🚙 Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/offery208 🦵Kickstart your EFI Tuning knowledge. Get 50% OFF your first online course: hpcdmy.co/offery208 TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 - Open Loop Boost Control Lesson Introduction (Hey mate!) 00:40 - Boost Control Challenges 6:10 - Open Vs Closed Loop 9:25 - What You NEED For Good Boost Control! 15:10 - What Affects Boost Control 17:15 - Basis Of A Great Setup 18:00 - Passive Open Loop Example 38:20 - Members Questions
33:55 people really underestimate the importance of boost-by-tps. It completely changes the driving experience and controllability of a high boost 2WD car.
@@RHBTurbochargers I'd prefer the simple tuning of boost by tps rather than intentionally restricting the intake system with an undersized throttle body. Even with a small throttle body you're still affected by the TPS WOT curve and will achieve higher boost with less throttle at low RPM.
Lot's of respect for a person or persons who have knowledge greater than mine when it comes to something I really care about. A great tuner is a gift from God 🙏 when you have a.... Race car! 💯 So much information on this channel 👍
All the videos you guys are making have been incredibly helpful! I've taken a few of your paid courses and I'm going to be getting a lot more of them. I feel much better about building things for high performance and being able to be a reputable tuner/builder and I think your courses are the best place for anyone to start who needs direction and to learn. Lotta stuff you don't think about that you guys touch on and I appreciate it!
Lots of solid info in this one again! Definitely requires some nitpicking on the "open loop" definition though. If you vary the boost control duty cycle based on map pressure, that should really be called "closed loop". It's in reality a PID control with the "I" and "D" terms set to zero. Just created in a different way.
I think if you watch the video in its entirety I refer to this method as 'passive closed loop'. I'm not aiming for necessarily a text book definition but rather something that is easy enough to understand and easily distinguishable from a true or 'traditional' closed loop utilising an ECU's actual 'closed loop' strategy which we are purposely not doing here. So in short I believe most people will be able to distinguish the differences - Andre
@@hpa101 Always watch all of your videos! The name of a control strategy ultimately doesn't matter for it's function of course. But still think that a "P" boost control strategy should be called closed loop, even if it's being set up in a non-standard way.
The company who made my turbo kit welded the Turbosmart 45mm hypergate vband flange right on top of the g30-770 .82 a/r turbine housing which is 90 degrees to the housing and is not optimal to get the exhaust gas out 🤦🏻. My tuner pointed this out to me when he looked in my engine bay. I acquired the Turbosmart 45mm electronic waste gate which I will have the proper 90 schudule 10 elbow welded onto the turbine housing to efficiently get the exhaust gases out. Motec M142 with the half bridge will control the Turbosmart electronic waste gate. This will remove the Mac 4 port solenoid Im using at the moment.
I want to say that the primary sensor used for boost control is the MAP sensor measuring the pressure in the inlet manifold. But I’m not convinced that that is actually the best for managing the turbo. Although if you consider the purpose of boost control to be about building pressure in the intake manifold to manage engine power, then really the map sensor is the best for the task
@@farmer3242 To each is own, but to regulate intake manifold pressure you must reference the intake manifold. You also get better wastegate control between shifts.
Not at this stage, what are you trying to learn how to do with your MAXX Ecu? Let me know as although we don't have any specific examples using their platform just yet, we do have a TON of content that will still apply regardless. All these different ECUs are trying to control the same things remember, none of them have reinvented the way a 4 stroke gasoline fed piston engine fundamentally operates - Taz.
@@hpa101 im still debating on what to buy. Maxxecu, ecu master black or ms3.. maybe haltech 2500. For a 2jz gte. I'm leaning towards the maxx .especially for what I'm getting for the cost. Seems quite a few guys werre having issues with ecu master
I wouldn't base your choice on what we do and don't cover personally. Yes some specific content using the same software will help you learn a little faster, but not having it won't stop you with the previous comment in mind. If you don't plan to tune the car yourself at all in the end then you do also need to consider what your local tuner will and won't tune for you too, and then also the wiring situation noting there might be a plug and play option for your car that one company offers which another does not. At the end of the day there are more good options out there these days than bad really, and they all have pros and cons/quirks in one way or another. With all that out of the way, we do hope to add a MAXX example in 2022, both for tuning and also if we can an example to the PDM/PMU course using one of their units - Taz.
hi, my barra xr6t has stock ecu, is tuned and is making 400rwkw and gets boost surge sometimes. Traction control off, sometimes it boosts to 16psi by 2500rpm nice and smoothly usually in tip tronic going through the gears, other times flooring it from a stand still in D mode so it auto shifts it will boost surge jumping from around 10psi to 16psi and back to 10-12psi, it's not nice. what could the problem be?
You mean the boost goes too high when you floor it? Wouldn't it be boost spike? Got that on '' old '' turbo cars, my Saab jump to 12 psi to drop to 9 just after, but I don't get surge in my case. This is due if I'm not wrong to the response time of the whole system, in my case ecu, solénoïd and wastegate I'm not sure to understand what happen in your situation ah ah
@@blumafuji2753 it's a electronic boost control issue my tuner is struggling to figure out. The factory ford boost control is very complex to sort out once you have changed wastegate, intake, exhaust etc.
Most ECU come with pre programmed base map logs but usually for a car in standard spec specifically to get a fresh install running only, With my rx7 this would not have worked as everything was changed but someone on the owners forums had a similar build that he could send over. Majority of the time though you will be looking at starting fresh or approaching a tuner who will have a good idea of what is required for your spec
If you're looking to write the tune yourself, then you should look at HP Academy EFI tuning courses. I've gone through them and while there is a lot of nuances that are different between ECU's and tuning software, it will give you the basics you need. Another great tool that you can use once you have the understanding from those courses is the Borg Warner Match Bot chart. It will help you with really dialing in their turbos, but can be incredibly helpful for not BW turbos as well. There is a lot to learn, so make sure you learn all that you can before you start to write any tunes. When you finally have your basemap written for your modifications, you'll start by making sure the fueling is correct first and your hitting all your fueling targets before you start adding any timing. Like I said though, go take the courses and really apply yourself and take notes or whatever you need to do in order to retain and understand the content.
@@joebidden4914 comment was from a long time ago so I can't remember the video contents exactly but does this mean the turbo shaft speed slows down as the RPMs increase? If you opened the wastegate more and more would this lower the decrease in shaft speed? The restriction idea is hard for me to understand because if it makes 22psi at any point, I would assume it's the maximum because of the shaft speed can't go any higher?
@@bilaltariq7819 its because of physical ability to flow, they just can't keep up with the airflow demands at higher RPMS and higher VE. Smaller turbos have quick response but their flow is restricted from housing size, turbine size, and also compressor size. There's a lot that goes into turbo sizing and different applications and also different fin desings for the compressor and the inducer and exducer sizing and shape. A lot more than I can explain in a comment here lol. Also just because the pressure is higher doesn't mean it will have more airflow. Turbos are usually rated in lbs/min of flow and a rough equation is 10whp for every 1lb/min of flow. This isn't applicable to everything, but it is a good general rule. You have to have the supporting mods and what not to be able to fully utilize the turbo if you go bigger as well and a proper tune of the VE tables and also adjust timing which is something that should be left to a knowledgeable tuner who knows what they are doing, not just someone going in and making changes when they really don't understand what they are doing. Sorry long post but its not so simple as just a compressor/turbine speed.
Buy the Tuning Courses. Worth the money. You'll learn everything you need to know to not only create your own base maps, but also every other table and ecu configuration adjustment your car requires.
This is a free lesson (which is a course module) on base map setup. It is the first step which makes a lot of people overthink it. A base map to get your engine running so that you can check things and start tuning, nothing more, nothing less - www.hpacademy.com/blog/first-startup-no-base-map-watch-this-first-afr-initial-startup-free-lesson/? - Taz. PS: As EJ mentioned this is all covered in our course material and we can help you via the members only forum as you go if you need it too.
High Performance Academy 37 seconds ago If you watch the video in its entirety I refer to this method as 'passive closed loop'. I'm not aiming for necessarily a text book definition but rather something that is easy enough to understand and easily distinguishable from a true or 'traditional' closed loop utilising an ECU's actual 'closed loop' strategy which we are purposely not doing here. So in short I believe most people will be able to distinguish the differences here and the intent of the lesson - Andre
![How To Tune A Turbo Engine | Turbocharged Engine Tuning 101 [GOLD WEBINAR LESSON]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Dca43nEWEys/mqdefault.jpg)
![How To Tune A Turbo Engine | Turbocharged Engine Tuning 101 [GOLD WEBINAR LESSON]](/img/tr.png)
🚙 Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/offery208
🦵Kickstart your EFI Tuning knowledge. Get 50% OFF your first online course: hpcdmy.co/offery208
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Open Loop Boost Control Lesson Introduction (Hey mate!)
00:40 - Boost Control Challenges
6:10 - Open Vs Closed Loop
9:25 - What You NEED For Good Boost Control!
15:10 - What Affects Boost Control
17:15 - Basis Of A Great Setup
18:00 - Passive Open Loop Example
38:20 - Members Questions
33:55 people really underestimate the importance of boost-by-tps. It completely changes the driving experience and controllability of a high boost 2WD car.
Running a reasonably sized throttle body does this mechanically
@@RHBTurbochargers I'd prefer the simple tuning of boost by tps rather than intentionally restricting the intake system with an undersized throttle body. Even with a small throttle body you're still affected by the TPS WOT curve and will achieve higher boost with less throttle at low RPM.
@@TheCarPassionChannel It's all down to personal preference
Lot's of respect for a person or persons who have knowledge greater than mine when it comes to something I really care about. A great tuner is a gift from God 🙏 when you have a.... Race car! 💯 So much information on this channel 👍
Can't wait to implement some of these concepts on my emu black
Enjoy man! You're certainly going to notice a big difference behind the wheel with your boost control dialled in 😎 - Taz.
All the videos you guys are making have been incredibly helpful! I've taken a few of your paid courses and I'm going to be getting a lot more of them. I feel much better about building things for high performance and being able to be a reputable tuner/builder and I think your courses are the best place for anyone to start who needs direction and to learn. Lotta stuff you don't think about that you guys touch on and I appreciate it!
Could you do an example of how PID control works in the ECU?
twin gates-twin solenoid has performance advantages too
Incredible
Lots of solid info in this one again!
Definitely requires some nitpicking on the "open loop" definition though. If you vary the boost control duty cycle based on map pressure, that should really be called "closed loop". It's in reality a PID control with the "I" and "D" terms set to zero. Just created in a different way.
I think if you watch the video in its entirety I refer to this method as 'passive closed loop'. I'm not aiming for necessarily a text book definition but rather something that is easy enough to understand and easily distinguishable from a true or 'traditional' closed loop utilising an ECU's actual 'closed loop' strategy which we are purposely not doing here. So in short I believe most people will be able to distinguish the differences - Andre
@@hpa101 Always watch all of your videos!
The name of a control strategy ultimately doesn't matter for it's function of course.
But still think that a "P" boost control strategy should be called closed loop, even if it's being set up in a non-standard way.
The company who made my turbo kit welded the Turbosmart 45mm hypergate vband flange right on top of the g30-770 .82 a/r turbine housing which is 90 degrees to the housing and is not optimal to get the exhaust gas out 🤦🏻. My tuner pointed this out to me when he looked in my engine bay. I acquired the Turbosmart 45mm electronic waste gate which I will have the proper 90 schudule 10 elbow welded onto the turbine housing to efficiently get the exhaust gases out. Motec M142 with the half bridge will control the Turbosmart electronic waste gate. This will remove the Mac 4 port solenoid Im using at the moment.
Honestly 90 degree angle is fine. Loads of the most popular manifolds have it like that and make tons of power with no wastegate issues.
Simple question, where is the best place to get a boost signal from for boost control. Inlet manifold, turbo outlet, pre or after intercooler? Cheers
I want to say that the primary sensor used for boost control is the MAP sensor measuring the pressure in the inlet manifold. But I’m not convinced that that is actually the best for managing the turbo.
Although if you consider the purpose of boost control to be about building pressure in the intake manifold to manage engine power, then really the map sensor is the best for the task
Intake manifold
@@RHBTurbochargers wrong dude, it should be after turbo pre cooler. stock is usually off comp cover.
@@farmer3242 To each is own, but to regulate intake manifold pressure you must reference the intake manifold. You also get better wastegate control between shifts.
@@RHBTurbochargers ok I didn't know that. Is it better that the wastegate diaphragm gets vacuum when throttle shuts?? I guess it would be??
No videos on maxx ecu?
Not at this stage, what are you trying to learn how to do with your MAXX Ecu? Let me know as although we don't have any specific examples using their platform just yet, we do have a TON of content that will still apply regardless. All these different ECUs are trying to control the same things remember, none of them have reinvented the way a 4 stroke gasoline fed piston engine fundamentally operates - Taz.
@@hpa101 im still debating on what to buy. Maxxecu, ecu master black or ms3.. maybe haltech 2500. For a 2jz gte. I'm leaning towards the maxx .especially for what I'm getting for the cost. Seems quite a few guys werre having issues with ecu master
I wouldn't base your choice on what we do and don't cover personally. Yes some specific content using the same software will help you learn a little faster, but not having it won't stop you with the previous comment in mind.
If you don't plan to tune the car yourself at all in the end then you do also need to consider what your local tuner will and won't tune for you too, and then also the wiring situation noting there might be a plug and play option for your car that one company offers which another does not.
At the end of the day there are more good options out there these days than bad really, and they all have pros and cons/quirks in one way or another.
With all that out of the way, we do hope to add a MAXX example in 2022, both for tuning and also if we can an example to the PDM/PMU course using one of their units - Taz.
1st one here✋🏽
hi, my barra xr6t has stock ecu, is tuned and is making 400rwkw and gets boost surge sometimes. Traction control off, sometimes it boosts to 16psi by 2500rpm nice and smoothly usually in tip tronic going through the gears, other times flooring it from a stand still in D mode so it auto shifts it will boost surge jumping from around 10psi to 16psi and back to 10-12psi, it's not nice. what could the problem be?
You mean the boost goes too high when you floor it?
Wouldn't it be boost spike?
Got that on '' old '' turbo cars, my Saab jump to 12 psi to drop to 9 just after, but I don't get surge in my case.
This is due if I'm not wrong to the response time of the whole system, in my case ecu, solénoïd and wastegate
I'm not sure to understand what happen in your situation ah ah
@@blumafuji2753 it's a electronic boost control issue my tuner is struggling to figure out. The factory ford boost control is very complex to sort out once you have changed wastegate, intake, exhaust etc.
This isnt strictly related to this webinar. Say I have a pretty heavily modified STI how would I go about creating a base map and tuning from there?
Most ECU come with pre programmed base map logs but usually for a car in standard spec specifically to get a fresh install running only,
With my rx7 this would not have worked as everything was changed but someone on the owners forums had a similar build that he could send over.
Majority of the time though you will be looking at starting fresh or approaching a tuner who will have a good idea of what is required for your spec
If you're looking to write the tune yourself, then you should look at HP Academy EFI tuning courses. I've gone through them and while there is a lot of nuances that are different between ECU's and tuning software, it will give you the basics you need. Another great tool that you can use once you have the understanding from those courses is the Borg Warner Match Bot chart. It will help you with really dialing in their turbos, but can be incredibly helpful for not BW turbos as well. There is a lot to learn, so make sure you learn all that you can before you start to write any tunes. When you finally have your basemap written for your modifications, you'll start by making sure the fueling is correct first and your hitting all your fueling targets before you start adding any timing. Like I said though, go take the courses and really apply yourself and take notes or whatever you need to do in order to retain and understand the content.
Why can't the turbo hold 22psi all the way?
He said it in the video, the turbine housing becomes too restrictive.
@@joebidden4914 comment was from a long time ago so I can't remember the video contents exactly but does this mean the turbo shaft speed slows down as the RPMs increase? If you opened the wastegate more and more would this lower the decrease in shaft speed? The restriction idea is hard for me to understand because if it makes 22psi at any point, I would assume it's the maximum because of the shaft speed can't go any higher?
@@bilaltariq7819 its because of physical ability to flow, they just can't keep up with the airflow demands at higher RPMS and higher VE. Smaller turbos have quick response but their flow is restricted from housing size, turbine size, and also compressor size. There's a lot that goes into turbo sizing and different applications and also different fin desings for the compressor and the inducer and exducer sizing and shape. A lot more than I can explain in a comment here lol. Also just because the pressure is higher doesn't mean it will have more airflow. Turbos are usually rated in lbs/min of flow and a rough equation is 10whp for every 1lb/min of flow. This isn't applicable to everything, but it is a good general rule. You have to have the supporting mods and what not to be able to fully utilize the turbo if you go bigger as well and a proper tune of the VE tables and also adjust timing which is something that should be left to a knowledgeable tuner who knows what they are doing, not just someone going in and making changes when they really don't understand what they are doing. Sorry long post but its not so simple as just a compressor/turbine speed.
There needs to be a session on creating a base map. There's not a base map for all ecus on standalone ecus.
Buy the Tuning Courses. Worth the money. You'll learn everything you need to know to not only create your own base maps, but also every other table and ecu configuration adjustment your car requires.
This is a free lesson (which is a course module) on base map setup. It is the first step which makes a lot of people overthink it. A base map to get your engine running so that you can check things and start tuning, nothing more, nothing less - www.hpacademy.com/blog/first-startup-no-base-map-watch-this-first-afr-initial-startup-free-lesson/? - Taz.
PS: As EJ mentioned this is all covered in our course material and we can help you via the members only forum as you go if you need it too.
That was not open loop but closed loop with P term vs rpm gains. Prove me wrong!
High Performance Academy
37 seconds ago
If you watch the video in its entirety I refer to this method as 'passive closed loop'. I'm not aiming for necessarily a text book definition but rather something that is easy enough to understand and easily distinguishable from a true or 'traditional' closed loop utilising an ECU's actual 'closed loop' strategy which we are purposely not doing here. So in short I believe most people will be able to distinguish the differences here and the intent of the lesson - Andre
Blessings to this good spell caster #Doctoruroko❤️❤️❤️