A Sophisticated Weapons System Decides To Attack A Plane | Mayday: Air Disaster
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 14 мар 2023
- The USS Vincennes is in the Gulf to help defend travelling oil tankers from hostile Iranian speedboats. Capt. Rogers and his crew are engaged in a sea battle with the speedboats equipped with machine guns and rocket launchers when the Aegis radar picks up the track of an incoming aircraft. The ship’s sophisticated weapons system has to decide whether the aircraft is friendly, or an attacking warplane.
Want to watch more full episodes on our channel? Watch them here: • Full Episodes | Mayday...
Mayday: Air Disaster - From Season 3 Episode 5 "Mistaken Identity": During a sea battle, a military radar operator stationed on a war ship equipped with a highly sophisticated weapons system, mistakenly identifies an approaching civilian aircraft as a hostile F-14. The plane is shot down and all 290 people on board are killed. The ensuing investigation shows how fear led to a chain of errors, and a catastrophic blunder.
Mayday: Air Disaster is a dramatic non-fiction series that investigates high-profile air disasters to uncover how and why they happened. Mayday: Air Disaster follows survivors, family members of crash victims and transportation safety investigators as they piece together the evidence of the causes of major accidents. So climb into the cockpit for an experience you won’t soon forget.
Subscribe to the OFFICIAL Mayday: Air Disaster channel here: bit.ly/2PQnaMI
#MaydayAirDisaster #MaydayInvestigation #AirEmergency #MaydayEpisodes #planecrashes #airplanecrashes #aviationaccidents #Fullepisode #airplanedisasterdocumentary #aircrashinvestigation #AF8969 #911 
Развлечения
Want to watch more full episodes on our channel? Watch them here: ruclips.net/p/PLiXVS8S6-YAUBts83-WRHLjn1DCSSNcjb
The one mistake that to me that stands out is the single tech that calls out ‘descending’ without being confirmed by anyone else.😢
Yeah, there should be a two-man rule just like handling nuclear weapons.
What about the pilot not responding, while being called on 3 times with his heading, speed and altitude, only because the speed is 50 knots off. He should have known only he can see his airspeed, anybody else would call a groundspeed. He should have replied after hearing nobody else reply.
Of course, if only the warship had called out his squawk code, it would have be crystal clear to the pilot, but I do think some blame lies with him too.
@@tonfleuren3536 not applicable to him.
@@tonfleuren3536 have you never heard of ground speed and airspeed.. the difference can be a lot more than 50 knots... the US ship did not have civilian radio frequencies why ?.. are you so dumb as to suggest that commercial airliners should carry military frequencies dumbo..
The "tech" you are referring to is the TAO (Tactical Action Officer).
He's in charge of the CIC.
Every man, screen and weapons system interface in that room is his to command.
When I served in the Navy, we were told this and trained in case this was to happen again. We would always talk to any civilian aircraft that passed anywhere near us.
They also tried to make contact
@@puo2123 So you think its ok to park a military ship, in front of another countries airport, then firing at the first contact you see because it didn't answer on a military frequency? While squawking a civilian code?
I agree, they really gave that A300 a chance to correct its naughty and completely inappropriate behavior!
@@theflyinggasmask they also called on a civillian frequency
@@puo2123 Only 3 times while being very vague. Here is what they should've done, IFF'ed multiple times and double checked the transponder response. They should've double checked the altitude. They should've called on 121.5 to the actual transponder number (Squawk). They should've had a person outside with binoculars visually ID'ing the "target", which would've been easy considering its a white widebody 20-15 miles away at 15.000. Or, simply used common sense and all available information, instead of tunnel visioning.
I'm also quite sure that such an advanced radar array had Non-cooperative Target Recognition, able to identify the aircraft type via the radar returns of the engine blades.
Even if it didn't, the crew had more than enough tech and equipment to rightfully identify the aircraft! You shouldn't operate within another countries territorial waters, near an airport, if you can't manage your warship enough to avoid shooting civilians!
@@puo2123 Yep, but most times on frequency they did not even hear, and roughly misindentifying them...
You know, those are transmissions to "everyone" around, like 100mi+, dozens of aircraft can hear them, unless you acceptably indentify them, they can't know you mean them.
If you saying "hey, you plane to north of us, at spead XXX height YYY trying to attack us, turn away" and both XXX and YYY is unexact/wrong then Civilian plane at different height, different speeed and NOT trying to attack anyone can't know you mean them!
Now imagine if Iran did this off the coast of the US.
The US government will probably issue a statement that it was intentional and jihad. Did they pay the families any compensation for the damages done???
Iran kills 250+ US citizens, mistake or not, next they're nuked.
We need a system where both the conqueror and conquered can be convicted of war crimes if found guilty of it. As at now, only God can apportion such judgement.
That's what I was about to say!!! Imagine if the US have fights with Mexico or Canada, and then warships from half the globe away meddle around "to maintain the peace" (uh huh), claimed places to be "war zone" (forbid people to continue doing their usual daily job around the spaces, it's their own fault for continuing their business), and then shot one of US passenger plane just 4 km off shore and killed many people... 😑
And then the crew of the said warship commended and praised as heroes in their home country, yay! 🎖🎖🎖👏👏👏😒
Just admit the mistakes, learn from it, prevent the same thing happen again, and stop meddling in other country's (wealth) fights.
Sorry my English isn't quite good yet to write what I really want to say.
100% these men acted in bloodlust
The weapon system didn't shoot down the plane, people did.
The warship and the crew did exactly what they should do. Protected an American Navel Asset. Blame needs to rest with the Iranians and Iraq-s ...
billion-dollar ships with no civilian comms.
I'm thinking of my father's 1950's Hallicrafter ham-radio tube-outfit...
"Hey, we're military, why do we need civilian frequencies?"
"Because civilian aircraft?"
"Civilian aircraft should keep their distance... hey, we're military..."
@@-danR i agree with the logic for sure. When the crew used the data they had - knowing another ship was hit a month earlier - well, its just the nature of conflicts -- never really any winners.
@@robbarron4066 no not true IT WAS A CIVILIAN AIRCRAFT
@@nc330-9.. You are being deliberatly dense. The Iranians knew that there was a battle going on and sent a civilian aircraft into that battle. 100% iranian fault.
absolutely mind boggling that they rewarded people for this...
I was able to forgive the error in my own heart until that point.
Then the whole thing collapsed like a house of cards into rage.
Thinkng the same thing bro, it insane, killing innocent get reward
drink less soy
eh probably some kids on that plane thatd grow up to be terrorists anyway!
@@eimantasbutkus5324 are you okay?
Imagine shooting a Civilian plane in others country airspace and then getting rewarded for ur war crimes . Disgusting
It was in international waters.
Exactly. The United States is the most terroristic country in the world.
No, it was 2.4 miles in Iranian waters.
@@jimsperlakis5634 So? Your point being...? 😅
Imagine if this accident happened to US... Iranian navy to US passenger plane? It leads to a war
As sad as this incident is, my country of Iran did shot down a Ukrainian civilian jet. And I'm deeply sorry for my country mistake as a whole.
Never, just Iran may received democracy!
“We investigated ourselves, and found nothing wrong. Even when all the ship’s instruments showed the plane wasn’t descending, among other serious issues, we did nothing wrong! It’s totally the enemy’s fault, definitely not ours!!!”
This is why an outside party should investigate matters like this. This was a grave miscarriage of justice. But no surprise from the US military.
At least they admitted to misidentifying it, and admitted it promptly. Korean Air 007 never got the courtesy.
This isn't a US military problem; this is a _war_ problem.
And got medals for doing so..added salt to the wounded
Indeed
@@lanag492 The medals were for doing their job as best they could with the data at hand. It was the 1st time these sailors had been in a live fire engagement. Their equipment was inadequate for the situation. With what they did have the Captain should have engaged at 20 miles. In war civilians always get killed ... everything from friendly fire to you name it. For the combatants Adrenaline and facing a dynamic critical incident for the first time causes weird things to occur, some of it is involuntary. It shuts down perimeter awareness causing tunnel vision, also fine motor responses become lessoned and we mentally revert to repetitive training. Swat teams know it can also cause the nervous system to focus on life saving actions ... and no longer control the body elimination processes. They have a place in their van to 'eliminate' waste before piling out of the vehicle.
Stay with your cartoon video games and leave comments to adults....lol
Having been on another U.S. Navy warship in the vicinity of the USS Vincennes during the shoot down I can attest to the accuracy of much of the video. The gulf was at the time and later, a crazy place. You can have a shooting engagement going on, with hostile aircraft and surface vessels, while news helicopters are flying about, fishing and other commercial craft going about their business all at the same moment. It is actually rather amazing that more such incidents didn't occur.
if the USA Military wasn't in the gulf it wouldn't have been a crazy place.
Remember you were in Iran's water and Airspace with that chopper and the gun boats had the right to fire - total US provocation there is no excuse all your excuses died in Iraq
@@ironclay3939 ok terrorist
Is this ship still in service?
@@ironclay3939 you seem to forget that Iran was attacking Iraqi tankers.....they started the hostility.... American ships were there to keep the peace and allow nations to trade for mutual benefit.
@@BlkInc1 No.
Perhaps not only fear but also paranoia played a roll in this event.
This wasn’t a computer error but human error and all envolved should’ve been held responsible. This could’ve easily sent us into war. Praying for all 291 family and loves affected by this horrible disaster. Do you know how many people are affected by human error and get the most possible punishment yet they didn’t get anything but an award and slap on the wrist? From accidents deaths, bystanders, pedestrians, accidentally shot. Unbelievable.
The officers should never have received awards. Regardless of actions taken, the final result was a huge error. An error resulting in loss of life is inexcusable in the civilian world.
I can understand the human error. I can understand the crew has guilt etc. I can forgive that, even though I disagree about meddling other people's business in other people's house in the first place. But praising them and award them medals is like spraying lemon and salt on a fresh gaping wound. Imagine what the victims' families would feel. The US was too proud.
The guy who informed altitude decline is the main culprut 😔😔
So, mixing civilian and military aircraft turns out to be a bad idea.
Who would have thought.
who would have thought being 4km inside another country's territorial waters would result in being fired on....so much for GPS.
Naah its because a billion dollar ship have no civillian coms
@@luckypatel6849 Yup, well in war they would really have no use for that but since we have peace for 50+ years, you would think it might be a good idea to have civilian radio to coexist with civilians (and not shoot them down each time some operator makes basic error and the others fail to check that)...
Ofcourse, they couldn't use just any civilian sht, they would ofcourse use (and PAY for!) "military grade" civilian frequency radio... that would need to be certified, delivered by proper contractor... yea quite probably they would pay 10x as much as civilians = small fortune. Thats why they left it out probably... :(
When I used to fly in and out of Winnipeg International Airport, the Canadian Air Force used the same runways, BUT a Military only Radio Frequency. It's a miracle there was not an accident. Military and Civilian Aircraft should NEVER be allowed to use the same Airport !
@@davidmalloy9462 I agree, but I don't remember Winniped being in an active war zone.
At least not recently.
39:00 that is a scary cognitive bias, I can only imagine how often this contributes to disasters of all types. Not the main factor, but in life or death situations it certainly must play a part
It is so sad for the families that this human mistake under pressure like that is so very unfortunate . The commander who called to orders took their mistake to shoot the Irain passenger jet to heart .He will live with this memory for the rest of his life .He will see this at night and can not sleep .Maybe this error will help change things and these things may not happen again..i pray for the families left behind .May God spread his mericies on their hearts and give them peace
It is a bad situation to be in. What made it worse is not getting on the radio to speak that squak number. It is a situation no skipper ever wants to be in ever again. When ya make mistakes like that one it does come down to setting some new rules in place as well as looking at the situation as a whole.
No it is not. This was intentional just like so many other aircrafts we have downed to escalate things in wars we have no business fighting. These are war crimes.
The cowboys were in Iranian waters and they knew it. They tried to cover it up but unsuccessfully. In that state of mind, "mistake!" was not unavoidable. They committed a war crime. But hey, who is going to hold the US Navy accountable! On the contrary, they received medals!
@@KonjanCham As all war criminals do. Heck One even received a nobel peace price. War is peace, freedom s slavery, USA is 1984
The captain: its just standing there, menacingly
that's his job -- that is exactly what we want him to do.
Its a meme from spongebob and yes I know he is supposed to take anything seriously
He sound’s bloodthirsty the whole time and should be in prison
I blame four parties. US Navy, Iran, Iraq, and Iranian Airlines.
From what I see, the radar was tracking TWO targets (an Iranian F-14 which was stationed on the airport as some civilian airports can be dual used and the Iran air flight)and was not updating properly since it was still tracking the F-14 even after the airline had left.
The officer tracking the target didn’t verify with a squawk code or airspeed since groundspeed is different from airspeed.
There was no failsafe in case the officer misinterpreted the data (I.e ascending instead descending).
And of course getting constantly attacked or harassed can make crews overly cautious or aggressive and become stressed or panicked when there is even a hint of a threat.
The fact that no one confirmed anything is very scary. I'm baffled at the trigger happiness gestures here. Wow! "They acted properly" when not one person in command decided double check figures on their juniors' screens
They didn't have time. It's easy to sit and judge, but you weren't there.
How were they trigger happy? Even with the alarming (though admittedly inaccurate) information he was given, the captain waited until the last possible moment to fire.
This did not all happen in just a few seconds!
There was plenty of time for a second person to verify if the plane was ascending or descending!
Not only is this a human tragedy that this happened, but it is also a serious problem for security of the ship, because if it is that easy to mistakenly believe that an aircraft is descending, then the opposite could happen as well. Hitting an aircraft you don't want to hit, is effectively rquivalent to not hitting an aircraft that you actually DO want to hit!
Even in 1988 it’s hard to imagine that Aegis couldn’t distinguish between an A300 in climb out and an F-14 at 85km and less. Where was the recon helo? Could it not have been directed toward the bogey for a visual ID before making a life or death decision? Last, the Vincennes was in radio contact with the P3 it warned away earlier. Did it not occur to any of the officers to attempt to contact them, and tell them to warn off the bogey flight?
Problem is the P3 orion was Iranian, not sure what its intentions really were, it may have been part of an attack on Vincennes to call in an airstrike -- at the time Vincennes had no idea. But maybe the P3 could contact A300 and tell A300 to leave area immediately. Would it be safe for Vincennes to contact the P3 and ask for a favor? Or else maybe P3 was also unable to talk directly to A300.
@@ckom9 Yeah, it’s a reach, even with 20/20 hindsight, to think that the P-3 could have helped avoid the catastrophe. I don’t know how many CIC operators would have the imagination and initiative to give it a try. There wasn’t time to ask permission first.
Think about how ridiculous your comment is. Seriously.
@@TheTreegodfather When Vincennes’ gun malfunctioned, an entire CIC either panicked or chose not to intervene. Take your pick. I’m not absolving Iran of some responsibility, as they were trained for decades by US military. They knew the flight being off schedule would cause problems. They knew that more than a single IFF mode would be needed to assure safety, and they failed to communicate adequately. So did the CIC.
No time and to many things happening at the same time.
Very emotional and touching movie. My thoughts are with the deceased and families. How ever much we have the most sophisticated technology, human error can cause disaster. Accidents could happen.
all hands man your battle stations✊
@@raven4k998 Absolutely.....right.😊
My friend Heros welcoming in San Diego is NOT "human error".
Yup ... they need a civilian radio to be truly efficient. Hope they have one now. Any idea on what the follow up adjustments were to prevent a recurrence?
It's pretty wild that they didn't have a radio that could talk to civilian traffic other than on the emergency frequency then don't use the unique identifier that would make it clear who they're talking to.
@@MrRtkwe Yes, hopefully they do now.
@@michaelpcooksey5096the faa requires all civilian aircrafts now to be equipped with both military and civilian air frequencies. It is not known if the military ever changed there frequencies to better communicate with civilian aircraft but at least the faa stepped in to help before another disaster between the military and a civilian aircraft struck.
@@edwardsr70 Am VERY glad to hear they did so. It is my hope all civilian aircraft ... no matter their country has done so. Also, that somehow the aircraft designator can be a part of the transponder ping? or maybe it already is? At the same time I do get a little concerned about the ability for a military aircraft to simply go DARK. I don't like the civilians being destroyed [am now a civilian myself], but would have truly appreciated it if the captain had sent the missiles at the 20 mile mark. ... and yes, even if I would have happened to be on that airliner at the time. We all face a 100% death possibility ... its only the time and circumstances that vary. We are supposed to be ready to go at a moment's notice ... hopefully to a positive reassignment ..
Its a LIE if they could broadcast on 121.5 MHz they could also broabcast on any other frequency from that spectrum witch includes all civil air frequencies its total BS.
It is disgusting that the 2 officers accepted their awards knowing very well that their actions led to the death of innocent civilians & also, accepting the hero's welcome at the San diego dock. Quite sickening tbh!
The captain should have immediately told everyone to stop the celebration & asked them to just go home.
Ah yes, the system decided to attack the aircraft on it's own. Nice headline to protect the criminals in charge.
The Iranian F-14 Tomcats at the time had no air to ground weapons except their gun! So, for just one F-14 to literally commit suicide by approaching a US Navy destroyer would be totally illogical. However, one can understand that the US Navy could not take any chances in such a difficult circumstance. I was only a little boy at that time, living in Iran, and I remember this tragic downing of the Iranian passenger airplane.
The Iranians modified an I-Hawk SAM and strapped them onto their F-14's and used them in combat. However, i'm not sure if they abandoned the idea by 1988.
The US doesn't care about Iranian lives... That's why they thought shooting it will be better....
Wait- what happened to the officer who misread the screen and kept calling out that it was descending and accelerating? We just skipped right past him…
Nthg.. its usa.. like most countries they have a hero complex
Remember kids, if you defend the actions of the captain, you also defend the actions of the Soviets when they shot down KAL 007.
Not really, I’m sure the KAL’s IFF was functional. It was the US Spy plane shadowing KAL 007 that threw them off.
I don’t understand how they can be blamed for this situation, it was the right call with the information at hand imo. As unfortunate as that is.
@@BM-Despair They never should have been there. If you break into someone's home and shoot them because you thought they were going to attack you, you don't get to claim self defense.
@@synthgal1090 It was international waters, they had every right to be there. Also if they're in an active battle situation and they were being approached by what they thought was an F-14, the CPT did what he needed to when he thought he was protecting his crew.
@@BM-Despair watch from 46:30.. they were actually 4 kilometers into Iranian waters. They're like the thief portrayed by @SynthGal
The arrogance, imagine shooting someone and saying it’s their fault for standing there. It’s like bro, YOU'RE IN MY KITCHEN!
More like I'M ON OF YOUR YARD
This was youtube in 1999 on TLC. I was 11 watching this stuff. 36 now. Still loving this stuff.
Mistakes were made on both sides but yeah, the crew of the ship hold most of the fault. The moment that squawk code changed they should have taken some extra measures to ID the plane. Anything like calling the airport and asking if they had a civilian jet in the area. Maybe go out on the deck and try to get an actual visual with binoculars since they thought it was within 10 miles and descending they should have been able to see a jumbo jet and possibly an F16. Also, the civilian airport should have been instructing all aircraft to avoid flying over this part of the ocean as there are military operations going on. Even if it's was just drills with non live rounds, there should have been a no fly zone implemented. And the crew of the plane should have responded to the ships call. If I'm flying a commercial jet and hear that warning I'm going to respond with my aircraft type, flight ID and speed/position/alt right away.
Yeah, your comment is absolutely right! But there's one thing that changes everything! They been there in war... Nobody wants to talk with the 'enemy'. No the war ship to confirm with the airport, no the pilots of the civil ship... human being psychology! 🤔
Did you even watch the video? The Vincennes wasn't where they were supposed to be. They got way too deep into Iranian waters. Sure the navy helicopter was attacked by ground ships, but there was no immediate threat by air. Therefore, air traffic was deemed safe to continue without any disruption. You are commenting like it was a ongoing world war and a civilian aircraft stumbled into a no fly zone, thus getting shot down. And you cannot be more wrong. Now am I saying the Vincennes is to take 100% blame? No. But they are the preparator to a preventable incident.
Imagine an Iranian warship gunning down an USA civilian plane, while being on waters they shouldn’t have been at…
Exactly my point wrong is wrong and American ship were clearly on the wrong it was proven that they shot that plane down in its own airspace and yet they get awarded for it
USA said the aegis was in intl waters. But the reporter claimed the aegis was 4km INSIDE Iranian waters!!!?? Who should I believe???
There have been other incidents where commercial airplanes were shot down after this one. Commercial airplanes should never fly over conflict zones, or even just over military training exercises. I don't understand why that is so difficult to figure out.
How about the us stop pretending to be the worlds hero
@@reynaldiwidjaja277I agree but the US is not the only one who has shot civilian planes down
@@reynaldiwidjaja277 The only major US shootdown incident since this one was a minor incident in which 7 people were killed. In opposition, US-opposed forces have several major kills, including MH-17, PS-752, Siberian 1812, the Baghdad DHL incident, and more.
@@reynaldiwidjaja277 I'd rather get protected by the United States than russia.
1795-1918 & 1939-1991 was a fun period for us with tons of happiness and freedom
It was not the weapons system which decided to attack. It was the officers who decided to attack.
Seems the 5” gunnery crew needed more practice.
Everyone in here arguing over blame needs to grow tf up. It was an extremely unfortunate situation. There's so much that went wrong that it's mind boggling. This is why military and civilian crafts can (and are trained to) communicate with eachother, so this tragedy doesn't happen again.
Thank you for being the adult in the room.
What everyone who can’t figure out how they couldn’t tell it was a commercial plane and not a f14 are forgetting or failing to realize is the fact that it’s not in the least bit out of question for a plane to take off with one transponder/identifier and switch it off and switch to a different one to hide it’s intentions or identity. It’s common for drug runners to do it so it’s obviously not the least bit out of the question for a foreign military to do it
That’s their problem. The unqualified crew labeled the aircraft with the wrong name and mistakenly said they are descending rapidly while they are increasing the altitude. Incompetent at the worst display here. There are zero excuses for this. The airline pilot did everything according to protocol. The incompetent crew committed war crimes.
@@jianwei2009 They were "incompetent" for noticing the plane had an F-14 squawk code for a while and knowing that squawk codes could be faked. They were "incompetent" for trying to contact the plane *multiple times* on the one civilian frequency they had access to. They were "incompetent" for waiting till the last second to open fire on the off chance it *was* civilian and they could open communications.
"My mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts."
@@brigidtheirish
No, you're the one who has your mind made up because if you did any actual research you would KNOW that those "attempts" were pathetic and never actually addressed the passenger aircraft. I hope you would also defend the Soviet shoot down of KAL-007 the same way.
@@luffypilled You mean the one where they had visual confirmation that it was a civilian plane and *didn't* attempt to communicate before shooting it out of the sky? You seem to also be purposely ignoring that military radio communications weren't required to use squawk codes in their address at the time if that's what you mean by "pathetic."
@@brigidtheirish
And? They still believed in could've been a spy plane so even if the evidence was pointing towards the opposite (the same way the evidence in this case was). We can also talk about other air-craft shootdowns. I don't care if they weren't required to use squawk codes, because doing something so simple could've saved hundreds of lives that day.
This is why we need a no fly zone for international flights when war happens
Can’t give an inch to a dictator. International airspace will become dickspace
But the shooting down was done in Iranian waters! Moreover it's really surprising a trained personnel saying the plane is descending, while actually it was the opposite. Also the speed of the craft along with radio silence is evident that it was a civilian airplane. Even so they were completely unaware of the time zone they were into. Helding others guilty or blaming others are easy. We will suffer once if we overlook our own mistakes. Resposible means to improve to console to rectify. Those who were dead won't come back but it's surprising the captain and the crew received grand welcome and were felicitated! They should not be convicted or imprisoned either because their intentions were not wrong but their attentions were. Atleast they must not have received awards and recognitions and must have instantly lost their jobs instead.
Rest I accept with your comment that such zone should exist during war. Rather I pray war shouldn't exist anywhere in this world
Ofcourse, you not only send US warships into their neighbourhood (sometimes even into their territorial waters), and then you ALSO shut down half their air traffic, "to make them sure" yes that is ridiculous...
The plane was tightly following preciselly defined international air route, their only "error" was they were some 30min delayed, but that is absolutelly common in any airspace, just go ask how many acft are preciselly on (proposed) time, less than half of them!
If you are dumb enough to fly through a war zone… you don’t deserve to live.
Has high tech as the ship was, it was missing a simple radio tuner that could contact civil frequencies!
they did try to contact them use civil frequencies please watch the video again they didn't have the airline frequencies they had to use civil frequencies
@@killingerk They used the emergency civil frequency since they didn't have the other. And the plane could not read those communications.
A big question is how do you mistake an A300 for an F-14? Yes, the Turkey Bird was a huge fighter, but not that big....
this is the 1980s. radar couldnt tell the difference between a mountain and a fruit fly
@@flayv999 Um, actually, many radar systems back in the 1980s did. The telemetry system on commercial and military aircraft that gave the squawk code could also feed the system aircraft type, indicated air speed, altitude, direction and some "aircraft health codes", although that last part was limited. This was in use at the time by major FAA controlled airports and at least the US Air Force. And they would display it ON SCREEN in a coded block of text off to the side of the aircraft blip on the radar. There's also the ability to show the aircraft's identifying code (like WN1234 for Southwest flight 1234), but I don't know if that's something configured on the plane's side or in a database that gets referenced by the squawk code. I don't know why that ship's ATC system was so antiquated to have it displayed on the side and only when the aircraft was selected on screen.
How I know all this? My dad worked on the damn things in the USAF at that time, and I got to see the inside of the one of their air traffic control centers (during a slow period) where one of the ATC's on duty explained to me how the system works. The capability was there back then, so I have no idea why the ship didn't have it. Just having the relevant squawk codes next to the radar blips would have cleared that mess up.
@losingsince1977 Size doesn't have anything to do with it in this situation, although I do find the ship's radar system to be deficient. The radar ping can't judge the size of the aircraft as the design of the SR-71 can attest. Shape and materials involved can alter the reflective profile of the radar beam, and the radar systems generally monitored strength of the return echo and the time it took to gauged distance only.
However, civilian and military radar systems back then used what was called a secondary radar system that would ping the transponder box, and depending on what the box had access and was set to (Modes C and S on the transponders of commercial aircraft, and yes you can turn those things off), would return the squawk code and aircraft telemetry as well as flag this information on the radar screen next to the blip. Had the ship's radar system had this feature installed/enabled, there would have been a lovely little box of text next to the blip ratting the planes out, including where 1100 was.
As for why 1100 F-14 didn't appear as a blip on the radar scope, that could have been due to range of primary radar system or the airport sitting below the cone of signal that the ship's radar was sending out. (Radio waves tend to follow straight lines, but can be blocked and/or bounced. That's why you can pick up certain AM radio stations way outside of their normal transmitting ranges at night.)
US has never admitted to its war crimes or punished anyone.
The fact that they were awarded medals is ridiculous lol, embarrassing really. I can understand how this would happen in a high tension conflict zone but awarding medals?? As an American I expect better from our military.
If you were on that boat…you’d be wearing your medal proudly. Extremely unfortunate outcome but when you give every warning and get nothing back on a warship with all your friends on board,What would You do?
@@CaptainFordo21 So you would of sat there on a warship and done nothing?
@@CaptainFordo21 Exactly why you’re not receiving a medal. You think the people who have one, look at it and say wow we did a great job? No they feared for their lives and their crew members, and under stress followed proper steps but the unfortunate happened. A medal is to Honor the stressful situation nobody wanted to be part of. Overacting or not sailors did their job in this scenario.
@@pedalshredders1401 No one is denying that the situation was extremely stressful and unfortunate for everyone involved. Not sure how you don't see the irony in receiving a medal like that considering. Yes it may have been given because of the situation but it will always be viewed as disrespectful to the innocent lives that had no say in the matter. I doubt any of them wore it proudly, I certainly wouldn't.
@@vossity It is ironic but I understand why they gave one. Trigger happy or not ,what if it really was an unresponding F-14 like it said it was? Medal not for the outcome but for just doing what they were trained to do in that situation. But I probably wouldn’t of made a big thing of it on national television as not too offend families
I don't place blame too much on the individuals. The mistakes made are well within the range that adrenaline can distort. If the ship was able to provide just a little more detail, this might have been averted. It's a tough sitauation, where as a Naval Captain, you're trained to do exactly what he did. The fog of war is dense and the human brain is only capable of juggling so much at a time
*Thank you!* Someone who isn't blinded by anti-military bias.
@@brigidtheirish Tell me about it. Most of my generation (Z) hates the US military with a fiery passion, and it’s extremely sad to see.
To close to Iranian Shore is why they pickup that F-14....
Same as Malaysian Air that was shot down over the Ukraine, flying across active war zones is very dangerous
I remember when that happened. A French vessel said that they had picked up 2 aircraft. The French were told to shut up. It's possible that the F 14 was ghosting the other plane.
Funny the reality of ship warfare, it's like watching turtles wrestle lol
those guys all screwed up big time and got medals for it?
"A Sophisticated Weapons System Decides To Attack A Plane"
sure blame it on hardware.
Matatan.🤔.
Ribirin HS,
Great documentary very well done,
that was a freak accident they even tried to contact the plane using civilians radio and they didn't answer
It is very easy to say they made a wrong decision when you are not in that situation.
Right I feel bad for the families but completely agree with the decision based on the information and circumstances they had. Best way to look at it is to think of the captain as a parent and the crew his kids any parent worth a damn is gonna do everything possible to protect their kids
@@54racemanNot true. This is war crime plain and simple. You are in areas that you have no authority to be in and not following rules of engagement. Idiots and criminals. They should all have been sentenced to long prison terms. Ironically the US president blames Russia for war crimes for shooting down a jet crossing Russia airspace unauthorized. Russian pilot give multiple warning shots.
"Descending" when it wasn't, and the data indicated it wasn't, was clearly human error.
I blame Iran and the US Navy, but not necessarily the Captain. Not calling out the squawk code seems moronic. I think the Navy made a mistake with training. And the coms sailor f'd up by calling out descending when it was climbing.
The captain made the right call with the extremely limited time and information he had. An attack exactly like this happened a year earlier, he was in an active war zone being engaged by hostile Iranian gunboats, and the approaching aircraft was not responding to their attempts to warn it away. Given these circumstances, he acted to protect his ship and crew from what they all perceived to be a very real threat. They had no way of knowing that it was in fact a passenger jet.
This captain is like Kyle Rittenhouse. He went with guns where there was protest and people on edge and he gets attacked and then he shoots everyone. This captain did the same thing. Had the captain, like Kyle, just stayed home, he wouldn’t have needed to shot down a plane.
@@jaknap1 what an incredibly uninformed take.
I believe that the captain made the right decision, but received the wrong information. Also I don't know the accuracy of the depiction of the squawk display, but the one in the video seems to be able to identify only one aircraft of each type at at time. What if there are several aircraft of the same type in the air at the same time? Since they knew the squawk of the commercial aircraft, they could have used that to identify it when calling on 121.5. As far as I can see, that was the only info they had on that aircraft other than it's position, heading, altitude, etc.
@@jaknap1 i get your point but the problem here is that kyle wasnt ordered to go there by the military. this guy *had* to be there legally. If he wasn't the captain someone else would have been, unlike kyle rittenhouse
Bro in the ship firing to the flight the ship was in the Iraq s border of sea and the flight path all so do you see the last part of the documentary
Just human error everywhere. A series of unfortunate events. However under the same situation and same info, i can't say i would have done anything different. War sucks.
Not just human error. There are places the system itself could have been better updated, like having a radar system that read back complete Mode 3/Mode C data AND display it on the radar screen. Air Traffic Control back then had this capability. Likewise, the procedures had at least two instances. like the reference to an undefined "Local Time" instead of ZULU time used by civil air authorities and the lack of identifying aircraft using transponder (Squawk) codes instead of relative flight information. Any one of those things could have averted this disaster.
Shows how well we train our people when they can't tell the difference between going up and going down and the fact the jet fighter would have been flying much faster if it were descending. At that range they could have looked through a pair of binoculars to tell what the plan was.
9 miles? sure
Please remember visibility was low at time, And fighter with full load of weapons would have been not going much faster
@@kennethmeyer3691 laugh my ass off a fighter fully loaded with fuel and weapons would be traveling faster to maintain flight these armchair quarterbacks don't know anything about flight
Watching this for the first time on July 3rd. That's kinda neat.
The Iranians knew that their boats were In a battle and sent an airliner into the battle. What did they expect would happen.
The Iranian Military did. Now, we don't know what information the civilian air authority had at the time, but the military should have shared this information with the controllers. Kind of, "Hey, the heats on here. Don't send flights this way." I'm pretty sure the civilian ATC would not have routed that flight through an active war zone if they knew.
One wonders why the course of the aircraft was not known in advance and plotted on the screen, why there was no communication and why it was possible to misjudge the ascend for a descend. I hope that such errors are no longer possible by today's standards.
There you have it, simply ordering check and re check your monitors could have safe those lives.
Was it fear that created this tragedy (last lines of the episode) or aggression, another basic human instinct?
The captain's chair is an electric chair which few understand . He is responsible for the safety of each of his crew members . He has to work under tremendous pressures that will probably buckle a submarine . So next time you cross paths with the captain of a ship...merchant or military , give them their due respect .
Regarding the incident , I can only say it was very unfortunate . The radio operator should have called the aircraft referring the aircraft's identity code and he would have got a reply . The same holds true for a meechant vessel ....instead of course n speed , you must use the call sign in order to get a tesponse back .
I think both sides, US and Iran, made mistakes that lead to the tragedy. Though, I am making this judgement based only on the information from the documentary.
The ironic part of this is that just five years earlier, the US ripped the Soviets a new one for doing the exact same thing.
I keep hearing the same phrase "The Navy does not require "...well maybe they SHOULD REQUIRE a bit more don't you think??
Even with all the human errors, one thing I can't wrap my head around is lets say Iran Air was actually an F-14. The F-14 is an intercepter, that to my knowledge can't carry ASMs, and it's alone. Yeah he can straff the ship, but then you would be able to visually identify it.
You're making a number of assumptions the captain didn't have the luxury to make.
It is true that the US config of the F14 didn't include ASM capability.
But these were planes sold to Iran and in their possession for a few years at this point. The captain didn't have the luxury of assuming that the Iran military was still running the "stock" specs, and hadn't modified it for targeting naval ships.
It was, he thought, an enemy war-plane heading right towards him.
He had to assume that a war-plane invading his space would only do so if it was capable of being a threat.
Second-guessing a potential threat's intentions is not taking care if his own ship and crew--which are the captain's first and main priorities. Especially if that ship and crew is already engaged in battle.
The video points out that an Iran fighter had already succeeded in an ASM attack on a naval ship. And that the captain of that ship had lost his career because he didn't defend his ship from the attack.
@J B Here's a nugget of truth, ALL F-14 have never carried or fired an ASM. The biggest modification I can think of that is Iranian is they can carry modified Hawk SAMs instead of the Aim-54. Remember as well if the CWIS did its job, one missile isn't going to hit the ship, and war would be declared that night, or the next day.
@@ViperPilot16 Wrong F-14D did carry bombs and ASM missles The missle which not ideal could be carried And no one had the luxury to wait and see..
@kenneth meyer F-14D was only flown by the USN, and not Iran. Try again
@@ViperPilot16 We did not know want modifications the Iran had did to the plane
How about a video about: TCG Muavenet (DM-357) (previously USS Gwin, transferred in 1971) was a destroyer minelayer of the Turkish Navy crippled by two Sea Sparrow missiles fired from the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga during a NATO exercise in Saros Bay, Turkey in 1992, resulting in five deaths and 22 injured among its crew.
the misleading titles are unnecessary, the shows are quite good
To this day the US has refused to apologize.
Did either vessel (aircraft and ship) have communication abilities for civilian aircraft? To me this was a horrible chain of events that ended tragically. I’m 54 years old so this occurred in my late teens.
The ship attempted to contact the plane on the international civilian emergency frequency, the only civilian frequency they had access to. The plane didn't respond.
@@brigidtheirish
"The Vincennes transmits three radio warnings on the civil distress frequency in the very last minutes, but they fail to identify who exactly they are addressing. Its radio crew cite the aircraft's ground speed while Flight 655 is operating on airspeed. The plane's airspeed could have been 50 knots slower than the speed mentioned by the Vincennes."
"During its flight, Flight 655 transmits a unique squawk code that tells radars what flight it is. Had the Vincennes used this specific code when addressing the flight crew, the pilots could have immediately realized they were in a danger zone. However, the U.S. Navy does not train radio personnel to use this standard code when talking to civilian aircraft."
So yeah, that's why the plane didn't respond, lol.
@@luffypilled They were addressing the only aircraft on radar and using the squawk code in their address wasn't required at the time. I would think that the pilots would know they were the only plane in the area and respond.
@@brigidtheirish
The pilots likely believed there was an Iranian P-3 Orion in the area that was being referred to. Not to mention these communications were only given in the last few minutes before the plane was shot down. If they actually had attempted to communicate further or earlier, then perhaps the Iranian flight would have responded.
@@luffypilled Oh, gee, the military responded quickly to a perceived threat. How horrible. Three attempts isn't *nearly* enough, after all.
The *only* mistake was the radar operator mistaking a climb for a dive.
Prayers for the families.
Not trying to downplay the tragedy, but could you imagine if your call sign was “Ocean Lord”. 😂
The ships should be able to use all bands and frequencies to talk to all people with radio's such as ships and planes
They thought it was an F-14. If in fact it was and it attacking, the ship would have known it was targeted and locked.
it wouldnt? its not a jet
I really enjoy your videos and you folks are usually excellent about attention to detail. However, looking at the Sailors during the re-enactment in the CIC, I see a glaring error. Yes, the Navy's Enlisted Chevrons have the point of the chevron pointing down. Above the chevron is an Eagle. What you folks did, in the re-enactment, is to use what appears to be US Army chevrons sewn on inverted.
Overall, this video was excellent! I just wish you had paid more attention to detail on the uniforms.
I remember this incident quite well. I was a young Captain (US Army) when this incident occurred.
Why didn't the captain just change course, like hard to port, and then see if the aircraft changed course and followed? He could have done that early on. But then, what do I know?
Uhm kinda hard to do that when you’re actively fighting a gun boat lol
Basic math was the problem of the commander..
If it was really an F14 diving towards them then it should be less than 9secs upon missle intercept.. F14 diving MUST BE intercepted earlier than 10secs vs A plane maintaning its altitude with more than 10secs TO BE intercepted with a missile.. i therefor conclude that under immense pressure of the situation if my missiles wont/cant/shouldnt/musnt intercept after 9secs then i should destroy the missiles..
Are we supposed to feel bad for the Captain who effectively killed all those civilians just because he is shown crying and really-really hoping he didn't do it?
Worldwide its negligent pilots that dont use their radios because they just wanna chat. Its very normal for militaries around the world to engage but of course not fire on civilian planes because pilots notoriously don't communicate.
Based on the information that was given to him and the timeframe that he had to make the decision, he made the logical decision to shoot down the plane, he is not guilty.
Other captains in his position would have made the same decision.
@@Farquaad101 and they too would've made the wrong one, been responsible for the death of civilians from a different country and also just gotten a slap in the wrist. Had the plane and the dead been American, that guy would've needed to actually own up to his actions and their consequences, not just gotten away with a "oh, my bad... Sorry 😔"
@@WickedElfie Based on the information that was given to him he made the logical decision, the problem was that the information was false, therefore the blame goes to someone or something else and not the captain.
Im surprised they did this all without visual contact. Sounds like it could have been seen with binoculars. Below most cloud levels.
As an American, this is DISGUSTING. I’m ashamed that the captain and crew are awarded for killing another countries civilians IN THEIR OWN TERRITORY! They should’ve have been charged.
You took the words right out of my mouth! I came to write nearly the exact same comment.
Yes
The United States have killed thousands of innocent women and children in every war that they have fought. Most times the United States have no lawful reason to be in countries they invade.
Before you’re quick to judge in 20/20 hindsight, put yourself in their shoes. Should they have received awards? I don’t think so. Actually, they were charged under UCMJ. He delayed firing until the last minute. Whether we should’ve been there in the first place is another argument. It’s like being a cop that has to shoot a suspect… how harshly do you judge?
The captain should have been discipline for letting it get that close to his ship.
The captain thought it was a "coordinated strike" by air and sea, when *he* was the one engaging the gunboats?!
Did you miss the entire part where the gunboats shot at the helicopter first?
@@Dead1yCool Hey quick question: How did the helicopter get there? Did the gunboats come to it, or did it come to the gunboats?
@@dracorex426 you forgeting to add that all this is happening more than 4 km in iranian waters
@@dracorex426 it was an authorized to check what those gunboats where up to. It was them who wanted to see, another who authorized the event. Human error all the way. The warship shouldn’t have engaged too far unless required to. In this case, they are authorized but not required to. Another human error.
Also about the ‘to see what the gunboats are upto’. Its important to know and confirm due to them having to protect oil tankers and stuff. Its not rare event to send helicopters to check on situations or other vessels.
But this is from my own knowledge, which I do not have much of. So anything I say may be incorrect. I do agree on the warship having a huge accumulation of human error leading to this misfortune though.
@@dracorex426 so your plan is to conveniently ignore the fact that when Iran did the reconnaissance, the same ship let them do it without firing on them because they communicated. You definitely cant get ahead by shooting yourself in the foot.
i dont get why the captains of these ship dont properly utilise their ships AA. On an approaching air, prioritise the CIWS cover angle and move the ship away as that gives more time to deal with the aircraft and any missiles launched. These ships also have flares as well. Given the enemy are gunboats it is better to prioritise against the air so the first thing is to move the ship away from the aircraft to increase the time and to have as best ship AA cover angle. The incident this video talks about a year earlier is quite the question of why the ship features were not used.
I know simulators arent as accurate but having the AI spam loads of fighters when they can, being able to not get hit is important. The other problem is using the main guns from far, the accuracy is terrible so you are unlikely to get any kills that way. The CIWS is an amazing weapon and the american ones also have backup tracking. They have decent accuracy as well. In that area, the only reliable way to attack ships is to launch missiles from as far as possible unlike in the battle of falklands where the only way to get a hit is to launch from as close as possible as land cover was possible.
Commendations for the crew members was a despicable move by the Navy and this tragic act of aggression by an American warship on a civilian airliner squaking a civilian aircraft identification, should have resulted in court martial proceedings against at least several of the officers.
There's a video above these comments. You should watch it.
@@BilbertZimms great suggestion and I took you up on it and watched it a second time. My opinion of the outcome didn’t change one bit. The airliner was clearly squaking the call sign of a civilian airliner. The stress from being engaged with surface ships clearly overwhelmed this crews ability to make the right choices before firing against an air target too.
Seems, you ended up in a similar condition, with your inability to take note of the underlying facts of the case and at the same time, discern the flaws in the American crews reactions.
The American crew must have known, or should have known a civilian airliner did not have the military radio frequencies that all but three of the warnings were transmitted on.
It’s a good thing you were not part of this tragedy, because if you were, a second airliner might have also been downed with your Willy Nilly approach to facts and indiscriminate trigger finger.
@@lonpearson2134 lol, you get so upset over a comment on a RUclips video. You must live a really sad life.
@@BilbertZimms upset? You call that upset? You don’t know the meaning of the word. I was being thoughtful in my response to you. Getting upset is not something I’m going to do from a dissenting comment, even though it showed little to no thought of all the relevant facts.
Your supposition that I lead a sad life, only reflects on your continued lack of comprehension.
@@lonpearson2134 sure bro
They investigated themselves and determined not guilty of any wrongdoing hmmm....
Am surprised that the initial gun bursts failed to hit their target. Wasted ammo? Why?
When you're in a battle, sometimes it's enough to just pin down or drive off your enemy.
The Iranian flight was NOT squawking on his IFF as required and ignored all contact attempts by the Vincent. Aside from having his IFF initially turned off, joint use any civil/military airbase NOTAMS were not active amidst the erupted combat off-shore. The USS Vicent having been fired upon responded against Iranian naval craft and with the aircraft closing on the USS VINCENT, it took out the aircraft code then sqwaking as an F14. It was not.
Semper Fi, brother!
@@flyingGrandpa Semper Fi brother!
Watch the whole video. That’s not how it happened at all…
I dunno... something coming at me in a fight, I'm taking it down if I can't prove that it's harmless.
Another great video 👍
Plane needed weapon lock warning; mil radar and civilian squawkbox get pinged and painted by warship to create alarm klaxon. Real war that sounds dumb, but in mixed conflict like this it's a very good idea.
We need new content I have watched all of the episodes 😂
Likewise..this title is very misleading
Only the old episodes get licensed for this channel. I had to buy the newer episode on the Kobe Bryant helicopter crash to watch it.
Go back to the original (Canadian) series, with narrator Steven Bogaert.
If you can _find_ them.
My boyfriend says Im morbid..but I say I've never asked for more planes to crash..
Yes love those classic mayday episodes with his voice. Used to watch on tv back in the day.
You can identify the type of aircraft by analyzing its speed. What a donut.
To me the blame lies squarely on those who brought conflict to that area at that time.
The US not only refused to apologize for the incident, it awarded medals over it
The main factor was FEAR felt by all personel in the ship.
Tragic as this is, I agree Iran holds some responsibility for allowing civilian aircraft to fly over hostile areas.
The crew on Vincennes must be very poor in calculating speed. They could not differentiate the profile of an commercial airliner with that of of fighter aircraft which is much faster. This shows their incompetence or incomplete training . And my question is why it was not mandatory policy for the crew to contact an approaching aircraft on the squawk code?
There was a threat, an F-14 even back then would not have to descend to drop a nasty missile.
29:57 was so sad
One might think that since:
1| the US was not in a state of war with Iran,
2| the Iranian military aircraft gave a non-hostile response to radio calls from the Vincennes,
3| the Iranian aircraft flew out of a civilian airport,
4| a civilian aircraft would likely not hear comms on military frequencies,
5| the Vincennes, didn't have civilian frequency capabilities,
6| thru the entirety of US Operation Earnest Will, where US Navy ships protect civilian oil tankers, no Iranian aircraft had attacked a US military asset,
6| the Iranian civilian flight was only ~25 mins behind schedule,
• One might suspect it was a civilian flight in the busy airspace over the Persian Gulf, of which there were approximately 100 commercial flights everyday.
And they were 4k inside Iran’s territory that’s why they got attacked by the boats in the first place.
Military and civilian aircraft take off from the same airfield in Iran. The Vincennes is engaged in Naval combat and picks up an incoming aircraft that does not identify itself and is closing. The Vincennes Captain did what he had to do to protect his crew and vessel. He did the right thing. In combat, you never get a second chance to save your crew.
So Sad To Make A Huge Mistake Like This.