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Why The Standard Islamic Narrative (SIN) Is Wrong.
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- Should we trust what the Islamic narrative tells us about the the development of the Quran? Who was it that first wrote down the Quran? Was the Quran revealed in Mecca? Let's find out...
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:30 Quran contains stories of fiction that predate Muhammad
09:00 Quran contains details that would of made no sense to people in Mecca
16:00 Mecca has little water/agriculture to support significant amounts of pilgrims
20:40 Historical-critical approach and the science of Hadith
30:45 The name of Muhammad
33:20 Additions added later in the Quran
34:30 Different accounts of who wrote the Quran
39:55 Muhammad seems to still be alive at 634AD +
40:23 Abdul Malik and Al Hajjaj rewrite the Quran
43:56 Islam as understood by eyewitnesses as a Jewish/Christian sect and not a separate religion
47:03 Conclusion
Big thanks to @IslamicOrigins, @LloydDeJongh for all their dedicated research and attention to detail in their critiques of the Standard Islamic Narrative (SIN) - check out their channels to learn more.
This is the best, clearest summary video on the Quran that I have seen
Shame about the distracting music in background
This says everything about you.
It also proves why the churches are empty.
It's like he thinks a 54 year old "marrying" a 6 year old is the best example for mankind?@@alonzoharris326
@alonzoharris326 what does it say about me? How exactly does it explain church attendance? Mrs Logic
islam is literally a COPY AND PASTE of other religions with heavy paganism at its core. We are simply making it plain to the people who are unaware of this ridiculous ☪ult. The dawah script is DEAD⚰
Toward the end of his life, Muhammad became bitter toward the Jews and somewhat less toward the Christians. The bitterness stemmed from Muhammad's wanting to be recognized as a prophet, but ultimately rejected. Since then, the Muslims have played a game of we're your friends when the minority, but your conquerors when the majority.
Regarding the accuracy of the stories contained in the SIN, the Muslims will claim any differences are corrections with their version being the actual one.
Did he try and be a prophet to both at the same time or was he rejected separately?
@anthonyrobinson6590 the Quran refers to both collectively often as People of the Book. He definitely interacted with Jews more. Several Christians mentioned were either heretics (his Brother in Law I believe) or wound up leaving Islam and going back to Christianity (one of the scribes recording the Quran, according to the Hadith).
When Muhammad began preaching there were 3 Jewish tribes in the area. When he died, there were none.
@@Sousabird interesting. I recall reading about some of his advisors being from a southern Arabian\yemen Jewish tribe that converted to Islam. Maybe they saw the handwriting on the wall.
How many Jews accepted Jesus in percentage?🥴🫠
@@Sousabird
Jews are not an ethnicity. One of the companions of the prophet was a former rabbi.
Don’t try to impose your western antisemitism based on ethnicity into our sources. Islam doesn’t care about ethnicity. It only cares about piety to towards god.
Jews are followers of Judaism in our sources.
Chris, this was outstanding! Job well done. Thank you!
The sad thing is that despite all the countless, obvious evidence Islam is false, a ridiculous number of people mindlessly follow it.
Which would matter less if it wasn't so dangerous
The trinity is three gods.
@@alonzoharris326 allah = 3 gods
@Ahmd9292 you are very ignorant
@@Ahmd9292 you have your own Trinity. Allah Quran Mohammad
@Ahmd9292 I know you think you don't, but why is Mohammad next to Alkah in the shahada? Why woukd you kill me if I drew a cartoon of him. Or said he is a ped0file? Cos you eorship him?
What a valuable summary of the development of the Quran and Islam in general! Thank you.
It’s a poor stream.
You can clearly see who his sources are. Two clown from internet are his historians.🤣
valuable? no its what u want to heard and what u choose to listen..
@@jwlZckKeyboard jihadis don't have room to talk😂
Muslims tell us Abraham built the kaaba and Al asqa.
Sahih al-Bukhari 3366
Narrated Abu Dhar:
I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Which mosque was first built on the surface of the earth?" He said, "Al- Masjid-ul-,Haram (in Mecca)." I said, "Which was built next?" He replied "The mosque of Al-Aqsa ( in Jerusalem) ." I said, "What was the period of construction between the two?" He said, "Forty years." He added, "Wherever (you may be, and) the prayer time becomes due, perform the prayer there, for the best thing is to do so (i.e. to offer the prayers in time).
Abraham lived 4000 years ago and died at 127.
If he built Al asqa 40 years after kaaba, why is Al asqa ON TOP of temple mount Which was built in 560BC, 1500 years after Abraham died ❗
How can something supposedly built before another building be ON TOP of that building ❓❓❓
Another hole, when Hagar was in the desert with her child looking for water and the well appeared
The well is close to the kaaba and when Abraham supposedly built it, hagar and her child would move have been far from that, she just had to knock on someone's door for water
u did read the history about al aqsa..ofcourse from the to time there a new contruction by the new candidate..is it hard to think..even kaaba itself got a lot of renewal depends on the goverment..
@@shroomitechromeehihi u think they live during our time..there no one in the makkah land during hagar was semt there..but the prove is the zam zam water..are still live in denial
@@jwlZck was the kaaba built by Abraham
All of these ahadith about early prophets go back to Abu Dharr, who was a hanifa of another tribe. I suspect he actually fed a lot of these ideas to Muhammad.
Look forward to checking this out. This looks great, Chris!
The trinity is three gods.
@@alonzoharris326According to Surah 19 of the Holy Quran, Isa is a Demigod and lives next to Allah in the 7th Heaven with Ruh al Qudus. (16:102)
islam is literally a COPY AND PASTE of other religions with heavy paganism at its core. We are simply making it plain to the people who are unaware of this ridiculous ☪ult. The dawah script is DEAD⚰
To say that 'there are some holes in the standard narrative' is to put it mildly. Thanks for the video Chris.
Many thanks Chris, I have been looking forward to hearing from you. Miss you at speaker's corner.
Chris I love these longer form videos of yours because your shorter videos are lethaly potent to Islam, but when you string them all together and connect them all in a cohesive polemic it's almost impossible for someone to come out of your video being ready to multiply assumptions to account for the whole picture you lay out. Great work!
The fact that the Quran is ordered primarily by Surah length is still the most baffling thing to me.
It does a good job on obscuring the progression of the practice and aims of early Islam by removing the actual chronology.
Why?
What’s your logical argument?
@@alonzoharris326 My argument that ordering a book by length of Surah is bizarre? Because its not a reasonable way to assemble a book. You could sort it by chronology, which would be logical and useful, and then we'd have a definitive chronology. Or it could be grouped by topic, or who appears in each Surah. But instead it is ordered longest to shortest which provides literally no benefit and only serves to make an intensely dull book even more of a pain in the ass to read.
@@alonzoharris326 How can you talk about logic? when you refuse to see the issue with ordering something incorrectly.
*Why would man change the order God sent Quran?*
Very strange.
@@Sousabird
Is that a logical argument?
Because a book doesn’t meet your own personal made up criteria. Therefore it doesn’t make sense?🥴
What a great argument. You have refuted Islam lol.🤣
Excellent work! Good job Chris 👏
Thanks for sharing the very good summary of i_slam - may God bless you and keep you.
Brother Chris, i do not think most Muslims know what they do. Am i introuble because i got muslims to chant "Yashua akbar" untill they realized what they were saying 😂😂
Great video keep exposing these decepta-cons.
Never stop Chris, you are great ,make abdools 🐒🥔🐴cry 😭, 🙏.
God bless 🙏 🙌
ignorant that never want to listen or study..but just want to listen to what u want to listen..i call it stupid
Very much appreciate you Chris... may God bless your endeavors and favor them for His Glory. Great channel, great perspectives, great insight, great knowledge, great timbre and tone... Christ is King!
You’re sooooo right 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾💯💯💯💯
I appreciate how you go through and explain different Islamic concepts. I’m 30 min and this was massive with information. Need to save this
Thanks Chris for enlightening us about the Islamic history and to exposing Islam, may almighty God bless you with more wisdom and knowledge and may He protect you. 🙏🏼
are u gonna listen to your teacher who is grad in acting but teach engineering?
@@jwlZckYou mean like a wannabe keyboard jihadi who can't even spell correctly?
Keep up the great work brother!!..God bless you and your loved ones.
Love your videos Chris. High quality in every way. God bless you from Sweden!
I am Muslim and love Chris
May Allah guide you chris
Maybe we can sit down for a conversation one day
Very good video you got talent for this kind of work keep it up
I missed the clap! haha. Thanks great guy!
Excellent 👍
"I showed this video to 4 Christians and they all converted to Islam! Alhamdulilalalala!"
(Btw, nice video brother! I am especially fascinated by the Mecca polemic and lack of + super late evidences for this supposedly greatest and most important city according to SIN).
But you have no problem accepting the cities in the bible.🥴🤣
@@alonzoharris326 Yes because there is historical evidence for them.There are cities mentioned in the Bible that still exist to this very day. Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, Jericho, Damascus. Even Gaza is mentioned in the Old and New Testaments. Mecca does not show up on maps until the 700's, after Muhammed died.
@@wyattearpswoman838
You are funny.
Show me archeological evidence of the big city Jerusalem.
Every claim in your bible can’t be verified by archeological evidence.
The OT is written in 500 bce.
You are making claims about 1400 bce.
You are such walking contradictions.
All historians accept Mecca.
You won’t find many historians that agree with the biblical claims about 1400 bce.
@@alonzoharris326awwww. Taking a break from your kindergarten classes, Agonzo?
😂😂😂😂😂
@@alonzoharris326Except they don't, but OK. Keep making sweeping stupid statements about your moronic holy book
Great stuff!
Wow.. very informative very respective.
Praise the Lord
No where Muhammad can be find, maybe he never existed.
There is billion times more historical evidence for Mohamed than for Jesus and Paul combined.
Keep trying.🤣
@@alonzoharris326 There's a billion times more historical evidence for mahamed (POLICE BE UPON him) than for JESUS and PAUL combined? Show us the billions of times more... If you can't then you have lost all credibility
The quran talks about JESUS FAR MORE than mahamed (POLICE BE UPON him) 🤡🤣🤣🤣
allah = 3 gods
@@alonzoharris326 I'd love to see that.
@@ImCarolB
How much do you want to bet?
Your earliest source Paul claims that Jesus is a created archangel who was never on earth.🫣
@@alonzoharris326maybe they both didn’t exist
Brother in Christ, new subscriber here. See you in speakers corner
Thousands of people memorised the entire Quran since the prophet's time. There are lots of hadith and instances until now where when someone reads it differently, someone would point it out. Quite sure there were scribes but that's the secondary form of preservation of the Quran. I'm not a staunch Muslim but I memorised some verses. It was surprisingly quite easy. Fun fact, the Quran says that God made the Quran easy to be memorised
It will be interesting to see how you utilise this information at Speakers Corner.
The early Islamic sources actually say that Qusayy was the first to have people build permanent structures in Mecca. Before that, no buildings at all!
The Quran states that no vegetation grows where its followers are from, yet the legends about Mecca in the time of Ishmael turn it into a garden. Which somehow dried up....
There are narrative that the first literate people in Mecca learned to read in Muhammad’s grandfather's generation. There is a great deal more writing and reading taking place in the Meccan narratives than you'd expect, but no one had a job as scribe. The settlement was too small. Remember that Medina was the big city to these guys and it had maybe 3000 people.
There is a study done on the copius genealogies that estimates the Meccan population at only 550 at rhe time of Muhammad, btw, and it's well done.
There are MANY inserted ayat interpolated into the text. Many, many. They were added by Muhammad, though, when he was called out--if you had the ability to add new stuff post Mo, you would have the authority to fix the problems that require interpolation. The theology of the Qur’an as given by Mo limited fixes to interpolations during his life.
Hafsa's personal Quran did NOT agree with the Uthmanic text, according to the Islamic sources. Which is curious!
39:00 That is actually what happened over and over and over in the Quran 😂😂😂 It is AMAZING. All over the place!
Abdul Malik's recension efforts coincide with Christians reporting that the Shia are hysterical over their holy scripture being destroyed. It seems most likely that the Shia had much larger Qurans (which Shia tradition affirms) that were taken away. Al-Hassan also says that the order of the Uthmanic Quran is also wrong. Surah 87 should be among the first pages. I think it was more strictly enforcing that Abdul-Malik thought the Uthmanic Quran was, though he probably didn't even have a perfect copy at the time.
You have to realize that Christians by 600 viewed all pagan religions as heresies, distortions of true faith. This includes pagan Egyptian religion and pagan religions of the Balkan mountains. They are described in heresy books that attempts to claim they are really originating from the truth faith, but got confused.
The quranic dilemma needs to be repeated over and over again
Nice topic
This is true.
Here is our stance as Twelver shias
We believe the story regarding Alexander is falsely attributed to him
Dhul Qarnain was a Monotheistic Muslim , probably Cyrus or another king , who had a journey outside earth and met with extraterrestrial beings
Gog and Magog and the gates are not on earth , our hadiths explained this clearly , it is oudside earth
Alexander heard this story from the persians , but didn't really comprehend it and falsely attributed a fake version of it for himself
Prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali revealed the true story
That's how we explain this
I think that Christians have thought through more of the SIN position and make such good arguments that this will butcher even there own theories.
Hi Chris..Question..King..Saul..David ..Solomon ruled isreal..how is that only 1947 they were recognised..BUT KINGS ARE RULERS OVER LAND..
I’d listen to this, it appears very well researched, but 52 mins of the background music is too much. There’s so much background music nowadays and I don’t see how it helps on video like this. How do you think it helps the viewer?
It is funny that Chris is talking without taking the context of the verses of the Qur'an
The story of Dhul Qarnain starts with the expression; "They ask you about Dhul Qarnain, say......"
Even the story of the young men who slept for years is a story the Prophet was asked about.......
The reason for the revelation of these verses was a result of the test to Prophet Muhammad to tell the story. That if the Prophet truly receives Revelations, then let Revelations be given to him concerning these stories.
There was no way Prophet Muhammad was aware of these stories and yet he immediately gave the stories as the revelation came to him.
So Chris, before you open your mouth to criticise things, get knowledge first .......lol
“There was no way Prophet Muhammad was aware of these stories” provide evidence for that. He was surrounded by people who would have known those stories, all of which predate him, as they were in circulation in Jewish and Christian circles. In any other religion you’d accept that the most probable explanation was that ideas where we have evidence for them existing beforehand were known from oral traditions or written sources without a divine revelation at a later date.
Why the special pleading on behalf of Islam?
@@joygibbons5482
Then why did the Jews ask the Prophet about these stories if he already knew them?
Why do you people just make claims when you don't know the backgrounds?
At least Google Wikipedia for the background and stop throwing falsehoods around.
Mohamed wrote by his left hand
Muhammad didn’t write the quran and sunnah you people really getting the most false informations
Zaid bin Thabit
You just can get . The coraan is was a verbal revelation and it is prove and reprove still til today bring me a book which is in forechen language that you don't understand and don't make a mistake by pronounce I for a and try to read it over and over and over and over and over over and over although you don't understand it the coraan is the only book that could pass that test those who understand it read it much more over and over..... You should save your energy and really try to understand it and if you don't ask a Muslim scholar to help you not any Tom.Dick an Harry...
christians speak about Quran and hadeeth..we watch ur videos in speakers againts muslims. already
Where's the scholarship? These are just bunch of questions.
If you search on RUclips for Pfander Films, Cira International, Islamic Origins, and more, they provide the sources of scholarship.
my question for u is simple..in islam the man did not responsible dor other people sins..so why in christian the jesus have to take the sins for other people doings..while he is the best trying to avoid sins?
Jesus was the innocent lamb that was slain. Revelation states that Jesus is the lamb that was slain for the sins of the world
Jews prior to their temple destruction believed in animal sacrifice to atone for sins
The Syriac Alexander legend claims Alexander was a Christian, dude. So Christians DID hold that he was Christian. plz fix
Your interpretation to Sura 18 is wrong, you are missing a lot of knowledge.
What kinda knowledge? 🤔 let's say it's not Alexander the great still it's stupid... where are this bizzare creatures forget about the hadiths since YQ ..the holes in the narrative boy says they're Israiliyat....
Are you calling the Jajalayn liars? They say it is 'al-Iskander'.
Chris hamza was at soeakers order and so were you this Sunday gone ...why didn't you debate him....? You didn't want to go on his stream ok but in person, what happened
Prove I was there last Sunday - show me any video from any channel with me in it from last Sunday at speakers corner.
You can't because I wasn't there.
@chrisatspeakerscorner I'm not saying you were there u muppet I'm asking you where you was the one Sunday hamza shows up your not there ironic isn't it...join the arena and debate him go on the video where you discuss hamza and you claim he isn't debating you look how many of your own fans are telling you to join arena and debate him atleast listen to them
@chrisatspeakerscorner Chris I'm a regular at speakers corner . stop acting like you not been destroyed before at speakers corner by the dawah team you know it and I know it your a joke ...syfetalk has refuted you and you hold no value for anyone to waste time on you show me one full debate clip of you debating anyone on your channel you do soundbytes that's all
@chrisatspeakerscorner hamzas den arena will be at 9.30 tonight will you join to debate hamza I mean hashim will be there and zakir hissain you know both them from speakers corner so let's see if you join I challenge you to join but I know you want because its all talk chris isn't it... you only fool your 10 viewers and fan boys we all know truth
The dawah team run nowadays,Hamza even says usuzlly... ' 6:46 i did not make an appointment to debate you. ' 😂😂
Chris believes in three gods.
You believe in a false god
@@sorrynotsorry3264
Your god doesn’t exist. The trinity is a logical contradiction. Logical contradictions don’t exist or have the possibility to exist. Logical contradictions are by definition false.🫠
@@alonzoharris326The Quran confirms the Bible
@@Jin-dc7gl
Which bible?
The Bible that says muhamad is a false prophet, which is all 757657647 of them.@@alonzoharris326
dont just talk in front of the camera..go find a scholars and debate..be brave
Islamic scholars are unable to address the many holes in the standard islamic narrative: there are too many contradictions and inconsistencies, which cannot be defended.
@@gavinjames1145Here is our stance as Twelver shias
We believe the story regarding Alexander is falsely attributed to him
Dhul Qarnain was a Monotheistic Muslim , probably Cyrus or another king , who had a journey outside earth and met with extraterrestrial beings
Gog and Magog and the gates are not on earth , our hadiths explained this clearly , it is oudside earth
Alexander heard this story from the persians , but didn't really comprehend it and falsely attributed a fake version of it for himself
Prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali revealed the true story
That's how we explain this
@@JadAwwad Sunni scholars have always associated the story of Dhul Qarnain with Alexander the Great (based on the Greek _Alexander Romance_ - the real 'true' story). There is little debate about this, especially in the context of Gog and Magog, and the metal gates/wall.
As is typical of the Qur'an, it is too vague to be considered a reliable source; and certainly is not a book of history.
You're correct to think that the 'gate/wall' and Gog and Magog are "outside earth", because they are _fictional_ entities: literary devices!
The fact that scholars debate these things demonstrates how unreliable and unclear the Qur'an really is.
I would also suggest that the authors of the Qur'an were confused about the 'Two horned one', since the story of Dhul Qarnain in Chapter 18 is preceded with a story about Moses. Moses was also depicted with wearing two horns in Antiquity.
he is, you are the keyboard warrior
Marijn Van Putten:
“The text we have today is more or less the same as the way that Uthman had standardised it”
“It’s word for word identical to Uthman’s text”