Just for the record, the wiring in that car was terrible! All the amps and DSP were daisy chained from one to the other! New fused distribution, no ferrules, no safe connections and terminations. I bet the ground was also just self tapped into a flimsy spot welded part of the car, just like the one i had to fix few days ago coming from the same shop! I could recognise the installer from another system's wiring!!! If they have such low attention and experience, then you can not expect more when it comes to actually making a system sound good too! Unfortunately it's the classic way of selling expensive equipment, shoving everything in the car as quick as possible, so the customer can see that everything was fitted from all the cardboard boxes he paid for and then handing over the card machine. :( Thankfully now he knows that there are good shops and individuals out there, so he won't be disappointed in the future ever again! Good luck John with your system and i hope you can come to the next meeting proudly with a great system!
For sure Peter. Look forward to seeing you again.’Nerijus has done some great work today refitting the speakers / wiring fuses etc. Just can’t wait For Lee at Platinum to change the dsp to helix, rebuild A.Pillars, and change speakers to micro precision . Don’t know what I would have done without your input and advice. Thank you So very much. Good luck in Salzburg .
Great work Nerijus! Impressed what you managed to do with such a limited tool. Would be intresting to hear the owner's impression of your tune in comparison to the previous. FIR processing is very capable but requires more data power than what a small box with limited processing power can provide and you need a computer to fully utilise it, yet.... when it is as limited as you experienced its no point in my opinion. Same with minidsp dsp solutions that is based on "taps" that I have used extensively in home hifi. Fine for correcting mids and tweets, but when you get into bass where its really needed, you run out of computing power in a whiff. That's why I hooked up a computer with unlimited processing power to my stereo at home I tuned a couple of cars with audison and IIR filters and it was not too bad to work with, but surely Helix is way more intuitive and flexible. I think the owner doing the right move ditching the dsp, but a revision of the a pillars would be a great future upgrade as well. I would personally prioritise that before the midbass. I'm not totally convinced that the underseats would be a gamechanger before the mids are optimal placed
The owner will definately change the pillars, however first priority is to have more functionality in tuning. Customer left with a smile on his face, that is the most important part🙂 The system will.only improve with the future upgrades.
Sounds so much better now. Anybody out there who doesn’t know about tuning,I strongly recommend you contact Nerijus. You will be amazed and delighted with what he can do. 10/10
@@RAW-CAt Hi Nerijus, I have for sale - Helix DSP Pro with Director and Hec for reasonable price (all in pristine con.) It’s an option for this situation
Nerijus, I know you're a smart guy, and I also know you're fairly new to this. If you'd like to have someone explain some of the benefits and why some of the decisions were made the way they were on this product, I'd be happy to help. As far as the limitations, there are definitely some workarounds which would have changed the situation with this processor, if you'd only known about them. The complaints you have also aren't relevant our other products, so complaining about Audison as a brand is a bit unfair, since we make several different processors, and these limitations don't apply to them (they also don't apply to the Virtuoso in IIR mode, and there are even ways to get more channel-specific bands in FIR mode - let me know if you'd like the inside scoop on that!
We are instructed how to use these methods. And if a dealer is unsure, we call the technical phone line and they help us solve the issue. It's a pretty simple process.
The problem I see with these software(s), (audiocontrol being the worst offender) You guys are trying to make everything "simple" so average joe can jump in "set crossovers" do some "eq" and wow, its tuned! For people that are not morons, look at others (Helix of course). You jump in. everything is right there. no special training, no workarounds needed. I might have skimmed this video, but I think Nerijus spent 3 hours before he could even figure out where to start? who's gonna account for that time?
If your solution to the lack of intuitiveness within the software is a "workaround" or a different/more expensive line of your products then you've already lost the plot.
Audison is shit because I had Lil experience and right out the box, this guy knows what he is saying I have been there I wish I can post pictures and upload videos right now the dsp am using is Expert px2 and no way no how you gonna beat that... because he testing your shit products and gives proof of the products makes him a bad person, remember he is not being sponsored or getting payed like the rest of the guys on RUclips that has a lot of followers to bring your business back up because sales are slowing down and will have to close down, the only product that I only keep is epicenter old model after that it just keep getting worse! buddy as mentioned keep up the good work and do not forget where you started and waiting on my gears to arrive do you have an email or Facebook?
Sorry to hear of your frustrations Nerijus Kochanskas, how much time have you spent LEARNING how to use the (OLD) Audison DSP Software? AND did you contact an Audison Technician to assist you? (It might have been EASIER than making this Video...lol) Audison Amps are made EVERY bit as well as Helix, the are differences in the Software! 1. The OLD Audison DSP software was designed a long time ago, by a third-party developer. People who try to tune the OLD Audison software - who have problems with it - Have NOT taken the time to LEARN how to do it CORRECTLY and thus complain that it is no good...! 2. The NEW Audison DSP Software (used on the Audison Forza Line) was developed in-house and is MORE User friendly..! Now, that is not saying that it is better or worse than Helix, or that is it is EASIER to use, but an Installer still needs to LEARN how to PROPERLY use it and Audsion Technical Reps are available to assist those of you with problems…!
Thank you for your comment. The whole purpose of the video (like most of my videos to be honest) is to show regular DIYers how I am constantly learning things. My videos are about my subjective experiences. I am comparing this DSP to Helix, as I am used to Helix. Maybe it's not fair for me to expect Audison Virtuoso to have same functionality as Helix, but any one who comes from Helix ecosystem will experience same "problems". I wanted to show that. Now I spent a great deal of time reading the manual and watching training videos, so I will have a second go at it.
whats the point of having a dsp with dedicated channels and everything when the EQ is with 9 bands that interoperate with eachother via that one EQ? pointless. thats neither nerjus or Lombardi Tech SA that does the job for eletromedia now. i was going to buy audison 8.9 before i saw this video just showing how limited i was going to be steven. did they solve this "problem" with their forza in-house windows application/program? any idea? i havent bought a dsp yet. though 99% i will buy the matchup from audiotec-fischer/helix.
hello steven, thank you for your detailed input in nerijus' youtube channel. More information is always needed in the community. the new forza line with the formidable af 8.14bit is a very interesting lineup yet i am unable to find the NEW software you are talking about. your comment is one year old and on their website maybe they did some updates but they have only one software and its this software nerijus has some complaints about. wich new software you talking about? Thank you.
@@GuitarTherapy144 audison bit drive, it is better, but UI is a bit cumbersome. A lot of controls are too small and it feels half baked overall. If audison wants to improve they should gather user feedback and make changes. Making program manager happy by ticking all feature boxes is not the way. This FIM mode is gone I think, which is a pitty, number of eq bands is a bit low, but I could live with that. My main problem with EQ was this stupid parametric window where everything is super small and you barely see what you are doing. What is not intuitive there for me is input to output assignment, I did not find a way to do whatever I want, instead SW tries to use preconfigured options. Virtual channels - I haven't found anything like that, but if it is there and people can't find it, it is software's fault.
I am using new SW form Audison for M12.14 with Audison speakers APK163. I spent hours to learn it for half of year and have tried to get good sound. Unfortunately, it is not easy and still system sounds not good. Half of mid and high frequencies sounds good, but not the rest, especially woofers AP6.5 :(, no bass. Those videos help to understand full concept on SW installation iso "ear's" installation. After two months, I am converging. My experience shows that it is important to choose the right house curve. Audison's HC are not good for me because almost no bass especially during driving. Either woofers are bad or something else, still struggle to understand (In previous car the Apline's woofers gave so much bass, that subwoofer stayed in house and was never installed). As SW designer and architect for biggest manufacturing company I can give my feedback: Audison's SW is more intuitive for beginners, but has missing features in comparison with Helix: 1) 15 bands EQ only per channel, 2) not possible load EQ, for example from REW, 3) time alignment initial settings only in cm and can be added/set in ms only per channel, 4) does not support (still) different filters for LPF and HPF of the same channel, 5) and has most irritated feature to start the SW with linked X-overs :(. So many times I have to reopen backup and redo X-overs, awful. Only one benefit I see, it runs on win7, whereas Helix does not, due to that I made wrong choice.
Completamente de acuerdo con todo lo que comentaste en el video Nerijus, pasé por la misma experiencia y terminé con un mal sabor de boca de ese DSP, sobre todo porque no es un producto accesible en precio y sin embargo tiene un montón de limitaciones lo cual resulta contradictorio ya que cualquier DSP debería darte mas opciones de ajuste y ecualización y liberarte de las típicas limitaciones de una unidad de cabeza tradicional, se que tiene algunas ventajas y puede tener componentes de buena calidad en su construcción pero si la interfaz no permite al usuario poder disponer de toda la tecnología limita bastante su buen uso. No podría decir que es un mal producto ya que viene de una marca que es muy conocida y muy usaba en sistemas de audio, sin embargo definitivamente preferiría usar cualquier otro DSP de las tantas otras marcas serias que existen en el mercado para calidad de sonido. Excelente video como siempre y gracias por compartirnos tus experiencias.
After watching your film I decided to try out newer software for audison dsp (unfortunatelly it does not support older hardware). Out of the frustrations you mention only the one seems to be still there - the fact that moving one correction affects the other. But honestly I am not sure if Helix doesn't do that as well, just does not graph it properly. Is there any chance you could try to measure it on different Q values?
I have an Audison Forza AF M8.14 Bit that I installed recently in my Toyota. I have tried tunning this DSP Amp for the last two weeks but still sounds like a piece of shit and this is sound coming from the digital output of my Fiio M17 DAP through the B Con.
I think you re complaining about the wrong things about this dsp, and uninformed about other things. Regarding the linked crossover points, overlapping drivers has little use and it really only works between the sub and low-mid drivers if you don’t want to build a comb filtering device. Also, you should also know that adjusting an eq band will also alter the nearby freq. for example, if you add a 6 dB boost at 100Hz with a Q factor of 1, at 200Hz and 50Hz there will also be a 3 dB boost. This is the way every eq works, it adds all the bands together. It’s just that some interfaces let you see that, some don’t. And somehow you re angry at the one that’s telling you the truth.
Today (2024) The Pioneer most complete Multimedia Receiver models have advanced features, such as: 13-band graphic equalizer; active crossover; time alignment; 3 pre-amplified RCA audio outputs (4V); 3-way network mode (Low, Mid, High). So I ask: could the use of a Multimedia Receiver like this from Pioneer “in theory” eliminate the need for an audio processor (DSP)? Or in practice will using a DSP always yield superior audio quality?
Perfect timing! I was planning to make a video exactly about that. Probably this week I will attempt to tune a simple system only with the capabilities of a typical head unit. Stay tuned!
I would say the ability to EQ each speaker is what makes this “pro grade“ which is how the system fine tuneable. Including setting crossover frequency and slopes. Otherwise if you have overall good, matched components and a compliant speaker placement or cabin, the 13 band can go a long way for many
Could anyone recommend someone to rebuild these A pillars. Too expensive to buy new pillars, and unlikely to find these second hand as car is a new model.
These Audison amps/dsp are really terrible. How amazing was my upgrade from it to Helix :) I really do not understand how anybody can adjust full band properly with dsp like this. Also do not understand how Audison could sell products like this. 😂
I have audison amps ,and dsp in my truck, he using the fir filters which r great for phasing ,but requires more processing power ,he should have used iir mode with graphics eq .then u have 31 bands of eq
Just for the record, the wiring in that car was terrible! All the amps and DSP were daisy chained from one to the other! New fused distribution, no ferrules, no safe connections and terminations. I bet the ground was also just self tapped into a flimsy spot welded part of the car, just like the one i had to fix few days ago coming from the same shop! I could recognise the installer from another system's wiring!!! If they have such low attention and experience, then you can not expect more when it comes to actually making a system sound good too! Unfortunately it's the classic way of selling expensive equipment, shoving everything in the car as quick as possible, so the customer can see that everything was fitted from all the cardboard boxes he paid for and then handing over the card machine. :( Thankfully now he knows that there are good shops and individuals out there, so he won't be disappointed in the future ever again! Good luck John with your system and i hope you can come to the next meeting proudly with a great system!
John is coming tomorrow, will definately check out the wiring, thanks for the heads up👍
For sure Peter.
Look forward to seeing you again.’Nerijus has done some great work today refitting the speakers
/ wiring fuses etc.
Just can’t wait
For Lee at
Platinum to change the dsp to helix, rebuild A.Pillars, and change speakers to micro precision .
Don’t know what I would have done without your input and advice.
Thank you
So very much. Good luck in
Salzburg .
If you change the software to advanced mode, it won't auto adjust frequency on the mid range if you change the Tweeter
Great work Nerijus! Impressed what you managed to do with such a limited tool. Would be intresting to hear the owner's impression of your tune in comparison to the previous.
FIR processing is very capable but requires more data power than what a small box with limited processing power can provide and you need a computer to fully utilise it, yet.... when it is as limited as you experienced its no point in my opinion. Same with minidsp dsp solutions that is based on "taps" that I have used extensively in home hifi. Fine for correcting mids and tweets, but when you get into bass where its really needed, you run out of computing power in a whiff. That's why I hooked up a computer with unlimited processing power to my stereo at home
I tuned a couple of cars with audison and IIR filters and it was not too bad to work with, but surely Helix is way more intuitive and flexible. I think the owner doing the right move ditching the dsp, but a revision of the a pillars would be a great future upgrade as well. I would personally prioritise that before the midbass. I'm not totally convinced that the underseats would be a gamechanger before the mids are optimal placed
The owner will definately change the pillars, however first priority is to have more functionality in tuning. Customer left with a smile on his face, that is the most important part🙂 The system will.only improve with the future upgrades.
Sounds so much better now. Anybody out there who doesn’t know about tuning,I strongly recommend you contact Nerijus. You will be amazed and delighted with what he can do. 10/10
@@RAW-CAt
Hi Nerijus,
I have for sale - Helix DSP Pro with Director and Hec for reasonable price (all in pristine con.)
It’s an option for this situation
@@johnpetermckinley did you buy Nerijus a McD happy meal after that?😋
@@PeteSHLeonglol
There is an "iir mode on" button that means you could have tried non fir right there. Without the wizard.
Live and learn😁
Nerijus, I know you're a smart guy, and I also know you're fairly new to this. If you'd like to have someone explain some of the benefits and why some of the decisions were made the way they were on this product, I'd be happy to help. As far as the limitations, there are definitely some workarounds which would have changed the situation with this processor, if you'd only known about them. The complaints you have also aren't relevant our other products, so complaining about Audison as a brand is a bit unfair, since we make several different processors, and these limitations don't apply to them (they also don't apply to the Virtuoso in IIR mode, and there are even ways to get more channel-specific bands in FIR mode - let me know if you'd like the inside scoop on that!
Your dealerships should be instructed in these tuning methods.
We are instructed how to use these methods.
And if a dealer is unsure, we call the technical phone line and they help us solve the issue.
It's a pretty simple process.
The problem I see with these software(s), (audiocontrol being the worst offender) You guys are trying to make everything "simple" so average joe can jump in "set crossovers" do some "eq" and wow, its tuned! For people that are not morons, look at others (Helix of course). You jump in. everything is right there. no special training, no workarounds needed.
I might have skimmed this video, but I think Nerijus spent 3 hours before he could even figure out where to start? who's gonna account for that time?
If your solution to the lack of intuitiveness within the software is a "workaround" or a different/more expensive line of your products then you've already lost the plot.
Audison is shit because I had Lil experience and right out the box, this guy knows what he is saying I have been there I wish I can post pictures and upload videos right now the dsp am using is Expert px2 and no way no how you gonna beat that... because he testing your shit products and gives proof of the products makes him a bad person, remember he is not being sponsored or getting payed like the rest of the guys on RUclips that has a lot of followers to bring your business back up because sales are slowing down and will have to close down, the only product that I only keep is epicenter old model after that it just keep getting worse! buddy as mentioned keep up the good work and do not forget where you started and waiting on my gears to arrive do you have an email or Facebook?
We just did a Mazda bt50 with Theisis tweeters, active two way front. They sound amazing, so smooth. Definitely installation....☺️
Sorry to hear of your frustrations Nerijus Kochanskas, how much time have you spent LEARNING how to use the (OLD) Audison DSP Software? AND did you contact an Audison Technician to assist you? (It might have been EASIER than making this Video...lol)
Audison Amps are made EVERY bit as well as Helix, the are differences in the Software!
1. The OLD Audison DSP software was designed a long time ago, by a third-party developer. People who try to tune the OLD Audison software - who have problems with it - Have NOT taken the time to LEARN how to do it CORRECTLY and thus complain that it is no good...!
2. The NEW Audison DSP Software (used on the Audison Forza Line) was developed in-house and is MORE User friendly..! Now, that is not saying that it is better or worse than Helix, or that is it is EASIER to use, but an Installer still needs to LEARN how to PROPERLY use it and Audsion Technical Reps are available to assist those of you with problems…!
Thank you for your comment. The whole purpose of the video (like most of my videos to be honest) is to show regular DIYers how I am constantly learning things. My videos are about my subjective experiences. I am comparing this DSP to Helix, as I am used to Helix. Maybe it's not fair for me to expect Audison Virtuoso to have same functionality as Helix, but any one who comes from Helix ecosystem will experience same "problems". I wanted to show that. Now I spent a great deal of time reading the manual and watching training videos, so I will have a second go at it.
whats the point of having a dsp with dedicated channels and everything when the EQ is with 9 bands that interoperate with eachother via that one EQ? pointless. thats neither nerjus or Lombardi Tech SA that does the job for eletromedia now. i was going to buy audison 8.9 before i saw this video just showing how limited i was going to be steven. did they solve this "problem" with their forza in-house windows application/program? any idea? i havent bought a dsp yet. though 99% i will buy the matchup from audiotec-fischer/helix.
hello steven, thank you for your detailed input in nerijus' youtube channel. More information is always needed in the community. the new forza line with the formidable af 8.14bit is a very interesting lineup yet i am unable to find the NEW software you are talking about. your comment is one year old and on their website maybe they did some updates but they have only one software and its this software nerijus has some complaints about. wich new software you talking about? Thank you.
@@GuitarTherapy144 audison bit drive, it is better, but UI is a bit cumbersome. A lot of controls are too small and it feels half baked overall. If audison wants to improve they should gather user feedback and make changes. Making program manager happy by ticking all feature boxes is not the way. This FIM mode is gone I think, which is a pitty, number of eq bands is a bit low, but I could live with that. My main problem with EQ was this stupid parametric window where everything is super small and you barely see what you are doing. What is not intuitive there for me is input to output assignment, I did not find a way to do whatever I want, instead SW tries to use preconfigured options. Virtual channels - I haven't found anything like that, but if it is there and people can't find it, it is software's fault.
I am using new SW form Audison for M12.14 with Audison speakers APK163. I spent hours to learn it for half of year and have tried to get good sound. Unfortunately, it is not easy and still system sounds not good. Half of mid and high frequencies sounds good, but not the rest, especially woofers AP6.5 :(, no bass. Those videos help to understand full concept on SW installation iso "ear's" installation. After two months, I am converging. My experience shows that it is important to choose the right house curve. Audison's HC are not good for me because almost no bass especially during driving. Either woofers are bad or something else, still struggle to understand (In previous car the Apline's woofers gave so much bass, that subwoofer stayed in house and was never installed).
As SW designer and architect for biggest manufacturing company I can give my feedback:
Audison's SW is more intuitive for beginners, but has missing features in comparison with Helix: 1) 15 bands EQ only per channel, 2) not possible load EQ, for example from REW, 3) time alignment initial settings only in cm and can be added/set in ms only per channel, 4) does not support (still) different filters for LPF and HPF of the same channel, 5) and has most irritated feature to start the SW with linked X-overs :(. So many times I have to reopen backup and redo X-overs, awful.
Only one benefit I see, it runs on win7, whereas Helix does not, due to that I made wrong choice.
Completamente de acuerdo con todo lo que comentaste en el video Nerijus, pasé por la misma experiencia y terminé con un mal sabor de boca de ese DSP, sobre todo porque no es un producto accesible en precio y sin embargo tiene un montón de limitaciones lo cual resulta contradictorio ya que cualquier DSP debería darte mas opciones de ajuste y ecualización y liberarte de las típicas limitaciones de una unidad de cabeza tradicional, se que tiene algunas ventajas y puede tener componentes de buena calidad en su construcción pero si la interfaz no permite al usuario poder disponer de toda la tecnología limita bastante su buen uso.
No podría decir que es un mal producto ya que viene de una marca que es muy conocida y muy usaba en sistemas de audio, sin embargo definitivamente preferiría usar cualquier otro DSP de las tantas otras marcas serias que existen en el mercado para calidad de sonido.
Excelente video como siempre y gracias por compartirnos tus experiencias.
After watching your film I decided to try out newer software for audison dsp (unfortunatelly it does not support older hardware). Out of the frustrations you mention only the one seems to be still there - the fact that moving one correction affects the other. But honestly I am not sure if Helix doesn't do that as well, just does not graph it properly. Is there any chance you could try to measure it on different Q values?
This is the worst way to place tweeters.
Directed to the listening area - no
Reflections - yes.
It`s hard to expect SQ above average in that case.
The pillars were rebuild and now the system soounds amazing🙂
You need to change the work mode to expert in order to change whatever you want, in standar mode is like fool proof
I have an Audison Forza AF M8.14 Bit that I installed recently in my Toyota. I have tried tunning this DSP Amp for the last two weeks but still sounds like a piece of shit and this is sound coming from the digital output of my Fiio M17 DAP through the B Con.
I think you re complaining about the wrong things about this dsp, and uninformed about other things. Regarding the linked crossover points, overlapping drivers has little use and it really only works between the sub and low-mid drivers if you don’t want to build a comb filtering device. Also, you should also know that adjusting an eq band will also alter the nearby freq. for example, if you add a 6 dB boost at 100Hz with a Q factor of 1, at 200Hz and 50Hz there will also be a 3 dB boost. This is the way every eq works, it adds all the bands together. It’s just that some interfaces let you see that, some don’t. And somehow you re angry at the one that’s telling you the truth.
Today (2024) The Pioneer most complete Multimedia Receiver models have advanced features, such as: 13-band graphic equalizer; active crossover; time alignment; 3 pre-amplified RCA audio outputs (4V); 3-way network mode (Low, Mid, High). So I ask: could the use of a Multimedia Receiver like this from Pioneer “in theory” eliminate the need for an audio processor (DSP)? Or in practice will using a DSP always yield superior audio quality?
Perfect timing! I was planning to make a video exactly about that. Probably this week I will attempt to tune a simple system only with the capabilities of a typical head unit. Stay tuned!
Thanks.
I would say the ability to EQ each speaker is what makes this “pro grade“ which is how the system fine tuneable. Including setting crossover frequency and slopes.
Otherwise if you have overall good, matched components and a compliant speaker placement or cabin, the 13 band can go a long way for many
also, small dirt in your video is extrapolated, why?
What does off-axis mean?
On axis - speakers aimed at the listener. Off axis - speakers aimed anywhere but the listener.
sorry toooo painful. cannot blame Audison!!!
Great video. Could you please share the target curves?
You can find my custom targets in CAT-BUG that is free to download:
drive.google.com/file/d/1DMbGKK9qxPEaIyqKOEr2NsiK2QKiLruZ/view?usp=drivesdk
Wow 🫡. Thanks a bunch
Hey, where in the uk are you based. Just building a new system and may need help with tune. Hope you will be interested.
Manchester. You can find me on FB.
Could anyone recommend someone to rebuild these A pillars. Too expensive to buy new pillars, and unlikely to find these second hand as car is a new model.
Where are you located?
kindly supply pink noise before your explanation
Just wonder how much do you charge for your customer.
As an amateur, I can't charge much🙂
what a long-winded way to say "I'm not familiar with Audison software"
Yes, that is very true. Thank you for watching😉
UMC UMC tune :P
Which dsp?
Virtuoso
hi sir i am send a raw masurement file your mail id plz suggest me ideal crossover detail thanks
These Audison amps/dsp are really terrible. How amazing was my upgrade from it to Helix :) I really do not understand how anybody can adjust full band properly with dsp like this. Also do not understand how Audison could sell products like this. 😂
I have audison amps ,and dsp in my truck, he using the fir filters which r great for phasing ,but requires more processing power ,he should have used iir mode with graphics eq .then u have 31 bands of eq
Audison amps are ok.
@@8799crosbycould you please explain how fir and phasing avoidance works?
what factory radio?
Nissan factory head unit that came with the car🤷🏻♂️