Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I have a mother who is strong enough to admit to me that she wasnt able to love me enough as a child and that she was not able to bc her mother wasnt able to love her properly. Her admission of this has helped me process a lot of the anger I have felt towards her for my entire life and i now feel safer with her and in the world generally-although there is still much work to be done
The trick is to get a narcissist accept these truths about themselves and most of them will not go to therapy and if they do it will only be temporary and they will blame others for their misery...instead..Most likely their parents were narcicists themselves...and will not take responsibility for their mistakes..Do some videos about the people who have to live and work with them and whose lives they leave in a shambles..no sympathy for narcicists sorry..
@mariegumpel4955 - There are comments from people who identify as having pathological narcissism/NPD on this video. Perhaps whoever you know/knew wouldn’t listen or wasn’t ready to seek help. Maybe they didn’t even have NPD (it’s actually difficult to reliably and accurately diagnose). But there are people out there who have NPD and want to heal.
Thats good. How do you explain people going through an entire lifetime like this . They just aren't ready to change. The majority of narcicists do not go for help and do not change. Not according to the experts ..@@healnpd
Your channel has some of the most profound explanations of NPD, and this particular video struck an emotional chord within. I found myself in tears because I am finally able to forgive the pwNPD who nearly destroyed me. It doesn’t mean I have to invite them unhealed back into my life again, but it gave me more compassion to be able to forgive. Thank you. Your content is life-altering.
As someone who's made a full recovery from BPD, this video really spoke to me also. Few people have the stomach for the "death" you're talking about, least of all narcissists. That's not a criticism, it's understandable. There are several deaths as you heal a personality disorder. You won't believe the levels of inner horror involved in this dismantling until you're in it. And that's assuming you manage to find a competent doctor to take you through it. Healing is brutal, a bloodbath. I no longer have the diagnosis, but remain haunted. My NPD ex showed me himself with his false self fallen away, my father too. You're looking at a disembodied soul. It's ghoulish, pitiful - I can never think about narcissists in the same way. Thank you for your compassion, and loved the part about the parents refusing to see. You are spot on. It happens with BPD too. My 'cost of entry' to recovery was that my illusions about them died also.
you made me cry again! thank you for such a informative and compassionate video. i feel like being born into my family, i was doomed from the start. there was never a chance for me to have a normal life. but there still can be a kind future for me... again, thank you ❤
this was great! ive been worried about performing my emotions, actions, thoughts, etc. all day (especially crying) but felt good to cry here, naturally. a very compassionate informative video, thank you
As someone who grew up in an environment like this, I really appreciate the insight. Your work is always spot on. It's clear you're not just reformatting knowledge. Your videos always include deep insights of your own, and I include them in my own work to recovery.
Thank you, Dr. Mark, for explaining this in such a profound way and for following a clear scientific structure. I am truly touched by your empathetic approach, which is complemented by thorough research and well-established knowledge. As someone who had a very close relationship with a person exhibiting NPD traits, your video-especially this one-has helped me find forgiveness and build my defense and trust system.
Indeed, the grandiose false self seeks admiration as much as the depressed false self uses self-blame both as means of coping and controlling their environments to achieve safety. Both are desperate cries for a never known, never received love. And also a fear of withdrawal of possible future love by others who would see them as they truly are. I like your insights on how these manifest as a: 1) striving for being who you are not (grandiose persona) or 2 judging yourself (depressive persona).
Thank you Dr. Love these longer-form vids. Your insights help me heal from my past while also being keenly aware to not bring these very same things into my role as a mother to my young son. It's a hard journey but I don't want him to experience the invalidation and shame that has crippled me. Thank you for your compassion and nuance.
Wow, this was explained with such articulation! The clarity in explaining how the pathological self-structure was created and understanding it as a survival mechanism really helps individuals feel compassion for those suffering from pathological narcissism. This disorder has many tragic paradoxes…Dr. Ettenshon, thank you for shedding light on this highly misunderstood and controversial disorder. Your work is so important and necessary!
Abuse has many paradoxes as it is those who are abused the worst who will go on to live a life of self abuse, with no way out, trapped and alone. Forever.
These videos are so helpful, but I watch them from the perspective of an echoist, I assume, as well as painful past relationships and at least one with someone who had NPD. My therapist and hero handed me the book by Alice Miller, Drama of the Gifted Child, on my second visit of marriage counseling that my partner at that time ditched. But I continued on. Echoists bring their own baggage and need to claim an authentic self as well, which, at times, leaves me baffled. Anyway, you all are here on this channel, and I hope you all continue the work. It took me a tremendous amount of dedication, including years of therapy and countless hours of meditation. Most importantly, I found the courage to face and understand that shame. Sending love to all parts of myself and yours.
A great theatre indeed, where we spend most of our time preparing for a fleeting show, hoping for recognition and the power to survive until the next act. A truly sad lifestyle, one that often feels hollow and endless. I can only hope that the damage it causes will be bearable for those we hold dear, that they may find strength where we falter ❤
Wonderful video, thank you, I relate to this as someone who was raised by someone with undiagnosed and untreated vulnerable NPD. The codependency I've developed can feel similar to let go of. Thank you, Doctor ❤
To me the real difficulty is “knowing who I am”. Most of “who I am” has been regenerated through looking inside to my memories of who I was as a kid and then re-establish those aspects (or act and develop from those intrinsic motivators I then recognise).
Very validating and heartbreaking. Thank you. I think that emptiness can feel very frightening, which can understandably lead to retreat back into grandiosity. What can individuals with NPD/narcissistic leanings do to resist the pull of grandiosity? From the outside, it seems full of false promises, but when you feel like you're drowning and it's been your only life raft in the past, it might really hard to resist grabbing on.
I've hit this emptiness and I'm struggling to find stability elsewhere, it's really hard with it happening all at once. But I guess it's gonna happen when it does haha. Thanks for the hopeful outlook, doc, it really helps.
Hi. This is in no way meant to be a criticism. I really like your videos and have learned a lot from them. Your explanation of the development of narcissism seems plausible. But I have a few questions and would be very happy to receive an answer. 1. As far as I know, narcissistic traits are inherited to a not insignificant extent. How does this fit into your explanation? Are some children born narcissistic and remain so regardless of how they are brought up? 2. The way you describe narcissism, it sounds as if it is an inherently bad personality trait that results from emotional neglect in childhood, i.e. poor upbringing. But some studies show that people with certain narcissistic traits are not only more successful, but happier in many areas of life. People with very low levels of narcissism are actually significantly unhappier on average. How does this fit in with your explanation of how narcissism develops? According to your explanation, shouldn't people with very low levels of narcissism be the happiest because they have been accepted exactly as they are? Can we say that the degree of narcissism is causally related to how well children were accepted by their parents or would that be too simplistic? 3. Aren't many other mental disorders, e.g. other personality disorders, also linked to the fact that those affected experienced emotional neglect in their childhood? Does only a very specific form of emotional neglect lead to the development of a narcissistic structure? 4. isn't the formation of a false self to a certain extent completely normal or necessary and can complement the authentic self in a meaningful way? After all, no parent in the world can accept their child 100% as they are. No childhood is perfect. Besides, we all need to be brought up to fit into society, starting at school and continuing in the world of work. As I said, I would be very happy to receive an answer from you, these questions have been on my mind for a long time. I am aware that there are probably no definitive answers to these questions (yet), after all the psyche is complex. Nevertheless, I would be very interested in your opinion. I look forward to your next video. Your channel is a great asset. Greetings from Germany
@@horstbauer6201 Go check out Borderliner Notes, they touch on the inheritability of NPD, BPD, and ASPD alike. Long story short there's traits that can lean you a certain way but they're only part of the story. That, and arguably, NPD is a defense against getting BPD(which is a really great Borderliner Notes vid on its own), and so it's important to note that the kinds of things these maladaptions are coping with are rather difficult choices to make if they set you on paths trying to avoid one personality disorder or another only to end up in one of them.
Hopefully Dr E answers but here’s my two cents from a psychologist who doesn’t specialize in narcissism: narcissists are not born, they are made in response to parental neglect and rejection and the need to create a false self in order to be accepted. Other theories state that parents who feed their child’s ego or cold, critical parents can cause narcissism in their children. What you refer to in question #2 is a healthy self love or strong self esteem. #3: Emotional neglect can manifest in multiple ways-narcissism is only one of many ways (there are other personality disorders) and lastly, 4: it is true very parents can 100% accept who their children are which is why psychologists will always have a job,;-) …but it’s never healthy to have a false self even if it co exists with an authentic self, actually I don’t think that’s possible-instead the goal is to have a fully integrated authentic whole self. It doesn’t matter how long it takes to find that, just know that it can and will be found. Possibly what you refer to as a false self is a “brave face”? Which ultimately can certainly be a part of all of us, rather than a separate false self.
That was really good. Do you have a talk about the victim narcissist. My mum is a victim and that is her defence. She can be really hurtful but is always the victim. I definitely grieved the person I could have been, and grieved the authentic connections I could have had. I'm 54 now so it's too late for a partner but even friendships, I perform less. I used to sing for my supper. Now I understand that communication is reciprocal. And is worth more if it's sincere. I had a false self until about 40
I have five of Alice Miller's books. The audiobook of the drama of the gifted child is on youtube, and is well worth listening to. It makes for compelling reading / listening
Dr Ettensohn, as a chronic skeptic I can attest to the fact that Alice Miller's way of explaining the formation of pathological narcissism sounds possible. But at the same time it's just an interpretation - one subjective way of constructing an explanation for a specific phenomenon out of many possible ways. The same phenomenon can be explained in a dozen of other ways, that may sound just as coherent. I tend to think that a more neuroscientific approach can provide more objective models of explaining deviations in the mental domain. Unless there is an observable neurological alteration compared to healthy controls, we can assume that the person is perfectly capable of behaving in a healthy and "normal" manner. And if there are neurological alterations, then chances are that psychotherapy / psychoanalysis won't work, since it cannot really undo the neurological causes. Psychoanalytical derrived models of explanation often have an arbitrary nature, as in boiling down to the subjective interpretations of prominent individuals in that domain, that are at best based on heuristics, at worst on purely subjective interpretations, but rarely ever on quantitative empirical findings. I'm a big fan of arriving at conclusions heuristically, based on a curious, inquisitive and self-critical way of going through the world, but these conclusions are obviously colored by our own general perception biases and socialisation, so not always 100% accurate.
Reflection: Recognizing these gaps isn't about resignation or blame but about using awareness as a springboard for transformation. While we can't undo the past, we can shape the future by consciously choosing how to approach our growth. 🤝
I really appreciate your videos, I've been watching them all week. I'm starting to recognize myself as being in the neurotic range of the narcissistic type of personality. In the past I've considered myself "codependent", and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on if/how "codependence" fits into the narcissistic type in the psychodynamic classification system, if it does. Thanks!
Thanks for this informative video. Some of your points about grandiosity and depression being symptoms of hot being able to accept a loss that has already happened reminded me about the 5 stages of grief. Could it be said that narcissism and NPD are when a person is stuck between the first 4 stages and acceptance is when the true self can finally emerge?
Weird q- how to tell if goals / aspirations are grandiose? I had a parentified sibling who would keep our ambitions and successes in check, kind of like Nordic culture of never distinguishing self. So then if a person is passive, they may come to passive-aggressiveness in lieu of assertion, and this will appear grandiose. For example, shooting down ideas of being a doctor... How to tell if one is grandiose for holding "unrealistic" aspirations? Or if one's social context is simply unsupportive or short-sighted?
Is everything false? Or are their fragments or slivers truth? There are a some times I feel authentic with certain people and animals. The idea that I am nothing but a mask makes me terrified and want to give up. Since collapse I notice my defenses constantly, but I can’t relax in my body without them. I feel like I am in danger. I am scared of myself and others more than I ever have been.
@@healnpd I think I’m able to identify most of my defenses, but shedding them all at once is too much. What is your advice in terms of having the strength to continue on? What have you seen in successful patients?
@purplefinch29 - I don’t think it’s possible for anyone to shed all of their defenses at once. The false self is a construct, an abstraction that’s useful for thinking about these issues. Real life is much more complex. There is always a mix of authenticity and inauthenticity in real people, even ones who have severe NPD. That’s one of the reasons I scratch my head when I hear people say that pwNPD don’t have a “real self.” Of course they do. But there is a confusion in terms of what is authentic and what is there because someone else pressured or demanded it to be there. The ancient mosaic metaphor toward the end of the video is meant to convey this dynamic. The “real self” is there, but sort of paved over with a self that is programmed to be pleasing or gratifying to other people. Healing is gradual and involves learning to recognize those false self attributes while reclaiming authenticity and grieving the core injuries and losses. It is best accomplished in the context of a therapy relationship.
@purplefinch29 I don't know if this makes any difference for you but what helped me when I was at the stage of fearing myself was learning to differentiate what part of that is my fear of hurting others and my fear that I'm unlovable, because the latter for me has often been assumptions on my part about other peoples' feelings disguised as my own fears. i.e., I'm afraid someone will feel a certain way that makes recovery impossible. The former has been the good ol' battle of self-acceptance and that I can't get better about it all at once and mistakes and bad stuff are still gonna happen as I learn, but I own those parts to begin with. And thus, for me, it was about trusting those that do connect with me and do forgive and do give me patience and understanding and letting them have that part of the burden instead of myself. And knowing that they /want/ that part of the burden shows me the authenticity of their affection and friendship.
@@healnpd Thank you for your lovely response. I have felt hopeless and afraid lately - to an extremely dangerous point. Do you have a recommendations for when it gets to a really scary low place? And what about relationships with others during recovery? I have isolated severely as of late. My therapist uses IFS and DBT, are these things you believe to be effective for NPD? I’ve found IFS to be very compassionate, but I worry it’s not challenging me enough. Now I question whether my joy is even real. I have actually learned to identify a lot of what is pressured to be there - one being that I have to act happy and positive all the time and working is a big one. I am super knowledgeable on attachment / intellectualize healing and have for *years*, prior to awareness of cluster B. But my somatic and trauma responses don’t go away. I *know* a lot of the answers logically but somatically I dissociate and still split off when triggered subconsciously. I know you have to work to survive - but I resent it because of my trauma. I have so much trauma around being mocked and belittled for my emotions, told to suck it up. Running away from home. The memories are countless for over 15 years. This trauma is something I’ve been conscious of for several years but have never worked through because my defenses are so knee jerk. Another thing I’ve been conscious of: My family cared so much about my grades and work but I never really have and have resented them for it and have let them know that for years, actually.
Dr. Mark, can you please talk about mothers who have npd but also sociopathy? Can you talk more about the npd parent scapegoating their child? Please I need to hear a gentle perspective on this😞. Is there a way for the scapegoated child to help the npd parent??
I really loved this video, Dr. Ettensohn. Thank you so much. Do you think it would be okay to send this video to the one I loved (a narcissist)? He's been hoovering me under different names on Telegram, and I have been ignoring hi,. I know he is losing it because he feels he cannot control me. This video will let him know that I KNOW!!
@RaisingAwarenessBerlin that's what I've been told but I wanted to get another opinion. He lives about 10 hours away (driving) but he has my address and he comes to the State I live in sometimes, so I think you're right. Thank you so much!
This is kinda brilliant. Unluckily this knownledge won't help even a little in most cases. 🙃 Well... maybe a little.... for a short period. Before the Dementia/Object Permanence kicks in. Trauma Amnesia Brain is not funny. Especially for a healthy brain that has to deal with it.
You make it sound like all estranged children had bad parents. Not all estranged parents have NPD. There are situations of NPD friends of the child that manipulate them & convince them that their parents are NPD. Especially those friends that did have a bad childhood. It's not always about a false self.
I guarantee you your kids gave you many reasons for estranging you, and you dismissed them, and told them they weren't valid reasons. Your projecting your own bs into your child's friends.
Ofc all estranged parents aren t npd. The thought that a friend was able to convince your child sounds weird. It s impossible to have a relationship w anyone & a 3rd person brainwashes them. Now i don t get why you should have npd specifically to be estranged. Either your child has some issue & you didn t communicate or you aren t aware of what abuse is. It isn t just physical violence. Idk what happened but saying a 3rd person manipulated could be the easy solution. If you have npd or other pd or neurodiversity there s lack of insight so maybe you just can t see.
Yeah, maybe the spouse of a child could isolate them, making them estranged from their parents, but a friend? Sounds like whoever is apart of these situations that is blaming the friend of the child is coping very hard because that is very doubtful to say the least.
You are speaking of people with narcissist traits. People with NPD can't heal and nearly everyone knows this. The damage is too deep. And at least one of the parents of a person with NPD usually has NPD themselves.
@minoozolala - I’m a clinical psychologist who specializes in assessing, diagnosing, and treating NPD. My content is based on both the clinical/empirical literature and my experience working directly with this population and their loved ones. I am not just talking about people with narcissistic traits.
Grown ass man child in tears. That touched something in me deeply. Thanks for your work
❤️
@@twillsJKZ your not alone
I was attacked when I was authentic. I have struggled with depression all life. And surrounded me with people that continued this abuse.
@@Helena-to9my Same. Screamed at and mocked for having negative emotions
This guy is one of the most articulate and on point mental health speakers I've ever heard.
Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I have a mother who is strong enough to admit to me that she wasnt able to love me enough as a child and that she was not able to bc her mother wasnt able to love her properly. Her admission of this has helped me process a lot of the anger I have felt towards her for my entire life and i now feel safer with her and in the world generally-although there is still much work to be done
This channel and Heidi Priebe's have deeply impacted me and changed my life. Thank you so much for posting these videos, Dr. Ettensohn!
I am so glad to hear that!
Heidi gave me an epiphany about my attachment wounds! I was caught off guard haha but it's a welcome discovery
Heidi Priebe is amazing.
@@beepboop4937 Love Heidi 🩷
Heid Priebe is amazing
Such a well spoken and clear explanation. Thank you.
You are very welcome!
The trick is to get a narcissist accept these truths about themselves and most of them will not go to therapy and if they do it will only be temporary and they will blame others for their misery...instead..Most likely their parents were narcicists themselves...and will not take responsibility for their mistakes..Do some videos about the people who have to live and work with them and whose lives they leave in a shambles..no sympathy for narcicists sorry..
@mariegumpel4955 - There are comments from people who identify as having pathological narcissism/NPD on this video. Perhaps whoever you know/knew wouldn’t listen or wasn’t ready to seek help. Maybe they didn’t even have NPD (it’s actually difficult to reliably and accurately diagnose). But there are people out there who have NPD and want to heal.
Thats good. How do you explain people going through an entire lifetime like this . They just aren't ready to change. The majority of narcicists do not go for help and do not change. Not according to the experts ..@@healnpd
Once again, he cooked🔥🔥
Best explanation of narcissism I ever saw .in fact it's the 1st time I understood what exactly narcissism is from the narcissists perspective
Your channel has some of the most profound explanations of NPD, and this particular video struck an emotional chord within. I found myself in tears because I am finally able to forgive the pwNPD who nearly destroyed me. It doesn’t mean I have to invite them unhealed back into my life again, but it gave me more compassion to be able to forgive. Thank you. Your content is life-altering.
I'm so glad that this video helped you.
As someone who's made a full recovery from BPD, this video really spoke to me also. Few people have the stomach for the "death" you're talking about, least of all narcissists. That's not a criticism, it's understandable. There are several deaths as you heal a personality disorder. You won't believe the levels of inner horror involved in this dismantling until you're in it. And that's assuming you manage to find a competent doctor to take you through it. Healing is brutal, a bloodbath. I no longer have the diagnosis, but remain haunted. My NPD ex showed me himself with his false self fallen away, my father too. You're looking at a disembodied soul. It's ghoulish, pitiful - I can never think about narcissists in the same way. Thank you for your compassion, and loved the part about the parents refusing to see. You are spot on. It happens with BPD too. My 'cost of entry' to recovery was that my illusions about them died also.
you made me cry again!
thank you for such a informative and compassionate video.
i feel like being born into my family, i was doomed from the start. there was never a chance for me to have a normal life. but there still can be a kind future for me...
again, thank you ❤
@@kmkzsz Jesus Bless you ❤️
same about the doomed from the start hahaha
@@tinaureta9891 Thank you ❤
@Juupitrr it sucks so much but im sure we will be able to heal and have a better life 🫂💖🎉
this was great! ive been worried about performing my emotions, actions, thoughts, etc. all day (especially crying) but felt good to cry here, naturally. a very compassionate informative video, thank you
As someone who grew up in an environment like this, I really appreciate the insight. Your work is always spot on.
It's clear you're not just reformatting knowledge. Your videos always include deep insights of your own, and I include them in my own work to recovery.
Thank you, Dr. Mark, for explaining this in such a profound way and for following a clear scientific structure. I am truly touched by your empathetic approach, which is complemented by thorough research and well-established knowledge. As someone who had a very close relationship with a person exhibiting NPD traits, your video-especially this one-has helped me find forgiveness and build my defense and trust system.
Indeed, the grandiose false self seeks admiration as much as the depressed false self uses self-blame both as means of coping and controlling their environments to achieve safety. Both are desperate cries for a never known, never received love. And also a fear of withdrawal of possible future love by others who would see them as they truly are.
I like your insights on how these manifest as a: 1) striving for being who you are not (grandiose persona) or 2 judging yourself (depressive persona).
Thank you Dr. Love these longer-form vids. Your insights help me heal from my past while also being keenly aware to not bring these very same things into my role as a mother to my young son. It's a hard journey but I don't want him to experience the invalidation and shame that has crippled me. Thank you for your compassion and nuance.
Wow, this was explained with such articulation! The clarity in explaining how the pathological self-structure was created and understanding it as a survival mechanism really helps individuals feel compassion for those suffering from pathological narcissism. This disorder has many tragic paradoxes…Dr. Ettenshon, thank you for shedding light on this highly misunderstood and controversial disorder. Your work is so important and necessary!
Abuse has many paradoxes as it is those who are abused the worst who will go on to live a life of self abuse, with no way out, trapped and alone. Forever.
Wow. I’m always blown away with the depth of your analysis and your compassion. Keep up the great work 🙌
Thanks for watching!
Glad to see you back! Happy holidays! Such a well spoken and clear explanation. Thank you.
These videos are so helpful, but I watch them from the perspective of an echoist, I assume, as well as painful past relationships and at least one with someone who had NPD. My therapist and hero handed me the book by Alice Miller, Drama of the Gifted Child, on my second visit of marriage counseling that my partner at that time ditched. But I continued on. Echoists bring their own baggage and need to claim an authentic self as well, which, at times, leaves me baffled. Anyway, you all are here on this channel, and I hope you all continue the work. It took me a tremendous amount of dedication, including years of therapy and countless hours of meditation. Most importantly, I found the courage to face and understand that shame. Sending love to all parts of myself and yours.
A great theatre indeed, where we spend most of our time preparing for a fleeting show, hoping for recognition and the power to survive until the next act. A truly sad lifestyle, one that often feels hollow and endless. I can only hope that the damage it causes will be bearable for those we hold dear, that they may find strength where we falter ❤
Beautiful insight , thank you
and a happy 2025 for you.
Same to you!
Thank you. This was so revealing. It all made so much sense.
Wonderful video, thank you, I relate to this as someone who was raised by someone with undiagnosed and untreated vulnerable NPD. The codependency I've developed can feel similar to let go of. Thank you, Doctor ❤
Thank you for another insightful talk on this subject. Its always nice to hear against the background noise of pop-psyche nonsense.
Thanks for listening
This video moved me to tears
To me the real difficulty is “knowing who I am”. Most of “who I am” has been regenerated through looking inside to my memories of who I was as a kid and then re-establish those aspects (or act and develop from those intrinsic motivators I then recognise).
you're the man.
Very validating and heartbreaking. Thank you. I think that emptiness can feel very frightening, which can understandably lead to retreat back into grandiosity. What can individuals with NPD/narcissistic leanings do to resist the pull of grandiosity? From the outside, it seems full of false promises, but when you feel like you're drowning and it's been your only life raft in the past, it might really hard to resist grabbing on.
Oh wow you just told my own story word for word...
❤️
Wow. Thankyou. I understand more now. This explanation is wonderful/scary and incredibly accurate as a "B" 💯
I've hit this emptiness and I'm struggling to find stability elsewhere, it's really hard with it happening all at once. But I guess it's gonna happen when it does haha.
Thanks for the hopeful outlook, doc, it really helps.
Hi. This is in no way meant to be a criticism. I really like your videos and have learned a lot from them. Your explanation of the development of narcissism seems plausible. But I have a few questions and would be very happy to receive an answer.
1. As far as I know, narcissistic traits are inherited to a not insignificant extent. How does this fit into your explanation? Are some children born narcissistic and remain so regardless of how they are brought up?
2. The way you describe narcissism, it sounds as if it is an inherently bad personality trait that results from emotional neglect in childhood, i.e. poor upbringing. But some studies show that people with certain narcissistic traits are not only more successful, but happier in many areas of life. People with very low levels of narcissism are actually significantly unhappier on average. How does this fit in with your explanation of how narcissism develops? According to your explanation, shouldn't people with very low levels of narcissism be the happiest because they have been accepted exactly as they are? Can we say that the degree of narcissism is causally related to how well children were accepted by their parents or would that be too simplistic?
3. Aren't many other mental disorders, e.g. other personality disorders, also linked to the fact that those affected experienced emotional neglect in their childhood? Does only a very specific form of emotional neglect lead to the development of a narcissistic structure?
4. isn't the formation of a false self to a certain extent completely normal or necessary and can complement the authentic self in a meaningful way? After all, no parent in the world can accept their child 100% as they are. No childhood is perfect. Besides, we all need to be brought up to fit into society, starting at school and continuing in the world of work.
As I said, I would be very happy to receive an answer from you, these questions have been on my mind for a long time. I am aware that there are probably no definitive answers to these questions (yet), after all the psyche is complex. Nevertheless, I would be very interested in your opinion. I look forward to your next video. Your channel is a great asset. Greetings from Germany
(Dr. Peter Salerno)
Watch the rest of his videos
@@aclark446Actually i have watched all of them, but I might have missed some information. Do you have a particular video in mind?
@@horstbauer6201 Go check out Borderliner Notes, they touch on the inheritability of NPD, BPD, and ASPD alike. Long story short there's traits that can lean you a certain way but they're only part of the story. That, and arguably, NPD is a defense against getting BPD(which is a really great Borderliner Notes vid on its own), and so it's important to note that the kinds of things these maladaptions are coping with are rather difficult choices to make if they set you on paths trying to avoid one personality disorder or another only to end up in one of them.
Hopefully Dr E answers but here’s my two cents from a psychologist who doesn’t specialize in narcissism: narcissists are not born, they are made in response to parental neglect and rejection and the need to create a false self in order to be accepted. Other theories state that parents who feed their child’s ego or cold, critical parents can cause narcissism in their children. What you refer to in question #2 is a healthy self love or strong self esteem. #3: Emotional neglect can manifest in multiple ways-narcissism is only one of many ways (there are other personality disorders) and lastly, 4: it is true very parents can 100% accept who their children are which is why psychologists will always have a job,;-) …but it’s never healthy to have a false self even if it co exists with an authentic self, actually I don’t think that’s possible-instead the goal is to have a fully integrated authentic whole self. It doesn’t matter how long it takes to find that, just know that it can and will be found. Possibly what you refer to as a false self is a “brave face”? Which ultimately can certainly be a part of all of us, rather than a separate false self.
Thank you so much for yor work.
Welcome!
That was really good. Do you have a talk about the victim narcissist. My mum is a victim and that is her defence. She can be really hurtful but is always the victim. I definitely grieved the person I could have been, and grieved the authentic connections I could have had. I'm 54 now so it's too late for a partner but even friendships, I perform less. I used to sing for my supper. Now I understand that communication is reciprocal. And is worth more if it's sincere. I had a false self until about 40
What a great synopsis
You are good.
Thanks, and thanks for watching.
I like and agree with the image of high Castle vs Low Rubble - that really illustrates the mental structure
At best it’s a metaphor, not an actual description of mental dynamics!
Sad topic but great, clear video 👍
I have five of Alice Miller's books. The audiobook of the drama of the gifted child is on youtube, and is well worth listening to. It makes for compelling reading / listening
In my opinion most parents want to continue the family tradition of dysfunction. I would not want this mans job.
Thank you Dr.
Can you talk about how over praise and over pampered parenting can lead to Narcissism?
Thank you
Dr Ettensohn, as a chronic skeptic I can attest to the fact that Alice Miller's way of explaining the formation of pathological narcissism sounds possible.
But at the same time it's just an interpretation - one subjective way of constructing an explanation for a specific phenomenon out of many possible ways.
The same phenomenon can be explained in a dozen of other ways, that may sound just as coherent.
I tend to think that a more neuroscientific approach can provide more objective models of explaining deviations in the mental domain. Unless there is an observable neurological alteration compared to healthy controls, we can assume that the person is perfectly capable of behaving in a healthy and "normal" manner. And if there are neurological alterations, then chances are that psychotherapy / psychoanalysis won't work, since it cannot really undo the neurological causes.
Psychoanalytical derrived models of explanation often have an arbitrary nature, as in boiling down to the subjective interpretations of prominent individuals in that domain, that are at best based on heuristics, at worst on purely subjective interpretations, but rarely ever on quantitative empirical findings.
I'm a big fan of arriving at conclusions heuristically, based on a curious, inquisitive and self-critical way of going through the world, but these conclusions are obviously colored by our own general perception biases and socialisation, so not always 100% accurate.
Reflection: Recognizing these gaps isn't about resignation or blame but about using awareness as a springboard for transformation. While we can't undo the past, we can shape the future by consciously choosing how to approach our growth. 🤝
I really appreciate your videos, I've been watching them all week. I'm starting to recognize myself as being in the neurotic range of the narcissistic type of personality. In the past I've considered myself "codependent", and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on if/how "codependence" fits into the narcissistic type in the psychodynamic classification system, if it does. Thanks!
Now, apply this knowledge to the roles you play/masks you wear in society...
Thanks for this informative video. Some of your points about grandiosity and depression being symptoms of hot being able to accept a loss that has already happened reminded me about the 5 stages of grief.
Could it be said that narcissism and NPD are when a person is stuck between the first 4 stages and acceptance is when the true self can finally emerge?
Weird q- how to tell if goals / aspirations are grandiose? I had a parentified sibling who would keep our ambitions and successes in check, kind of like Nordic culture of never distinguishing self.
So then if a person is passive, they may come to passive-aggressiveness in lieu of assertion, and this will appear grandiose.
For example, shooting down ideas of being a doctor... How to tell if one is grandiose for holding "unrealistic" aspirations? Or if one's social context is simply unsupportive or short-sighted?
Is everything false? Or are their fragments or slivers truth? There are a some times I feel authentic with certain people and animals.
The idea that I am nothing but a mask makes me terrified and want to give up.
Since collapse I notice my defenses constantly, but I can’t relax in my body without them. I feel like I am in danger. I am scared of myself and others more than I ever have been.
@purplefinch29 - No, everything isn’t false. 🙂
@@healnpd I think I’m able to identify most of my defenses, but shedding them all at once is too much.
What is your advice in terms of having the strength to continue on? What have you seen in successful patients?
@purplefinch29 - I don’t think it’s possible for anyone to shed all of their defenses at once. The false self is a construct, an abstraction that’s useful for thinking about these issues. Real life is much more complex. There is always a mix of authenticity and inauthenticity in real people, even ones who have severe NPD. That’s one of the reasons I scratch my head when I hear people say that pwNPD don’t have a “real self.” Of course they do. But there is a confusion in terms of what is authentic and what is there because someone else pressured or demanded it to be there. The ancient mosaic metaphor toward the end of the video is meant to convey this dynamic. The “real self” is there, but sort of paved over with a self that is programmed to be pleasing or gratifying to other people.
Healing is gradual and involves learning to recognize those false self attributes while reclaiming authenticity and grieving the core injuries and losses. It is best accomplished in the context of a therapy relationship.
@purplefinch29
I don't know if this makes any difference for you but what helped me when I was at the stage of fearing myself was learning to differentiate what part of that is my fear of hurting others and my fear that I'm unlovable, because the latter for me has often been assumptions on my part about other peoples' feelings disguised as my own fears. i.e., I'm afraid someone will feel a certain way that makes recovery impossible. The former has been the good ol' battle of self-acceptance and that I can't get better about it all at once and mistakes and bad stuff are still gonna happen as I learn, but I own those parts to begin with.
And thus, for me, it was about trusting those that do connect with me and do forgive and do give me patience and understanding and letting them have that part of the burden instead of myself. And knowing that they /want/ that part of the burden shows me the authenticity of their affection and friendship.
@@healnpd Thank you for your lovely response. I have felt hopeless and afraid lately - to an extremely
dangerous point.
Do you have a recommendations for when it gets to a really scary low place? And what about relationships with others during recovery? I have isolated severely as of late.
My therapist uses IFS and DBT, are these things you believe to be effective for NPD? I’ve found IFS to be very compassionate, but I worry it’s not challenging me enough.
Now I question whether my joy is even real.
I have actually learned to identify a lot of what is pressured to be there - one being that I have to
act happy and positive all the time and working is a big one. I am super knowledgeable on attachment / intellectualize healing and have for *years*, prior to awareness of cluster B. But my somatic and trauma responses don’t go away.
I *know* a lot of the answers logically
but somatically I dissociate and still split off when triggered subconsciously.
I know you have to work to survive - but I resent it because of my trauma. I have so much trauma around being mocked and belittled for my emotions, told to suck it up. Running away from home. The memories are countless for over 15 years.
This trauma is something I’ve been conscious of for several years but have never worked through because my defenses are so knee jerk.
Another thing I’ve been conscious of: My family cared so much about my grades and work but I never really have and have resented them for it and have let them know that for years, actually.
Word.
Dr. Mark, can you please talk about mothers who have npd but also sociopathy? Can you talk more about the npd parent scapegoating their child? Please I need to hear a gentle perspective on this😞. Is there a way for the scapegoated child to help the npd parent??
I really loved this video, Dr. Ettensohn. Thank you so much. Do you think it would be okay to send this video to the one I loved (a narcissist)? He's been hoovering me under different names on Telegram, and I have been ignoring hi,. I know he is losing it because he feels he cannot control me. This video will let him know that I KNOW!!
@@dimples2290 don’t let him know. It can be dangerous.
@RaisingAwarenessBerlin that's what I've been told but I wanted to get another opinion. He lives about 10 hours away (driving) but he has my address and he comes to the State I live in sometimes, so I think you're right. Thank you so much!
It’s not really clear how to become a paid member. Could you please list more specific instructions on how to do this?
You can become a paid member by following this link: ruclips.net/channel/UCHeT5kujD1JqHRAi-x8xD-wjoin
Excellent stuff!
Thank you for watching!
Curious if anyone knows of a channel like this one but in spanish. I've only seen negative ones that are just a complete downer
wow myfolks Narcisto~ Genic
This is kinda brilliant. Unluckily this knownledge won't help even a little in most cases. 🙃
Well... maybe a little.... for a short period. Before the Dementia/Object Permanence kicks in.
Trauma Amnesia Brain is not funny. Especially for a healthy brain that has to deal with it.
You make it sound like all estranged children had bad parents. Not all estranged parents have NPD. There are situations of NPD friends of the child that manipulate them & convince them that their parents are NPD. Especially those friends that did have a bad childhood. It's not always about a false self.
I guarantee you your kids gave you many reasons for estranging you, and you dismissed them, and told them they weren't valid reasons. Your projecting your own bs into your child's friends.
Ofc all estranged parents aren t npd. The thought that a friend was able to convince your child sounds weird. It s impossible to have a relationship w anyone & a 3rd person brainwashes them. Now i don t get why you should have npd specifically to be estranged. Either your child has some issue & you didn t communicate or you aren t aware of what abuse is. It isn t just physical violence. Idk what happened but saying a 3rd person manipulated could be the easy solution. If you have npd or other pd or neurodiversity there s lack of insight so maybe you just can t see.
Yeah, maybe the spouse of a child could isolate them, making them estranged from their parents, but a friend? Sounds like whoever is apart of these situations that is blaming the friend of the child is coping very hard because that is very doubtful to say the least.
You are speaking of people with narcissist traits. People with NPD can't heal and nearly everyone knows this. The damage is too deep. And at least one of the parents of a person with NPD usually has NPD themselves.
@minoozolala - I’m a clinical psychologist who specializes in assessing, diagnosing, and treating NPD. My content is based on both the clinical/empirical literature and my experience working directly with this population and their loved ones. I am not just talking about people with narcissistic traits.
@@healnpd Have you seen people recover? I am frightened. I feel like I should dig myself a hole and avoid any connection.
@@healnpd Yes, I know. But unfortunately you're wrong. Someday you may come to realize this.
@minoozolala - Okay.
@@purplefinch29 I've seen myself recover, I'm watching 3 of my NPDork friends recover. It's been hard for all of us but worth it for all of us.