Actually don't think so. In dota 2, there are also urn-like objectives that spawn every 7 minutes, and there are heroes that can tp anywhere on the map to take them. Therefore, I don't think it will get nerfed if Icefrog style of balancing is to be expected. If everything is unbalanced, then everything is balanced.
amthematically he is not very strong , only thing very strong is the bullet resist reduction on scarabs , shiv was dealing 800 dmg with his 2 at 5 minutes anyone knew he was broken
melee transition into Spirit sounds like a very smooth build curve. 1+melee does so much damage and helps with jungle so much since the melee charge buff. Late game you fish for 3 stacks and you’ll at least get a lot of random damage that helps keeping the health low. You can even use ult to teleport to enemy marked by your 3 if you need to
I ended up missing melee alot with the tornado, its much worse than i thought because sometimes they are too high above and you cant control how fae the tornado goes
Dont know if this works, but since extra burst basically adds the damage to the ability and is not a separate dmg tic, can it be multiplied by the passive? So if you get a 4x you get 140 dmg?
it doesn't work like that, it's 35 damage flat. If it applied to each instance individually you'd need 1 stack to deal 75 damage which isn't happening anyway
It appears not in the sandbox. It looks like Burst doesn't interact well with any of his abilities. Tornado is too low damage, scarab life steal doesn't trigger burst, which might be a bug, and Djinn's Mark takes way too much effort to proc burst. Quicksilver doesn't contribute to overcoming the damage threshold either.
@@EmperorSigismund i dont think the scarab lifesteal is a bug. they could have easily just made it do damage and then heal you for that damage but they specifically made it steal max health instead which makes it not trigger burst
@@fabian9819True to their word is basically true to their promises. If they didn't give a time line or promise of events and updates In the first place then they didn't break their word/promise.
Quicksilver seems to make sense with high ammo count, since you'll be able to get stacks, pop skill early for free reload, go right back into getting stacks
Massive respect for switching to a game not for the money, but for the love. Especially since this content doesn't do super well, but it hopefully will be better when the game releases.
thank you! actually funnily enough I make more money from these videos than I ever did in Valorant because the RPM is much higher on longer videos and older/more american audience + I dont have to spend $200 on Valorant skins per video! People usually just look at numbers but are forgetting things like the difference between daily uploads and 2-3 vids per week. All good though I am just happy to share my passion either way!
@@AverageJonas It's the thoght though, I would expect switching from 200k to 20-40k average views would be a tough choice. Glad to hear these do better though, keep on keeping on.
i think your supposed to use the ult to chase enemies, your 3 reveals them on the map so if you stack procs on them and get them low you can ult them when it expires and reveals them
i think we just need to find the right build/playstyle… i do also think this character needs a few QoL tweaks. cancellable tornado, maybe adjust how the multipliers stack up for 3, etc.
I think instead of 2 doing 0 damage if you hit it again it could just do less and less damage or something, he feels very lacking in the damage department rn, even though he might be more of a "support"
@@eternalsence3033 definitely agreed. u can barely tell when ur 2 hits and it feels like it does nothing. idk maybe there’s some mechanic about it thats actually broken and we just havent discovered it yet, but thats my first impression
Umm bullet resist shred and immediate HP pool increase in large amount once you get some spirit scaling. You can get 1-2k health very easily and on a decently low cooldown. And because you can buff both cooldown and duration of the HP steal you can perma have it online. Add leach, barriers, and the decent damage of his gun and 3 in duels or team fights and he is very good@@Mr_BB_Man
His pre-release ult is different from this release version I think it's similar to Holliday's ult in that it CCs multiple enemies? Might be misremembering
He had two previous ults before. Originally, it was a tether between 3 enemies that took damage equally by damaging one person. Next ult was a huge AoE bomb that launched forward and was able to be detonated.
@thechosenone3852 that seems so hamfisted though. You'd need to be in the fight already to be applying the 3 stacks. And if they run away, letting the stacks explode and revealing themselves, by the time you'd actually arrive after the channel the enemy would be sprinting and dashing away. It's just weird. You could put the "grant vision" part of the 3 to the scarabs or the sandstorm skill, it's still going to feel like a forced synergy.
A very useful thing is surge of power on 3 since you can activate ito out of combat for a constant speed boost while it also benefits from the bonus spirit.
Throw pick, better on 2 with the better HP steal scaling and can use on minions or camps for mobility as well as faster clears. With duration and cooldown you can farm a big up pool from neutral camps and catch waves and rotate while being able to engage on any fight all tanked up and ready with your ult
@@plary_ Only not only, the additional channeling time they gave the echo shard makes it nearly impossible to do the hook -> uppercut -> bomb -> echo shard -> bomb combo cause the enemy is too far away at that point
I suspect he'll be used as a hard split push/neutral farm since teleport lets him join the fight quick. He may also be used as an alternative to Refresher Dynamo, except his combo will be Tornado + Echo Shard. Enemies can respond, but Mirage gets it once per 15 seconds while Dynamo gets it once per 180. Fire Beetles feels terrible with the projectile drop and being unable to hit the same target multiple times. I think it should be changed from charge-based to a flat cooldown, and the cooldown is reset if it hits a target that isn't currently affected by its bullet resistance debuff. That would give a similar effect, but it allows for crazy spam if you're in a target rich environment and it can hit twice in a 1v1 at the cost of going on cooldown if you miss. Skill 3 feels terrible because it's 10-12.5 seconds before the payoff occurs no matter what. There's three fixes I can think of: 1. Let the ICD be affected by cooldown reduction and reduce the ICD from 2.5 to 2. 2. Change the T3 upgrade into "reduce the ICD by 1.25 seconds" 3. Allow Tornado and Fire Beetles to apply stacks independent of the ICD. The first means you can build into it with spirit. The second just makes it a decent ability while also stopping the T3 from nerfing the delay to getting the reveal/maximum damage from 10 to 12.5 seconds. The third encourages comboing by reducing the time required from 12.5 second to 2.5-5. Without getting these fixed, he's going to be hardstuck support. Should probably stack mobility and survivability while focusing duration on Tornado after getting Echo Shard. Maybe do a -% bullet res stack so teammates can splatter whoever you catch faster.
I immediately thought high fire rate and weapon damage with richochet. Youg et the stacks on the bullet bounces and when you 1v1 you can pop them up in the air and headshot them liek Wraith does but do it more often. Thats my guess without having a chance to play yet.
I don't know why you thought the whole time that enemies hit with tornado can't be shot with bullet damage? I guess you red the description wrong and it was already stuck in your mind that day.
No because the old mirage was like that before they released him! I tested all the unreleased heroes a while back, and thats also how the same spell works in DOTa
Seems like could be a "screw this hero in particular" kind of guy. Buy a bunch of active items that counter a specific enemy on the other team, then teleport to them and end their whole career on cooldown.
@@eternalsence3033 FR. I’m loving this character and seeing so many people calling him weak makes me happy because it gives me a higher chance to play him😂
His first skill is busted, global TP is always good, so they made the other skills mid to compensate. He will prolly be played as support with echo shard for double tornado for 5 seconds of CC
you obviously saw support seven build and unironically thought it was a good idea, i dig the echo shard but dont turn him into support he has insane peel potential with scarabs/passive
His animations look like if stiff and unfinished. Scarabs for example are just these rotating bugs lol. They don't even disappear as you lose stacks of it and his evasion effect just turns him black? Lol seems fun though exited to try him
I think the best way to deal damage on him is gun and just rapid spam his 3. The damage multiplier means nothing because if you proc it off every bullet then you’re doing 20x the damage in a single clip, as opposed to waiting 10 seconds to get 8x the damage. And this way you just quick silver reload to have infinite ammo. Very poorly thought out kit
It feels odd to me that they remade Mirage's whole model but didn't add a special gun model for him, and he's still using the default animation. On the other hand, Holliday looks much more finished and unique but not fully released yet. I'm pretty sure that they're not just gonna add character skins, but also separate gun skins too. Valve gonna farm more money from skin economy potential of this game.
To be honest Viscous is still just kelvins gun as well, I feel like they felt pressured into releasing a new hero and he will probably see some more change in the future!
lol its a skill issue. 26:50 Im horrible at the game and went 21 and 7 first game as Mirage. No hate just use your 2 more the scarabs do alot of self healing
SBMM exist in this game, your matchmaking level could be different than his and vice versa. i've watched Mikaels struggling when he tried mirage for the first time even tho he is a beast in deadlock.
This hero seems super mid and unfinished. And that's fine because the game is still in alpha, but there are a couple things that are making me tense: 1. His weapon. It feels like it's kind of out of place. It's just like Haze's, a la UZI with a huge silencer, but without the cool reload animation and only one. Each character has a unique and interesting weapon (Pocket's shotgun with unique reloading like a winchester, Abrams' shotgun revolver, etc.), but it's like he has the most boring weapon of them all. I hope they change it. 2. Not all characters need to be combo characters, but his ability set is confusing - is he an initiator? carry? How do you combine him with other characters and their abilities? So far his ability set looks very strange.
I think he can't have too much of an impact if his team doesn't, he seems like a character that can snowball the team's lead but won't be doing that if his team is behind.
If you have questions about Deadlock or want to see more gameplay/theorycrafting, don't hesitate to join my daily streams on twitch.tv/averagejonas
okay using the ult to insta take the urn will be nerfed lmao
Actually don't think so. In dota 2, there are also urn-like objectives that spawn every 7 minutes, and there are heroes that can tp anywhere on the map to take them. Therefore, I don't think it will get nerfed if Icefrog style of balancing is to be expected. If everything is unbalanced, then everything is balanced.
@@bachpham6862it was already hotfixed
@@bachpham6862 terrible game design philosophy + it already got donked
"This might be a skill issue but I don't think he is that strong"
This will age like Milk 100%.
Happy to be proven wrong tbh!:)
amthematically he is not very strong , only thing very strong is the bullet resist reduction on scarabs , shiv was dealing 800 dmg with his 2 at 5 minutes anyone knew he was broken
@@MrRafagigapr in a competitive environment the ability to TP might be very usefull though
The scarabs are similar to Paradox’s rail gun. Busted AF.
melee transition into Spirit sounds like a very smooth build curve. 1+melee does so much damage and helps with jungle so much since the melee charge buff. Late game you fish for 3 stacks and you’ll at least get a lot of random damage that helps keeping the health low. You can even use ult to teleport to enemy marked by your 3 if you need to
I ended up missing melee alot with the tornado, its much worse than i thought because sometimes they are too high above and you cant control how fae the tornado goes
breh tf did i watch? you just swapped games at 32:11. If I watch 32 mins of anything you best believe I want to see the end of it.
Dont know if this works, but since extra burst basically adds the damage to the ability and is not a separate dmg tic, can it be multiplied by the passive? So if you get a 4x you get 140 dmg?
@@brokendoopby 4 stacks do you mean 4x or 8x
@@brokendoop improved burst deals max health damage not set damage
it doesn't work like that, it's 35 damage flat. If it applied to each instance individually you'd need 1 stack to deal 75 damage which isn't happening anyway
It appears not in the sandbox. It looks like Burst doesn't interact well with any of his abilities. Tornado is too low damage, scarab life steal doesn't trigger burst, which might be a bug, and Djinn's Mark takes way too much effort to proc burst. Quicksilver doesn't contribute to overcoming the damage threshold either.
@@EmperorSigismund i dont think the scarab lifesteal is a bug. they could have easily just made it do damage and then heal you for that damage but they specifically made it steal max health instead which makes it not trigger burst
so they stick true to the1 hero per month thingy
They got like 20 loaded in the chamber. Light work for Valve I guess
Valve generally speaking is a good company they stay true to there word more then not
@@WeGameMate They stay true to their word for sure. As to when they do that is completely impossible tot tell
@@WeGameMate absolutely not lmao, dota 2 had a lot of things delayed without a word from valve
@@fabian9819True to their word is basically true to their promises.
If they didn't give a time line or promise of events and updates In the first place then they didn't break their word/promise.
Quicksilver seems to make sense with high ammo count, since you'll be able to get stacks, pop skill early for free reload, go right back into getting stacks
yep! QSR on 3 is great! Surge of Power too
Massive respect for switching to a game not for the money, but for the love. Especially since this content doesn't do super well, but it hopefully will be better when the game releases.
thank you! actually funnily enough I make more money from these videos than I ever did in Valorant because the RPM is much higher on longer videos and older/more american audience + I dont have to spend $200 on Valorant skins per video! People usually just look at numbers but are forgetting things like the difference between daily uploads and 2-3 vids per week. All good though I am just happy to share my passion either way!
@@AverageJonas It's the thoght though, I would expect switching from 200k to 20-40k average views would be a tough choice.
Glad to hear these do better though, keep on keeping on.
@@AverageJonas Even that in itself is more "noble" per se, than doing the creatively easier option of just doing consumer content.
i think your supposed to use the ult to chase enemies, your 3 reveals them on the map so if you stack procs on them and get them low you can ult them when it expires and reveals them
Ooh thats a pretty cool idea!
i think we just need to find the right build/playstyle… i do also think this character needs a few QoL tweaks. cancellable tornado, maybe adjust how the multipliers stack up for 3, etc.
I think instead of 2 doing 0 damage if you hit it again it could just do less and less damage or something, he feels very lacking in the damage department rn, even though he might be more of a "support"
@@eternalsence3033 definitely agreed. u can barely tell when ur 2 hits and it feels like it does nothing. idk maybe there’s some mechanic about it thats actually broken and we just havent discovered it yet, but thats my first impression
Umm bullet resist shred and immediate HP pool increase in large amount once you get some spirit scaling. You can get 1-2k health very easily and on a decently low cooldown. And because you can buff both cooldown and duration of the HP steal you can perma have it online. Add leach, barriers, and the decent damage of his gun and 3 in duels or team fights and he is very good@@Mr_BB_Man
36:43 "duration increases distance?" *all nearby relativity physicists perk up*
I like him but to me his ult feels so out of place for his kit but its still cool.
His pre-release ult is different from this release version
I think it's similar to Holliday's ult in that it CCs multiple enemies? Might be misremembering
He had two previous ults before.
Originally, it was a tether between 3 enemies that took damage equally by damaging one person.
Next ult was a huge AoE bomb that launched forward and was able to be detonated.
his 3 reveals enemy on the minimap, so it synergies with his ult. doesn't feel out of place to me.
@thechosenone3852 that seems so hamfisted though. You'd need to be in the fight already to be applying the 3 stacks. And if they run away, letting the stacks explode and revealing themselves, by the time you'd actually arrive after the channel the enemy would be sprinting and dashing away. It's just weird. You could put the "grant vision" part of the 3 to the scarabs or the sandstorm skill, it's still going to feel like a forced synergy.
not gonna lie I never thought they would add more heroes. i thought the lineup was set in stone like team fortress 2..... i fkin love deadlock so far
A very useful thing is surge of power on 3 since you can activate ito out of combat for a constant speed boost while it also benefits from the bonus spirit.
Throw pick, better on 2 with the better HP steal scaling and can use on minions or camps for mobility as well as faster clears. With duration and cooldown you can farm a big up pool from neutral camps and catch waves and rotate while being able to engage on any fight all tanked up and ready with your ult
pristine emblem seems just kinda mandatory now lol
Shadow fiend + nature prophet the hero!!
Shadow demon*
Don't forget phoenix! Fire scarabs = Fire spirits :D
his E is shadow demon and his ult is basically dawnbreaker without the heal and damage.
the tornado is like sandking stun? idk
I think mirage's ult is more like spectre's ult :(
Speaking of Melee Mirage - it looks like his 1, 2, AND 3 can all animation cancel out of a Heavy Melee.
what is the "s value" on the right side of screen
just a bug! goes away after a bit
I played him a couple times but focused on a frontliner type build focusing on rotating with ult
I think a spirit build with echo shard for the tornado is very strong on him, but we will have to see what people cook up
bro just holding his scarabs for next game kek
THE SCARABS ARE SO WEIRD TO USE TO ME IDK 😅
@@AverageJonasjust aim
@@AverageJonas me with vindictas crow i almost never use it😂
Jonas they killed bomb beebop with the new updates to echo shard 😢
only 0.3 seconds
@@plary_ Only not only, the additional channeling time they gave the echo shard makes it nearly impossible to do the hook -> uppercut -> bomb -> echo shard -> bomb combo cause the enemy is too far away at that point
@@dobrvnskithey are not as long as u buy mystic reach :)
Yeah I had no problem with double bomb. The delay sucks, sure, but with reach the build is still viable
Only a little nerf but tbh echo shard is so underutilized i don't see why it deserves to be nerfed.
I suspect he'll be used as a hard split push/neutral farm since teleport lets him join the fight quick. He may also be used as an alternative to Refresher Dynamo, except his combo will be Tornado + Echo Shard. Enemies can respond, but Mirage gets it once per 15 seconds while Dynamo gets it once per 180.
Fire Beetles feels terrible with the projectile drop and being unable to hit the same target multiple times. I think it should be changed from charge-based to a flat cooldown, and the cooldown is reset if it hits a target that isn't currently affected by its bullet resistance debuff. That would give a similar effect, but it allows for crazy spam if you're in a target rich environment and it can hit twice in a 1v1 at the cost of going on cooldown if you miss.
Skill 3 feels terrible because it's 10-12.5 seconds before the payoff occurs no matter what. There's three fixes I can think of:
1. Let the ICD be affected by cooldown reduction and reduce the ICD from 2.5 to 2.
2. Change the T3 upgrade into "reduce the ICD by 1.25 seconds"
3. Allow Tornado and Fire Beetles to apply stacks independent of the ICD.
The first means you can build into it with spirit. The second just makes it a decent ability while also stopping the T3 from nerfing the delay to getting the reveal/maximum damage from 10 to 12.5 seconds. The third encourages comboing by reducing the time required from 12.5 second to 2.5-5.
Without getting these fixed, he's going to be hardstuck support. Should probably stack mobility and survivability while focusing duration on Tornado after getting Echo Shard. Maybe do a -% bullet res stack so teammates can splatter whoever you catch faster.
Idk if you talked about it later in the video but QSR is really busted on him since you shoot 1 bullet immediately ability 3 and reshoot them
Genie protector my new goat
I played my first game with him and went 27-0. So either he's OP or just no one is used to him yet.
Melee build with emphasis on -bullet resist.
I immediately thought high fire rate and weapon damage with richochet. Youg et the stacks on the bullet bounces and when you 1v1 you can pop them up in the air and headshot them liek Wraith does but do it more often. Thats my guess without having a chance to play yet.
he's so sick to play, already made a first iteration build
I feel like there is in theory three ways to build mirage, max hp stealing tank, spirit damage, debuffer
This is tf, but in deadlock. Build Spirit. Build Cdr. Gank other lanes with your burst combo using your 3 as an execute.
Torment pulse is the best choice for him. Try it
I tried it in game 2!
Oh 😂
0:03 MIRAAAAAGEUUUMM
I don't know why you thought the whole time that enemies hit with tornado can't be shot with bullet damage? I guess you red the description wrong and it was already stuck in your mind that day.
No because the old mirage was like that before they released him! I tested all the unreleased heroes a while back, and thats also how the same spell works in DOTa
@@AverageJonas ok, that makes more sense now
Ricochet goes nutty with this guy
I wonder if you should go for ricochet.
echo shard on mirage, makes them stuck in the air for so damn long. go CDR and knock down. just tp in and knock up -> stun -> knock up haha.
Hahah this actually sounds fun LMAO
Seems like could be a "screw this hero in particular" kind of guy. Buy a bunch of active items that counter a specific enemy on the other team, then teleport to them and end their whole career on cooldown.
Spectre in another dimension..
I can’t wait for when Wrecker comes out💀
Jonas I think you need to add something at 32:10 and not just jump cut into the next game. Looks hella confusing.
Thanks for the feedback ill let editor know!
Thought holliday was much more finished and exciting.
Hold your horses pardner, posse's on its way! Some things just need a bit more spit and polish.
Waiting for the bebop echo shard vid... sad day for bebop mains
Coming soon don’t worry!
Great New Deadlock hero - Mirage
Jonas definitely needs to get used to the ult. He could've killed so many enemy heroes by just sneaking up on them using the ult.
Its alot to take in when learning a new hero hehe
every game i played with him today i dominated in hes so fun i found a build called mirage spirit cancer
Ye same, i just played him twice with a hybrid build and went 17/3 and 15/2 you can spam 3 so often its insane
@@eternalsence3033 FR. I’m loving this character and seeing so many people calling him weak makes me happy because it gives me a higher chance to play him😂
debuff reducer definitely hinders mirage skill 3
Jini in Arabic mean ghost. So maybe he know bocket
That ult is busted icl
He kinda feels hella mid tbh. But we’ll see down the line.
His first skill is busted, global TP is always good, so they made the other skills mid to compensate. He will prolly be played as support with echo shard for double tornado for 5 seconds of CC
echo shard tornado ;) havent lost a game
Valve really found a way to trick FPS players into playing Dota
Are you playing witn Weak3n?
No, Red from Valorant/Dark and Darker!
Wow he is so high 😂
lifesteal i was saying allll video ahahah
I think echo shard/ duration build for tornado is better. Its almost a wraith ult, if not better. Heavy Stun Mirage
you obviously saw support seven build and unironically thought it was a good idea, i dig the echo shard but dont turn him into support he has insane peel potential with scarabs/passive
@@Xmenjade Stun seven was unironically the strongest way to play seven. Dunno about now though.
@@godlyvex5543 I disagree playing seven with peel and a built 3 was better in general unless the enemy team doesn’t know how to space properly
@@gabecastillo1634stun seven was busted in high elo. Im gonna test melee seven today since u can self cast stun 😂
His animations look like if stiff and unfinished. Scarabs for example are just these rotating bugs lol. They don't even disappear as you lose stacks of it and his evasion effect just turns him black? Lol seems fun though exited to try him
They look stiff and unfinished because they are stiff and unfinished. Game hasn't come out yet...
Now i know why dota 2 feels abandoned valve focus on their new game deadlock xD
You know Valve will never add a 3 at the end of a game name, but this _is_ basically DOTA3.
@@GeorgeNoiseless yes i can see the similarity xD
Can instantly teleport urn cross map. Better nerf Kelvin
I think the best way to deal damage on him is gun and just rapid spam his 3. The damage multiplier means nothing because if you proc it off every bullet then you’re doing 20x the damage in a single clip, as opposed to waiting 10 seconds to get 8x the damage. And this way you just quick silver reload to have infinite ammo. Very poorly thought out kit
Fixed
@@larssorensen5251how so
Is the frog anti cheat real?
yep
It feels odd to me that they remade Mirage's whole model but didn't add a special gun model for him, and he's still using the default animation.
On the other hand, Holliday looks much more finished and unique but not fully released yet.
I'm pretty sure that they're not just gonna add character skins, but also separate gun skins too. Valve gonna farm more money from skin economy potential of this game.
To be honest Viscous is still just kelvins gun as well, I feel like they felt pressured into releasing a new hero and he will probably see some more change in the future!
no way
lol its a skill issue. 26:50 Im horrible at the game and went 21 and 7 first game as Mirage. No hate just use your 2 more the scarabs do alot of self healing
SBMM exist in this game, your matchmaking level could be different than his and vice versa. i've watched Mikaels struggling when he tried mirage for the first time even tho he is a beast in deadlock.
This hero seems super mid and unfinished. And that's fine because the game is still in alpha, but there are a couple things that are making me tense:
1. His weapon. It feels like it's kind of out of place. It's just like Haze's, a la UZI with a huge silencer, but without the cool reload animation and only one. Each character has a unique and interesting weapon (Pocket's shotgun with unique reloading like a winchester, Abrams' shotgun revolver, etc.), but it's like he has the most boring weapon of them all. I hope they change it.
2. Not all characters need to be combo characters, but his ability set is confusing - is he an initiator? carry? How do you combine him with other characters and their abilities? So far his ability set looks very strange.
I think he can't have too much of an impact if his team doesn't, he seems like a character that can snowball the team's lead but won't be doing that if his team is behind.
Guy thinks hes Shen
this guy is just broken. laning with this guy just doesn't make sense.
other dude talking is so whiny half the time my god
W
First
First W vid
Is this guys' content supposed to actually be average? He looks like he has no idea how to play deadlock
...it's a new character that just dropped bro lmao
his name is funny because he is actually a lot better than average