In Britain we had an interesting guy called Jack Hargreaves who's passion for all things old from the countryside was televised during the 1970s/80s. "Out of Town" and Old Country". Now those films can be found on RUclips which are so important, as lost skills and old tools can be seen used by those old professionals, now sadly gone. Mr Pete hopefully has many more years ahead, but yes, hopefully his skills will not be lost nor will he ever be forgotten.
My uncle was a machinist and tool & die maker in the navy. My Dad was a carpenter and home builder. Watching this channel reminds me of when I was knee-high, learning the trades early on.
I've always preferred the zero flute as well. Like you, I have a couple sets that are decades old. I'm amazed at how expensive even the Chinese sets have become over the years.
Great short video Mr. Pete Interesting info: The most commonly used chamfered angles are 82° and 90°. Imperial sizes per ASME B18.3, 82° is the standard and 90° is the standard per DIN 7991 for metric screws. 100° angles are most commonly used in aerospace applications and when fastening into softer materials as it distributes the pressure over a larger area than the 82° screw.
Yep. That's a very important distinction when making things for Metric vs Imperial fasteners. Cars and motorcycles come to mind. I was nearly finished with some parts I made for my motorcycle and discovered all my countersinks were 82 degrees. Not a 90 degree in the bunch.
aviation rivets use 100° + because of the thin material, so that the countersink does not enlarge the hole and it is required to leave a square margin on the hole and never a sharp edge that would happen with less angle.
Your surprise on the last piloted zero flute 😂. I agree! Must have been why they were tucked away hiding... cause you wanted those not getting worn out.
I wish you had explained about counterbores along with the countersinks, when I started working as a machinist back in the early 60’s they were confusing for me. As a old retired machine man I enjoy all of your videos Keep them coming . Thanks
Thank you Mr Pete. My dad used his dads brace & bit back in the 1950' s before he purchased a hand drill. First-time that I ever saw a wood counter sink for a brace & bit. Years ago I was a sparky in a large candy company where we weren't allowed to use plywood to mount our numerous electrical boxes so we would purchase 4 by 8' sheets of 1/4" thick aluminum plate and had it sheared down to various sizes. Over the years had to tap thousands of 1/4 by 20 holes in these p!ates. I always used a counter sink to make it easier to start stove bolts.
Great video as always Mr. Pete. Taking the time to explain something that we often take for granted, but that may seem mighty mysterious to a beginner hobbyist who finds a pile of these in a box of tooling they acquired for one reason or another.
Glad you mentioned the use of these for helping start of taps… that said, one of my primary uses of these, has been for the purpose of removing the “raised” portion of metal around a threaded hole, especially in cast iron, of older vintage or antique engine blocks & such, before or after “chasing” all existing threaded holes. The metal does begin to raise over decades of heat transfer expansion/contraction & WILL interfere with two milled faces of parts from sealing properly, with correct distributed pressure along gaskets in between fasteners. Chamfering away the top-most raised edge, allows space between both faces for gasket material to have greater torque applied to overall meat of parts, vs only exactly at each fasteners’ locations, eventually giving potential for leaks in zones between fasteners. One of the many engines I’ve rebuilt, was this super cool, itty-bitty 4 banger Waukesha, fully self contained generator, from 1942, military spec’d. It was made mostly of Aluminum or, some Aluminum Alloy. I intentionally installed HeliCoil threads in most of its original soft metal holes; very much needing a decent chamfer of those holes. I wonder if that little engine was bigger or smaller then then Crossly car engines back in the day? Anyways, THANKS Mr Pete for yet another fantastic internet shop tutorial !
My favorite handheld countersink deburring tool used to be sold by aircraft tool companies but seems hard to find now. It was a knurled aluminum screwdriver-like handle with a one-way Sprague clutch in it for 1/4 inch shaft. Any ordinary countersink would work in it with a 1/4 inch shaft. They cane with a 4 flute Severson. The one-way clutch is very convenient to use. Bearing shops sell Sprague clutches and they just press in like a bearing. It is a an easy build and a tool you will use often. Build one and try it. JY
I also use the few I have for deburring. I is interesting to see all the different types, and I found yur comments on the angles of particular interest. Thanks!
That is a great piece of information. I have,but one single flute countersink. It needs a lot of force to get a bite. Now the zero flute is very smooth and the cut seems very swift in aluminium, at least. I often grab a large drill bit. Thanks Mr. Pete
Mr. Pete- thanks for this video but I have a question. Why when I use a six flute countersink the countersunk portion of the hole is hexagonal and not round. That didn’t happen your demo. What am I doing wrong? Many thanks for all of your great videos.
Mr Pete! I enjoy your videos so much. I’m a small town guy and wish you lived just down the road as I’d love to hangout at your shop! Your videos are so well delivered and informative, as an ex educator I appreciate that. These videos should be used in schools!! Anyway keep up the good work!
@@mrpete222 that is brilliant! Unfortunately machine shop has gone on the back burner here. They wonder why young men struggle in schools now, hands on learning, concrete practical application that’s what it’s all about.
Thanks, I did not know that. But I was planning a very short video regarding the Weldon Shanks on milling cutters. Are used to have a very thick catalog from Weldon. I don’t think they are in business on a more.
Since I am primarily a woodworker I have never tried the zero flute, I am not sure how well it would work. Might be worth a try. Nice information Mr. Pete.
I concur with you descriptions and opinions....... I have experienced the same issues with the different styles..... My favorite are the Weldon zero flute.......
I've used most of the multi flute countersink configurations and found them all to be inferior to the 0 flute models. Not sure why anyone would bother with anything else as they don't chatter and produce the cleanest surface finish!
Not a metal worker but I have several countersinks with the through hole that I use for wood. I didn't know they are suitable for metal as well. Thanks.
Yesterday, I needed to chamfer the edges on an aluminum part I just made on my mill. I could not find my chamfer tool, so I stuck a countersink bit in the mill and used it as a chamfer milling cutter. Worked a peach. Sometimes we just have to think out of the box.😂❤
Very interesting short video and comparison! I use the Granlund sets a lot as well. Fairly expensive but worth it. Another type I have seen advertized but not used is where the cutting edges are unevenly spaced to eliminate chatter. Would love to see a video about them.
I often wondered if the cutting edges were not arranged evenly spaced, that that would eliminate the chatter. Incidentally, I have a 5 flute. When I get chatter, it leaves a 6 'sided' counter sunk shape. I think what ever the count of cutting edges the tool may have, when the chatter occurs, the resulting shape is that count plus one.
Great video. Thanks! I never knew there was that much to countersinks. I honestly thought which type you used was just personal preference or maybe the needs of the job.
THANK YOU LYLE PETERSON.... "chatter free"... I also dispute those comments. U R SOOOO MUCH FUN LYLE>>> Until next time.... again thank you very much (so glad you are doing what you do!!!) .. TM
I use single flute counter sinks at work. I have to debur before tapping. Problem is the holes are laser cut and leave a very hard rim at top of hole wears out flutes very fast leaves a chip grove in cutting edge . when send them out to be resharpened. we are cutting 1026 steal plate from 3/16 to 1/2" thick. tapping 10/24 to 1/2-13 🪛🔩
We would sharpen the zero flute in the lathe with a tool post grinder. Save a bunch of them and do them in a batch. I seem to recall the really cheap ones were only surface hardened... This video countered my sinking feeling 😜
I have proper countersinks now. When I was a kid though, my pop showed me how to counter sink wood projects. He would simply use a drill bit the size of the screw head to make a counter sink, then use the drill size you needed for the actual screw size. The Chamfer counter sink bit made it a breeze to center the fastener drill bit. Does that make sense how I explained it?
![ARGENTINA vs. PERÚ [1-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 12](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xtI25ENDDSY/mqdefault.jpg)
“I pitch them when they are dull.” I don’t believe that for a minute.
Tubalcain, Thank you for your great videos.
Zero flute with and without pilots are my favorite, always seem to produce a nice countersink
Thank you, Mr. Pete. Your knowledge will live forever on the Interwebs!
👍👍
In Britain we had an interesting guy called Jack Hargreaves who's passion for all things old from the countryside was televised during the 1970s/80s. "Out of Town" and Old Country".
Now those films can be found on RUclips which are so important, as lost skills and old tools can be seen used by those old professionals, now sadly gone.
Mr Pete hopefully has many more years ahead, but yes, hopefully his skills will not be lost nor will he ever be forgotten.
I agree I think it’s great he’s passing his knowledge forward thanks for sharing
My uncle was a machinist and tool & die maker in the navy. My Dad was a carpenter and home builder. Watching this channel reminds me of when I was knee-high, learning the trades early on.
👍👍👍
There is 54 years in these 10 minutes. Thank you sir for your generosity.
👍👍
All my life in engineering/ fitting and still learning , still seeing new things 😂 Thank you for sharing your knowledge .
Thanks for watching!
I've always preferred the zero flute as well. Like you, I have a couple sets that are decades old. I'm amazed at how expensive even the Chinese sets have become over the years.
Totally agree!
Good morning Lyle and everyone else. A simple but required information for the metal shop. Well done Sir.
Thanks 👍
Great short video Mr. Pete
Interesting info:
The most commonly used chamfered angles are 82° and 90°. Imperial sizes per ASME B18.3, 82° is the standard and 90° is the standard per DIN 7991 for metric screws. 100° angles are most commonly used in aerospace applications and when fastening into softer materials as it distributes the pressure over a larger area than the 82° screw.
Thank you for that additional information
Yep. That's a very important distinction when making things for Metric vs Imperial fasteners. Cars and motorcycles come to mind. I was nearly finished with some parts I made for my motorcycle and discovered all my countersinks were 82 degrees. Not a 90 degree in the bunch.
aviation rivets use 100° + because of the thin material, so that the countersink does not enlarge the hole and it is required to leave a square margin on the hole and never a sharp edge that would happen with less angle.
Morning gents, Mr. Pete
Morning sir
12 ounces of coffee and a big helping of Mr. Pete are the important parts of a healthy breakfast.
lol
Your surprise on the last piloted zero flute 😂. I agree! Must have been why they were tucked away hiding... cause you wanted those not getting worn out.
Thank you Mr. Pete.👍👍👍
Great video! I would love to see a video on sharpening those 0 flute tools.
I wish you had explained about counterbores along with the countersinks, when I started working as a machinist back in the early 60’s they were confusing for me. As a old retired machine man I enjoy all of your videos Keep them coming . Thanks
I have one coming up on counter bores. It is already finished and ready to publish, but I might be a few weeks.
Thanks Mr.Pete I learn something every time
Of the types that I've tried I like the zero flute the best for both metal and wood.
Thanks Mr Pete we were just talking about these the other day I agree the zero flute if ran slow does a nice job.
as an apprentice we did a stainless checker plate floor countersunk all by hand 500+ holes felt like popeye every day of that job
We have been thoroughly countered and sunk. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
👍
Well done. That last one produced some huge chips!
Thank you Mr Pete. My dad used his dads brace & bit back in the 1950' s before he purchased a hand drill. First-time that I ever saw a wood counter sink for a brace & bit. Years ago I was a sparky in a large candy company where we weren't allowed to use plywood to mount our numerous electrical boxes so we would purchase 4 by 8' sheets of 1/4" thick aluminum plate and had it sheared down to various sizes. Over the years had to tap thousands of 1/4 by 20 holes in these p!ates. I always used a counter sink to make it easier to start stove bolts.
👍👍
Mr Pete thank you for all your help in video instructions R.simmos .
You are very welcome
Great video as always Mr. Pete. Taking the time to explain something that we often take for granted, but that may seem mighty mysterious to a beginner hobbyist who finds a pile of these in a box of tooling they acquired for one reason or another.
Thanks for sharing
Glad you mentioned the use of these for helping start of taps… that said, one of my primary uses of these, has been for the purpose of removing the “raised” portion of metal around a threaded hole, especially in cast iron, of older vintage or antique engine blocks & such, before or after “chasing” all existing threaded holes. The metal does begin to raise over decades of heat transfer expansion/contraction & WILL interfere with two milled faces of parts from sealing properly, with correct distributed pressure along gaskets in between fasteners. Chamfering away the top-most raised edge, allows space between both faces for gasket material to have greater torque applied to overall meat of parts, vs only exactly at each fasteners’ locations, eventually giving potential for leaks in zones between fasteners. One of the many engines I’ve rebuilt, was this super cool, itty-bitty 4 banger Waukesha, fully self contained generator, from 1942, military spec’d. It was made mostly of Aluminum or, some Aluminum Alloy. I intentionally installed HeliCoil threads in most of its original soft metal holes; very much needing a decent chamfer of those holes. I wonder if that little engine was bigger or smaller then then Crossly car engines back in the day? Anyways, THANKS Mr Pete for yet another fantastic internet shop tutorial !
👍👍👍👍👍
I have a brand new wood countersink in the box that I had no idea how to use it with the weird end on it! Now I know the weird end goes in a brace!
You're obviously still a Spring chicken .😊
Yes
Right On! 🙌 Thanks Mr. Pete! Always great to watch your videos!
Thanks for watching!
They will all chatter, speed and sharpness are the secrets. Nice demo enjoyed.
Yes, I wish I would have said that in the video
My favorite handheld countersink deburring tool used to be sold by aircraft tool companies but seems hard to find now. It was a knurled aluminum screwdriver-like handle with a one-way Sprague clutch in it for 1/4 inch shaft. Any ordinary countersink would work in it with a 1/4 inch shaft. They cane with a 4 flute Severson. The one-way clutch is very convenient to use. Bearing shops sell Sprague clutches and they just press in like a bearing. It is a an easy build and a tool you will use often. Build one and try it. JY
👍👍
I still have mine. NWA 95-05.
Thank you Mr Pete. I had not seen the ones with the pilot until now. Have a great weekend.
Thanks, Mr. Pete 👍
Thanks Mr. Pete, that’ll sink in. 😁
I also use the few I have for deburring. I is interesting to see all the different types, and I found yur comments on the angles of particular interest. Thanks!
👍👍
Outstanding video! Like you, I am a fan of the zero flute. I do keep a couple carbide single flute around for use in stainless steel.
That is a great piece of information. I have,but one single flute countersink. It needs a lot of force to get a bite. Now the zero flute is very smooth and the cut seems very swift in aluminium, at least. I often grab a large drill bit. Thanks Mr. Pete
👍
Thanks! I have used the fluted type, but not the zero-flute. Those look very effective!
Excellent video mrpete.I hope you are getting better weather around Lake Michigan.Thank you.
I hope so too!
Piloted zero flute looks good Lyle , have a nice day .
I has a few sets of the countersink ones with the pilot and I thought they were only for wood. They were my fathers. Thank you for clearing that up.
Thanks for the information.
Mr. Pete- thanks for this video but I have a question. Why when I use a six flute countersink the countersunk portion of the hole is hexagonal and not round. That didn’t happen your demo. What am I doing wrong? Many thanks for all of your great videos.
I've seen the zero flute countersink called a snail countersink in British catalogues. Excellent video packed with information, thanks Lyle.
Mr Pete! I enjoy your videos so much. I’m a small town guy and wish you lived just down the road as I’d love to hangout at your shop!
Your videos are so well delivered and informative, as an ex educator I appreciate that. These videos should be used in schools!!
Anyway keep up the good work!
Thank you very much. My video courses are used in many schools.
@@mrpete222 that is brilliant!
Unfortunately machine shop has gone on the back burner here. They wonder why young men struggle in schools now, hands on learning, concrete practical application that’s what it’s all about.
Love the brace idea Lyle, will be putting that to good use at our Men's Shed.
Go for it!
I have always like your shop made counter sink handles. I'm doing that TODAY. Enough wishing and dreaming. Thanks for the primer.
👍👍👍👍
Great video. MSC’s Big Book is a great reference source. I am old school and prefer my aged paper copy to looking it up on line.
Totally agree!
Thanks Mr. Pete, great little video, I always learn something from your tutorials.
Again, thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it
I am a zero flute man they work great, thanks for the video kind Sir
Mr. Weldon designed that countersink with the hole. Probably my favorite type of c'sink.
Thanks, I did not know that. But I was planning a very short video regarding the Weldon Shanks on milling cutters. Are used to have a very thick catalog from Weldon. I don’t think they are in business on a more.
Thanks Mr Pete. That was instructive. Gilles
What you have there Mr Pete is the perfect amount of countersinks.
lol
Great video Mr Pete
Thanks, very informative, as usual.
Agreed, you can never have too many countersinks.
Thanks Mr Pete for another great class.
Since I am primarily a woodworker I have never tried the zero flute, I am not sure how well it would work. Might be worth a try. Nice information Mr. Pete.
Zero flutes work very well on woodworking projects. No tear out at all.
Thank you for taking the time to make these videos. My children will hopefully speak of their “RUclips shop teacher” some.
👍👍👍
One point you missed: 82° is the standard for inch fasteners, 90° for metric, and 100° for the special fasteners for thin material used in aircraft.
I concur with you descriptions and opinions.......
I have experienced the same issues with the different styles.....
My favorite are the Weldon zero flute.......
👍
Nice one Lyle, thanks
Great video Mr. Pete! I had no idea there were so many different styles of counter sink! Thank You! 😁👍
Glad it was helpful!
Good morning Mr Pete!
Morning!
I've used most of the multi flute countersink configurations and found them all to be inferior to the 0 flute models. Not sure why anyone would bother with anything else as they don't chatter and produce the cleanest surface finish!
👍
Not a metal worker but I have several countersinks with the through hole that I use for wood. I didn't know they are suitable for metal as well. Thanks.
I like uniflute. In my experience, the biggest factor in chattering is speed. Most people run countersinks WAY too fast.
True
Yesterday, I needed to chamfer the edges on an aluminum part I just made on my mill. I could not find my chamfer tool, so I stuck a countersink bit in the mill and used it as a chamfer milling cutter. Worked a peach. Sometimes we just have to think out of the box.😂❤
Thank you, I will try that
Good one Mr. Pete ! Love those zero flute ones !
ATB....Dean
Morning everyone!
Very interesting short video and comparison!
I use the Granlund sets a lot as well. Fairly expensive but worth it.
Another type I have seen advertized but not used is where the cutting edges are unevenly spaced to eliminate chatter. Would love to see a video about them.
👍👍
I often wondered if the cutting edges were not arranged evenly spaced, that that would eliminate the chatter. Incidentally, I have a 5 flute. When I get chatter, it leaves a 6 'sided' counter sunk shape. I think what ever the count of cutting edges the tool may have, when the chatter occurs, the resulting shape is that count plus one.
wonderful Mr Peterson.....best wishes, from Florida, Paul
Thanks for listening
Very informative thank you for sharing.
👍
I too use a brace and countersink for debuting tapped holes. Not much besides the noga blade do any good for the 12” diameter bores.
Wow, 12 inch diameter, lol
Excellent. The best channel on YT.
Wow, thanks!
Aerospace uses Micro Stop Countersink Cages to set flush fasteners at tolerances like +0.002"/-0.005" to the surface.
👍👍
Great explanations. I learned something as always.
Brian from Ma.Great video I just finished a project today and had a few haloes to debur thanks for lesson Besafe
Sounds great!
You must have prewarmed up that last hole on the plate so it cuts like butter!
The ones with a hole can be sized to cut toward the hole, great for wood.
Thank you 😊
Really handy.
Great video. Thanks! I never knew there was that much to countersinks. I honestly thought which type you used was just personal preference or maybe the needs of the job.
Hey mr pete do you have any videos on how to machine extremely hard materials?
No
THANK YOU LYLE PETERSON.... "chatter free"... I also dispute those comments. U R SOOOO MUCH FUN LYLE>>> Until next time.... again thank you very much (so glad you are doing what you do!!!) .. TM
I appreciate that
I was waiting for this video!
😀
Great demo, but can you buy a countersink with a homing device, as I'm forever misplacing them?
No, you cannot. You just have to buy lots of them.
@@mrpete222 10mm is probably the best idea, as to saturate all those nooks and crannies. =D
I use single flute counter sinks at work. I have to debur before tapping. Problem is the holes are laser cut and leave a very hard rim at top of hole wears out flutes very fast leaves a chip grove in cutting edge . when send them out to be resharpened. we are cutting 1026 steal plate from 3/16 to 1/2" thick. tapping 10/24 to 1/2-13 🪛🔩
Nice. I hear the 5 flute chatters badly.
We would sharpen the zero flute in the lathe with a tool post grinder. Save a bunch of them and do them in a batch. I seem to recall the really cheap ones were only surface hardened...
This video countered my sinking feeling 😜
lol
Great video. It's looks real good. 👍👍
Thank You
Good Morning Mr Pete!!!
The Tennessee Mole Man
👍🇺🇸🍊🍊🍊
Hello there!
At 3:08, 90 degrees is mentioned. Can someone explain, please. I don't see 90 degrees working... turning 60 today, maybe it's a senior moment.
Good stuff as always
I have proper countersinks now. When I was a kid though, my pop showed me how to counter sink wood projects. He would simply use a drill bit the size of the screw head to make a counter sink, then use the drill size you needed for the actual screw size. The Chamfer counter sink bit made it a breeze to center the fastener drill bit. Does that make sense how I explained it?
Yes it does, thank you good idea
Good lesson, Have I heard the Fluteless csk described as a Scotch bit or am I confused/ wrong?
Never heard of the term
my Father always called the ones a Weldon countersink !
👍👍
How well does the pilotless ones work on steel?
Very well as long as the steel is relatively soft. Of course you have to apply more pressure. There are carbide countersinks for harder steels.
When i get chatter I put a paper on the hole and cut through it that will take the chatter out
I need to try that