Thanks for helping dispell the myth that it's all about plug/unplug cycles! That Leviton is unsafe regardless. It's good that Leviton finally updated the instructions to say it's not recommended for EV charging.
As a service electrician I have replaced a large number of Hubbell “EV” receptacles too. I agree that the Leviton is lower quality and I have replaced them too. I have to advise most customers to make sure they firmly seat the plug. In most cases we are encouraging the customers to go wiring their chargers.
@harveypaxton1232 I bet most of the failed Hubbell industrial grade ones (model 9450A) have been because of inadequate torque. 75 in lbs (the spec) is a lot. But you are right: the best solution is to hard wire.
@ most of them are on the plug/contact side. I honestly don’t think the customers have been fully seating the plugs. All of the burned ones have been customers that move their chargers around.
@harveypaxton1232 interesting. In addition to the lack of good contact without it in all the way, people should be aware that exposed energized metal is a touch hazard. I've also seen a few molded plugs with bad crimp connections inside.
I’m thankful that your channel exists. The type of information and the quality of information you provide on EV charging specifically is a godsend. I have a plug-in hybrid BMW as first time EV experience . Thanks to the knowledge that you provide, I got the Tesla home charger with magic doc. I had my Electrician place 60 amp circuit breaker with appropriate copper wiring. This way, I have future proved myself for down the line to not only have the NACS connector but also 48A charging.
It’s easy for me to say “do more of these“ because I don’t have to pay for the airfare. I will say that I really think this is awesome content, thank you for doing this!
Thanks for including the explanation for why you don't want to over torque the connection. Something I learned from some crusty old farts that has proven true time, and time again: "If you go cheap and/or push your luck, you're going to get screwed"
Thank you for addressing this important issue. Too many people are either unaware, or too cheap to install the proper equipment. I was just amazed when I just touched the EV breaker after I had been charging. It was HOT. Now I very rarely charge on the highest setting. I'm happy using 6A and taking more care of the battery. I recently watched a RUclipsr explaining how he is happily using his 110v outlet but also uses the same outlet for his dryer to charge at 220v. Judging by the fuse box his house is fairly old, so the combination of old wiring, cheap well used dryer outlet, disconnected, and reconnected every time, had me freaking out!
I self installed, with my hubbell, emporia, all that learned of from you, my electrician inspected it and electrical inspector signed off. Upgraded system plus love my A2Z NACS to ccs1. What you do is so practical and easy to follow. I encourage people to watch your system of presentation is just dead on for me. THANK YOU
Huge Thanks Tom! My wife is now mad at you b/c your video is going to cost us $60k!! I told her I now need to buy an F-150 Lightning with the included Charge Station Pro install to fix my DIY home charger install :-). I'm might be in a whole different level of "Recharge Rescue" as I'm using a NEMA 14-30 Splitter from Neocharge right now with the wire under the door to the garage. Your video made me take apart the plug and it shows signs of melting. Thanks for the video, it's given me the impetus to fix it the right way now.
Found that after using a torque wrench to shake the wires to seat strands a little better then retorque and use a sharpie to mark head of screw and bracket. Some call that a " Witness Mark " and some inspectors ask for it on large switchgear.
This was very informative. The other essential thing is the wire gauge. As per the National Electrical Code for a 50-amp circuit, 6 AWG copper wires and 4 AWG aluminum wires are recommended for cables that run 100 feet or less, a standard distance for cables powering a 50-amp breaker. Note that aluminum requires a thicker gauge wire. Also, the higher the amps, the larger the gauge of the wire. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention; this is essential to safe charging.
Thanks again for another valuable video. A FYI for NJ residents who use Public Service Electric& Gas (PSEG). They will reimburse up to $1500 for installation of an EV charger. The electrician also recommended a direct install rather than NEMA. Also, although the cheaper Leviton NEMA says Industrial Strength, the box states Not for EV Charging. Sorry to hear about your relative. Wishing you and family a Healthy Happy Year.
I had a Hubbell NEMA 14-50 installed. There was no way I was going to cheap out on that thing. It's not a waste of money it's smart money. I had the same problem finding a cover plate, the Hubbell is larger than the kind you can get at the home store. I had to find one the correct size on e-bay.
Same. I hired an electrician to buy and install a Hubbell 14-50. He asked me twice do I really want to spend that much on an outlet when the same outlet at a big box store is much cheaper. Do it right or pay the price.
What a coincidence you publish this video when I just received my Leviton outlet for EV (the exact one you show) two days ago. It will replace the old (and cheap) dryer outlet in my garage).
@@haroldroussel Just FYI if the dryer outlet was only rated for 30A (as many are) and therefore has only 10awg wire, Leviton instructions say you can’t use their 14-50 with 10awg wire (except for the ground). They say only #4-#8 copper.
@@TVwatcher-ic3ne It was indeed only rated for 30A. I didn't have any problems with it yet (was charging at 32A using the mobile charger for the car) but I don't want to take any chance.
Using any outlet for permanent fixed EVSE home charging is actually not legal here in Norway due to the risks of overheating and fire. All EVSE installs also has to be done by a professional or you would risk insurance company voiding your insurance if there is a fire. These EVSE boxes will be connected directly via cable and separate circuit breaker with the proper protection for EV charging. You can also not use the mobile unit as a permanent solution. Here we have 230V IT (230V L+L no neutral) and 400V TN systems (230V using L+N) in peoples homes and the "Schuko" (CEE 7/3 socket and CEE 7/4 plug) most have is rated for 230V 16A, but not continuous. So the mobile unit sold with new EVs are limited to 10A for safety. You can find third party units that can be adjusted up to around 13A.
I got a ford 150 lighting and the ford promise program and had Qmert via DMH Electric in Massachusetts install 60 amp first week of December and love it.
No truer words have been spoken my friend Tom. After watching Sandy Munro’s video 2 yrs ago on charred receptacles, I upgraded mine to hard wired or Hubble 14-50s for remote locations. The $10 Home Depot receptacle is designed for my dryer, not a car charger. These United Charger Grizzle-e Dou’s are underrated as they’ll build them with a J-1772 or Tesla NACS or 1 J-1772/1 NACS. No one else does this! I just wish it could be upgraded to a smart unit.
Hey Tom, Thank you so much for this and all your other videos, especially those related to EV safety. I have an EVSE safety related issue which bears investigation, and may have potential for a future video. Over the holidays I have been perusing the owner's manual for my first EV, a 2024 Nissan LEAF SV Plus. In the Charging section, I came across the following statement: "The device has parts that may spark inside. Do not use it where gasoline, paint, or flammable liquids are used or stored." This statement pertains to the "Genuine NISSAN Adapter" (AKA the OEM EVSE) and reminded me of a comment my HVAC guy made while installing my new AC condenser, that it is a source of sparking and had to be a certain distance from my gas meter vent. Next to my overhead door is a 3' wall with a myriad of utilities mounted on it and next to the drive is a 3' strip of ground where my gas meter and AC condenser are located. The gas meter sits about a foot away from the garage, but it has a tube extending back toward the garage which I believe brings the actual gas meter vent to within a few inches from the garage wall, where the 120VAC/15A outlet is located, where I'd hang a Level 1 EVSE. Fortunately the outlet fairy installed a Hubbell on the inside of this garage wall less than 2 weeks after purchasing our LEAF, so we do Level 2 charging with our "Genuine NISSAN Adapter" and an EVIQO should be arriving at the end of this week. While I have yet to hear of an EVSE causing a house fire by igniting gas meter vented gas, it could be just a matter of time. I'd be curious to hear what Qmerit has to say on the subject.
I noticed at 30:13 the electrician didn’t torque the wires in the breaker box, but did torque them on the outlet. Aren’t the connections to the breaker and the neutral/ground as important?
@@alpham777 and the whole point of Q merit is that they are supposed to be trained to a high level. And that's not even an added EV thing. It's a code requirement across the board.
Makes me happy that I had Q-merit contract a local electrician hardwire my EVSE and it all passed state inspection. They installed in my case a 60a breaker, my current EV only pulls about 32a.
I am glad I watched this video about the EV charging Nema at home. My neighbor installed the Leviton $10 one which the app allowed the Tesla to charge at 29A which gives me 26 miles an hour if I try to go above 29A the circuit break flips off. The app for my Tesla displays the amps you are using and the miles you are getting. I am now ordering the Hubbll one for $59 from Amazon .
Just experienced a complete meltdown of our home charger. The plug connection was completely melted and failed. Could have easily caused a fire or electrocution. Thanks for this critical info. Class action suit coming for Leviton. Leviton does not even list the older 14-50 outlet on their website anymore. They only show the more robust EV approved outlets.
I wish I would have known what questions to ask my qmerit installer last year. They also used a $10 outlet for my install and a few months later after seeing the warnings on channels like these, I had it replaced with a Hubbell before anything bad happened. We definitely need EV specific electric codes.
EV codes are coming but adoption is determined by jurisdiction. In Virginia, we still operate under 2017 codes but once we adopt 2020 code, article 625 will go in effect.
I can't stress enough the importance of torquing the lugs to spec. Most electricians don't have a torque screwdriver, which complicates matters. I bought one just for the purpose of installing my neighbors EVSE outlet. And yes, we used a Hubbell outlet.
Tom it is not just the aluminium screws but the BIG difference is the Socket lugs on the heavy duty Leviton or Hubble have a longer copper lugs. This reduces the resistance and heat that the heavy duty sockets exhibits during the long charging sessions.
I’m having an issue with my Ford Connected EVSE, seems to fault in the cold weather… I got it to integrate with my Ford F-150 Lightning, but it’s been very frustrating that I can’t rely on it (second winter in a row) when temps get below freezing and I need to stay plugged in for optimal battery healthy/conditioning. I’m also wondering if the 60 amp circuit has the correct wiring size/gauge. I had a licensed electrician do the install, but they didn’t have much experience with EVs, so wondering if they didn’t size it correctly for continuous use as they originally had a 14-50 outlet and 50 amp circuit and I had to go back and have them hardwire the charger. How do I know what size wire is in the conduit? What size wire should I have? Is it an easy DIY if I need to put new wire in?
I purchased a Bryant outlet and the backing box etc for my daughters home. Had the outlet installed by an electrician and found out something that your QMerit contractor did as well. The cover plate doesn't fit over the Bryant outlet.. I ordered the correct plate online and finished the job a few days later. Maybe Bryant and Hubbell should sell a plate with their outlets.
OK, you’re scaring me! Great information. I have a Chargepoint Flex. It is hardwired and I hired a reputable licensed electrician to put it in. Sure, it was expensive, but well worth the money.
I had to replace the outlet in my home which was installed by the builder Lennar, they charged us $1200 in 2022 for an EV charger in our garage and used the cheap Leviton outlet. I had already seen other videos of these cheap outlets failing on long duration draws. Replaced with a Hubbell, good to check what you have and get the right outlet, especially if you have an F150 with a huge battery that will draw for 10+hrs. We have an F150 Lighting Flash and Chevy Bolt and the Grizzl.e Duo, it’s great when you two cars to charge and is high quality and a very good price compared to the Clipper Creek. The owner and company are amazing!
I am a fan of your videos! From Quebec, Canada. Following your video, I have reached my provider and I am told the following: It seems the norm you are referring to is for installation of 48 amps and up. Installation with 30 amps or 40 amps can use the « residential » outlet. What is your understanding?
No, no, no. You need a high-quality industrial-grade outlet for ANY 240-v EV charging, because of the continuous use. Sure, lower powered charging won't create as much heat, but you should always use high-quality outlets for EV charging.
You saved me. I checked my extension cord and splitter. Both the splitter and the extension cords have scorched prongs on one of the hot wires. There is no commercial grade 10-30 receptacle so I just ordered a commercial grade 14-30 directly from Hubbell. Hubbell makes a residential grade 10-30r for $13.75. People online try to pass them off as commercial and sell them for $50 and up. Folks see Hubbell and don’t realize they also make residential grade. Beware.
I hardwired my charger (for our Bolt) in 2007. It's a 40 A breaker with a short run to the charger. I have used the 14-50 Leviton (older style) on my welder extension cord & tested my Rivian portable charger to see that it worked for 2 hours. The cheap plug works fine with my tig/stick welder. Likely because it is never used continuous, always short (under 1 min) welds. As you pointed out, continuous high current produces heat & a lot of it. Good Video Tom. My next project is an off grid, stand alone charging system using solar panels & lots of batteries.
Curious why you didn't hardwire this charger since everything was going to be replaced anyways? Great video, and I always recommend your videos to folks getting EV chargers installed.
I like the flexibility of having the outlet. I've had EVSEs fail and need relays replaced, and being able to use a mobile charger is handy at times. I've also taken my EVSE when I moved in the past.
Thanks Tom. I ABSOLUTELY agree that a qualified, experienced, licensed electrician is required to properly install EV chargers. The risk is NOT worth saving a few dollars. In most instances, Darwin Award winners do their own installs!
First, I like your videos. They are concise and easy to understand. You mention that it cost to do it right while other You Tubers say us electricians are ripping people off. Surface metal boxes are better for heat dissipation. Any receptacle for the EVSE has to be on a GFCI circuit breaker which i noticed the electrician did. EVSE technology and installations are evolving and many times the NEC is not up to current needs.
Most states haven’t adopted the 2023 code yet. And the problem with putting in a second GFCI at the breaker (because the EVSE already has one) is nuisance trips. I have a newer juicebox and believe it or not in the manual they actually recommend against putting in a GFCI breaker
I received a quote from QMerit for a connection between my electrical panel and a Grizzel-E charger (about 25 feet in my garage) and was shocked at how expensive the quote was. Yes I want to be safe, but am also practical when it comes to cost.
lol Jesus. the difference in size and price. So glad they listened to their customers though. Also glad you made this video because I had no idea this was a thing. I was able to rewire most of my house and it was pretty simple. But I also planned to get an EV in the future and was planning to wire the outlet myself like I did my oven and dryer outlet. Now I know not to make this critical mistake.
Its hilarious seeing people who aren't used to the camera get recorded. They are so uncomfortable lmao. Man you make it look so natural! I would be so much worse than they are lmao
Thanks so much for this info! I just had a new circuit installed by my electrician because my panel was full. He has installed many 14-50 NEMA outlets in our community and has always used the cheap/ standard Leviton outlets. I went to Home Depot and purchased the recommended outlet and had no problems exchanging it myself. I have a question. Is it OK to leave my Honda “portable” charger plugged in all the time to avoid plugging and unplugging? Even though it’s only 32 Amps at 240v it charges my prologue in about 6 hrs. Thanks!
Excellent charging video and really nice of Tom to call in QMerit and United Chargers to donate dual EVSE. Fritz is very easy-going and not demanding. If my house with two EVs, I’d want direct wiring for sharing 11.5 kW. It’s 20% more for faster charging. Safer too.
I got my charger hardwired by a licensed professional, it’s worth the extra money to do this, fortunately in NC Duke Energy will pay $1100 to update your home for ev charging. I had to pay for a charger, installation and permit.
I've got a pair of "cheap" 14-50 outlets installed by a local electrician during covid, and recently noticed i could hear one of them buzzing (arcing). I swapped that one out for a Leviton EV receptacle immediately. I need to swap the other but am considering just having both hard wired instead. I need to have someone upgrade my generator inlet and transfer switch anyway, so why not do both at once. When checking the old receptacle one of the plug slots has no grip at all on the blade. I've plugged/unplugged the EVSE maybe 10 times in three years so I assume it was the heat cycles wearing it out internally.
Tom, as and idea for next install: Installing the Hubbell in outdoor enclosure. I have the Hubbell 14-50 and can't find an outdoor rated enclosure that can house the larger diameter receptacle, is deep enough and has a large-enough cutout for the chord of an Emporia NACS charger. I even contacted Hubbell and they said they don't have a recommended solution. I imagine the solution lies within RV enclosure products, but haven't found it yet.
Excellent presentation. We are about to buy a house that has an EV charger installed. I will have a qualified electrician inspect the outlet, wiring, and breaker. Thanks again.
I installed mine ( Tesla Universal hardwired) mostly due to the contractor that was set up by the car dealer was only going to meet Illinois electrical code standards, which we all know at this point are not up to the task for EV chargers. So I took a couple months and studied the whole process and did the install myself exceeding code. Also to note it is not only important to torque the contacts down at installation but to also torque them about 1 month after install then check them every year or so because they can still back out from heat load over time.
I had the same idea, but it only takes one part to fail. The maintenance is a good habit to get into, more power flows through that one line than probably the rest of the house.
I had my EVSE hardwire-installed by an electrician who specializes in EVSEs. When the town did the inspection, I asked if he was going to test the torque of the connections. He said "No, these guys are pros, I trust them." Then why the heck am I paying for an inspection? All he checked was that the proper gauge wire was used (I thought these guys were pros, why did he check that!)
Since my Model Y sits in my garage15 hrs a day and I drive less than 40 miles/day, I just use my 120 volt outlet, and that's all I need. Would there be a problem with a typical 120 volt outlet delivering electricity continuously for hours? I've touched the plug after it's been charging for hours and it's still cool. Not even warm.
L1 charging is fine for your circumstances. I did that myself for 2 years before stepping up to 48A L2 EVSE. (future proofing) The one thing I would recommend is installing a heavy duty commercial grade receptacle. They’re $10-$15 and will be able to handle the continuous load. You should periodically check your receptacle for heat damage “browning “ around the small slot (load terminal). I had to replace mine twice in 2.5 years.
@@dennisschlieckau8723 Thanks! I just watched the Tom Moloughney video talking about getting the right receptacle for a continuous 240 volt load for fire safety. Good info.
Thanks for covering the subject well. I had my NEMA 14-50 outlet installed by an electrician more than 7 years ago and have changed most days at output of 9.6 kw with no problems. Lesson to be learned is just because you were able to wire your house with Cat5 cable one weekend and speaker wire for surround sound another time does not make you competent for 50-amp circuits
Good to learn that Leviton now has an EV charging rated Nema 14-50 receptacle. I just checked the orange big box store online and confusingly they have 2 versions of it. Both are Leviton 14-50R with “EV” markings but one is $39 and the other $59. Different SKUs.
thank you for your show. I had a hardwired autel 50 amp installed. the electrician on put a 50 amp circuit in after I told him I had the charger set at 48 amps. do I need to change the charger to 40 amps. Thank You for your help.
Yeah, but your electrician REALLY should have known that. Are you sure he didn't install it on a 60-amp circuit? That's what's needed for a 48-amp unit. Was it inspected? The inspector would/should have caught that.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney yes i asked him if it didn't need a 60 amp circuit and he said 50 was fine. so I'll switch it over to to 40. thank you once again
then I'll contact electrician's boss and see what awg wire he used to make sure it is large enoung to handle 60 amp circuit and 48 draw and have them come back with a 60 amp
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Great video, thanks. I used an extension cord for my Tesla mobile charger, was using a 110v outlet for a little a month and the ext. cord’s fuse burnt. Do you know why?
We live in WA state and had the electrician install a 14-50 when we replaced our 1980s panel 2 years ago in anticipation of getting an EV and because it waives a portion of sales tax on the panel replacement. The state inspector signed off on the 14-50. It is the bad Leviton with 8 gage wire. So now we have a professionally installed fire hazard and are shopping for an EV.
Excellent video on what is a common problem for new at home chargers. I like the two car solution of Grizzly. I have the Tesla Universal with the home magic dock, but it can’t charge 2 cars simultaneously. Any chance in the future for profiling vehicle to hone equipment.
I so much appreciate this information and warning. I presently have one specific hardwired EV charger (Clipper Creek) but have a neighbor who I allow to come and charge their EV here as well. When we both need to charge at the same time, I’ve allowed them to use a mobile charger using a NEMA 6-30R outlet on a separate 40A breaker. Since the mobile charger has a NEMA 14-50 plug, I have a EV specific 14-50 to 6-30 adapter to make the connection. So far, there have been no issues or signs of overheating. The 14-50 to 6-30 adapter does specify to tamp down the draw to 24A. I’ve checked the mobile charger while in use, and it never draws more than 20A. Should I be concerned and replace the 6-30 outlet to the Leviton EV 14-50 outlet? Since I use the 6-30 outlet for my 220V electric wood splitter, and need that plug configuration, I’d probably just run a separate new line from the breaker box to a new Leviton EV 14-50 outlet instead.
Thanks for a great video... Adding wireless interconnected smoke detector in the garage (if you don't have any of those exhaust fume makers ie: ICE mobiles)... Could detect early fire issues. Stay safe, Tim in Texas
I have the basic leviton 14-50R and I have been charging with it for going on 3 years without issue. It is a 50 amp circuit, but I run it at 32 amps. I leave the EVSE plugged in (unplugged it perhaps 3 times in 3 years), and I typically charge for around 3 hours. (23kWh). I inspect the receptacle frequently and it is showing absolutely no sign of any thermal stress I installed the outlet myself (and I bought the correct cover the first time ;-) When I was in vocational high school I trained up to the point where i could have taken the test for a journeyman's ticket (3 year program) but then went on to become a software engineer.
hate to say it if you got the electrician over just hard wire and be done. Also upgrade to the 60A and wire (I mean this is like 2-3 feet of wire) and you will get the full 11KW plus and have not to worry about plugging and re-plugging .. unless the plug may be used for something else. cheers good job though 🙂
Tom, Another very useful presentation! Thanks!! Question: given the heating and cooling at the wire connections, including at the 50amp breakers, would using a bit of lock tight be advisable or does the correct torque setting obviate the need for lock tight? Or, is use of lock tight in electrical applications not appropriate? All the best, Pat Quinn
Hey Pat. It would be best if you did not use Loctite, or any other like product, on electrical connections because it will significantly impede conductivity by creating an insulating layer between the metal surfaces and causing poor connections.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Another thanks for your informative and kind reply, Tom! A friend also cautioned against the use of loctite on electrical connections. I will invest in a suitable torque wrench, instead. In that vein, six months following my installing an Emporia EVSE, using #6 stranded copper wire and a pair of 50 amp circuit breaker, I rechecked the breaker connections and did find them looseR than I had left them. I will be rechecking all connections, including the hard wired ones inside the excellent Emporia unit at least once a year! All the best, P.Q.
Thanks Tom for another great product safety alert. I don't disagree with anything that you said. I would state though that I don't think the cheap 14-50 outlets are inherently defective, rather that they are significantly more likely to encounter loose connections, which can then lead to major fire hazards. The cheap styles all seem to have their screws directly pinching the wire as apposed to the industrial and EV grade that use a box style compression connection. I wonder though if these screw style connections on these outlets were loosening after numerous thermal cycles, and the manufacturer's found the problem then came out with a decent quality outlet. Or simply saw the product demand for the industrial products and wanted a piece of the action. You were correct in that a Range doesn't draw large amounts of current for hours at a time, but it's an even lower load than that. Ranges typically would only draw a maximum of 50A, if A: All burners on the cook top were on simultaneously, and B: the oven was not only on but actively heating. If you are cooking something in the oven for 4 hours, the element is only cycling on and off intermittently to maintain the set temperature. I much prefer the box clamp style connection over the direct screw style for most connections. That includes 120V outlets as well, and you'll notice the same trend with those when comparing the economy / builder grade products to the industrial grade products. Like you've said before I highly recommend hard wiring your EVSE unless you absolutely cannot.
One thing that seems to be an ongoing issue is the size of the junction box. A standard one is too small. No one seems to know what product to use. The larger faceplate is easy to find but what about the actual box ?
Thanks Tom. I have a standard Leviton nema 14-50 outlet in my garage. I’m just using the cord that came with my lightning and not using any home charging unit. Is that plug sufficient or should I replace it with the industrial plug? Thanks
Something I discovered while charging is be aware of the appliances that are running in the house. Other than having an extra appliance that turned off the main breaker, there have been no problems charging my Leaf.
Tom perhaps you could please recommend the right plug to be used in conjunction with the outlet and also the right cover plate along with the appropriate box to be used. Thanks.
I’m a DIY guy and i just replaced my cheap Leviton outlet that the electrician installed. ( i had a good argument with that electrician about the receptacle, long story short, that company apparently went out of business.) anyway my friend who is an apprentice electrician and I swapped the receptacle and torqued it to the correct spec, which the licensed electrician didn’t even do. Shame on them. Make sure your electrician knows what she/he is doing!
Here’s a pro tip for all you DIYers like me. To fit receptacle in box, you must bend wires as needed. Always, do a final re-torquing before pushing wired receptacle in box. Those final wire bends will loosen the connection causing heat. Electricians refer to this as the “wiggle test.”
There isn't an EV-specific 120v outlet that I know of. But if you are going to use it for home charging, I would suggest going to an electrical supply house (not a hardware store) and buying a high-quality industrial-grade outlet and swap out your existing outlet. Even then, open up the outlet at least once a year to check the connections.
There are higher grade nema 5-15r sockets at my local hardware store but honestly if it's a 20A circuit (and wires actually rated for 20A, no 14 gauge wires), install a 5-20R (which is the kind that can accept both 5-15P and 5-20P sockets, the latter is the one with a horizontal pin) since it's rated for 20A
@@TAWithiam Thanks! A quick internet search returns nema 5-20R receptacles ranging in price from $3 to $50. Perhaps you get what you pay for, just as Tom showed in the video with Level 2 receptacles.
I installed a Legrand outlet and it seems to be working fine. I did unplug it a few times over the first year to check for melting and found no issue. It has been installed for 2yrs now. If anyone has had issues with a legrand, please response if you see my message. My 2nd charger for my 2nd ev, I hard wired so no need to worry there.
Hi Tom, thank you for very informative videos, as always appreciate for your detailed explanations. I’m having issues with charging the IX for a few weeks now. What ever I do the iX is only pulling 9kw only. I even purchased few wall boxes same issue. I heard it can be charged 11 kw. I really want your opinion . I live in Staten Island 😊.
25:22 it actually appears that the Tesla is capped at 20 amps. Shows 20/20 A. Is the charging equipment communicating its max output to the vehicle, or is the vehicle configured to only accept 20A at that location?
The EVSE always tells the vehicle how much current is available using a signal on one of the small pins in the connector. The car can be set to draw less, but the max it should draw is what the EVSE signals it can supply.
its wild that this happens in the states, we have high power sockets in EU/UK, but i guess because those are only used for incredibly high power equipment it rarely becomes an issue, because y'all at 110/120v, anything even mildly powerful needs a 240v plug ,and there are so many. i could pick up effectively any 32a commando blue plug and be sure its fine, the fact you can buy a nema 14-50 and then go "wait is this not good enough" is kinda winld
Thanks for this video Tom. It’s so critical that EV owners are aware of this aspect of home charging.
I agree - it's an important topic, and something most people don't think about.
Thanks for helping dispell the myth that it's all about plug/unplug cycles! That Leviton is unsafe regardless. It's good that Leviton finally updated the instructions to say it's not recommended for EV charging.
As a service electrician I have replaced a large number of Hubbell “EV” receptacles too. I agree that the Leviton is lower quality and I have replaced them too. I have to advise most customers to make sure they firmly seat the plug. In most cases we are encouraging the customers to go wiring their chargers.
@harveypaxton1232 I bet most of the failed Hubbell industrial grade ones (model 9450A) have been because of inadequate torque. 75 in lbs (the spec) is a lot. But you are right: the best solution is to hard wire.
@ most of them are on the plug/contact side. I honestly don’t think the customers have been fully seating the plugs. All of the burned ones have been customers that move their chargers around.
@harveypaxton1232 interesting. In addition to the lack of good contact without it in all the way, people should be aware that exposed energized metal is a touch hazard. I've also seen a few molded plugs with bad crimp connections inside.
@@charliesullivan4304 I think Tesla must be using multiple manufacturers for the wall connector cords. Some of them seem to be Harbor Freight quality.
I’m thankful that your channel exists. The type of information and the quality of information you provide on EV charging specifically is a godsend.
I have a plug-in hybrid BMW as first time EV experience . Thanks to the knowledge that you provide, I got the Tesla home charger with magic doc. I had my Electrician place 60 amp circuit breaker with appropriate copper wiring.
This way, I have future proved myself for down the line to not only have the NACS connector but also 48A charging.
Thanks Tom. I had one of those basic outlets as a spare in my garage. Replaced it with the EV version recently after your and other channels warnings.
Your viewer (and his camera person) did a darn good job on their video!
Thanks! I'll let her know.
It’s easy for me to say “do more of these“ because I don’t have to pay for the airfare. I will say that I really think this is awesome content, thank you for doing this!
Another public service information video by Tom! 👏👏👏
Thanks for including the explanation for why you don't want to over torque the connection.
Something I learned from some crusty old farts that has proven true time, and time again:
"If you go cheap and/or push your luck, you're going to get screwed"
Thank you for addressing this important issue.
Too many people are either unaware, or too cheap to install the proper equipment. I was just amazed when I just touched the EV breaker after I had been charging. It was HOT. Now I very rarely charge on the highest setting. I'm happy using 6A and taking more care of the battery.
I recently watched a RUclipsr explaining how he is happily using his 110v outlet but also uses the same outlet for his dryer to charge at 220v. Judging by the fuse box his house is fairly old, so the combination of old wiring, cheap well used dryer outlet, disconnected, and reconnected every time, had me freaking out!
I self installed, with my hubbell, emporia, all that learned of from you, my electrician inspected it and electrical inspector signed off. Upgraded system plus love my A2Z NACS to ccs1. What you do is so practical and easy to follow. I encourage people to watch your system of presentation is just dead on for me. THANK YOU
Thank you! I try to make my content digestible for everyone.
Huge Thanks Tom! My wife is now mad at you b/c your video is going to cost us $60k!! I told her I now need to buy an F-150 Lightning with the included Charge Station Pro install to fix my DIY home charger install :-). I'm might be in a whole different level of "Recharge Rescue" as I'm using a NEMA 14-30 Splitter from Neocharge right now with the wire under the door to the garage. Your video made me take apart the plug and it shows signs of melting. Thanks for the video, it's given me the impetus to fix it the right way now.
After 6 months I had to retorque the cables at the breaker even though they had been torqued correctly at installation. No over heating now.
That's a good reminder to check the connections periodically.
Good reminder, I need to recheck the connections.
Found that after using a torque wrench to shake the wires to seat strands a little better then retorque and use a sharpie to mark head of screw and bracket. Some call that a " Witness Mark " and some inspectors ask for it on large switchgear.
This was very informative. The other essential thing is the wire gauge. As per the National Electrical Code for a 50-amp circuit, 6 AWG copper wires and 4 AWG aluminum wires are recommended for cables that run 100 feet or less, a standard distance for cables powering a 50-amp breaker. Note that aluminum requires a thicker gauge wire. Also, the higher the amps, the larger the gauge of the wire. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention; this is essential to safe charging.
Yeah, the original run was 6 gauge copper.
Even cooking and elec dryers cycle on and off based on operating temperature. Water heater longer duty cycle but wired directly.
Also be aware that most outlets, I know Hubbel/bryant, are not compatible with Aluminum wire. Must be copper.
Thank you for taking on charger rescues. That's awesome!
The time lapse of the install was great. Thanks for including it. Thanks for the efforts to put this all together.
Thanks again for another valuable video. A FYI for NJ residents who use Public Service Electric& Gas (PSEG). They will reimburse up to $1500 for installation of an EV charger. The electrician also recommended a direct install rather than NEMA. Also, although the cheaper Leviton NEMA says Industrial Strength, the box states Not for EV Charging. Sorry to hear about your relative. Wishing you and family a Healthy Happy Year.
I had a Hubbell NEMA 14-50 installed. There was no way I was going to cheap out on that thing. It's not a waste of money it's smart money. I had the same problem finding a cover plate, the Hubbell is larger than the kind you can get at the home store. I had to find one the correct size on e-bay.
Electrical supply store should carry the proper outlet cover.
Same. I hired an electrician to buy and install a Hubbell 14-50. He asked me twice do I really want to spend that much on an outlet when the same outlet at a big box store is much cheaper. Do it right or pay the price.
@@Dactylonian That is one sketchy electrician.
What a coincidence you publish this video when I just received my Leviton outlet for EV (the exact one you show) two days ago. It will replace the old (and cheap) dryer outlet in my garage).
Good on you! Please torque it to specifications
@@haroldroussel Just FYI if the dryer outlet was only rated for 30A (as many are) and therefore has only 10awg wire, Leviton instructions say you can’t use their 14-50 with 10awg wire (except for the ground). They say only #4-#8 copper.
@@TVwatcher-ic3ne It was indeed only rated for 30A. I didn't have any problems with it yet (was charging at 32A using the mobile charger for the car) but I don't want to take any chance.
Using any outlet for permanent fixed EVSE home charging is actually not legal here in Norway due to the risks of overheating and fire. All EVSE installs also has to be done by a professional or you would risk insurance company voiding your insurance if there is a fire. These EVSE boxes will be connected directly via cable and separate circuit breaker with the proper protection for EV charging. You can also not use the mobile unit as a permanent solution.
Here we have 230V IT (230V L+L no neutral) and 400V TN systems (230V using L+N) in peoples homes and the "Schuko" (CEE 7/3 socket and CEE 7/4 plug) most have is rated for 230V 16A, but not continuous. So the mobile unit sold with new EVs are limited to 10A for safety. You can find third party units that can be adjusted up to around 13A.
I got a ford 150 lighting and the ford promise program and had Qmert via DMH Electric in Massachusetts install 60 amp first week of December and love it.
Nice of you and the contractor to help him out.
No truer words have been spoken my friend Tom. After watching Sandy Munro’s video 2 yrs ago on charred receptacles, I upgraded mine to hard wired or Hubble 14-50s for remote locations. The $10 Home Depot receptacle is designed for my dryer, not a car charger.
These United Charger Grizzle-e Dou’s are underrated as they’ll build them with a J-1772 or Tesla NACS or 1 J-1772/1 NACS. No one else does this! I just wish it could be upgraded to a smart unit.
Hey Tom, Thank you so much for this and all your other videos, especially those related to EV safety. I have an EVSE safety related issue which bears investigation, and may have potential for a future video.
Over the holidays I have been perusing the owner's manual for my first EV, a 2024 Nissan LEAF SV Plus. In the Charging section, I came across the following statement: "The device has parts that may spark inside. Do not use it where gasoline, paint, or flammable liquids are used or stored." This statement pertains to the "Genuine NISSAN Adapter" (AKA the OEM EVSE) and reminded me of a comment my HVAC guy made while installing my new AC condenser, that it is a source of sparking and had to be a certain distance from my gas meter vent. Next to my overhead door is a 3' wall with a myriad of utilities mounted on it and next to the drive is a 3' strip of ground where my gas meter and AC condenser are located. The gas meter sits about a foot away from the garage, but it has a tube extending back toward the garage which I believe brings the actual gas meter vent to within a few inches from the garage wall, where the 120VAC/15A outlet is located, where I'd hang a Level 1 EVSE.
Fortunately the outlet fairy installed a Hubbell on the inside of this garage wall less than 2 weeks after purchasing our LEAF, so we do Level 2 charging with our "Genuine NISSAN Adapter" and an EVIQO should be arriving at the end of this week. While I have yet to hear of an EVSE causing a house fire by igniting gas meter vented gas, it could be just a matter of time. I'd be curious to hear what Qmerit has to say on the subject.
I noticed at 30:13 the electrician didn’t torque the wires in the breaker box, but did torque them on the outlet. Aren’t the connections to the breaker and the neutral/ground as important?
Yep, and this is why the pro's need better training.
@@alpham777 and the whole point of Q merit is that they are supposed to be trained to a high level. And that's not even an added EV thing. It's a code requirement across the board.
lol always a nitpicker in the crowd. Every. Time.
@@alpham777this whole video is about nitpicking. But if there is such focus on torquing the outlet, why not the breaker? It’s another failure point.
Maybe he did it off screen .
Makes me happy that I had Q-merit contract a local electrician hardwire my EVSE and it all passed state inspection. They installed in my case a 60a breaker, my current EV only pulls about 32a.
Are you saying your EV can only do 32A or the charger you're using can only do 32A?
@lashlarue59 at 240v AC yes. It's max level 2 charging is 7.5kw.
I am glad I watched this video about the EV charging Nema at home. My neighbor installed the Leviton $10 one which the app allowed the Tesla to charge at 29A which gives me 26 miles an hour if I try to go above 29A the circuit break flips off. The app for my Tesla displays the amps you are using and the miles you are getting. I am now ordering the Hubbll one for $59 from Amazon .
Just experienced a complete meltdown of our home charger. The plug connection was completely melted and failed. Could have easily caused a fire or electrocution. Thanks for this critical info. Class action suit coming for Leviton. Leviton does not even list the older 14-50 outlet on their website anymore. They only show the more robust EV approved outlets.
I wish I would have known what questions to ask my qmerit installer last year. They also used a $10 outlet for my install and a few months later after seeing the warnings on channels like these, I had it replaced with a Hubbell before anything bad happened. We definitely need EV specific electric codes.
EV codes are coming but adoption is determined by jurisdiction. In Virginia, we still operate under 2017 codes but once we adopt 2020 code, article 625 will go in effect.
QMerit failed you. Scary
Thanks Tom, I appreciate this, I was thinking of short-cutting an install. Not anymore :)
Please don't
Great job and informative. Correct me if I'm wrong,Pete should have also torqued the circuit breaker to manufacturers specs as well.
Why didn't he use the torque wrench for the connections inside the circuit breaker panel? Those are as important as the ones to the 14-50 plug.
I can't stress enough the importance of torquing the lugs to spec. Most electricians don't have a torque screwdriver, which complicates matters. I bought one just for the purpose of installing my neighbors EVSE outlet. And yes, we used a Hubbell outlet.
Huge jump on video image quality, nice !
Loving this series Tom! Keep it up
Tom it is not just the aluminium screws but the BIG difference is the Socket lugs on the heavy duty Leviton or Hubble have a longer copper lugs. This reduces the resistance and heat that the heavy duty sockets exhibits during the long charging sessions.
Yep
Now THAT'S a housecall!
I’m having an issue with my Ford Connected EVSE, seems to fault in the cold weather… I got it to integrate with my Ford F-150 Lightning, but it’s been very frustrating that I can’t rely on it (second winter in a row) when temps get below freezing and I need to stay plugged in for optimal battery healthy/conditioning. I’m also wondering if the 60 amp circuit has the correct wiring size/gauge. I had a licensed electrician do the install, but they didn’t have much experience with EVs, so wondering if they didn’t size it correctly for continuous use as they originally had a 14-50 outlet and 50 amp circuit and I had to go back and have them hardwire the charger. How do I know what size wire is in the conduit? What size wire should I have? Is it an easy DIY if I need to put new wire in?
I purchased a Bryant outlet and the backing box etc for my daughters home. Had the outlet installed by an electrician and found out something that your QMerit contractor did as well. The cover plate doesn't fit over the Bryant outlet.. I ordered the correct plate online and finished the job a few days later. Maybe Bryant and Hubbell should sell a plate with their outlets.
OK, you’re scaring me! Great information. I have a Chargepoint Flex. It is hardwired and I hired a reputable licensed electrician to put it in. Sure, it was expensive, but well worth the money.
I had to replace the outlet in my home which was installed by the builder Lennar, they charged us $1200 in 2022 for an EV charger in our garage and used the cheap Leviton outlet. I had already seen other videos of these cheap outlets failing on long duration draws. Replaced with a Hubbell, good to check what you have and get the right outlet, especially if you have an F150 with a huge battery that will draw for 10+hrs. We have an F150 Lighting Flash and Chevy Bolt and the Grizzl.e Duo, it’s great when you two cars to charge and is high quality and a very good price compared to the Clipper Creek. The owner and company are amazing!
Grizzle-E Duo is very underrated. Got one myself.
I am a fan of your videos! From Quebec, Canada. Following your video, I have reached my provider and I am told the following: It seems the norm you are referring to is for installation of 48 amps and up. Installation with 30 amps or 40 amps can use the « residential » outlet. What is your understanding?
No, no, no. You need a high-quality industrial-grade outlet for ANY 240-v EV charging, because of the continuous use. Sure, lower powered charging won't create as much heat, but you should always use high-quality outlets for EV charging.
@ , some of my friends have a connector « welding outlet » type. Is this OK based on your experience and network?
You saved me. I checked my extension cord and splitter. Both the splitter and the extension cords have scorched prongs on one of the hot wires. There is no commercial grade 10-30 receptacle so I just ordered a commercial grade 14-30 directly from Hubbell. Hubbell makes a residential grade 10-30r for $13.75. People online try to pass them off as commercial and sell them for $50 and up. Folks see Hubbell and don’t realize they also make residential grade. Beware.
I hardwired my charger (for our Bolt) in 2007. It's a 40 A breaker with a short run to the charger. I have used the 14-50 Leviton (older style) on my welder extension cord & tested my Rivian portable charger to see that it worked for 2 hours. The cheap plug works fine with my tig/stick welder. Likely because it is never used continuous, always short (under 1 min) welds. As you pointed out, continuous high current produces heat & a lot of it. Good Video Tom. My next project is an off grid, stand alone charging system using solar panels & lots of batteries.
Does the Neocharge Smart Splitter prevent melting of the dryer outlet?
Curious why you didn't hardwire this charger since everything was going to be replaced anyways? Great video, and I always recommend your videos to folks getting EV chargers installed.
He didn't want it hardwired
I like the flexibility of having the outlet. I've had EVSEs fail and need relays replaced, and being able to use a mobile charger is handy at times. I've also taken my EVSE when I moved in the past.
Thanks Tom. I ABSOLUTELY agree that a qualified, experienced, licensed electrician is required to properly install EV chargers. The risk is NOT worth saving a few dollars. In most instances, Darwin Award winners do their own installs!
Thanks for this video. It's been one year since my install. I'm checking all torque settings tomorrow to see if they have changed at all.
First, I like your videos. They are concise and easy to understand. You mention that it cost to do it right while other You Tubers say us electricians are ripping people off. Surface metal boxes are better for heat dissipation. Any receptacle for the EVSE has to be on a GFCI circuit breaker which i noticed the electrician did. EVSE technology and installations are evolving and many times the NEC is not up to current needs.
Thank you.
Most states haven’t adopted the 2023 code yet. And the problem with putting in a second GFCI at the breaker (because the EVSE already has one) is nuisance trips. I have a newer juicebox and believe it or not in the manual they actually recommend against putting in a GFCI breaker
Unless you're drive a Cybertruck a Nema 6-20 with 20amp charging is enough at 240v and much safer.
So Important to inspect the outlet to breaker. Just had mine done and all is well. Do inspection about every 2 years.
I just bought the Leviton EV specific adapter and will be having it replaced ASAP from the $10 type. Thanks Tom.
I received a quote from QMerit for a connection between my electrical panel and a Grizzel-E charger (about 25 feet in my garage) and was shocked at how expensive the quote was. Yes I want to be safe, but am also practical when it comes to cost.
lol Jesus. the difference in size and price. So glad they listened to their customers though. Also glad you made this video because I had no idea this was a thing. I was able to rewire most of my house and it was pretty simple. But I also planned to get an EV in the future and was planning to wire the outlet myself like I did my oven and dryer outlet. Now I know not to make this critical mistake.
Its hilarious seeing people who aren't used to the camera get recorded. They are so uncomfortable lmao. Man you make it look so natural! I would be so much worse than they are lmao
Thanks so much for this info! I just had a new circuit installed by my electrician because my panel was full. He has installed many 14-50 NEMA outlets in our community and has always used the cheap/ standard Leviton outlets. I went to Home Depot and purchased the recommended outlet and had no problems exchanging it myself.
I have a question. Is it OK to leave my Honda “portable” charger plugged in all the time to avoid plugging and unplugging? Even though it’s only 32 Amps at 240v it charges my prologue in about 6 hrs.
Thanks!
Excellent charging video and really nice of Tom to call in QMerit and United Chargers to donate dual EVSE. Fritz is very easy-going and not demanding. If my house with two EVs, I’d want direct wiring for sharing 11.5 kW. It’s 20% more for faster charging. Safer too.
I got my charger hardwired by a licensed professional, it’s worth the extra money to do this, fortunately in NC Duke Energy will pay $1100 to update your home for ev charging. I had to pay for a charger, installation and permit.
I've got a pair of "cheap" 14-50 outlets installed by a local electrician during covid, and recently noticed i could hear one of them buzzing (arcing). I swapped that one out for a Leviton EV receptacle immediately. I need to swap the other but am considering just having both hard wired instead. I need to have someone upgrade my generator inlet and transfer switch anyway, so why not do both at once.
When checking the old receptacle one of the plug slots has no grip at all on the blade. I've plugged/unplugged the EVSE maybe 10 times in three years so I assume it was the heat cycles wearing it out internally.
Tom, as and idea for next install: Installing the Hubbell in outdoor enclosure. I have the Hubbell 14-50 and can't find an outdoor rated enclosure that can house the larger diameter receptacle, is deep enough and has a large-enough cutout for the chord of an Emporia NACS charger. I even contacted Hubbell and they said they don't have a recommended solution. I imagine the solution lies within RV enclosure products, but haven't found it yet.
Looking for the same solution
Excellent presentation. We are about to buy a house that has an EV charger installed. I will have a qualified electrician inspect the outlet, wiring, and breaker. Thanks again.
I installed mine ( Tesla Universal hardwired) mostly due to the contractor that was set up by the car dealer was only going to meet Illinois electrical code standards, which we all know at this point are not up to the task for EV chargers. So I took a couple months and studied the whole process and did the install myself exceeding code. Also to note it is not only important to torque the contacts down at installation but to also torque them about 1 month after install then check them every year or so because they can still back out from heat load over time.
I had the same idea, but it only takes one part to fail. The maintenance is a good habit to get into, more power flows through that one line than probably the rest of the house.
I had my EVSE hardwire-installed by an electrician who specializes in EVSEs. When the town did the inspection, I asked if he was going to test the torque of the connections. He said "No, these guys are pros, I trust them." Then why the heck am I paying for an inspection? All he checked was that the proper gauge wire was used (I thought these guys were pros, why did he check that!)
That should be part of the inspection, IMO
Still waiting for a Ford OTA update to see the charging speed on the dash of my Lightning.
Since my Model Y sits in my garage15 hrs a day and I drive less than 40 miles/day, I just use my 120 volt outlet, and that's all I need. Would there be a problem with a typical 120 volt outlet delivering electricity continuously for hours? I've touched the plug after it's been charging for hours and it's still cool. Not even warm.
L1 charging is fine for your circumstances. I did that myself for 2 years before stepping up to 48A L2 EVSE. (future proofing)
The one thing I would recommend is installing a heavy duty commercial grade receptacle. They’re $10-$15 and will be able to handle the continuous load. You should periodically check your receptacle for heat damage “browning “ around the small slot (load terminal). I had to replace mine twice in 2.5 years.
@@dennisschlieckau8723 Thanks! I just watched the Tom Moloughney video talking about getting the right receptacle for a continuous 240 volt load for fire safety. Good info.
Why would you not hardwire and eliminate the potential meltdiwn from happening again, even with the upgraded outlet?
Thanks for covering the subject well. I had my NEMA 14-50 outlet installed by an electrician more than 7 years ago and have changed most days at output of 9.6 kw with no problems. Lesson to be learned is just because you were able to wire your house with Cat5 cable one weekend and speaker wire for surround sound another time does not make you competent for 50-amp circuits
Good to learn that Leviton now has an EV charging rated Nema 14-50 receptacle. I just checked the orange big box store online and confusingly they have 2 versions of it. Both are Leviton 14-50R with “EV” markings but one is $39 and the other $59. Different SKUs.
I raised the same question. I purchased the $39 version today. I can find any info on the difference. Leviton does not list two different versions.
@ weird. Might be bulk package vs individual box? I assume so long as it says “EV” somewhere on it you’re good to go…
thank you for your show. I had a hardwired autel 50 amp installed. the electrician on put a 50 amp circuit in after I told him I had the charger set at 48 amps. do I need to change the charger to 40 amps. Thank You for your help.
Yeah, but your electrician REALLY should have known that. Are you sure he didn't install it on a 60-amp circuit? That's what's needed for a 48-amp unit. Was it inspected? The inspector would/should have caught that.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney yes i asked him if it didn't need a 60 amp circuit and he said 50 was fine. so I'll switch it over to to 40. thank you once again
then I'll contact electrician's boss and see what awg wire he used to make sure it is large enoung to handle 60 amp circuit and 48 draw and have them come back with a 60 amp
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Great video, thanks. I used an extension cord for my Tesla mobile charger, was using a 110v outlet for a little a month and the ext. cord’s fuse burnt. Do you know why?
We live in WA state and had the electrician install a 14-50 when we replaced our 1980s panel 2 years ago in anticipation of getting an EV and because it waives a portion of sales tax on the panel replacement. The state inspector signed off on the 14-50. It is the bad Leviton with 8 gage wire. So now we have a professionally installed fire hazard and are shopping for an EV.
Excellent video on what is a common problem for new at home chargers. I like the two car solution of Grizzly. I have the Tesla Universal with the home magic dock, but it can’t charge 2 cars simultaneously. Any chance in the future for profiling vehicle to hone equipment.
I so much appreciate this information and warning. I presently have one specific hardwired EV charger (Clipper Creek) but have a neighbor who I allow to come and charge their EV here as well. When we both need to charge at the same time, I’ve allowed them to use a mobile charger using a NEMA 6-30R outlet on a separate 40A breaker. Since the mobile charger has a NEMA 14-50 plug, I have a EV specific 14-50 to 6-30 adapter to make the connection.
So far, there have been no issues or signs of overheating. The 14-50 to 6-30 adapter does specify to tamp down the draw to 24A. I’ve checked the mobile charger while in use, and it never draws more than 20A. Should I be concerned and replace the 6-30 outlet to the Leviton EV 14-50 outlet? Since I use the 6-30 outlet for my 220V electric wood splitter, and need that plug configuration, I’d probably just run a separate new line from the breaker box to a new Leviton EV 14-50 outlet instead.
Also the plastic on the heavy duty one would be higher temp so it holds the metal better without sagging.
Thanks for a great video... Adding wireless interconnected smoke detector in the garage (if you don't have any of those exhaust fume makers ie: ICE mobiles)... Could detect early fire issues. Stay safe, Tim in Texas
I really like those OG ITT cannon charge handles!
I have the basic leviton 14-50R and I have been charging with it for going on 3 years without issue.
It is a 50 amp circuit, but I run it at 32 amps. I leave the EVSE plugged in (unplugged it perhaps 3 times in 3 years), and I typically charge for around 3 hours. (23kWh).
I inspect the receptacle frequently and it is showing absolutely no sign of any thermal stress
I installed the outlet myself (and I bought the correct cover the first time ;-)
When I was in vocational high school I trained up to the point where i could have taken the test for a journeyman's ticket (3 year program) but then went on to become a software engineer.
hate to say it if you got the electrician over just hard wire and be done. Also upgrade to the 60A and wire (I mean this is like 2-3 feet of wire) and you will get the full 11KW plus and have not to worry about plugging and re-plugging .. unless the plug may be used for something else. cheers good job though 🙂
Tom,
Another very useful presentation! Thanks!!
Question: given the heating and cooling at the wire connections, including at the 50amp breakers, would using a bit of lock tight be advisable or does the correct torque setting obviate the need for lock tight? Or, is use of lock tight in electrical applications not appropriate?
All the best,
Pat Quinn
Hey Pat. It would be best if you did not use Loctite, or any other like product, on electrical connections because it will significantly impede conductivity by creating an insulating layer between the metal surfaces and causing poor connections.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Another thanks for your informative and kind reply, Tom! A friend also cautioned against the use of loctite on electrical connections. I will invest in a suitable torque wrench, instead. In that vein, six months following my installing an Emporia EVSE, using #6 stranded copper wire and a pair of 50 amp circuit breaker, I rechecked the breaker connections and did find them looseR than I had left them. I will be rechecking all connections, including the hard wired ones inside the excellent Emporia unit at least once a year!
All the best,
P.Q.
Do you think we need special receptacles for basic 120 V charging outlet?
No those only charge at 12amps max
Thanks Tom for another great product safety alert. I don't disagree with anything that you said. I would state though that I don't think the cheap 14-50 outlets are inherently defective, rather that they are significantly more likely to encounter loose connections, which can then lead to major fire hazards. The cheap styles all seem to have their screws directly pinching the wire as apposed to the industrial and EV grade that use a box style compression connection. I wonder though if these screw style connections on these outlets were loosening after numerous thermal cycles, and the manufacturer's found the problem then came out with a decent quality outlet. Or simply saw the product demand for the industrial products and wanted a piece of the action.
You were correct in that a Range doesn't draw large amounts of current for hours at a time, but it's an even lower load than that. Ranges typically would only draw a maximum of 50A, if A: All burners on the cook top were on simultaneously, and B: the oven was not only on but actively heating. If you are cooking something in the oven for 4 hours, the element is only cycling on and off intermittently to maintain the set temperature.
I much prefer the box clamp style connection over the direct screw style for most connections. That includes 120V outlets as well, and you'll notice the same trend with those when comparing the economy / builder grade products to the industrial grade products.
Like you've said before I highly recommend hard wiring your EVSE unless you absolutely cannot.
Great video!
One thing that seems to be an ongoing issue is the size of the junction box. A standard one is too small. No one seems to know what product to use. The larger faceplate is easy to find but what about the actual box ?
Also easy to find.
Thanks Tom. I have a standard Leviton nema 14-50 outlet in my garage. I’m just using the cord that came with my lightning and not using any home charging unit. Is that plug sufficient or should I replace it with the industrial plug? Thanks
Something I discovered while charging is be aware of the appliances that are running in the house.
Other than having an extra appliance that turned off the main breaker, there have been no problems charging my Leaf.
Your install is not proper. You should not be tripping a breaker while charging.
@@tkmedia3866100%
Tom perhaps you could please recommend the right plug to be used in conjunction with the outlet and also the right cover plate along with the appropriate box to be used. Thanks.
He did, the Hubble outlet. You really want the EVSE wired in not thought an outlet.
Interesting fix up. I thought you would hard wire the unit but the downside of that if you move in the future you have to leave the charger behind
I’m a DIY guy and i just replaced my cheap Leviton outlet that the electrician installed. ( i had a good argument with that electrician about the receptacle, long story short, that company apparently went out of business.) anyway my friend who is an apprentice electrician and I swapped the receptacle and torqued it to the correct spec, which the licensed electrician didn’t even do. Shame on them. Make sure your electrician knows what she/he is doing!
Here’s a pro tip for all you DIYers like me. To fit receptacle in box, you must bend wires as needed. Always, do a final re-torquing before pushing wired receptacle in box. Those final wire bends will loosen the connection causing heat. Electricians refer to this as the “wiggle test.”
😢my lightning won't fit in my garage. Can I get a 3 way split system with 1 outside? 😅😊
Thanks, Tom. I'm wondering if the same problem can occur with Level 1 (120v) wiring and receptacles? For example, are there EV-rated Level 1 products?
There isn't an EV-specific 120v outlet that I know of. But if you are going to use it for home charging, I would suggest going to an electrical supply house (not a hardware store) and buying a high-quality industrial-grade outlet and swap out your existing outlet. Even then, open up the outlet at least once a year to check the connections.
There are higher grade nema 5-15r sockets at my local hardware store but honestly if it's a 20A circuit (and wires actually rated for 20A, no 14 gauge wires), install a 5-20R (which is the kind that can accept both 5-15P and 5-20P sockets, the latter is the one with a horizontal pin) since it's rated for 20A
@@TAWithiam Thanks! A quick internet search returns nema 5-20R receptacles ranging in price from $3 to $50. Perhaps you get what you pay for, just as Tom showed in the video with Level 2 receptacles.
I installed a Legrand outlet and it seems to be working fine. I did unplug it a few times over the first year to check for melting and found no issue. It has been installed for 2yrs now. If anyone has had issues with a legrand, please response if you see my message. My 2nd charger for my 2nd ev, I hard wired so no need to worry there.
My electrician installed a nema 14-50 but with a 60amp breaker. Can i set my eviqo plug version and set it to 48amps?
Why not to use disconnect switch with fuse like a/c connected?
Hi Tom, thank you for very informative videos, as always appreciate for your detailed explanations. I’m having issues with charging the IX for a few weeks now. What ever I do the iX is only pulling 9kw only. I even purchased few wall boxes same issue. I heard it can be charged 11 kw. I really want your opinion . I live in Staten Island 😊.
So what would the outlet look like if you only have 30amp service?
It would look the same
25:22 it actually appears that the Tesla is capped at 20 amps. Shows 20/20 A. Is the charging equipment communicating its max output to the vehicle, or is the vehicle configured to only accept 20A at that location?
The EVSE always tells the vehicle how much current is available using a signal on one of the small pins in the connector. The car can be set to draw less, but the max it should draw is what the EVSE signals it can supply.
Hi Tom Is there a way to install a dual charging port. I have a Ford Lightning and a Tesla Ydual model. Can I install one
So what is the condition of the 5-15 outlets and wiring? 😮😮 Those outlets and wires are stressed too when used for hours at a time.
its wild that this happens in the states, we have high power sockets in EU/UK, but i guess because those are only used for incredibly high power equipment it rarely becomes an issue, because y'all at 110/120v, anything even mildly powerful needs a 240v plug ,and there are so many. i could pick up effectively any 32a commando blue plug and be sure its fine, the fact you can buy a nema 14-50 and then go "wait is this not good enough" is kinda winld