Hello hello everyone, Inquisitor Vuln here and in this video I want to talk a bit about the future of the Grey Knights range. Like and subscribe for more content!
Do not use GW rulesets. Buy their minis if you like but do not use their flawed rulesets designed solely to sell more minis. Play OPR instead for instance.
The lore of the Primaris is also pretty tame, they were supposed to be better than first born, but they get killed just like first born did, only those characters that cross the Rubicon really benefit from the power up
Aside from a few characters all basic Grey Knight infantry are the same boxes they released back in 5th edition: the standard variants, the Terminator variants and the Dreadknight. That's only three boxes, which should not be too difficult to replace with their Primaris variants. Though I would not be surprised if the Primaris Dreadknight ends up looking even dumber.
I think they could roll them into Agents of the Imperium, since I think the Grey Knights are tainted by bad lore and they have such crossover in terms of a similar feel with other more popular armies like Black Knights and Custodes
I think the terminus decree is actually revealed in the final HH novel by Dan Abnett, but I don't think it'll take much of a stretch to make it a specifically anti-Grey Knights weapon if they wanted to discontinue them. But overall, I agree with you, I don't understand why the Primaris were introduced without being carefully retconned like other new factions. For example, the custodes, the drukhari, the Tau and more recently The Leagues of Votann, were all introduced via retconn and are excellent fits for the game. But the Primaris were in statisis for 10K and just suddenly appeared in 40K moving the story forward. Why? I can't help but think it would've been better to have added them by making it like they were always there. Perhaps the 2nd founding wasn't just about breaking up the legions but was also about going Primaris. The Sangprimus Portum may have been one of the Emperor's many contingency's for the Long War, given to Cawl who used it to create the final SM upgrades. That way by 40K all the chapters would be breaking down, geneseed slowly degenerating, etc. Everything would still be in line with the theme of "forget the promise of science and technology because too much has been lost never to be relearnt." There could still be first born marines (to account for those players) relegated to specialist functions, or stubborn and refusing to cross rubikon, semi-renegades, etc. So much room for cool inter-imperial-strife type of lore. But instead we have new breeds of space marines in 40K going on crusade? It seems like a lazy copy of 30K Great Crusade Era. They could also retconn the primarchs as coming and going. I.e. Guilliman was poisoned and so goes into stasis for millennia to stave off its effects but isn't just waking up in 40K for first time. The Lion takes no orders from the High Lords and does his own thing with a dedicated faction of Dark Angels. The Khan comes and goes from the webway on mysterious missions, hardly engaging with the Imperium. Etc, etc. Rumoured sightings of Russ with the mutant 13th company for players to collect, etc. So much lore is possible. I hope the above makes sense, but what I'm saying is that IMO a careful retcon, which GW had always done really well in the past, would've been the best way to release the Primaris range.
It’s a business they had to come up with a way to put a reason in the narrative for the different sized models. But now that a good amount of the models are in the new scale there’s no longer a reason for the Distinguisher. it was a brilliant, marketing and business move
GW f'd up with primaris marines. They should have just kept them as refreshed space marines and everyone would instead be looking forward to their favourite marine models refresh instead of wondering if their army and collection is going to be invalidated. GW forgot a fundamental aspect of 40K that is that they are a collectables style toy first and foremost. The rules could be played with bits of card with the name of the model on. People get the models to collect the army. Now we are wondering what they will do, do they double down and get rid of armies or do they backtrack to keep the older armies available. We know where one option leads - its what they are doing with AoS at the moment as they are almost seeming to try and reverse and bring back Warhammer fantasy with The Old World while simultaneously getting rid of support for newer models in AoS. To deal with the bloat of having to maintain too much, I think the smart choice would be to make grey knight spacemarine expansion sprews for the standard primaris models and the new terminator models then just refresh the couple of character and baby carrier models when needed. This essentially ignores the primaris marines and counts them as a refresh - like they should have done originally. Otherwise they start dropping armies which is what everyone is worried about. Getting rid of armies is a sure-fire way to cause a lot of collectors to stop collecting and it is the "whale" collectors that buy most of the models ultimately just like with microtransactions in computer games.
100% agree. I literally started a GK army because I love their lore and the look of their wargear. I've long been wondering what will happen with them ever since the first primaris marines came out. edit: BTW, I'm one of the fans that doesn't actually play the tabletop game. I am just a big fan of the universe lore, and enjoy building and painting dope models.
The Primaris marines were the reason why I got into 40K. I couldn’t stand the heroic scale of the models with the big arms and heads, so I never got into it. But once the Primaris models came out, and the scaling was corrected and they looked like actual people, I was hooked. Lore-wise, I like the first born more, but I thank the Primaris marine models for getting me into 40K.
I agree with you about all the stuff of the primaris and first born marines, that's why I like a lot more the adeptus custodes (& they are cheaper soldiers).
The CEO of GW plays Grey Knights, so I doubt it will ever be discontinued 😀 The CEO's PA's main job is to keep on tweaking the rules to give Grey Knights an advantage on the Table Top.
it makes sense. And it is a conversation similar to what my friends and I talked about when they dropped 8th and the Primaris range. I would like to see where it goes honestly.
It is rumored that the Agents of the Imperium codex might get released this summer. I wouldn't be surprised if Deathwatch and Grey knights detachments will go there.
I think GW is big enough, they could go either way. Primaris marines are over saturated and we see in the film industry, peddling nostalgia sells. I don't see them getting rid of Grey Knights, they'll probably get a range refresh because marines just sell, it's why we have the Horus Heresy and why it's doing so well (The rules for it are superior in almost every way to 10th ed. also). What I see for marines in the future is probably more in universe content that expands the borders of known into the vaguely known. A maybe a "Horus Heresy 2.5" that takes place in the Great Crusade or a system afterwards that essentially is essentially a tweaking of a "Great Crusade" system. I think this would serve as a good alternative for the nostalgic and a way of back pedaling on the radical changes between the 7th edition line of thought and where the game went with the coming of 8th. As for the matter of the GK themselves, I don't see it. AoS is a mixed received setting and system. I don't have any experience with it, but I see it that people that like the game and those that say "it's not for me" and I've seen people who like the setting and stories and those who hate it. To me, it's still a system without a cemented legacy and that's why they can do this. The Grey Knights though have been around longer than AoS as a game has been around, nevermind their sorcerer specific faction. Would I like to see a heroic final stand for the Grey Knights? Yes, as well as many other marine chapters and factions like the Necron's or Eldar, it's why I like the Iron Hands and Ferrus Manus so much, but I just don't see it happening with the GK
The new sternguard are primaris. They wear tacticus, and a helmet swap doesn't change that. Also the "Chaplain" is first-born, he wears mk5 and 6 armor.
Oh yes definitely but by " ambiguous " with the Sternguard, I mean using elements of older armor designs (like the helmets). Though it was obvious that the chaplain was in firstborn armor, GW told us it could be used as either. For context.
I came back into the hobby during 9th, the range refresh for space marines really drew me back in there mere bigger easier and cleaner models for the hobbies most popular faction. Grey knights could have the same their a great army they just need some support like Voldus and Crowe are some of the best models in my opinion and their not even "Primaris" if their units had same love they would be even more popular im sure like Custodes and Marines
It's difficult to decide what to collect because no one knows what Games Workshop is going to do next. I was really considering buying a Grey Knights army but I don't trust GW.
Really it should have been an upgrade to the armor alone, instead a total replacement of "first born" Marines, GW should have just called it an upgrade to the admittedly flagging design of the MK VII Aquilla pattern armor and left it at that.
Why's this suprising? From tabletop, fighing games, online games, to shows and most e media proprieties. it's normal for newest thing to be more powerful than the originals. He seems he never once thought about how much money GW risks doing a range refresh . It's not hyperbolic to say 40k may nor be here be here right now. Ir was obvious they were going to rebalance the old space marines and slowly drop the Primaris title after these were no longer factors driving sales. Yes, if's sad he had to deal with some Primaris players acting like asshioles, but that's true for every game. The way he won't let it go, Though the way he's acting makes me wonder if it wasn't something he brought on himself. If that's who you reach out to,, don't complain when that's who you get
Mate your content is normally great, this however is really silly. The GK have been in play for over 20 years, I bought GK in my late teens and I am now in my 40's, they dedicated a huge section of the HH to the formation of the GK and they are not going anywhere soon! Love the channel though!
Do not use GW rulesets. Buy their minis if you like but do not use their flawed rulesets designed solely to sell more minis. Play OPR instead for instance.
I can see Grey Knights folding into an Agents of the Imperium faction along with Deathwatch. Their range could be dropped a lot in the process.
Like you say, they'll likely be discontinued, then re-launched in Primaris scale, and the sales will make up for any loss of goodwill.
I actually think they could be discontinued, removed and replaced by the Exorcists.
@@inquisitorvuln you're a clown.
The lore of the Primaris is also pretty tame, they were supposed to be better than first born, but they get killed just like first born did, only those characters that cross the Rubicon really benefit from the power up
Aside from a few characters all basic Grey Knight infantry are the same boxes they released back in 5th edition: the standard variants, the Terminator variants and the Dreadknight. That's only three boxes, which should not be too difficult to replace with their Primaris variants. Though I would not be surprised if the Primaris Dreadknight ends up looking even dumber.
I think they could roll them into Agents of the Imperium, since I think the Grey Knights are tainted by bad lore and they have such crossover in terms of a similar feel with other more popular armies like Black Knights and Custodes
Oh, that would be interesting! I think I'd like that
I think the terminus decree is actually revealed in the final HH novel by Dan Abnett, but I don't think it'll take much of a stretch to make it a specifically anti-Grey Knights weapon if they wanted to discontinue them.
But overall, I agree with you, I don't understand why the Primaris were introduced without being carefully retconned like other new factions.
For example, the custodes, the drukhari, the Tau and more recently The Leagues of Votann, were all introduced via retconn and are excellent fits for the game. But the Primaris were in statisis for 10K and just suddenly appeared in 40K moving the story forward. Why?
I can't help but think it would've been better to have added them by making it like they were always there. Perhaps the 2nd founding wasn't just about breaking up the legions but was also about going Primaris. The Sangprimus Portum may have been one of the Emperor's many contingency's for the Long War, given to Cawl who used it to create the final SM upgrades. That way by 40K all the chapters would be breaking down, geneseed slowly degenerating, etc. Everything would still be in line with the theme of "forget the promise of science and technology because too much has been lost never to be relearnt." There could still be first born marines (to account for those players) relegated to specialist functions, or stubborn and refusing to cross rubikon, semi-renegades, etc. So much room for cool inter-imperial-strife type of lore.
But instead we have new breeds of space marines in 40K going on crusade? It seems like a lazy copy of 30K Great Crusade Era.
They could also retconn the primarchs as coming and going. I.e. Guilliman was poisoned and so goes into stasis for millennia to stave off its effects but isn't just waking up in 40K for first time. The Lion takes no orders from the High Lords and does his own thing with a dedicated faction of Dark Angels. The Khan comes and goes from the webway on mysterious missions, hardly engaging with the Imperium. Etc, etc. Rumoured sightings of Russ with the mutant 13th company for players to collect, etc. So much lore is possible.
I hope the above makes sense, but what I'm saying is that IMO a careful retcon, which GW had always done really well in the past, would've been the best way to release the Primaris range.
It’s a business they had to come up with a way to put a reason in the narrative for the different sized models. But now that a good amount of the models are in the new scale there’s no longer a reason for the Distinguisher. it was a brilliant, marketing and business move
GW break the lore?
Let's talk about the 13th Black Crusade(2003) and the 13th Black Crusade(2017).
ha! true, true I forgot about that
GW f'd up with primaris marines. They should have just kept them as refreshed space marines and everyone would instead be looking forward to their favourite marine models refresh instead of wondering if their army and collection is going to be invalidated.
GW forgot a fundamental aspect of 40K that is that they are a collectables style toy first and foremost. The rules could be played with bits of card with the name of the model on. People get the models to collect the army. Now we are wondering what they will do, do they double down and get rid of armies or do they backtrack to keep the older armies available.
We know where one option leads - its what they are doing with AoS at the moment as they are almost seeming to try and reverse and bring back Warhammer fantasy with The Old World while simultaneously getting rid of support for newer models in AoS.
To deal with the bloat of having to maintain too much, I think the smart choice would be to make grey knight spacemarine expansion sprews for the standard primaris models and the new terminator models then just refresh the couple of character and baby carrier models when needed. This essentially ignores the primaris marines and counts them as a refresh - like they should have done originally.
Otherwise they start dropping armies which is what everyone is worried about. Getting rid of armies is a sure-fire way to cause a lot of collectors to stop collecting and it is the "whale" collectors that buy most of the models ultimately just like with microtransactions in computer games.
100% agree. I literally started a GK army because I love their lore and the look of their wargear. I've long been wondering what will happen with them ever since the first primaris marines came out.
edit: BTW, I'm one of the fans that doesn't actually play the tabletop game. I am just a big fan of the universe lore, and enjoy building and painting dope models.
An expansion of units available to grey knights would be nice.
The Primaris marines were the reason why I got into 40K. I couldn’t stand the heroic scale of the models with the big arms and heads, so I never got into it. But once the Primaris models came out, and the scaling was corrected and they looked like actual people, I was hooked. Lore-wise, I like the first born more, but I thank the Primaris marine models for getting me into 40K.
Yeah, alot of people got into the hobby through the Primaris and that's valid.
I agree with you about all the stuff of the primaris and first born marines, that's why I like a lot more the adeptus custodes (& they are cheaper soldiers).
The CEO of GW plays Grey Knights, so I doubt it will ever be discontinued 😀 The CEO's PA's main job is to keep on tweaking the rules to give Grey Knights an advantage on the Table Top.
it makes sense. And it is a conversation similar to what my friends and I talked about when they dropped 8th and the Primaris range. I would like to see where it goes honestly.
It is rumored that the Agents of the Imperium codex might get released this summer. I wouldn't be surprised if Deathwatch and Grey knights detachments will go there.
Yeah I agree. I think that would be cool
@@inquisitorvuln Yup, I hope for a Adeptus Arbites detachment.
I think GW is big enough, they could go either way. Primaris marines are over saturated and we see in the film industry, peddling nostalgia sells. I don't see them getting rid of Grey Knights, they'll probably get a range refresh because marines just sell, it's why we have the Horus Heresy and why it's doing so well (The rules for it are superior in almost every way to 10th ed. also).
What I see for marines in the future is probably more in universe content that expands the borders of known into the vaguely known. A maybe a "Horus Heresy 2.5" that takes place in the Great Crusade or a system afterwards that essentially is essentially a tweaking of a "Great Crusade" system. I think this would serve as a good alternative for the nostalgic and a way of back pedaling on the radical changes between the 7th edition line of thought and where the game went with the coming of 8th.
As for the matter of the GK themselves, I don't see it. AoS is a mixed received setting and system. I don't have any experience with it, but I see it that people that like the game and those that say "it's not for me" and I've seen people who like the setting and stories and those who hate it. To me, it's still a system without a cemented legacy and that's why they can do this. The Grey Knights though have been around longer than AoS as a game has been around, nevermind their sorcerer specific faction. Would I like to see a heroic final stand for the Grey Knights? Yes, as well as many other marine chapters and factions like the Necron's or Eldar, it's why I like the Iron Hands and Ferrus Manus so much, but I just don't see it happening with the GK
The new sternguard are primaris. They wear tacticus, and a helmet swap doesn't change that. Also the "Chaplain" is first-born, he wears mk5 and 6 armor.
Oh yes definitely but by " ambiguous " with the Sternguard, I mean using elements of older armor designs (like the helmets). Though it was obvious that the chaplain was in firstborn armor, GW told us it could be used as either. For context.
@@inquisitorvuln I know, also he's a Castellan. But there are people who vehemently argue he is primaris.
Imagine that Grey Knight sacrifice themself and return as Emparor demons like Legion of Damn :D
I came back into the hobby during 9th, the range refresh for space marines really drew me back in there mere bigger easier and cleaner models for the hobbies most popular faction. Grey knights could have the same their a great army they just need some support like Voldus and Crowe are some of the best models in my opinion and their not even "Primaris" if their units had same love they would be even more popular im sure like Custodes and Marines
It's difficult to decide what to collect because no one knows what Games Workshop is going to do next. I was really considering buying a Grey Knights army but I don't trust GW.
Simple answer - yes.
Great work.
All I know is GW won't miss an opportunity to sell new models. Keeping that in mind makes the answer very clear. It's just a matter of when.
Really it should have been an upgrade to the armor alone, instead a total replacement of "first born" Marines, GW should have just called it an upgrade to the admittedly flagging design of the MK VII Aquilla pattern armor and left it at that.
Why's this suprising? From tabletop, fighing games, online games, to shows and most e media proprieties. it's normal for newest thing to be more powerful than the originals. He seems he never once thought about how much money GW risks doing a range refresh . It's not hyperbolic to say 40k may nor be here be here right now. Ir was obvious they were going to rebalance the old space marines and slowly drop the Primaris title after these were no longer factors driving sales. Yes, if's sad he had to deal with some Primaris players acting like asshioles, but that's true for every game. The way he won't let it go, Though the way he's acting makes me wonder if it wasn't something he brought on himself. If that's who you reach out to,, don't complain when that's who you get
I will cry.... i just finished my Gray knight army😭 and love them. Not to mention all the money😑
A new scale like the horus heresy marines and chaos marines would have been so much better than the lack luster (to put it mildly) lore of primaris.
James workshop delenda est
😂 do it!
Mate your content is normally great, this however is really silly. The GK have been in play for over 20 years, I bought GK in my late teens and I am now in my 40's, they dedicated a huge section of the HH to the formation of the GK and they are not going anywhere soon! Love the channel though!