Pastor's HONESTY About Latter-day Saint Suspicions
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- How can we maneuver suspicions and mistrust in interfaith relationships?
Pastor Jeff and Latter-day Saint, Kurt Francom (Leading Saints Podcast) discuss.
Special thanks to Kurt Francom n from Leading Saints: / leadingsaints
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Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between mainstream Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are Mormons Christians? What do Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormons and non-LDS Christians.
If you enjoyed this conversation, you might enjoy a video Pastor Jeff made answering questions from Latter-day Saints: • Pastor's HONEST Respon...
#LatterDaySaints #interfaith #mormonism
I’m LDS, getting older now. As a teenager in the early 1970s, I never perceived much religious acrimony until one year, probably the 9th grade, I was old enough to run free with all my school friends at the county fair. A preacher had rented a booth in the exhibits building, and he caught the arm of someone in our group of six or seven, pulling us all aside to inquire about our church status. My friends were a mixed bag of denominations. All seemed to pass muster with the preacher, but not me. I was singled out and, not a word out of my mouth, this guy went full hellfire and brimstone, loudly damning me to burn eternally in hell. I shrugged it off without engaging with the attack or contending with the guy. I’m still in touch with many of my childhood friends, but over decades of time I’ve observed some of these friends posting things I feel like they should know better, but reciting the same words this preacher blistered me with. All this is very sad to me, but long ago I decided to never unfriend anyone. I can’t know what path life has taken people over the past 50 years. I feel sad about all this with some level of discomfort, but I still think the world of the people I grew up with and think the world would be a far better place if more people were like them. On a more positive note, I have also experienced a great deal of acceptance and friendship from highly respectable men, strong in their own faith, and mature in years. I deeply value these friendships. But the firebrands are still out there. They’re present in the workplace and in the whispers, I’m certain. And the preacher at the county fair is not, unfortunately, my only bad experience. These things sadden me, particularly to observe how easily slanderous falsehoods arise so easily among those I otherwise share so much. These things make me sad, not angry. I see the same actors poisoning the political acrimony we are experiencing in politics today, by falling into similar poorly thought out attacks that do not come from their own intellect, but which as possessed by the false dichotomies and pre-scripted narratives that prevail today. In short, it is sad when people become part of the problem instead of part of the solution. This is the natural man, not in the spirit of the Lord - “blessed are the peacemakers” - Peace is something the natural man is quick to dismiss and erroneously equate with compromise and sin. For the sake of indulging our own passion and anger, all teachings of Jesus Christ are often forgotten, even by those prosecuting the agenda of another in his name.
@@davidchoate512I admire your efforts to change. You're on the right path.
As a former LDS missionary, the irony in the fear we LDS members have of someone "inviting themselves into our home" is hilarious. I love it when Jeff drags us into his home. I learn a lot.
Really? What have you learned??
@@nonrepublicrat I've learned a lot about evangelical beliefs, and gained clarity on how some of their beliefs align or contrast with mine. I really enjoyed Jeff's discussion about Grace- together with Brad Wilcox's talk. Combining both viewpoints together helped me better understand the Gospel. The way Jeff is able to wrap his head around and summarize entire books of the Book of Mormon is incredible. Coming at it the first time, and from a different viewpoint than mine has actually helped me see/understand concepts in the Book of Mormon that I have missed in many previous readings. Etcetera.
I have understood their belief system better, I guess you could say. I like Jeff. He's a good man. Listening over the past 6 months, except for certain episodes, which were just not for me...has only strengthened me, made me so very grateful for the restoration of all things through a latter day prophet, and thankful for my own earthly father who wanted to know what was missing in our family, and invited the LDS missionaries to teach us. We had a big Bible on a table. It was respected, but the change that came after his conversion, and our family's conversion and baptisms into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was incredible. So much more, more growth, more strength, depth and understanding of an eternal plan made out of love by Him, for us, binding us to Him and to each other. There's nothing greater than that. I hope that will come for others, and for Jeff.😊
@@spencerthomason6558yes, as an evangelical I was surprised to find in the Book of Mormon that it says salvation is by grace (after repentance). ❤
@@GrandmaKnightLife Grace is one of those things that seems so simple, yet is so challenging to explain. We all know we're not saved by faith alone, but neither are we saved by works. But then, why are works important at all if we're saved by grace. It's really hard (for me at least) to articulate. The analogy of the piano teacher is perfect. As it turns out, our beliefs in this area are much closer than many of us thought. ❤️
I love this channel. Getting baptized soon with my wife can’t wait.
What church are you joining?
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@JozeemossThe Pharisees should have known the gospel the most, but they crucified the Savior...because "blasphemy".
Congrats!
Lets be honest, one of the biggest suspisions we have comes because we know many evangelical churches flat out teach "anti-mormon" from their pulpits - they warn people to not talk to missionaries or read their book because "thats how they get you".
We take the opposite approach. Let people learn all they can about as much as they can and make their own decisions. I had a class in institute on christian history. One of our assignments was to read a theological book from another church - not propoganda about that church but written by their church fathers. We didn't debate their theology, discuss where they were "wrong", or compare it to our doctrine. We were just there to learn their point of view.
If that were a two-way street this would be a whole different dynamic.
It’s true that most people don’t care how much you know about something, until they know how much you care. And you guys’ friendship (easily laughing a lot) works really well. I bet the family get togethers are also a lot of fun. Keep it up guys! Great examples for all of us.
i am 28 years old, grew up as an evangelical. on July 29, 2023 i was baptized and became a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. i met with Missionaries for a year and then in April after General Conference i decided to no longer meet with them. in May, on the 17th, i was prompted by the Spirit of God to get baptized. i met and made a new friend, Lana, among the YSAs and she helped me to understand the doctrine of the Church. after weeks of preparing and letting my family and church Pastor know, its was a long couple of weeks. the day of my baptism, i never felt happier, and since then, i am growing, learning, and changing like never before in my faith in Christ Jesus. i bear my testimony that this was God's plan for me. He calls us when the time is right! God bless you, Pastor Jeff. i love your videos!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I'm so happy for you to have joined the church! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Rodra the church doesn’t set you free , Jesus does aka the Truth, and not the jesus some goofy guy with magic glasses hiding behind a sheet in a barn a couple hundred years ago made up.
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
I am LDS and I love hello saints. I have never once felt that Jeff was “preaching” AT me. I love his opinion and insights and believe it or not he has helped me to understand and strengthen my testimony in my own faith. I can see the light of Christ in him my heart swells with love for him and his mission. I can see him trying to understand and work hard to make relationships better between people and also with Christ. Honestly this is the first I have heard that people feel preached at. It’s a matter of perspective. We should all be thinking wow I never thought to think of it that way, instead why are you attacking what I believe. Open your heart, you don’t have to change your beliefs. He’s not trying to change you or convert you, he’s simply trying to have a 2 way conversation. Here’s how I interpret this, tell me how you interpret this. Create friendships. That’s all we want.
@Shallyboldman9843 I think Jeff has been sent to LDS people to establish links where we can work together. Love to all from UK💖
Then why does Jeff always get the last word?
@@richardbrunner5282I don’t know. Maybe because it’s his channel? 😀
@shallys… you obviously didn’t listen to the podcast with some lady … was she ex LDS? … maybe not, but whatever, that was taken down. You say you have never once felt Jeff was preaching at you, Well he was certainly agreeing with the obnoxious person he had on that video, which he clearly realised later that many LDS did not agree with her negative comments about the Church and how Jeff appeared to be encouraging and agreeing with her. Ok … he removed it. I’m glad he did. She was toxic and a side of Jeff I had not seen earlier, was certainly evident.
@@richardbrunner5282 because it’s his channel……?
As a Latter Day Saint I had some evangelical Christian teens who were at raising canes who approached me and offered to say a prayer with me, given the trials in my life at that time I allowed them to pray with me. I think giving each person the opportunity to serve God either by evangelizing or by missionary work is something God wants us to do. I gave these young guys the opportunity to pray with me because that is Gods will. We should be able to come together and pray together and even worship together.
The only problem with that is 99% of Evangelicals hate the LDS church and are determined to destroy it. There are countless thousands of very hostile and vicious videos here on youtube telling their followers that the LDS church is a dangerous cult. Especially those in the southern "bible belt". Also, they have an entirely different definition of God, so you and they are worshiping entirely different Gods. So good luck with your "worship together" thing.
I love this. I agree that we should be able to love and worship together, not harping on the beliefs of the other. We’re all trying to come to Jesus
Pastor Jeff, as an lds man I find you awesome. You obviously know the gospel and Jesus. I've learned so much from you.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This 🙌🏼 The persecution LDS people continuously feel is real. I haven’t really felt it because I live in Utah. I think I have had 3 uncomfortable conversations in my 35 years. BUT, whenever I tell ANY of my friends or family about this channel and how much I LOVE Jeff and his mission and how much I love hearing what Jeff believes and seeing him learn what we believe - I am met with nothing but suspicion and hostility towards the IDEA of this channel. “Watch out. He sounds like a wolf in sheep’s clothing.”
“What’s the end goal? It sounds like he’s trying to lead LDS people away.”
“Mmmm… I don’t buy it. Be careful in what he says.”
Like NOTHING but negative thoughts towards my respect for Jeff and this channel. Everyone in this channel loves Jesus and that’s allll that matters. But the suspicion is so real!
Funny, I’m from Utah (now live in Missouri), and I had a lot of persecution experiences in Utah. From people out of state, and usually Evangelical.
@TWariner Goes to show how anecdotal evidence differs vastly from one another.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
You see it a lot on the LDS reddit too. "Wolf in sheep's clothing." As an atheist, it doesn't affect me to see interfaith conversation, I'm so accustomed at this point to being a member of the one thing that ALL religions sneer at that it's moot to me. The concept of a "wolf" from one religion poaching a "sheep" from another religion's flock is so much less important to me than seeing this kind of peaceful and constructive dialogue. There's always going to be some tension between two differing minds to sway beliefs one way or another. It's up to viewers to be intelligent enough to make their own decisions without fear of eternal retribution.
Tihis was excellent! We need to care for eachother as children of God and develop friendship even when conversion is not the goal.
wonderful converation. I wish I had been able to have access to your channel as I was preparing to serve my mission. It would have helped me in so many ways better relate to and understand evangelical beliefs. Thanks for making content to help shine light on better ways to connect and see the beauty of each others faith traditions.
Born and raised in Utah, amongst my own LDS people, I’ve had zero interactions with evangelical people. Just last year I got a new neighbor and she is evangelical. She’s much like you, very calm very kind very complementary. Neither of us are trying to “save” the other. We are both just loving the experience of getting to know each other’s differences. 😊
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hi. Not an LDS subscriber here. Years ago my best friend and roommate in college was LDS. I asked her to tell me about Mormonism. I just wanted to hear about it and not be converted. I was raised Lutheran and felt pretty strong about my faith. She gave me her little sisters Sunday school book and the Book of Mormon. It wasn’t for me and she was disappointed about that. However we were very close friends. We drifted apart when I got married, moved and had a child. She moved to California. A couple of years later we met. She decided the church wasn’t true and therefore God wasn’t real either. I asked, did you give up on Jesus too? She had and was now a Buddhist. I felt very sad. I asked why she hadn’t talked to her LDS friends or her Bishop about her faith doubts. They told her to pray and listen for the answer. Oh it’s so frustrating when it feels like God isn’t listening to us and doesn’t answer in the way we expect. I have been interested in the LDS since then. I’m still a church going Lutheran woman who has been interested in other churches and faiths for years. Personally I think it’s my relationship with Jesus, faith and grace but not a church. Jeff keep sharing your curiosity and respect for The Church of Latter Day Saints. God bless you.
I think I’ve had an epiphany, suspicions are developed when any group is isolated. When we stay inside our “box” it’s easier to think others are against you. I grew up in the north east and in such a diverse area that we weren’t concerned with our differences. I went to first communions and bas mitzvahs. I’m glad I was exposed to so many different ideas, I escaped the “box”.
I LOVE THIS COMMENT SO MUCH!!!!!
“I escaped the box” Great statement!!!
Agreed! I grew up in California and have been in Utah for 23 years. In LA, it is so diverse that everyone is accepted. I grew up LDS and felt I was different, yet respected. High school friends never tried getting me to do anything against my beliefs, they just knew I didn't do certain things. Utah has been a different picture for my children.
Comment before watching all of the video: As a member of the LDS faith, my biggest hesitation (suspicion) when engaging with evangelicals is that many are very anxious to tell me I’m going to hell because I’m not a Christian.
I loved this video so much. Basically we all just want to be heard and listened to and loved unconditionally. I believe this IS the way to be a Christian and disciple of Jesus.
I think much less of this disconnect would have happened if transparency had been there from the beginning. It was stated that the journey was to understand everything about the LDS faith. Nothing about sharing or preaching from an evangelical perspective. Maybe we should have assumed it would happen but I didn’t. So for me it felt like a ‘hidden’ agenda. Good to talk this through.
I love the way he said “at least follow Christ, no matter which sect you go to.” My elder went on a mission and her 3 siblings all left the church. One was very angry and carrying the grudges of others and very anti-Mormon. I told her I want her to have a relationship with Christ, and be happy, no matter where or how she worships. Fast forward 3 years, my son is going on a mission, his brother came back to church, and my daughter has a temple date for her own covenants, and took down her anti-Mormon social media. I’m so grateful my trust in God and his timing ended up helping my children to find their own testimonies. I can’t imagine being unkind to anyone with different religious theology than myself
I am LDS and grew up in KS. When I was in Elementary school, I had two classmates tell me I was going to hell for being Mormon. Both came from Evangelical families. There were rumors as well that certain Evangelical churches had “anti-Mormon” classes.
Anyway, these experiences effected me a lot and I hid my beliefs all throughout HS out of fear.
@KrissyMcKnight Sorry for that painful experience ... that's why we are trying to make this a safe space for all of us. Glad you are here.
@@HelloSaintsthanks Pastor Jeff! I love your videos! And I will add that right after HS I attended a Bible study held by some former classmates. We discussed inter faith topics- and these Evangelical girls were some of the most devoted disciples of Christ I’ve ever met. They were kind & asked questions without attacking. I did, and still do, admire them greatly. That experience helped heal some of the fear I used to have, for sure!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss you've responded to multiple people with this statement. You're definition and intent are not referenced scripturally. In fact, Matthew 5: 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also
And, I refer also to this statement from Paul's teacher of the law:
In Acts 5:34-39, Gamaliel, a Pharisee and doctor of the law, advises the council to refrain from harming the apostles. He says, “And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. "
First, you don't define what is right or wrong for God. Second, you're statement fights directly against the sermon on the mount. Third, if it be something of naught it will fail if you leave it alone. Think it through before you speak of heresy, which you cannot define.
"mainstream" Christian heaven as well as catholic heaven is described as living with Jesus for all eternity and being at peace and rest. No progression. This is the terrestrial kingdom as we understand it. Where you live in the presence of the Son, but not the Father, you are at rest, joy and peace for all eternity and where eternal marriage and families and potential for progression do not exist. The only requirement for this kingdom is belief and acceptance of Jesus as your Savior and to have been a good person. So Jeff gets what he wants! However, we as latter day saints understand that there is MORE to the story of "Heaven." And we are just hoping and praying that whether in this life or the next Jeff sees for himself the truth of all things.
Your friendship is inspiring. Some of my dearest friends and family are evangelical. I appreciate when we can celebrate our similarities, and love our differences.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss amen
@@ericabase
God is truth
John 8:
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
It's amazing since how God lives in the truth preserved in his word that he promised he would never take away.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
the pursuit of which leads to enlightening, testable, logical saving faith when truthfully made manifest leads to great and wonderful works. Not submissive blind, illogical acts of obedience and profession. The order matters, Israel literally means "one who contends with God"
One the most straight forward tests the LORD gave us is the test of a prophet.
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Do your prophets pass the test?
@Hello Saints - I would love for you to do an episode with Stephen from MBR, Greg from CWIC, and David Snell from Saints Unscripted, to talk about definitions of words. Because I feel like we’re a lot of the problem between Evangelicals and members of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints get in trouble is that we sometimes have the same word, but use a different definition for it. For instance, what you call holiness, we call exaltation. And what you call saved, we call a testimony. So it would be interesting to get into the nitty-gritty of each definition and really talk about those definitions.
David Alexander needs to have a chat with Jeff also. What David experienced while an evangelical has left him with great suspicion of all evangelicals when I suspect that many are not like what he experienced.
@@jonny9998 I don’t think David Alexander is ready to have that chat. He is very hurt by the lies told to him for so many years. I think he feels hurt that he didn’t receive the gospel sooner. And I think there’s a lot of things that he needs to work out with the Lord before he will be ready to have that conversation.
@@jonny9998 and I’m not saying that evangelicals meant to lie to him, but he was able to discover the lies. It is a difficult thing when you feel you’ve been lied to your entire life. I’ve been through a faith crisis and I know what that feels like so I know that it will take him time before he will come to realize it.
@zionmama150 hahahahahahah "what you call holiness, we call exaltation, what you call saved, we call a testimony" You clearly have no idea what those terms mean to us Latter-day Saints, let alone what they mean to Evangelicals. Latter-day Saints are constantly saying, "get a testimony or have a testimony." Show me anywhere in the scriptures where there is an injunction to "get a testimony or have a testimony." The definition of testimony is, "an oral or written declaration of what someone knows." Testimony doesn't exist until someone testifies. Did Alma say to the Zoramites, "gather round here and let me teach you how to 'get a testimony'"? Of course not! He said, "gather round and let me teach you how to get faith and knowledge." Did Jesus ever say to his apostles, "O ye of little testimony?" lol Is the first principle of the gospel a testimony of Jesus Christ? No, it's FAITH in Jesus Christ. Let's not pretend we know the definition of words used by other faiths when we get our own definitions all mangled up. I guarantee you that if you got an Evangelical scholar and an LDS scholar together, they would NEVER conclude that "what you call holiness, we call exaltation and what you call saved, we call a testimony."
@@bobrussell8339 literally Alma did say to the Zoramites in Alma 32 how to “gain a testimony” but he used metaphorical language of planting seeds of faith… which is the same thing. We receive the Holy Spirit witnessing with our Spirit. Revelation 19:10 tells us that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. So Testimony is synonymous with faith. False testimonies are not testimonies, for they are false. Therefore if a person declares Jesus but does not show it in action they are mere hypocrites.
That said, why do you delight in being rude about it. You can ask questions and have a greater impact on people by educating them in kind ways than by mocking them in your pride of mind showing off how much more you think you know than them
Alright - so here is an example of my beef. During one video when you "Reacted" to the BOM. You pointed out some things that you considered anachronisms. One of those things was the phrase "Land of Jeruselem". Did you come across this by reading it? (Which would be perfectly fine). Or did you already know that information from an anti-mormon type book and pretend to react to it as if you read it for the first time to sow seeds of doubt. Having read some of those books early in my conversion, I recognised the questions. That got my suspicions up. I then posted a reply on the video showing where that phrase "Land of Jeruselem" came from. Many people responded positively, but you did not respond. This got me wondering. I know you are not seeking to convert to the LDS faith, but are you at all interested in the answers to the questions you pose? or is the goal to place seeds of doubt? There is a big difference between the two. Aside from that, I enjoy the inter-faith stuff.
god forbid you should actually doubt. god forbid you should ask questions about your faith and it's doctrines. God forbid you listen to any other opinion than the offical LDS dogma. That would just be the scariest thing.
You know nothing about me... and you seemed to miss the point entirely. Simply be honest about your intentions. Your intentions, for example, seem obvious enough.
@@dreamfire5210unfortunately I looked at the beginning of his video on the Book of Alma before reading that section that mentioned Jerusalem. I stopped the video and thought I'm not going to finish the video until I read the whole book of Alma. Finally finished reading the book of Alma and am working through the video and my notes in the margins to compare. I made note of all the anachronisms he did so far (except a reference to Hebrews since the BoM mentioned the reference in the notes) and way more. I have listened to a lot of anti-Mormon stuff, but none on the BoM itself. So I think it's a pretty natural for a Protestant to notice it's written as Jerusalem and not Bethlehem. Would you read the Quran and not notice that the Trinity is described as the Father, Son, and Mary? I think you would notice, even if "Islamaphobes" also pointed it out online. That doesn't make the seeming dissonance invalid just because many people notice the same thing independently.
@@valeried7210 Understood, and if that is the case, I have no problem with him pointing it out. Again, it comes down to intent. Is he doing it to sow doubt or because he wants to understand the answers? "Fighting critisism with curiousity"
@@dreamfire5210 I think he stated pretty clearly that he will still explain the gospel from his point of view and maybe some of the problems he sees (he's obviously going to have problems if he hasn't joined the LDS faith) but is more than open to hearing other perspectives and explanations of how he has got it wrong and actually wants to hear what LDS think and what they believe and what's important to them. The purpose is not to sow doubt. It may cause doubting I suppose if someone thinks his perspective makes more sense and they had never heard that perspective before.
I could do what he does in person with someone, but I cannot do it online without a dialogue. He does give a good example for evangelicals like me to dial it back 🙂 because I find LDS beliefs to be deeply problematic the more I understand them and it's hard not to get fired up about it. ☺️
It’s all about Christ and what he did for us….in my knowledge, he said, “Come follow me”, and showed us the way to eternal bliss.
Love this conversation. Having been on both sides of the conversation, being confronted by an evangelical in my experience always warranted a certain reaction from me as a member. Now, as an evangelical, I am given that same reaction when I speak with others of the LDS faith.
I think something lost on us as humans having this earthly experience is that we expect opposing views to be hostile. People can exist on all sides with experiences and firm understandings of teachings outside of what their current faith is and conversations like this build those bridges instead of adding more walls and misconceptions. Thank you.
@erikgroves - I love your comment and perspective on things. Personally, if I was invited to a BBQ by my LDS friends, I would definitely go. And, if the LDS missionaries happened to be there, I would think it was cool that my friends thought enough of me to want to share their faith with me. So, I don’t see a problem with it on either side. I’m reminded of the Bible verse in 1 Peter 3:15 where it says, ‘But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,’. I think anyone that knows Jeff knows that he is all about showing gentleness and respect in his conversations about faith. That’s what I appreciate so much about his channel and channels like those of CWIC media on the LDS side.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Jeff, I appreciate this type of dialog and discussion from both sides. I am what I consider a faithful member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint and about 10 years ago or so I was befriended by an evangelical pastor, someone I now consider a dear friend. Through similar conversations as you are having we have both edified one another and have grown our faith in Christ. My friend has, in a very Christ-like sort of way (well mostly), challenged my paradigm, my faith, and what my views of the doctrine of Christ is and I have grown and developed all of those in my life. I have changed some of my views and felt closer to Christ by doing so. I am no apologis just someone who tries to study. I love to listen to Christian radio and love the call in and ask questions programs. I would love to see how you view these other Protestant pastors messages and answers to questions and if you do or don't agree with their perspectives. Thanks for doing this God Bless your efforts and welcome to Utah!
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
You may not see this comment with so many comments, but I just want to thank you for the interaction. I am LDS with a strong testimony of Christ and the church I belong to. I really enjoy hearing from someone, who is a pastor of another faith, who doesn't want to condemn me or my faith. I think that is huge. I enjoy learning the "why" you don't see the same as us, and where you believe we are similar. Your approach makes me feel like my belief is relevant in the religious discussion of broad faith. You have given a place for the LDS church in the discussion of Chritianism, where many others turn us down from even entering that discussion. I hope you and your family are warmly welcomed to your new neighborhood, and I hope you have continued success in your endeavor of faith discussion. My son had a faith crisis while I was an LDS bishop. At his request I took him to other denominations for him to explore. I learned alot from the experience, and saw how good people of other faiths were. Thanks for sharing the experience and journey you are on.
@davidnimmer1010 I see you ... thank you for the kind words. Let's keep going!
It wasn't until I started focusing on my relationship with Christ that I started to figure out where religion tied into that beautiful relationship I was striving to build.
The world is full of evil...it is so important to encourage love for Christ no matter what faith people choose to go by.
It will get sorted after this life.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hello Pastor Jeff! I recently started reading the book "A Case For The Book of Mormon" by Ted R. Callister, and I want to invite you to read it, too. I really like it so far. I hope that you will, too! Thanks for your kindness and willingness to seek to understand. It is something I want to work better on myself
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Thank you for expressing your concern, I appreciate it. I know that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, just as the Bible. In 1 Nephi 6:4 (I think) it says that Nephi wrote to persuade people of the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. He was directed by the Lord.
I hope you have a nice day :) I'm so glad you love the Bible. Add to your knowledge if you wish!
@@ashlyncrane8992
God is truth
John 8:
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
It's amazing since how God lives in the truth preserved in his word that he promised he would never take away.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
the pursuit of which leads to enlightening, testable, logical saving faith when truthfully made manifest leads to great and wonderful works. Not submissive blind, illogical acts of obedience and profession. The order matters, Israel literally means "one who contends with God"
One the most straight forward tests the LORD gave us is the test of a prophet.
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Do your prophets pass the test?
In the 90’s in Arizona I had a friend that was evangelical and she would say ya you know there weren’t horses in BofM times, there were no steel swords and all the talking points they are taught to try and make us doubt. When I didn’t respond multiple times, she says well I have realized when Jesus returns he is going to see us all as followers.
I'd have to look up the info, but there was a long period of time there were no horses in the America's. Research it for yourself if you wish. Quite fascinating.
@@stevenrgates over the years they have found a number of horse bones in archeological digs but they threw them out thinking horses didn’t exist in pre-columbian period but now they are finding that isn’t true. As for steel they have found that as well.
@ Wendy - "when Jesus returns." I know that most LDS believe that when Jesus returns, many of those accepting and bowing the knee to Him WON'T all be Mormons. I am about 100% sure that Pastor Jeff will be one of those bowing his knee at Jesus' feet.
You guys are good men.
I fully embrace what is happening here. Keep it up, Pastor Jeff!
Amen!
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I am LDS. After two or three of your videos, I realised what you were up to. "Understanding" the Saints is a front for gently converting them to your brand of Christianity. I won't criticise you for trying to convert us, after all, we've been doing it for decades. But at least we're up front about it.
Everyone’s trying to convince everyone all the time. Your comment just now is trying to convince others to a certain point of view. That doesn’t mean the conversation isn’t worth having :) If we expect Paster Jeff to just sit down and accept everything he hears with no question, inquiry or pushback, what kind of conversion is that? The point is participation. That’s just my perspective. On that same note, I think people voicing these concerns is perfectly valid. But it gets dangerous when we just dismiss someone as different and not worth engaging with.
@alantomlinson5740 Most lds church members have a testimony of our church, the prophet, the book of Mormon, the priesthood authority ect. They do not leave.
@@janice2992 I know, but Pastor Jeff is playing the long game.
You can only guess about his INTENT. The EFFECT is twofold though: firstly, yes its a long game approach to bringing souls to Jesus but secondly he is also building bridges between the two faiths.
I think Jeff genuinely values the bridge building but I'm sure he's also happy to bring anyone within Mormonism who hasn't found Jesus or has fallen away into a surety of their salvation and deeper relationship with Christ of course why wouldn't he want this?
I don’t view evangelicals with suspicion. Mostly just Pastor Jeff.
Everything you are saying is gold to me. This is exactly how I feel and have wished conversations like this would take place. I do have my guard up a bit though because I know there is still an element of not really knowing you personally. So I can't really know for certain if what you say is really how you feel. But I hope it is! :)
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss explain
@@lizkt
God is truth
John 8:
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
It's amazing since how God lives in the truth preserved in his word that he promised he would never take away.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
the pursuit of which leads to enlightening, testable, logical saving faith when truthfully made manifest leads to great and wonderful works. Not submissive blind, illogical acts of obedience and profession. The order matters, Israel literally means "one who contends with God"
One the most straight forward tests the LORD gave us is the test of a prophet.
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Do your prophets pass the test?
I think it’s normal and natural for Jeff to tell us about his perspective. I think he’s being very kind to the folks who are throwing stones or who are suspicious of him. Let’s keep the interfaith dialogue going!
PS- Jeff is a great example to me of a disciple of Jesus Christ. Just because I disagree with him doctrinally on some things doesn’t stop either of us from having a personal relationship with Christ. (Isn’t that why we’re often so hurt by evangelicals, because they tell us that we don’t have a relationship with Christ because we don’t believe in the trinity?) Christ’s character is made plain in the NT, and we all know how a follower of Jesus acts, no matter what religion they belong to.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss it’s a good thing the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not fictional 😉.
@@chancebozeman5171
Amen, God is truth
John 8:
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
It's amazing since how God lives in the truth preserved in his word that he promised he would never take away.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
the pursuit of which leads to enlightening, testable, logical saving faith when truthfully made manifest leads to great and wonderful works. Not submissive blind, illogical acts of obedience and profession. The order matters, Israel literally means "one who contends with God"
One the most straight forward tests the LORD gave us is the test of a prophet.
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Do your prophets pass the test?
Great road trip conversation! This could be the start of so many jokes . . . “A Protestant pastor and an LDS member go on a road trip . . .”
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss So, in this instance, who is the blasphemer?
@@Mounty621
The one who's prophets fail the test.
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him
For years, until very recently, our church spent millions of dollars advertising the “I’m a Mormon” campaign. Billboards, signs on public transit, videos, TV commercials, etc. And now, we get instantly offended when nonmembers like Jeff call us Mormons? Really?
Right!? The offense of being called “Mormon” actually bothers me. Like, how cool is Mormon?? He’s freaking awesome! I love being associated with him. I’ve always told people, it’s not offensive, it’s just inaccurate.
@@nicoleterry5105 It’s a good teaching moment to tell someone about the true name of the church and why it’s important, but I have never seen it as a discriminatory thing. People outside of the church call us Mormons because we called ourselves Mormons.
Has an LDS member literally told you they were offended that you called them a “Mormon”? If that is true it is unfortunate, but not characteristic of how we all generally feel. We would just like people to realize that even though we love and respect Mormon, he is not the focus of our faith. Jesus Christ is the focus of our faith.
I am 68 years old - born into the Church. I have always been proud and humble (both) to be able to be called a Mormon boy. After identifying myself as a Mormon for so many years, it is actually foreign thinking for me to NOT call myself a Mormon. I have always found the name to be a great conversation starter allowing me to tell the other person that we actually believe in and worship Jesus Christ, and not an ancient prophet named Mormon.
@@JeffreySmith-if6eyyes I have been chewed out in the comments section of this channel for using the term Mormon. "First of all, we aren't Mormons, we are members of the church of..." I've started typing LDSaints instead and haven't seen any heat over use of that term. But it's silly of course as you and the OP point out.
I am a committed member of the Church, but have to admit that it is rather rich for members of our Church accuse others of being sneaky. I have seen too many examples of people inviting people over to their house for a BBQ and SURPRISE!, "we also invited the missionaries to join us" - or similar other religious trap doors. Maybe the reason people are suspicious of Jeff is because we are projecting ourselves into his actions.
Excellent observation.
Yes. I went to a Christmas open house where the LDS hosts had invited both LDS and non-LDS family and friends. The missionaries just so happened to be invited as well. And don't forget the Japan Tokyo mission birthday parties. Members had birthday parties and invited non-LDS family and friends where there just so happened to be missionaries present. They were pleased to give a "first discussion" as part of the party.
@erikgroves - I love your comment and your perspective on things. Personally, as a non-LDS Christian, if I was invited to a BBQ by my LDS friends, I would definitely go. And, if LDS missionaries happened to be there too, I would think it was cool that my LDS friends thought enough of me to want to share their faith with me. So, I don’t see a problem with it on either side. I’m reminded of the Bible verse in 1 Peter 3:15 where it says, ‘But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give a reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,’. I think anyone that knows Jeff, knows he is all about showing gentleness and respect. That’s what I appreciate so much about his channel and channels like Greg’s of CWIC media, that they are able to have faith conversations in an open and loving way.
I worked with an LDS sister when I was 23. She invited me to dinner one Sunday and the missionaries were there. She asked me to visit with them while she cooked dinner. I joined after discussions and it has been 56 years since. I thank the Lord every day for this gospel.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hey, lds here.
Pastor Jeff, thank you for this video. It’s a good one.
I just want to let you know I receive a lot of hate from my fellow Christian’s. I am told every single day I am in a cult, going to hell, and my faith is invalid.
There seems to be an attempt to categorize the God I worship as some evil, weak, powerless, created, sex crazed, racist meaningless being. Which not only is wrong, it’s mess up.
I could even say something like “Jesus loves you”, and I get in response, “to bad you don’t know Jesus” or something.
I’ve been told by a few Christian’s they wished my ancestors were killed off at the conception of Mormonism, so that the faith wouldn’t exist today. So I wouldn’t exist today. They wished for the genocide of my people.
I know people who wish me harm for the simple fact of my beliefs, not being Christian….. the only thing stopping them is the law.
Many people have made a big living off destroying the faith of Latter Day Saints. To say that we are hesitant and have our guard up is an understatement.
Just some additional content is good to have.
Thank you for the doors you are opening on both sides.
Edit; misspelling
This is one of my favorites to watch!
Thank you both!
Temple Recommend question that may be contributing to the suspicion arising from some Latter Day Saints: 6:41 Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
Lets say I support the doctrine of god was once a man who exalted to godhood and if I do all necessary things I too can be exalted to godhood, organize my own planet and inhabit that planet with spirit babies my wife (or wives) created. Am I supporting a doctrine contrary to the LDS church?
If that is the reason people need to learn how Joseph smith dealt with other faiths. He allowed them a voice. He was friends with some, he let them in his home. He let them preach. Joseph showed through action that we can learn about other faiths and viewpoints without supporting incorrect doctrine. If we don’t know what others believe, especially if wrong, how can we respond with the truth? How can we know what our children might experience. Further the church frequently goes to inter faith dialog conferences. Don’t let that question be interpreted to mean don’t respect other people’s beliefs.
no, 100% in line with mormon teaching@@jessea2871
I think you are doing great work, and I hope you will continue!
In my opinion, when you make videos based on your readings of the Book of Mormon, you ignore some of the most important parts. You often pass over the most important teachings of the book: the doctrine of Jesus Christ as taught before and after his coming. As I understand the matter, you are not able to seriously consider this content because you believe it to be impossible that such specific details could be known about Jesus before the time of the New Testament. To not engage with the Christological doctrine that is the central to the Book of Mormon is very perplexing to a Latter-day Saint. How do you hope to understand the book if you do not take seriously its most important claims? I am not saying that you have to believe these claims, as that is a matter of investigating the book in the pursuit of new faith, and you have clearly stated that is not your intent.
In my opinion, dismissing much of the doctrinal content of the Book of Mormon, while presenting your understanding of the same in a series of RUclips videos is similar to authoring a college thesis on Les Miserables without covering the themes of justice and mercy. True, you can cover all of the plot summaries and characters, but without a discussion of justice and mercy, the thesis feels empty somehow.
Another comparison would be like visiting The Louvre Museum in Paris and observing the amazing architecture of the building, while ignoring many of the paintings. The Louvre used to be a castle, and is built on the Seine river. In the basement, remnants of the original fortress are visible. In other words, the museum itself is worthy of serious study. However, you will miss much by focusing on the windows, and doors, and the grounds and the river, while disregarding the artwork contained in the museum - the masterworks of Da Vinci, Gericault, Vermeer, Rembrandt, and countless others.
This was a beautiful way to respond to a recent unkind video I saw. As an LDS member I was sad and embarrassed for the video and the suspicion it vented. And here comes Jeff with love and humility as a comeback. You are lovely, and I am sorry for those who are not ready in their faith to understand.
As a question, if I know the Savior and Know repentance and the love of God, would you say even as an LDS I am saved? Maybe the Lord will teach us more about the little that dose divide us, and that little bit of misunderstanding of his doctrine would not actually condemn either side. I know no one knows his plan with perfect understanding, but we try to follow.
I asked my evangelical friend this same question. She told me No because I believe in the WRONG Jesus. I explained I believe in the Jesus in the New Testament the one who is Jehovah in the Old Testament, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Jesus that was born of the Virgin Mary, who was crucified for the sins of the world on Calvary’s cross. The same Jesus Christ who was resurrected three days later and ate fish on the shore of Galilee with his apostles. She said I believe in a created Jesus.
I told my friend I am not concerned about her salvation. I know she believes in Jesus Christ and I know Christ is merciful and loves ALL His children. He has made a way for all who choose Him to live with Him in Heaven.
Condemning people to hell is not good for friendships. Not even Christ condemned during His ministry on earth.
@amytodd - you sound like a very kind person. As a non-denominational Christian, I believe the Bible says that being saved actually has nothing to do with the church we attend but rather whether we have a personal relationship with Jesus. So, just like in Ratatouille when they say ‘anyone can cook’, a Christ-follower can come from anywhere. The gospel (good news) message of the Bible is very simple: 1) We’ve all sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), 2) The wages of our sin is that we deserve death (Romans 6:23). 3) But God made Jesus who knew no sin, to be sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21), 4) So whoever believes in Him (Jesus) will not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16), and 5) If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 10:9).
Notice it doesn’t say you can’t be saved if you belong to a particular church. Likewise, it doesn’t say you have to belong to a particular church organization to be saved. Let me know if this helps at all with your question and God bless!
I can admit when I was wrong. Sorry Pastor Jeff. Thank you for clarifying! I disagree with quite a few of your takes on spiritual matters, but you’re my brother and I love you man.
I really appreciate your thoughtful faith and your bridge building. You sir are a good man!
Man, I wish I knew you guys were coming down. I love having respectful and loving conversations with fellow christians. I am A member of the church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. And I am passionate about this topic and having incredible conversations. Please let me know or get my contact info and let’s sit down next time you are out here @hello saints…
I have a testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus lives and loves us. He calls modern day prophets. His priesthood is restored.
18:42 yep! I feel the same way. I would rather have a person believe in Christ even if it is Trinitarian than be atheist because they will still have that rock to help them in life. A life without God is Nihlism and hopeless. I have bern through a faith crisis in my life. And Jesus saved me from that.
Wow , that says a lot about what you believe about the Trinity
Whether you like it or not , the Trinity is true and God is triune!
God is 1 being in 3 persons. The father is God , the son is God, and the holy spirit is God.
One God!!!
🙏☦️❤️
@@Compulsive-Elk7103 God is a title representing three persons. God has a Body of flesh and bone and so does the Son. The Holy Spirit is a personage of flesh. Trinitarian thinking is based on the apostate churches that were drifting away and “leaving their first love” as it is put in Revelation 2. Parts of the trinity are true, and parts are not. They patterned the Trinity after the Greek God who had no body parts or passions. The Trinity is much more pagan than the God of the Jews who spoke of divine beings and knew there to be “elohim” or “the forces” or “multiple divine beings united in cause and purpose”. Jesus praying for this in the intercessory prayer is one proof of that, in that he prayed that we might be one with them as Jesus was with the Father. That word “one” is used from Deuteronomy all the way to the end of revelations and does not mean the number one, but unity. Therefore, we do worship ONE God. A united God who is 3 persons. The Son being made in the image of His Father just as Seth was made in the image of Adam. And these two bodies of flesh were shown to Stephen as he died. Acts ch 7 is where you can read the account that Christ stood on the Father’s right hand. Stephen was shown this vision as they stoned him to death. Jesus when he was resurrected had not yet ascended to the Father but appeared to Mary to let her know he would ascend to “my God and your God.”
Hello Jeff! My name is Trever. I hope that you and your family are settling into Utah. I live about 3 hours north of S.L.C.
This is the first time I have ever commented on youtube so please be patient with me. I have watched all the hello saint videos and really enjoy your spirit. You definitely represent Christ like attributes. I was wondering if I may ask you a question? What is your understanding of what we will do for eternity if we are saved and are in Heaven? Of course we will be in God's rest and we will be praising Jesus Christ. Do you have any thoughts of what else we might do? Thank you..
Trever
Hi Trever, are you open to hearing other non-lds views on heaven other than Jeff's? I didn't want to barge in with my views without your consent. Blessings, Chris
A question for Pastor Jeff: has anyone suggested you listen to an address by Neal A. Maxwell? He was a theological heavyweight within the LDS culture.
8:38 Don’t stop Jeff! I love learning your theology and you share it in a non-threatening way. Thank you for your efforts.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss Not even sure who your comment is directed at. But regardless, I assume you hold that your beliefs are gospel and biblical and all others are blasphemous. I won’t try to disabuse you of that. I’m very solid in my own beliefs but recognize the sincerity and convictions of those of others and hope to have enough humility and holy envy to learn from others. I believe unlike the angry and offensive street preachers, Jeff is using Paul’s softer approach spoken of in 1 Corinthians 9 that he “might by all means save some.” You might consider that approach as well.
@@jerry_phillips
1 Corinthians 9:
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
What you don't know is I was born and raised in the LDS church. Read the Book of Mormon through plenty, graduated from seminary, even got a mission call. Didn't go because I didnt then and still don't believe in putting works before faith. The doctrine that I would be preaching was not logical or tangible. Faith is logical, faith is tangible in the natural world, as well as the giving you a confirmation through the spirit. The only witness that is preached from the LDS church is the spiritual while leaving the other two of the three witnesses of our LORD out. Faith/Gospel is Logical, Tangible & Spiritual.
Matthew 22:37 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Salvation is though saving faith which produces works. A false profession of faith does not produce works. And works put before saving faith does not produce saving faith. The order matters. If the first of the ten Commandments is broken
Exodus 20:
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
then salvation is in jeopardy. Works don't matter if it's for made up Gods that cannot save. Only a cult would say do blind works and call it faith when actually it is prideful arrogance. Faith is enlightenment not blindful obedient action.
John 8:
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Pastor Jeff, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts about Mormon Stories Podcast recent episodes with Bible scholar Dan McClellan.
He should do a episode with John Dehlin...
@@timnewman1172that's too far for Jeff. He is trying to appeal to the LDS crowd that's normally too sensitive/defensive to discuss topics and people labeled "antimormon". He'd lose his audience if he brought on John, maybe Dan though...
I met those adversarial evangelicals on my mission as well. They would invite us to their house simply to bash.
Jeff, you're I very interesting person. I find that your faith shares are great. It means more to me showing your honesty that would be lacking if you didn't.
I’m ex LDS living in UT; now part of the 2% that fits the biblical Christian way. Evangelicals are definitely in the minority here; and I find it hilarious that some people feel so attacked by your message.
I think what you are doing is way better than what Jeff Durbin does. (Bless that man’s heart, I just don’t think his approach is as loving as it could be).
I’m interested in what your plans are here; what are your goals and do you need help?
Christ gives us grace, and we are trying to follow his example, so in our small way we should be gracious to others. That means trying to give people the benefit of the doubt and hoping they have good motives.
Honestly my biggest question is how does science fit into religion?
I know a lot of Christianity is... skeptical, but as far as I'm aware, the LDS church emphasizes that science is a part of God's power, we just don't understand it, and that we can learn more about the rules God operates by through experimentation, and learning these rules ourselves.
I've always thought that it doesn't matter if God created the rules, or if those rules always existed beforehand, God is not a God of chaos, so God chooses to follow rules on how the universe, whether He created them or not.
Science is just exploring the universe that God has created. Its making observations, asking questions, experimenting, and drawing conclusions. Religion is a dedication to a set of beliefs that are accepted as true based on faith and tradition.
As such, science and religion sometimes put tension on one another. When the science is clear religion fades or adjusts to fit the new scientific knowledge (but this usually takes some generations). When the science isn't clear religion stands to challenge it (TRADITION!!).
Science "fits in" as the revealer or the grounding force of religion. Religion's ability to pass down false beliefs decreases as the body of scientific evidence grows against it. For example, thunder storms used to be an expression of the wrath of the gods in many pagan religions. We now understand the cause of thunderstorms and that belief no longer carries much weight in most religious groups today. Ie if your house is struck by lightening you don't believe God is punishing you -- you believe your house was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It's good that we have science to keep our religious traditions in check and it's good that our religious traditions force science to produce clear, duplicatable, undeniable results. It's not one or the other as many think but we need both.
Just my two cents I hope it helps. I am a Christian and science has yet to undeniably disprove Christ as my Savior.
I've watched a lot of your videos. At first I really liked them. Then as I watched more, I'll admit to feeling suspicious :) I saw this one come up and thought-I don't even want to go there. But I kept getting the feeling I should watch it. So I did, and it was vastly different than I thought it would be, in a positive way. Thanks for this! You guys had a great conversation and both of you were so genuine. I think both Latter-day Saints and Evangelicals have a lot to learn, and the best starting place is to acknowledge that. As a Latter-day Saint, I know I have made many missteps in how I interact with those of other faiths, and I'd like to think that through honesty and humility, I've grown and hopefully will continue to grow. Good job guys, I like this one! PS I'm not Daniel, I'm the lady with him :)
Excellent conversation. Learning to hear each other is crucial if we are to become one as Christ prayed we would.
@hellosaints in your interview with The Stick of Joseph you talked about the Book of Mormon readings becoming more of a hindrance than help. Might I suggest going through the Sacrament hymns as a possible topic as the are the most regular teaching on the core of the Gospel that we do.
I love this!
I agree that people have “thrown stone” at you unfairly and I believe they are in the wrong. Suspicions are okay but not judgment especially without truly knowing your heart. I have tried to assume your heart is in the best place, which is what we should all do with each other.
Thank you for building bridges. We have so much in common.
I love that Jeff reminds us that it's not about religion, it's about relationship. Religion, however, is essential to enhance the relationship, help us understand and know our Savior, and strengthen one another in that relationship. If the religion doesn't enhance and help you grow your relationship with Him, it's not a true religion.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Honestly, I think we should focus more on relationships and building friendships.
The more we get into the weeds of doctrine the more we're going to realize that we just arrive at an impasse. Evangelicals see things through a lens of biblical exegesis and LDS see through a lens of modern revelation - so every discussion of doctrine seems like it leads to the same place -- do you accept Joseph Smith as a prophet? And did he receive the priesthood and keys of the kingdom as outlined in D&C 110?
Seems far more productive to respect each other and see how we can work together to bring about good.
if your focus is not on Jesus, then ... why even bother? If you want to respect each other, start with Jesus, and stay with Jesus. When you have Jesus, who needs anything else ?
Amen! It really boils down to that. Joseph Smith was a prophet!
@@SeekingTruth-y5kagree! We love Jesus and want to serve him. Jesus above all commanded us to to live God and love our fellow man. This is what we should focus on in interfaith relationships.
My point is when we get into the weeds of comparing doctrine like the trinity, baptism, faith/works, etc. the doctrines that Evangelicals hold dear were worked out and passed down to them through the centuries of interpretation of the Bible. Doctrines for the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS were given by revelation to Joseph Smith and are clear if you accept that revelation, prophets, and the Book of Mormon.
In my opinion, any discussion of doctrine will ultimately lead to the same place - do you accept Joseph Smith as a prophet or not? Because if you do, then we are speaking about revelation and those doctrinal questions become clear. If you don't then you can discuss what the Bible means by a particular verse etc. But I see all of the time a Christian trying to make a doctrinal argument to an LDS out of the Bible. We love the Bible, but revelation informs our understanding of the Bible. Just like the revelation of Jesus informed Paul's understanding of Torah. So it's kind of a useless endeavor imo.
@@Costplus2255 Yes, just a prophet, NOT The Savior.
Yes, it is not religion that saves people, but Jesus. I could see the hesitation in his friend's face when Jeff said that. LDS have always been told that they are the one true church that can save people with ordinances and temple rituals. I do think that baptism is important because it represents the old man dying and being resurrected with Christ and Christ showed us this so it is in the Christian churches as well, but the stuff about becoming gods and goddesses and needing to do new rituals after Jesus fulfilled the OT is going into a worrisome zone. The purpose of the OT temple rituals was to fortell of Jesus coming but then he came and there was no more need to continue such things, but now we look to Christ in everything we do to know how to live our lives. But it seems to me that the LDS temple is all about a formula to exhalt the self which I don't think we ought to be seeking. It is the humble and penitent and those who serve their fellow man who will be exhalted. I think Christ can decide who ought to be exhalted on his own.
Question for Jeff, Where are the Peter and Pauls of today with direct communication with Christ?
spoiler alert: the ancient Peter and Paul didnt have any direct communication with god either lol
They exist. Actual saints. Guess what. They aren't in Utah. If they were then they wouldn't have waited until the late 70's (and uncle Sam breathing down their necks) to consider African Americans to be people worthy of communion with God
Great video. Thanks Jeff!
Hi Pastor Jeff. I haven't seen many of your videos, but from what I have seen I appreciate what you are doing and would never have considered what you are doing as "preaching AT" anyone. I don't think there is anything wrong with exploring someone else's faith while at the same time pointing out issues you might find with it, and discussing where and why you disagree. I think thoughtful criticism of any and all religions, ideas, perspectives, and philosophies is important. How else are we to come to a firm understanding of truth and reality? If an idea, doctrine, or philosophy is true, I believe it should hold up under scrutiny, investigation, and criticism. I always considered myself LDS until recently. Right now I am simply trying to follow God's path for me. For now, I think all that really means is loving those around me, staying in connection with God, helping those in need in meaningful ways, being honest with myself and others, telling the truth, building meaningful relationships, and living in a meaningful, purposeful way. I still attend the LDS church but I also attend other churches. I have many questions, concerns, doubts, and disagreements about LDS doctrine and even Christianity, but I'm hoping God will first and foremost fill me with love as I sort all of these questions out. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that, as far as I can tell, I think we all have an extremely limited understanding of the truth and I think the only way we can all ever hope to come to a mutual understanding of it is to discuss with, question, and offer thoughtful criticisms of our differing perspectives. I think it's a painful process but I think it's necessary. I see your channel as one way we can engage in that process. So I just wanted to thank you for that and hope you keep it up.
Pastor Jeff, because of the LDS history and people spreading untruths about us, it is easy to be suspicious. But...if LDS people decide to be persuaded to another faith or suspiciousof you, that's their choice, and that's on them. Don't let their suspicions get to you. Im extremely strong in the teachings of the LDS faith. I love it and all the knowledge it brings. I love that you are exploring our faith. I've heard rumors of suspicion regarding you, but you are right. We have our side, and you have the right to voice yours. I'm delighted that you have been studying the LDS faith and that you felt comfortable enough to move to Utah. Keep up the great work, kiddo. The greatest thing we have in common with you is our love of God. You rock dude.
Hi Jeff,
Thank you for your videos. I’m new to your content and am curious about how you view the eternal soul of an LDS member who dies. Are they with Jesus or in hell? I only ask because I’m having a difficult time understanding how you view them based on your videos. I am interested for educational purposes! Thank you!
Luke 9
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
As long as it stays at that both ways ... everything's peachy. :>)
I still appreciate your efforts. Many are falling back into ranks of casting stones. My 45 year old throwing arm isn’t ready to get back in the game! May I suggest a further study into the Pearl of Great Price after your study of the Book of Mormon? Simply because it answers your concerns with supposed anachronism’s. Just how much do you think Adam knew, or Enoch, or Noah, or Abraham, or Moses?…their WHEN and WHAT of knowing resolves every anachronistic fire alarm before there’s any smoke. Their gospel of Jesus Christ is the same gospel of Jesus Christ restored through Joseph Smith.
I’m still waiting for you to read Matthew 25 and give us your thoughts on it
Love it, great job to both of you. And Greg too, whom I have met as well. I love the conversation.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Please show us a preaching video at your church
You are helping me with a potential inter faith marriage. Please continue your journey your example is so important
As someone with a spouse on the spectrum, so it feels like we have different languages sometimes, please consider how you would navigate all of your values around all parts of life and whether each of your values even allows for interfaith marriage. Coming from different perspectives is so hard, even when he and I have the same faith. Interfaith friendships are different because it isn't becoming one flesh. Aligning yourselves isn't necessary to enjoy conversation and occasionally gatherings.
I married outside my faith. We always focused on the things we had in common spiritually and our love for God and Christ. Over time it blossomed into my husband joining the church and now we are sealed.
Beautiful man...love him so much. So glad I chose to follow what Heavenly Father told me to do and marry him anyway...He was right. The pieces fell into place when my husband was ready.
Great discussion! I'd love to see a discussion like this between Democrats and Republicans 😅
"OH dream weaver I believe you can get me through the night..."
Keep dreaming my friend...
Hi Jeff!
I am new to your videos. Am I right in saying you hold that the LDS faith are a branch of Christianity? Thank you!
So I left Mormonism about a decade ago and there's something that comes up within these discussions that I still just don't understand. Maybe someone can help me. Growing up Mormon, we constantly referred to ourselves as Mormons and it was no big deal. When Joseph Smith was asked if he was a Mormon with a gun to his head, he responded with, "true blue through and through."
When did Mormon become a bad word? As someone who was brought up in the LDS church, I'm truly confused about this.
My bishop told me about this and tbh I can not remember all of it but I think it was because people got it confused with something else like another religion or something. And for some reason people would think we have like 10 wives when they heard Mormon I’m not positive if that’s it and if another LDS could confirm that would be great but I thinks that’s why and as an LDS thank you for asking with respect and not being mean ❤✝️
It's not that its a bad word. The shift to avoid using it came out of the confusion that it caused because the word "Mormon" expresses almost nothing about our beliefs. So many other Christians and non-Christians believed (and many still do as they cling onto the word "Mormon") that we worship someone named Mormon, or worship Joseph Smith because he had something to do with someone named Mormon. Anyone with a basic knowledge of the church knows that that is obviously not the case, but many simply knew us as the "Mormons" and had no idea that that isn't the name of the church. Therefore, there has been a push in recent years to use the actual name of the church, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," as an easy way of conveying the important message of who we worship and what we believe. It's not that there is anything particularly wrong with the word "Mormon," but there is nothing particularly right about it either because it does not convey relevant information.
There is an explanation given by Russel M. Nelson in a conference talk entitled, "The Correct Name of the Church". I'd link it, but I don't think links are allowed in YT comments - google should help, though.
Mormon is not a bad word. But we are not Mormon's church, we are Christ's church. I suspect if Mormon himself were to come down from the heavens, he would be adamant in declaring that this is not his church, but that it is Christ's church. "Mormon" is a nickname which some outside the church first gave us, and over the years some have gone along with it so as to avoid seeming contentious and to give people an easier time than using the full name of the church. But it seems in more recent times there has been a stronger pushback against it, to gives a greater emphasis on Christ, which is entirely appropriate.
I too left Mormonism a decade ago. I remember it was a bad thing to say that we were Christians. When a Christian would ask a Mormon if they were a Christian, the Mormon would say " Oh no I'm not a Christian, I'm a Mormon" This was many many years ago, so I am sure people would deny this, but I lived it!
I’ve really enjoyed this RUclips channel and I’ve learned a lot along the way. As Pastor Jeff has read The Book of Mormon and then given his critique of the various books, it seems he is critical of similarities between teachings in The Book of Mormon and the Bible almost insinuating that Joseph Smith plagiarized Bible stories or teachings. Then later he seems critical where teachings in The Book of Mormon don’t align with his understanding of the Bible. Can’t seem to make him happy one way or the other. Oh well. Keep up the good work. I enjoy your perspective.
Really appreciate what you're doing. Just asking you to consider the sacred nature of 3 Nephi to all of us. Even if you think it is absolute junk scripture invented by Joe Smith, please don't let something like heliocetrism get in the way of Christ the Lord blessing children and the absolute joy of the people experiencing that event. It brings us a lot of hope for the eventual return of Jesus. It is archetypal of His Second Coming. Suspend disbelief long enough to enjoy this chapter of our scripture with us. It's really sacred to us.
Just subscribed. This is GREAT content. As a missionary, I HATED when I could tell I was making someone uncomfortable. At a certain point in my service, I refused to continue pushing a conversation if I sensed that was the case. I got some flack for that from some mission leaders but it just didn’t feel right. In fact, it seemed damaging. Besides, as missionaries, we’re trying to find people who are already looking, not (as you said) trying to tear down the faith of people who are already firm in their beliefs. So if someone wasn’t interested, then just move on pleasantly. Sometimes, if I was on a bus or the subway, I would keep just chatting with that same person about non-religious stuff, just to be pleasant. Or I just let them enjoy their commute in peace. 😊
As an ordinary Latter-day Saint in the real world, I enjoy talking about my beliefs. I WANT to be understood and respected. But I have no desire to try to force my beliefs on someone else. And for what it’s worth, I enjoy hearing about other people’s beliefs when they’re offered in that spirit as well. So from this Latter-day Saint’s opinion, share away! I find the back and forth dialogue so enriching.
Also, when I saw your temple video in my feed, my heart did sink. We have some people who secretly hate the church but go to the temple one last time and secretly record the ordinances just so they can post it so everyone can make fun of the “weird Mormons”. I thought it would be some variation of that. When I realized it was an open house, I thought surely, as a PASTOR of another faith, you’d still be trying to dissect everything that’s wrong and why “Mormons aren’t Christians”. And it was just SO unexpected that that wasn’t your agenda that I literally shed multiple tears watching that video. ❤
Edited to add: it would be disingenuous to omit that we hold a CORE belief that priesthood authority is vitally important to the validity of ordinances. Naturally, we believe this was restored to Joseph Smith. Therefore, it is a CORE belief that no other religion has priesthood authority. That being said, if a Latter-day Saint is OFFENDED that you disagree, that’s something they’re struggling with, not something you’ve done wrong. “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.” So if we have fundamental differences of belief, we SHOULD be able to respect those differences and still be friends or at least peacefully coexist.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I have a beautiful friend who is not a Latter- Day Saint. I’d love to share your information with her so she could join with your congregation. I think she would really love the things you say and teach. How can she find it? Also YES! Jesus is the one who saves us.
I think this is the way to go. When you look at our beliefs, you question certain things that can be perceived as trying to sway us away from our belief. If you had Kurt there as a tool to give a clear church doctrinal view it would be more conducive to us members.
It would be cool if you guys could extend this same amount of compassion and understanding that you hold for one another to atheists as well!
That’s fair we can do better. I’d only ask the same of atheist. They are worse than evangelicals when it comes to demeaning people of faith and later day saints.
I still say to keep on the path of similarities….Christ is at the center of it all….he is our Savior…he says, “Come unto me.” And then gives us our freedom to choose. He does not try to boss us around. But he is the boss of the truth. He will plead and persuade, and direct aright…but never try to force the human mind. Boss really is not the word for Christ…he is divine. He is our Savior and Redeemer, and our friend. I hope we can be your friend!!
Gotta love the billboard they pass at 4:39!! 😂
Good catch
Looks protestant though
@@Compulsive-Elk7103 That's what I thought!
Thank you Jeff and Kurt. Your honesty and understanding of one another is amazing. This should be the first video for anyone, regardless of faith, who hasn't watch any Hello Saints videos. Jeff, your intent of why you started Hello Saints is convincingly clear.
I have considered sharing Hello Saints with my evangelical sister. We were raised faithful Roman Catholics but found our better paths years after leaving home. She as an evangelical and me as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She and our dad, who became a Catholic priest (an interesting story) communicated and collected many things to try to convince me I had made a big mistake. I think it was more to convince them because, interestingly enough they didn't share with me directly. I found a lot of "anti-mormon" information in Dad's papers after he passed away. All I did was try to assure them I know of the divinity Jesus Christ and he is my Savior.
Because we live far apart, my sister and I have never had a serious conversation about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Several months ago I considered sharing Hello Saints with her, but did not because I still questioned Jeff's intent and quite honestly was concerned it may be a stumbling block to her conversion to the LDS faith. In our hearts it is what all (or most) Latter-day Saints want of their families who are not yet LDS. This video is a reminder that people are on their own faith path in their relationship with God and all we can do is share what we know is important. I am very proud of the Christ-like life that she leads. I want her to know more about my faith with an open heart and mind. Hearing it from an evangelical Pastor like Jeff in this open and honest format may be the best way for her to know more about what I believe without thinking she has to save her little brother.
@frankbrady1568 That's a wonderful testimony ... thanks for sharing!
In China, the government will have CCP officials attend LDS meetings to ensure that we are not teaching anything seditious. These officials turn out to be a blessing because they get a first hand look at what the Church is really all about and what we do teach. Are these individuals ever converted? Nope. Virtually zero chance of that, despite all the miraculous stories you may hear in Fast and Testimony meetings. But they do become advocates for us when false claims are bandied about. I think it is great that Pastor Jeff is getting to know us better. I hope he has the courage to speak the truth as he knows it when falsehoods about the LDS arise. It's all we can expect.
PS I thought the Stick of Joseph discussion was superb, helping me understand Jeff's faith and way of thinking.
“Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.” -Obi-wan Kenobi
Can you explain why this happens? I feel it’s fear of being wrong … on both sides. But I don’t have any fear and don’t get angry, just acceptance of each other’s walk with God.
We members just like you, and want you to be happy….take a break and focus on something else, and remember that we love you as our neighbor.
Get to know the church Welfare Services program….ask a leader where to visit. I worked in that program!! That is something we have in common!! Focus on what’s in common….believe me, I dealt with this for years. Do not keep going where you may disagree if you want to control the outcome.
Hey! I was born, raised and baptized in Tracy, California.
I'm very much a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, of LDS, but I have friends that have left, and I'm more than happy that they are still Christian, and have not left Jesus. I didn't start that way, but life has taught me the most important thing is Jesus.
Glory to Jesus Christ 🙏☦️❤️
I love St. George,(Dixie) born and bred there. I still call it home.
Bring all good things with you to the Lord's Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints, and enjoying what will add unto your life, the Lord commanded to take to every kindred tongue and people, a stone cut out of the mountain without hands, living foundation of Apostles and Prophets and Jesus Christ is the Head, leading and directed by direct revelations, The Church is alive, breathing like a person breathing to enjoying life,,Invite all to come unto Christ and His Church,No little lying in the Lord, He knows our hearts and our minds, He bless us from inside and out, power in honest thoughts and actions
What is the sinner's prayer?