Seven Problematic Trends in Apologetics
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- 00:00:00 - Thanks to NewGlof for the time stamps
00:03:25 - Trend 1: Rational but not Obligatory (Intellectual Immodesty)
00:12:48 - Trend 2: the Nice Guy Complex
00:17:05 - Trend 3: The Crusader Complex
00:21:29 - Trend 4: "Pleasing the Donors" Mentality
00:28:35 - Trend 5: "Selling Tickets" Mentality
00:33:10 - Trend 6: Dismissing Scholarship
00:40:35 - Trend 7: The Toll on Apologists
00:43:35 - Alternatives
00:51:00 - Conclusion/Q&A
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Suan Sonna is a Baptist convert to Catholicism who is dedicated to curating the best Catholic intellectual content on philosophy, politics, and theology. He is also passionate about engaging people outside of the Catholic tradition on issues relevant to the Church. 
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3:25 Trend 1: Rational but not Obligatory (Intellectual Immodesty)
12:48 Trend 2: the Nice Guy Complex
17:05 Trend 3: The Crusader Complex
21:29 Trend 4: "Pleasing the Donors" Mentality
28:35 Trend 5: "Selling Tickets" Mentality
33:10 Trend 6: Dismissing Scholarship
40:35 Trend 7: The Toll on Apologists
43:35 Alternatives
51:00 Conclusion/Q&A
I absolutely have a bit of a crusader complex. Between this video and Fr. Pine's recent video on "fighting for the faith", I think God is trying to tell me something
Don:t forget the reality of the spiritual life either. The Lord can and does speak to us as well. Discern the spirits and judge them by their fruits. And does what is called for focus on giving you glory or destroying a group or ideology, or giving God glory and saving souls?
Is it rooted in veritas in caritas. Truth in Love.
If the former, remember we are not the Savior or the King. We serve Christ and we are all sinners and are called even to love our enemies and pray for them.
What then ought we do for our brothers and sisters in Christ?
You seem like a cool guy Suan! It seems really clear in this video you're doing your best to be genuine and sincere
Much needed video. Respect.
Suan not naming names but definitely calling people out
Thanks Suan, I think every apologist I follow has one or more of those traits at various times. I still get a lot out of their channels. Mr nice & innocent......hmmm...now that guy, he's the most dangerous imo 😅 Mr. Crusader, well at least you can see him coming! Agree with you about having a certain respect for those with academic credentials - even if you don't always agree you will certainly benefit from listening & understanding them. Especially when they are speaking from their own field of study.
Jimmy Akin is my no 1 - he has the maturity, wit & charm to match his considerable IQ. Plus he never gets 'low in the mud'. Another would be Dr Pitre & Dr Bergsma and of course Dr Hahn. Giants!
Would love to see another chat between you & The Catholic Brothers sometime! I really enjoyed the last show 👍
Loved your video, Suan! :) On these grounds, I have been thoroughly impressed with many Catholic apologists I have encountered online thus far. Unfortunately, in my field (English), I think that many of these points are not observed among many...if not most...academics. It can be very frustrating! I want to go back into philosophy because of this, but it is so difficult to find good programs that won't make me move!
Thanks for sharing 🙏
I think Jimmy Akin and Erick Ybarra are some of the best apologists who exemplify the opposite of those 7 mistakes yet still make very powerful and persuasive arguments.
The point of most quotes of early Church fathers is to refute the historical claim some Protestants make that Catholic beliefs are much later or medieval accretions rather than what the early Christians believed.
@1:58 Lol, maybe you do want to clear out your "tshrinks in the armor"
is it legit argumen if i say "why same sola scriptura but diferent view about can we lose our salvation?
Ooooh the nice guy. This one is gotta to be a call out on Ortlund. Seriously that man drives me crazy, he acts like hes the nicest guy in the world while calling william albrecht a liar, refusing to debate him on the church fathers, and then when someone notices any if these things he gets childishly defensive.
This was boring lol, i had to stop after 3 mins. But i love the channel :)
Can your first point be somehow the reason for the existence of many apologetics methodologies and some leaning more on one side than the other?
No more or less than it is a factor in any pursuit of the mind, I would say. We have partial knowledge so, various approaches are expected and legitimate means, unless there is an infallible teaching or the evidence utterly overwhelming (for the latter this happens anyway, but it tends to arise as a fringe then.)
Lofton is the only Catholic apologist who I've ever found frustrating and dismissive, when he refused to acknowledge legit concerns with Fiducia Supplicans and portrayed everyone with legit concerns as causing scandal rather than the document itself. Akin, Horn, and Heschmeyer were much more reasonable. William Albrecht is a great researcher and debater, but his rhetoric toward Ortlund was very poor at times with the crusader complex (though not sure I like the name/label for that; overzealous would be better).
I would like to hear more critics actually interact with his arguments instead of criticizing his emphases.
@@jonathanbohl Erick Ybarra has been interacting with his arguments. Matt Fradd/Pints with Aquinas has offered to host a debate/dialogue between the two. Lofton has apparently shut out his former comrades from his channel.
@@tonyl3762 I will simply say there is more to that story and be charitable to all. "Refrain from judging others as from a most grievous evil; rather, interpret every word or action well; with creative charity, find reasons to excuse and defend your neighbor. Whenever defense is impossible, since the fault committed is too obvious, do your best to minimize the blame; attribute it to unawareness, or surprise, or any other suitable reason. At least, stop thinking about it, unless your position requires you to apply some remedy." Pope Leo XIII
@@jonathanbohl Dude, are _you_ being charitable be implicitly accusing me of being uncharitable? Is it "uncharitable" to say that the ACTIONS of Lofton on at least one occasion on at least one topic have been "frustrating and dismissive"? Is it "uncharitable" to state the fact of how he has treated Ybarra and others who used to be regulars on the channel? Apparently, you are not even disputing that fact.
If you don't want to say more of what you supposedly know, fine, but don't go making implicit accusations against others who have experienced for themselves the dismissiveness of Lofton and heard the testimony of others to the same effect. Better to take your own advice and say nothing.
If I were to take Pope Leo's advice and find a reason to excuse Lofton, I'd say his scrupulosity of conscience, his memories of his days as a RadTrad attacking the pope, are driving him to sometimes overcompensate/overreact in defense of Pope Francis and in opposition to solid Catholics with legit concerns. He sees his defensiveness as making restitution for his past apparently. I didn't have much of a problem at all with Lofton (and respected him highly) until FS doc came out and he refused to give any blame to or find any fault at all in the doc.
TLDNR