What Germany Can Teach Us About Home Energy | Ask This Old House
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- In this video, Ask This Old House plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey takes host Kevin O'Connor on a tour of Germany with an eye toward renewable energy and sustainable home heating.
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Homeowners have a virtual truckload of questions for us on smaller projects, and we're ready to answer. Ask This Old House solves the steady stream of home improvement problems faced by our viewers-and we make house calls! Ask This Old House features some familiar faces from This Old House, including Kevin O'Connor, general contractor Tom Silva, plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey, and landscape contractor Roger Cook.
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What Germany Can Teach Us About Home Energy | Ask This Old House
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I live in Germany in a new construction apartment. We barely have to turn on our radiators in the winter, the house is so we'll insulated. Downside is condensation, we have to open the windows twice a day to let in fresh air and remove the condensation that has built up.
Crazy how right Richard was seeing this video now about energy independence.
I live in Seattle in a 27 year old house, where we have about 10% more sunshine then Germany. We installed an 8 kilowatt Solar PV system. In the last 3 years we have generated about 66% of our electricity usage. On the conservation side of the equation, we replaced our old furnace with a new heat pump/high efficiency backup gas furnace, old hot water heater with a tankless system, new windows, old light bulbs with LED’s, and added more attic insulation. We had some good local and federal tax incentives, but they are being phased out. Visited Germany a year ago and was very impressed with all of the individual and large scale solar PV systems and large wind turbines. Read they are starting to add battery storage to smooth out their energy generation. Our federal, state and local governments need to be taking a longer term approach to U.S. energy independence.
Jeffrey Thurnau Germany isn't even spending the required 2% of GDP on its defense. With the money they save by usa subsidies, they can afford to build Eco. let's leave Germany and with the cost saving make the usa 100% solar . Nah, the Russians might invade.
Jeffrey Thurnau why are you blaming the government? What do they they have to do with anything? Unless maybe mandate building codes then there is that. But if people (individuals) who take responsibility for themselves and don’t blame government or anyone else take a forward thinking approach and do what they can then that is something. Good jeeorb Jeff!👍🏼
P.S.
Personally I would like to see more micro hydro since it is the most efficient means to create electricity. Every gutter, storm drain, Anything with moving water with a turbine on it. If you have property with a stream then booya! Free energy and money maker all in one. There are high pressure systems for people that have sufficient head and high flow low head systems for larger streams with low head drop.
if I am not mistaking, anything that you over-produce from a grid connected PV system gets fed into the grit at close to market rates. Makes the cost for the system easier to swallow. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
Germany is becoming more energy independent on Russia with each passing year, not less. They even brought up in the video about how they are getting rid of their nuclear power plants. You know those things that generate clean energy 24/7 for millions of people in a safe manner. They may be inventive and creative in making individual homes more energy efficient but they are idiots when it comes to the bigger picture.
@@robr7200 The problem we in Germany have is, that we don't know where to store the nuclear waste of these power plants, where it can radiate for 10.000 years to come.
Something nobody ever thought of and none of these plants owners ever had to worry about, not even financially.
Privatising the profits, socialising the losses - I think you know very well what that means.
The russians have a technology that could use the standard nuclear waste and suck the last bit of energy from it that is possible, so it doesn't radiate 10.000 years anymore, but only a few hundred.
But nobody talks about that - because it's the russians, that have that technology.
I am German and I had absolutely no idea this was going on in Germany, I learned something new so thanks for that.
+botibomaus Where are you from? These government-funded energy projects are existing for round about 15 years. =)
Kay Bartel Braunschweig tho it isnt really about location, moreso about the news etc I follow (or dont follow) lol
Das kann natürlich auch sein. Ich dachte nur, dass evtl. in eher ländlichen Gegenden - Und dort wo viele Neubauten entstehen - das Bewusstsein für diese Förderung vielleicht etwas ausgeprägter ist. So habe ich z.B. auf dem Land, im Schwarzwald, wesentlich mehr von diesen Subventionen mitbekommen als hier in Hamburg. Hier vor Ort in der Stadt, hört man nur gelegentlich etwas von Energiebilanzen und Zuschüssen für Fassendämmung von Wohngebäuden. ;)
I guess you didn't build a house.
You misspelled "taxpayer-funded".
I am German and what I really missed in this video are the passive houses. We build houses, or upgrade old houses to so called passive houses. They don't need heating at all. The isolation of the houses are that strong, that they get warm with only body heat and the electronic devices used in the houses. Additional solar pannels were placed on the roof, so that the electricity is almost only coming from that. Even -20 degree Celsius are no problem for this kind of houses. The downside is that the Isolation or upgrade is very expensive. The upside of it is, that you never have to bother about heating bills and it is energy efficient.
+Richard Schmid
Energy plus houses are likewise not mentioned.
+Richard Schmid Just to clarify, you are talking about insulation, not isolation.
+Richard Schmid Yea, I missed that too. Here in Freiburg we have nearly an entire block (Vauban, you pronounce it the french way) of the cities covered with these passive houses. The rents are even more expensive than the rest of the city.
+Richard Schmid
You forgot the biggest downside. They easily overheat in summer and need air conditioning.
That can be a problem, but things like good ventilation, reflective shades and smart refrigerators that direct the heat inside in the winter and outside in the summer can help a lot. With those in place, air conditioning won't be a major power consumer either.
One of the key elements you completely neglected is the fact that German houses use 2 main features to be so efficient. The first is thick concrete or brick walls with up to 12" of closed cell foam cladding on the outside of the house. This provides a ridiculous amount of insulation as well as preventing any air leakage. The second is the thick stone walls buffer temperature so that during the summer they open their windows to let in the cool air to chill the stone, then in the morning you close up all the windows and drop the window shades to stay cool all day without any A/C. Then during the winter, you open your window shades during the day to let in as much sun as possible to warm the place up and at night the window shades act as another thermal layer for the windows.
These same principles can be applied to american houses quite easily. In northern areas where they timber frame houses they use polyurethane structural insulated panels up to 6" thick to provide up to R40 level insulation.
R40? I am from Missouri, the Show-Me State.
@@PaulHenreid The "show me" state, but apparently not the "perform basic google search" state... lol SIP insulation rating is only 2 clicks away!
@@MasterQuack14 I called BS and was right. For the time it took you to write that you could have answered the question. This proves you exaggerate the value of 6” SIP insulation at R40.
@@PaulHenreid true. this vid briefly showed the insulated style of brick/block they use in new construction there. made by the giant gmbh company weinerberger, each euro block has honeycomb air pockets sometimes filled with insulation. that stone type thick wall (measured in U value not R) is way better that sips here
I lived in Germany and I was just amazed at how beautiful and how efficient they are we can learn so much from them
I love this show. I have been watching for years. Man, I am getting old, but I am learning a lot thanks to this show
Keep in mind that the climate in Germany is, on average, much more temperate than it is in much of the United States, so it would make sense that their home energy consumption is half per capita.
you looked to much fox news? Only Alsaka is colder than Germany ... some US states are similar cold BUT MOST US states have MUCH more temperature... www.eldoradoweather.com/climate/world-maps/images/world-temperature-map.png ...this puts u even more into shame that most of the US citizen life in much warmer invoriment and still need twice as much heating
@@nagmashot
Actually being in hotter climates per population location requires more cooling energy. Also worth noting the U.S. regulations aren't quite as stringent, but we are headed that way in the future I imagine.
We have new york which is colder and places like California and texas and florida which is a large percentage of the population. They require lots of AC in southern populous areas.
It also doesn't help that the u.s. runs on 120v systems mostly...220-240 is more efficient.
@@nagmashot You're not too bright, North American weather while on average over a year is similar it is actually because the summers are quite a bit warmer and the winter is colder. Outside of the coastal areas in the US, North America has a pretty unforgiving climate. The us generates so much Co2 largely because of climate and the lack of population density. These complex systems are great for plumbers, servicemen, and their manufacturers but the complexity of such systems is a liability. I look at the reliability of the ungodly expensive mod-con boilers I have and frankly it isn't worth it. Nobody wants to talk about it but insulation and quality windows and doors are one of the biggest energy issues in North America.
That was so great! Love that This Old House is on board with renewables and energy efficiency.
"This is one of the newer buildings only 120 years old"....
@1:10 it is actually chambered CLAY brick construction. More specifically, no mortar is visible, so probably a dryfix system of some sort (polyurethane foam to serve as mortar). Altough on the outside everything looks the same, on every edge and every 4 meters or so special hollow bricks are used, armature is put in and concrete is poured, to form a vertical reinforcement column that is at the same time anchored into lower and upper slab armature. This is not only in Germany, it is a standard EU building code
@Beer400C It's a culture thing. Germans are very much into up-front cost to save in the long term. Americans seem to lean much more towards flashy but dysfunctional - the "We can just buy a new one on finance later" mentality.
It wasn't concrete block construction, it was porotherm. It's like a clinker with isolating pores.
+TremereTT It´s a Brick-Block-Construction with a lot of holes in it, sometimes filled with insulating material. ;)
1:10 Those hollow clay blocks (sometimes called tiles, for some reason) were gaining popularity in the USA about 100 years ago, but they got a bad name in the collapse of the Knickerbocker theater in Washington DC; the real problem was the fact that the roof trusses sagged and the anchoring into the supporting walls fell apart, but the blocks got the blame in most people's eyes. Since then, almost all of the blockwork in the USA has been concrete. They look interesting, but I don't know how easy it would be to make them earthquake resistant, as is required in many parts of the USA; they didn't perform well in the recent Italian quakes, from what I've read.
Those building "bricks" provide NO thermal insulation whatsoever. I don't care if you fill them with the best insulating material on the market, you still have a mechanical bond between the two faces made of the same clay. There is NO thermal break. Now you can build the wall with two layers of brick and place thermal insulation between the layers however where ever there is a window or door in the wall, the area is filled with the same brick material to build the frame. This equates to NO herbal break. Now if you were to use a wood and plastic laminate to join the two wall sections together for framing in doors and windows you could create a better thermal break, not the best but better than brick.
@Charles Yamamoto jup
@@pcno2832 In Germany they can build without a concrete frame because there are no earthquakes. I live in Romania, and we have earthquakes, the frame of the house is built with steel and concrete but the walls are build with bricks like that. The same is also for flats, concrete frame, brick walls.
Very nice to see this.
At 4:47 I want to add, that it's also very common to use Solar to heat up the main tank, not some additional "shower tanks".
Radiators, showers and sinks get their hot water from the same tank (but not from the same pipe system)
So it is even possible to shut down the boiler on sunny winter days.
Keyboard runner Schwaba forever! Lol.
I lived in a small German farming village in Bavaria for 8 years, (1997-2005). It was an older single family house. We had individual radiators in each room with a central fuel oil boiler in the basement that provided the hot water for the heating system and for personal use. It was nice to easily control the heating of each room separately. We had a huge storage tank for fuel oil that cost a small fortune to refill each year. Petroleum is very expensive there. I did see many homes with solar panels, but never saw wood pellets being used.
Wood pellets are pretty new for germany i think
Guys, it's a nice video and you are doing a great job explaining what can be done. One thing you are neglecting entirely and which I think is the most important of all, is insulation. I used to live in SC for a long time and I did own a newly built house there.
The way most houses are built in the US are simply a joke. First I thought, insulation would be as it was, because my house was in the South, but during my travels through the country, I realised that the 2x4's with the cardboard on the outside, dry wall on the inside and a bit of rock wool in between is also the standard in cold states like Michigan and Minnesota. When we had a power outage in the summer, it took about an hours to have the same climate inside the house than what it was outside. In my high efficiency house in Germany, the temperature inside the house stays about the same in the winter for almost two days, when the heater is out. I think that's where the most potential lies for energy saving in American homes.
Our houses are built differently for a variety of reasons that mostly center around cost. We have plenty of forested areas and therefore a cheap source of wood. We generally have cheap electricity and therefore additional insulation has less of a financial benefit. We have plenty of space to change or expand on our wooden houses, and therefore they are changed frequently which does not allow long term investments to pay off.
Well, here we go again. I lived in Germany, outside of Hannover, as a student during 1961. The house was built with walls of concrete block and floors of concrete and was heated with hot water fed by coal briquettes; it was not insulated. We wore sweaters and heavy wool pants. At the time, most Germans lived in apartments of about 1,000sf. or less. Eat and sleep there, the parks and woodlands are for exercise and being a social people we would go out for a cup of expresso and good conversation or to the theatre. In 1990 I returned as an executive of a German company, communting between the US and Germany so I spent three months in Germany every year. My five star German hotel; i.e., built for German businessmen was not air conditioned and the rooms were small. Fine, I ate out. I visited a new German home of a German executive. It was small, compact and very comfortable. But few American women would accept a railroad kitchen that was perhaps 7' x 11'! Or a house of 1,400sf. We have a lot of homes in the US that use biomass to aid in heating, I grew up in one. The walls at the base were 48" of stone, tapering to 24" at the second of three floors. Warm in the winter, cool in the summer. What we lack are the small towns where everyone knows one another and instead of spending our money and time maintaining a large house we get together at a pub for whatever and good conversation. No, we have McMansions and mostly keep to ourselves. I sold mine and moved to a house half the size. My bills for electricity, heat, hot water, gas stove and clothes dryer averages about $110/month - less than a third of what I was paying. BTW, the area shown in Franfurt were apartments meant for life long living.
BobClemintime I think that was the OP's point when they said insulation is a "joke" in America. We do what's cheap, and what's cheap here is a joke. The low cost of fossil fuel electricity, for example, encourages us to rely on those fossil fuels in hilarious fashion.
Its not just the isolation. Its drag, drag from cracks in the walls or around windows/doors and also drag from their large ventilation ducs (from their HVAC systems). Also a bad thing about their HVACs is that they dont recycle the heat from old air before blowing it outside, they always take in new air, heat/cool it then push it out as it is. If the heating pump inside the HVAC stops working or gets slow/bad after a while (which they usually do without proper maintance) it pushes out the warmth really fast. In europe our ventilation systems usually take the heat from the old air before letting the old air our, and then put that heat in the fresh air it takes in.
Stefan Günther i think if the oil lobby wasn’t so strong in USA we would have better insulated homes also but we know oil runs American.
That small scale gas generator was something new for me, when I think about it it should be easy enough to diy one from a gasoline powered car and it could run on biogas easily in a farm, pretty cool!
I'm of German ancestry, so thank you for this visit to Germany! It's so beautiful.
I think the best parts of this energy strategy are the high insulation, the use of geothermal and the ability to flexibly use several sources of energy, depending on price and conditions. Adding wind and solar are nice for when those are available, and the use of super insulated water tanks to store the energy is great. This can be used to store any kind of energy.
I think in America the main thing we need to do is to build and retrofit much more insulation. Insulation works with any kind of energy.
Another way to store some of the energy might be to pump water up into a cistern or water tower. The pump would work slowly and use any surplus energy when it's available, and then you are storing kinetic energy. To regain some of the energy, you could put a water wheel into the water return, and this could be converted easily to electricity. Gravity as an energy well.
Energy independence will help America in many ways. And individual energy independence will help Americans be more resilient during energy price fluctuations, and threats to our supply sources during wartime.
It would be nice if we could take our utility rooms with us when we move. I think that is what is so attractive about off-grid tiny homes.
Someone should invent a utility room that you could rent to own, and drive it up to a house like a storage truck and just hook up the connections. A room that size would look like a storage shed next to the house. Or it could go into a garage or on a porch slab.
I always thought it was ridiculous to use electricity to cool a refrigerator in winter. All we need is a temperature-controlled fan with access to outside air in the cold weather.
And every home should have an exercise machine connected to the grid.
Great ideas, especially the exercise machine, but far more the drive up outside utility room. And have to say living in upper NYS, that outside use of the cold to a refrigerator, genius!
Loved seeing the efficiency of these German homes.
Wow, I love energy efficiency. I have a great HVAC background, so energy efficiency is a huge part of that. Germany is on level 1000%
Insulation, insulation and more insulation. Then the rest could be done with renewable energy.
and gray!
Then why does Germany got to keep burning coal like crazy and their power prices are three and a half times higher than the American average. All the installation in the world's not going to keep your house warm or cool and comfortable you're going to need a heating cooling system.
ruclips.net/video/gHqBBoDENQw/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/h6NTJZqhXE8/видео.html
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50% of house buliding costs in germany are 'ecologicall' cost! Costs with no savings for heating or energy, no return of investment.
These costs are taxes!!!
@@benkuxhouse787 Also, France which gets most of its electricity from nuclear is the world's biggest exporter of electricity. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
@@grasonicus you forgot to mention the power rates are also some of the lowest in Europe for France
I need a german boiler!!!! TOH please send me one asap. Hehehehe. Thanks for a great video. Richard RULES!
We've been leader in clean free home energy in my country for far longer than the German (no disrespect, they are a great people) , so on your next trip to visit Germany , drop in Iceland to know what it really means to be earth friendly. My grand mother has had solar panels on the roof of her 600 years old house for more than 2 decades .
To give some perspective: my three bedroom house has consumed about 3500 kWh last year. I've got a total energy bill of 70€ per month (24€ct per kWh). This is for heating, hot water, and electricity.
Triple glazing, 25cm of insulation, heat pump heating system. Standard equipment for any new house in central Europe. Peak room Temperature in a very hot summer (~39/102F for two weeks straight) was about 26C/79F. This is without any AC.
New houses in Germany have often underfloor heating combined with a heat pump or efficient gas heater. The underfloor heating need just temperature of 30 - 35 degree Celsius warm water to heat the building and often not more than 5kw energy when you have outside -16 degree to heat the hole house on 21 degree.
For the heat pump is the Ringgraben Kollektor a cheap and self made energy source. A COP of 5 is normal. (1 kwh electrical producing 5 kwh heating)
Underfloor heating is very inefficient.
@@thomaswayneward Only when done the American way without real screed and too much spacing between the heating tubes. We space the tubes around 2-4 inches apart.
Then 2-3 inches of screed is poured.
My radiant heat system requires water temperatures mostly under 80-90 F in the winter.
I have seen American installations for radiant heat with 10 inches gap and wood floors above. Of course this can not work with low temperatures.
I reckon those solar panels are going to be a pain in the neck after a few years in the weather. Quite happy my 'mechanical room' is a cupboard and I don't have to think about it much.
Love this old house! I also have been watching German house building. Look into Huf House. They build the house in a building put it on a truck, set it up mostly finished and beautiful on your property. I watch building shows because I am designing my own house. I started to look at older homes as well. Like pounded earth buildings from China. Viking long houses. Half underground homes in Ancient Europe. And American Indian houses from ice age down to this time. I am glad I live now instead of Ancient time. Thanks for the Energy Tour.
Love you for this video I am plumber and crazy about to learn new things
What they don't mention is that the key in consuming less energy for heating is insulation. There, the laws are also very strict in germany.
And the insulation - in germany in combination with solid stone walls - helps saving energy also during summer.
Stone is a very poor insulator.
He might have forgot to mention electricity is 3x more expensive here in Germany :-D
I'm curious -- what's the price? Here in San Francisco it is about $0.25 per kWh, which is notably higher than in many other places in the US.
@@dosadoodle same but in euro... it's not soooo expansive, just compared to our neighbor's
I'm in Illinois and i pay about 10 cents per kwh
@@umerstar yeah but I pay 20 cents more and I can use 100% green energy and also my house is so efficient I barely need 15€ per month for 4 family members.. And a dog :D
@@dosadoodle Denmark: $0.34 per kWh.
Great to see these kinds of investments of renewable energy and sustainable home heating
Where I live in Canada we have lots of oil, natural gas, and coal. I guess we are lucky in that sense. Most homes here are heated by gas too. But we also have a lot of wind and sunshine so I'm starting to see more solar panels and wind generators.
The one thing that they don't mention is that Germans (and Europeans) are very conservative when it comes to resources, whether it be water usage, heating etc. From many visits with my relatives its rare that they take really long showers like North Americans do. Despite living in Canada several hours north of the border, I heat my home warmer than most here and in Europe. I did notice in the Netherlands that in many washrooms (both at tourist attractions and private homes) where there is only a toilet (not a full bathroom with bathtub/shower) there is only cold water.
Meanwhile here in the us, I'm fighting my hoa for the right to put panels on my roof.
I'm having the same issue.
Many divergent intersections in a diverse society.
@Alden Buyer individual Independence can be a good thing. But my parish priest claims we are all interdependent.
Ugh I would never own a house that is tied with an HOA
I’d tell them to stick it and do it anyways, try to stop me.
Amazing,I appreciate multiple use our indigenous energy sources available.
Great video! 👍👍👍 omg i want that mechanical room, or call it a plant room 😎
This is a nice video of Germany I love some of the buildings and the architecture ,just look at some of the houses they have
Very nice ! That mechanical room looked quite interesting as well I believe all the equipment and the storage tanks , the wood pellet burners et cetera were all made by viessmann ?
Yes
Cool stuff... I wanna see a tear-down of that generator shown at 6:30!
You should googel for "Dachs BHKW" or "Dachs generator", which is a famous one.
Watching this in Fall of 2022, God Bless them all
The red material is not concrete but rather a certain type of modern brick with lots of holes . Look up “Porotonstein” for further information.
the houses and landscaping in Germany also looks awesome!
@juscurious what??? In what Germany do you live? The Germany of 1950?
@@arvedludwig3584
no - it´s now! She´s right.
We do not have enough energy in this way.
Mrs Merkels special ideas...
@juscurious Most people don't even want a simple garden anymore. Stone gardens so that zero time need to be spend on it. I hate this. I have a garden which i just let grow. Neighbours hate it, they are scared in a few years it's my Jumanji trap for their kids.
Makes me proud to be Part German))
@@arvedludwig3584 Regarding the lack of trees in the neighborhood and houses not having yards, I took the wrong train from Dusseldorf to the Airport and ended up in a little village and there were plenty of trees and houses did have yards, small by US standards but they did have them.
If you had ever seen what those roof- mounted panels look like after a major hurricane, you'd know why they're not more popular here in Florida.
Polo Mare that is why you adapt the methods to the environment.
@@francoisehembert3243 So much wisdom, wow I am just in awe of your brain power. Maybe Florida can power their homes from empty slogans.
Chuck R at least you have the smarts to recognize genius
yet still they build houses from cardboard
Awesome efficiency 💪🏽✅
No fuel of their own? Germany is still the largest consumer of coal in Europe, which is mined domestically. With regards to biofuel, Germany torches half of its annual timber harvest, an 18th century phenomenon.
Ok I keep hearing about the efficiency and savings but nothing about the upfront cost.
They didn't get into specifics, but they did mention a 7 year payback on investment. That's equivalent to investing money and getting a 14% return every year, tax free. Even Warren Buffett can't beat that!
Btw: free from nuclear means relying on coal. So they switch from clean energy to not at all clean energy.
Yes this is unfortunately very true. Since Germany shut down most of it's nuclear power plants our CO2 Emissions are going up a lot. Really not what you want if you want to fight climate change.
@@alexanderschoneberg8610 Thats not true. Get your facts straight. 2000: 10 tons per person now 8.8 tons per person.
@@alexanderschoneberg8610 but coal will be shut down as well very soon...hopefully....... in rural areas it might not be such a problem with them having access to wind energy, solar
but I fear for the big cities, they still heavily rely on energy mostly nuclear!
Why not switch to Thorium? It produces less waste, is a lot safer and more abundant. It is a good stop-gap till solar and wind technology can produce enough to sustain the population, not to mention become more affordable.
@@alexanderschoneberg8610 co2 is fake news
Wunderbare ! Danka.
Yes they are. I build a new house and used underground absorber-mats 120 sq meters and a heat pump and underfloor heating. I can heat my house in the dead of winter for less than 60 euros a month using thermo energy. Plus i have 10 cm of insulation.
I would like to see system diagrams of the buildings discussed in this video.
I laugh when they can't believe how clean the rooms are. News flash. Germans are very clean and take pride in keeping their country clean. You drop a piece of paper on the ground someone will tell you to pick it up.
No
Lol nope Americans are the cleanest in the world. Europeans did not start using deodorant till the 90s lol
@@acommentator69 Look in your neighborhood or the highways and tell me that the U.S. is a clean place. It's not. Germans will tell you to pick up the paper if you drop it.
@@beebob1279 yup your right about littering but I was talking about personal hygiene
I lived in Mainz for three years in the 1970s. I had an "on demand" water heater for the kitchen and bath. Worked flawlessly. I now have one in my home here. Works great but I would have rather had an inside installation, rather than putting it in the garage, Still have the wasted cold water running out of the tap before it gets hot.
I love this episode, don't know why but had to watch it today again. So what companies are using this tech here in the US or North East? How can we find out more about it??
Viessmann boilers in every house!!.
These mechanical rooms cost 25K+ in equipment alone add solar tubes, radiators, controls, piping and labor. I’m guessing it will go over 70K.
We ain’t going to see it in US in 100 years
Agreed also homes in the US are not built for muti generations or multiple families yes condos and apartments but not homes. In Germany it makes sense due to the lifestyle is so much different in terms like the guy said they just replace or build onto an existing home for hundreds and hundreds of years. Most Americans buy new houses every time they get a promotion.
The average american house is garbage compared to these german buildings, if your house is solid and lasts centuries this kind of stuff is worth doing. Not in an american cardboard house that will fall apart in the storm next week.
You'll find Viessmann Boilers in allmost every house here. Mechanicle rooms are by no way cheap, but desinged to last at least for 20 years. You will not be able to sell a house without that kind of heating installed
yandrsupreme never been to Germany, but every single German car has AC in it, so I guess houses do too
@@vitaliypro8441 you are wrong. AC in german houses is rare. Though ACs are slowly showing up in new builds
No mention of the after gases from burning those pellets or, why they've chosen radiant heating (we use convectional, moving air) and how it works with the house's Thermal Mass and Insualtion configuration.
Also, it looks to me like $50k at least went into the "utility" room. That cost doesn't work for most existing houses.
In Germany, it does. The way those machines are priced is that you get your ROI through saved energy costs after around 10 years, probably sooner. Energy costs are high in Germany, so it really pays of to invest in this segment.
However, pellets present a different problem: They still produce CO2 as much as a coal plant would. Sure, its Energy neutral if you grow back the trees you had to cut down. But that more theoretical than actual reality.
Watching this in 2023 is very interesting. Very interesting...
Great video Richard. When I was in the US Navy ,I went to their Machinist Mate class "A" school . They taught us about the steam systems on ships from soup to nuts. .... and it's amazing how the steam starts at hi pressure -hi-temp to run the turbines for main propulsion and as that drops off it is used several times more for other functions. I always wondered why small systems ,much like the one in your video couldn't be used in a home or commercial operation. Good to know that this is NOW happening.
Germany has always been the leader and innovators in most important inventions. Es lebe Dueschland!
Duschland ;-)
Yeah like concentration camps GO GERMANY YEAH!!!!!!!!
Anyone in Germany owning a house sooner or later calculates heating/electricity/warm water and takes advantage of governmental support for new equipment. This is absolutely normal, the benefits are huge. Long term costs are reduced drastically, and not only independence of the country as a whole, but individual independence increases drastically. So it would fit for America as well, since independence is a high value there...
+Schlotzinger Also adds resell value.
Only on paper, though. The US is ruled by the industry and they certainly won't support any technology that would reduce the consumption of their products! Sad but true.
There is only one problem given that america is such a rich country, you have to understand the influence of big corporations ; when you want to upgrade things like your heating by using special techniques the government will stop you and ask you if you have a license and if you don't you'll probably be paying more for the license than what you would've been saveing otherwise. Since these companies supply the U.S government so much money they simply take away the freedoms of the regular folk in doing so.
Bollocks.
From my perspective, the main obstacle in the US is political identity. For some people, energy efficiency is associated with liberalism and is therefore bad. People actually derisively referred to plug-in hybrid cars as "Obama cars".
Great video!
I'm from the UK and that mechanical room is something that doesn't even exist here! We have electrical and gas meters, perhaps a water tank in the attic and maybe somewhere else, a boiler and perhaps a couple small things in the garage.
That mechanical room is bigger than my kitchen! lol 3 systems in one home seems a bit of overkill but maybe that is what we will have in the future, it's just Germany is so far ahead.
WTF. This is my hometown 😂
Marburg?
Mine too
30% renewabel for ANY new building? That is just not true! I am German, I just built my own home and have none of these on my roof. It brings you some financial benefits if you have but it is not mandatory. And by the way .... most new constructed buildings have even floor heating rather than radiators. ;-)
Welcome to the 21st century.
Floor heating standard in korea since the medieval time😂
Yumin S True for those who could afford it
Today is 19th of august 2022. This Video is sie years old now. Here in Germany we are preparing for a winter with nearly no electricity and no heating. Our energypolicy did not work. We wanted to much renewable energy and failed.
Richard is a badass, a real pro.
That's a bit surprising. I live in ND USA and we are basically around the same height (maybe slightly lower) then where Germany is yet solar isn't really popular at all. It's usually considered to be not so feasible because of lack of sunlight for at least 4-6 months out of the year (cause of winter/snow) and we don't get as strong of sunlight. I am curious if Germany also suffers from that of it they are in a different position.
I have been wanting to get solar panels etc for a few years now but the other bad part is that in the USA and ND in general we don't get much for subsidies. Interesting tech being used there in the video though.
well sunhours rise the more u go south. still u dont need direct sun even through clouds the sun is still strong enough to gain some energy from it.
Not sure if you mean altitude or North/South location, but altitude doesn't affect solar performance as the sun is already millions of miles away, so an extra mile to travel won't matter. Northern locations do get less sun, obviously. Unless your electric rates are high, payback on solar is gonna be long unless you DIY. Even DIY in southern Missouri my payback will be around 12 years (cheap electricity), but it's not all about financial payback.
The solar/wind/geothermal subsidy continues into 2021. 2020 it is 26% and 2021 is 22%.
I have a hard time with that second system. How does burning gas to make heat (and hot water) and electricity compute into high efficiency? And, doesn't something *mechanical* that makes heat (the fast moving piston engine) suffer high wear and tear? What about maintenance and/or replacement cost?
It is a CHP system or in dutch WKK. It's nothing new. Just a reverse way to use your thermal losses at a win. It's pretty expensive.
ruclips.net/video/v2wh0N3rE2s/видео.html
the on site generation units are more efficient than utility scale generation (probably excluding nuclear), then there are transmission losses to account for.
This is a surprising technology efficiency gain for me as well. It's not going fossil free, but it's getting more out of what is used, or using less for the same energy at point of use. It's not for everyone but it's got its place and it's superior to gas/propane generator backup units IMO.
Certainly, some maintenance would be part of the upkeep. Even solar panels need the snow or dust swept off from time to time and lose efficiency over time.
1000 percent correct. i lived their and heat my house for 60 euros a month using energy efficient heat pump and 120 sq. meters of absorber mats in the ground collecting earth heat
Fantastisch, wunderbar, ausgezeignet! Wenn wir das nur in amerika hätten!
I saw a report on their use of bio mass. To meet the government requirements they had to resort to importing sawdust from mills in the US. The energy expended to ship the sawdust exceeds the energy contained in the saw dust.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions!
I'd like to see it. I'm not sure I agree with their conclusion... The pellets are mostly made with sawmill residues or non-merchantable trees that would not be used otherwise. I am under the impression that sea transportation (and rail for that matter) is inexpensive and energy efficient, so let me know. Thanks!
...I also read that they reward solar SO much, that a guy bought panels, shone lights at the panels, and sold the resultant electricity back AT A PROFIT even after deducting the use of electricity!
LOL, government incentives just created an [economic] "perpetual motion machine!"
I imagine that since the US exports so few goods, that it's better to fill the ships with SOMETHING for the return trip to Europe. Of course now were going to try being a petroleum exporter thanks to Trumpty Dumpty / GOP.
apparently most other countries in the EU consume more wood from the US than germany:
energytransition.org/2015/03/germany-is-not-burning-us-forests/
also as long as US businesses have no problem in destroying US forrests to sell for overseas what can you do...
A HUGE amount of wood pellets come from wood pallets shipped to Germany from the US that originated from China. Still importing their energy, just from a different source.
Yeah and the deforestation is renewable sure but still a huge ecological problem. Something like 130 acres a day are harvested in Georgia alone for wood pellets.
@@LouieCastro3 The US has more forests than any time in the last 100+ years. Take a look at photos from the 1800's and you will see vast areas denuded and not replanted.
The next house I build will use a good deal of this technology. I won't mind being connected to the grid to sell back to energy so I could reduce electricity cost for myself and others. This tech MUST be the way of the future plus if there is a major outage or disaster people with this technology will be able to get through without much issue. A win win scenario.
"Thanks for bringing us here to Germany and showing us this amazing technology.
... and now it's beer-thirty! w00-h00! time to hit the brauhaus!!! vamanos!"
He also forgot to mention how the Germans can afford this tech. Any one of those mechanical rooms cost more them my house
Most people can't afford a house like this! The home ownership rate in Germany is very low and steadily decreasing. Sure we can boast about having the most energy efficient and modern houses on the planet because our building codes are extremely strict, but building up to that high standard is very expensive. Add some of the worlds highest taxes on top of that and you have a situation where a young family won't be able to buy their own house (or even apartment) unless they pay back a mortgage for the next 30 years. Obviously you also have expensive buildings in the US (especially in and around the bigger cities) but at least you have the option to build inexpensive houses, which we in Germany don't have.
For the combined heat and power system, he did mention that it decreased power consumption by 30% and pays for itself in about 7 years.
I wonder who can afford house like that, they have $20 k back up unit that hardly ever gets to be used? And they call that savings?
without knowing obviously the shown house (3 tier systems are a bit excessive, the norm is 1 regenerative energy and 1 backup pellets/oil/gas), but usually you do a calculation over 10 years or so on savings. Energy is expensive in Germany, you can easily have a 200-300 EUR / month heating bill in older houses.
The short answer is: not a lot of people. Home ownership rate in Germany is at the very bottom among EU countries, while the square meter price of new buildings is among the highest along with France. Yes, they're rock solid, have excellent insulation, and will outlast you, but they sure ain't affordable.
Their houses are cheaper than the overpriced garbage Americans buy
Actually most don't, for example we only got 2 sources of heat in our house but we got really creative
Normal living room fireplaces can nowadays be bought with copper windings hidden in the top that can heat the water really efficiently
Before that we used 100% oil but then installed the new fireplace cutting oil use to about 30-45 percent, then we replaced the 10yr old oil heater and removed half of the oil storage because those babies are way more efficient now
Now we use like 10-15% of the oil we used before and run just on firewood
Also genious thing we made ourselves is that our jacuzzi/whirlpool was once heated electrically by the pump and stuff, we decided to just hook it up like a radiator to our heating system by a small heat exchanger heating the jacuzzi constantly (switching on if it drops low enough) cutting the energy usage for heating on this jacuzzi about 60% which is really big
The upfront cost is only now being realized to be *prohibitive*.
To all you window glazing specialists: simply compare the tech specs of windows on your favorite Home Depot kind of DIY store between Central Europe like Germany or Austria and the US. You will see dramatic differences. Even the cheapest European DIY window is way more energy efficient than almost every US window.
The US could easily produce enough solar energy for the entire nation. You have the gift of real deserts! Germany can produce lots of energy under shitty sun conditions. Think of what you could do in Texas, the Sierra Nevada, the death valley! Boy, all the energy comes in for free. But you prefer to poison your grounds for fracking. I realy don't get it.
+GeilerRitter Same corrupted politicians in congress for the past 30 years. The best explanation I can think off. I can buy a 3kilowatt system for $4000, but the federal required me to pay to get it certify, and it's like $5,000. Its like the inspection sticker on the car, I pay 400 to fix it and they charge me 50 for the sticker. But in steroids.
+GeilerRitter Greed and corruption, along with our cynical and politically inactive population. I am moving to Germany soon, I can't wait!
good luck, and be prepared for cultural shocks ;)
+Judicial78 Don't expect us Germans to be that much better. I can assure you that we have a lot of dump people over here. The funding of solar energy was more of a program for our once leading solar industrie. But when they realized that the Chinese took over they reduced it. Nowadays it's very hard to get a real profit out of it. But back in the days when this was different it lead to really dump thinks like solar fields. It might sound like a good idea to set up a huge array of solarpanels on an open field but it's not. The power of solar energy comes from it being able to be installed on buildings and therefore not using any space at all. And we do have corruption in our parliaments as well, it's not even illegal. It's just called lobbying. Our Back in the late 90s and early 2000s , when the green party was part of our federal government, we had a well designed plan for ending our nuclear power era. It was made in such a way that the energy companies weren't overstrained. But when chancellor Merkel took over leading a coalition of her conservative party and the liberales they cancelled it. The companies had saved money for the expensive teardowns of the power plants and now they added it back to their profits. Liberals in Germany nowadays are well known for being lead almost directly by the industry and that was one of the times they showed it.But when the nuclear accident in Japan happend Merkel couldn't hold her promisses and installed a way quicker and more unrealistic plan of shutting down nuclear power.But this doesn't mean we are all about green energy here in Germany. In fact it's not right that we don't have any resources . We are the worlds biggest producer of brown coal. This coal is a really dirty thing as it's name foretells. It is much less efficient than stone coal and can only be used to burn it in power plants. And it's minded in open mines an therefor destroys villages that comes in her way. And it's very bad for the climate as it produces a lot of CO2. So you see, their's still a long way to go over here, but I don't doubt we are way ahead of the US and they are still not realy trieing to catch us.
NeoDerGrose Thank you for that reply. I read every word and appreciate it. I will admit the whole immigration thing has me a bit worried, and I know that no country is perfect. But I cannot express how difficult it is to live next door to people as ignorant as we have here. Just look at our current election cycle... I am literally embarrassed to be an American right now. I know Germany is not perfect. But it's smaller, has a history rich with thousands of years of culture, and from what I heard from a few friends who lived there a while back, the people are simply better. And that is what I am looking for overall, a better place to live to meet someone and start a family.
This seems great as a concept but who pays for all of this? Does the government subsidise the cost of installation or is it up to the Builder to pass the cost onto the buyer?
It's likely up to the builder since it's energy code/building code law. The customer/homeowner would see an immediate payback in not having to pay outrageous fossil-fuel based energy costs there.
Pay a bit more upfront, but in the long run its much much cheaper and gives you energy independence in your own home.
If the government provides a subsidy, eventually the buyer pays anyway. There is no "free lunch".
Excellent video.
wow, am amaze.
Most people can't afford a house like this! The home ownership rate in Germany is very low and steadily decreasing. Sure we can boast about having the most energy efficient and modern houses on the planet because our building codes are extremely strict, but building up to that high standard is very expensive. Add some of the worlds highest taxes on top of that and you have a situation where a young family won't be able to buy their own house (or even apartment) unless they pay back a mortgage for the next 30 years. Obviously you also have expensive buildings in the US (especially in and around the bigger cities) but at least you have the option to build inexpensive houses, which we in Germany don't have.
Solar energy is free? Do solar panels fall out of the sky in Germany? How can the rest of us get in on this "free" source of energy?
Yes, solar energy is free and no, solar panels do cost money.
Jesus.
It is a very nice video, but when it comes to the comparison in energy consumption, you forgot to mention one of the most important things. Houses in Germany are usually well insulated, and a lot of effort is made to that effect. Especially older houses often have very thick walls and small windows, which keep houses cool in summer and cozy in winter. Newer houses on the other hand have insulation in the outer walls, or have the insulation added as external tiles in recent times.
+juscurious
You can get lower density housing. Higher density housing tends to be cheaper and appeals to people who don't care about a garden.
Plenty of people where I live have gardens but those who grow vegetables must be 1% or less. My eyes pop out when I see how big the gardens for some American homes are. I'd not want them so big as I am too lazy to mow the lawn and it would be too expensive to pave over.
Geothermal heatpumps is where it is at. Vaillant also a german brand, makes some killer systems. Efficiency of 5,5 to 1 compared to gas systems.
Lederhosen in Frankfurt or in Hessen, and you stick out like a typical tourist. Why do you folks think Bavaria is all of Germany?
Same reason that most non-north Americans think that all US-Americans are cowboy hat wearing, gun totin', Trump loving, warmongering environment haters. It's a learned stereotype.
Octoberfest beer movies of course.
@@ericwilliams6391 Aren't we? Wait, I just shot the canary.
I have a large amount of Germans in my city and they wear this on the daily. Shopping at ALDI is the easiest way to find Germans here. If you see a VW in the parking lot, which there are usually several just wait and soon Germans will appear and always in Lederhosen. A few times in summer you may find one on a Harley soaking up the experience but, again full on Lederhosen. On occasion you may see one going towards an Audi again in Lederhosen but, usually also wearing a trendy neck tie.
@@TheMVCoho they are not real germans i live in germany and i cant remember seeing lederhosen in months
What are the water storage tanks called. 4:10....
I've been trying to find them in the U.S. but I've not been successful so far.
Any website would be most helpful. Thanks.
www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNQUrkjMD6YP1bQY9X3w6cRJ9abLSg%3A1577959888541&ei=0MENXsPcIJOF1fAPm_qB0AM&q=Warmwasserspeicher&oq=Warmwasserspeicher&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39j0i67l9.35564.40190..41539...1.2..0.75.212.3......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i304i39j0i13.ffY7af1i2Kg&ved=0ahUKEwjDhIHV1uTmAhWTQhUIHRt9ADoQ4dUDCAs&uact=5
Very impressive. Richard and Kevin did an awesome job explaining how the tech works - and also why the mindset is so different between Germany and USA.
Concrete production is energy-intensive. Lumber is renewable and home can be super-insulated, requiring very little energy to heat, even the people inside and residual heat from appliances and electronics can heat the home.
That's the power of German engineering.
Yeah, just look at the new airport in Berlin (still not open after ~15 years of construction)...diesel gate...and the holes in the roads and bridges that are falling apart here!
I wonder why they didn't talk about passive houses.
Yeah, but a bit of that
is dead...but what is left is simply, that germany has one of the highest quality houses with the highest quality insulation and with that many efficient ways for energy consumption...even if it is a hundred year old...the houses still fulfill more i sulation and quality requirement than any house in the US does.
What I didnt now: Even rich scandinavian countries like Sweden are not even close to such standards....that is why some german and austrian companies recently expanded there to help them out building more than just wooden houses with huge inefficiencies.
I was on holiday and my dogs small house in my garden is similar to their houses...no wonder, that you can buy a house in a swedish village for just some bucks...instead of half a million euros, that a spacey house would cost in germany. Big upper class houses are not built for just 100-200k dollars...the would cost into the millions up to our quality standards.
I travel a lot and I never saw any home coming close to what you see in germany or perhaps switzerland and austria.
+MrStubbs1981 This is mostly because America doesn't have to contend with socialist europe's outrageous cost for oil and natural gas.
Mr. White
Well, you realize that's a point for us since we have developed and established new technologies by the time gas & Co. have all been robbed by the holy USA.
Mechanical rooms are typically not heated and in the basement, so there isn't really any heat loss to speak off by opening a window wide. But it is a good idea to air out your house every now and then.
Do these guys memorize a script ahead of time? How do they explain things so naturally and quickly on camera?
I do not know, but it helps when you know and like your work.
I live in the uk, many days of the year we produce enough renewable power for the hole county. Not just for a short while but for the hole day. Enery from solar tends to be in the hands of house owners, roof solar panels. These willproduse electricity even when overcast. This is due to vast increases in efficentcy in recent years. There will always be need for other power sources then the wind doesnt blow and at night. In Wales there is power station which is hydro electric, which can provide almost instant backup. Their is a utube video showing how this is achieved. What i am saying is there are solutions to problems with renewables.
Mikeythr99 Thru, do a spell check mate,
1:20 this is also why you don't see new houses going up in Germany like he says in 1:05
New york needs this asap
Looks a little complicated but very efficient 😎
that system cost more than my house
@hffp1 must be some serious mandated warranties with it.
VIESMANN TECH!
looks fantastic, but it certainly does not look cheap.
My German house was built in 2006. It is 200 sq. meters and has geothermal floor heating. My electric bill is 130 euros/mo. (no A/C), averaged year'round. The heating system I started with had older technology (Vaillant) so I replaced it 2 years ago with Stiebel Eltron and lowered my utility bill. Cost 13,000 euros of which 4,000 were subsidized by the government.
Steibel Eletron is a great product.
„You see concrete block construction...“ *shows red bricks*
red blocks
I’m not sure but u dumb as hell