If I actually knew the real history of the past 500 years, I'd be much better educated. All we have is broad brushstrokes and false narratives pushed on us by the Committee for Secular Propagandist History.
It's so crazy, when it's mentioned that Luther exaggerated about some things in his life, it reminded me of all those protestant pastors who lied and also exaggerated about their lives, that they where dying and got healed. When in actual fact that wasn't the case. They like to tell these stories to try win people over.
We are finding contemporary examples of the same skewed histories with events like 9/11, the Iraq War, Covid and Israel’s influence over American politics and affairs.
You are absolutely correct, unfortunately anti catholic beliefs have been going on since the reformation. Unfortunately people find Jack chick publications to be historic. You also have the books “ the two babylons and the Trail of Blood”. It’s amazing how so many quote them as historic events, then when you confront them. They call it a conspiracy, and the Catholic Church has cleaned all evidence. 🤦♂️
@@JuanGonzalez-kb3gm Ezekiel 13:19 "You have profaned me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, putting to death persons who should not die and keeping alive persons who should not live, by your lies to my people, who listen to lies." Someone has a lot to answer for.
For some reason (myth of progress), we tend to assume people of the past were dumb, or at least not as smart as we are. In terms of modern scientific knoweldge and discoveries, that may be so. But their depth and nuance of thought was great, and probably greater than ours in the modern day.
Ever since the satanic cult of sola scriptura a man made tradition invented by a devil possessed man was introduced five hundred years ago many idiots were interpreting the Bible on their own wild imagination and even adding their wishful thinking or twisting historical facts in order to justify their satanic theology and to undermine the Church that Jesus established under the stewardship of Peter but nowadays no more idiots left to listen to their false preaching anymore
When I first read the debate between Erasmus and Luther on the freedom of the Will, I couldn’t believe how crass and unchristian Luther came across. I thought, we followed this guy? How much of his rebellion was further driven by Germany wanting freedom from Rome? Is it possible that their backing further encouraged Luther to be bold in his…ways?
@@BensWorkshop And they wanted to use Church infrastructure for their own use. Remember, in these days state bureaucracy was very limited and state presence at the village level (and by far most people lived in villages) was almost zero. But every village did have a church. So, if the ruler can have the priest in the church proclaim his message, that would be a big win. One of the major concessions Luther made to the Duke of Saxony (his sponsor) was that in Lutheranism the ruler of the country would be the head of the church in his dominion. Not being Catholic would also make the Duke more independent of the Emperor. That too would be a big deal for de Duke.
of course - the so-called reformation cannot be understood without considering the project of the German nobility to rob the properties of the monesteries...
Thank you for this! Speaking as a Russian, though, it should be said that, although obviously more accessible for Slavs than either Greek or Latin, perhaps excepting some South Slavs early on (and even then only partially) Church Slavonic emphatically was not a vernacular language of any people.
Jesus warned Peter that Satan wanted to "sift" him. Looks like Satan sifted the church by creating the "Reformation" and then sifting that portion to a point no one would recognize it today.
I'm about eight minutes in and had a thought. For those who have seen the show Breaking Bad, it just occurred to me that Martin Luther and Walter White had a similar story arc. Both started out on noble missions but allowed their pride to turn them into absolute monsters. The irony is in the beginning the means that White implemented made him much worse than Luther. White was creating and distributing illegal drugs unfortunately. Luther wrote his bishop his 99 theses, which on its own is legitimate. In the end Luther became the greater monster that wanted to kill innocent civilians, while White was at least somewhat repentant for his actions but was too far gone and he knew it. We need a Catholic Dallas Jenkins to make a show about Luther's life but do it like Breaking Bad. Talk about a culture shock!
Americans are amazing and have amazing imaginations. Luther was motivated by jealously because a different order, the dominicains, where granted the issuing of indulgences for the construction Saint Peter's basilica and as such, he would never have gotten the chance to shine and quickly become a bishop. In a word, jealousy.
This was a fascinating and enlightening episode. I really learned a lot. I would also value a similar type episode and explanation of the split with the Orthodox Church.
Such a well informative enlightening helpful video I’m impressed with both of you my catholic brothers do keep up your excellent work for it seems that God will truly guide protect and increase your understanding of truth grace and virtues that both you catholic men have YEAH ALLELUIA AMEN DEO GRATIS 🙏🐑🕊️✨🔥
Protestantism is not a church. Its dozens and dozens of factions with conflicting and contradictiry beliefs. Its “spiritual anarchy.” As such it cannot be the Church spoken of in the Nicene Creed.
As a Protestant who has attended Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal and non denomination services I enjoy the differences. There are only two churches, the visible that is seen by man and the invisible. The invisible is the "one true church" because only God knows who is really a spirit filled Christian.
This discussion definitely covered some myths about the Reformation. Interesting from an historical perspective. Luther defenders would do well to focus on that topic.
Honestly I looked into Anglicanism just to know what they were better. I was actually shocked at how much of a mess that whole system is. Even the continuing church which split off from the church of England is a mess. They’ve had so many splits that is probably 80 or 100 sub denominations. It’s like the entire protestant reformation rolled up into one denomination.
@@alternativefactory7190the Roman view of Anglican orders is fundamentally false because it is premised on a myth about the consecration of Archbishop Parker. You believe the Eastern churches have the Eucharist, the Pope does not have the authority to take the Holy Spirit out of Anglican orders.
@ViscountWoodspring he didn't take it out of their holy orders. The reason he deemed them invalid is because they've now had 500 years of not having a true understanding of the eucharist. They don't believe in transubstansiation and they've also dropped most of the sacraments.
tell me why you think it was not a good idea? You honestly would side with Rome knowing how corrupt the Pope was during that time? Luther simply proposed a Reformation because of how corrupt Rome and how umbilical its practices have become and the Pope's response was excommunication. What a joke of a Pope. 😂
Awesome video. I thought it wouldn't have any good new knowledge but i was surprised by the insights Joe provided. And what a close about "necessary" evil! I was hoping next you could elaborate on something you said during the genocide and slavery 4 way debate. You said that Gavin was taking a protestant approach to the discussion and said Catholics have other ways of addressing the difficult passages. What are those? I've read everything I could find on it from Catholic Answers and none of it sounded catholic only.
Geez you better make an addendum short clip stating that Catholics are forbidden from superstition. They’ll take that joke about your cat appearing as “gospel” for what Catholics believe about superstition. 🤦♀️ Great episode, by the way!
But the Popes have been great moral men? I get what he’s saying but that argument cuts very much both ways and Luther was never believed to be or taught to be an infallible ruler of any sort.
yeah, but Luther is venerated by the protestant crowds as a great reformer of the Church of God, with the right to divide the church, to promote anti-catholic biogotry to mindboggling levels, and to contest major Christian dogmas, isn't it?? --- it comes to mind his interpretation of "this is my biody" - because there is no explicit use of the verb "being" in hebrew, that would mean that the body of Christ is present aside the bread... and this mockery is still nowadays the truth about the Eucharist in the Lutheran churches - yeah, a true prophet of hell...
@@silveriorebelo2920that’s not the Lutheran view exactly you. They believe in the real presence but don’t really attempt to explain it dogmatically. The point if the post still holds. A simple look into the history of the Popes will give you some pretty disposable characters who little resembled ordinary Christian’s in any way. Sure, there are absolutely Protestants that you can say the same. Doctrinally, though, these are simply men. There is a major difference in how they’re viewed and all that comes along with that.
Don’t some of the 95 theses reject the notion that indulgences can be applied for temporal punishments that weren’t given by the Pope/Priests (penances). I do understand that the 95 theses have one anathema for those that would REJECT indulgences.
as a Catholic i think the diss - fest on Martin Luther is unwarranted. Its open season on Luther on all RC channels. Martin Luther changed the course of Western Civilization. In Protestant countries like Germany the Bible was translated in to the local language and they had laws passsed that daily Bible reading was the law of the land - this has the collateral effect of spreading literacy. Catholic nations have always had massive poverty right up til WWII while Protestant countries with their emphasis on individualism and work ethics were centuries ahead. Ive studied Western Civilization long enough to know that Protestants had more social mobility and less constraints. Catholic countries: historically speaking ...the only way a poor boy could advance upwards was through joining the Church via Holy Orders and by joining the military. In Protestant countries education was often free, and the concept of mandatory public schooling was born. Im Catholic but we dont need to trash Luther to look good. Lets let our light shine 🌟 on its own
so much ignorance and bias it hurts the intelligence - the most rich countries (revenue per capita) in the second half of the 19th century and first half of the 20th century were not protestant but catholic - France, Belgium, Argentina, Chekoslavakia - while severe misery was typical in protestant Britain, most especially in Ireland - you have been reading protestant propaganda or you are a fake catholic, using this space for spewing the usual protestant lies
@@silveriorebelo2920 I assure you I'm no fake RC... 🥱 and while I don't doubt there was immense wealth in the countries you mentioned: I was referring to the situation of the AVERAGE - sometimes called "MEDIAN" of the population. it's undisputed that ALL citizens of majority Protestant nations - irregardless of whether they followed the Protestant or Catholic stream of Christianity - were far better educated, and the overall - ie AVERAGE literacy rate was immensely higher. there is a definite direct nexus between the emphasis on daily Bible reading and the spread of literacy. your argument is based on a false premise - that countries that had wealth had fair distribution of wealth and societal equality. and I'm trying to explain that this is simply unsupported by historical facts.. it doesn't how much wealth there is IF the wealth was concentrated in the top 1 or 2 percent of the population actually: the worst off was the population of those in Slavic and Balkan countries where the Orthodox Church supported unscrupulous monarchs at the expense of the people. Look at Russia before their Revolution. I'm not defending the Marxist ideology by any means but the movement caught on and and had appeal to the masses because the poverty in Tsarist Russia was unnecessarily heinous. Also, France was Catholic in theory but Humanistic in practice and outlook because of their own Revolution in the early 1800's where they overthrew THEIR monarchy, an act not supported by the RC Church as to your other examples: using Ireland to prove your point is nonsensical. First off: Ireland is overwhelmingly RC and the entire island was a British colony, when it should not have been. The English citizens were far better off than the colonized Irish whom they ruthlessly exploited. you missed the point of my commentary speaking of the poverty gap between rich and poor and stating an historical fact: that majority Protestant countries had higher literacy rates, which led to better opportunities. The societal structure was more fluid - ie someone born into poverty could still thrive because of the free, compulsory education and emphasis on individualism. Of course we are speaking of mostly MEN as women rarely had the same opportunities for education, even in Protestant countries..... European Protestant countries were also the first to move to abolish slavery, while it persisted in Brazil well into the 1880's. The Protestant Reformation also had the causal effect of breaking the cruel custom of serfdom, where much of the population did not have full citizenship privileges. Instead they were bound to the land, in a brutally oppressive system where they were technically not slaves, but they also were not free. They were unable to leave the land and settle elsewhere. This is called feudalism. ~ to be fair: the abolition of serfdom could have been the result of Germanic/ Nordic/ Anglo-Saxon culture vs the culture of the Latin - influenced countries. The former rejected feudalism while the latter perpetuated it long after they shouldn't have to prove my point about the economic disparity in majority Protestant vs majority RC countries just look at the condition of the population in modern nations colonized by Spain and Portugal vs those colonized by Britain. do you not see the miserable abject poverty of South America vs the countries in the Western Hemisphere that have a Protestant heritage ? it has everything to do with the individualistic-centered outlook that defines countries with a Protestant heritage. Throughout the 18th and 19th and 20th centuries, and continuing even through the present: in the US, Canada, Australia, etc the poorest people still were better off than their counterparts in Catholic South and Central America. That's the case even right now . I'm not saying the < CATHOLIC CHURCH> caused or perpetuated poverty but rather that she did not do enough to alleviate it and passively allowed amoral rulers to oppress their subjects. If you can keep someone uneducated, they'll be less likely to lift themselves out of abject misery I'm not blaming Catholic teaching by any means - I just feel like the RC Church hindered social mobility ...not in a deliberate way but by keeping in place rigid social structures that stifled opportunities for growth and advancement. now juxtaposed against that, we see that Protestant countries with their emphasis on education, had a citizenry that was economically better off finally: your opinion that I'm fake RC is asinine given that I am a devoted Choir singer at my RC parish 💒 and training to be a Cantor. I also can sing in Latin... tell me... can YOU 🫠 I don't need random folx online to define me when I've more than proven myself IRL. my commentary was describing the societal norms of historically RC vs historically Protestant countries and the impact it continues to have today. Pax Christi ✝️
So, you're equating Catholicism with poverty? I'd that that deal, even if it were true. Btw, Germany isn't a protestant country as you claim and wasn't even a country up until 150 years ago and Bavaria is very culturally Catholic today. You know, the south of Germany... Where they make very good beer and BMWs?
I don’t know all of his reasons but one of them is that he viewed Paul as a sola fide Protestant and Paul’s Jewish opponents as Roman Catholics, and so he hated Jews the more he hated Catholics.
how do you respond to the protestant argument He didn't say "curse those who oppose indulgences," but rather "curse those who are against the truth concerning indulgences." The "truth about indulgences" was that you cannot buy your own salvation, and Luther was trying to state that. This can be seen in Ephesians 2 : 8,9.
“You can’t buy your salvation” Did you not listen to the beginning of the video where they addressed that, and how the church didn’t then and doesn’t now teach it?
Many Christians don’t realize how much more Judas they are than Peter. I’m not excluding myself in that. We choose sin and the things of this world over Christ and betray his love more than we realize. Judas’ sin is only worse in degree, not in kind. May God have mercy on us, forgive us our sin, and bring us to everlasting life. Mother Mary, pray for us.
Let's answer this question. Where the reformers running from the Vatican, or was the other way around? Some of the prominent protestants were tried in a court? Not long ago during Mussolini time in Italy many protestants were in jail for not agreeing with the Church of state (the Catholic Church)
Soooooo.. thankful to God and the Protestant reformers. Because of the Reformation I was fortunate enough to have grown up in the greatest country on Earth. God bless the U.S.A. ❤❤❤❤❤
Luther also condemned sexual immorality among the clergy and clerical abuses like nepotism, simony, usury, and pluralism. I guess Roman Catholics dont have a problem with these sins.
Spare me the virtue signaling about anti semitism. Do we really have to bring this up every time we talk about who is good or bad depending on how they felt about the jews?
You doth protest too much🤨 As Christians we are called NOT to hate any group of people but pray for them and evangelize them. So yes, a person's view of the Jews, or Muslims or whatever... does reveal how much they conform themselves to our Lord. You can criticize and refute the philosophy of a group without hating them in an ethnic sort of way.
Interesting and educational although - and I will confess that I am a Protestant - I found some of the claims rather biased (it does work both ways) - eg. dismissing the work of Protestant historians as biased and I would argue a rather biased historical treatment of the indulgences issue - and at times misleading - eg. suggesting that Protestantism is fractured on theology which is blatantly false as it relates to core doctrines of Christology, Pneumatology and Soteriology.
To honour His sinless mother, Jesus assumed her bodily into heaven where she is Queen Mother (type of Esther) & Woman of Rev 12. If you don’t believe that where are her relics?
This is an ancient tradition and makes sense given Mary's place in Salvation history. Can you explain why you don't believe this besides an argument from silence
@@geoffjs What? What do relics have to do with it? Do you actually think it logically follows that if there are no relics that Mary must have been assumed? There are no relics because the exaltation of Mary as a concept didn't happen until later, 2nd or 3rd century.
My simple understanding of Christianity is that Jesus is Jewish messiah and he started new covenant Judaism not a new religion whatsoever and his first followers were all Jews and they started this new covenant Judaism with the basic traditions like tabernacle alter menohra priesthood and eucharist as new Passover ritual intact. Nobody disputes about this new covenant Judaism until the satanic cult of sola scriptura a man made tradition invented by a devil possessed man was introduced just five hundred years ago
I think the Sola Scriptura heresy was just one of a long line of heresies. It's just that it took off more heavily in the West than previous heresies had done. There are other heresies that took hold in the East, but Islam wiped out one of those (Gnosticism), and greatly shrank Manicheanism, which is still practiced in some places.
@@kimfleury yeah sola scriptura is the blueprint for the chaotic anarchism designed by the devil and found pety criminals like Martin and Calvin to execute the plan
@@kimfleury precisely sola scriptura is neither biblical nor historical nor even practical right from the beginning it always ended up with sola Martin, sola Calvin, sola zwingli, sola Smith, sola Ellen sola Henry Viii etc on and on and on and on, and by now after five hundred years around sola fifty thousand idiot heretics are contradicting each other all the time rendering themselves into chaotic anarchism which is the end result of the satanic theology
![[4K] Watch SpaceX Catch A Starship Rocket From Space!!! #IFT5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIKI7y3DTXk/mqdefault.jpg)
When your historical lens has a depth of field of 500 years, you get a very skewed view of the past.
If I actually knew the real history of the past 500 years, I'd be much better educated. All we have is broad brushstrokes and false narratives pushed on us by the Committee for Secular Propagandist History.
People who protested against RC claims have been around much longer, but they were often burned at the stake
Splendid conversation. Thank you, Mr. Sonna.
I’ve been binging Shameless Popery the last few days.
Even our Lord slept! Granted, He already knew everything...
He is very good.
So have I.
same
It's so crazy, when it's mentioned that Luther exaggerated about some things in his life, it reminded me of all those protestant pastors who lied and also exaggerated about their lives, that they where dying and got healed. When in actual fact that wasn't the case. They like to tell these stories to try win people over.
very common here in the Philippines
My two favorite RUclipsr’s great video!
We are finding contemporary examples of the same skewed histories with events like 9/11, the Iraq War, Covid and Israel’s influence over American politics and affairs.
"The truth remains the truth, even if no one believes it. A lie remains a lie, even if everyone believes it." - Bishop Fulton J. sheen
You are absolutely correct, unfortunately anti catholic beliefs have been going on since the reformation. Unfortunately people find Jack chick publications to be historic. You also have the books “ the two babylons and the Trail of Blood”. It’s amazing how so many quote them as historic events, then when you confront them. They call it a conspiracy, and the Catholic Church has cleaned all evidence. 🤦♂️
@@JuanGonzalez-kb3gm Ezekiel 13:19
"You have profaned me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, putting to death persons who should not die and keeping alive persons who should not live, by your lies to my people, who listen to lies."
Someone has a lot to answer for.
@@HAL9000-su1mz absolutely 👍, more and more information comes out to prove the Catholic, form of worship.
I honestly can't tell which way you intend the skew to be going in each of thesee
Such a great conversation. Two of the best!
For some reason (myth of progress), we tend to assume people of the past were dumb, or at least not as smart as we are. In terms of modern scientific knoweldge and discoveries, that may be so. But their depth and nuance of thought was great, and probably greater than ours in the modern day.
I knew Luther drank a gallon of wine each day but after a deeper study I learned that he drank 2 gallons per day.
Deformation History is just as accurate as the Ancient Aliens building the Pyramids.
I think the three primary "reformer"s were beamed down from the starship Rebellion.
Ever since the satanic cult of sola scriptura a man made tradition invented by a devil possessed man was introduced five hundred years ago many idiots were interpreting the Bible on their own wild imagination and even adding their wishful thinking or twisting historical facts in order to justify their satanic theology and to undermine the Church that Jesus established under the stewardship of Peter but nowadays no more idiots left to listen to their false preaching anymore
The Defamation.
🤭
@@pomegranate6221 they even tried to deform the holy Bible itself in order to make their satanic theology fit into it
When I first read the debate between Erasmus and Luther on the freedom of the Will, I couldn’t believe how crass and unchristian Luther came across. I thought, we followed this guy? How much of his rebellion was further driven by Germany wanting freedom from Rome? Is it possible that their backing further encouraged Luther to be bold in his…ways?
The rulers wanted the Church land.
@@BensWorkshop
And they wanted to use Church infrastructure for their own use. Remember, in these days state bureaucracy was very limited and state presence at the village level (and by far most people lived in villages) was almost zero. But every village did have a church. So, if the ruler can have the priest in the church proclaim his message, that would be a big win. One of the major concessions Luther made to the Duke of Saxony (his sponsor) was that in Lutheranism the ruler of the country would be the head of the church in his dominion.
Not being Catholic would also make the Duke more independent of the Emperor. That too would be a big deal for de Duke.
@@theo-dr2dz Yes, of course, makes sense. The Church and the family fence tyrants in which is why tyrants hate both.
of course - the so-called reformation cannot be understood without considering the project of the German nobility to rob the properties of the monesteries...
Thank you for this!
Speaking as a Russian, though, it should be said that, although obviously more accessible for Slavs than either Greek or Latin, perhaps excepting some South Slavs early on (and even then only partially) Church Slavonic emphatically was not a vernacular language of any people.
interesting
Satan could not destroy the church.So he used luther to separate christianity. That is exactly what happened.
Jesus warned Peter that Satan wanted to "sift" him. Looks like Satan sifted the church by creating the "Reformation" and then sifting that portion to a point no one would recognize it today.
I'm about eight minutes in and had a thought. For those who have seen the show Breaking Bad, it just occurred to me that Martin Luther and Walter White had a similar story arc. Both started out on noble missions but allowed their pride to turn them into absolute monsters. The irony is in the beginning the means that White implemented made him much worse than Luther. White was creating and distributing illegal drugs unfortunately. Luther wrote his bishop his 99 theses, which on its own is legitimate. In the end Luther became the greater monster that wanted to kill innocent civilians, while White was at least somewhat repentant for his actions but was too far gone and he knew it. We need a Catholic Dallas Jenkins to make a show about Luther's life but do it like Breaking Bad. Talk about a culture shock!
Maybe the Roman Catholic church should excommunicat all of its homosexual clergy before Catholics like you rag on Luther. It's a bit hypocritical.
Interesting thought. 😊
it was 95 theses not 99
Americans are amazing and have amazing imaginations.
Luther was motivated by jealously because a different order, the dominicains, where granted the issuing of indulgences for the construction Saint Peter's basilica and as such, he would never have gotten the chance to shine and quickly become a bishop.
In a word, jealousy.
Really appreciate this video.
This was a fascinating and enlightening episode. I really learned a lot. I would also value a similar type episode and explanation of the split with the Orthodox Church.
"But evil is never necessary." Based. Based and Christpilled
Thanks Joe and Suan
Such a well informative enlightening helpful video I’m impressed with both of you my catholic brothers do keep up your excellent work for it seems that God will truly guide protect and increase your understanding of truth grace and virtues that both you catholic men have YEAH ALLELUIA AMEN DEO GRATIS 🙏🐑🕊️✨🔥
Protestantism is not a church. Its dozens and dozens of factions with conflicting and contradictiry beliefs. Its “spiritual anarchy.”
As such it cannot be the Church spoken of in the Nicene Creed.
As a Protestant who has attended Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal and non denomination services I enjoy the differences. There are only two churches, the visible that is seen by man and the invisible. The invisible is the "one true church" because only God knows who is really a spirit filled Christian.
@@amo6396 got a citation for there being separate visible and invisible true Churches?
@@amo6396where in the Bible does it say that LOL
@@Jesus_loves_you2004 Christians (in general) believe all kinds of things that aren't in the Bible. That's not really a problem of itself.
This discussion definitely covered some myths about the Reformation. Interesting from an historical perspective. Luther defenders would do well to focus on that topic.
38:15 Suan putting the Cat in Catholic
This looks just like my cat, who does the same thing.
Excellent episode! Thanks, Joe!
Thank you for this.
We should take a lesson from Anglicans, NOT😂
Honestly I looked into Anglicanism just to know what they were better. I was actually shocked at how much of a mess that whole system is. Even the continuing church which split off from the church of England is a mess. They’ve had so many splits that is probably 80 or 100 sub denominations. It’s like the entire protestant reformation rolled up into one denomination.
High church anglicanism is beautiful, but it still doesn't have the eucharist, so it is false. I do like the ordinariate.
@@alternativefactory7190the Roman view of Anglican orders is fundamentally false because it is premised on a myth about the consecration of Archbishop Parker. You believe the Eastern churches have the Eucharist, the Pope does not have the authority to take the Holy Spirit out of Anglican orders.
@ViscountWoodspring he didn't take it out of their holy orders. The reason he deemed them invalid is because they've now had 500 years of not having a true understanding of the eucharist. They don't believe in transubstansiation and they've also dropped most of the sacraments.
@@ViscountWoodspring No, but the Holy Spirit has.
Excellent video.
Who has. A good book on William Tindale since so many want to claim he was killed for simply translating the Bible.
He was killed for mistranslating the bible.. Heresy at the time which makes him a heretic.
Myth #1….. that it was a good idea 😂😮
How about, “That it was a ‘Reformation’ and not a ‘Rebellion?,’”
tell me why you think it was not a good idea? You honestly would side with Rome knowing how corrupt the Pope was during that time? Luther simply proposed a Reformation because of how corrupt Rome and how umbilical its practices have become and the Pope's response was excommunication. What a joke of a Pope. 😂
Yes I have also heard revolution.
Awesome video. I thought it wouldn't have any good new knowledge but i was surprised by the insights Joe provided. And what a close about "necessary" evil!
I was hoping next you could elaborate on something you said during the genocide and slavery 4 way debate. You said that Gavin was taking a protestant approach to the discussion and said Catholics have other ways of addressing the difficult passages. What are those? I've read everything I could find on it from Catholic Answers and none of it sounded catholic only.
Geez you better make an addendum short clip stating that Catholics are forbidden from superstition. They’ll take that joke about your cat appearing as “gospel” for what Catholics believe about superstition. 🤦♀️
Great episode, by the way!
Studying history leads honest Christians to Catholicism.
Suan and Joe. The best.
But the Popes have been great moral men? I get what he’s saying but that argument cuts very much both ways and Luther was never believed to be or taught to be an infallible ruler of any sort.
yeah, but Luther is venerated by the protestant crowds as a great reformer of the Church of God, with the right to divide the church, to promote anti-catholic biogotry to mindboggling levels, and to contest major Christian dogmas, isn't it?? --- it comes to mind his interpretation of "this is my biody" - because there is no explicit use of the verb "being" in hebrew, that would mean that the body of Christ is present aside the bread... and this mockery is still nowadays the truth about the Eucharist in the Lutheran churches - yeah, a true prophet of hell...
@@silveriorebelo2920that’s not the Lutheran view exactly you. They believe in the real presence but don’t really attempt to explain it dogmatically. The point if the post still holds. A simple look into the history of the Popes will give you some pretty disposable characters who little resembled ordinary Christian’s in any way. Sure, there are absolutely Protestants that you can say the same. Doctrinally, though, these are simply men. There is a major difference in how they’re viewed and all that comes along with that.
Don’t some of the 95 theses reject the notion that indulgences can be applied for temporal punishments that weren’t given by the Pope/Priests (penances).
I do understand that the 95 theses have one anathema for those that would REJECT indulgences.
I have to ask your guest to please slow down. I really struggled to hear what you’re saying, but I missed a lot.
Does anyone have a link to the summary instructions on the preaching of indulgences issued by the Archbishop of Mainz in 1515?
Shameless Popery (Joe) did it in his podcast on the myths of the reformation.
Augsburg Confession, Book of Concord, Chemnitz examination of the Counsel of Trent
Suan letting Sebastian on stream bruh 38:15
as a Catholic i think the diss - fest on Martin Luther is unwarranted. Its open season on Luther on all RC channels.
Martin Luther changed the course of Western Civilization. In Protestant countries like Germany the Bible was translated in to the local language and they had laws passsed that daily Bible reading was the law of the land - this has the collateral effect of spreading literacy.
Catholic nations have always had massive poverty right up til WWII while Protestant countries with their emphasis on individualism and work ethics were centuries ahead.
Ive studied Western Civilization long enough to know that Protestants had more social mobility and less constraints. Catholic countries: historically speaking ...the only way a poor boy could advance upwards was through joining the Church via Holy Orders and by joining the military.
In Protestant countries education was often free, and the concept of mandatory public schooling was born.
Im Catholic but we dont need to trash Luther to look good.
Lets let our light shine 🌟 on its own
so much ignorance and bias it hurts the intelligence - the most rich countries (revenue per capita) in the second half of the 19th century and first half of the 20th century were not protestant but catholic - France, Belgium, Argentina, Chekoslavakia - while severe misery was typical in protestant Britain, most especially in Ireland - you have been reading protestant propaganda or you are a fake catholic, using this space for spewing the usual protestant lies
@@silveriorebelo2920 I assure you I'm no fake RC... 🥱
and while I don't doubt there was immense wealth in the countries you mentioned: I was referring to the situation of the AVERAGE - sometimes called "MEDIAN" of the population.
it's undisputed that ALL citizens of majority Protestant nations - irregardless of whether they followed the Protestant or Catholic stream of Christianity - were far better educated, and the overall - ie AVERAGE literacy rate was immensely higher. there is a definite direct nexus between the emphasis on daily Bible reading and the spread of literacy.
your argument is based on a false premise - that countries that had wealth had fair distribution of wealth and societal equality.
and I'm trying to explain that this is simply unsupported by historical facts..
it doesn't how much wealth there is IF the wealth was concentrated in the top 1 or 2 percent of the population
actually: the worst off was the population of those in Slavic and Balkan countries where the Orthodox Church supported unscrupulous monarchs at the expense of the people.
Look at Russia before their Revolution. I'm not defending the Marxist ideology by any means but the movement caught on and and had appeal to the masses because the poverty in Tsarist Russia was unnecessarily heinous.
Also, France was Catholic in theory but Humanistic in practice and outlook because of their own Revolution in the early 1800's where they overthrew THEIR monarchy, an act not supported by the RC Church
as to your other examples: using Ireland to prove your point is nonsensical. First off: Ireland is overwhelmingly RC and the entire island was a British colony, when it should not have been. The English citizens were far better off than the colonized Irish whom they ruthlessly exploited.
you missed the point of my commentary speaking of the poverty gap between rich and poor and stating an historical fact: that majority Protestant countries had higher literacy rates, which led to better opportunities. The societal structure was more fluid - ie someone born into poverty could still thrive because of the free, compulsory education and emphasis on individualism.
Of course we are speaking of mostly MEN as women rarely had the same opportunities for education, even in Protestant countries.....
European Protestant countries were also the first to move to abolish slavery, while it persisted in Brazil well into the 1880's.
The Protestant Reformation also had the causal effect of breaking the cruel custom of serfdom, where much of the population did not have full citizenship privileges.
Instead they were bound to the land, in a brutally oppressive system where they were technically not slaves, but they also were not free. They were unable to leave the land and settle elsewhere. This is called feudalism.
~ to be fair: the abolition of serfdom could have been the result of Germanic/ Nordic/ Anglo-Saxon culture vs the culture of the Latin - influenced countries. The former rejected feudalism while the latter perpetuated it long after they shouldn't have
to prove my point about the economic disparity in majority Protestant vs majority RC countries just look at the condition of the population in modern nations colonized by Spain and Portugal vs those colonized by Britain.
do you not see the miserable abject poverty of South America vs the countries in the Western Hemisphere that have a Protestant heritage ?
it has everything to do with the individualistic-centered outlook that defines countries with a Protestant heritage.
Throughout the 18th and 19th and 20th centuries, and continuing even through the present: in the US, Canada, Australia, etc the poorest people still were better off than their counterparts in Catholic South and Central America. That's the case even right now .
I'm not saying the < CATHOLIC CHURCH> caused or perpetuated poverty but rather that she did not do enough to alleviate it and passively allowed amoral rulers to oppress their subjects. If you can keep someone uneducated, they'll be less likely to lift themselves out of abject misery
I'm not blaming Catholic teaching by any means - I just feel like the RC Church hindered social mobility ...not in a deliberate way but by keeping in place rigid social structures that stifled opportunities for growth and advancement.
now juxtaposed against that, we see that Protestant countries with their emphasis on education, had a citizenry that was economically better off
finally: your opinion that I'm fake RC is asinine given that I am a devoted Choir singer at my RC parish 💒 and training to be a Cantor.
I also can sing in Latin... tell me... can YOU 🫠
I don't need random folx online to define me when I've more than proven myself IRL.
my commentary was describing the societal norms of historically RC vs historically Protestant countries and the impact it continues to have today.
Pax Christi ✝️
So, you're equating Catholicism with poverty?
I'd that that deal, even if it were true.
Btw, Germany isn't a protestant country as you claim and wasn't even a country up until 150 years ago and Bavaria is very culturally Catholic today. You know, the south of Germany... Where they make very good beer and BMWs?
It’s dishonest to try to make the case that this is the way indulgences worked under men like Tetzel.
5:57 Why did Luther hate Jews in particular ? Sounds bizarre
I don’t know all of his reasons but one of them is that he viewed Paul as a sola fide Protestant and Paul’s Jewish opponents as Roman Catholics, and so he hated Jews the more he hated Catholics.
how do you respond to the protestant argument
He didn't say "curse those who oppose indulgences," but rather "curse those who are against the truth concerning indulgences."
The "truth about indulgences" was that you cannot buy your own salvation, and Luther was trying to state that. This can be seen in Ephesians 2 : 8,9.
You agree with the argument, because the Catholic position was sinful.
@@swilliams7850What was the Catholic position?
The accusers bear the burden of proof. A closed mind disregards even Christ in the flesh!
Catholic teaching. It sounds like your faith tradition has very thin theology.
“You can’t buy your salvation”
Did you not listen to the beginning of the video where they addressed that, and how the church didn’t then and doesn’t now teach it?
Many Christians don’t realize how much more Judas they are than Peter. I’m not excluding myself in that. We choose sin and the things of this world over Christ and betray his love more than we realize. Judas’ sin is only worse in degree, not in kind. May God have mercy on us, forgive us our sin, and bring us to everlasting life. Mother Mary, pray for us.
Let's answer this question. Where the reformers running from the Vatican, or was the other way around?
Some of the prominent protestants were tried in a court?
Not long ago during Mussolini time in Italy many protestants were in jail for not agreeing with the Church of state (the Catholic Church)
👍
😍 CAT!
Soooooo.. thankful to God and the Protestant reformers. Because of the Reformation I was fortunate enough to have grown up in the greatest country on Earth. God bless the U.S.A. ❤❤❤❤❤
Those protesters who brought slavery to America?
History shows protestants actually started in 1100s
Luther also condemned sexual immorality among the clergy and clerical abuses like nepotism, simony, usury, and pluralism. I guess Roman Catholics dont have a problem with these sins.
Read what Luther complained about in his last letters to his wife.
Spare me the virtue signaling about anti semitism. Do we really have to bring this up every time we talk about who is good or bad depending on how they felt about the jews?
You doth protest too much🤨 As Christians we are called NOT to hate any group of people but pray for them and evangelize them. So yes, a person's view of the Jews, or Muslims or whatever... does reveal how much they conform themselves to our Lord. You can criticize and refute the philosophy of a group without hating them in an ethnic sort of way.
Interesting and educational although - and I will confess that I am a Protestant - I found some of the claims rather biased (it does work both ways) - eg. dismissing the work of Protestant historians as biased and I would argue a rather biased historical treatment of the indulgences issue - and at times misleading - eg. suggesting that Protestantism is fractured on theology which is blatantly false as it relates to core doctrines of Christology, Pneumatology and Soteriology.
Joe is getting more cucked the longer he is with Catholic Answers. Sad to see, his blog had an early and outsized impact on my conversion!
what are you even talking about?
I have to say this video is disappointing it is literally the same as the last one. I was hoping for new content.
It's a different channel.
There are lots of myths people believe about Luther.
Also: Mary bodily ascended into heaven.
Before her death even.....just sayin.
Give us a couple myths about Luther.
Peace.
To honour His sinless mother, Jesus assumed her bodily into heaven where she is Queen Mother (type of Esther) & Woman of Rev 12. If you don’t believe that where are her relics?
This is an ancient tradition and makes sense given Mary's place in Salvation history. Can you explain why you don't believe this besides an argument from silence
@@geoffjs What? What do relics have to do with it? Do you actually think it logically follows that if there are no relics that Mary must have been assumed?
There are no relics because the exaltation of Mary as a concept didn't happen until later, 2nd or 3rd century.
My simple understanding of Christianity is that Jesus is Jewish messiah and he started new covenant Judaism not a new religion whatsoever and his first followers were all Jews and they started this new covenant Judaism with the basic traditions like tabernacle alter menohra priesthood and eucharist as new Passover ritual intact. Nobody disputes about this new covenant Judaism until the satanic cult of sola scriptura a man made tradition invented by a devil possessed man was introduced just five hundred years ago
I think the Sola Scriptura heresy was just one of a long line of heresies. It's just that it took off more heavily in the West than previous heresies had done. There are other heresies that took hold in the East, but Islam wiped out one of those (Gnosticism), and greatly shrank Manicheanism, which is still practiced in some places.
@@kimfleury yeah sola scriptura is the blueprint for the chaotic anarchism designed by the devil and found pety criminals like Martin and Calvin to execute the plan
Given that Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and not to abolish it, couldn't one say the Christian rejection of Jewish law is itself a heresy?
@@kimfleury precisely sola scriptura is neither biblical nor historical nor even practical right from the beginning it always ended up with sola Martin, sola Calvin, sola zwingli, sola Smith, sola Ellen sola Henry Viii etc on and on and on and on, and by now after five hundred years around sola fifty thousand idiot heretics are contradicting each other all the time rendering themselves into chaotic anarchism which is the end result of the satanic theology
@@aGORILLA-g7l
No. Jesus did not abolish the Law. He raised the bar. “You have heard it said ….But I say ….”
Excellent video.