Atlantean units are simply not as easy to use as the units of other factions. Atlantean "counter" style units are either really good (if you've scouted the enemy and picked the right counter), or they're really bad. This means that the Atlantean player needs to understand what their opponent is doing, and then build against it. You can't just "wing it" the way you can with other factions. One misstep or lack of scouting, and you're making things harder on yourself. Sure, they have amazing units, when fully upgraded, but they require a lot of investment. For example, "heroizing" Atlantean units can be a "resource sink", and if you're up against a myth-heavy faction, it can easily stall your economy. Atlantean early god powers aren't great, especially when it comes to battles, where they need the extra help. Apart from Chaos (T3), their god powers are kind of "meh". Traitor (T3) targets a single enemy unit. Valor (T2) targets a single unit. Spider Lair (T2) requires positioning. Compare that to the Greeks, who get Bolt (T1-Zeus), Sentinel (T1-Hades), Lure (T1-Poseidon), Restoration (T2), Cease Fire (T2), Curse (T3), Bronze (T3), Underworld Passage (T3), etc., all of which leads into Earthquake (T4), Lightning Storm (T4), or Plenty (T4). There's no comparison. Egypt has more economy and building focused god powers, but their economy is already strong, so there are strong synergies. Norse have a few situationally strong god powers, but they don't need strong god powers since they have the best rush momentum in the game. Atlanteans are just slow, their units are hit-or-miss, and their god powers don't really help them shore up their weak spots. To me, they're the "late age" civ of the game, and just need to hold on until they "get strong". Unfortunately, a lot of games end before that can happen.
I agree I keep trying to use them and get better with them. I haven't found a style yet that I like enough to use regularly because I keep defaulting to Greeks or Norse. Still not very good with Egypt yet but I'm working on them too.
This match felt so onesided. I think the main issue with atlanteans is that their human soldiers are really only good against their direct counters and nothing else. So if you did what 3DBee did here which is just force them into the only unit that can engage your centaurs and then just immediately counter that unit the game is pretty much over
I've been playing an absolute ton of Atlanteans and Kronos/Oranos, but I have to say I don't think this is a Malians case. I think a huge problem facing Atlanteans in Retold is the fact that Myth units and God Powers are so much stronger here, but Atlanteans have generally the weakest of both worlds while also having to spend an absurd amount of resources to get heroes, which also makes it so that you have to go Prometheus for Valor (also Leto just sucks.) Atlanteans also have terrible unit variety when it comes to Classical Age. Every other civ gets some type of ranged unit or strong counter units but for Atlanteans, they kind of just have Turma and Turma aren't that good and get giga-countered by Toxotes and Slingers. I think the absolute wosrt part for Atlantean vs. Greek is that Turma get out-ranged and out-damaged by Toxotes. Katapeltes also lose very hard to Toxotes because they only have 10% pierce armor, and Contarius also get countered by Toxotes because of their range and damage.
Turmas are just bad, dude. Age 2 for Atlanteans is tough. It feels like you have to rush Age 3 with them. Atlanteans need some love from the devs, man.
I find the spectating screen very confusing. They should make the top where vils and military is shown the player colour instead of blue/red or now blue/green
Pro games are boring and predictable, generally, unfortunately it seems everyone disagrees and only wants to see pro games cast. Like this game, a guy spams centaur, runs around sniping and being super irritating, stays in age 2, the game is short and then the other guy resigns either in frustration, boredom or at the first hint of any kind of loss. No coming back from a huge villager slaughter and winning in a pro game, they resign as soon as they encounter any kind of difficulty, often. Happens in AOE 2 and 3 also. Low Elo can get too silly, I find mid ELO the most entertaining to watch hands down, but hard to find anyone casting those games. The exception would be Viper, who prioritizes entertainment value over victory, at least on his streamed non tournament games.
not surprising that atleanteans have low playrate, they are probably the least noob friendly faction. just look at their favor generation. greek farm it like every other resource, egyptian get it passively from monuments, norse get it passively from fighting, but atleantean has to do active scout management.
Yeah plus the oracles get picked off easily 🤔 I wonder if some passive gain of favor from the town centers by default (+ increased with the myth upgrade) on top of the oracles might balance that out Also, the atlanteans have no powerful/useful myth unit until heroic age. I played a bunch of legacy before Retold in recent weeks, and the atlantean units as a whole feel much weaker in Retold than in legacy, they die sooo quickly, even/especially the villagers. I loved atlanteans the most in legacy but back to others civ until stuff gets figured out either by players or balances/nerfs 😇
Turma just feel terrible against anything that isn't archers. Which is guess is by design, but then Atlanteans can do nothing about hippeus+centaur until heroic age.
Centaurs need a nerf, or just fix the favor gain for greeks and limit the amount of favor they can gain per minute with additional villagers (like up to 10 or lower the favor gain entirely. No other faction can shit out so much myth units and has so much broken myth units and god powers as well. its ridicoulus
There's already a diminishing return the more villagers you put on favor, but I agree the rate in general for Greeks could be nerfed. Don't think it's the Centaurs, Minotaur spam seems just as popular and effective.
Yeah, but there is one problem - your citizens cost more and train slower, so dedicating some of them to wall will put you in serious economical disadvantage, maybe you will not be able to sustain military and citizen production. I believe it best approach would be to place manors close to resources (hunts, gold ect.) and quickly react as the enemy arrives
As you mentioned, people are sheep, they do as they are told. Now they moved over to Gaia because they heard 'gaia was patched' etc. even though in my opinion it was a few tiny tiny changes only. Since I hate mirrors matches, I just play what no one else ever plays, which at my ELO is any Egyptian pantheon. No one ever plays Kronos or Oranos either. Before that it was Hades and Norse Norse Norse. I don't know why because at my ELO the last thing anyone should care about is their ELO or using the 'best' civ.
Atlantean units are simply not as easy to use as the units of other factions. Atlantean "counter" style units are either really good (if you've scouted the enemy and picked the right counter), or they're really bad. This means that the Atlantean player needs to understand what their opponent is doing, and then build against it. You can't just "wing it" the way you can with other factions. One misstep or lack of scouting, and you're making things harder on yourself. Sure, they have amazing units, when fully upgraded, but they require a lot of investment. For example, "heroizing" Atlantean units can be a "resource sink", and if you're up against a myth-heavy faction, it can easily stall your economy.
Atlantean early god powers aren't great, especially when it comes to battles, where they need the extra help. Apart from Chaos (T3), their god powers are kind of "meh". Traitor (T3) targets a single enemy unit. Valor (T2) targets a single unit. Spider Lair (T2) requires positioning. Compare that to the Greeks, who get Bolt (T1-Zeus), Sentinel (T1-Hades), Lure (T1-Poseidon), Restoration (T2), Cease Fire (T2), Curse (T3), Bronze (T3), Underworld Passage (T3), etc., all of which leads into Earthquake (T4), Lightning Storm (T4), or Plenty (T4). There's no comparison. Egypt has more economy and building focused god powers, but their economy is already strong, so there are strong synergies. Norse have a few situationally strong god powers, but they don't need strong god powers since they have the best rush momentum in the game.
Atlanteans are just slow, their units are hit-or-miss, and their god powers don't really help them shore up their weak spots. To me, they're the "late age" civ of the game, and just need to hold on until they "get strong". Unfortunately, a lot of games end before that can happen.
Good analysis.
Yea but Shockwave of Oranus is decent, as well as Implosion. In Age 3 they get Arcus and Age 4 Fanatics, just in Age 2 have to play good and don't die
I agree I keep trying to use them and get better with them. I haven't found a style yet that I like enough to use regularly because I keep defaulting to Greeks or Norse. Still not very good with Egypt yet but I'm working on them too.
This match felt so onesided. I think the main issue with atlanteans is that their human soldiers are really only good against their direct counters and nothing else. So if you did what 3DBee did here which is just force them into the only unit that can engage your centaurs and then just immediately counter that unit the game is pretty much over
I've been playing an absolute ton of Atlanteans and Kronos/Oranos, but I have to say I don't think this is a Malians case.
I think a huge problem facing Atlanteans in Retold is the fact that Myth units and God Powers are so much stronger here, but Atlanteans have generally the weakest of both worlds while also having to spend an absurd amount of resources to get heroes, which also makes it so that you have to go Prometheus for Valor (also Leto just sucks.)
Atlanteans also have terrible unit variety when it comes to Classical Age. Every other civ gets some type of ranged unit or strong counter units but for Atlanteans, they kind of just have Turma and Turma aren't that good and get giga-countered by Toxotes and Slingers.
I think the absolute wosrt part for Atlantean vs. Greek is that Turma get out-ranged and out-damaged by Toxotes. Katapeltes also lose very hard to Toxotes because they only have 10% pierce armor, and Contarius also get countered by Toxotes because of their range and damage.
just mass hekka gigante :D
Turmas are just bad, dude. Age 2 for Atlanteans is tough. It feels like you have to rush Age 3 with them. Atlanteans need some love from the devs, man.
I find the spectating screen very confusing. They should make the top where vils and military is shown the player colour instead of blue/red or now blue/green
if i was a gambling man i'd guess one atlantean game at redbull
Kinda feel the centaurs’ arrow rain ability is a bit OP
why do Pro's never wall or tower upgrade ? It costs like the amount of gold of 2 units which he loses constantly and that could prolong the game a lot
they are new to the game and most pros hate to spend ressources on defense lol
Pro games are boring and predictable, generally, unfortunately it seems everyone disagrees and only wants to see pro games cast. Like this game, a guy spams centaur, runs around sniping and being super irritating, stays in age 2, the game is short and then the other guy resigns either in frustration, boredom or at the first hint of any kind of loss. No coming back from a huge villager slaughter and winning in a pro game, they resign as soon as they encounter any kind of difficulty, often. Happens in AOE 2 and 3 also. Low Elo can get too silly, I find mid ELO the most entertaining to watch hands down, but hard to find anyone casting those games. The exception would be Viper, who prioritizes entertainment value over victory, at least on his streamed non tournament games.
not surprising that atleanteans have low playrate, they are probably the least noob friendly faction.
just look at their favor generation. greek farm it like every other resource, egyptian get it passively from monuments, norse get it passively from fighting, but atleantean has to do active scout management.
Yeah plus the oracles get picked off easily 🤔 I wonder if some passive gain of favor from the town centers by default (+ increased with the myth upgrade) on top of the oracles might balance that out
Also, the atlanteans have no powerful/useful myth unit until heroic age.
I played a bunch of legacy before Retold in recent weeks, and the atlantean units as a whole feel much weaker in Retold than in legacy, they die sooo quickly, even/especially the villagers. I loved atlanteans the most in legacy but back to others civ until stuff gets figured out either by players or balances/nerfs 😇
Turma just feel terrible against anything that isn't archers. Which is guess is by design, but then Atlanteans can do nothing about hippeus+centaur until heroic age.
Who can do something againts hippeus+centaur before heroic? Lol
The Post game stats cannot be seen while casting a replay during live mode.
Centaurs need a nerf, or just fix the favor gain for greeks and limit the amount of favor they can gain per minute with additional villagers (like up to 10 or lower the favor gain entirely. No other faction can shit out so much myth units and has so much broken myth units and god powers as well. its ridicoulus
Also increase cost of toxotes. Not sure why the best archer in the game needs to be so cheap. It's best at everything.
Agreed Greeks spam myth units so easily. I play kronos and needing so many oracles without them getting caught out is hard atm
No plz I love Greeks
There's already a diminishing return the more villagers you put on favor, but I agree the rate in general for Greeks could be nerfed. Don't think it's the Centaurs, Minotaur spam seems just as popular and effective.
just buff weak stuff. no nerfs.
My man needed some walls
Yeah, but there is one problem - your citizens cost more and train slower, so dedicating some of them to wall will put you in serious economical disadvantage, maybe you will not be able to sustain military and citizen production. I believe it best approach would be to place manors close to resources (hunts, gold ect.) and quickly react as the enemy arrives
@@ponurygrzesiek2812Manors only have two garrison slots in Retold so it's not even that good I feel
@@theowlogram888 build 2 per vil
My problem with atlanteans is needing Mythic Age to build siege units...
he had 0 possibilities of dealing with greek hero and bled too much units, promethean are bad joke compared to centaurs
As you mentioned, people are sheep, they do as they are told. Now they moved over to Gaia because they heard 'gaia was patched' etc. even though in my opinion it was a few tiny tiny changes only. Since I hate mirrors matches, I just play what no one else ever plays, which at my ELO is any Egyptian pantheon. No one ever plays Kronos or Oranos either. Before that it was Hades and Norse Norse Norse. I don't know why because at my ELO the last thing anyone should care about is their ELO or using the 'best' civ.
I was literally searching for a kronus game
there´s one from "husksuppe" .. :D
age of mytholgy replays are fast
Atlantian villagers have always been my favourite unit
I don't think there is any way for Atlanteans to win this classic age engagement.
They're good, but I honestly don't think they're as good as mista or bofa.
Themistacles and Bophides
@@miketacos9034 Bofadeeznuts!
If you want to pause, just click on the keyboard key "pause"
This Atlanteans have some weird sounds 😂