts about this speaker design..!?! Doesn't the high and low pressure from the woofer affect the "tweeters" performance...?? Since the air passes by the tweeter with 90 deg. . It ought to interfere with the tweeters output frequency curve, when working side by side. As they do during music....
Speaking of DIY designs, it would be cool if someone sent you one of Paul Carmody's Sunflower Redux hybrid dipoles.
I built these several years ago. The soundstage was cool, but I always found them irritatingly bright on certain tracks and music. I had no good way of measuring them at the time to see where the issues were, so I eventually moved on.
It's a weird design! I can't imagine the woofers sounding that great, how did that work out? I imagine you would hear that PVC pipe resonance (think Blue Man Group) unless you had a ton of stuffing inside it.
@@Gersberms Actually the little sewer pipes are inherently well damped and due to their circular shape very stiff and inert. The rubber coupler reduces vibration transmission into pipe significantly. The pipe is almost totally full of stuffing so the reflect wave coming back through the cone is around 1% of the total energy emerging. The fact that it is facing upward also guarantees absolutely uniform on listing axis response, though not power response, up to the woofer crossover which is about 1kHz. As other have said when this is used with a properly integrated sub the bass is quite nice and certainly in no way can be described as a Blue Man pipe.
I built a pair of the predecessor of this speaker, called the "Pluto" around 2009. I came with a blank circuit board and a parts list of resistors, capacitors, inductors, opamps, etc, and I soldered the parts into the board. I still have that speaker and ever since then always thought that an active crossover is the superior engineering design choice over passive crossovers. Kevin Voecks from Harman has also stated during a loudspeaker design panel that he thinks active crossovers are a superior engineering design.
Ah yes, the pluto, I remember those. Linkwitz certainly knew his stuff, the website is fascinating. Agree active is better IF you have stacks of cash and a burning desire to explore the subject of "diminishing returns" (lol, as with so much in the hi fi realm, no ?) These days the Mini DSP stuff and similar does so much for so little, it's a definite hi fi bargain and I'm hankering for their $100 measurement microphone, to finally understand what's going on with various designs, that will be the one rabbit hole I know I will never climb out of ! tee hee.
I wonder if this design has bad diffraction issues, since the "baffles" are round.
I was wondering the same thing as soon as I saw the speaker
Theoretically, there is no baffle. The drivers extend to the edge on the midrange and just barely inside on the woofer. So the only real diffraction would be from the frame/basket. 👍
Think you might like the Ohm Walsh speakers
I used to have a pair of Alon 1s which are dipoles and extremely holographic. They aren't lightweight either. I had tto sell them so I was always interested in whether I could recreate the same effect with the lxmini. It appears that the soundstage is almost the same, but since it's not a full range speaker I'd have to go up to a LX521, which has a kit price of around $3500 including flatpacks, but without DPS/amps.. The built version is around $13,000. Nola (the successor to Acarian/Alon) wants $10k for the newest Alon 1 equivalent. I orignally picked up the Alon 1's used for $900 and the MSRP was around $2k, so still looking. I wish there was something slightly beefier in the Linkwitz lineup in between the mini and the 521.
These or KEF R3’s?
9:19 I bet The Wallflowers sounded great on those.
"There's got to be something better than, in the middle"
How do they compare to something like LS50 with a sub?
I'm really tempted to build these but I would need a multichannel DAC and two stereo amps which is another 1000€ at least.
Are they worth the effort?
The LS design was commissioned to master stereophonic holophonic audio. At the time many people were still using two mono speakers in fact a Tannoy was a common synonym for speaker. The ls3 5as did an analysis of why 2 virtually per perfectly measured mono speakers never create a holophonic sound stage nevermind very good stereo sound. This is similar to how Americans tend to believe that surround sound is required for 3D sound while Europe and Asia just presume everyone knows stereo is holophonic and all 2 channel stereo recordings are in fact 3D except facing forward around where the cross mic array was.
The Ls3 5as were the first standardised stereo studio monitors. In the west Harman jbl etc dominate and still great all speakers like mono speakers and will sum even baffle diffraction together with the sweep and if it adds up to a flat line, then by more speakers.
The concept that the best baffle is a convex and out of the way Amos comes from this concept but people have been making round speakers forever and they're hardly catching on.
Just like a perfectly measured mono speaker doubled doesn't equal a perfect stereo pair at all, adding a third direct on axis in the center makes for a terrible center speaker that is entirely too center weighted.
We have a walled garden between Harman polk and jbl, sandy gross etc where reference sound is shrinkable a bunch of mono arena theatre or club speakers.
The LS50s are a reboot of the first true stereo speakers where became a study that'd continue into the first ambisonic studies that kef also were hosting using their single point designs to delete rooms and make sound scales sound as though they were outside.
True reference speakers sound like real life, but the sound of "live sound" has become self referential to the point klipsch polk jbl etc aim for sound that sound like a scaled down version of "live music".
The LS50s are designed to sound like real life music i.e. Real vocals acoustics instruments live band drawn into your room.
Hi vibe speakers "take your there" and are meant for high octane chest thumping stuff.
A proper set of mains with prior phase alignment will sound as 3D or more so than atmos. The only difference is if you expect atmos to sound like it's comprised from a bunch if jbl speakers which it usually is.
Ok I've read that these speakers are incredible. I saw this review and now I have a lot of questions. You seem hesitant I your review I take that as it's not worth the trouble to get these speakers.The pluto design that linkwitz had was supposed to be unbelievable .everything I read about it was fantastic. These are called the giant killer but you didn't seem impressed at all by these speakers .I don't think I'm gonna get these now .I watched a video that's called "the greatest speaker of all " it's about these speakers. The guy was blown away by them .he demonstrated them in his room. I'm not gonna lie even on RUclips they sounded incredible
I like the speaker. Not sure how you’re coming to the conclusion you are here. 🤔
Hi Erin, How would you rank these 3 Bookshelf Speakers - Klipsch RP600M, Wharfedale 12.2 & Polk Reserve 200? or better than all 3 in that $600-$700 range Thank you in advance!
Think you'd find the Ohm Walsh speakers interesting
It seems like diffraction would be horrible with the circular front
. I first listened to Bose 901s over 4 decades ago. They were not good!
Erin, I don’t understand what you did expect from the compression measurements. What did you?
I think there are two effects of a heated voice coil:
First, the added resistance has more impact on the mid frequencies of the driver (where the impedance is at its lowest), so the low and high frequencies are more accentuated.
Second, the added resistance lowers the electric damping (a damping factor around 1 at maximum power!) which makes the resonance peak higher and narrower. So, louder bass, but less deep bass.
Thermal compression of -1,02 dB corresponds to reducing the damping factor to 8, -1,94 dB corresponds to 4, -3,01 dB corresponds to 2,41 and -6,02 dB corresponds to 1!
Look at my other tests and compare. This compression is quite different than similar sized drivers. Thus, my surprise.
@@ErinsAudioCorner In what way? What’s a nice counter example?
@@JerryRutten this looks more like limiting than driver compression. The entire response is scaled down rather than a particular area (like the bass). I’m not saying it is limiting. I’m saying that’s the reason for my surprise.
Passive 5” woofer:
www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/klipsch_rp_500m_ii/
Powered 5” design:
erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/jbl_4305p/
Look at how the entire response changes vs a more limited range(s).
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks!!
@@ErinsAudioCorner This is very interesting stuff... Maybe a subject for René Christensen?
I think this a typical example of thermal (power) compression:
- At very frequency there is some compression.
- At frequencies with lower impedance in the impedance curve, there is more compression.
- At driver resonance there is less compression, because the electric damping is reduced (whether there is net compression or even enhancement, depends on the situation).
- The port tuning is effected (less compression), because the electric damping is changed.
The amount of thermal compression is more dictated by power and efficiency then by loudness (SPL):
- The drivers used in the LXmini have an sensitivity of 84 dB (woofer) and 85 dB (full range), the Klipsch loudspeaker has a sensitivity of 92 dB.
With a low sensitivity there are two effects:
- More power is needed for the same SPL output.
- More part of the power goes into heating the voice coil.
And, if the driver is smaller, in terms of voice coil and motor structure, the temperature will rise more (and the maximum power rating will be lower).
I understand that the compression measurements are 'instantaneous', thus short term. I think in the extreme case of using more power for a long term will show the effects mentioned above. And if one (partly) compensates for the differences in sensitivity the effects will be more or less the same and the differences depending on the influence of the voice coil resistance will be more obvious.
Sometime you also see changes in bandwidth, especially in the low frequencies, or a moving up of the resonance frequency. I don't have an explanation for that...
On the other hand, a raise in voice coil resistances will effect the crossover frequencies in passive crossover networks. For different drivers, a different amount and with a different time lag. Resulting in fluctuating crossover points (till one octave at the maximum power rating), which results in peaks, dips and shifts depending on heating or cooling down (A big reason for using crossovers before the power amplifier).
The problem with active speakers is....to get max performance out of it (what you can't do with speakers born with passive filters) is you just have to make the specific DSP filters ,matching to your specific room. You just can't download SL giving filters ....because those filters were made for his room. Otherwise, no point getting an active speaker system, you can use passive filters with the same result...
Here's an in-room demo I made for anyone who is curious about these speakers. ruclips.net/video/ZxwE9oiZfmM/видео.html
By the way - these are located 3 ft. off the front wall. I shot this video at night, but if you search, you can find another taken during the day - where you can see them (where they are located) definitely not an ideal room, and no room treatments, and you can see the OB-subs (also a Linkwitz design - SL called them "Phoenix (alt) subs". In my room, the current system is Bluesound Node (N130) coax-out to a pair of Hypex FA-123 (one mounted in each subwoofer cabinet) powering the 2-channels for LX-mini plus the sub on each side. Stereo open-baffle bass - gotta have it. Enjoy!
Hey, Erin
Thanks for this. If you play with subs with these(other than the LX+ ones), please let us know how you integrated them with
the LXs. To me, the LXs image more like my OhmWalsh 2s than anything else, I'm planning to redo them smaller, and set them on bass bins.
Keep up the good work. Best, David(in Vt)
good work. or good "time off". i hope the latter. family first, you tube last.
I thank you, for your time. It was very informative. 3D scanning sound was new. I look forward to the day sound can be represented in realtime.
How is rhe aound ar LOW VOLUME?
Erin, I want to put a bug in your ear. This compression issue. This is the real problem with most current speakers. There is a giant hole in the industry for a moderately priced speaker that addresses this. I am think a small version of the large Klipsch but meant to be used with a sub woofer as they are now ubiquitous.
it's great to see a review of the Linkwitz LXmini.
I was not a huge fan - primarily on the basis of the very diy looks of it - but I've always been a fan of - and curious about - the Linkwitz electronic crossovers. In fact, it would be great to see a review of those on their own.
In general, I'm not such a fan of the speakers with the mid/woofer pointing upwards. I think I see what they're doing: they are delaying (and reducing) the hf content of the mid/woofer essentially taking it out of the equation. But doesn't that cause a dip in the crossover frequency? I guess perhaps the hf driver works pretty much as a full range would with some assistance in the lows from the mid/woofer. In that sense, you lose a lot of the lf power by not having a baffle. Any benefits/drawbacks observed when placing close to the corner? Or does that smear the hf too much?
In other words...the point is important.
............................(the part that counts)..............time is everything.
Expensive for the fidelity
The cylinder is the worst design for diffraction. I wonder how it sounds in person. A globe would be way better for the tweeter. That would be an interesting speaker.
But another question. What is your favorite speaker Erin? For 1 or 2k a pair for example.