Do NOTHING: the key to OW2 Tank
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2023
- Sometimes nothing is better than something. As a tank in Overwatch 2, it's often easy to feel like you ALWAYS need to be doing something. Diving, shooting, or shielding, but that often puts a burden on your supports with no real reward. Sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing, and Coach Spilo breaks down exactly how and why.
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Thanks for watching! 
Игры
spilo's the kinda guy to put eggs in his cereal
????
bro thinks hes an egg
Dude 😂
My brain no longer functions WHAT IS THIS COMMENT WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Thanks for this. I think this explains why I've had a 60% winrate on Ram and gone from low to high gold casually this season. His playstyle kind of forces you into this play style, chilling with shield, getting full health and then going Nemesis and applying big pressure. Need to apply this thinking to all tanks.
To take it to the next level, don’t chill with shield. Use the downtime to scout the enemies, then when you want to go put your shield right in front of the enemy. Put your vortex behind them, and go to pound town with nemesis.
This way you are shielded whilst closing the gap, vortex prevents them from escaping and you can get insane value.
@@iQuack to add to this, depending on the situation it can be better to put your shield behind the enemy you're going for to block the healing they're getting from their supports. if you're just brawling the tank to hold space without really expecting to kill anything then it's probably better to just use the shield for protection like you mentioned, but if you want to for example punish an overextended squishy then putting the shield between them and their backline is probably better to make sure their supports aren't outhealing your damage.
This is something that I do a LOT (lol) when playing genji on defense. If we reach an advantageous "stalemate" position and my job is to simply mark an opponent so that they can't get any meaningful angles that would break our defense, I want to afk as much as possible so that I have the resources available when I need them (my target tries to push up in an attempt to increase their value and so they end up in a position that I can punish). If I instead decided to peek and got poked out, I might not be able to hold my ground anymore or I won't have the resources required to take a good duel, thus giving up the angle and our advantage. It's essentially a "zugzwang" situation, but since this isn't chess I'm not forced to make a move, which means that I can keep my optimal position until my target forces me to react =)
I actually kind of learned this playing Doom the other day. I ended up getting a Support Duo that was Bap and Mercy. The Mercy only pocketed the Bap all game and the Bap only did DPS. So... Since I had literally no healing, I had to really think about my engagements and how I was going to get out to the nearest Mega Health Pack after I attempted whatever I was going for. As annoying as that match was at the time. I got a lot better just by that one match because I learned how to take less damage and not have to be baby sat by doing exactly this. I was doing nothing more that game but, when I was doing nothing I was really scouting and planning when and what I would do.
Now we still lost of course because with no healing, our room for error was 0. But I was shocked at how close we came to winning after adapting around no healing at all.
This is a really good lesson to learn! Just remember that you can and should adjust in the other direction when you are getting more resources. It’s not just “learn to play independently”, it’s “learn to play with the resources you have”.
I’ve had a lot of players in my games who seem so unaccustomed to getting support, they run away from 2v1s or give up positioning really easily when they’re getting pocketed. I think that can be just as bad as always yeeting yourself in and demanding every resource your team has, because failing to take/hold positions or secure kills that you had the resources to do leads to a disadvantageous position a little while later, where those resources are going to have to be spent for poor value.
@@ossifiedtoad798 yeah, I have to remind myself of this. Its what makes the game so complicated
Ball is the best tank for those situations unless the enemy is running full stuns, but even then, you can get plenty of value just baiting out cooldowns.
@@cagxplays9602 Yeah, I just don't enjoy swapping characters. I want to play the character I want to play and that is that. Which honestly is the problem with Overwatch. I feel most people feel the way I do but swap anyways and it creates a miserable experience.
@@WoWbloodcrazy Fr, I can't stand people who are like "ree why don't you just swap to (insert character here). Like because I'm here for fun and swapping to someone I didn't want to play isn't fun. All characters should be viable, even if at a disadvantage, yet some are just hard gate kept by very specific counters that only pop out because people can counter swap. Remove counter swapping and this solves atleast 50% of the problem.
Hah sometimes it feels like the matrix with patterns popping up everywhere.
In strength training there's a concept called super compensation: when you train you burn resources (muscle) after a good training you are actually a lot weaker (low point on your graph) > now you rest and start to regenerate > as the body doesn't like to not be able to cope with the load it builds muscle to get stronger > at the end of the resting period (best case peak on your graph) you train again and start the upwards trend getting stronger.
Here's the catch: start training again to early and the trend of the graph declines. You'll get weaker and weaker by training a lot.
Never thought about how that's comparable to an Overwatch game until now mapping it to the resources and push forward / pull back character of the game. Thx for the red pill 😉
Eb and flow, aggression comes in cycles: this is overwatch essentially but people don’t actively think about it like this - and not just for tanks. Good vid 👍
Spilo the kinda guy to eat his cereal egg free 😤
I watched an A10 video recently where he essentially said the same thing when playing DVA. Doing nothing allowed him, often times to dive someone when they felt too comfortable after not having seen the tank. Thanks for explaining a bit more in depth! I feel like I can start trying to apply this a bit more in my DVA games. :)
well a10 is an airhead because he preaches that you lose games because you are the only constant in your matches, which simply isn't true in a 5v5 team game. Thats advice that works in competitive Quake 1 TDM, not overwatch. If you are playing perfectly your teams will still find a way to throw your game for you, that's just reality. Blaming yourself for that is just mental gymnastics and doublethink. A10 misrepresents the other reasons why people lose games as well. Hes just a bag of wind that I have no idea how he has ever coached any overwatch player. And he smurfs in order to do unranked to gm which is just a meme anyway because it's practically matchmaking and emotional rng whether or not you win 20 games in a row.
@@youtuberobbedmeofmyname A10 doesn’t say you’re the only reason this game is lost. He’s saying your own improvement is the only thing you can control. And blaming other ppl isn’t productive in winning games. And also even if unranked to GM is pure RNG, he’s still teaching and showing what it’s like to play at every rank and what to do to win
@@youtuberobbedmeofmyname Kinda facts, sometimes your L's are because of a teammate that feeds so hard they solve world hunger,.
BUT if you can like somehow trick yourself into taking ownership of that game (which "technically" is always true, no player can achieve truly perfect play), helps immensely with your mental.
Shifting your thinking from "This guy is so dogshit why is he in my game?" (you're right, but that's not helping you improve)
TO
"Man, what could I have done better, that L's on me" Might be 100% wrong, but allows you to:
A) Mentally reset by going over your OWN gameplay, not someone elses
B) Makes you focus on IMPROVING, rather than WINNING.
Unranked to GMs are never going to mirror ranked play, thats a fact, but the mindset of YOU always being responsible for your losses (even when it isn't) and taking action to improve yourself will eventually win you more games, because if you are better/improving, you will climb your rank regardless of matchmaking bullshit EVENTUALLY (law of averages and all that)
Good luck on your ranked games comrade o7
I think there is a positive feedback loop (positive like self-worsening, not positive like good) that tank players get into by always trying to be active. You mentioned that being a leech on the supports means they aren’t paying attention to their on survivability or taking their own duels, but it also means the DPS aren’t getting any help. Since DPS on the whole have the least defensive capability, they just die or are forced to play so scared that they don’t contribute hardly at all, and I think that can lead to the tank player feeling like they’re the only one doing anything, which then increases the internal pressure to always be active.
I agree. Since OW2 tank is the single most responsible role and unless you're matched with smurfs, the rest of the team will not be able to pave the way for you. It makes tanks feel pressured to not stand idle. And since OW is a very active fast paced game, there is always something happening around you that forces your reaction. But I come to understand that it is unnecessary and even counterproductive to always react to everything with spaming. You are not always required to get on the payload, you're not always required to put every cd in hopes of getting a kill etc. Analysing and making good decisions is way better thing to do, while letting the game flow naturally. After watching Spilos in depth tank guide I realized OW is supposed to be played more like chess than arcade fighting game haha
spilo the type of guy to open a bag of chips with some scissors
God bless you Spilo!! Psalm 133 Ty for the help!! It has helped me climb from gold to diamond!
ab so lutely. DVA and Winston especially i've found it way more helpful to just chill when i don't have my resources. love this
I feel like I'm super guilty of this. Makes me feel a bit bad that I've kind of vaguely realized it without totally pinning it down. The little wavy graph really does show exactly why it's bad, too. Frick a frack. I just feel like I absolutely NEED to do something, all the time. Something to add on to the heap of things to consider I suppose.
Apparently spilo is the type of guy to put eggs in his cereal
The biggest problem for me is how much different tanking is in OW2 than OW1. I was a tank main in OW1, and made it to high masters multiple times. However, in OW2, the tank identity has changed so much, that my playstyle completely evaporated (I was an off tank), and now I literally can't make it out of plat-diamond. It feels like I have zero impact, and I can't go for any plays anymore, which is what I loved doing in OW1. Now it's just "Sit there and take space. Pray your team benefits off it. Repeat."
thanks Spilo, this helped immensely
Really helpful video
this is gold
oh god, that is my winston
very eye opening video for me, I have a lot to change
can I have link to full vod on twitch?
spilo youre favourite teacher coded
So what was the play here? Do nothing to peel for the supports or do nothing to be in time for sombra hack?
How would this work in the sense of Reinhardt? Rein doesn’t really have cooldowns to cycle and as much as I love the character, it almost feels like sometimes I do a little too much nothing trying to close distance or something like that.
Playing around your shield HP/Charge and even fire strikes to an extent!
Rein’s shield is a big deal. A lot of Rein players try to be constantly active by shielding a lot, often flashing shield frequently when it’s low instead of just letting it recharge. If you need to block a cooldown or something, then flashing it is fine, but otherwise you’re just delaying/eroding your future value. Having that shield healthy is so important for you to sustain your own aggression, right?
I also think the classic “Rein charges into entire enemy team; dies” is an expression of that desire to be constantly active. They want to be close enough to swing on enemies, which is the correct goal, but being close enough to swing doesn’t do anything if you die before you can hit anyone. A lot of Rein players will also charge after their shield breaks, which used to mystify me, but then I got a Rein who actually articulated the reasoning while he did it: it was the only active thing he could do in that moment, so he thought he had to try to get a pin kill.
Rein is also somewhat unique in having the capability to cross a very long distance quickly, but on a long cooldown with no other mobility (and, in fact, a self-slowing defensive ability). I think a lot of Reins in Diamond and below could probably climb a division or two if they just took the time to look and think before charging out of spawn. If you’re not actually catching up to teammates ahead of you, going further faster just makes it more likely that you die, or spend all of your shield HP and all of your supports’ cooldowns before the team is ready to fight.
Watching these vids has made me go from wanting to end it all when I play Overwatch to just now wanting to uninstall. Thanks Spilo!
This is why at low levels of play tanks with less downtime (orisa) are more successful or easier to be successfully on
Spilo is the modern day gene wilder
Nice nice
I just went 5-0 with Zarya and placed Diamond 3 with ur tips 🙏
How does this apply to sigma. I feel Sigma's value comes from pressuring the enemy squishes and if you play him right you don't run out of shield to often. However I'm also gold so what do I know
U kinda answered your own question. His point is that you don’t want to just max out every fight and use every cd u have bc if it fails ur gonna demand so much more resources from your team which will then allow the other team to roll you over. With sigma if your applying pressure to squishes who are a threat to your team properly, then you shouldn’t have to use all of your shield or eat or rock in a few seconds. You should be slowly evaluating when to use your cds so that you can maximize your uptime
Sigma and Orisa have a more stable cooldown loop with much less downtime than Winston (Spilo even mentions this in the video), but their spikes aren't as big as Winston's, since they mostly rely on hitting rock and javelin and applying constant pressure that forces enemy squishies to retreat.
Winston ideally aims to get a kill per engagement, and if he doesn't, he compensates by being a massive resource sink to defend the squishies from him.
If managed properly, Sigma has a near infinite defense, by rotating shield, suck, and the extra HP from suck.
I hate how the skill floor is so low
The game itself does such a bad job of giving proper feedback to tanks in OW2. Maybe the scoreboard should show mow much damage you take, because gold dvas are everywhere who think they carried because of really big damage and mitigation numbers from perma front lining.
Don’t worry about the numbers instead worry about the plays created.
Yeah, damage received and healing received would be useful stats to have.
The scoreboard is the worst addition in overwatch 2 it adds nothing. Its supposed to show how good you performed but often the value a hero brings cant be quantified so it makes it easy to find a scapegoat when someone’s damage is like 2k below the other dps’s damage. Its useless and its the source of a lot of unnecessary toxicity
@@Applic8799 yeah. It's one of many things that probably would've been better left unchanged.
Nice thumbnail
There’s a reason spectating tanks in owl is boring as shit and looks like they’re not doing anything, when you try to do too much you just int or give a false sense of space
cap
Guy Thinks He's A Coach
bro thinks he's a coach
Bro thinks he a coach