I love the comment about having a conversation with your body. I did that about a week ago, and actually profusely apologized for all I have put my back through. I felt like I was crazy for doing that, but considering what crazy things I've done, I'm amazed that I can still walk! Thanks for this video. Totally changes how I viewed my 10 years of back pain
I worked with this model for 2 years for leg, hip, cramping muscles, sciatica nerve pain. I had improvement and then relapse. It finally turned out that my hip was necrotic, my femur head was shredded and collapsed. It was a mess. I had a hip replacement. But what I found was that just learning there was a structural issue that could be addressed reduced my pain by 60% because the fear and constant ruminating ceased. I used meditation, breathing, and self-hypnosis to reduce fear further and reframe the surgery from scary to restorative. I had a very successful surgery and needed very little pain meds. I took only Tylenol, did not need narcotics and healed very well. I clearly had the hybrid of primary and secondary pain and I used a hybrid strategy to recover. I am fully active and pain free. Your work provides science based evidence for my experience. Thank you!
Your experience was very helpful to me. I may have hybrid of primary and secondary pain. I’m still looking into all this, feeling hopeful🙌Thank you for sharing!
Did LIN Health know that you were a hybrid when you started with their program? I was thinking that the assessment would have tried them. How did that change the approach to this treatment? Or is out the same approach?
How did that happen? Femurs don’t typically become “shredded” unless there is some kind of infection or auto immune disease process. Typically, these kind of issues are evident in blood work.
Thanks Yoni & Deb. I’ve been through a million videos on the subject and I’ve found this one particularly informative or perhaps transformative. I think speaking on the subject can really help people. I’ve decided to do some writing about evidence today, or lack thereof. Thank you!
It makes me a bit sad that pain patients are concerned a burden. I remember my mom meeting with a new GP, and he wouldn’t take her on because she had chronic pain. I think the medical system has significantly failed us by not providing these modalities as a cure.
Fantastic content! Thanks a lot for sharing! Looking forward to do the training. It's a bit expensive for me, living in a developing country. I hope I can find a way, bc there are so many people in need of this treatment where I live.
Hello everyone I think I have nearly convinced myself my pain is neuroplastic. I have been to two doctors. They have found absolutely nothing wrong with me. It would be so helpful to me if I knew certain symptoms other people cured them with these techniques. I hear a bunch of stories on the podcast specifically about pain. But I have a lot of i guess Flu like or covid like symptoms. Again doctors found nothing wrong) The * ones I need most convincing about. I just want to know if other people have seen these symptoms reduce in themselves. Pins Needles * Headaches Swelled glands in my groin.* Feeling hot/ fake fevers. I have took my temperature it's normal. Feeling wiped out * anxiety brain fog * stabbing pains in chest and arms aches in legs coughing, snotty nose * bubbly digestive system * unusual bowl movements and stomach pain *
Arthritis is simply a physical anomaly that many physicians will often correlate to give you a reason for your pain. The whole purpose of this type of training is to unlearn the idea of having pain as a result, necessarily, of a physical abnormality.
Tanner Murtagh is a great somatic teacher on RUclips. His videos give you details as to what to do, including daily somatic tracking. Reading books written about this can be very helpful too, as theseventh suggested. Gordon's book is great. This video is helpful and informative, though, and the science is fascinating.
Same here. My first instinct was that it is a bee. Then when i started thinking more about it i wasn't quite sure, but my idea was still that it was a bee and that is what it turned out to be. I don't know if that is a good or a bad thing...
Yes. The brain can interpret a danger signal as a threat and would send signals over the pain pathways. In fact, our brains have evolved to alert us to emotional distress through the same pathways they use to tune us into physical injury, and both types of pain can feel equally intense.
Stillthis pain is real, all pain is real. When you give someone an emotional injury and do an F MRI of the brain and then you give them a physical injury and do F MRI of the brain is the images are the same. Because the danger salience network of the brain activates pain and it can activate pain in relation to a physical injury or it can activate pain in relation to an emotional injury. So, if your boss is micromanaging you, if your spouse is cheating, if your kids are doing drugs. That can cause physical pain because it's activating the exact same danger signal that an injury would. That's how our brains are constructed.
Yes. I went from chronic migraines to being able to stop them before they get acute. A few times a year I’ll get one that wipes me out BUT only for a few hours and not for days.
Reading Dr. Sarnos book on back pain has really helped me with chronic pain. It has not completely relieved my symptoms but by educating myself and finally finding a strategy I can follow.
Yes, we absolutely have! We treat both Primary and Secondary pain. While primary pain is pain solely driven by the brain, secondary pain is when the brain-driven pain is secondary to some structural issue, yet there is typically a strong component of brain-driven pain that gets wrapped up in any structural issue. Our coaches and clinical team are well equipped to deal with both primary and secondary pain, and have helped people with both manage their pain and return to their lives!
Still, this pain is real, all pain is real. When you give someone an emotional injury and do an F MRI of the brain and then you give them a physical injury and do F MRI of the brain is the images are the same. Because the danger salience network of the brain activates pain and it can activate pain in relation to a physical injury or it can activate pain in relation to an emotional injury. So, if your boss is micromanaging you, if your spouse is cheating, if your kids are doing drugs. That can cause physical pain because it's activating the exact same danger signal that an injury would. That's how our brains are constructed.
Do you mean Dr Sarno's extensive clinical observations? Ira Rashbaum published one paper with him. Gordon, Schubiner and others have been in a position to advance the research. Dr Sarno's name for the illness turned out not to accurately describe it so it's been redefined several times. Gordon, Schubiner, Lumley and dozens of others have been in the position to advance Sarno and others early clinical observations into published research - and as far as I can tell many give due credit to Dr Sarno at every opportunity.
U can't tell yourself your not in a dangerous situation if u have been your hole life mine is frim an injury to my spine alongside abuse consequences of my childhood
I believe that there are ways to come out of the fear and to get better. Don't stop looking for what works for you. I hope that you have a great counselor, if not, please consider getting one. I would be remiss if I didn't mention Wim Hof Method breathwork, this most always helps me out of my pain cycle and it helps with anxiety too!
@@johnklahn7720 part of the problem with doing a process like Wim Hof method is that it is often done from the state of mind that the anxiety is something real, or that it is, there for a real reason. In that respect it’s just like the theory behind taking a medication. The whole idea of pain reprocessing therapy, even for anxiety, is to learn that it is an incorrect brain signal, and that it is not necessary for your continued survival and development. Once you unlearn it, you don’t need to do anything about it.
There is one notable flaw in the study I cannot resist highlighting: the control groups are kind of terrible. They can’t really “control” anything. Ashar et al. told the people in the placebo group that the injections were saline solution, so … yeah, not actually a placebo control there.4 And the usual-care group had the same problem they always do: you can do literally anything to people that’s “unusual,” and it will probably outperform “usual,” and that doesn’t mean it’s effective. Dr. Edzard Ernst called this design “unethical pseudo-science.”5
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I love the comment about having a conversation with your body. I did that about a week ago, and actually profusely apologized for all I have put my back through. I felt like I was crazy for doing that, but considering what crazy things I've done, I'm amazed that I can still walk! Thanks for this video. Totally changes how I viewed my 10 years of back pain
I worked with this model for 2 years for leg, hip, cramping muscles, sciatica nerve pain. I had improvement and then relapse. It finally turned out that my hip was necrotic, my femur head was shredded and collapsed. It was a mess. I had a hip replacement. But what I found was that just learning there was a structural issue that could be addressed reduced my pain by 60% because the fear and constant ruminating ceased. I used meditation, breathing, and self-hypnosis to reduce fear further and reframe the surgery from scary to restorative. I had a very successful surgery and needed very little pain meds. I took only Tylenol, did not need narcotics and healed very well. I clearly had the hybrid of primary and secondary pain and I used a hybrid strategy to recover. I am fully active and pain free. Your work provides science based evidence for my experience. Thank you!
Your experience was very helpful to me. I may have hybrid of primary and secondary pain. I’m still looking into all this, feeling hopeful🙌Thank you for sharing!
This is why PRT + a medical assessment are a wonderful team. So fantastic you were able to use these skills for your post surgical experience.
Did LIN Health know that you were a hybrid when you started with their program? I was thinking that the assessment would have tried them. How did that change the approach to this treatment? Or is out the same approach?
How did that happen? Femurs don’t typically become “shredded” unless there is some kind of infection or auto immune disease process. Typically, these kind of issues are evident in blood work.
This sounds just like me... I think I need to get an Xray. 2 years of pain! 😭
Thanks Yoni & Deb. I’ve been through a million videos on the subject and I’ve found this one particularly informative or perhaps transformative. I think speaking on the subject can really help people. I’ve decided to do some writing about evidence today, or lack thereof. Thank you!
It makes me a bit sad that pain patients are concerned a burden. I remember my mom meeting with a new GP, and he wouldn’t take her on because she had chronic pain. I think the medical system has significantly failed us by not providing these modalities as a cure.
Thank you both! That was so informative and encouraging ❤
Fantastic content! Thanks a lot for sharing! Looking forward to do the training. It's a bit expensive for me, living in a developing country. I hope I can find a way, bc there are so many people in need of this treatment where I live.
Fantastic presentation. Thank you very much.
Wondering if this could help with tinitus... will try based on the technique in alan's book
I was wondering the same thing, as a person who suffers from tinnitus it would be life changing
I worked with tinnitus , and yes it can be solved .
Howard Shubiners book Unlearn your Pain talks about tinnitus.
Hi, great presentation. Is there any chance you could release the power point slides. It'd be a great resource to use with patients.
We just need to understand that the pain isn’t the problem it’s our reaction to the pain that is the problem.
Hello everyone I think I have nearly convinced myself my pain is neuroplastic. I have been to two doctors. They have found absolutely nothing wrong with me. It would be so helpful to me if I knew certain symptoms other people cured them with these techniques. I hear a bunch of stories on the podcast specifically about pain. But I have a lot of i guess Flu like or covid like symptoms. Again doctors found nothing wrong) The * ones I need most convincing about. I just want to know if other people have seen these symptoms reduce in themselves.
Pins Needles *
Headaches
Swelled glands in my groin.*
Feeling hot/ fake fevers. I have took my temperature it's normal.
Feeling wiped out *
anxiety
brain fog *
stabbing pains in chest and arms
aches in legs
coughing, snotty nose *
bubbly digestive system *
unusual bowl movements and stomach pain *
Could you tell me where arthritis comes into this?
Arthritis is simply a physical anomaly that many physicians will often correlate to give you a reason for your pain. The whole purpose of this type of training is to unlearn the idea of having pain as a result, necessarily, of a physical abnormality.
I wish there were something like this for habits.
Check out clinical hypnotherapy!
What does this show us about Pharmaceutical drug trials for "chronic pain" and making drugs that are competely ineffective or even dangerous!
How do I change the pain?? You guys keep talking but I don't know what you're talking about.
Tell me what to do to get rid of my pain. Thank you.
Read 'The Way Out' by Alan Gordon
Tanner Murtagh is a great somatic teacher on RUclips. His videos give you details as to what to do, including daily somatic tracking. Reading books written about this can be very helpful too, as theseventh suggested. Gordon's book is great. This video is helpful and informative, though, and the science is fascinating.
Dr Sarno. Lecture and even an audiobook are available on YT free of charge
Thanks for this presentation! Are there any tips on treating people who experience primary pain and have autism? Would love to hear your opinion!
I actually did quickly see that bee in the first black and white picture so what does that suggest in what you’re outlining?
Same here. My first instinct was that it is a bee. Then when i started thinking more about it i wasn't quite sure, but my idea was still that it was a bee and that is what it turned out to be.
I don't know if that is a good or a bad thing...
Can the non-pain threats cause back pain?
Yes. The brain can interpret a danger signal as a threat and would send signals over the pain pathways. In fact, our brains have evolved to alert us to emotional distress through the same pathways they use to tune us into physical injury, and both types of pain can feel equally intense.
Stillthis pain is real, all pain is real. When you give someone an emotional injury and do an F MRI of the brain and then you give them a physical injury and do F MRI of the brain is the images are the same.
Because the danger salience network of the brain activates pain and it can activate pain in relation to a physical injury or it can activate pain in relation to an emotional injury. So, if your boss is micromanaging you, if your spouse is cheating, if your kids are doing drugs. That can cause physical pain because it's activating the exact same danger signal that an injury would. That's how our brains are constructed.
@@MarcJune-n8g Fascinating science. Thanks for sharing.
What’s with the audio fluctuations
I now take. Neuro. Mag for thos problem. It crosses the. Blood. Brain barrier and it works. It's called. Magnesium l threonate.
Where do I find this program?
Read the book by alanngordon: the way out, very simple steps
Can you help people who have been trying to unlearn pain for almost two years with only a little change?
Get Alan Gordon’s book ‘A Way Out’. Explains techniques to rewire and become pain free.
I knew it was a bee right away... but I still have this horrible pain all over that I can't figure out!... so you try not to "figure it out"?
Has this been helpful with chronic migraine/chronic headache/new daily persistent headache?
Yes. I went from chronic migraines to being able to stop them before they get acute. A few times a year I’ll get one that wipes me out BUT only for a few hours and not for days.
Reading Dr. Sarnos book on back pain has really helped me with chronic pain. It has not completely relieved my symptoms but by educating myself and finally finding a strategy I can follow.
Have you guys had much success treating patients with secondary pain? Thx
Yes, we absolutely have! We treat both Primary and Secondary pain. While primary pain is pain solely driven by the brain, secondary pain is when the brain-driven pain is secondary to some structural issue, yet there is typically a strong component of brain-driven pain that gets wrapped up in any structural issue. Our coaches and clinical team are well equipped to deal with both primary and secondary pain, and have helped people with both manage their pain and return to their lives!
This would explain spontaneous remission
She is right on the money when she talks about examining how words are creating a structure that becomes pain
Would EMDR help wirh this?
Still, this pain is real, all pain is real. When you give someone an emotional injury and do an F MRI of the brain and then you give them a physical injury and do F MRI of the brain is the images are the same.
Because the danger salience network of the brain activates pain and it can activate pain in relation to a physical injury or it can activate pain in relation to an emotional injury. So, if your boss is micromanaging you, if your spouse is cheating, if your kids are doing drugs. That can cause physical pain because it's activating the exact same danger signal that an injury would. That's how our brains are constructed.
power of the mind for poor or traumatized people who fall through the very huge racks in the system
WE ARE F___KED
I saw the bee in flowers immediately, but I have a bee phobia. 😅
CRONIC pain-pain that persist for more then 6 months
You just took Dr John Sarnos research and renamed it
Do you mean Dr Sarno's extensive clinical observations? Ira Rashbaum published one paper with him. Gordon, Schubiner and others have been in a position to advance the research. Dr Sarno's name for the illness turned out not to accurately describe it so it's been redefined several times. Gordon, Schubiner, Lumley and dozens of others have been in the position to advance Sarno and others early clinical observations into published research - and as far as I can tell many give due credit to Dr Sarno at every opportunity.
U can't tell yourself your not in a dangerous situation if u have been your hole life mine is frim an injury to my spine alongside abuse consequences of my childhood
I believe that there are ways to come out of the fear and to get better. Don't stop looking for what works for you. I hope that you have a great counselor, if not, please consider getting one. I would be remiss if I didn't mention Wim Hof Method breathwork, this most always helps me out of my pain cycle and it helps with anxiety too!
@@johnklahn7720 part of the problem with doing a process like Wim Hof method is that it is often done from the state of mind that the anxiety is something real, or that it is, there for a real reason. In that respect it’s just like the theory behind taking a medication.
The whole idea of pain reprocessing therapy, even for anxiety, is to learn that it is an incorrect brain signal, and that it is not necessary for your continued survival and development. Once you unlearn it, you don’t need to do anything about it.
That makes sense. thank you! @@dbuck1964
There is one notable flaw in the study I cannot resist highlighting: the control groups are kind of terrible. They can’t really “control” anything.
Ashar et al. told the people in the placebo group that the injections were saline solution, so … yeah, not actually a placebo control there.4
And the usual-care group had the same problem they always do: you can do literally anything to people that’s “unusual,” and it will probably outperform “usual,” and that doesn’t mean it’s effective. Dr. Edzard Ernst called this design “unethical pseudo-science.”5
There’s no evidence of this.
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