Problems I'm Having After Only 12,000 Miles | Honest Information
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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For the record, this is not a video I wanted to make. But there seem to be four major issues with my 2024 Subaru Outback Wilderness, and they all seem to stem from one location. On my first Outback Wilderness build, I did all the mods I could to make that vehicle an excellent off-road machine, even though I don't think Subaru intended for people like you and me to take this car as far off the beaten path as we do. However, the 2024 Outback Wilderness was built with a very different purpose in mind, and now, with fewer miles and far less hardcore use, I'm starting to have issues that I didn't expect.
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My 2022 OBW started having CVT issues at 24k miles. It left me on the side of the road 4 times with Check Engine lights. Subaru refused to do anything because they couldn’t reproduce the issue. I finally got them to replace the CVT at 34k miles after it left me on the side of the road. I finally said it’s a safety issue and it needs replaced. Once they replaced the CVT it hasn’t left me on the side of the road but still has little quarks of a CVT. I’m glad I got the 100k mile warranty.
Sorry to hear about the drama! Glad they got you squared away.
The major take away here isn't the Soob running rough but we should listen to our wifes MUCH sooner.
For personal context, our 2019 Crosstrek still rides like the day we bought it. We've ran that thing hard and its still solid.
Thanks, dude!
The stuttery stopping is the torque converter locking and unlocking at low speeds. At normal speeds it generally stays locked and you never feel it.
My 2023 Subaru does it too. Most annoying in parking lots when it really can't decide what to do. I've been told it's normal.
Just to expand on this: you can search "CVT Common Operating Characteristics" and look for a result from Subaru Canada. Their website has a dedicated page that explains what is going on, including what speeds the torque converter locks at, as well as common sounds and symptoms you might hear.
For me, it will do it most notably when I am slowing to a stop or crawling. The car has a slight surging sensation as the TC unlocks, allowing the drivetrain to spin more freely. This is the stuttery stop. I have had other automatics that do it, but none as aggressively as the Subaru does.
For the longest time I couldn't figure out what that was but coming from a 10 speed transmission to a CVT is definitely something they dont tell you you have to get used to lol
So far for me the only issue I've had with my 2023 OBW is I had to have the rotors resurfaced at about 19,000 miles. There was excessive vibration because the rotors were so warped. They were good after they were turned. Now at 21,861 it's starting to do it again. I'm going to buy better quality brakes and rotors and not use stock factory rotors or brakes again.
That's what i've learned. Hopefully people read these comments!
@@reginaldsandiford801do you live in the mountains? Try using the paddle shifters to slow down on down hills. Brakes only warp when they over heat.
Did I miss the part where he took it to the dealership?
Had a 2018 Subaru Forester XT. Before 60k miles, an upper control arm broke while off-roading in Anza Borrego (bumpy dirt roads) and the AC air compressor also went bad.
I started getting more adventurous with off-roading but was worried the Forester wouldn't be able to hang. I was also worried about the CVT going bad after reading horror stories on Reddit and it had prevented me from really pushing the Forester to its limits..
Traded it in for a Tacoma and have never been happier. I have abused the Tacoma with off-roading and I recently got my first alignment at 30k miles and it barely needed to be calibrated.
It's never a bad idea to het a toyota. I appreciate the input!
Man, I’m looking to get rid of my ‘17 TRD OR V6 4x4 manual transmission. I’m a little over 6’2” and 240 lbs. this thing is just too small and very uncomfortable. I’m heading on a 310 mile vacation next month and I’m dreading it. It takes me a full day to be comfortable after a trip.
Within two to three months of newly purchasing my 2023 OBW had a loose bolt on the roof rack, a paint run in rear spoiler (obviously done at the factory) and a deformity in the front passenger seat. I complained to SOA and they gave me a free 6yr/80,000 mile gold plus warranty.
Three weeks ago (with 17,700 miles), I had the driver seat bottom replaced due to crumbling foam. When I brought the loaner home I saw oil on my garage floor. I told the dealership to check my car for a leak. They discovered that the number two cylinder spark plug tube seal leaked oil. It sat at the dealership for two weeks in 90 degree+ heat waiting for the part. Apparently their entire computer system was hacked and caused delays in receiving parts. While my car was sitting in the dealership lot, it was dinged twice. They repaired the dings with PDR and fixed the leak, so it’s been OK, but man, such a headache.
On the bright side, sitting in the heat all that time must have relaxed the interior, because the interior no longer has squeaks or rattles. So, that’s pretty cool.
Anyway, I have never had so many issues with a new car in my life. I highly doubt I will ever buy a Subaru again. I’ll just drive this thing until the warranty gets close to expiring. It’s a shame, because it is generally a fun and versatile car, and my dealership treats me very well.
And please, I don’t want excuses. I’m over the days of making excuses for cars. I’ve had cars that performed flawlessly for over 160,000 miles.
By the way, the service manager at my dealership told me that the OBW CVT costs about $8,000.00.
I appreciate the input I would agree with the car being a great car for a lot of reasons. I'm new to the CVT so these issues are just not something I'm used to dealing with.
@@roamingwithjosh This is my first CVT as well. I had an Onyx loaner for a couple days when one of the warranty issues was being handled. I don’t know what was on my mind, but I turned the car off without putting it in park. As I got out, it started rolling. It only rolled about 6 inches before I jumped in and hit the brakes. 😬
Sometimes the universe has to slap you around a bit to remind you to pay attention.
The coming to a stop jitter/stutter is what I've been experiencing with my 23 OBW as well and it's been normal for me. My 2012 Impreza at is now at 235k miles on the original engine and CVT, the CVT in my Impreza does the same as well. Pretty much imo, it's a CVT thing/issue I still don't like to this day, but no major issues with the CVT.
I appreciate that and glad to here I'm not crazy.
I’ve experienced the jitter/studder/push through feeling of my outback so far when the vehicle is cold
I have experienced those issues as well. So much that we are probably going to get rid of the car and get something more reliable. This was my first Subaru and will be my last.
I have experienced the "searching for the right gear" phenomenon in my 24 OBW. For me it happens when I'm going up eastbound I80 out of Colfax, CA. It seems the car can't make up it's mind and I end up putting it in "manual" mode. The first time I noticed it the car had less than 1000 miles on it.
The other problems you mentioned I haven't noticed but now I'm going to pay closer attention.
I have other issues with the car that make me crazy(er). Mainly related to the slow software interface, but I won't go into my rant here.
Thanks for the video Josh.
Appreciate the comment and thank you!
It’s a CVT. Do you know how they work?
Ever look into a cvt anti-wobble insert for the transmission mount? It's like $50. It would likely solve your problem. Every car has its quirks. It just takes a second to figure them out.
I have not, but I appreciate the input!
I have a 2025, I have not noticed any of these issues, I do consider myself a pretty gentle driver of vehicles, so far this vehicle has been absolutely amazing.
Happy to hear that!
For everyone experiencing the stuttery stopping, it is normal. Here is a direct quote from Subaru that might help explain it:
"Due to the linear nature of the CVT, the torque converter is able to partially lock-up at approximately 9 km/h then lock up completely at 24 km/h, and remain locked as the gear ratio changes."
You are experiencing normal torque converter behaviour. The jerkiness as you slow down to stop is your drivetrain unlocking. A conventional automatic does not lock the torque converter AT ALL unless you are cruising on the highway, which is why many of us aren't used to it. Being locked most of the time is a big advantage for the Subaru CVT, and a primary reason why their heavy AWD system can still achieve decent fuel economy.
I'm sorry but this should not be the case with a $30-$35000.00 vehicle .
It's interesting that so many don't experience the same issues. I'm definitely not disagreeing with you and I what your stating makes perfect sense. I appreciate you taking the time to put this in the comments for me as well as others!
@@roamingwithjosh I have 4 modern Subaru's in my family--Crosstrek, Crosstrek, Forester, Ascent--and they all have identical stuttery stopping behaviour. So have all the models I test drove when shopping for mine.
The reason not everyone experiences it is because cars are complicated and not everyone notices the same things, as you pointed out with your story about your wife. Some people crank their music and zone out while driving, others meticulously listen to every little bump and noise.
Rest assured, every Subaru with a CVT behaves like this. It is literally the stated design of their transmission system to stay locked much more than other vehicles do. There are certain driving conditions where the vehicle's inertia is going to cause a jerking sensation as the drivetrain unlocks, allowing things to turn more freely. Whether or not this is a good design choice, that's up to the consumer. The fuel savings found are worth it for me, but it is definitely annoying.
My 22 I have owned since new for over 3 years. The CVT has always whined and I was told its normal. Its not. I have experiences the studder and very haed downshift feel. Although its a simulated shift. It was excessive. Now its in the shop after my dash completely lighting up and flashing AT fluid temp and going into limp mode. Back to Toyota after I get it back.
I totally understand why!
I’m SO happy to know I’m not imagining things!! I have a 2024 OBW with less than 10k miles on it and the stutter stop is real. To me, it felt like ABS pumping the brakes but it never made sense why that is happening, so thank you for making it real. One more thing to add to my list for the dealer on top of the infotainment system lag.
It is normal. Your torque converter unlocks at low speeds, and this can cause a bit of a jerky feeling while decelerating.
Please search "CVT Common Operating Characteristics" and look for a result from Subaru Canada. They explain what is going on. I don't know if the American website has the same info page.
Appreciate the comment and hope you get it sorted!
I have a 2023 OBW and I was having that stutter stop issue. Subaru cut my rotors then replaced my brakes and rotors under warranty but I’m still having the issue. About 20k miles total now. My sunroof has rattled like it’s not attached to the car since new. Other than that it’s been a great car.
This is the second comment about the sunroof, interesting issue that I had no idea about. I appreciate the input!
2024 OBW has roof rattle from day one. Taking it to the dealer to fix under warranty. Thanks Josh for your honest post. This helps OBW owners. This is my first OBW - appreciate fellow owner comments.
I have a 23 Outback Wilderness that I got with only 500 miles on it. I started noticing that stutter braking within the first 3000 miles. I thought it was the brakes at first too because it felt like it was grabbing and letting go and honestly led to a couple close calls where I thought I wouldn't be able to stop in time. I also turn to the different forums to see if other people were having that issue because a car with less than 3000 miles shouldn't be doing that. The best I could find as an answer is that it has to do with how the cars computer is trying to predict which gear it needs to be in next by using the vehicle speed and throttle position to get a sense for whether it needs to speed up or slow down.
I just reached 12k on it now a year later, and I will say that I don't really notice it as much anymore. The car seems to have learned my driving style and how I brake. Once in awhile I will still feel that same stuttering when I'm speeding up and have to quickly apply the brakes, but for the most part it's not as bad.
I appreciate your input!
Mine started doing the same thing at around the same mileage. I took it in, and they said they couldn't replicate the issue. It also sometimes stutters a bit when giving it gas while in reverse. No process is perfect, including manufacturing and assembling transmissions, so hopefully we're just outliers, and they'll resolve the issue soon. As it is, at least they're still under both the bumper-to-bumper and powertrain warranties.
And, to be sure, mine's fully stock, with only factory parts and accessories that have been installed by the local Subaru dealer (I don't like to risk voiding warranties, so I don't modify my vehicles beyond such options), yet it's still having these issues, so I can attest to the fact that it's very likely none of your parts swaps are to blame.
I have a 24 OBW with 3K on it. I haven't noticed the suspension or braking issue. The whining issue might be the turbo? That would be my first guess, but I haven't noticed any whining aside from what I attribute to the turbo. The gear searching at about 80-85 I have had the exact same issue. The cvt has preset shift points, which it calls simulated gears, and it seems like the computer can't quite figure out which of the final 2 "gears" it wants to be in at that speed. That's my best guess at least. Maybe something they can do an update for, but I don't know enough about it to be sure. I honestly wish there was an option to forgo the simulated gears entirely.
That makes a ton of sense and I appreciate the input!
I ocassionnally had the stuttering stop issue at first in my '23 wilderness (up to ~6 to 8k miles), but it seems to have completely disappeared. Now at ~21k miles, I actually forgot it had been doing that until you brought it up here..
lol sorry about that. Happy to hear it went away and hopefully it stays that way. Thanks for the comment!
1. “Car rides rough… oh yeah I changed the wheels, added spacers, and got off-road tires.”
Rebalance wheels first. If that doesn’t work, factory reset the ECM so it “re-learns” its optimal shift and mix settings with the new setup. That’s a dealer service, should be under warranty.
2. “Transmission was shot early… after towing uphill off-road.”
Did you do a proper break-in as per the manual? CVTs have pretty strict break-in requirements.
3. “Braking is halting… after I had the brakes serviced.”
🙄 Give it time.
4. “Car can’t find an optimal shift point when I’m speeding, fully loaded with passengers and luggage, off-road accessories, huge tires…”
Yeah, you’re pushing about 7000 lbs on a relatively small naturally-aspirated 6 cylinder. You’re topped out on gears and the engine has to bump into overdrive to maintain speed, but staying in OD is real real bad, so it drops out.. then back in… then out...
Outbacks get amazing fuel economy for their size at 74 mph. Slow down. If you drive 1000 miles at 85 vs 74, you’ll get there an hour and a half sooner, but burn twice as much gas.
I'm really confused as to what you're saying here. Something tells me that instead of watching the video you were writing a comment.
Forgot to add: Don’t forget that these transmissions rely heavily on software, learn your driving style and behave accordingly. The service department can reprogram them. Likely one of the solves they’d try to implement in uncovering a potential issue.
I have a ‘23 OBW and also experience the jerky stops but it’s not consistent and happens once in awhile. I’ve heard elsewhere it has something to do with the whole eyesight system and how it interacts with your brakes. It’s not a CVT issue. I’m taking it in to the dealership have it documented under warranty. I anticipate the usual “unable to duplicate “ response.
That's the response so far and hopefully I can get better answers. Thanks for the input!
I'm adding this as a second comment because I didn't think about it until now and it is important... I have found that the Subie. Reacts very good to the adaptive cruise control a lot of the issues are just not even existent! Thus I run the car in the cruise as much as humanly possible... The pedal to engine is just not??? Just not... I don't even use the throttle/ brake, unless I actually need to.
Right on. I appreciate the input!
2024 outback wilderness. 6k miles with 3 roads trips and an oil change. We have a car top carrier and a hitch for mountain bikes. I did feel the stopping stutter yesterday and my wife thought it was me. I haven’t driven it yet since then, but will keep in the back of my mind. Thanks for the video. Can’t wait to tell my wife that she is wrong! 😂
LOLOL Thanks for the comment!
Check into service bulletin 16-136-22R. We traded in our 2022 OBW due to the center differential and the rear differential going out and needing replacement. Subaru is aware of this stuff but denies to do much. They will hold out on you to avoid lemon laws too. We were forced into a crosstrek with $3k back and loss of $17k on ours. I’m certain that the services bulletin covers more than the 2022 OBW as well.
I'm really sorry to hear about that and thank you for sharing this info for others!
I have the stutter stop on my OBW. It is very faint and only happens every once in a while when I usually come to a stoplight slowly. It really doesn’t bother me as it is very infrequent. I have about 7.5K miles on mine. I noticed this phenomenon pretty early on, but hasn’t got any worse since.
Biggest issue for me is the infotainment. I was using Google Maps on CarPlay and I couldn’t even open the climate control. It would attempt to open, then crash. CarPlay and infotainment are constantly battling each other. Sometimes the radio will randomly turn on while I’m driving. Super weird.
I've had the stop stutter since I bought the car and it's random when it happens. When I had my 2020 legacy at 3k miles the cvt started to make a whine/buzzing sound. Always happened from a stop when going up any kind of incline. Subaru replaced the trans and never had an issue after that.
Thanks for the input!
Guy blabs too much.. 3 mins in after a bunch of skipping, cant figure out the main point of the video. Have to jump to comments to see the symptoms
Be patient and watch the video and you would have been able to decipher the english I was speaking..... Thanks for the comment though!
@@roamingwithjosh it’s constructive feedback in economy of words and having intentionality in your videos. No one watches your video for the talking head.
Should not need to “decipher” anything
4g@@Yoyomanmanholla
Hey Josh, I have just over 40k miles in my 22 Outback Wilderness. I’ve not experienced issues 3-4. Especially the 80+ mph thing, which is not an unusual speed here in TX. I’ve routinely driven at that speed or higher for sustained periods of time with no issues. I do feel like my suspension rides slightly rougher than before but am not sure if it’s due to the Wildpeak tires I replaced the OEM tires with. But the ride is not bad by any means and easily absorbs our pothole ridden streets here in Dallas. I’ve also experienced the #2 braking issue when I’m trying to slowly come to a stop. Feels like slightly warped rotors but the dealer said they were fine. I’m frankly used to it and it hasn’t impeded braking performance or become overtly annoying to me. Again, it only happens when I try to come to an extended slow stop when there are no cars in front of me and I’m on a decline. Otherwise, I’m still loving my OBW after nearly 3 years and am not thinking of trading for something different - and this is coming from a guy who, for the last 20+ years, routinely changed cars in 1-2 year intervals. So that’s saying something!
Right on! It really is such a great car for so many reasons and after all the comments on this video I have much less of a concern about the things I'm experiencing. I appreciate your input!
@@roamingwithjosh I admit that asmuch as I love my Wilderness, I must say that the issue you’re having at 80 mph would be very disconcerting to me. Hope you can get that resolved!
I also experienced the brake issue in both my 2022 OBW, and 2024 OBW. I think it is just the brake pads. For reference, I traded in my 2019 STI for the 22' OBW, so going from 6 pot Brembos to 2 pot basic brakes is what led me to seek out better braking for the OBW.
I replaced the front brake pads in both the 22' & 24' with EBC Yellow stuff. The difference is exceptional, and very much worth doing. I only have good things to say about EBC Yellowstuff.They are also not even expensive for the OBW. $120CAD. The result: better braking, linear peddal feeling, and no more shutter or what almost feels like brake fade when nearing a full stop - happend on both 22'& 24' ' OBW. Better brake pads equal better brake feel and better stopping. I also have 255/55r18 wheels with 30ET offset, and the Ralitek 3/4" overload springs which I also highly recommend over any other lift. The wheels and tire combo net me 11" clearance under both the front and rear factory skidplates. That's loads of clearance for what this car is meant for.
I appreciate the input!
98000 on my 2021 Subaru Forester. 2” lift and other mods. Never an issue with this car.
Awesome to hear!
I got the 23 legacy spot and noticed the transmission started having the jerky issue, when slowing down for the red light, it would suddenly push forward like you did a downshift. Report this to the dealer a few times, and they told me they could not replicate it. I am 100% sure such a situation did not happen before 8K miles.
I'm learning that this seems to be the norm. I appreciate the comment!
Good luck brother! No vehicle is without faults, they all have some shortcomings. Every vehicle I’ve ever owned has and every vehicle I’ll own in the future will have some faults. Press the issues with the dealership and make them go on a road test with you driving if they aren’t believing or finding the same issues. If you can demonstrate the issue with them in the car then you’re solid.
Appreciate it, dude!
All good here with my 2023 out back with 235/65/17 at3 falkens, terra power rock sliders and Anderson fabrication armor only. So far so good 12k miles.
Glad to hear it!
Shit man… we have a 2024 Outback wilderness and I have the same stutter stop feeling.. I only have 5k as of this week. And I’m not sure how to fix it. I do have my first oil change scheduled for august so I hope they can address it. It does feel like the brakes are releasing and makes it seem like I’m pumping the brakes and releasing when I’m not. Now I have to look into that with Subaru… thanks for the video…
Wife's Crosstrek had a whine from the CVT (noticeable at low speeds) - ended up needing to have the CVT replaced. My OBW never had the whine, but I was thoroughly disappointed with the performance of the CVT with that turbo engine. I have a sneaking suspicion that the CVT cannot handle the full torque of the engine in at low speed, so Subaru purposely "upshifts" the ratios to decrease load. It happened on my 2020 Outback Onyx XT and my 2022 OBW. Annoyed the snot out of me. I tried to live with it... but I couldn't. Traded it for a 2024 Chevy Colorado ZR2 and haven't regretted it.
Nice!
I have a 2022 OBW with the Ironman lift. I just passed 41,000 miles. Doing grrst, knock on wood. You are still well within warranty. Depending on other comments, bring it in with your list. At a minimum, it begins an official record if anything is a warranty claim or informs Subaru before you sell it and someone inherits any issues. Maybe you have a cvt lemon. Maybe something else. If the dealer balks at your concerns, file with Subaru of America. In any case, a car that new can be put to the dealer you trust for diagnostic evaluation and hopefully correction.
Thanks for the info!
I have a 2023 outback wilderness and I am having the same problem right from the get-go. When I took it in for the 5000 mile service I mentioned it and they said it wasn’t a problem. If something feels like it’s out of round when you put your foot on the break something is not right.
Year in with my 2024 OBW. 24,000 miles.
Yep, I have noticed that stutter stop. But does seem less to infrequent now. But I get that same tugging feeling when creeping up hill to a stop. Leaving my house I have a steep hill on dirt road that at the top of hill is a cross street that I need to keep momentum in winter but be near a stop for traffic. I do live at 8,500 feet so I thought that might attribute to the issue.
Always enjoy your videos but do hope you will consider making a follow up with what you have learned from your collection of comments.
I hope you don’t sell because I kinda use you as a touch stone so I can speak to dealership with more confidence. When I know I’m not the only one with a concern/problem it is easier to not let dealership treat me like crazy woman.
For me you’re doing a public service.
✌️
Thank you very much!
I've put my 2022 through the ringer. Just did a mild Jeep trail yesterday... I think the Subie Outback wilderness CVT is a clucky, quirky, weird, system... I've experienced all those issues. My last Subaru was a 15 WRX manual and tuned. I ran autocross and Track days and had it up to 155mph. Outback up to 125ish. If I'm driving "sporty" I use the manual setting on the transmission to keep the RPMs where I want. Same thing with going down steep hills off-road I just lock it into first or 2nd when I'm out of the downhill descent range.... I wish they made their CVT "shift" more like a side-by-side. But it is what it is, a quirky strange vehicle that does things that most wagons can't. So far I it is not left me stranded! I won't keep any new modern vehicle longer than 8 years... The systems and electronics are just so overly complicated that it's not worth repairing. When the repairs end up costing as much as the vehicle is worth. One more insight along this line is I have 2 million miles of semi truck driving. We will not keep any new Truck once the warranty is out for the reasons mentioned above.
Right on! I appreciate the comment!
Check your gear oil . And around were your drive shaft slid in to transmission to see if it leaking your rubber rings might be crack. If so it could be the weels .because the drive shaft is not going straight to the transmission. It going slightly off set .And your brakes might be working to hard to stop because the weel sizes .Going back about your transmission. your gearbox is bolt on to transmission you thing it the transmission having problems but could be gearbox in side the gearbox there are clutches. It might be wearn out by the tires .I had same problem I changed gear oil and my problem want away. It shutting when I make turns in slow gear .It wont do it in hight speed only when you stopping or going slow .Before you take the Subaru to dealer put back the rim and tire back on what came with the Subaru. So you dont lose the warranty on the car .If you dont put back original tire and rim you well lose warranty.
Appreciate the input!
I have a 23 Outback Wilderness with 5500 miles on it (picked up used with 3100). I have had both the jerky stopping issues and "gear hunting" issue since I got it. Research since noticing this has told me that 90 percent of owners experience the jerky stop issue and Subaru has yet to actually remedy it. It seems as though the high torque cvt converter doesn't disengage quickly and drags causing the jerk. It will not do this if I double tap the brakes when coming to a stop oddly enough. In terms of hunting for gears, it's always between the 7-8 "gears" on slight inclines that causes mine. I make it stop by just locking it in 8 via manual mode. I will bring both up to my service advisor when I go in for service, but I expect them to chase brake rotors and do a throttle relearn without success in resolving the issues. Hope this helps.
I appreciate the input!
Your 3rd issue is something I noticed very shortly after I got my 24 OBW to the point I mentioned it to the dealer, and I agree with you, I to think it’s the transmission lurching forward when it’s not under power. The 4th issue I have also experienced and was told by the manager at the service department it’s the program to simulate shifting in the CVT not quite knowing what to do? But it’s an obvious issue that needs addressing in my opinion. FYI, mine is bone stock.
Appreciate the input and sorry to hear your having similar experiences!
I’ve got the brake stutter… feels like engine breaking (kicking down to lower simulated ratios) in a not so smooth way.
Thanks for the comment! Makes me feel better that more people are having this issue and it's not just me. Thanks again!
My gut tells me it’s the tires… Could be wrong but something tells me those tires “wear” through the smooth compound around 12k (1 year for a lot of people) On my 2020 Forester Sport I had zero issues. It was heavy modified and driven several of the 40k miles. There is a bit of sluggish acceleration from 0-15 MPH but that was just the torque adjustment. Wasn’t anything intrusive or problematic. No other issues what so ever. With both stock, space lift and Ironman kit. No real notable ride or quality issues.
Hear me out - is it possible it’s in your head? Or the tires? Take it to a dealer and have them look at it. Tires can make a significant impact on ride and sound etc.
Your point about the tires after 12k is really good and I honestly didn't consider that at all. Now that you mentioned it I have to take a look at that. Comments like this are exactly why I made this video. Much more helpful then the dealer. Also, it could definitely be in my head, hopefully it is.
@@roamingwithjoshif you have your stock wheels still it may be worth spending an hour swapping and testing
This was my first thought as well. I’m also “just a guy in a garage”. But I’ve had all terrain tires that start off “comfy” initially but then seem to lose that after a few thousand miles. Nothing terrible by any means. More akin to using a winter tire in the summer.
I have a 2023 Wilderness with 20,000 miles. I have the stuttering brake issue you mentioned and it's pretty annoying. Aside from that, I haven't had any issues and it's been a good vehicle. I do have long term reliability concerns with this vehicle. There are many other options out there if you are't happy with it.
Crappy part is that I want to be happy with it. It really is a great car for a lot of reasons. Thanks for the input!
Might try having oil changed on the CVT. Back when I had a new car I changed all my fluids/ oils early to knock out any loose bits of metal from the “break-in” period.
I was told that it was unnecessary, BUT my car is now 19 years old now and still runs good. No leaks and no work done except for regular oil/fluid changes.
And I can feel a difference in how it drives every time I do the run through of all the oil/fluid changes.
I appreciate the input!
Had a 2020 Outback Onyx 3 years 93,000 miles, now have a 2024 OBW 23,000 miles. Both cars have been driven cross country and 950 miles down the Baja and back from New Jersey. The 2020 3 times and the 2024 once. Multiple unpaved roads, beaches , and often at 85MPH while on highways. I have never experienced any of the 4 issues. If the 2024 acquirers any of these issues I’m definitely going to blame you. Love your channel.
Lolol maybe I shouldn't have put that into the universe… happy to hear these issues aren't happening and hope it stays that way!
@@roamingwithjoshof course they’re going to tell you that and I’ve been seeing it a lot lately with people taking their Subarus to the dealership. The techs don’t make $$ doing warranty work is what I hear or mechanics/techs these days don’t know much about them
My '24 OBW is at 7k miles and so far is doing well, except for the stutter braking - which it's only done maybe twice. Otherwise no complaints so far, but now I know what to be on the lookout for.
Thanks for chiming in!
32k miles on my 22 obw and that break stuttering thing annoyed the hell out of me. Started around 22k miles and It seemed to only happen on very hot days and was fine during the winter months. As much as I love this car its definitely going to be my first and last subaru.
It's weird that this has happened to people at all different stages of mileage. I appreciate the input!
We have a 2024 OBW, and I can honestly say our Subaru experiment is pretty much over. We have about 15K miles on it. We've done some mild off roading in it. Mostly just graded dirt, and nothing flexing the suspension. I've been experiencing a power lag from a stop. There is a very noticeable delay, like a dead pedal for 1 to 2 seconds when taking off. As for the CVT, well now that it's summer (we live in Bullhead/Laughlin area) the heat is most definitely affecting it. When it over heats, it slips, and there is a very noticeable torque loss. The car in general "feels" loose, and full of noises that were not there when new. I have a year and a half lef on the lease, and will not be purchasing it, or leasing another. We normally do quite a bit off roading, and I just don't trust this car.
Great information! Thanks for sharing.
I also have had 2 OBW. My 23 had the same "Brake Issue". Took it to the dealer and got the usual. "It is normal", is what i was told. It was in the shop 3 time for the same issue and kept getting the "it's normal", but the shop forman did pull me to the side and told me there were no codes so nothing they could do but he had "blank" year as a Subaru service tech and he has seen this in an older model Outback. He said it was the torq convertor either staying locked up or not locking up (sorry i don't remember) and it took a lot being reported before Subaru did anything on them. He suggested i request a higher level service tech (i guess they have regional one vs just the ones in the shop) who research more tricky issue which inturn get forwarded to SOA. When the 23 was totaled it had 19k but did this since day 1. My 24 has 7k miles and is doing the same thing, also i am having an issue with 2 more things. 1) i am on my 3rd rear sway bar as they pop the bushing out. They have no idea why this is happening and going in for the 4th sway bar. 2) if you leave the car on "Acc" to listen to the radio, after 15 minutes the battery is dead and won't start. My 23 never did and i can not reproduce this on their cars on the lot yet they claim this is normal and no fix besides never use the "accessory " setting and just go straight to start.
I appreciate the input on all of this!
Sad to say that I think some of the changes Subaru has made over time has not been for the better
We had a 2001 Outback that we put 100k miles on before we had any issues. We took it all over the western USA while living in Idaho & lots of rough roads, snow, & wet weather. I didn’t beat it up but didn’t baby it either. I went everywhere I wanted.
Then we replaced it with a new 2011 Outback. It was nicer & did well for about 6 years & then started having issues. After dozens of trips to dealerships we gave up trying to fix it.
Replaced it with a Grand Cherokee & haven’t had a problem. I have been considering a 2024 OBW to replace my other jeep but something has held me from pulling the trigger. I’ve heard to many stories of odd problems & changes to the cvt that keep me skeptical. I want an OBW that runs like my old 2001. By the way my mother-in-law drive that 2001 for a couple more years before the engine blew near 160k.
Hope your issues get resolved & really hope Subaru wins me back.
Appreciate the comment and your experience with the brand far surpasses mine. It seems most of these issues seem to be noted by others. I'm not sure if that makes me more or less concerned, but it's good to know I'm not the only one.
Haven't had any of these issues in a 2023 wilderness with 25k miles. No mods other than OEM skid plates, and I've taken it on some very rough roads.
Appreciate the input!
The stuttering stops has happened on my '23 since almost new (currently has almost 18k on it). I only notice it when the AC is also running. Otherwise my only major issue has been a creaking sunroof when closed, and groaning horribly when opening/closing. It's been replaced once and it still does it.
Appreciate the input. I have not had a sunroof issue, but that's probably because I never open it lol.
Just got a 2024. 1,300 miles so far and def noticing gear hunting at that 80 mph mark.
The follow up video addresses the concerns. Nothing to worry about is what I gathered.
Yes, hunting for gears but it is a CVT??? My thought is that the turbo has time limiter on it, or something like that. So the turbo kicks in and before your done accelerating it turns off and the car slows. The you nudge the gas pedal a little and the turbo kicks in again, creating an oscillation of MPH. I notice it also when cruise control is on the mph will vary even though the mph is set with the cruise control. Granted, I live in the mountains and my highway driving is up and down hills constantly. I simply blame it on the engine not having enough power to push the car without the ample aid of the turbo.
I appreciate the input!
The brake stutter has been happening since day 1 for me on my ‘24 OBW. I thought I was the only one that was dealing with it, but it seems majority of owners experience the same thing. Happens mainly when I first start driving after initial engine warm up. Now I just slowly depress the pedal when coming to a stop and allow the torque converter to ease into the lower ratio, and it never happens when I do just that. Just gotta build that habit. After that first initial slow down, it goes away completely for the rest of the drive. That “riding rough” thing you’re dealing with is definitely concerning though. I love the way my OBW rides and I would hate for it to get “worse” sorta say. Maybe you’ve just gotten used to it and you’ve become more sensitive to those bumps, etc.? Just an idea..
You very well could be correct on the getting used to it part. It could also be after driving the raptor and then jumping in the OBW it just feels more jarring. I'm not giving up on the OBW yet, she's been too good to me!
@@roamingwithjosh Thanks for the reply man, love your videos and a big part of me purchasing my OBW was contributed by your videos. I'm at roughly 1500 miles now, just did a "break-in oil change" at 1200 miles, but now I'm wondering if I should do a "break-in CVT fluid change"? I've noticed many owners state to do the first CVT fluid change NLT 30K. So that's probably what I'll do. But maybe, just maybe, yours may need it sooner due to the slightly higher load your CVT is experiencing from the offset wheels & larger tires. From my research with modding these cars, little changes like that can make a huge difference on wear & tear over shorter or longer periods of time. I'm glad you're not giving up on your OBW, she deserves a good life, and I believe just a tad bit more TLC will do the trick, and you'll have many more adventures to come with that beauty! Please give us an update down the line if you get the time to do so ☺🍻
I just purchased my first outback in my life or my first Subaru I should say. 2024 outback premium just got it 500 miles no issues. I did a lot of research before I purchased the vehicle for the wife personally I think the turbo is just too much for a CVT transmission. 🤷♂️
Could be
I have a pretty modified '22 forester wilderness, with only about 20k miles and zero issues so far, aside from the junk ironman kit haha, i do take it on rough offroad trails as well, but fingers crossed. That being said, i do personally know at least one person with an OBW at around 12k miles who was saying it felt like it was running rough, and I tend to see many more posts on the wilderness Facebook pages about problems with the OBW than with the FW though, and more problems overall with the TR690 transmission in the turbo Subarus vs the TR580 in the NA subarus.
One thing though, the CVT subarus have a torque converter that noticeably locks and unlocks between 15-20mph, and sometimes feels like a shutter, or a lurch forward. In both of my foresters, it was rough within the first 1000 miles, but it's barely noticeable now.
That being said, i did overheat the transmission in my previous '19 forester, and afterwards, it felt sluggish or that it would sometimes "slip a gear" where i would step on the gas at a green light, the revs would go up but I'd barely move for the first second or so.
I've noticed that lag in acceleration as well when taking off from a light. Didn't even cross my mind until you just mentioned it. I appreciate the input!
Thank you for posting this video. After listening to you and reading the comments, I'm at least a little bit less concerned with the problems. I've experienced the same as you in my 24 OBW with 25K. Except for the ride quality. And that could be due to my lack of being able to notice it.
I would agree that I'm also less concerned after hearing everyone else. Thanks for the input!
Have had stuttery stops when the car is first cold for the first few stops. From what I've read on the internet, it is normal. This car would be perfect if it had a zf8 speed automatic transmission.
lol agreed! Thanks for the comment!
I came from a lifted Volvo xc70 with 200k on it and the quality was way better and more reliable then my 1st 19 forester I have now, I hate it it feels cheap lack of power, surging now I’m starting to have issues with it hard starting like it has a dead battery but it’s brand new and now Im wishing I wouldn’t have sold my Volvo
Thanks for the input. Sorry to hear about the BS.
I have 2023 OB XT. It only has 10000 Km. The same issue- hunting for a “gear” or a ratio to keep rpm’s , especially when accelerating uphill approximately at 70-90 km/h . Also can smell burning driving long uphills. I mentioned everything at the dealership while servicing the car and the only thing they told me they couldn’t replicate it .
Another thing that frustrates me is a dashboard rattle, especially on uneven surfaces. It ruins all the impressions and feelings about the car . I wonder if anyone have or had the same issues with dashboard rattle and if so , what you guys did to fix it ?.
The materials inside the cabin is not bad at all but fit and finish has to be improved a lot, seems like there is no good quality control .
Ohh , and one more thing I felt like those mechanics at the dealership just for oil and liquids changes , nothing more serious than that . And overall I feel like as long as the car is off the dealership lot they don’t care much about it afterwards at all.
Totally disappointed, the car is not so bad but those small things make a bad impression about it . I hope it just all about cars made in America and I wish those made in Japan are much better quality .
Thanks for the input! I have not experienced the dash board rattle, but I will pay more attention to it now that you mentioned it.
Don't know about the out back but my crosstrek after 10.000 seems just fine. My have a transmission cooler and less body weight. Maybe if you get the trek it will be a better choice. Just my opinion but even, subaru should take action in that matter.
Appreciate the input!
Dude I hope the best for you. I got my ass an OBW partly because of you! You are an asset to this community, I know it is something to worry about but don't give up so easily. Every time you have an issue and take it to the dealer they all say the same thing. Unless you go in with smoke coming out or a flat tire or something obvious they hear see and know nothing! So keep going back and do reach out to SOA sometimes SOA has done big favors for people even when they were in the wrong ( not saying you are in the wrong ) just saying they have done favors for people. Give them a shout and tell them about your issues see what they say.
Even with all the problems you are having you will be hard pressed to find another ride like a Subie. Nothing matches Subaru in this department!
I sincerely appreciate that and I agree about not finding another car that checks so many boxes for the light adventure crowd. Thanks again!
@@roamingwithjosh Keep this alive and keep posting more videos with updates when they happen. This will help us all out and iron out any issues. I also have a theory that Subaru is slow in taking care of issues. To me it feels like they wait till all the data is in and then do something about it. This helps them iron out more issues in one swoop but for people with problems they just keep waiting for a solution and leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I also think that this is also some type of software issue and it can be addressed with a newer map? Maybe, Maybe if we really wish hard enough they might do something about that stupid auto start stop! For Fecks Sake!
I had a 2011 Outback, 93000 miles. drove a bit ruff but, 93,000 miles. Right out of the gate I had a little (what I think) was a suspension issue that only happened on certain streets. It was a rapid clunking type noise only happened every once in a while. Now I have a 24 OW 3,000 miles. When I first got it I felt it was a bit twitchy (Still feels twitchy) like something is loose suspension wise. But I figure that it having taller tires and a bit of a Subaru lift was the reason and that I just wasn't used to the feel of it. Anybody else know what I'm talking about? Yeah the CVT makes the car kind of stutter or maybe it's the Turbo. I'm still not used to it. By the way the 2011 had a great backup camera, high quality, and a 110 plug. C'mon Subaru!
Appreciate the input!
I have the exact same problems! But not with the car. It's the wife. She thinks she knows everything.
I’ll take your wife if you don’t want her.
lololol mine is usually right.....
These issues aren’t a OBW problem. Have had multiple newer Subarus over the last several years and all have the same oddities.
Cruise control in the Forester Sport and Crosstrek does the same thing you explain at about 78-80mph. It will try to hang at 2500 RPM on steady climbs and then judder up and down around that area. It’s so frustrating feeling this jerky ride.
Same thing with stopping for me too. It likes to do a pretend hard shift down when coming to a stop. Only way I can explain it. I have at least heard it explained that this is the torque converting unlocking, but damn is it annoying.
Finally, if crawling at parking lot speeds on a cold day, the vehicle likes to get revvy. It seems to hate the cold + low speeds under 10mph.
None of it I think are true mechanical issues but Subaru is clearly doing some bad QA with the programming in these powertrains.
Appreciate the input!
"im not a professional by any means", perhaps you should be taking to a Subaru dealer or specialist for a diagnosis instead of tying yourself in knots trying to diagnose. It could all be in your head, it could be the larger diameter tyres, it could be a software issue, it could be a CVT valve body issue, it could be a dirty throttle body, it could be a Friday afternoon build issue. Our 2023 is still factory like after 30000km but like any mechanical jalopy could crap itself tomorrow, I hope you find closure soon mate.
Already been to a dealer and got the “seems fine to me” comment, so here we are. Thanks for the comment.
@@roamingwithjoshahh…the good old “could not duplicate concern”.
I've seen issues with the transfer clutches, the forward clutch and the torque converters in OBs. Some of what you described could be attributed to those. Good luck.
Appreciate the tip!
Thank you for making this video. I was thinking of getting a wilderness but hesitant about getting an "offroad car" with a CVT transmission. Worse decision Subaru made putting a CVT trans in their vehicles. I think I should look into a midsize truck for my needs.
Thanks for the comment!
There is an aftermarket CVT "Anti wobble" rubber insert that is pretty easy to install. See other youtube videos about it.
Awesome! Thanks for the comment!
I know you’re frustrated dude, but Subaru has an incredible warranty. I’d definitely give them the opportunity to try and make this right before taking a beating trading it in. And selling it knowing it has all these issues isn’t really an option as you’ll just be passing that on to the next guy.
I’d reach out to the dealer and possibly SoA to see if they can get it escalated to a manager to spend some time driving it with you to get to the bottom of it.
Some of what you’re describing almost seems like excessive NVH maybe from a broken transmission mount? I dunno man. Hope you get it sorted!
I'm not going to bail that quick. I've learned a ton from the comments and that's the exact reason I made this video. The community is super helpful, often times more than the dealer. Thanks for the comment!
Valid issue points. I love the Subaru's I've had over the years. But in my case. the newest year and model I've had is 2016 Outback, I bought new. I've own 7 of them over the years. But I won't buy another Subaru intel they change the drive train. If you google 2024 Outback issues. You will find, it's reliable, isn't there in the newest outback model. There are a lot of complaints and you're not alone. I'm a Subi fan. But I know when the jig is up. And take a break from the unreliability they are putting owners through. My suggestions will differ from your own. Either help what you have or make a change. Will keep watching.
Appreciate the input!
@@roamingwithjosh ruclips.net/video/Xwj2K7rmc4Q/видео.html
2 sets of Nitto tires on my truck gradually had a rougher ride with mileage. 3 of tge first set, tyen 2 more of the 2nd set ended up with broken steel belts. Warranty was the onlybreason I got a 2nd set. After the 2nd onnI just spent the money on some BF Goodrich's. I won't buy Nitto tires anymore. Just a possibility.
You're the second person who has mentioned this and I greatly appreciate that because I honestly never considered it once.
Mines in the shop at 18k on a 21 uper oil pan leaks on the 2.4. They hope to have it fixed in under 5 weeks. My 70 year old mother has gone through 3 cvts in her 2014 that has 79k.. Local dealer does life time powertrain on the cars they sell.
Great info. Sorry to hear about all the troubles!
Does the forester or crosstrek have these same symptoms?
Not entirely sure
Now that you mention it
my 2024 OBW has a mild shutter when stoping . I think the transmission is uncoupling. its not a problem.
That's what I've learned from the comments. I appreciate the input!
I have a 23 crosstrek. No turbo though so can't really compare(wilderness has a turbo, right?). I will say that when I'm coming up to a stop light and hit around 1500 rpm the car "down shifts" causing a weird stutter. Someone was telling me that was a "feature". I've had a toyota with a cvt and never experienced that before. I'm at 25k miles now and have gotten used to it and i haven't had any other issues. fingers crossed!
Hopefully you never have any issues at all and I appreciate the comment!
Same on a 2023 Outback limited at 80-85 MPH
I’ve started to have power steering issue with my 22 OBW. At one point I had a stutter right after shifting into reverse, but that’s the only trans issue.
I appreciate it!
I’ve experienced or noticed my newer wilderness with a slight “ticking” noise after cold start up but last for about 1-2 minutes and it’s intermittent but noticed it after 1000 miles but before that I have no idea since it was colder outside and I wasn’t next to my car while it was warming up
Appreciate the input!
This channel goes through such an insane number of vehicles. Just scrolling through the last few years alone, there's a 2021 gladiator, a 2022 Subaru outback wilderness, a used lexus GX460, a 2022 sprinter, a 2022 ram power wagon, a 2024 outback wilderness (seemingly replaced mostly because the new model had a heated steering wheel and better sound system?!), a 2024 ford raptor. None of these vehicles are cheap to begin with and then they all get massively expensive off road modifications and camping builds. I've little doubt the issues described in this video will eventually be used as justification for trading in another like-new vehicle chasing the next big thing. This is honestly bonkers to me, I'd love to know your income and how much negative equity you're rolling into these loans. Even if you have like a $400k software engineer income, spending like this has got to be hard to maintain
Thanks for the comment!
trust fund babies have it easy my G
I’d like to see Court in the new Land Cruiser, thinking I’m going to rest the Jeep and the Rapt for a while and do a build on a LC
She loves her defender and I don't think I could pry it out of her hands if I tried. I would love to do an 80 series build one day...
@@roamingwithjosh hard to complain about the defender. Im with you on the 80 series.
I’ve had for a month some shuttering at light acceleration. But what really bothers me is the high idle 1500 rpm if the oil yes oil temperature is not over 170 degrees it’s like every time I go somewhere I have to wait for it to come down to 1000 or 700 rpm
I deal with the same thing and I personally stopped caring about waiting for the RPMs to drop after the oil temp is above 100 - 120 degrees. When I cold start it in the morning, the RPMs drop after it reaches 90 - 100 degrees, so to me, it’s good to go once it’s at those lower temps. Sometimes the RPMs drop immediately when it’s below 170 and sometimes it doesn’t, very odd. Now I just throw it into gear and they drop immediately and drives just fine. Don’t see a point in waiting for the oil temp to raise when it’s going to raise right back up after about 2 minutes of driving.
Many of us have wondered about the high idle and what to do. Personally I just go for it.
I do the same thing.
Exactly same problems with my My 2024 Outback Wilderness with 12k miles. I notice the problem with “hunting gear” only happens on hot weather, same for a “legging” acceleration.
With the AC running and a turbo hot weather takes a toll on all turbos
I have a 2024 OBW I bought in February I have 24k miles on it and I have felt all of these problems at different times but I don’t know if it’s worth giving it up yet or how much money I’ll loose if I give it up.
Check the follow up video for more info!
Hey Josh....Not bashing Subaru either, but honestly you should of purchased a 4Runner 5th generation which is already set up and then you could set it up like your GX460. The 5th Generation has a solid 5-speed transmission and solid engine. Again not knocking Subaru, but it's drivetrain wasn't designed to handle up grades. No offense, but quite wasting your money on the Suburu platform and go with reliability (Toyota). Sure no one is perfect but the 4Runner has been solid for a long time and if you got the money 🤑💰 put your investment in something that's tried a true. Land cruiser, 4Runner, GX 460 2010 to 2023 or you could go with the 70 series like they wheel in Australia 5-speed clutch transmission and solid deasil engine. The UN and Australia, Africa and Europeen nations by tons of them. Theirs a huge 4x4 community in Australia that runs the 70 to 72 generation 4x4 trucks and UTES with boat loads of excessaries and products to cater the overlanding community. If Suburu want to get in the game, like overlanding, they need to get away from the grocery getter wagon and do a complete overhaul on drivetrain which in my opinion needs a serious upgrade. They need a different engine platform and a real transmission to do what you want with it in the overlanding market. Again and no disrespect or anything like that, but ditch the Suburu and go Land cruiser, 5th generation 4Runner no offense to the other generations, and GX 460. I'll trade gas mileage for reliability any day of the week period and I can say that because I had a 2019 Limited Suburu Outback that I bought brand new and ditched it or traded it in with only 2336 miles on it to the Toyota dealership and purchased a new TRD Off-road 2019 for $42,500. Now I'm running the GX 460 platform which is basically a 4Runner/FJ platform. Loved the 4Runner but my wife didn't like the height because she has health problems. Anyways you get the Big Picture! Put your investment in something solid for your overlanding adventures not Suburu. 😊😊😊
I totally agree and I love my GX460, it's such a solid truck with zero issues. The Subaru has been a fun car for me and I really do enjoy it, I just don't know if I'll keep it for much longer.
I've been having that exact same braking issue since I drove away from the dealer iny 2024 XT. The dealer can't reproduce the issue so I just have to deal with it I suppose
That's exactly what I'm being told. Thanks for the input!
Go back completely stock and see if it’s better.
Thanks!
Have the service department take a look and provide a diagnosis?
“Seems fine to me” is what I got.
Honda makes the best CVT transmittion's period, subaru needs to team up with Honda to have honda make their CVT's.
Thanks!
Anyone else have issues with headlights blinding other drivers? I can drive this thing at night without people flashing me to turn my brights off… but they’re never on
lolol yes, It happens to me ofter. It's a gift and a curse.
Take your car to a tire shop and get the tires rebalanced and check the alignment.
And don't just do a basic rebalance, do a "road force" balance.
The stutter stop is the "fake cvt gear ratios" downshifting. A "normally programmed" CVT would just infinity ratio down without the stutter, but USA people don't like the way CVTs work, so they use the fake gear ratios due to customer complaints.
Our 2024 OW only does the stutter during certain repeatable situations, like really slow braking. You might experiment with your brake style and see.
Sell it Josh and get a Toyota hybrid Rav 4 for wife daily and storm chasing. You would build it out and it would look 🔥
I'm not going to tell you that I have not considered that more than once....
When you’re going to 80-85 and the rpm’s are fluctuating, have you tried taking your foot off of the accelerator for a second or two then reapplying?
2. My 16 legacy does the same thing you’re describing coming to a stop. Seems to happen around 4th gear and it’s been doing it for a long time now. Sort of stutters or binds as it’s stopping.
I have tried and it settles in after, but it will start doing it again after a while. I appreciate the input!
I have a 23' i love it. Just under 18000 miles
Nice!
I purchased a Subaru legacy limited now has 140k no issues