"Named Clover after the healing item the yellow soul gives you during the omega flowey fight" Oh boy, i cant wait to meet the other 5 humans! Note, Thumbs Up, Bandaid, E G G and Hope (Hope is a banger name though)
There can be a play of words on those things I know there are fried eggs called Egg Benedict or Sunny Side Up(hello fellow qsmp enjoyers). So the name could be Benedict or Sunny For the Note I think the obvious way to go is to name the person Melody. Bandaid can be play of words of "Patch", something similar to Pacha in New Emperor's Groove maybe? Hope is a pretty name indeed. Unfortunately, I can't think of anything for Thumbs Up soul. And this is not taking into consideration making the names gender-neutral
@@farresalt4381 I said that because I see Benedict as very male name, while Melody is more a female name, but I see what you mean. I would agree that Patch, Hope and Sunny are neutral. It is the other two names what made me think otherwise. But I guess this is a matter of perspective, since for you Melody is neutral as well
@@leanderbeth6682no. Flowey only guided Clover. He unintentionally made clover into no mercy clover due to either the player’s influence or clover hating the monsters due to flowey’s load. Making them forced to relive their deaths until they kill the monster.
he'd probably make it not really matter in the long run and have little to no impact on the story.. is what most people would say. but i say toby would just pull an undertale and make pretty much every choice matter in some way, but just make it goofy for no reason cause why not@@ACYosh
It's implied that Clover actually does remember resets at least vaguely, since repeating neutral runs makes Flowey bring up that Clover seems less scared during his little "I'm gonna torture you with Martlet's geno death because I hate you for that run" shtick.
when does flowey mention the geno route??? Also do you have any videos regarding that if you don't mind? I'm very interested if there are small differences after a geno run
@@IamDoru1 Flowey never mentions it and nothing seems to change after a geno route but the fact he seemed to perfectly recreate Martlet’s death in the geno route (which he would have been alive and around to see) to scare Clover during the neutral route fight in the fake Snowdin segment heavily implies that not only does Flowey remember the geno route but also that it canonically happened and Clover reset.
Clover is a character who desperately wants to be the protagonist of his own story, but in the end he is just a pawn of the much more powerful person who has been manipulating them the whole time, Flowey. From the start of UTY we are given the mindset that Clover is the protagonist, because we play as them. Without any dialog, without any environmental storytelling, just a fact of the game and how we play it, we are put in Clover's mindset. Which is why it is all the more surprising to watch it all crumble apart once you reach Neutral run Flowey.
Honestly i haven't looked at Clover from this angle before. It really does make his character more compelling, and it makes Pacifist ending so much more bittersweet, knowing that despite all the horrifying things Clover has been through, he still chose to be kind, befriend monsters along the way and ultimately give up his life for the future of monsterkind. Undertale Yellow really deserves all the love it's getting. It's an incredible game.
@@gamer-1094it's not bad but clover decides to sacrifice themself for the monsters who tried to take advantage of them so yeah it's not as perfect as it looks
Nah, it makes the pacifist route worse. Martlet, Starlo and Ceroba let this depressed child who has been repeatedly tortured across hundreds of lives kill themselves so that they can have one more soul (which won't even do anything for them until the next human falls since seven are needed to break the barrier.) I love UTY, but they REALLY dropped the ball with the TP ending.
@@leonardomittmann8919 yeah a depreseed child with abusive enviromernt(even before falling underground) who has died more times than any living creature can count gives their soul up yet they said:ok we respect your choice like its going out at night even more stupid knowing ceroba didnt even question clovers sacrifice like cmon youve accidentally killed your child and letting another one die in front of you
Actually i think its even more poetic, and its weird you havent seen it yourself. This kid who has lasted through countless resets, dealing with tons of bs from Flowey's experiments to try and make the run where he gets what he wants, he finally gets to permanently rest. By being kind and making friends, Flowey was not allowed to intervene much, by helping other people, they hear him out to let him help himself. Flowey realises that by Clover sacrificing himself for monsters, it doesn't actively ruin his goal. His soul isnt being destroyed like it was when he kept dying, its being contained and kept with the others, Flowey's plan merely gets delayed, but its also more convenient, now he can try getting 6 souls and waiting for the 7th soul to come to him and become god, while Clover gets to peacefully rest for the first time in his life, with his eternal looping torture finally over, with the thought in his mind that his soul will go to a greater cause, his friends.
About the Vengence(What you called the Regicide route) Route to me it’s more messed up than snowgrave. Still the killer here Clover like Noelle on snowgrave is manipulated into becoming a mass murderer. But instead of gaslighting about it being a dream Flowey gaslights Clover into giving into a Subconscious dustlust for the monsters due to how many times they’ve died before the player got control. This is more messed up as we make clover give in to it and not minipualte Noelle into thinking it’s a dream and getting stronger is worth it. We the Player had the choice to back out into a semi sane neutral(Semi same neutral is just me referring to any aborted Kill them all routes in games like these) Clover entered on pratically a suicide mission to get justice for the 5 fallen humans. Flowey denies the best Outcome of Toriel preventing Clover from signing their own death warrant. We the player along with Clover go on the rampage Flowey 1,000% wanted to happen. Just that that god damn weed they didn’t expect their monster to turn on them.
Let's not forget that alphys in one of the neutral routes said that she wishes she could have killed us when she had the chance, so maybe those lasers are what she meant. We know that she was around the time Clover was there so it's possible.
in the words of emperor Palpatine have you heard the story of Flowey the wise so powerful, he could even stop others from dying until his apprentice strike him down. Ironic he could stop from dying, but he could not save himself.
To be fair Alphys turns the lasers off if your HP gets low also they usually had rules to avoid injury when Frisk encountered them, meanwhile the ones in Flowey's flashback seem to instakill regardless.
What's also interesting is a line of dialogue after the Flowey fight that can happen any time after you beat him for the fourth time and you get a specific fun value saying "... You know? It's strange. Something's off here. We're alone in my mind right now. It's clear that we're alone, right? Then why I can't shake it... Only since you showed up has it been this way. ... I have to reset again. I have to reset until I find the right path. Until you make the right choices. Until it... ", It could be in reference to the player perhaps having a hand in guiding Clover for them to reach new outcomes considering the neutral route implies Clover would always managed to get back to the top of the UG apartments and talk to Martlet, and effectively be a repeat of Toriel leading Clover to stay with her. So perhaps us the player had some hand in helping Clover reach True pacifist and Regicide (though him mentioning how it's been something he's always felt since Clover arrived would probably disprove that something being us since we weren't there with clover when they initially fell into the underground, so my only real other guess could be maybe Chara somehow, though there's not a lot to really prove anything)
I think that fun event is referring to the player, and you can definitely interpret this whole thing as Clover gets better because the player remembers. It's kinda like how things in Undertale can be seen in two different ways, in universe the save system is there because of Determination but out of universe we know it's there because it's a basic game mechanic. I think Clover also has this in universe reason for them getting better each run along with the out of universe explanation that is simply the player existing.
We can say it like this too imo: We (the player) basically act like the subconsciousness of clover inside the game world. But outside, we are the player; and flowey suspects it.@@Grim-c8n
I absolutely adore this video It really shows why the RESET is described as "the power of playing god" in UT The comparison with the weird route is my favorite part of the video
I love this view of Clover so much, it gives them even more character than they already had, and adds perspective to what it'd be like to be trapped in a time loop by a Demonic Flower. It even gives an in-universe reason for Clover to do a No Mercy route beyond the usual meta stuff, which is quite fascinating. The Yellow team did such a phenomenal job with the game, its world and the characters in it. I honestly think it would fit perfectly well in canon if it weren't for some of the timeline inconsistencies. (Mostly related to the Dunes, Steamworks, Core, Gaster and of course Flowey as everyone just LOVES to bring up ad nauseum.) Of course, it's a fangame so it won't ever be canon. Regardless, I think Yellows own unique story compliments UT's world exceptionally well. (Which is what the team was going for, so I'd say it was a huge success on their part.)
I think that the reason Flowey couldn't get pass Asgore is not because he couldn't kill him, its because he needs a human to beat him. Flowey in his genocide monolog in new home suggests now matter how hard he tries Asgore would never show him the souls but believes that Asgore would show Chara the souls. Flowey needs a human to meet Asgore so that he would reveal the souls and he would probably hide them again if he sees Flowey which is why he needs a human to beat him.
If that were the case, Flowey would have definitely took action in the flawed pacifist route (which he didn’t because he was probably too petrified) while Clover was fighting him.
@@AuthenticLeZ flowey prob thought clover would handle asgore the mystery is why didnt flowey revived clover and let asgore take their soul is it cus flowey decided to wait
Here's an idea... what if Frisk started out like clover too, and by the time we got involved they already were conditioned enough to wake up before Toriel... Maybe Flowey Kept ambushing them while we were busy picking a name till Frisk wakes up early and Flowey gives up on the scare tactics and tries a different strategy...
For the first part, keep in mind he's still technically a child... He died and was resurrected into a flower, so he probably kept his childish mentality, with psychopathic issues as well.
5:20 actually, he did kill Asgore he says so to us on a genocide route. And don’t bring him neutral because he was just trying to make us guilty and edgy. In geno he’s filling out his whole heart to his best friend. He wouldn’t lie about the killing everybody in underground including sans . “ he caused my fair share of resets” implied that he still won, but he just was very difficult . it’s made clear on Genocide that flower does not need to kill asgore but he needs him to show him the human souls so he can swoop in and take them . “ i’ve tried hundreds of way to get him to show me them. but he just won’t Chara. I know he’ll do it for you” And logically speaking, it would make sense, because you can just kill him in his sleep .
Something i like about undertale yellow is that the no mercy route isn´t looked like "oh this kid is evil for no reason" like it was in undertale it has a huge reason, revenge, justice to the missing/dead children who unfornately fall in the underground, let them rest in peace and let clover not only escape alive, but end the cycle flowey forces him to be in making it seem like, is only fair
I disagree, Flowey's whole shtick was always doing betrayal/ off guard kills. And even if he vaguely knew the location of souls, he needs Asgore to show it to him, maybe because there is a specific way to summon/ get them from wherever they're stored that only Asgore knows. I mean measures like that would be taken, considering any monster could stroll up to Asgore's castle and attempt to steal them
@IamDoru1 I have a theory on that it’s possible Assgore soul being close could be necessary for them The soul containers to be unlocked After all flower only struck on the pacifist route after The king unlocked the canisters containing the souls, and everyone was distracted it’s possible that flower knows exactly where they are, but the king has to unlock them for him to access them
@@AGGSab There's only one fourth wall break and its during the nuetral boss battle with flowey, where he will look from Clover to us, and tell us the player that we should choose either the pacifist or vengeance route.
The sheer implications of this! Do you know what this could mean?!? If clover does enough regicide routes they might have a chance to actually gain a tiny bit of LV from the get-go, due to that subconscious thing you talked about, so in theory with enough built-up LV could clover somehow get enough determination to somehow save ceroba's daughter? Personally I'm working on a little bit of a story/fan game concept within my own mind, where frisk, after all the runs everyone has done, on the very anniversary of Undertale after a neutral run and after beating flowey, instead of the souls just straight up deleting him with that rainbow-y thing they do, they fly out to frisk, surrounding them, something else happens in-between but I haven't thought that far ahead yet, then with nothing but pure will, they split their soul into three, representing the three possible runs... Genocide is black on the inside, representative of the players who have massacred the entirety of the underground Neutral, just red for now, simply neutral, the most down to earth and realistic one... Pacifist, with an almost golden glistening effect being present, it is a glowing red, representative of those who have saved everyone and everything. Idk what to do from there but I'll keep working on this, something else I thought of was that frisk goes back in time to save the other humans before their death or something like that, slowly but surely they encounter all the other humans, clover would be first, alll until they encounter chara... I may include the plot of the geno, neutral and pacifist variants of frisk going back in time as well, trying to do their own thing, the Geno soul is basically a hatred fueled chara, maybe by killing the neutral or pacifist soul it kills off all of them? Maybe near the end when the pacifist one is trying ti save chara the genocide one wants nothing to do with that, because it is also chara? Idk my train of thought is all messed up rn, still, just an idea.
I am unable to word everything I'm feeling but I absolutely LOVE this concept man! If you ever write & publish it to AO3 or smth lemme know please so I can read it the second I can :D (no pressure of course, I understand how scary it can be to publish a fic)
Honestly, Im not sure why, but I dont seem to get it. The reason why Clover picked slightly different options in timelines is because of the hundrends if not BILLIONS of ways Clover could have thought about what to do, but the reason why Clover stuck to the same route of staying with Toriel is because of their inherent characteristics. The reason why Clover is so "competent" is because of us. The player. We know, we remember. And Flowey sees this and comments on this. But obviously, Clover is under OUR control, so I think if it wasn't for us, Clover would have still been stuck in the same loop over and over. But your theory also sounds plausible! If we exclude the player obviously, so good job! (So the comparison of Clover and Noelle was sooo clever omg)
I saw Clover living with Toriel as him seeing monsters as friendly, I mainly saw that because he either Genocides seeing them as enemies no matter what or spares them all, or judges them in neutral.
I still reference this video a lot when I talk about Clover's personality, stellar job! The choice of background music, especially when going more in depth about his subconscious side, is great too. Thank you for making this.
Genocide Clover has to be my favorite. I really like how this game has a reason for all the killings instead of doing it for fun. It’s one of the first fangames to have a genocide route be more in the gray area than being completely evil. And someone said the Clover vs Martlet fight felt like a clash of ideals than a “good vs evil” fight. (The good and bad depending on who you side with.) but it can be seen both ways.
I don't see it that way. Personally, I see the No Mercy route as a perversion of justice. "Justice" as just death and violence. Choosing to ignore entirely the context and history of a situation, to selfishly proclaim oneself as a righteous avenger and feel entirely justified in meteing out punishment. It's a selfish perspective of justice that is in reality a tool of domination, and is very convenient; since it requires literally no critical thought, no introspection, no recognition of motive or history. It feels good though, doesn't it? Giving people what they *deserve*. Not having to engage with the other party entirely, merely reducing them to a thing to make suffer. Such a dangerous impulse, especially when it happens in contexts of generational inter-societal grievances. Asgore was wrong to punish all of humanity for what happened to Asriel. If that's true, then Clover is wrong to act similarly.
@@DreamersOfReality Pacifist wasn't any better, as Clover just signs the next human life away, letting someone get murdered isn't justice, and letting Asgore destroy humanity also makes Clover look bad. The REAL justice would have been Clover bringing everyone to talk to Asgore to see both sides of the story, but the game just had to rush the ending to kill Clover in both endings. I feel like the game needing Clover to die is what brought it down, if they made more non-canon endings, the game might've had more satisfying endings. I'm not really gonna argue on genocide either, it's just whatever the person thinks of it, and I can't change that.
YES, as soon as i saw all the endings i was thinking about All This and you put it into much better words than i ever could! clover being able to subconsciously remember resets is such an interesting way of diagetically explaining the player's control over them; in undertale (normal) frisk's actions made sense because they remember everything; they navigate the underground so expertly because they've done it before, they kill everyone because they're bored with the same ending over and over. they're basically just an extension of the player. the fact that you can still explain all those things for a character that CAN'T remember everything is Fascinating. also i got jumpscared by the In Stars and Time music lmao. great choice given the topic of the video ;)
@ing15 contradicts, but I don't think that "so fucking much". I thought the only contradictable things were the souls and Flowey and still as I see these aren't big issues to the original lore and can be explained Can you list reasons please?
Yeah, the only huge contradiction is that as far as I know, Flowey was made with the DT from all 6 human souls before Frisk, so he shouldn’t exist at the same time Clover is alive.
@@halyoalex8942 Where does they say that? As far as I remember, it only said that Alphys had used human soul's determination to inject into monsters. I don't think she ever mentioned the amount of souls used.
I saw the 3 ending of yellow as mirroring the original undertales 3 ish ending. In pacifist clover loses his soul but the player has the option to reset with help from flowiy. The neutral rought has a flowey boss fight. The genocide rough is the only way for clover to see the surface again.
I’m pretty sure Flowey attacks Frisk immediately because of their save and load powers which Clover didn’t have without Flowey, and because Frisk’s DETERMINATION was more than Flowey’s
I still feel Flowey fits better than Noelle, because at the end of the Regicide run of UT Yellow, Flowey tries to save over Clover, but it eventually fails, this seems to go with the Neutral run of Undertale, as so far, the player had been in control, and once Flowey absorbs the souls, we try to save over him, and fail, showing Flowey has surpassed us in power, it feels like Clover's POV in the end of the Regicide run works perfectly with Flowey's POV at the end of neutral, which is why Flowey is still a better candidate than Noelle.
Frisk or the Player beating Asgore is due to him not wanting to FIGHT as hard and all the doubts he had pile up over time making him slowly hate what he is doing. When he sees Frisk/Player, Asgore is surprised and steps back. He feels the sins of killing 6 children and trying to start a war after loosing all the family he had. He was FIGHTing nowhere near 100% which is why beating him was possible or as easily as we had. Flowey likely didn't have such a benefit for FIGHTing Asgore due to Flowey wanting to steal the souls and Asgore would still want to protect them since he had an idea of how powerful they would be and not wanting hope to be lost.
Quick Theory: Flowey couldn't have been around during Integrity's life. They seem to be the one before Clover. During the attack on Kanako and Dalv, Chujin hadn't begun work on Axis. Ceroba implies that Asgore was still searching for a new scientist before Axis 8. Flowey was "born" during Alphys' DT experiments as the Royal Scientist. I doubt Monsters would have more Determination than any human. But that brings another question: when did saving start? It doesn't seem like Chara could save, as they seem to react to their time Underground as if it was their first. Did they never get to try since they fused with Asriel before ever dying?
Your point saying “flowery made Undertale yellow” made realise, yellow could obviously be referring to clover’s soul but it could also be referring to flowey who is yellow, pretty obvious now that I think about it
Another thing I always found to be quite sad is that Flowey basically caused Clovers death by not leaving them alone Clover basically had their happy ending on the first try and Flowey took that away for the chance to get the souls and even when Flowey gave up and just let Clover die on pacifist they don't just reset and let Clover be with Toriel
Man, this video really cemented to me what me made truly adore this game after the having done the neutral route. It was genuinely so cool and refreshing to see a UT fan-work actually tackle what it was like to be at the receiving end of the timeline manipulations and not just from Sans but someone who was pawn to said timeline-manipulating being, aka Flowey. As another commenter here pointed out as well, it makes it all the more sweet in the pacifist ending that, even after all the horrible trauma Clover endured there, they still overcome their prejudices and befriend and even help monsters. UTY overall really showed how much golden untapped potential there was in exploring the timeline pre-UT and especially from the previous humans perspective. I hope that the Undertale Blues and Purples will give us a unique and wonderful compliment to UT’s story like this one did.
So you mean to say rather then the player being the puppetmaster. Flowey is controlling the strings to Clover. Interesting take on it honestly I like it
2:23 I think that the reason he attacks you immediately isn't because he's gotten impatient. It's because you've taken away his ability to save and load with your own determination, so he wanted to kill you before you manage to save your progress.
Well, we never really beat Asgore, every time we fought him, he was either holding back, got stabbed in the back, or was just depressed and let us kill him, we never saw his true abilities, he is the strongest monster for a reason.
Tbf clover excuse to dying too. Random encounters and lasers in the Hotland are that a lot of the monsters were a lot more violet or serious at that time after all when frisk fell down it was confirmed that was a massive gap in between when clover fell and when frisk fell Meaning alphys had the lasers turned up to the max and possibly an actual strong snow monster attacked clover with the spikes even if Clover got passed, the enemy sans probably would've instantly killed him where he stood
Oh I never thought of that! Well when you do a True Reset all the characters dialogue about you seeming familiar reverts back to normal, meaning it has a stronger effect on characters other than Flowey. The True Reset also happens when you complete a genocide run and Flowey is just straight up dead at that point so I don't think he'd have any control over what happens to his memories. To be honest though I never really put much thought into how the true reset really works, I just thought of it as more of a game mechanic. Maybe it's like what happens to Clover at the end of the regicide route, in true pacifist and genocide your Determination becomes so strong that it makes your reset stronger. Or maybe it is just a game mechanic idk.
@darestep7844 I mean there is a case to be made for both, it could be that a true reset can only occur if Frisk leaves the underground since it isn't confirmed whether Frisk made it out or not in a neutral run since they didn't have a monster soul to cross the barrier with. On the other hand though, it could just be a game mechanic since the player is confirmed to exist in Undertale's story in the legends of localisation book.
I was thinking the thing flowey was saying about clover remembering things was supposed to be about the existence of the player as an entity that exists, possibly. Your interpretation is more interesting though.
Vengeance/Regicide Clover and Snowgrave Noelle even have a lot of dialogue similarities ^’I’m getting stronger. *(Need to find an exit.) ^Proceed. *(Through those doors.) ^It looks like another enemy. Should I freeze them? *(An enemy is nearby. No loose ends.) ^Watch what happens when I cast a spell I don’t know! *(Let justice be done.) ^Isn’t that the wrong way...? *(The other way.) ^(Noelle, no, don’t think that! It’s horrible...) *(Not of interest.) ^I think, I’m going to go home. *(The end lies beyond.)
I've never really understood why Flowey would have more determination than Clover, you mean to tell me that a flower that was injected with a sample of it has more than a human who produces large amounts of the stuff.
Flowey's the biggest continuity hole in UtY, but UtY was started in 2016 when the fanbase didn't know nearly as much about Undertale lore. By the time it came out the fanbase knew a lot more, but Flowey was so central to UtY that fixing those continuity holes would basically need them to remake the game entirely. It's absolutely the best fangame I've ever played, of any franchise, but it's not without flaws!
I think when Flowey was injected with Determination it put him on the same level as a human. He's basically motivated by his extreme trauma which is a strong source of Determination. In Undertale's Genocide route Flowey also reveals that he was expecting to still have control over the save system when Frisk entered the underground since he tried to reload after he failed to take Frisk's soul. "And when I tried to load my SAVE file... It didn't work. Chara... Your DETERMINATION... Somehow, it's even greater than mine!" I think Chara has a large amount of Determination even for human standards. If the previous fallen humans had a similar amount of Determination they would have never given up, but they had to at some point for their souls to be captured. Chara and Asriel are just built different.
Interestingly enough, the Legends of Localization book about translating Undertale to Japanese makes it clear that it's /The Player's/ determination that is used to save and load, not their own; at least until the final fight in Pacifist. Which makes sense to me, as a player dying is merely an inconvenience for us, but all the former fallen children wouldn't have that degree of separation. Imagine if every time you died in Undertale you had to feel and remember the impossible agony of burning to death, getting impaled, freezing to death, getting crushed, bludgeoned, electrocuted, and all sorts of other ways monsters attack. The game would have been impossible to finish for 99.9% of people, and they all would have given up. That's what all the former children had to go through. Even if they had more determination then Flowey, they'd quickly give up just to stop the pain. Flowey, the only other character who used saving and loading regularly is /a flower/, which don't feel pain like most living beings do; I imagine that's no coincidence.
what ıf flowey also manipulated the other 5, or maybe just 1? I don't know but what I do know is that when frısk falls they break the cycle, and flowey has went his climax and went fully insane to the point they just go straight into wanting to kill frısk, they could have done this from the beginning
i still cant understand how ceroba can encourage childrens suicide after serum from a human soul is EXACTLY what killed her child one dies from a human souls the other one without
Nice video!! I do wonder something though, what about when Flowey dies in near end of the vengance route? Could it be like a he unexpected it? I wonder. Then again, before Clover killed him, he did say that "I know what happens after this" which I wonder what that implies too? Maybe that also supports what you said about Flowey doing the weird route? Again, very interesting and great video!
The ending of no mercy was one of the most viscerally satisfying moments I have ever experienced in a video game. UT Yellow successfully made me enjoy a kill everything route where UT and DR could not, purely because the ends it provides are simply, I don't know, better I guess. I think Clover deserves to see the surface, and none of the monsters are as undisputably unassailable as Papyrus or Monster kid. While I don't actively root for their demise, I also don't care if they have to die for Clover to reach the surface. To me the fate of one child outweighs the lives of those would would attack it, no matter how many. The closest to a victim we get is AXIS, but at the end of the day that's not a victim we can use to attack the morality of the route. AXIS does what he does for lack of other options, as do we do what we do for lack of better options. UT yellow's greatness to me is in posing the question of where you draw the line in terms of self defense by truly leaving you with no alternative, and by making the 'bad' route of the game offer an arguably better outcome than the 'good' or 'neutral'. For me I really had no choice but to admit that to me the ends justify the means. And not in a strawman way where you do awful shit under the pretense that it'll work out. In a literal sense clover's survival relies on the deaths of those that attack them.
What the fuck dude Like seriously, what the fuck. Deltarune and Undertale genocide routes aren't ejoyable because they're not MEANT to be, they were designed to be bad. To make you FEEL bad, because that's the world view and lesson the game is trying to push. No, Clover does not "deserve" to see the surface, are we forgetting that Clover went to the underground by choice? In the pacifist route, only Clover dies and that's by CHOICE, they CHOSE to sacrifice themselves. And that heroic choice eventually leads to the good ending for everyone in Undertale. In the genocide route, everyone dies and monsters are guaranteed to never have a happy ending, to never see the light of the sun and to have to mourn for the dozens killed, all so you and your selfish sense of justice can get your revenge. Seriously, like, what the fuck? How can you miss the point so badly? The point in which you draw the line is honestly insane.
@@aurum3747I don't think children should have to sacrifice themselves man idk. My stance is that if I am given the choice I will choose peace over violence, but death is not an option that will ever be on the table for me. The Genocide route in UT is pure player morbid curiosity, you don't have to kill anyone to return to the surface. UTY is die or kill. If you could choose to live a cool life with marlet or whatever id prefer that by a mile. But you can't. You kill or you die.
@@maskedkoopa6252 Yeah but that was Clovers choice You, the player had no choice in the matter because there's ultimately no canon player involvement in UT Yellow, it's heavily implied in the neutral route that it's JUST Clover and their choices and actions They chose to sacrifice themselves, it wasn't forced upon them, that was their brand of justice at the end of the route, it's what they wanted to do We didn't get a choice because this was Clovers, it always was
@@aurum3747Well they also chose to leave the underground. That also their brand of justice, also wasn't forced on them and was also what they wanted to do. And it is the outcome I find to be more narratively and emotionally satisfying.
@@maskedkoopa6252 The difference I was pointing out is that one choice is a heroic self sacrifice and leads to a happy ending to everyone And the other is quite deranged and leads to suffering of several and the corruption of their very being And that I find quite disturbing to see people encourage that second choice especially since it wasn't born of any extreme necessity
@@Moonlight-fh7yo yeah well after so many deaths caused by the environment but mostly monsters then you will build an distain of monster over countless resets.
You also can't tell me that UT Yellow didnt split the fandom into 3 chunks, people who think UT Yellow is cannon, people who don't, and people who don't really care that much (me).
5:52 I don't think he's talking about beating asgore. he says the souls are "Locked Away", and that he couldn't get asgore to show him them. It's not that he can't KILL asgore, It's just that killing him doesn't unlock the souls, and no other method works either.
I like a lot of your analysis, only thing I’d like to mention is that it’s not stated that Flowey couldn’t beat Asgore, just that that no matter how hard he tried, Flowey could never get Asgore to show him the human souls, which is what he wanted.
@@matttale7918 Thanks! So Flowey actually says at the end of the neutral route "Without you I NEVER would have gotten past him. But now with your help... He's DEAD!" It actually makes sense that he couldn't take on Asgore considering Toriel is able to stop Flowey with a single fireball. On the other hand though Flowey does claim to have killed everyone during his genocide run monologue and now that I think about it in the neutral run he may just mean that he couldn't get past Asgore without access to the save system so... yeah you're probably right actually, I still like to bully Flowey as much as possible though. ;P
Not much money. I don't like thinking You don't need Experience. I will cry, but I will not cry. God is pure and original. You can prevent light from interfering with your dreams. This is a boat. He is a Passive Knight.
tbh clover seems weird with their goal to find fallen children when toriel offers to stay they completly forget abt their quest and just live with goat mom but at the same time kill an underground worth of people to save kids thats already dead
@@unluckybean2800 idk abt that clover seems pretty unconvincible on genocide and theres no way torel could scare clover with asgore to convince them to stay knowing that on pacifist they literally give up their soul and the others i nthe underground doesnt look like they could convince clover to give their soul with all thosr fights and traps keep in mind that clover isnt very naive and innocent with their abusive enviroment and all also i didnt rly watched the video much and wrote that to share my opinion rather than to watch look it adhd stuff andi kinda forgot that i even wrote this
doesn't make sense to me how clover is a fascinating character if undertale yellow is only a fan game, and we don't even know his real story in the ACTUAL undertale
I actually recorded a playthrough of it last year but it'll probably be a pretty long time until I get around to editing and releasing it because there's a lot of Undertale content I want to make first.
My theory is that Clover's like 35 and only 150cm tall because they have dwarfism. It probably wouldn't be JUST children who'd fall into the Underground.
I don't think that's true because what adult would go to a mountain with monsters where they sell TOY guns to people? they really act like a child who wants to be a hero... just like Kanako... (sorry for English)
![Mastering Foreshadowing || DELTARUNE and UNDERTALE [Theory/Analysis]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T2IeUXG96_M/mqdefault.jpg)
![Mastering Foreshadowing || DELTARUNE and UNDERTALE [Theory/Analysis]](/img/tr.png)
"Named Clover after the healing item the yellow soul gives you during the omega flowey fight"
Oh boy, i cant wait to meet the other 5 humans! Note, Thumbs Up, Bandaid, E G G and Hope (Hope is a banger name though)
Note doesn't sound that bad... E G G on the other hand...
There can be a play of words on those things
I know there are fried eggs called Egg Benedict or Sunny Side Up(hello fellow qsmp enjoyers). So the name could be Benedict or Sunny
For the Note I think the obvious way to go is to name the person Melody. Bandaid can be play of words of "Patch", something similar to Pacha in New Emperor's Groove maybe?
Hope is a pretty name indeed.
Unfortunately, I can't think of anything for Thumbs Up soul. And this is not taking into consideration making the names gender-neutral
@@dead_xleb Everything is good except for the last part.
Sunny, Melody, Patch and Hope seem pretty gender-neutral to me.
@@farresalt4381 I said that because I see Benedict as very male name, while Melody is more a female name, but I see what you mean. I would agree that Patch, Hope and Sunny are neutral. It is the other two names what made me think otherwise. But I guess this is a matter of perspective, since for you Melody is neutral as well
@@dead_xleb*eats your namjng abilities*
So basically, Flowey did the world,s most longest weird route.
Pretty much
'
Yeah but, wouldn't that mean Flowey also created Clover's soul?
@@leanderbeth6682no. Flowey only guided Clover. He unintentionally made clover into no mercy clover due to either the player’s influence or clover hating the monsters due to flowey’s load. Making them forced to relive their deaths until they kill the monster.
Flowey... I remember you're weird routes
Flowey really dug his own grave on the genocide route
and it was so satisfying
I really wonder how Toby would handle Ch7's ending after we tortured basically every one
On both genocide routes i might add
he'd probably make it not really matter in the long run and have little to no impact on the story.. is what most people would say. but i say toby would just pull an undertale and make pretty much every choice matter in some way, but just make it goofy for no reason cause why not@@ACYosh
@@ACYoshthere's not a 100% guarantee that the later chapters have weird routes, but I hope
Clover the kind of kid to see that magic isnt possible and just go "bet"
same with kris deltarune LOL
magic is not possible for humans? how about my magic x-slashes?
@@dymaz_azurex slash is physical
@@dymaz_azure
"but kris, that just you cutting someone 2 times"
"It's magic"
"You just attacked twice"
"It is magic"
"But-"
"IT IS MAGIC"
@@ViniciusDiasissy Red buster and double heal then, they are indeed magic
also hypnosis on jevil figth
@@dymaz_azure hipponoses they all Spin, the red buster and dual heal its US Shining out soul to susie and ralsei
It's implied that Clover actually does remember resets at least vaguely, since repeating neutral runs makes Flowey bring up that Clover seems less scared during his little "I'm gonna torture you with Martlet's geno death because I hate you for that run" shtick.
when does flowey mention the geno route??? Also do you have any videos regarding that if you don't mind? I'm very interested if there are small differences after a geno run
@@IamDoru1 Flowey never mentions it and nothing seems to change after a geno route but the fact he seemed to perfectly recreate Martlet’s death in the geno route (which he would have been alive and around to see) to scare Clover during the neutral route fight in the fake Snowdin segment heavily implies that not only does Flowey remember the geno route but also that it canonically happened and Clover reset.
@@conquestanddeath4406that does make sense but, seeing your friends face get melted off does seem terrifying either way.
Clover is a character who desperately wants to be the protagonist of his own story, but in the end he is just a pawn of the much more powerful person who has been manipulating them the whole time, Flowey. From the start of UTY we are given the mindset that Clover is the protagonist, because we play as them. Without any dialog, without any environmental storytelling, just a fact of the game and how we play it, we are put in Clover's mindset. Which is why it is all the more surprising to watch it all crumble apart once you reach Neutral run Flowey.
Honestly i haven't looked at Clover from this angle before. It really does make his character more compelling, and it makes Pacifist ending so much more bittersweet, knowing that despite all the horrifying things Clover has been through, he still chose to be kind, befriend monsters along the way and ultimately give up his life for the future of monsterkind.
Undertale Yellow really deserves all the love it's getting. It's an incredible game.
The pacifist route is actually bad
@@gamer-1094it's not bad but clover decides to sacrifice themself for the monsters who tried to take advantage of them so yeah it's not as perfect as it looks
Nah, it makes the pacifist route worse. Martlet, Starlo and Ceroba let this depressed child who has been repeatedly tortured across hundreds of lives kill themselves so that they can have one more soul (which won't even do anything for them until the next human falls since seven are needed to break the barrier.)
I love UTY, but they REALLY dropped the ball with the TP ending.
@@leonardomittmann8919 yeah a depreseed child with abusive enviromernt(even before falling underground) who has died more times than any living creature can count gives their soul up yet they said:ok we respect your choice like its going out at night
even more stupid knowing ceroba didnt even question clovers sacrifice like cmon youve
accidentally killed your child and letting another one die in front of you
Actually i think its even more poetic, and its weird you havent seen it yourself.
This kid who has lasted through countless resets, dealing with tons of bs from Flowey's experiments to try and make the run where he gets what he wants, he finally gets to permanently rest. By being kind and making friends, Flowey was not allowed to intervene much, by helping other people, they hear him out to let him help himself. Flowey realises that by Clover sacrificing himself for monsters, it doesn't actively ruin his goal. His soul isnt being destroyed like it was when he kept dying, its being contained and kept with the others, Flowey's plan merely gets delayed, but its also more convenient, now he can try getting 6 souls and waiting for the 7th soul to come to him and become god, while Clover gets to peacefully rest for the first time in his life, with his eternal looping torture finally over, with the thought in his mind that his soul will go to a greater cause, his friends.
About the Vengence(What you called the Regicide route) Route to me it’s more messed up than snowgrave.
Still the killer here Clover like Noelle on snowgrave is manipulated into becoming a mass murderer. But instead of gaslighting about it being a dream Flowey gaslights Clover into giving into a Subconscious dustlust for the monsters due to how many times they’ve died before the player got control. This is more messed up as we make clover give in to it and not minipualte Noelle into thinking it’s a dream and getting stronger is worth it.
We the Player had the choice to back out into a semi sane neutral(Semi same neutral is just me referring to any aborted Kill them all routes in games like these)
Clover entered on pratically a suicide mission to get justice for the 5 fallen humans.
Flowey denies the best Outcome of Toriel preventing Clover from signing their own death warrant.
We the player along with Clover go on the rampage Flowey 1,000% wanted to happen.
Just that that god damn weed they didn’t expect their monster to turn on them.
Sweating nervously because I also died to the lasers in hotland-
Well at least you didn't get one-hit by them XD
Do you mean core? Because you can't die to the lasers in hotland
Let's not forget that alphys in one of the neutral routes said that she wishes she could have killed us when she had the chance, so maybe those lasers are what she meant. We know that she was around the time Clover was there so it's possible.
@@nope6792 alphys only says that in the route where you abort genocide in hotland. she hasnt expressed interest in killing the player besides that.
the only way i could think of for someone to die to this things, is if they where already on 1 hp.
How ironic that Flowey created the very thing that had the power to destroy him
Ironic
in the words of emperor Palpatine have you heard the story of Flowey the wise so powerful, he could even stop others from dying until his apprentice strike him down. Ironic he could stop from dying, but he could not save himself.
To be fair Alphys turns the lasers off if your HP gets low also they usually had rules to avoid injury when Frisk encountered them, meanwhile the ones in Flowey's flashback seem to instakill regardless.
What's also interesting is a line of dialogue after the Flowey fight that can happen any time after you beat him for the fourth time and you get a specific fun value saying
"... You know? It's strange.
Something's off here.
We're alone in my mind right now.
It's clear that we're alone, right?
Then why I can't shake it...
Only since you showed up has it been this way.
...
I have to reset again.
I have to reset until I find the right path.
Until you make the right choices.
Until it... ", It could be in reference to the player perhaps having a hand in guiding Clover for them to reach new outcomes considering the neutral route implies Clover would always managed to get back to the top of the UG apartments and talk to Martlet, and effectively be a repeat of Toriel leading Clover to stay with her. So perhaps us the player had some hand in helping Clover reach True pacifist and Regicide (though him mentioning how it's been something he's always felt since Clover arrived would probably disprove that something being us since we weren't there with clover when they initially fell into the underground, so my only real other guess could be maybe Chara somehow, though there's not a lot to really prove anything)
I think that fun event is referring to the player, and you can definitely interpret this whole thing as Clover gets better because the player remembers. It's kinda like how things in Undertale can be seen in two different ways, in universe the save system is there because of Determination but out of universe we know it's there because it's a basic game mechanic. I think Clover also has this in universe reason for them getting better each run along with the out of universe explanation that is simply the player existing.
We can say it like this too imo:
We (the player) basically act like the subconsciousness of clover inside the game world. But outside, we are the player; and flowey suspects it.@@Grim-c8n
Maybe Chara hung around every human that fell into the underground.
I absolutely adore this video
It really shows why the RESET is described as "the power of playing god" in UT
The comparison with the weird route is my favorite part of the video
I love this view of Clover so much, it gives them even more character than they already had, and adds perspective to what it'd be like to be trapped in a time loop by a Demonic Flower.
It even gives an in-universe reason for Clover to do a No Mercy route beyond the usual meta stuff, which is quite fascinating.
The Yellow team did such a phenomenal job with the game, its world and the characters in it.
I honestly think it would fit perfectly well in canon if it weren't for some of the timeline inconsistencies. (Mostly related to the Dunes, Steamworks, Core, Gaster and of course Flowey as everyone just LOVES to bring up ad nauseum.)
Of course, it's a fangame so it won't ever be canon.
Regardless, I think Yellows own unique story compliments UT's world exceptionally well. (Which is what the team was going for, so I'd say it was a huge success on their part.)
"This won't be canon" and then you remember toby Twitter exists.
@@Moustafadrawsdid he say is canon?, or you are just saying it might become canon?.
I mean, the inconsistencies in the timeline could be explained away as reset weirdness via Flowey.
@@things-z8oHe said everything is canon in the undertale multiverse.
@@TadrianWilbourn not sure if he said that, but even if he said, then that only means AUs, and undertel yellow is a prequel not an AU.
I think that the reason Flowey couldn't get pass Asgore is not because he couldn't kill him, its because he needs a human to beat him. Flowey in his genocide monolog in new home suggests now matter how hard he tries Asgore would never show him the souls but believes that Asgore would show Chara the souls.
Flowey needs a human to meet Asgore so that he would reveal the souls and he would probably hide them again if he sees Flowey which is why he needs a human to beat him.
exactly flowey got a lotta LV so im pretty sure that he can overpower asgores 80 ATK 80 DEF the problem is with souls themselfs
If that were the case, Flowey would have definitely took action in the flawed pacifist route (which he didn’t because he was probably too petrified) while Clover was fighting him.
@@AuthenticLeZ flowey prob thought clover would handle asgore the mystery is why didnt flowey revived clover and let asgore take their soul is it cus flowey decided to wait
the same goes to undertale flowey couldve kill asgore but let frisk fight him instead of finishing asgore himself
Flowey says after Asgore battle that without Frisk they could never beat them.
Only after getting that much he could finish him off.
Here's an idea... what if Frisk started out like clover too, and by the time we got involved they already were conditioned enough to wake up before Toriel...
Maybe Flowey Kept ambushing them while we were busy picking a name till Frisk wakes up early and Flowey gives up on the scare tactics and tries a different strategy...
To be fair. Flowey is literally a child who can't grow up.
God of Hyperdeath is an OC a kid would make anyways, lol.
yeah, permanent edgy phase
@@XD-yn6hbFunny because that's referenced as a joke in Deltarune.
like the undertale fandom?
@@leedlelel2373 That's a really broad strokes of the worst of them don't you think?
always knew there was something wrong when clover was able to kill enemies with a toy gun...
Hey
It's nerf or nothin
Bro frisk can literally kill people with a stick and a toy knife
@@Sandstheskeleton it was a joke but ok lol
@@Sandstheskeleton Frisk can kill people by punching them .
@@JcoleMc just like... Irl???
im a huge huge fan of clover/floweys dynamic in uty and this video just makes it so much more worse i love it
For the first part, keep in mind he's still technically a child... He died and was resurrected into a flower, so he probably kept his childish mentality, with psychopathic issues as well.
5:20 actually, he did kill Asgore he says so to us on a genocide route.
And don’t bring him neutral because he was just trying to make us guilty and edgy.
In geno he’s filling out his whole heart to his best friend. He wouldn’t lie about the killing everybody in underground including sans . “ he caused my fair share of resets” implied that he still won, but he just was very difficult .
it’s made clear on Genocide that flower does not need to kill asgore but he needs him to show him the human souls so he can swoop in and take them . “ i’ve tried hundreds of way to get him to show me them. but he just won’t Chara. I know he’ll do it for you”
And logically speaking, it would make sense, because you can just kill him in his sleep .
ngl i really loved it when clover immediately whipped out his gun and shot Axis, i just find it very badass honestly
Something i like about undertale yellow is that the no mercy route isn´t looked like "oh this kid is evil for no reason" like it was in undertale it has a huge reason, revenge, justice to the missing/dead children who unfornately fall in the underground, let them rest in peace and let clover not only escape alive, but end the cycle flowey forces him to be in making it seem like, is only fair
Flowey could definitely kill Asgore in a 1v1, that was never the problem. The problem was that Flowey needed Asgore to reveal the SOULs.
I disagree, Flowey's whole shtick was always doing betrayal/ off guard kills. And even if he vaguely knew the location of souls, he needs Asgore to show it to him, maybe because there is a specific way to summon/ get them from wherever they're stored that only Asgore knows. I mean measures like that would be taken, considering any monster could stroll up to Asgore's castle and attempt to steal them
@IamDoru1 I have a theory on that it’s possible Assgore soul being close could be necessary for them The soul containers to be unlocked
After all flower only struck on the pacifist route after The king unlocked the canisters containing the souls, and everyone was distracted it’s possible that flower knows exactly where they are, but the king has to unlock them for him to access them
@@MikeJoe-jy5kp true
Actually... no. In the neutral rote of undertale, Flowey specifically says that "without frisk's help he would never be able to pass as asgore"
I'm kinda surprised you didn't go over the fact that WE are helping clover, not just clover remembering bits and pieces
To my knowledge the player (as in us) isn’t ever referred to explicitly or implicitly in this game.
A breath of fresh air in this kind of videos
@@AGGSab There's only one fourth wall break and its during the nuetral boss battle with flowey, where he will look from Clover to us, and tell us the player that we should choose either the pacifist or vengeance route.
'It's a one deer stampede, and it is charging straight at me!'
- The red soul's last thoughts after pulling an Undertale Yellow Flowey, maybe.
The sheer implications of this! Do you know what this could mean?!?
If clover does enough regicide routes they might have a chance to actually gain a tiny bit of LV from the get-go, due to that subconscious thing you talked about, so in theory with enough built-up LV could clover somehow get enough determination to somehow save ceroba's daughter?
Personally I'm working on a little bit of a story/fan game concept within my own mind, where frisk, after all the runs everyone has done, on the very anniversary of Undertale after a neutral run and after beating flowey, instead of the souls just straight up deleting him with that rainbow-y thing they do, they fly out to frisk, surrounding them, something else happens in-between but I haven't thought that far ahead yet, then with nothing but pure will, they split their soul into three, representing the three possible runs...
Genocide is black on the inside, representative of the players who have massacred the entirety of the underground
Neutral, just red for now, simply neutral, the most down to earth and realistic one...
Pacifist, with an almost golden glistening effect being present, it is a glowing red, representative of those who have saved everyone and everything.
Idk what to do from there but I'll keep working on this, something else I thought of was that frisk goes back in time to save the other humans before their death or something like that, slowly but surely they encounter all the other humans, clover would be first, alll until they encounter chara...
I may include the plot of the geno, neutral and pacifist variants of frisk going back in time as well, trying to do their own thing, the Geno soul is basically a hatred fueled chara, maybe by killing the neutral or pacifist soul it kills off all of them? Maybe near the end when the pacifist one is trying ti save chara the genocide one wants nothing to do with that, because it is also chara?
Idk my train of thought is all messed up rn, still, just an idea.
I am unable to word everything I'm feeling but I absolutely LOVE this concept man! If you ever write & publish it to AO3 or smth lemme know please so I can read it the second I can :D (no pressure of course, I understand how scary it can be to publish a fic)
this got me intrigued
Honestly, Im not sure why, but I dont seem to get it. The reason why Clover picked slightly different options in timelines is because of the hundrends if not BILLIONS of ways Clover could have thought about what to do, but the reason why Clover stuck to the same route of staying with Toriel is because of their inherent characteristics.
The reason why Clover is so "competent" is because of us. The player. We know, we remember. And Flowey sees this and comments on this. But obviously, Clover is under OUR control, so I think if it wasn't for us, Clover would have still been stuck in the same loop over and over.
But your theory also sounds plausible! If we exclude the player obviously, so good job! (So the comparison of Clover and Noelle was sooo clever omg)
Genocide Yellow is one of the coolest Ut related narratives tbh.
I saw Clover living with Toriel as him seeing monsters as friendly, I mainly saw that because he either Genocides seeing them as enemies no matter what or spares them all, or judges them in neutral.
I still reference this video a lot when I talk about Clover's personality, stellar job! The choice of background music, especially when going more in depth about his subconscious side, is great too. Thank you for making this.
Genocide Clover has to be my favorite. I really like how this game has a reason for all the killings instead of doing it for fun. It’s one of the first fangames to have a genocide route be more in the gray area than being completely evil. And someone said the Clover vs Martlet fight felt like a clash of ideals than a “good vs evil” fight. (The good and bad depending on who you side with.) but it can be seen both ways.
I don't see it that way. Personally, I see the No Mercy route as a perversion of justice. "Justice" as just death and violence. Choosing to ignore entirely the context and history of a situation, to selfishly proclaim oneself as a righteous avenger and feel entirely justified in meteing out punishment. It's a selfish perspective of justice that is in reality a tool of domination, and is very convenient; since it requires literally no critical thought, no introspection, no recognition of motive or history.
It feels good though, doesn't it? Giving people what they *deserve*. Not having to engage with the other party entirely, merely reducing them to a thing to make suffer. Such a dangerous impulse, especially when it happens in contexts of generational inter-societal grievances.
Asgore was wrong to punish all of humanity for what happened to Asriel. If that's true, then Clover is wrong to act similarly.
@@DreamersOfReality Pacifist wasn't any better, as Clover just signs the next human life away, letting someone get murdered isn't justice, and letting Asgore destroy humanity also makes Clover look bad. The REAL justice would have been Clover bringing everyone to talk to Asgore to see both sides of the story, but the game just had to rush the ending to kill Clover in both endings. I feel like the game needing Clover to die is what brought it down, if they made more non-canon endings, the game might've had more satisfying endings. I'm not really gonna argue on genocide either, it's just whatever the person thinks of it, and I can't change that.
YES, as soon as i saw all the endings i was thinking about All This and you put it into much better words than i ever could! clover being able to subconsciously remember resets is such an interesting way of diagetically explaining the player's control over them; in undertale (normal) frisk's actions made sense because they remember everything; they navigate the underground so expertly because they've done it before, they kill everyone because they're bored with the same ending over and over. they're basically just an extension of the player. the fact that you can still explain all those things for a character that CAN'T remember everything is Fascinating.
also i got jumpscared by the In Stars and Time music lmao. great choice given the topic of the video ;)
I love how Undertale yellow was so good it’s basically canon now.
It contradicts undertale so fucking much but okay whatever.
@ing15 contradicts, but I don't think that "so fucking much". I thought the only contradictable things were the souls and Flowey and still as I see these aren't big issues to the original lore and can be explained
Can you list reasons please?
@@bl00d1k37Simple, they dislike the game.
Yeah, the only huge contradiction is that as far as I know, Flowey was made with the DT from all 6 human souls before Frisk, so he shouldn’t exist at the same time Clover is alive.
@@halyoalex8942 Where does they say that? As far as I remember, it only said that Alphys had used human soul's determination to inject into monsters.
I don't think she ever mentioned the amount of souls used.
I saw the 3 ending of yellow as mirroring the original undertales 3 ish ending. In pacifist clover loses his soul but the player has the option to reset with help from flowiy.
The neutral rought has a flowey boss fight. The genocide rough is the only way for clover to see the surface again.
I’m pretty sure Flowey attacks Frisk immediately because of their save and load powers which Clover didn’t have without Flowey, and because Frisk’s DETERMINATION was more than Flowey’s
Flowey is the Homura to Clover’s Madoka
I still feel Flowey fits better than Noelle, because at the end of the Regicide run of UT Yellow, Flowey tries to save over Clover, but it eventually fails, this seems to go with the Neutral run of Undertale, as so far, the player had been in control, and once Flowey absorbs the souls, we try to save over him, and fail, showing Flowey has surpassed us in power, it feels like Clover's POV in the end of the Regicide run works perfectly with Flowey's POV at the end of neutral, which is why Flowey is still a better candidate than Noelle.
Frisk or the Player beating Asgore is due to him not wanting to FIGHT as hard and all the doubts he had pile up over time making him slowly hate what he is doing. When he sees Frisk/Player, Asgore is surprised and steps back. He feels the sins of killing 6 children and trying to start a war after loosing all the family he had. He was FIGHTing nowhere near 100% which is why beating him was possible or as easily as we had. Flowey likely didn't have such a benefit for FIGHTing Asgore due to Flowey wanting to steal the souls and Asgore would still want to protect them since he had an idea of how powerful they would be and not wanting hope to be lost.
Quick Theory:
Flowey couldn't have been around during Integrity's life. They seem to be the one before Clover.
During the attack on Kanako and Dalv, Chujin hadn't begun work on Axis. Ceroba implies that Asgore was still searching for a new scientist before Axis 8.
Flowey was "born" during Alphys' DT experiments as the Royal Scientist.
I doubt Monsters would have more Determination than any human.
But that brings another question: when did saving start? It doesn't seem like Chara could save, as they seem to react to their time Underground as if it was their first. Did they never get to try since they fused with Asriel before ever dying?
alt title: Clover girlbosses for 14 minutes
True and epic position
Lore of why clover is now one of the most fascinating characters in Undertale momentum 100
Agree
Your point saying “flowery made Undertale yellow” made realise, yellow could obviously be referring to clover’s soul but it could also be referring to flowey who is yellow, pretty obvious now that I think about it
well, they are both the main character arguably. It’s their story together and not just one or the other.
I hear most people call it the revenge route because you're avenging all the humans that died to monsters by wiping them all out
Another thing I always found to be quite sad is that Flowey basically caused Clovers death by not leaving them alone
Clover basically had their happy ending on the first try and Flowey took that away for the chance to get the souls and even when Flowey gave up and just let Clover die on pacifist they don't just reset and let Clover be with Toriel
Man, this video really cemented to me what me made truly adore this game after the having done the neutral route. It was genuinely so cool and refreshing to see a UT fan-work actually tackle what it was like to be at the receiving end of the timeline manipulations and not just from Sans but someone who was pawn to said timeline-manipulating being, aka Flowey. As another commenter here pointed out as well, it makes it all the more sweet in the pacifist ending that, even after all the horrible trauma Clover endured there, they still overcome their prejudices and befriend and even help monsters.
UTY overall really showed how much golden untapped potential there was in exploring the timeline pre-UT and especially from the previous humans perspective. I hope that the Undertale Blues and Purples will give us a unique and wonderful compliment to UT’s story like this one did.
Damn, what an analysis! I'm shocked, it's so good.
I wish i had someone in my life to share those kind of gems to.
So you mean to say rather then the player being the puppetmaster. Flowey is controlling the strings to Clover. Interesting take on it honestly I like it
This is based
It's weird to say the evil route in an ut fangame is actually justified too, to an extent
Maybe a twisted justification anyways
legalistic
"Clover is all bark and no bite"
The genocide route:
Clover: let’s change that
2:23 I think that the reason he attacks you immediately isn't because he's gotten impatient. It's because you've taken away his ability to save and load with your own determination, so he wanted to kill you before you manage to save your progress.
Well, we never really beat Asgore, every time we fought him, he was either holding back, got stabbed in the back, or was just depressed and let us kill him, we never saw his true abilities, he is the strongest monster for a reason.
Tbf clover excuse to dying too. Random encounters and lasers in the Hotland are that a lot of the monsters were a lot more violet or serious at that time after all when frisk fell down it was confirmed that was a massive gap in between when clover fell and when frisk fell
Meaning alphys had the lasers turned up to the max and possibly an actual strong snow monster attacked clover with the spikes
even if Clover got passed, the enemy sans probably would've instantly killed him where he stood
6:16 wasn't that because he WANTED you to erase his memories?
Oh I never thought of that! Well when you do a True Reset all the characters dialogue about you seeming familiar reverts back to normal, meaning it has a stronger effect on characters other than Flowey. The True Reset also happens when you complete a genocide run and Flowey is just straight up dead at that point so I don't think he'd have any control over what happens to his memories. To be honest though I never really put much thought into how the true reset really works, I just thought of it as more of a game mechanic. Maybe it's like what happens to Clover at the end of the regicide route, in true pacifist and genocide your Determination becomes so strong that it makes your reset stronger. Or maybe it is just a game mechanic idk.
@darestep7844 I mean there is a case to be made for both, it could be that a true reset can only occur if Frisk leaves the underground since it isn't confirmed whether Frisk made it out or not in a neutral run since they didn't have a monster soul to cross the barrier with. On the other hand though, it could just be a game mechanic since the player is confirmed to exist in Undertale's story in the legends of localisation book.
"Flowey why did you create that kid?"
-the soul of integrity
4:45 You try to survive at Lv 1 with only 20 Hp
really love this analysis. Theres truly a lot to unpack in this game. thank you for doing it justice ! ;)
I was thinking the thing flowey was saying about clover remembering things was supposed to be about the existence of the player as an entity that exists, possibly. Your interpretation is more interesting though.
Vengeance/Regicide Clover and Snowgrave Noelle even have a lot of dialogue similarities
^’I’m getting stronger.
*(Need to find an exit.)
^Proceed.
*(Through those doors.)
^It looks like another enemy. Should I freeze them?
*(An enemy is nearby. No loose ends.)
^Watch what happens when I cast a spell I don’t know!
*(Let justice be done.)
^Isn’t that the wrong way...?
*(The other way.)
^(Noelle, no, don’t think that! It’s horrible...)
*(Not of interest.)
^I think, I’m going to go home.
*(The end lies beyond.)
I've never really understood why Flowey would have more determination than Clover, you mean to tell me that a flower that was injected with a sample of it has more than a human who produces large amounts of the stuff.
honestly never really made sense to me either
Its because he's already killed people before, but then he resets the world
Flowey's the biggest continuity hole in UtY, but UtY was started in 2016 when the fanbase didn't know nearly as much about Undertale lore. By the time it came out the fanbase knew a lot more, but Flowey was so central to UtY that fixing those continuity holes would basically need them to remake the game entirely.
It's absolutely the best fangame I've ever played, of any franchise, but it's not without flaws!
I think when Flowey was injected with Determination it put him on the same level as a human. He's basically motivated by his extreme trauma which is a strong source of Determination. In Undertale's Genocide route Flowey also reveals that he was expecting to still have control over the save system when Frisk entered the underground since he tried to reload after he failed to take Frisk's soul. "And when I tried to load my SAVE file... It didn't work. Chara... Your DETERMINATION... Somehow, it's even greater than mine!" I think Chara has a large amount of Determination even for human standards. If the previous fallen humans had a similar amount of Determination they would have never given up, but they had to at some point for their souls to be captured. Chara and Asriel are just built different.
Interestingly enough, the Legends of Localization book about translating Undertale to Japanese makes it clear that it's /The Player's/ determination that is used to save and load, not their own; at least until the final fight in Pacifist. Which makes sense to me, as a player dying is merely an inconvenience for us, but all the former fallen children wouldn't have that degree of separation.
Imagine if every time you died in Undertale you had to feel and remember the impossible agony of burning to death, getting impaled, freezing to death, getting crushed, bludgeoned, electrocuted, and all sorts of other ways monsters attack. The game would have been impossible to finish for 99.9% of people, and they all would have given up. That's what all the former children had to go through. Even if they had more determination then Flowey, they'd quickly give up just to stop the pain.
Flowey, the only other character who used saving and loading regularly is /a flower/, which don't feel pain like most living beings do; I imagine that's no coincidence.
Really good video! I appreciate the use of Katana Zero music :)
never thought of it like that. good video
Bit off topic but Clover really cooked the underground with a Nerf gun 😂
It's nerf or nothin'.
Challenge run defeating zenith with only Nerf
Makes you wonder what the other humans went through down in the underground
This makes the whole game so sad, as even after suffering for an infinite amounts of time he still chose to be the hero.
True
Or the anti hero(genocide/vengeance route)
Holy crap, dude, your RUclips channel has kinda blown up a little bit. Nice!
Thanks! :)
14:25 bro this animation was so weird. marlet was like: AHHHH!
This is actually brilliant. I love this interpretation!
"He couldn't even beat Asgore, he's so pathetic!" He's a flower, Grim.
Flowey: I have becomed undertale yellow
the isat ost got me fr
Fun fact: if you spell ebott backwards, it sounds similar to toby
When clover died in pacifist I literally cried
Awesome video! The Katana ZERO soundtrack was a good choice!
what ıf flowey also manipulated the other 5, or maybe just 1? I don't know but what I do know is that when frısk falls they break the cycle, and flowey has went his climax and went fully insane to the point they just go straight into wanting to kill frısk, they could have done this from the beginning
i still cant understand how ceroba can encourage childrens suicide after serum from a human soul is EXACTLY what killed her child
one dies from a human souls the other one without
I don’t think she encouraged their death, I think she just accepted the fact that there was “no other choice”
4:10 i have no idea why but i lost my shit to this for an off topic joke 💀
30 seconds in and i was already hooked, katana zero soundtrack does things to me lmao
15:00 doesn’t that mean… The yellow in Undertale yellow doesn’t mean for the yellow soul… BUT FLOWEYS PETTELS?!
Wait for ut green, blue , orange,cyan and purple to come out. They will say the same thing
Nice video!!
I do wonder something though, what about when Flowey dies in near end of the vengance route? Could it be like a he unexpected it? I wonder.
Then again, before Clover killed him, he did say that "I know what happens after this" which I wonder what that implies too? Maybe that also supports what you said about Flowey doing the weird route?
Again, very interesting and great video!
Wish this game is canon
Agreed
This video is fire
This is a great video, but you gotta remember the player
The ending of no mercy was one of the most viscerally satisfying moments I have ever experienced in a video game. UT Yellow successfully made me enjoy a kill everything route where UT and DR could not, purely because the ends it provides are simply, I don't know, better I guess. I think Clover deserves to see the surface, and none of the monsters are as undisputably unassailable as Papyrus or Monster kid. While I don't actively root for their demise, I also don't care if they have to die for Clover to reach the surface. To me the fate of one child outweighs the lives of those would would attack it, no matter how many. The closest to a victim we get is AXIS, but at the end of the day that's not a victim we can use to attack the morality of the route. AXIS does what he does for lack of other options, as do we do what we do for lack of better options. UT yellow's greatness to me is in posing the question of where you draw the line in terms of self defense by truly leaving you with no alternative, and by making the 'bad' route of the game offer an arguably better outcome than the 'good' or 'neutral'. For me I really had no choice but to admit that to me the ends justify the means. And not in a strawman way where you do awful shit under the pretense that it'll work out. In a literal sense clover's survival relies on the deaths of those that attack them.
What the fuck dude
Like seriously, what the fuck.
Deltarune and Undertale genocide routes aren't ejoyable because they're not MEANT to be, they were designed to be bad. To make you FEEL bad, because that's the world view and lesson the game is trying to push.
No, Clover does not "deserve" to see the surface, are we forgetting that Clover went to the underground by choice?
In the pacifist route, only Clover dies and that's by CHOICE, they CHOSE to sacrifice themselves. And that heroic choice eventually leads to the good ending for everyone in Undertale.
In the genocide route, everyone dies and monsters are guaranteed to never have a happy ending, to never see the light of the sun and to have to mourn for the dozens killed, all so you and your selfish sense of justice can get your revenge.
Seriously, like, what the fuck? How can you miss the point so badly? The point in which you draw the line is honestly insane.
@@aurum3747I don't think children should have to sacrifice themselves man idk. My stance is that if I am given the choice I will choose peace over violence, but death is not an option that will ever be on the table for me. The Genocide route in UT is pure player morbid curiosity, you don't have to kill anyone to return to the surface. UTY is die or kill. If you could choose to live a cool life with marlet or whatever id prefer that by a mile. But you can't. You kill or you die.
@@maskedkoopa6252 Yeah but that was Clovers choice
You, the player had no choice in the matter because there's ultimately no canon player involvement in UT Yellow, it's heavily implied in the neutral route that it's JUST Clover and their choices and actions
They chose to sacrifice themselves, it wasn't forced upon them, that was their brand of justice at the end of the route, it's what they wanted to do
We didn't get a choice because this was Clovers, it always was
@@aurum3747Well they also chose to leave the underground. That also their brand of justice, also wasn't forced on them and was also what they wanted to do. And it is the outcome I find to be more narratively and emotionally satisfying.
@@maskedkoopa6252 The difference I was pointing out is that one choice is a heroic self sacrifice and leads to a happy ending to everyone
And the other is quite deranged and leads to suffering of several and the corruption of their very being
And that I find quite disturbing to see people encourage that second choice especially since it wasn't born of any extreme necessity
So basically, in my opinion, flowey created a violent killing machine or a monster
@@Moonlight-fh7yo yeah well after so many deaths caused by the environment but mostly monsters then you will build an distain of monster over countless resets.
You can't tell me they didnt add Marlet last minute to reference the snowgrave route
You also can't tell me that UT Yellow didnt split the fandom into 3 chunks, people who think UT Yellow is cannon, people who don't, and people who don't really care that much (me).
5:52 I don't think he's talking about beating asgore. he says the souls are "Locked Away", and that he couldn't get asgore to show him them. It's not that he can't KILL asgore, It's just that killing him doesn't unlock the souls, and no other method works either.
I like a lot of your analysis, only thing I’d like to mention is that it’s not stated that Flowey couldn’t beat Asgore, just that that no matter how hard he tried, Flowey could never get Asgore to show him the human souls, which is what he wanted.
@@matttale7918 Thanks! So Flowey actually says at the end of the neutral route "Without you I NEVER would have gotten past him. But now with your help... He's DEAD!" It actually makes sense that he couldn't take on Asgore considering Toriel is able to stop Flowey with a single fireball. On the other hand though Flowey does claim to have killed everyone during his genocide run monologue and now that I think about it in the neutral run he may just mean that he couldn't get past Asgore without access to the save system so... yeah you're probably right actually, I still like to bully Flowey as much as possible though. ;P
@@Grim-c8n bullying soulless flower children is indeed a great pastime to have 😂
Not much money. I don't like thinking You don't need Experience. I will cry, but I will not cry. God is pure and original. You can prevent light from interfering with your dreams. This is a boat. He is a Passive Knight.
My face's been like Clover's the whole time.
'-'
tbh clover seems weird with their goal to find fallen children when toriel offers to stay they completly forget abt their quest and just live with goat mom but at the same time kill an underground worth of people to save kids thats already dead
@@unluckybean2800 idk abt that clover seems pretty unconvincible on genocide and theres no way torel could scare clover with asgore to convince them to stay knowing that on pacifist they literally give up their soul and the others i nthe underground doesnt look like they could convince clover to give their soul with all thosr fights and traps keep in mind that clover isnt very naive and innocent with their abusive enviroment and all
also i didnt rly watched the video much and wrote that to share my opinion rather than to watch
look it adhd stuff andi kinda forgot that i even wrote this
remember clovers justice is personalised
@@unluckybean2800 i dunno i think it was said that clover doesnt remember resets
This is Matpat level stuff, gg
The title said Clover, make me think that new update appear in Undertale so we have new characters 😅
doesn't make sense to me how clover is a fascinating character if undertale yellow is only a fan game, and we don't even know his real story in the ACTUAL undertale
I noticed the In Stars and Time music, would you ever do a video about that game?
I actually recorded a playthrough of it last year but it'll probably be a pretty long time until I get around to editing and releasing it because there's a lot of Undertale content I want to make first.
My theory is that Clover's like 35 and only 150cm tall because they have dwarfism. It probably wouldn't be JUST children who'd fall into the Underground.
I don't think that's true because what adult would go to a mountain with monsters where they sell TOY guns to people? they really act like a child who wants to be a hero... just like Kanako...
(sorry for English)
Clover does not act like an adult, it is never said that he is an adult (even in the game itself) you know?
Well you can rumble on about it for 16 minutes or simply show Flowey's speech to himself on true pacifist epilogue
Love the vid
Also me after realizing UTY is fan made: 😳