History Primer Special Documentary
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- Опубликовано: 2 дек 2024
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
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Additional reading:
The Revolver 1818-1865
The Revolver 1865-1888
The Revolver 1889-1914
A.W.F. Taylerson
Geschichte und Technik der europäischen Militärrevolver Band 1 & 2
Rolf Müller
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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Animations by Bruno!
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This is how books are written. Ian has his French firearms, and Othais has revolver lockwork. Keep up the amazing work.
i'd buy one! :)
I think it will always be muddy waters though. Proving historic inventor A saw, or was aware of, inventor B's developments is tough.
@@shotforshot5983 indeed, especially in the days when comuncaition was slower (you had telegram and phone but to get an actual illustration or full patent in that way is not practical) combined with how much data has just been lost over time. In some cases military security, others the archives being burned or perhaps just poorly stored so the documents were damaged in storage.
Othias has said before he has neither the time nor inclination to write a firearms textbook, but would gladly help with/collaborate on one as a source.
@@planescaped No one has time for books, they happen nonetheless. What's going to get him in the long run is his massive collection of notes.
He's also stated that he has to write things down and take copious notes, to remember the material. Even his timeline he created for tracking lockwork patent law, is a massive portion of a book in and of itself.
He's already doing it, whether he thinks so or not.
Othaias, anyone who knows enough about the subject to care will both (1) understand your conundrum and (2) appreciate the effort you and Mae put into your research and factuality. That being said, I would like to shift the focus to more serious matters, and formally demand a guinea pig update; preferably one on Halloween with them wearing seasonally appropriate costumes.
Good point!
Priority's have to be right! Serious stuff first!
What we really need is some hand traps the guinea pigs can use. I am sure we could scale down the blanton for them.
You are legit turning from a content creator to an actual historian...
I think he crossed that bridge a long time ago...
@@silmarian yeah and I think his marbles were the toll 🤣
Othias evolved like Dewgong
@@seansimpson4472 There are no sane historians - they're good at hiding it until you reach their "favorite" topic.
@@FranzAntonMesmer I can only picture some old, wizened, Aristotle looking guy in a dress and pigtails.
At this rate Othias is going to go down in history as one of the most important firearms historians. C&R puts so much work in and i have thoroughly enjoy the well researched content put out. One of the best things on youtube and i hope they get this latest roadblock sorted with as little headaches as possible.
Indeed, i watch every video, even though i am not a firearms user or collector
hopefully someone is downloading all these videos and maintaining their archive - in some decades they will be historical sources in and of themselves
He's incredible. The massive contribution literally can not be denied it's right there on his channel. All for free too, what a guy am I right?
The C&Rsenal team is so vastly under appreciated. Top notch information that deserves respect and compensation.
Like most academics and historians you do it because you're passionate about it not because it makes money. Even the folks working in Academia on a university grant aren't exactly getting paid a mint to do this work.
This is the kind of episode that gets you the well-deserved major respect you have
The historian in me says that this is one of the best episodes yet.
(And there is a historian in me, I've even got a degree and made a bit of money with it, although that has nothing to do with firearms development. The poor little guy is running out of food, too.)
In Summary: I'm Othais and revolver history has massive holes in it that I'm frustrated with and also trying to fix. The fix needs a person that can access the French archives as well as Jonathon Ferguson to get ahold of Rolf Müller's personal notes to determine how Rolf got his information. In the meantime, Othais also needs people to do patent entry for his database to assist in this morass as well.
And a massage, I think Othais also needs a massage
and mustard
@@RyTrapp0 I'm partial to Othais getting a full mud bath treatment
This is a comment to stimulate the algorithm.
On a serious note, I really appreciate the work you all are doing. Also, I was very pleased with the Rifles of WW2 anatomy poster I ordered from your website, it looks great on the gunroom wall!
I watched it already on Patreon as well...
As a suggestion, it might be helpful to review clock parts and clock part naming conventions in order to decide which parts to name which. Some parts have exactly the same functions. For example, compare the work of Swiss revolver makers to the clocks made around that same period. They're probably using the same small forgings.
That is a reasonable and logically supported suggestion. You don't understand how the internet works.
@@darnacb a tip of the hat to you. always a pleasure to meet a fellow sarcastic s.o.b. .
That last part at 20:30 is the best thing you could do: admit what you don't know. That displays a level of integrity of intellect, emotion, and most importantly, ego. Thank you for that!
It’s fascinating how much history is lost in archives. Thank you for all this effort, hopefully that timeline gets sorted out.
Indeed, we take for granted just how new a concept it is to just look something up online and get at least a decently correct answer. Imagine trying to do what he is doing here when it takes days, weeks or even months to get from one archive to another.
Add in how many records have been lost as various governments have collapsed or been conquered over the centuries.
I know we are going to get some redos on some of these wheel guns and I am all for it, keep the history coming!
It’s not lost there, though.
@@borkwoof696 if nobody knows it then it’s as good as lost.
There’s trunks full of gold in the caves near Death Valley just sitting there but just like the knowledge in those archives it won’t do anyone any good until someone finds it.
@@scott_hunts there’s a key difference, though: the information is still available, the sources are still there. That’s a huge difference to the archive simply burning down.
not lost in the archives.....just hard to access
I have visited the Browning Arms Museum several times. My bookshelf has dozens of books referencing Browning-designed arms including vintage references--original Plattsburg manual, State Defense Force, and Blue Jacket's Manual.
Despite those resources, as new information turns up, the story of John Moses Browning changes.
Everything you see on popular media is 100% accurate unless you have first hand knowledge of the subject. That's apparently true no matter how deep you go. There might be 20 other people on the planet who've reached this far down this particular rabbit hole. I hope your work is available for hundreds of years for the rest of us.
I saw you comment supportively on a
Based AvE trucker convoy video and I just wanna say...
I love you even more.
If the past few years have taught me anything, certainty can be dangerous and the science is never settled. Keep up the good work!
Your efforts are really appreciated , regardless of discrepancies , Your production values have shone through from the start and You have never been shy about expressing your concerns regarding resources , even finding out apparently easy questions from recent history will have provide several varied & often conflicting opinions , so going back over a century or more is therefore that much more difficult . Thanks You all at C&R for all Your hard work .
In spite of the lack of Mae shooting, Bruno animation, and all the other stuff we've learned to love over the years, this was one truly fascinating episode. Keep up the stellar work.
The research process episode. Love it. The bumps in the road just go to show how important this research is!
To hear anyone even try to unravel the beginnings of the revolver while at the same time to maintain their integrity is a wonderful thing, so many don't. Thank you for your channel. I have been amazed by firearms for most of my life, and appreciate your explaining the history and the cycle by which they operate.
I love this episode. It supports my long-argued assertion that you are creating an historical resource of genuine value.
I appreciate the intellectual honesty it took to do this episode. Thank you!
this deep dive to revolver history and its evolutions warranted a book about it.
"This is an episode about the seemingly bottomless pit of unending self-doubt that research brings to the human soul." Oof. As someone who just completed an MA in history this past summer, I felt that.
Good to know the process of how you make the fine documentaries and comparisons you produce. Keep making good content, and I'll keep buying your shirts three at a time.
"I don't know" is an answer to the question. Don't be afraid to say it. But given how much work you guys are doing, I think you can add "yet" to that.
I've been watching since episode 1 and give what I can on patreon. Thanks for what you guys do. I rely appreciate the history and research. I once considered myself fairly knowledgeable on com-bloc SKS's...then I began to think about writing something on them. And it turns out I know about 10% more than "they are rifles". It's not easy and you find yourself staring down the deepest rabbit hole you can imagine. So kudos for the work you do.
Anyone who ever doubts your credibility need only look here. You are will to not only admit you were wrong but that you do not know the full answer yet. That kind of honesty is what has earned you the respect of your devoted followers.
Othais, don't let it get you down, history can be an ever evolving thing, new discoveries are made every day. The best you can do is stay abreast of things and update and correct things as needed.
You know you're becoming an expert when you start finding knowledge gaps in the most accepted source material. This sort of historical development is more than enough to write a book (I'm sure you've already considered that). Well done! You're contributing to the library of human knowledge!
I highly recommend Four Centuries of Liège Gunmaking by Claude Gaier. It was published in the 70s and provides some great background on the Liege gunmaking industry. I used it in my MA thesis on the global guntrade to the Ottomans.
It's refreshing to see someone interested in the truth of history and it's data. Keep being honest and diligent it always pays off. This channel has quickly become one of my favorites over the years.
I'm honestly envious of the work you've managed to put together. I'm trying to dig up one company here in the US in operation for less than 30 years, and you're punching holes into known firearms history.
Othias, all of you on the C&Rsenal team consistently exceed any expectations I may have. I trust that you will always do your best to get it right and let us know when things change. So please don’t worry about the time it takes to do actual research, we can wait. And seeing the amount of work you guys put in behind the scenes really blows me away how you can possibly put out two near feature length documentaries a month. So thank you and please keep up the good work.
Good to get a look behind the scenes and see how you conduct research and get these in depth videos made
I remember back when you said you didn't deserve any credit because you weren't a researcher, just a communicator. Now you've spotted and are challenging a giant hole in the established narrative of revolver history. I feel like a proud papa.
Thank You ! This proves that you have the integrity to put this out in the open without sweeping it under the rug.
A part of me feels guilty for how excited I got when I heard the words "this is an episode about the seemingly bottomless pit of unending self-doubt"
Othias your transparency with the viewers like us refreshing!! I appreciate this and your thought process. This research must be a constant nightmare and massive stressor, but your work is well appreciated by myself and your viewers. I’ll always tune in and like these videos
Othias, Othias, you are harder on yourself than anybody else ever could be. I enjoy all the content you guys create especially the repercussion series. I have never been disappointed by an episode from C&Rsenal. Thank you for all the hard work you put in. I wish I could give more than I do.
The amount Othais knows about revolver history dwarfs my knowledge of everything in my life.
Thanks
I would like to say this, I do not care if you meet your deadlines for posting videos, because I know the quality of content is always worth the wait, and am thankful of what y'all do. Y'all are amazing and I do hope you continue the amazing work y'all put out.
"and frankly bribing him with snacks" 😂😂
What does he prefer? We have to know. Cuddlefish or asparagus?
I appreciate all you pain and mental anguish. Please continue.
All your footage has been great help to me in my firearm design pursuits. There's a lot of old wisdom that you can still learn from when you're starting out.
You guys put a frankly unbelievable amount of time and energy into all of this. I appreciate that when new information comes up that contradicts what you said previously you analyze it and as seen here correct yourself.
One of the best demonstrations of intellectual honesty on the internet.
Thank you very much indeed.
I honestly watch for the history and engineering. I appreciate your openness about what's happening and the troubles researching this information is.
There's a line I love, forget where it came form or who said it (just like real love) but it goes...
"...And even if it is not true, you must believe ancient history."
Seems appropriate here.
Take your time. One of my favorite things about this channel is your dedication to getting it right. The developmental history is what I'm really here for. Mae shooting and the discussion about using the gun is great! I'm here for the history. Thank you so much for doing all that yall do, and keep up the great work!
Wow..... To say it is Hard to dig through archives is an understatement you have so many archives in so many languages. and lets not forget it is a cut throat industry so everyone is claiming they invented everything. you have the best history show on the internet period....
Thank you for caring to get it as correct as possible.
Wasn't the episode I was expecting but enjoyed it just the same
Very informative as always
This is giving me some flashbacks to my senior year mechanical engineering project where my group had two completely different parts labeled as both "fingers" and "arms" as well as two different parts labeled as "stoppers". One of these stoppers was one of the parts referred to as fingers as well.
Thank you Othias, for the research you and you crew do and trials you deal with to bring us this content!!
You guys are easily the most comprehensive and accessible source on everything you do by now! Thank you so much for caring about accuracies that, frankly, don't matter to anyone watching RUclips. And thank you for sharing your long and frustrating process. Glad to see where those Patreon dollahs are going. :)
This is one channel of a very , very few that I watch from start to ending weather or not it pertains to my interest. As someone in the comments said of Othias becoming a historian , possibly years from now they will use his videos as references . I had a chance to meet him once , talk with him & a photo of us together , such a great guy
C&Rsenal is one of the most impressive efforts in the realm of firearms history in our time. Keep up the good work and don't let anyone get you down. Your dedication to accuracy will be a godsend to future researchers.
I love your commitment to history and truth. Thanks for all the hard work and knowledge.
“I don’t know.” A simple statement that is increasingly rare to hear.
I’m curious as to which snacks J. Ferguson prefers…
Perhaps as a sequel to Crozier & Lewis’ berry 🫐🥭🥝🍓 preference test, we should have Jonathan and Ian compete under the same format… with various snacks set out and see which they crawl to 🥨🥜🧀🍿🥐
this!
Well, I applaud your work to sort out revolver history so far and wish you luck in not losing your sanity to this research hole
Othais, Long time Patreon
Most people don't understand history is written by the victors. So, we only get one side of the event.
Excellent job in uncovering a number of sides and please continue. I find the subject very interesting and you and your cast of characters entertaining.
Wish I could do more than offer encouragement.
Please keep up the good work...
Thank You for sharing what you have found so far.
Thank you, I appreciate you wonderful people
This is one of my favorite episodes of the series.
Othais, as confused as you may feel while waiting for these details, you're probably one of the most clued-in revolver historians on the planet right now. You're doing alright 🙂
Thank you for everything you and the gang do!
comment to appease the algorithm gnomes. this kind of attention to detail is why I'm a patron
Thank you for doing all this work you guys are great and we really appreciate it 😊
I continually appreciate the solid research you and your colleagues do. Truly you are laying the new groundwork for future understanding firearms development
Before primer, I had really little understanding of revolver history. I knew a little about colt and fair amount on s&w but thru the 40ish publicly available revolver primers I have learned a lot. About historic revolvers pre colt and smith, during their early era. Evolution and even how they still operate their revolvers today. Very thankful for all the stuff I was exposed to, even if not perfect a lot better picture of who did what, or copied and sold what/when it happened. Quite a rabbit hole but it was very fun to dive down. Look forward to any future wheel gun episodes ❤
Truly a fascinating dive into how complicated History can be.
I might rewatch this as soon as my ears stop bleeding.
Impressive work !
"I've seen your work Othais. I know you can't make anything under half an hour"
-Ian McCollum
Today he has been proven wrong
Muller's two volumes are superb. I've owned them for years along with the auction catalogue from when he sold his collection.
This is what integrity looks like! Thank you.
I'm one the folks who is really impressed by your quest for accurate information. I was especially struck by the commonalities to the difficulties experienced by all historians, that of finding original documentation, so, so often people who create content just quote Wikipedia. It also applies to books written by pre-internet authors, who often repeat earlier errors. Now, to be fair, the circumstances of traditional historians and RUclips content creators limit the time and resources available. So, good for you that you're making the effort.
Great content. Glad you are forthwith about your research. Also excited I got 1/10 of a second of fame in a "primer" for one of the revolver transcripts I submitted.
This is an opportunity to write the origin of the modern revolver!
Keep up the good work!
Hi, Chris “ with the stroke “ again, thanks for the presentation. This makes sense to me! You can’t know how it means to understand.
Awesome job Othais! Admitting that the sources you thought were valid may have errors, and then committing to finding the truth in the associated technological history takes a lot of intestinal fortitude.
Commenting to praise the amount of research for even a placeholder episode
Thank you Othais.
This is honestly the most interesting thing going on the internet rn . Real life discovery in almost real time that has real world implications thank you thank you thank you
I absolutely love this episode. I work in materials research and other things, and the amount of people who come up with a very similar solution and their own name and their own implementation, and then both systems get incorporated into a much bigger picture at different points and bla bla bla, engineers are very good at coming up with solutions for problems but everything else around that problem? Tough luck friend, best believe you’re gonna have three different names.
Man I can't wait for "[Obscure European Revolver] to Colt Python: Martial Revolvers, 18XX-1955 by Othais" in 10 years when this is finally sorted, only for a new mystery to invalidate everything a week later!
Othais, on my vacation stopped at Virginia Military Institute, which if you get a chance stop by. The selection of military weapons in the museum is unreal. Even a couple I had not seen or heard of. They have one of almost all that were used and trained with during the institutions conception. They have one of a kinds, like Gen Patrons rifle originally issued him! Also the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts in Richmond has numerous one of a kinds, you might want to stop and see.
Researching history is similar to physics research in that there is most certainly a right answer to a question, but you never actually know if you've arrived at it or not. I personally trust that this show, this whole channel, is going to give the best information available at the time of uploading.
Othias.....your a weird and smart dude and that's a great thing. The amount of firearms history you put out there is astonishing. I love to learn about history and thanks to you and others like you, I can. So thanks.
Love this content and the deep dives! Thanks for the hard work
I appreciate you Othais
Othais you got nothing to apologize about, Kevin on the other hand...
HURRY UP AND LET OTHAIS & MAE MAKE MORE HANDTRAP EPS!
It really makes you wonder just how much of collective human knowledge is based on incomplete, inaccurate, or completely false "facts" written down once and then copy-pasted repeatedly without question. Othais, you are doing a great service.
See, stuff like this -isode ate why I love this channel. Keep up the amazing work!
Appreciate the transparency, and try not to sweat it man. Accuracy in information is important, not the speed at which it comes out.
Keep up the great research and historical work! Well done sir!
Othais, I respectfully disagree. Someone could not do this better than you, because no one else is doing this. Lots of people say, someone else could do this better, but they aren't. So you are the best, you are doing the best job. You and your crew are excellent at this. Thank you for your service and these great historical videos.
Umm... I was concerned when I saw the thumbnail and it said "I DON'T KNOW!"
Ah, researchers block, and a whole mess of researchers conundrums...
We believe in y'all!
I just want to say I admire your dedication.