Matt Dillahunty vs Cliff Knechtle: Slavery
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2023
- Matt Dillahunty vs Cliff Knechtle: Slavery
A Countdown of the 75 Best Obscenities, Absurdities, and Atrocities of the Bible by Je Schneider Available on Amazon:
www.amazon.com/dp/B0C54WFM49
Audiobook Now Available
#slavery
#biblical
#yahweh
#christian
#atheist 
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Ephesians 6:5-8 “Slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ”
I don't know what bible you are reading but the KJV says nothing about slaves in them verses that's where man has took verses and just twisted them around.
@@jamesduncan2181 What makes you think the KJV is a good rendering?
interesting, according to the geneva bible (GNV), it uses servants, not slaves. Where did you get slaves from? or are you being dishonest. If you simply switched slave and servant for your own argument, shame on you. If you have an actual translation that says that, have you cross referenced every other translation or are you appeasing your confirmation bias
@@bellagiolutjen5392 Well telling servants to obey their masters with fear and tremblings is just as bad. And servant and slave was used interchangeably in the old testament. A servant was not a maid that come to clean twice a week then went home. They world have been owned by the master. And my quote came from the KJV which is the version most Americans use. What does the original aramaic say?
@@jamesduncan2181if christianity is true why it has many bibles? 😂
Owning people is wrong
All that needs to be said.
Matt owned Stuart here.
@@kidslovesatan34his name is cliff
@@smilloww2095he mistook the idiot father for the idiot son. 😅
And yet Matt owns so many theists😂
It amazes me how someone can be so condescending, arrogant and confident while spouting nonsense. It's like he expects people to believe him simply because of his attitude. Religion is just looking sadder and sadder.
That’s why apologists are conmen. It’s a confidence game, not a rational one.
Cliff is a terrible apologist for the Christian faith because he is condescending and arrogant and overly and foolishly confident that even as a Christian I couldn't stand hearing him. People say Ray comfort is bad, and he is, but at least he doesn't have a terrible attitude and way of speaking like Cliffe does.
@@AaronEllisOfficialif you felt uncomfortable watching this i hope you never watch cliff literally screaming at a guy because he made a question regarding gods actions and morality i felt bad for the guy honestly
Cliff is never condescending. He says to be intellectually honest. Because some of the people he was debating were not listening to what cliff was saying or even to what they were saying.
@@_____________4 what was the question? don't simplify it for me, i want exactly how the question was worded.
Trying to protect and make excuses for a deity who condones slavery is not the most evil thing faith leads people to do.
This is how you get dictators.
A message to all white people stop believing in a Christian African religion stop believing in Jesus focus more on science not fairy tales
Poor Cliff thought he had a point but then quickly realized that Matt was waiting for him to make his "point" so he could tear him up.
"The bible doesn't condone slavery...' except where it does.
brunozeigerts6379 So what?
@@Daniel-cz7kd So the bible condones slavery. The book that is supposedly divine inspiration of a morally superior being condones slavery.
The word "slavery" is what we see in the English translation but is not to be confused for what comes to mind for modern people when we hear that word.
We immediately think of the transatlantic slave-trade, but that form of slavery is punishable by death according to the bible.
You need to know the history of ancient slavery in that region to understand the context.. selling yourself into slavery/servitude was common practice for those who didn't wish to be homeless. Slaves had rights, could marry into their masters family, could be adopted, could earn their freedom and could inherit land and money from their masters. In this context, in those days, there's nothing immoral about it.
Of course, with a situation like this, it is fully possible for masters to be abusive, but this would have been illegal and is said to lead to hell.
@@user-rm6oq7vq4z You mean like the verse in the bible where it says that a slave owner could beat a slave almost to death... but if the slave gets up, the owner suffers no penalty. Or the part where the Israelites are told to take slaves from the tribes around them? Or that Hebrew men who sold themselves into slavery could go free after seven years, but not female ones. And not foreign ones taken into slavery.
Yes, in the context of Bronze age barbarians, this would seem normal. But since these laws were supposedly set by a morally superior god... no, that's not excusable.
A morally superior god should always be seen to be moral... not a god who approves slavery and genocide.
@@user-rm6oq7vq4z Also... the bible was used to justify slavery in the Antebellum South, and slaves were even given a slave version of the bible so they could read that their slavery was divinely justified.
Love how cliff actually has to open his bible and Matt can just quote directly 😂😂
Unlike Cliff, Matt has actually read the subject material.
Cliff is one of the worst apologists out there. It's sad that his son, Stuart, who is probably in the deconstruction process in my opinion, still attempts apologetics seemingly just to appease his father.
That's interesting. What makes you think Stuart might be deconstructing?
@@philb4462 I've seen several of the debates he's participated in in the last year or so. I've watched thousands of hours of atheism/religion related videos including, but not limited to: Anthony Magnabosco's street epistemology, The Atheist Experience, Talk Heathen, The Line, Matt Dillahunty, DarkMatter2525, TheramimTrees, Seth Andrews, Aron Ra, Rationality Rules, Holy Koolaid, NonStampCollector, Alex O'Connor/Cosmic Skeptic, Genetically Modified Skeptic, Godless Engineer, many thousands of tiktok creators, etc. I became an atheist about 2 years ago after a decade+ long deconstruction, my wife followed shortly after me. I recently had a conversation with a friend who was pretty far along in her deconstruction. I feel like I've become fairly decent at seeing the signs of deconstruction. In my opinion Stuart seems to show some of those signs. Some of the things he says, the half assed arguments he makes, the arguments he doesn't push back on, his body language, what he laughs at, certain comments he makes, etc. It's just my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt.
@@philb4462I'm curious to this as well
This should be the litmus test for theists, if they actually try to defend or deny slavery in the bible then they are beyond hope and reason.
Watch jim caviezel talking about his jesus hallucinations and how he saw a deck of cards with the faces of hellbound people.
Cliff then takes the walk of shame back to the college campus where kids who just want to debate for fun get stumped
He is talking about the post bronze society economics, where bartering, trade and slavery was predominant. Caste systems were ingrained in these societies and the ruling elite and religious leaders fought tooth and nail to keep it so.
Even the Romans would promote Christianity- not because of its moral message but because of its use in the enforcement of social and political control.
How anyone can sit in a debate in the 21st century promoting a religion, where the evidence against both Bible & notion of God, is damning, is literally beyond me.
The Bible is a tool of social and political control, and should be seen as such.
Exactly, which is why the Bible was written simply out of the minds of mere men of the times and therefore even more proof nothing about it is divine nor divinely inspired.
Exactly, which is why the Bible was written simply out of the minds of mere men of the times and therefore even more proof nothing about it is divine nor divinely inspired.
True. A religion is a theocracy where God is your political leader, your Prime Minister, your President, never to be voted out of power, else you damn your immortal soul.
Cliff literally speaks gibberish and it's so sad how brain washed he has been.
The Bible absolutely and clearly condones and allows for slavery. The gauge to how you rationalize that determines the level of apologist you are.
So cliff basically said "well you can't say Bible supports slavery because bible actually doing good which is making “good” rules about slavery. Boom! checkmate Conservatives, checkmate liberalism"
So making a rules about slavery isn't supporting slavery i guess?
especially since the Bible wasted no time telling us what is wrong and things we should not do. Why didn't it say slavery bad?
Yes. Context. You don't support slavery but I'd assume when someone goes on a murder spree that they should go to prison. In prison you are a slave and you lose rights and freedoms and most of the time, labor for free or labor for very little pay. Should prisoner/slaves have rules on how to be regulated or not? If you were to answer that question, then according to you, you support slavery. To be consistent to your flawed reasoning, no one should lose rights or freedoms for any reason.
@@DownHavenEnt prison isn't slave, prisoners is a prisoners, hence why it's called "prisoners" from the beginning. Stop making simple things complicated just to romanticise slavery
@@jurayzscout9432mate. Do your research. If you lose rights and freedoms and work for little to no pay and in a system where they are privately owned. You are a slave. Even In America, looked at the 13th ammendment and get back to me.
@@jurayzscout9432so wording is the issue with you not the context of what it is? Rights lost, no wage labor and private own prison owners, 13th ammendment, and change the word from slave to prisoner and now it's ok in your argument.
LOl great fluidity means im a bullshit artist.
Regardless of philosophical foundation, any statement about slavery, or the treatment of women, or of enemies, that begins, 'What you have to understand is...' can safely be disregarded.
If the Bible says I can sell my daughter into slavery (and it does) then that means God is okay with it. Also, if God is okay with it why isn't he? Does he know more than God 🤔?
Welcome to another episode of "Watch The Christian Lie".
Not a lie lol look at the eyewitness evidence
@@bigbeans6776
OK. Show me the eye witness evidence.
@@bigbeans6776
Nothing?
Very well. I accept your concession that you lied about there being eye witness evidence.
If you have to lie to support your beliefs, it is time to get new beliefs.
@@cygnusustus
The eye-witnesses EVIDENCE were the gospels of Jesus Christ. They placed the EVIDENCE in the books of the gospels in the New Testament.
They were DYING for what they wrote in the books and for what they claimed to be true. And I know that neither you nor me would DIE for a LIE.
To sum up, the eye-witnesses accounts died for their claims of truth and placed the evidence in their books which are now in the bible.
Oh and also, if you're interested, one of their claims was that they saw Jesus Christ risen from the dead and that He had appeared to another 500 people. One of the many miracles that Jesus did.
Know brother that God doesn't wishes death upon the sinners but them to come back to the Truth and righteusness. Seek forgivness and the all loving God shall grant you forgiveness.
Exodus 21:7-11 is likely referring to a situation where a man wants to marry a woman whose family can't afford any bride-price or dowry. The father sells her to the man so she works as a servant or "slave" for a while instead up of coming up with the dowry or in order to supplement it. Reading on you see if the man no longer is interested in her (if she does not please the master who has selected her for himself) he's broken faith and cannot sell her to anyone else and must let her go free. This is why she is being treated differently than a male slave.
Making the Bible and the god of the Bible more loving, caring and moral than what is contained in the Bible. Has always been the way Christianity has brainwashed it followers.
How many female rabbis were there in the Old Testament? How many religions throughout history ARE patriarchal? Did Jesus have 6 male and 6 female disciples? When was there ever a female Pope?
exodus 20 = the ten commandments
exodus 21 = Rules on how to treat your Hebrew slaves , this is right after being freed from slavery in Egypt
Rocked 😂
While the Bible does contain passages that seem to accept or regulate slavery, many interpreters and scholars argue that the overall message and trajectory of the Bible is opposed to slavery. Here are some reasons why:
1. Imago Dei (Image of God): The Bible teaches that all humans are created in God's image (Genesis 1:26-27), which implies inherent dignity and worth, regardless of race or status.
2. The Exodus narrative: The Israelites' deliverance from slavery in Egypt is a central story in the Bible, highlighting God's concern for the oppressed and marginalized.
3. Leviticus 25:39-43: This passage limits the duration of slavery and promotes the release of slaves, contradicting the common practices of the time.
4. Jesus' teachings: Jesus emphasized love, compassion, and equality, challenging the social hierarchies of his time (e.g., Matthew 22:37-40, Luke 10:25-37).
5. Paul's writings: While Paul addressed slavery in his letters (e.g., Philemon, Ephesians 6:5-9), his emphasis on equality and unity in Christ (e.g., Galatians 3:28) laid groundwork for later abolitionist arguments.
6. The early Christian church: The church's practice of communal sharing and care (Acts 2:44-45, 4:32-35) reflects a commitment to economic and social equality.
It's important to acknowledge that the Bible's teachings on slavery are complex and have been interpreted in various ways throughout history. However, many Christians and scholars argue that the Bible's overall message promotes human dignity, equality, and freedom.
The Bible's teachings on rape and marriage are complex and have been subject to various interpretations. The passage you're referring to is likely Deuteronomy 22:28-29, which says:
"If a man finds a virgin who is not engaged and takes hold of her and lies with her, and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days."
This passage is often misunderstood and misinterpreted. Here's why:
1. Historical context: This law was given to protect the victim, not the rapist. In ancient cultures, a woman's virginity was highly valued, and rape could leave her unmarried and shamed.
2. Consent: The passage assumes the woman did not consent to sexual relations. The phrase "takes hold of her" implies force or coercion.
3. Support and provision: The law requires the rapist to provide for the victim financially (fifty shekels of silver) and marry her, ensuring her economic security and social standing.
4. Protection from further exploitation: By marrying the rapist, the woman was protected from further exploitation and stigma.
5. Not a prescription for modern times: This law was specific to ancient Israelite culture and is not a prescription for modern societies.
It's essential to understand this passage within its historical and cultural context, recognizing its intent to protect the victim while acknowledging its limitations and differences from modern values and laws.
Read the book richest man in babylon
Polyanisch , perfect!
He fillets him😂😂😂
Acts 17:30 “God overlooked people's ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him. Jesus Said: NASB
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are oppressed,
God did not create slavery.
He created us, people with free will. we created slavery. We made the decision to rule over others and dominate one another.
If you truly open your heart and mind to look for the existence of GOD, you will come to find just how real he is. And you will also receive understanding of who he is and how he interacts with us, which will clear up the foolish arguments. Humanity is to blame for the evil of this world, not GOD. But again it’s your choice, GOD gives you that freedom.
I hope that you (whoever doesn’t believe) will come to find the truth about GOD.
I know GOD is true and no one can convince me otherwise. But Consider this my unbelieving friends, if GOD is fake, I lose nothing. But if GOD is real, you loose everything.
God bless you.
Weird how it's never condemned. Eating shellfish and wearing certain fabrics is prohibited
Couldn't have said it better, man, may God bless you and your loved ones.
"man created slavery" god gives regulation
"man eats shellfish" god says you shall not
Makes sense?
@@frankschwarzbier7168stop coping and read the replies
Im definitely in the minority here, but the bias in these comments is crazy.
At face value without understanding the context of the stories allows people to believe slavery was condoned in the bible. It was never condoned, the fall of man allowed corrupt governments and people to permit slavery, and what is given in the Bible is how you should treat other people in a depraved culture.
Remember, one of the greatest miracles of the old testament is the EXODUS of slaves.
Oh Joel, you silly boy. Read Leviticus 25-44-46, then read it again. God himself tells moses to buy his slaves from the heathens about him. To be slaves for life. Property to be handed down to their heirs. This is good old fashioned chattel slavery. Owning people is immoral and God told Moses it's aiight.
Btw, the exodus? No evidence of that many hebrews ever being slaves in Egypt. They were slaves to the Persians though, and some archeologists and historians believe they adopted their monotheistic ideas from the Persians. The birth of Judaism.
Is beating people a good way to treat people?
Is telling people not to eat shellfish a more important rule , than saying don’t own people as property?
Not a single verse in the Bible in both the old and New Testament says that slavery is wrong.
The rules in exodus was given to gods chooses people. How can that be a depraved society? Why is there different rules for male Hebrew slaves to female Hebrew and none Hebrew slaves?
Why are the rules worse for none male Hebrew slaves?
Comparing slavery to capitalism is wild
Is it special pleading to say that slavery is wrong except when Matt Dillahunty owns his opponents in a debate
Slaves don't get paid.
They can be. But still be owned by another person. Therefore not free to themselves, but owned. That's slavery. Doesn't matter if they're being paid or not.
Im a Muslim, slavery is allowed in my scripture, too and Im totally fine with that. But Cliff here is a hypocrite, he tries to twist his own scripture to try and make slavery somehow "not part of God's ultimate plan" its weird and it makes no sense historically either. The New Testament never outright abolished slavery and it was heavily practiced in the East which was predominantly Christian, to go and say that they were misinterpreting scripture or not following the true commands of God is just foolish behaviour
Cliffe spouting his usual tap dancing bull shit
There is a difference between telling a story and saying that what happend in this story is good.
The bible doesn't state slavery is good or is condoned.
There are verses that clearly state it is not okay you can look it up
Where?
@@jaydeejohnson7 bible
@@affebanane3039 where?
@@jaydeejohnson7 bible
@@affebanane3039 got it.
You don't know
You can’t preserve the entire bible as a moral work. It’s written by human beings. Those human beings may have had divine influence but that doesn’t make them moral beings. I would imagine god would not discriminate in who “he” reveals himself to, if he wants to save anyone.
This is the point that almost all atheists miss, as well as Christians or religious people. It’s foolish for either of them to assume because someone wrote something down thousands of years ago, that it is somehow representative of what the creator of the universe wants. Maybe God did speak to some of them, but certainly not all.
You guys are moving the goal posts. The guy is an apologist claiming that the Bible is the literal word of god while simultaneously claiming that the book doesn’t condone slavery when it obviously does. If you want to believe in some sort of creator no one is saying there is anything wrong with that. What is being disputed here is Christian theology which claims that the Bible is the infallible literal word of god and it condones slavery among other atrocities such as discrimination of lgbtq+ people and blatant misogyny.
@@madmyc6836 I never said that at all. I never said I agreed or disagreed with ANYTHING in this video besides a literal interpretation of the bible
Lol seems like god only spoke to men, except once when he spoke to Mary, and said, "I'm going to impregnate you."
@@madmyc6836. Great work. How they always leave out their god is supposed to be all powerful?🤦🏾♂️
It never condones slavery at all … foolish absolutely
Exodus 21:2-4
“If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free."
Slavery was revolutionized, not abolished, because the new propper form of it (that God is actually for) was too economically beneficial to the poor.
It gave them a way out of their situation.
So you agree that we should bring back slavery and legalise it everywhere around the world as a way of helping the poor right? Because this is the idea you're undirecty preaching
Matt put cliff in his place.
I'm just curious how a non-all knowing person such as Mat would know what an all-knowing being should do.
Because an all-knowing being should be able to do a better job of communicating what it wants. It also should have known the serpent would corrupt Eve, that it would come to regret creating humans. Not so all knowing, eh?
@@brunozeigerts6379
Remember that God grants people the freedom to choose. Despite being all-knowing, He sometimes chooses not to foresee certain events, hoping that individuals will make the right decisions. This is evident in the stories of Adam and Eve, as well as the angel who became Satan.
We can see this pattern in the case of Jonah and the people of Nineveh. Initially, God intended to bring judgment upon them, so He sent Jonah with a message. However, when the people repented, God chose not to execute His initial plan. He could have foreseen their change of heart, but He didn’t.
Furthermore, consider Jesus and His apostles. Jesus spent a whole night in prayer to God, seeking guidance. God could have warned Him not to choose Judas as one of His disciples. However, Judas initially appeared faithful and only later changed. God could have known this in advance but chose not to.
It’s essential to note that it wouldn’t make sense for God to create humans, knowing they would fail, and then send His own son to endure a terrible death.
As for understanding what God desires from people, His intentions are revealed throughout the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation.
I'm curious why an all knowing and loving God would create a parasite that has a single purpose, and that is to bore into the eyes and cause people (the vast majority being innocent children) agony and eventual blindness.
@@DanFedMusicthe babble is the claim not the evidence.
People are allowed to find fault in the strange actions of your god, walk a children's cancer ward and then tell us all how great the sociopath that you worship is.
@@dazzag
All the unfortunate events occurring in the world, including issues stemming from our imperfect genetic makeup and our mismanagement of Earth’s resources, can be seen as a consequence of humanity’s pursuit of independence from a higher power, often referred to as God. Even if someone denies the existence of God, they still face the same challenges,, only without any hope of resolution.
Everything that has a beginning has a cause. The universe had a beginning, therefore the universe has a cause. Whatever caused it has to be outside time, matter and space. It would need to be personal, powerful and intelligent.
Help me understand why it would have to be 'personal'? Could it not be something we simply don't understand? No cosmological data that i'm aware of indicates anything 'intelligent' or purposeful. It's all consistent with the laws of physics acting on matter without intervention of any kind, as far as I'm aware. From the vantage point of being a miniscule part of the universe, anything universal seems 'powerful' from our perspective, but I don't see what indicates that it's power being intentionally wielded, rather that it's just more significant than the human race, which is what we'd expect regardless when it comes to the nature of the universe.
@@Mr_Jomblespersonal because only personalities “decide“ to do something. 😇
We don't know the universe began, we only know it changed from one state to a different state.. besides that began to exsist stuff, applies to things in the universe, you don't know it applies to the universe itself..
Plus that outside the universe personal junk is baseless..
Willy lane c sucks.
Reject the first premise, and the rest is gibberish.
@@paulfromcanada5267 I agree with you completely. Only a living creature makes a 'decision'. I just don't follow how we can connect the dots from 1) we don't understand the nature of the universe, to 2) the declaration that something intelligent, like a personality, sits behing all of that, when the only evidence that we have shows that both thought and intention come only from things that already exist within the universe that we have. To say that on the largest of all scales, away from all the conditions we've seen as being necessary for a thinking being to exist, that we can put something 'thinking' and 'acting' like a human being there too, seems like it doesn't have any justification unless someone already wants it to be caused by a thinking mind, rather than just being a fascinating mystery for us to seek well-justified answers to. Do you see where I'm coming from?
@@larryscarr3897 Here are five observations that point towards the universe having a beginning:
The second law of thermodynamics
The universe is expanding.
Radiation from the big bang.
Great galaxy seeds.
Einstein’s theory of general relativity