This is the most honest answer I have ever heard about this topic on RUclips. More people need to see this & think critically before making vehicle upgrade decisions. So true that many are doing upgrades just to follow along with the hype. Well done with the video, sir!
I mean, the wilderness IS lifted compared to standard outbacks (which already have really good clearance for a crossover to begin with). The point of the wilderness to me is it comes pre-equipped with a lot of the lightweight mods that soft roaders might be interested in, tires, lift, recovery points, etc. I think the subaru engineers did a really, really solid job of designing a vehicle with significant capability that retains car-like driveability, making major alterations risks throwing off the balance that was struck. If what the wilderness offers out of the box isn't enough, you might want to consider that you may be better suited to something like a 4runner. The main softroading mod that I think the wilderness is missing out of the box is underbody protection. And to be fair it is something that Subaru was optioning up until the Ukraine war disrupted supply chains
Great take. I was considering lifting and getting wheels/tires but I’m just going to add cross bars for stand up paddle boards and factory wheels wrapped with some Falken Wildpeak AT3.
Yes!!! this right here!! I had an Anderson 2" lift and after a few months i took it off and am clearing the trails plenty without it. what's also an option is aftermarket suspension (B16s from Bilstein) on it as you retain the OEM geometry and still can get way more out of your suspension with a fraction of the price. Skid plates are an absolute must thoght and i love my Anderson Fabs.
Thanks for making this Josh. After watching loads of youtube videos (yours included) I decided to purchase a 22 Subaru OBW last July and held off on doing any kind of modifications and kept it stock. I'm now set on upgrading wheels and tires and maybe some other lite upgrades. I appreciate you making these kinds of vids, helps someone like me to really think about what I need and don't need to do to my OBW.
Thank you for making this video. I think you addressed all the necessary information and how it affects the car. I added the Rallitek 1.5” lift with springs to help with the sag when loaded up. Wheel and tires were also changed, which I love, but my MPG has definitely taken a hit.
Ideally you would want to go with a custom aftermarket strut for your loaded weight issue. But whatever is working for you. The advantage of a custom springed and valved strut is that you still have the maximum height and articulation while comfortably being able to drive on road and trail. The downside is that it is probably gonna be significantly more expensive than putting in spacers.
*I saw that 5" lift from Anderson Fabrication Designs (AFD) and it was NUTS!! Super Overkill to me. One thing that most Outback owners need to know is the more lift you do the more stress you put on the axles.*
The idea and concept is super rad, my concern is how many people will see that and want to do the same thing which is the wrong thing to do to this vehicle.
@@roamingwithjoshCould you explain why it’s the wrong thing to do with this vehicle? Currently in the market and looking at either an outback Wilderness or the new Tacoma TrailHunter.
Thanks for this video. It's helpful to hear from people who've been there and done that on why it's not always great to go there and do that. 🙂 On all of the things you did to modify your Outback, I'll say that there are three kinds of people in the world: those who love the arts, those who love the sciences, and those who love both. I think this last group is among the rarest. Being a photographer and videographer, I dare say you're a member of this third community. While we find some of the greatest joy in life because we indulge our interests in all the universe has to offer, we also tend to suffer from GAS--gear acquisition syndrome. We know that we need specially engineered tools, whether we make them ourselves or buy them from others, in order to carry out specific steps in processes that let us create our art. This means constantly experimenting and buying new bits and bobs (which are often unavoidably expensive, since they have to serve purposes in both art and science) to make what we imagine a reality. All that's to say that, like it or not, you're probably going to struggle with GAS the rest of your life. But, at least your legacy will be a body of work by which to be remembered. So, welcome to leaving your mark on the world! 😊
That was the best comment I've ever read. Probably the best definition of myself and others that could have been put into written word. Thank you for that!
Welcome to Az! Thank for the honest review. Still deciding on a Wilderness, building an older Dodge 4x4 truck or getting a used but newer Nissan, Toyota or Ford 4x4 midsize platform. I am up at edge of the Tonto National Forest so maybe I see you sometime. Thanks again for sharing!
great video thanks, I am a new subaru wilderness owner actually just picked it up 4 hours ago a 2024 and I love it I am pretty much going to keep it stock but might do wheels and tires later. I have had rock crawlers and jeep wrangle and in the early days a toyota land cruiser. I picked this subaru so i can still do light off roading, I love camping and hiking but comfort too now that I am a old geezer LOL, and the wilderness fits the bill like you said just got to know its limitations. Keep the videos coming love them I am a new subscriber. Enjoy tucson I have friends down there and its beautiful there great place for outdoors stuff.
Solid commentary; appreciate it. I’ve got the Ironman on a 2020 Foz so that I get a bit more clearance for some lighter West Texas back country. I was very pleased with it and have 10.5 clearance through the centerline. That said, to your point, it’s a tire game first and everything else secondary. Problem for me is that I can’t find LT’s w/ a 10 ply rating and that’s the biggest weakness on the build for my use-case. Cheers,
Right on! I appreciate the comment. The BFG's have done me well in a lot of tough conditions. Not sure what tire you run, but I would give them a look and see what you think.
We just bought a 2023 OB Wilderness and one of the biggest draws was how capable and great it looked from the factory. All we really need to do is accessorize. Crossbarrs, ski rack, tint windows. I am looking at getting a Yakima Lock n Load Platform roof rack because we drive across country at least once a year at go to the outer banks. When we're at the beach we drive onto the beach with our stuff so I want to be able to keep a decent sized cooler, canopy, etc.and put all of our cargo on the roof when we drive across county so we have the interior room for our family of 4 and our two medium sized dogs. I also Kayak fish, so I'll use the OB to haul that. I'll eventually get a 5th gen 4runner to modify, but I love the OBW stock, it's amazing.
OBW is great car as a stock vehicle. I would add skid plates and rocker panel or nerf bar to make sure that no damage off road. Modifying lift/suspension means unexpected ride experience (good or bad depends upon your expectations). For me, I needed a proper 4WD with locker experience so I sold OBW w/o mods and added extra few 1000 dollars to get a proper 4x4 with lockers vehicle. It is worth it. Full warranty and great experience. I wouldn't modify OBW as it is a great vehicle as a stock.
I would agree with your statement entirely. The vehicle has many other limiting factors and adding a suspension doesn't solve those issues. Thanks for the comment!
Your the only one saying it! And it’s so true. I literally installed 225/60R18 Falken Wildpeak Trails today! Stock onyx size on oem wheels. All 5. Because the stock tires are not great at anything but ok at everything. Other than that I’m staying stock. Oh I did put Primitive skids package on. Bought the car to use for daily dad duties. And for going to my pew pew matches. They are usually off the beaten path. Wanted the capability without sacrificing road comforts. I have the Jeep for that. If you can only have one car, for all the things, then a 1/2ton truck can tow, off road, and do the daily duties. My situation was different. I have the dually diesel for towing. The Jeep for heavier off road days, and now the Outback for the day to day and the trips between the others. Great channel! Great video! 👍 👍
Thanks for this. I got a 2024 OBW yesterday and thought about lifting it but TBH it would mostly be for snow so I'm probably better with just getting a Torq locker and snow tires.
Hey Josh, love your channel, great content and info. I agree with you that lifting an outback is overkill in most cases. I have a 23 wilderness and just added rallitek skid plates and know I want to add larger tires ( 245’s KO’s) what is the best set up tire / wheel set up with least amount of modifications. I here that some set ups will rub.
Hey, Matt! Appreciate the kind words. My set up never rubbed and I had the 245 KO2's prior to the lift. I used LP aventure LP7 wheels with a +35 offset I believe. That set up never rubbed a single time and got us through some pretty tough terrain on multiple occasions.
The only thing I did was upgrade my tires. I did think about a lift at first but I don’t plan on going into the areas jeeps or 4Runners go. I do get muddy though. I have had water come over my hood once.
I'm just starting to watch this video. I haven't heard the opinion yet. I'm going to state at the outset that I have a 22 Outback Wilderness, and I think the number one mod, before you do ANYTHING else, assuming you even need this, is new wheels and tires. I wouldn't even consider a lift, until I put on 245's with a wider rim and reassessed. and this is what I actually did. I have Falken Trail AT's in the 245/65/17 NON LT crossover version (this size has two choices) wrapped around a 40MM offset (you gotta do the offset close to right to keep a wider tire centered in the well) Motegi MR139 7.5X17. On paper this gives me a half inch more clearance (inch taller tire), but out in the world this gives me 3/4" improvement in overall car height and clearance, because the stock tires had a design that sags a bit on load, and the Falkens sag much less. So I have the half inch better spec, and a stiffer sidewall giving me a bit more too. And 3/4" may not seem like much. But honestly on top of my factory 9.7" cl;earance that gives me 10." of clearance measured fairly. A lot of guys claim they have 11". But I doubt it. They are just adding up components on paper. We Wilderness who put on larger stiff AT's are at a bit over 10" of HONEST clearance. And is that enough. Well, it is for me, for now, and I go over some rough roads now and then. I pick my lines well, and I am carefull, but confident. I do have the STOCK option full skid plates from front to rear, which may not be the hardest, but I think this is an advantage that is best suited for another discussion, but they DO fit the car well, which keeps as much of that clearance useable as possible. And I feel like if I did need more I would have to do the whole undercarriage shimming and lowering as well which just seems like a lot of work for a car that is meeting my needs. An inch taller tire doesn't seem like much of an upgrade, but I notice a difference. I can easily drive over curb sized obstacles much more easily, the roughness of terrain seems much less bumpy inside the cab. The need to air down, seems more like an option than a necessity. That is just me, for MY needs, and everyone is different. Native Nomads challenges his vehicle more than I have mine, but that is only because I haven't made the choice to get out there to that degree yet. I am still in the planning phases and local testing and it is on my bucket list to do some longer trips that are more rough and remote. That being said, I bought this car to TAKE ME PLACES, not to compete in rock crawling. I don't WANT to tear it up, and I look for roads that will take me somewhere amazing that a car couldn't get to, but that is still safe and reasonable for my crossover. And I have confidence that if I run into a surprise bad spot or a washed out place, a landslid place, that I can pick around it, or find an alternate. But my goal is not to LOOK for roads that are scraping up my underarmor for miles on end. If that is you, perhaps a lift is a good thing. And I'll be honest, I wouldn't mind haveing another inch or two. But my point is, do more with less if you can. 10" of HONEST clearance, without a differential pumkin to worry about, is nothing to scoff at. You can go on a lot of trails with this setup slightly tire modded from stock. OK now I am gonna see what Native Nomad thinks. Seeya later.
I know it sounded stupid but being honest here. Initially was looking out Forester SJG to replace my SH9 but then since i've been owning different variant of Forester for past 10 years, i thought try out Outback. And my mistake. It was great but my only complaint is the driver height POV. It is not as high "command" as Forester so i thought raise the suspension 2" should help. And that is my only reason of wanted to add
Amazingly honest and fantastic reviews based on your experiences!!! Loving it!!!! Thank you so much for such a nice clip! I would only get another set of wheels with tires for winter use and skid plates. What would you recommend for RTT set up?
thanks for the kind words! I would probably try to keep it as light as possible for an RTT. Depending on how many people you have in your family would make a huge difference.
I had a 22 OBW here with ironman lift and plus size tires, it ride great and go anywhere i wanted to go! And most of time i go along with my 4runner friends i can even do some blue trails without any damage. 5 inch lift for the OBW LOL, to me it just a marketing. that lift will destroy the entire geometry of the Outback and lose most of benefit from the car. And you are right, If people want rock climbing they should look for other cars. unless people want to create a monster out of it for show!
I am disabled person who would like to get out on back roads, forest service roads, easy roads for photography purposes. I can't hike much so car is the way to get closer to nature. Thinking of Forestor as less length than the Outback. What do you think? Thanks.
It doesn't sound like you plan to push the car too far past it's limit so I would say that either one would work great. Go with the one you like the most. I will say the outback has a larger cargo area which for me is very important.
While I respect your opinion, the ironman lift helps a lot. 1.5" is a lot. I agree, 99 percent of people don't need a lift at all, but there were so many times I wouldn't have scraped a rock if i had an extra inch, but thats also why i have full skids front to back. I'm in the process of adapting quick disconnects for the stock sway bars, reinforcing the strut towers and installing lockers. I'm never going to be able to follow a Jeep or 4runner on harder trails, but I just want more assurance when doing blue trails. Being on the east coast there lots of hidden suprises inside mud holes and bigger ruts. This isnt the Moab Desert where you can literally just see everything. I've also been of the mentality that if it breaks just fix it. I always bring spare parts and tools for harder trails. I feel that once you got your Lexus you've seen the limitations on the Outback Platform, but part of the fun is pushing limits. What Anderson Design was a proof of concept, and I applaud them. But as always thanks for making these videos Josh and Happy Trails.
I agree with your points. Only thing I would say is that the outback community has less of the "fix it yourself" mentality and a lot of people just don't have those skills, especially bush style on the trail type fixes. What I've always loved about the wilderness is that it makes easier trails harder and takes a lot more skill to get your OBW through tough terrain then a jeep on 37's. Being from the east coast, I get your point about the mud holes and uncertainties of unmaintained roads. I also applaud innovation, but that innovation can give the wrong person a sense of security that doesn't truly exist and a false sense of reality, but I guess that's just the genius behind marketing. Thanks for the comment and thoughtful response!
Spacer lift seems ideal based on the hight being the only real benefit of a lift on this car. Id say rock rails, skids, tires, and maybe the spacer lift is ideal. I do agree that a lift is pretty optional. Im not an engineer but i suspect that the longer struts will probably be adding a similar leverage disadvantage to the towers as a 2 inch spacer would. Either way the drive wheels are farther from the body meaning more leverage against the mechanicals. Thats my thoughts anyway.
I agree. Lifting for bigger tires on a fully independent suspension equipped unibody vehicle is the biggest lie. It cannot be done without any form of cutting and banging. Cutting isn't the only caveat, however; gearing is.
Great information coming from somebody who has lived it. Most people won’t admit they wasted money on their build. Good luck in Tucson. Better get the garage air conditioned there.
There's nothing wrong with using a spacer lift on a Subaru. One of the biggest reasons for using suspension lifts is to get more travel which even you yourself explained is very limited on Subarus. A stiffer spring rate may be right for those carrying heavy stuff with their Subie or towing a small trailer of some sort. But otherwise, ditching OEM suspension presents new challenges. And ironman lifts are fine I guess, but they're probably the worst possible option out there. They're cheap for a reason. I've physically seen severe bushing failure in the rears which causes massive sag (I've seen it in as little as 6 months.) The average person also doesn't have the know-how to dial in, maintain, or rebuild a coilover suspension. The majority of Subaru owners should be using spacer lifts.
Best is a hard answer. What I can say is that I loved my KO2's but they are heavy and impact gas mileage. The nomad grapplers I had on my black on also worked really well and were lighter. It's just a preference.
Thanks so much for the video. Just subscribed to the channel. The only reason I want to possibly alter the suspension is due to payload (roof and cargo) to prevent rear sag. Is overload suspension essentially the same as a lift? It likely will alter the factory perfection, correct?
Thanks for the comment! I'm not sure which overload springs you're talking about, but they may lift the rear of the vehicle. It will definitely take away from the smoothness of the ride, but will prevent the sag when you're loaded down.
If you want to avoid lifting, you can try Ralitek rear springs. They will stiffen the rear and add 3/4" of height without the need for a lift. Here is the link adventurerigshop.com/products/3-4-rear-overload-springs-fits-22-23-subaru-outback-wilderness
@@RayRayLem what’s the link for the items. I ended up having issues with Ralitek springs as it was first recommended to only change the back springs. Since their springs are taller than stock, it is now recommended to change all four springs otherwise you will encounter issues with the sprigs falling out of the perch and damaging the front suspension as mine was.
Hi Josh, i have a long list of places that i want to visit in the southwest (like white pocket, cathedral valley, canyons in grand staircase-escalante, ah-she-sle-pah just to name a few), based on your experience exploring the area would you say stock OBW can make it there or something like a 4runner/wrangler would be required? Thank you in advance.
The wilderness will make it, but it will require less effort in one of the other vehicles. Most roads through there will be gravel, but you may encounter an obstacle that will require more precise driving and proper wheel placement if you're in an Outback.
Josh i lifted my 2023 outback onyx ironman lift 2" and i tried 245/65/17 tire from 225/65/17 bf goodrich but there was rubbing on the front what will i do tnx for your advice
Josh i brought it to the shop and fitted the tire of 245/65/17 and told me that the plastic needs to be cut and heated to avoid rubbing.Does the offset of the wheel which is 40 causes the rubbing? Does warranty will be affected? Thanks.
Hey man! Thanks for the insight! I was wondering though… I have a Rigd UltraSwing with all of the accessories (table and sideback) and I have a bike rack, and I can tell that the weight is causing the back of the car to sag some. Would you recommend me getting a spec-c suspension just to help offset that extra weight? Or is it ok for the car to sag some? I know you have an UltraSwing, but you said you wouldn’t get the lift if you could do over again, so I’m curious. Thanks!
the rear overload springs are definitely a must with the ultraswing. I wouldn't lift it I could go back, but I also wouldn't get an ultraswing again either so I probably wouldn't need it. Although I love the ultraswing, I would just prefer to be lighter if I could do it over. If you end up getting a lift then email info@adventurerigshop.com and ask them what kind of deal they can give you.
A hardy tire made a lot of difference to me and I didn't need rims with just slight size up to a 235, running the Wildpeak AT3W and I think it runs a bit big also and It looks better and is a beast. Other than my air intake, I need nothing else to hang with my friends in there Cherokee Trail Hawks, stock wranglers, Bronco Sports Badlands and such. But they cant touch me in the canyons lol.
You mention Ironman and Flatout, saying those are the only two options for a suspension lift? What about RaceWorks? Supposedly, they’ve had a lot of success in racing applications. As well, the images on their site and the few reviews I’ve seen seen suggest they’re offering a very high quality product. I’m also curious about the claim that Subaru has engineered the ride of the Outback to such a refined degree. I don’t have a Wilderness, but my Onyx reacts sharply to bumps and wallows in prolonged turns when the suspension is compressed. Truthfully, I like the character Subaru has engineered into their vehicles. At the same time, they fitted good enough components and invested sufficiently in R&D to sell a profitable product to customers. They’re not doing anything magical. If someone wants the performance of the Subaru drivetrain, but also recognizes deficiencies in how an Outback handles varied terrain, I’m not sure what options they have other than to upgrade the suspension. Definitely interested in your thoughts.
He doesn't exactly work on his own cars, and he's on the road a lot which is why I can see that it can be frustrating to break stuff. The lift does help a lot and you're not reducing the overall lifespan of the CV axles by that much with a mild lift. Keeping stock offset and going larger tires with the lift will get you out of most sticky situations. I keep up with stock 4runners with tires in almost every situation I've been in. That being said please don't get KO2's. Falken Wildpeak AT3w's at most.
@@Hublot1 I run Nitto Nomad Grapplers 235/65 17s with a +35 offset and a Nameless strut tower brace. Very happy with how it performs, aside from the suspension issues I mentioned. Josh is, of course, entitled to his opinion. And I have no doubt that opinion was developed through a wealth of experience. I just wonder why there’s such a large community of people lifting their Outback’s if there is nothing to be gained. Is it really people spending money for bragging rights and to show off?
@@jamespotts8372 we run them because it actually helps. Every inch matters when it comes to offroading. As the outback already has poor approach angle and break over getting that tiny bit of lift can be the difference between turning back or making it to your camp site. He is also more of an overlander/hiker than a hardcore offroader which is understandable. If your entire livelihood is based on having your vehicles up and running so you can travel and film, you don't want to worry about potential downtime and longevity issues.
There's a lot to unpack here so I'll try to keep it simple. I have never heard of raceworks, so they may be a solid option, but I'm not sure. My statement about Subaru designing the suspension was made due to the Wilderness model being a totally different style of vehicle for Subaru and I would assume that a company designing a new car platform and concept would take more into consideration then a company that sells lifts for all kinds of vehicles along with numerous other parts and gear. My mind tells me that focusing on a single product is easier then 600 products, but I could be wrong on that. This will be a blanket statement - There's a very small circle of people who push their outbacks to the limit and even a smaller group of those people know how to fix them in the event that something goes terribly wrong on the trail. The shirt and hat you wear on influenced by something, just like when people outfit their rigs, they've been influenced and taken input from others. Also, 98% of the people who own these cars don't take them anywhere the stock version couldn't go, they definitely look cooler doing it with a lift. It's a practicality issue and in my opinion most people put themselves at risk of warranty issues and CVT problems when they size up their tires and wheels and add 2" of lift. If you're not pushing the limits, save your money and enjoy the ride. If you are pushing the limits, know what you're getting yourself into and learn how to get yourself out. Thanks for the conversation, fellas!
Thanks for the honesty. I was considering lifting my OBW, but purely for cosmetic reasons. I'm still waffling on it, but it's nice to hear it clearly stated that there is practically zero performance-based reason to do it. I kinda suspected as much, but your experience with it helps. Much appreciated.
When I lifted my 2015 Forester XT, driving dynamics were greatly affected. It handled terribly. When I lifted my 2019 Honda Passport 3.5” it handled better. One thing to keep in mind is that my 2015 Forester XT was based on the Impreza platform and it was already a lifted version of it. The Passport was built on the Honda light truck platform, so there’s just more play with tolerances and the subframe drop keeps the axle angles happier.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring i love your content!!! I will keep my wilderness stock cept for more protection. I am not more intelligent than the subi engineers. Altho, after driving a few hundred miles now, it does feel like it has a ton of body roll, just like my f150.
This has really gotten me thinking about lifting my 2020 Outback (premium, not wilderness sadly). I want to chase that slightly more aggressive look the Onyx and Wilderness trims go for, but definitely understand it’s probably not a massive performance boost for the basic model I have.
The stock Wilderness is 9 times out of 10 a better vehicle than modded. People ruin them with poor tire choices, messed up wheel offsets, scuffed suspension spacers, etc. The factory version of the vehicle is ideal for it's intended purpose. It's an all-weather highway cruiser with light offroad capability. Subaru has nailed that. Trying to make it more offroad oriented has missed the entire point of the car. That owner should be driving a 4Runner or something. I cringe every time I see KO2s on a Subaru.
I'm a KO2 on a subaru guy and I get your point, probably not the best tire choice for this vehicle, but at the time I had much less experience with the car and went with what I know. People have to learn and that takes time. Thanks for the comment!
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the most honest answer I have ever heard about this topic on RUclips. More people need to see this & think critically before making vehicle upgrade decisions. So true that many are doing upgrades just to follow along with the hype. Well done with the video, sir!
I totally agree! Thanks for the kind words!
I mean, the wilderness IS lifted compared to standard outbacks (which already have really good clearance for a crossover to begin with). The point of the wilderness to me is it comes pre-equipped with a lot of the lightweight mods that soft roaders might be interested in, tires, lift, recovery points, etc. I think the subaru engineers did a really, really solid job of designing a vehicle with significant capability that retains car-like driveability, making major alterations risks throwing off the balance that was struck. If what the wilderness offers out of the box isn't enough, you might want to consider that you may be better suited to something like a 4runner.
The main softroading mod that I think the wilderness is missing out of the box is underbody protection. And to be fair it is something that Subaru was optioning up until the Ukraine war disrupted supply chains
Great take. I was considering lifting and getting wheels/tires but I’m just going to add cross bars for stand up paddle boards and factory wheels wrapped with some Falken Wildpeak AT3.
Very thoughtful comment and extremely helpful to a lot of us. Much appreciated.
I just got my 2024 Outback Wilderness. Love it just the way it is. It's my road trip car, and car camping ride.
Right on! Congrats
Yes!!! this right here!! I had an Anderson 2" lift and after a few months i took it off and am clearing the trails plenty without it. what's also an option is aftermarket suspension (B16s from Bilstein) on it as you retain the OEM geometry and still can get way more out of your suspension with a fraction of the price. Skid plates are an absolute must thoght and i love my Anderson Fabs.
Right on! I appreciate the comment!
Thanks for making this Josh. After watching loads of youtube videos (yours included) I decided to purchase a 22 Subaru OBW last July and held off on doing any kind of modifications and kept it stock. I'm now set on upgrading wheels and tires and maybe some other lite upgrades. I appreciate you making these kinds of vids, helps someone like me to really think about what I need and don't need to do to my OBW.
Appreciate the comment and good luck on the build!
Thank you for making this video. I think you addressed all the necessary information and how it affects the car. I added the Rallitek 1.5” lift with springs to help with the sag when loaded up. Wheel and tires were also changed, which I love, but my MPG has definitely taken a hit.
Right on! Everyone has a decision to make and it sounds like you thought that one out!
Ideally you would want to go with a custom aftermarket strut for your loaded weight issue. But whatever is working for you. The advantage of a custom springed and valved strut is that you still have the maximum height and articulation while comfortably being able to drive on road and trail. The downside is that it is probably gonna be significantly more expensive than putting in spacers.
*I saw that 5" lift from Anderson Fabrication Designs (AFD) and it was NUTS!! Super Overkill to me. One thing that most Outback owners need to know is the more lift you do the more stress you put on the axles.*
The idea and concept is super rad, my concern is how many people will see that and want to do the same thing which is the wrong thing to do to this vehicle.
@@roamingwithjoshCould you explain why it’s the wrong thing to do with this vehicle? Currently in the market and looking at either an outback Wilderness or the new Tacoma TrailHunter.
Thanks for this video. It's helpful to hear from people who've been there and done that on why it's not always great to go there and do that. 🙂
On all of the things you did to modify your Outback, I'll say that there are three kinds of people in the world: those who love the arts, those who love the sciences, and those who love both. I think this last group is among the rarest. Being a photographer and videographer, I dare say you're a member of this third community. While we find some of the greatest joy in life because we indulge our interests in all the universe has to offer, we also tend to suffer from GAS--gear acquisition syndrome. We know that we need specially engineered tools, whether we make them ourselves or buy them from others, in order to carry out specific steps in processes that let us create our art. This means constantly experimenting and buying new bits and bobs (which are often unavoidably expensive, since they have to serve purposes in both art and science) to make what we imagine a reality.
All that's to say that, like it or not, you're probably going to struggle with GAS the rest of your life. But, at least your legacy will be a body of work by which to be remembered. So, welcome to leaving your mark on the world! 😊
That was the best comment I've ever read. Probably the best definition of myself and others that could have been put into written word. Thank you for that!
Welcome to Az! Thank for the honest review. Still deciding on a Wilderness, building an older Dodge 4x4 truck or getting a used but newer Nissan, Toyota or Ford 4x4 midsize platform. I am up at edge of the Tonto National Forest so maybe I see you sometime. Thanks again for sharing!
Right on! Would love to get back to Tonto, one of my favorite places.
Thanks!
Much appreciated!
great video thanks, I am a new subaru wilderness owner actually just picked it up 4 hours ago a 2024 and I love it I am pretty much going to keep it stock but might do wheels and tires later. I have had rock crawlers and jeep wrangle and in the early days a toyota land cruiser. I picked this subaru so i can still do light off roading, I love camping and hiking but comfort too now that I am a old geezer LOL, and the wilderness fits the bill like you said just got to know its limitations. Keep the videos coming love them I am a new subscriber. Enjoy tucson I have friends down there and its beautiful there great place for outdoors stuff.
Thank you, sir! Appreciate the comment and the subscription!
Solid commentary; appreciate it. I’ve got the Ironman on a 2020 Foz so that I get a bit more clearance for some lighter West Texas back country. I was very pleased with it and have 10.5 clearance through the centerline.
That said, to your point, it’s a tire game first and everything else secondary. Problem for me is that I can’t find LT’s w/ a 10 ply rating and that’s the biggest weakness on the build for my use-case. Cheers,
Right on! I appreciate the comment. The BFG's have done me well in a lot of tough conditions. Not sure what tire you run, but I would give them a look and see what you think.
We just bought a 2023 OB Wilderness and one of the biggest draws was how capable and great it looked from the factory. All we really need to do is accessorize. Crossbarrs, ski rack, tint windows. I am looking at getting a Yakima Lock n Load Platform roof rack because we drive across country at least once a year at go to the outer banks. When we're at the beach we drive onto the beach with our stuff so I want to be able to keep a decent sized cooler, canopy, etc.and put all of our cargo on the roof when we drive across county so we have the interior room for our family of 4 and our two medium sized dogs. I also Kayak fish, so I'll use the OB to haul that. I'll eventually get a 5th gen 4runner to modify, but I love the OBW stock, it's amazing.
I'm with you on all of that! Can't wait for the new 4runner. Thanks for the comment!
OBW is great car as a stock vehicle. I would add skid plates and rocker panel or nerf bar to make sure that no damage off road. Modifying lift/suspension means unexpected ride experience (good or bad depends upon your expectations).
For me, I needed a proper 4WD with locker experience so I sold OBW w/o mods and added extra few 1000 dollars to get a proper 4x4 with lockers vehicle. It is worth it. Full warranty and great experience.
I wouldn't modify OBW as it is a great vehicle as a stock.
I would agree with your statement entirely. The vehicle has many other limiting factors and adding a suspension doesn't solve those issues. Thanks for the comment!
Your the only one saying it! And it’s so true. I literally installed 225/60R18 Falken Wildpeak Trails today! Stock onyx size on oem wheels. All 5. Because the stock tires are not great at anything but ok at everything. Other than that I’m staying stock. Oh I did put Primitive skids package on. Bought the car to use for daily dad duties. And for going to my pew pew matches. They are usually off the beaten path. Wanted the capability without sacrificing road comforts. I have the Jeep for that. If you can only have one car, for all the things, then a 1/2ton truck can tow, off road, and do the daily duties. My situation was different. I have the dually diesel for towing. The Jeep for heavier off road days, and now the Outback for the day to day and the trips between the others. Great channel! Great video! 👍 👍
Appreciate it and agree! Thanks for the comment!
Great Video Josh, you speak allot of sense with the knowledge you have.
👍
Appreciate it!
Thanks for your honesty. I wish you the best with your move save travels.
Thank you!
Thanks for this. I got a 2024 OBW yesterday and thought about lifting it but TBH it would mostly be for snow so I'm probably better with just getting a Torq locker and snow tires.
That's probably a good idea. Thanks for the comment!
Hey Josh, love your channel, great content and info. I agree with you that lifting an outback is overkill in most cases. I have a 23 wilderness and just added rallitek skid plates and know I want to add larger tires ( 245’s KO’s) what is the best set up tire / wheel set up with least amount of modifications. I here that some set ups will rub.
Hey, Matt! Appreciate the kind words. My set up never rubbed and I had the 245 KO2's prior to the lift. I used LP aventure LP7 wheels with a +35 offset I believe. That set up never rubbed a single time and got us through some pretty tough terrain on multiple occasions.
Thats what I will go with. Thanks for the help.
The only thing I did was upgrade my tires. I did think about a lift at first but I don’t plan on going into the areas jeeps or 4Runners go. I do get muddy though. I have had water come over my hood once.
LOL that sounds like an awesome time! Thanks for the comment!
24 outback wildness -i'm doing a 2in lift - just to make it a tad easier for me to get in and out of
I'm just starting to watch this video. I haven't heard the opinion yet. I'm going to state at the outset that I have a 22 Outback Wilderness, and I think the number one mod, before you do ANYTHING else, assuming you even need this, is new wheels and tires. I wouldn't even consider a lift, until I put on 245's with a wider rim and reassessed. and this is what I actually did. I have Falken Trail AT's in the 245/65/17 NON LT crossover version (this size has two choices) wrapped around a 40MM offset (you gotta do the offset close to right to keep a wider tire centered in the well) Motegi MR139 7.5X17. On paper this gives me a half inch more clearance (inch taller tire), but out in the world this gives me 3/4" improvement in overall car height and clearance, because the stock tires had a design that sags a bit on load, and the Falkens sag much less. So I have the half inch better spec, and a stiffer sidewall giving me a bit more too. And 3/4" may not seem like much. But honestly on top of my factory 9.7" cl;earance that gives me 10." of clearance measured fairly. A lot of guys claim they have 11". But I doubt it. They are just adding up components on paper. We Wilderness who put on larger stiff AT's are at a bit over 10" of HONEST clearance. And is that enough. Well, it is for me, for now, and I go over some rough roads now and then. I pick my lines well, and I am carefull, but confident. I do have the STOCK option full skid plates from front to rear, which may not be the hardest, but I think this is an advantage that is best suited for another discussion, but they DO fit the car well, which keeps as much of that clearance useable as possible. And I feel like if I did need more I would have to do the whole undercarriage shimming and lowering as well which just seems like a lot of work for a car that is meeting my needs. An inch taller tire doesn't seem like much of an upgrade, but I notice a difference. I can easily drive over curb sized obstacles much more easily, the roughness of terrain seems much less bumpy inside the cab. The need to air down, seems more like an option than a necessity. That is just me, for MY needs, and everyone is different. Native Nomads challenges his vehicle more than I have mine, but that is only because I haven't made the choice to get out there to that degree yet. I am still in the planning phases and local testing and it is on my bucket list to do some longer trips that are more rough and remote. That being said, I bought this car to TAKE ME PLACES, not to compete in rock crawling. I don't WANT to tear it up, and I look for roads that will take me somewhere amazing that a car couldn't get to, but that is still safe and reasonable for my crossover. And I have confidence that if I run into a surprise bad spot or a washed out place, a landslid place, that I can pick around it, or find an alternate. But my goal is not to LOOK for roads that are scraping up my underarmor for miles on end. If that is you, perhaps a lift is a good thing. And I'll be honest, I wouldn't mind haveing another inch or two. But my point is, do more with less if you can. 10" of HONEST clearance, without a differential pumkin to worry about, is nothing to scoff at. You can go on a lot of trails with this setup slightly tire modded from stock. OK now I am gonna see what Native Nomad thinks. Seeya later.
Right on! Appreciate the thorough comment as always!
I know it sounded stupid but being honest here.
Initially was looking out Forester SJG to replace my SH9 but then since i've been owning different variant of Forester for past 10 years, i thought try out Outback. And my mistake. It was great but my only complaint is the driver height POV. It is not as high "command" as Forester so i thought raise the suspension 2" should help. And that is my only reason of wanted to add
Understood
Great video!
Thank you!
Amazingly honest and fantastic reviews based on your experiences!!! Loving it!!!! Thank you so much for such a nice clip!
I would only get another set of wheels with tires for winter use and skid plates. What would you recommend for RTT set up?
thanks for the kind words! I would probably try to keep it as light as possible for an RTT. Depending on how many people you have in your family would make a huge difference.
@@roamingwithjosh 2 adults and 1 toddler.
Movin to Tucson, eh? It'll be good to see you around town and out in the dirt!
Likewise! Looking forward to it.
Whats the biggest tire wheel combo you can go, and stay stock. No lift. Offset, wheels tire width?
245/65/17 is your best bet with the factory wheel size.
I had a 22 OBW here with ironman lift and plus size tires, it ride great and go anywhere i wanted to go! And most of time i go along with my 4runner friends i can even do some blue trails without any damage.
5 inch lift for the OBW LOL, to me it just a marketing. that lift will destroy the entire geometry of the Outback and lose most of benefit from the car. And you are right, If people want rock climbing they should look for other cars. unless people want to create a monster out of it for show!
Agreed! The 5" lift is way too much, but what they did is a super cool concept and probably had a blast building it.
I am disabled person who would like to get out on back roads, forest service roads, easy roads for photography purposes. I can't hike much so car is the way to get closer to nature. Thinking of Forestor as less length than the Outback. What do you think? Thanks.
It doesn't sound like you plan to push the car too far past it's limit so I would say that either one would work great. Go with the one you like the most. I will say the outback has a larger cargo area which for me is very important.
S/O Anderson Design Fab for the OBW with a 4” lift and 31s
Absolutely!
Gawd, Josh! lol 😀 That intro!
lolol thanks!
While I respect your opinion, the ironman lift helps a lot. 1.5" is a lot. I agree, 99 percent of people don't need a lift at all, but there were so many times I wouldn't have scraped a rock if i had an extra inch, but thats also why i have full skids front to back. I'm in the process of adapting quick disconnects for the stock sway bars, reinforcing the strut towers and installing lockers. I'm never going to be able to follow a Jeep or 4runner on harder trails, but I just want more assurance when doing blue trails. Being on the east coast there lots of hidden suprises inside mud holes and bigger ruts. This isnt the Moab Desert where you can literally just see everything. I've also been of the mentality that if it breaks just fix it. I always bring spare parts and tools for harder trails. I feel that once you got your Lexus you've seen the limitations on the Outback Platform, but part of the fun is pushing limits. What Anderson Design was a proof of concept, and I applaud them.
But as always thanks for making these videos Josh and Happy Trails.
I agree with your points. Only thing I would say is that the outback community has less of the "fix it yourself" mentality and a lot of people just don't have those skills, especially bush style on the trail type fixes. What I've always loved about the wilderness is that it makes easier trails harder and takes a lot more skill to get your OBW through tough terrain then a jeep on 37's. Being from the east coast, I get your point about the mud holes and uncertainties of unmaintained roads. I also applaud innovation, but that innovation can give the wrong person a sense of security that doesn't truly exist and a false sense of reality, but I guess that's just the genius behind marketing. Thanks for the comment and thoughtful response!
Spacer lift seems ideal based on the hight being the only real benefit of a lift on this car. Id say rock rails, skids, tires, and maybe the spacer lift is ideal. I do agree that a lift is pretty optional.
Im not an engineer but i suspect that the longer struts will probably be adding a similar leverage disadvantage to the towers as a 2 inch spacer would. Either way the drive wheels are farther from the body meaning more leverage against the mechanicals. Thats my thoughts anyway.
Appreciate the input!
I agree. Lifting for bigger tires on a fully independent suspension equipped unibody vehicle is the biggest lie. It cannot be done without any form of cutting and banging. Cutting isn't the only caveat, however; gearing is.
Agreed. Thanks for the comment, Joe!
Great information coming from somebody who has lived it. Most people won’t admit they wasted money on their build. Good luck in Tucson. Better get the garage air conditioned there.
lolol No doubt! Thanks for the comment
There's nothing wrong with using a spacer lift on a Subaru. One of the biggest reasons for using suspension lifts is to get more travel which even you yourself explained is very limited on Subarus. A stiffer spring rate may be right for those carrying heavy stuff with their Subie or towing a small trailer of some sort. But otherwise, ditching OEM suspension presents new challenges. And ironman lifts are fine I guess, but they're probably the worst possible option out there. They're cheap for a reason. I've physically seen severe bushing failure in the rears which causes massive sag (I've seen it in as little as 6 months.) The average person also doesn't have the know-how to dial in, maintain, or rebuild a coilover suspension. The majority of Subaru owners should be using spacer lifts.
You're probably right about the lift not being the best option. However, where you are wrong is moving to tucson big mistake.
Thanks for the comment!
Question: Can 245's fit on a non lifted OBW?
sure can!
@@roamingwithjosh Thanks! Sticking with 17 wheels I'd assume?
@roaming with josh - What is the biggest/best wheel/tire combo I can use on my '23 OBX Wilderness without lifting, assuming I want to run BFG KO2's?
Best is a hard answer. What I can say is that I loved my KO2's but they are heavy and impact gas mileage. The nomad grapplers I had on my black on also worked really well and were lighter. It's just a preference.
Is the speedo off and were you able to correct it or just use GPS?
I never really tried to fix it, just remained mindful of my speed.
Thanks so much for the video. Just subscribed to the channel. The only reason I want to possibly alter the suspension is due to payload (roof and cargo) to prevent rear sag. Is overload suspension essentially the same as a lift? It likely will alter the factory perfection, correct?
Thanks for the comment! I'm not sure which overload springs you're talking about, but they may lift the rear of the vehicle. It will definitely take away from the smoothness of the ride, but will prevent the sag when you're loaded down.
I appreciate your videos. My outback wilderness is beginning to sag from frequently hauling heavy items. Do you not recommend a lift?
If you want to avoid lifting, you can try Ralitek rear springs. They will stiffen the rear and add 3/4" of height without the need for a lift. Here is the link adventurerigshop.com/products/3-4-rear-overload-springs-fits-22-23-subaru-outback-wilderness
@@roamingwithjosh on order
@@roamingwithjosh I added the Ralitek springs and now the outback wilderness has no sag, thanks.
I tow and the rear sagged on my OB. I added the inexpensive supersprings rubber inserts in the rear and it completely resolved the sag.
@@RayRayLem what’s the link for the items. I ended up having issues with Ralitek springs as it was first recommended to only change the back springs. Since their springs are taller than stock, it is now recommended to change all four springs otherwise you will encounter issues with the sprigs falling out of the perch and damaging the front suspension as mine was.
Hi Josh, i have a long list of places that i want to visit in the southwest (like white pocket, cathedral valley, canyons in grand staircase-escalante, ah-she-sle-pah just to name a few), based on your experience exploring the area would you say stock OBW can make it there or something like a 4runner/wrangler would be required?
Thank you in advance.
The wilderness will make it, but it will require less effort in one of the other vehicles. Most roads through there will be gravel, but you may encounter an obstacle that will require more precise driving and proper wheel placement if you're in an Outback.
Josh i lifted my 2023 outback onyx ironman lift 2" and i tried 245/65/17 tire from 225/65/17 bf goodrich but there was rubbing on the front what will i do tnx for your advice
Depends on how much rubbing. I would take it to a shop and have them look at it if you don't feel comfortable taking it on.
@@roamingwithjosh thanks
Josh i brought it to the shop and fitted the tire of 245/65/17 and told me that the plastic needs to be cut and heated to avoid rubbing.Does the offset of the wheel which is 40 causes the rubbing? Does warranty will be affected? Thanks.
I want to get a OBW in the future. I don't plan to mod it. I want one to be able to go a bit beyond the the trials. Nothing too crazy.
Awesome! Thanks for the comment!
@@roamingwithjosh Thank you for the video! It really helps reinforce my thoughts on modifications.
Hey man! Thanks for the insight! I was wondering though… I have a Rigd UltraSwing with all of the accessories (table and sideback) and I have a bike rack, and I can tell that the weight is causing the back of the car to sag some. Would you recommend me getting a spec-c suspension just to help offset that extra weight? Or is it ok for the car to sag some? I know you have an UltraSwing, but you said you wouldn’t get the lift if you could do over again, so I’m curious. Thanks!
the rear overload springs are definitely a must with the ultraswing. I wouldn't lift it I could go back, but I also wouldn't get an ultraswing again either so I probably wouldn't need it. Although I love the ultraswing, I would just prefer to be lighter if I could do it over. If you end up getting a lift then email info@adventurerigshop.com and ask them what kind of deal they can give you.
A hardy tire made a lot of difference to me and I didn't need rims with just slight size up to a 235, running the Wildpeak AT3W and I think it runs a bit big also and It looks better and is a beast. Other than my air intake, I need nothing else to hang with my friends in there Cherokee Trail Hawks, stock wranglers, Bronco Sports Badlands and such. But they cant touch me in the canyons lol.
FYI I barely get 21 MPG out of A tank.
LOLOL Sounds like a blast! Thanks for the comment!
You mention Ironman and Flatout, saying those are the only two options for a suspension lift? What about RaceWorks? Supposedly, they’ve had a lot of success in racing applications. As well, the images on their site and the few reviews I’ve seen seen suggest they’re offering a very high quality product.
I’m also curious about the claim that Subaru has engineered the ride of the Outback to such a refined degree. I don’t have a Wilderness, but my Onyx reacts sharply to bumps and wallows in prolonged turns when the suspension is compressed. Truthfully, I like the character Subaru has engineered into their vehicles. At the same time, they fitted good enough components and invested sufficiently in R&D to sell a profitable product to customers. They’re not doing anything magical.
If someone wants the performance of the Subaru drivetrain, but also recognizes deficiencies in how an Outback handles varied terrain, I’m not sure what options they have other than to upgrade the suspension. Definitely interested in your thoughts.
He doesn't exactly work on his own cars, and he's on the road a lot which is why I can see that it can be frustrating to break stuff. The lift does help a lot and you're not reducing the overall lifespan of the CV axles by that much with a mild lift. Keeping stock offset and going larger tires with the lift will get you out of most sticky situations. I keep up with stock 4runners with tires in almost every situation I've been in. That being said please don't get KO2's. Falken Wildpeak AT3w's at most.
@@Hublot1 I run Nitto Nomad Grapplers 235/65 17s with a +35 offset and a Nameless strut tower brace. Very happy with how it performs, aside from the suspension issues I mentioned. Josh is, of course, entitled to his opinion. And I have no doubt that opinion was developed through a wealth of experience. I just wonder why there’s such a large community of people lifting their Outback’s if there is nothing to be gained. Is it really people spending money for bragging rights and to show off?
@@jamespotts8372 we run them because it actually helps. Every inch matters when it comes to offroading. As the outback already has poor approach angle and break over getting that tiny bit of lift can be the difference between turning back or making it to your camp site. He is also more of an overlander/hiker than a hardcore offroader which is understandable. If your entire livelihood is based on having your vehicles up and running so you can travel and film, you don't want to worry about potential downtime and longevity issues.
There's a lot to unpack here so I'll try to keep it simple. I have never heard of raceworks, so they may be a solid option, but I'm not sure. My statement about Subaru designing the suspension was made due to the Wilderness model being a totally different style of vehicle for Subaru and I would assume that a company designing a new car platform and concept would take more into consideration then a company that sells lifts for all kinds of vehicles along with numerous other parts and gear. My mind tells me that focusing on a single product is easier then 600 products, but I could be wrong on that.
This will be a blanket statement - There's a very small circle of people who push their outbacks to the limit and even a smaller group of those people know how to fix them in the event that something goes terribly wrong on the trail. The shirt and hat you wear on influenced by something, just like when people outfit their rigs, they've been influenced and taken input from others. Also, 98% of the people who own these cars don't take them anywhere the stock version couldn't go, they definitely look cooler doing it with a lift. It's a practicality issue and in my opinion most people put themselves at risk of warranty issues and CVT problems when they size up their tires and wheels and add 2" of lift. If you're not pushing the limits, save your money and enjoy the ride. If you are pushing the limits, know what you're getting yourself into and learn how to get yourself out.
Thanks for the conversation, fellas!
Thanks for the honesty. I was considering lifting my OBW, but purely for cosmetic reasons. I'm still waffling on it, but it's nice to hear it clearly stated that there is practically zero performance-based reason to do it. I kinda suspected as much, but your experience with it helps. Much appreciated.
No worries! Thanks for the comment!
why don't you put a window ac unit in your garage, I put one in mine. lifesaver.
Doors are always open except when recording a video.
When I lifted my 2015 Forester XT, driving dynamics were greatly affected. It handled terribly. When I lifted my 2019 Honda Passport 3.5” it handled better. One thing to keep in mind is that my 2015 Forester XT was based on the Impreza platform and it was already a lifted version of it. The Passport was built on the Honda light truck platform, so there’s just more play with tolerances and the subframe drop keeps the axle angles happier.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring i love your content!!! I will keep my wilderness stock cept for more protection. I am not more intelligent than the subi engineers.
Altho, after driving a few hundred miles now, it does feel like it has a ton of body roll, just like my f150.
@@benjaminjwilson6694 hey, thanks 🙏 and, why is my comment in a comment reply? Whoops!!!
I'd do it for the look. If you got the money to burn, might as well.
Heard that
Before i consider this i guess i need to own a OBW first lol.
Lol it’s good info to have even before you get one
Appreciate it, cause it helped in me just purchasing one up here in Canada! Can’t wait for it to arrive on October! Got it in magnite grey!
This has really gotten me thinking about lifting my 2020 Outback (premium, not wilderness sadly). I want to chase that slightly more aggressive look the Onyx and Wilderness trims go for, but definitely understand it’s probably not a massive performance boost for the basic model I have.
Ground clearance never hurts!
Thank-you. I'm not lifting
No problem!
ironman is chinese made. that alone is a hard pass. appreciate this video but dont get ironman.
China makes pretty much everything. Most of the components on the wilderness are Chinese made.
really? seeing how majority is manufacturedand built in America. @@roamingwithjosh
The stock Wilderness is 9 times out of 10 a better vehicle than modded. People ruin them with poor tire choices, messed up wheel offsets, scuffed suspension spacers, etc.
The factory version of the vehicle is ideal for it's intended purpose. It's an all-weather highway cruiser with light offroad capability. Subaru has nailed that. Trying to make it more offroad oriented has missed the entire point of the car. That owner should be driving a 4Runner or something. I cringe every time I see KO2s on a Subaru.
I'm a KO2 on a subaru guy and I get your point, probably not the best tire choice for this vehicle, but at the time I had much less experience with the car and went with what I know. People have to learn and that takes time. Thanks for the comment!
Buy a 4 Runner
Thanks