Fantastic video. A bit disappointed Etterna wasn't mentioned here since it illustrates/exemplifies a decent amount of the points you made (and much better than SM5 lol), but nonetheless, it's great to rhythm game content being pushed a step further for once in terms of production/passion. Hope to see more.
I think osu really did most of this perfectly. Haveing such a low skill floor and a basically infinite skill ceiling makes the game attractive towards most people. Also the global and regional ranking system takes the competitiveness of the game slot higher
well if we're gonna get technical about it, almost everyone has used a mouse in their life, so osu!standard basically circumvents the initial difficulty of getting a player acquainted with the input mechanism of the rhythm game by using something that people already know how to do. compare that to games like DDR/stepmania, where its not intuitive which foot needs to press which panel, corresponding to the column on screen, so theres that extra bit of muscle memory that needs to be developed before you can really play the game.
The pp system may be flawed at some extent but it keeps a lot of players engaged with the game. I got into osu! because of anime songs and kept going because it's simple to understand your improvement with the pp system
@@jojobanana_539 your not wrong, if your good at one style of map its easy pp, but honestly it could be alot worse and something as universalistic as the scoring system is so hard to balance because every map is different
It's obvious to say it out loud, but one big part of accessibility is having a wide range of difficulties. In Osu, a map can only be approved for rankings if it has a spread of difficulties, including a lower one. This way, a new player can collect maps they like and have a decent chance of completing them, then can upgrade to the included higher difficulties as they improve.
Yeah, as a fairly casual rhythm game player, it’s so frustrating seeing a song I like and want to play have a chart, but only for expert++ difficulty. Osu’s great in that regard.
whered you get that info from? theres no need for a mapper to make a lower difficulty for accessibility if they dont want (and its not a ranking criteria either)
I am truly thankful that Etienne posted about this. Extremely detailed, and the visual aids and explanations are top notch. This appeals to veterans a newbies of rhythm games alike. Can't wait to see more. Liked, subbed, and will signal boost as much as I can. Fantastic content!
also, the interesting thing about rhythm doctor's community that we've had the level editor for actual YEARS before the game released in early access. it really kept the community alive while the devs continued to work on the game
I agree I wish there were more sight reading tournaments. It's not that memorization is less impressive it's just a different skill set that we don't get to see highlighted very often in rhythm games
this stuff's quality is the stuff that could be in the millions of subscribers, thank you so much for putting in the hard work to make a very informative and entertaining video to watch
a quick correction; (it’s not significant) Sight reading is the ability to do very good or achieve a high combo upon the first time playing the map, whereas the “ability to telegraph notes and see what is coming up” as you said, would simply be ‘reading’
@@pryn.darkstorm You still wouldn't know the note placements even if you know the song. Yes you know the rhythm, but given the fact that even for basic songs on VSRGs you still have the option of the column to place it on, it only gives you an understand on when to perform an action. This does help, especially on very rhythmically complex songs, though knowing the arrangements on a map help more basically almost every time
9:30 slight correction: osu!'s current "main/stable" release which is basically the original poorly optimized 2007 client updated every once in a while is still closed. however, osu!lazer, a new version of the game being made from the ground up, is open source
however, there is a huge amount of community feedback and consideration. the most notable example is how the pp and difficulty systems are completely open-source and made by community members.
@@brinds7374 bad take. osu!laser runs a lot better than stable and it is finished for the most part, you can play maps there, the only thing that still isnt doable is score submission but it seems we're nearing that point. Regarding the pp system, its not perfect as you would expect, but they're always improving it. You cant make a perfect scoring system to account for player skill.
Lazer runs much worse on my own comp, but I have an integrated GPU ig. I can get up to 400fps on osu! while even 120 is lucky on lazer, with lag spikes on top. for me, switching completely to Lazer would be horrible :
@@Waterwolf221 lazer is great but mania is SO broken, and being someone that pretty much only plays mania when I do play osu! it makes me just have to use the standard client in wine.
Hi! I'm the producer of UNBEATABLE, and I figure I'd provide a fun insight on the community content aspect - if it wasn't for someone making a custom level of Proper Rhythm (a song from that game) in Rhythm Doctor all the way back in 2019, we wouldn't had been acquainted with that team and the crossover between both games wouldn't had happened :)
After finding your game on Steam through Tokaku's suggestion, I became quickly drawn towards it because of the interesting storyline and visuals. I'm just glad that you guys are still doing more and more collabs which keeps the hype and engagement up for the game. Realy like how it's like a mix of Taiko and Mania with some differences, since it really sets it apart from the other rhythm games by being unique.
4:28 Just a note on this, Spin Rhythm XD has since fixed this, as now it awards an accuracy bonus for each note based on how far off from 0 ms the note was hit, with 150 ms giving no bonus.
Looking cool is definitely a huge factor in rhythm games. The reason I started playing 7key rhythm games(o2jam, BMS, mania) is because even the intermediate charts looks so cool.
And not only only that, I've realized that most 4k-made rhythm games nowadays don't even require you to let go of LNs at the end within fractions of a second. Examples are Stepmania, it has holds instead of LNs and FnF, which is literally another stepmania.
@@Cobalt985, the arrows UI of fnf looks similar to the default noteskin of Stepmania(from DDR), but *I was referring to the idea of holds, how fnf was able to use the DDR inspired idea of holds and implement it into the game just like what Stepmania kinda did.* And not LNs like O2JAM. Unless if you take into account other features such as mines, course mods, so forth, then they are not to be compared
@@ky3532 4k rhythm games never did require a release timing. that was until osu!mania introduced it, but that's only because osu!mania was made with games like o2jam and -bms- *IIDX* in mind, which do have release timing.
"No person plays rythm games for story" CyTus II players: uuuuh.... Coming from etienne, nice vídeo, super high quality Edit: :0 this is the first time I get +100 likes, thanks people.
yeah lol, part of the reason why i was so hyped for progressing in Deemo and loving that game in general was actually story. Great first rhythm game in the life experience
4:47 I disagree that DDR having tight timings for the highest score pushes away new players. If you're at the point where you're aiming for an AAA score on a high difficulty then you stopped being a new player a long time ago. To help new players, having lower difficulty levels and loose timings (but not too loose) is what "good" and other step grades less than perfect are for.
These two videos on Rhythm Games were very well made, informative, interesting and fun to watch. I think it is a missed opportunity you did not dive into the aesthetic side of Rhythm Games, as that usually is what draws me to them. Boring lanes usually don't satisfy me, but when I see adorable baby seals rolling rhythmically (Rhythm Heaven) or some over the top Galactic Rock Star Guy fighting off UFOs with sick riffs (Guitaroo Man) I am sold. Lots of Rhythm Games became famous not for their Gameplay, but their Style or Visual Identity, so I feel that is worth tapping into, even if not fundamentally different from other game genres. Another Point worth discussing is using rhythm elements in other game genres, as you have briefly done whith mentioning crypt of the necrodancer. Great Job! I am excited to see what you delve into next.
@@Atlessa There is a PSP Version with a bit of extra content, which I suppose is easier / cheaper to track down than a new PS2 Version or Console. I highly doubt we'll get another Port though, as sad as that is.
my main forte IS rhythm games and my god this is probably the best analysis video on what makes a good rhythm and what it should have to make it a good rhythm game. And it was the best choice to use Rhythm Heaven as an example for what notes they should take of what Rhythm Heaven does better than most rhythm games at all honestly. because Rhythm Heaven has a such a unique and almost flawless design that it makes perfect use to use an examples. Everything in this video is correct and these were something I also took not of also about how dead rhythm games exist because they lack any community support to help them make there game better or even help them make the game for them essentially. It blows my mind that rhythm doctor is trying to make this blind accessible. That is a pretty damn big leap for a rhythm game. The only thing I sort of disagree with is tempo changes but that's only really because I think they can be cool. I'm someone who plays rhythm games for the sake that they are for pure fun and the best form of enjoying the music I love to listen to. not exactly for a competitive like it's fun to face of friends but man rhythm games are just the best once you just enjoy the flow of the music. whether it be nanahira soft or Camellia hardcore music. The best rhythm games are the ones that you can never get sick of playing the same song over and over again. every developer who wants to make a rhythm game Should take notes of this
@@thelol6802 it does also in std, but only to a small fraction who were gifted with the ability to read low ar. with lower cs+low hp drain+low od makes it much easier. The drawback applies to the majority who can't read low ar and are forced to memorization in order to play it.
I play rhythm games for fun and completely non-competitively. This actually makes it hard for me to enjoy many games like OSU and stepmania because most charts aren't made with fun in mind, but how hard can you make the song be or terribly made charts that get downloads because of the popular song title. Of course, I can dig through online archives to try and find good songs and good practice songs, but why do that when I can play a million other games on my wish list? I also absolutely love campaign/story mode like rhythm doc and fnf because they serve the songs with progression in mind and they are also bangers, my only problem with these games are that I finish them in 1 sitting.
Really caught me off guard to see myself in this video haha. The nice thing about rhythm games is that they all have an infinite skill cap. and you can just watch yourself get better and better as long as you keep working at it.
"and you can just watch yourself get better and better as long as you keep working at it." that's usually where i don't really get into games... but beatsaber hooked me because it's also my pretty much daily workout :D
14:48 this urks me a little. I see the note where you acknowledge that it's a PIU game instead of DDR, but I've never seen a keypad on any of the PIU machines that I've played on. Most versions of the game use a USB port where you can insert a thumb drive with your profile information loaded onto it. Changing speed in Pump It Up uses the back corner arrows to open a menu and the center button to select things like speed, note skins, and background modifiers (such as dimming the background). Pump It Up so often gets confused for DDR, but to also see it in a context where the cabinet is either old or jank as hell kinda frustrates me. Pump It Up is actually pretty accessible by making more difficult songs locked behind a button combination printed on the cabinet. It keeps brand new players from accidentally throwing themselves into the deep end never to be seen again. The code itself is an "M" shape, which is most easily performed by turning sideways (starting with the right foot on the back left corner), something that new players won't be familiar with.
i’m so glad i’m not the only one who hates random tempo changes in rhythm games. i play cytus 2 a lot and the judgement line changes colour a couple beats before the tempo changes so you don’t get caught off guard - green = slow down and red = speed up. it’s pretty cool and now i only hate random tempo changes half as much :)
Just Shapes and Beats is a great example of why community maps are must. Game is rather short, so when it first came out, people were massively asking for level editor. So now after few years after launch, the game is pretty much forgotten, since the devs never added those much asked custom level tools
9:15 Pulsen is based on StepMania, but the developer took extra caution to write an own filesystem driver for StepMania, encrypt his files and package it with Armadillo to make reverse engineering harder. I tried to help and I tried to inject a way of loading files into Pulsen (the only thing I'd need to do is to find a way to hook the filesystem) I didn't succeed. Instead the developer left a message for people managing to enter the chart creation/editing screen screen by having it modified to crash and output roughly the message:"What a boo-hoo, that sucked pretty badly, didn't it?" instead of the normal stack dump, implying this is intentional. It's his right to do that, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's the proper thing to do either. I didn't comment this on Steam as I really wanted to see the game succeed as Pulsen was finally a game that was designed to have a good OOBE and was more casual friendly.
@@taggerung_ It's a mix of things. Copyright comes to mind, as community content often leads to legal trouble. Another thing is just the mindset towards modding that many developers have. It's common among developers (especially japanese ones) to treat modding as tampering and breaking their software in a way they can't control, which they don't like. There are quite a few rhythm games with developers who actively try to stop their players from making their own content in the games they love (Muse Dash, Cytus, and DDR all come to mind)
I don’t really like rhythm games, but rhythm heaven is one of my favourite game franchises ever It also has a wide European audience, that’s saying a lot
I saw this video in my recommended a day ago, and as I was out and about I couldn't watch it but my initial reaction was that you were this big commentary RUclipsr that made some off topic rythm game video, but I was so wrong! This was a fantastic video, made by someone who deserves this attention and more
“The main focus tends to be competing against….” The chart. That’s it. 90% of the the rhythm game players I know just play them to have fun and beat levels and it has nothing to do with other people or competing against a leaderboard.
2:07 I just imagine a conversation like: -Wow what game is that? Looks interesting -Piano. -...but like -Piano. A game where you have to press keys in a particular order with particular speed and in a particular to produce music. Requires patience, coordination, sense of rhythm, memory and much more.
I actually made a similar joke to a friend while I was practicing piano once, I was like “y’know if you think about it, playing the piano is just like a really hard rhythm game where instead of having around 4 notes you have to press, you have 88”
7:49 Oh? So I just need to wait for Cytus to die so someone could create a community version of their game concept? The future is becoming ever so brightly man I cannot wait
The only reason Geometry Dash is still alive even with a new update every 5 years and The Impossible Game isn't is it's level creator. Good creators not only add a lot of new content for the game, they not only make the game look interesting and appealing to new players who would see a super highly detailed demon and decide to give the game a try, creating became a skill of it's own, adding to the overall amount of content there is for players to enjoy.
Damn, awesome video! So glad Etienne posted about this, the quality is absolutely phenomenal, and the details of the discussion about each topics are well put together, making this video highly entertaining to watch for beginners and veterans of the rhythm game community alike. I can definitely see the effort being put into the production of this video, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice that!
Super freaking cool video! Although, just wanted to point out that the SRXD footage is ANCIENT. Nowadays the scoring system requires you to be deadly precise to an impossible degree like ITG, as you mentioned, because you get better scores the closer your note hits are to a frame-perfect hit (which is rather unlikely). Then again, the game is still in early access and post 1.0 this system will likely get reworked again to allow at least some form of an achievable perfect score while still being very challenging to actually get.
most info is known but this video is no doubt being shared around i just did in a discord i'm in it'll be pushed to many of the various communites any day now hopefully
I think there is something to be said about more obtuse unlock systems and hidden song systems in some rhythm games due to how they build hype. Arcaea has a good example of this. The recent main story packs have hidden songs called anomaly songs where they are blacked out when you buy the pack, and you need to do some out of the way thing in a song to unlock them (the first one, for example, was do well enough on the first half of a fairly hard song and it starts glitching out where a break would be, booting you into the then never before seen hardest song in the game.)
I always believed I hated rhythm games because I saw shit like Beatmania and DDR at arcades and just knew I couldn't do that shit. Then I actually found some rhythm games that decided to completely shatter the mold of stereotypical rhythm games (Gitaroo Man, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Sayonara: Wild Hearts) and I adore them. They don't have to be mod driven or having insane skill ceiling potential if they are just good games with great music to keep you going.
intro music at 0:53 is mind palace by pedestrian tactics - extremely talented and underrated musician who im sure wouldnt mind some kind of credit in front of 100k viewers ??
hate to mention this but Sequence Storm has beaten Rhythm Doctor in being the first blind friendly rhythm game. The dev there is even trying to make the track editor blind accessible so those of us with low vision can enjoy creating tracks just as much as playing them. Please check out Sequence Storm if you haven't already because it's quite the unique experience.
This video is beyond amazing! Wonderfully edited, highly informative and about my favorite videogame genre. Looking forward for content even better than this!
loved your video! made me realise what's missing in osu for new players, which is an official playlist curated to help new players get into the game. it is so frustrating trying to get my friends to play osu cuz they just dont know what song to play and usually go for musics they know, such as anime songs, but they can (and will) download bad osu maps made by people that doesnt really know how to make good and friendly maps, making new players think the game is too hard or the game isnt made for them.
When you download the game it actually downloads a pack of like 5-10 songs but it's definitely not enough. If they make official packs like ADOFAI or GD it would make easier to get into the game without using the search bar too early
I completely missed this video somehow and I’m glad it showed up in my recommends again. I recently had an idea for a puzzle-rhythm hybrid and watching this video helped come up with ways on how to tackle it
3:46 I'd love to see that video! 2-Boss was one of my favorite levels of Rhythm Doctor, and the one to show me that this game means business in the best of ways.
Or tapping a screen. I have a whole folder of rhythm games (the idol variety). I have at least one (in Japanese) that introduces the Just Perfect timing window. Some also have graphs at the end of the song showing you how you did during the song, my favorite for this one is D4DJ's as it tells you how many notes in each timing window you hit. Along the lines of content, also having covers and other genres of music being available to gain also helps. I know the segment I play now is heavily criticized for being Gacha games as well as a rhythm game. This is another subject altogether. Though in regards to F2P vs p2w in this branch of games, I've seen some that do very well without using a single real dime on in-game purchases.
Yo. This, THIS video is amazing. Holy shit. This was a great video; I hope to see more like it! Thank you for the in-depth overview of rhythm games as a whole!
3:05 For me, Pump it up also can make a gimmick type chart very good because they can make the chart in flow with the song so it feels satisfying plus they have a very long lane and timing is a bit loose, so the room of error is quite big
Speaking of timing windows, as a guy who started out with Rock Band, learning about how games tend to score you based on precision was pretty dang alien to me
I learned alot in this. Thx for the Insights and tips :D Not only this covered How to make a Rhythm game good but also how to make your skill in rhythm game good. Subscribed for more content like this. This is godly
Imo Arcaea nails every single component you mentioned, except community content. They don't support fan charts and actively ban people's accounts for modding the game. But everything else in this game is just perfection.
In Pistol Whip's latest update, they completely overhauled the leaderboard system and I think more rhythm games can learn from it. Instead of punishing players with a score cut because they wanted (or have) to take a mod to make the game easier, Pistol Whip now has individual leaderboards for the specific mod combination you want to play. This is great because, say you have to take a mod for accessibility reasons or you literally don't have the physical space to accomodate for dodging walls, you no longer have to resign to the fact that you will no longer be able to score competitively. I'm actually bothering to chase scores and compete on the leaderboards now because I'm not pressured to take all the hard mode modifiers anymore in order to even think about trying to make top 500 or whatever.
13:29 You can do some of them (or all of them in some game) in arcade rhythm games too. And nowadays, lots of arcade rhythm games have good, beautiful, simplified but still visual appealing UI/UX.
Osu wasn't based on EBA, it was based on Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan!, hence why the "osu!" name, its a word the Ouendan say on the game, with the girls saying "Go!" instead.
I'm a little disappointed that you used IIDX as an example of "hard rhythm games don't need a lot of buttons". As much as people wanna say that it's super hardcore, it all comes down to learning which button to press and when to spin the turntable. After that point in time, it becomes just as simple as something like DDR.
i think the only real argument that can be made here is a higher barrier for entry. the more keys you have, the more muscle memory needs to be learned to associate a column with a key. after that it essentially becomes the same difficulty progression as you said
IIDX is really daunting for me due to that turntable. I've been playing with the turntable off and have gotten to around a 7 or maybe 8 on some songs. But it's odd because I've played SDVX for years, so moving my hands to turn the knobs is natural for me. I'm around a 17-18 on there. Pop'n is REALLY daunting for me though, with the amount of buttons... It's hard to explain.
The quality is so good. The content is well presented and supported. I can't believe that this channel has only started. Well done! I'm watching your career with great interest.
Holy hell I wasn’t expecting Cytoid to be mentioned at all in the video, that caught me off guard But in all seriousness, this two-parter is such a well made deep dive into rhythm games and all topped off with really solid pacing and editing, can’t wait to see more!
You showed gameplay of a dance of fire and ice, but I’m surprised you didn’t mention it since it is great with almost all the concepts you mention. Adofai has custom levels, only one button, and good practice levels so it’s not too hard
Thank you for this video. I've been working on a competitor for games like Unbeatable and Muse Dash for my own rhythm game and this video was able to tell me that I am on the right track to be able to create a game that both treats the genre well while being able to explore new ways to make rhythm games feel both dynamic, responsive, and (in my concept) hyper w/o having to add features that may not be welcomed.
From the quality I thought this was a huge youtube channel, now I simply know you have potential! I look forward to see your next videos, Mental Checkpoint
When i first got started with rhythm games I found the lack of progression systems in some of the more community-based rhythm games a bit frustrating. I’m talking specifically about Osu! and Clone hero. In both cases, I got both games expecting a somewhat curated experience with extra content by the community, sorta like Geometry dash since that was my first exposure to community-based content, so I was confused when both games had very little content when installed and no obvious way to get more charts/beatmaps, especially since I wasn’t aware of the culture behind the songs. I dropped Osu! Really quickly since I didn’t know that beatmap packs were a thing and I didn’t want to just download single songs. I only sticked with clone hero because i though “cant i just download the songs from the guitar hero games?” which you can, courtesy of the community. I guess what I’m trying to say is that something like getting new songs seems super obvious to experienced rhythm gamers, for completely new players that use these popular games as an entry point it can feel difficult to access.
saw "1.84" next to your name and thought you had 1.84 million subscribers judging by the quality of this video, blew me away when i realized you only had 1.84k??? may RUclips recommendations bless this man 🙏
I don't believe you should join the videos, YT recommended me the second part, which then suggests watching the first one. this is great. this is cheating my judgement and hijacking YT's recommendation flow. all good for you and the videos. keep the uploads up. let more people share and save these as the info is shockingly informative and educational for what the title promises. for a long form GDC presentations watcher like me this introduces surprising number of topics and things to research now. can't thank you enough
i thinkevery rythm game should have a practice mode. nothing is more frustrating than losing to one specific type of note combinations over and over but the only way to learn them is to play an entire song at full speed to get once the chance to do the thing you want to learn. i think of games like arcea in specific where you need to do movements hard locked to arcaea so you can't go in with experience from others or think of the weird controller guitar hero has.
As a pretty high ranking Osu player this video and the previous one really opened my eyes to why I fell in love with Osu from the beginning. At first I saw video's and wanted to be able to do what I saw, but at time went on I slowly fell in love with songs that just make me feel good. The moments of build into a ridiculous sections including stupid streams of notes just gave me a great feeling of success. These video's portray not only what the player wants out of the game but why some games simply don't hold up, and why those that do stay for a long time. Since I started Osu in 2017 there hasn't been a week that it hasn't been opened. I return almost daily and that's honestly I'm proud of. It simply keeps me connected to the music I already love.
10:17 My biggest issue with rhythm games is the lack of evaluation systems when you start playing. Lots of games can have wildly different difficulty curves or rating systems. I have played a lot of games and when the controls can vary wildly along with what they expect. And even within that there can even some analytical data on what skills your good with and what your lacking, giving charts that you would enjoy with your playstyle or help you improve with. For instance Osu maps tend to use fun layouts called jumps and streams. Streams are rapid succession of notes in some path that focuses on your ability to tap with them while jumps focus on your ability to quickly and accurately jump the board to targets. Someone who is great with streams can struggle with jumps and visversa but they are all under the same difficulty banners. For instance in GH/CH I was really struggled with any chords using 3 or more notes or had wide gaps but if a complex or fast pattern only used one or two close together threads I tend to be quite accurate. But due to my chord issues it kept me on lower difficulties but World Tour did have user tracks that I turned out to be great with even on harder tracks that kept in my flow.
5:00 makes it sounds like you can only have a single timing window across all difficulties, but this really doesn't have to be the case. I come from osu! where every map has its own timing window that conventionally scales with the difficulty, avoiding this problem entirely. This also allows mappers to utilize intentionally small or big timing windows in creative ways. The only potential downside here is that newer players might be confused why their accuracy drops as they play harder maps, but I would consider this tradeoff well worth it.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Fantastic video. A bit disappointed Etterna wasn't mentioned here since it illustrates/exemplifies a decent amount of the points you made (and much better than SM5 lol), but nonetheless, it's great to rhythm game content being pushed a step further for once in terms of production/passion.
Hope to see more.
nah fnf better😱
@@EnvyOsu 😢
@@EnvyOsu bad bait
@@recu1 shhhh
@@EnvyOsu plz stop existing
very cool overview video! rhythm games are love and life ❤️
Yoooo found you peppy :3
Found peppy 💙
It's carpal tunnel person!
i hear hitsounds while listening to songs now, thank you peppy
It’s the man. The Circle clicking man
Watched both parts, incredibly well made, edited and explained. Loved it!
fard
tempex
agreed crazy good
Hoi
I think osu really did most of this perfectly. Haveing such a low skill floor and a basically infinite skill ceiling makes the game attractive towards most people. Also the global and regional ranking system takes the competitiveness of the game slot higher
well if we're gonna get technical about it, almost everyone has used a mouse in their life, so osu!standard basically circumvents the initial difficulty of getting a player acquainted with the input mechanism of the rhythm game by using something that people already know how to do. compare that to games like DDR/stepmania, where its not intuitive which foot needs to press which panel, corresponding to the column on screen, so theres that extra bit of muscle memory that needs to be developed before you can really play the game.
The pp system may be flawed at some extent but it keeps a lot of players engaged with the game. I got into osu! because of anime songs and kept going because it's simple to understand your improvement with the pp system
@@taggerung_ but if we’re being real osu! From what I’ve seen is one of the only rhythm games that require using multiple inputs to progress
@@rukuarts3450 but you are limited of 4 inputs (2 mouse / 1 tablet + 2 keyboard), so...
@@jojobanana_539 your not wrong, if your good at one style of map its easy pp, but honestly it could be alot worse and something as universalistic as the scoring system is so hard to balance because every map is different
Holy shit this is the exact type of commentary niche I've been wanting to see so much for rhythm games, thank you for doing what you're doing.
It's obvious to say it out loud, but one big part of accessibility is having a wide range of difficulties. In Osu, a map can only be approved for rankings if it has a spread of difficulties, including a lower one. This way, a new player can collect maps they like and have a decent chance of completing them, then can upgrade to the included higher difficulties as they improve.
Yeah, as a fairly casual rhythm game player, it’s so frustrating seeing a song I like and want to play have a chart, but only for expert++ difficulty. Osu’s great in that regard.
yeah
whered you get that info from? theres no need for a mapper to make a lower difficulty for accessibility if they dont want (and its not a ranking criteria either)
@@stanleychen2584 it is in the ranking criteria. For maps shorter than 3:30, the set must have a normal difficulty
“Wide variety of difficulties” don’t you mean:
*1-baby mode
*9-crayola crushers left testicle
I am truly thankful that Etienne posted about this. Extremely detailed, and the visual aids and explanations are top notch. This appeals to veterans a newbies of rhythm games alike. Can't wait to see more. Liked, subbed, and will signal boost as much as I can. Fantastic content!
congrats on galaxy collapse
Wow you are everywhere in the rhythm game community. That’s awesome. Congrats on Galaxy Collapse btw.
same also much love you fire and dance god PogU
:0000
Oh, hello there!
i would LOVE to see a video on sight reading tournaments, honestly
also, the interesting thing about rhythm doctor's community that we've had the level editor for actual YEARS before the game released in early access. it really kept the community alive while the devs continued to work on the game
(this ended up reaching the point where we had TWO actual sight reading tournaments before the game came out. wild)
popn tournament last stage in the finals is a sight read chart
there's some of them, SDVX always doing that on final song, SEGA arcade (mai, ongeki and chunithm) is doing them too recently
I agree I wish there were more sight reading tournaments. It's not that memorization is less impressive it's just a different skill set that we don't get to see highlighted very often in rhythm games
There really needs to be more arcades in Europe. In my mind an arcade isn't an arcade until it has fighting and rhythm games
The only "arcade" I've been to has only one fighting game and no rhythm games, damn. Also half of it is _just_ racing sims
Absolutely! fighting and rhythm games are the definition of arcades for me, also two of my favorite genres ever
Arcades = paying money which this video kinda argues against given that its advocating piracy as the main way to generate content...
@@LoraLoibu dude all the arcades in my area are racing sims and the occasional gun game
@@yaysuu "racing sims"
this stuff's quality is the stuff that could be in the millions of subscribers, thank you so much for putting in the hard work to make a very informative and entertaining video to watch
17:13
"Difficulty Depth" with Rhythm Heaven Fever's "Air Rally" in the background.
You knew what you were doing.
"BA-BA-BAM-BAM!!!
-Two, three, four!"
a quick correction; (it’s not significant)
Sight reading is the ability to do very good or achieve a high combo upon the first time playing the map,
whereas the “ability to telegraph notes and see what is coming up” as you said, would simply be ‘reading’
Would it still be sight reading if you haven't played the map but already know the song well enough by heart?
yes, but with my experience, knowing the song is probably better than knowing the map
@@pryn.darkstorm You still wouldn't know the note placements even if you know the song. Yes you know the rhythm, but given the fact that even for basic songs on VSRGs you still have the option of the column to place it on, it only gives you an understand on when to perform an action. This does help, especially on very rhythmically complex songs, though knowing the arrangements on a map help more basically almost every time
9:30 slight correction: osu!'s current "main/stable" release which is basically the original poorly optimized 2007 client updated every once in a while is still closed. however, osu!lazer, a new version of the game being made from the ground up, is open source
however, there is a huge amount of community feedback and consideration. the most notable example is how the pp and difficulty systems are completely open-source and made by community members.
ranking system in osu is really bad + osu laser still isnt finished and its better to play on the older client
@@brinds7374 bad take. osu!laser runs a lot better than stable and it is finished for the most part, you can play maps there, the only thing that still isnt doable is score submission but it seems we're nearing that point. Regarding the pp system, its not perfect as you would expect, but they're always improving it. You cant make a perfect scoring system to account for player skill.
Lazer runs much worse on my own comp, but I have an integrated GPU ig. I can get up to 400fps on osu! while even 120 is lucky on lazer, with lag spikes on top. for me, switching completely to Lazer would be horrible :
@@Waterwolf221 lazer is great but mania is SO broken, and being someone that pretty much only plays mania when I do play osu! it makes me just have to use the standard client in wine.
3:32 TaroNuke is involved with a lot more than just the NotITG scene: he works at Iowiro and is a chart feedback/consultant for Arcaea.
and he also worked on the adofai dlc/its likely future updates
and he's also now a charter on the unbeatable team
and also noisz starlight
@@nohintshere taronuke the rhythm games ceo
Hi! I'm the producer of UNBEATABLE, and I figure I'd provide a fun insight on the community content aspect - if it wasn't for someone making a custom level of Proper Rhythm (a song from that game) in Rhythm Doctor all the way back in 2019, we wouldn't had been acquainted with that team and the crossover between both games wouldn't had happened :)
After finding your game on Steam through Tokaku's suggestion, I became quickly drawn towards it because of the interesting storyline and visuals. I'm just glad that you guys are still doing more and more collabs which keeps the hype and engagement up for the game.
Realy like how it's like a mix of Taiko and Mania with some differences, since it really sets it apart from the other rhythm games by being unique.
4:28 Just a note on this, Spin Rhythm XD has since fixed this, as now it awards an accuracy bonus for each note based on how far off from 0 ms the note was hit, with 150 ms giving no bonus.
how did it take the that long to come up with this (frame perfect a song for max score)
Looking cool is definitely a huge factor in rhythm games. The reason I started playing 7key rhythm games(o2jam, BMS, mania) is because even the intermediate charts looks so cool.
And not only only that, I've realized that most 4k-made rhythm games nowadays don't even require you to let go of LNs at the end within fractions of a second.
Examples are Stepmania, it has holds instead of LNs and FnF, which is literally another stepmania.
@@ky3532 FnF is not "literally" another Stepmania. It is 4-key though, if that's what you mean.
@@Cobalt985, the arrows UI of fnf looks similar to the default noteskin of Stepmania(from DDR), but *I was referring to the idea of holds, how fnf was able to use the DDR inspired idea of holds and implement it into the game just like what Stepmania kinda did.* And not LNs like O2JAM.
Unless if you take into account other features such as mines, course mods, so forth, then they are not to be compared
@@ky3532 4k rhythm games never did require a release timing. that was until osu!mania introduced it, but that's only because osu!mania was made with games like o2jam and -bms- *IIDX* in mind, which do have release timing.
@@taggerung_, thnx mate.
"No person plays rythm games for story"
CyTus II players: uuuuh....
Coming from etienne, nice vídeo, super high quality
Edit: :0 this is the first time I get +100 likes, thanks people.
Cytus progression story is much more better imo and it's kinda a one time purchase to know what's the first history of cytus
yeah lol, part of the reason why i was so hyped for progressing in Deemo and loving that game in general was actually story. Great first rhythm game in the life experience
Im gonna be honest.. I always try to skip past the story section as fast as possible. Lmao.
Deemo Player:uuuuhhhhh.......
CyTus II is kinda like you not enjoy the game and music, but also the story itself whether the player itself known it or not.
4:47 I disagree that DDR having tight timings for the highest score pushes away new players. If you're at the point where you're aiming for an AAA score on a high difficulty then you stopped being a new player a long time ago. To help new players, having lower difficulty levels and loose timings (but not too loose) is what "good" and other step grades less than perfect are for.
11:32 For the 3 who care:
Taiko no Tatsujin: Atsumete Tomodachi Daisakusen!
Taiko Master: The great plan to collect friends!
...well, close enough.
These two videos on Rhythm Games were very well made, informative, interesting and fun to watch.
I think it is a missed opportunity you did not dive into the aesthetic side of Rhythm Games, as that usually is what draws me to them.
Boring lanes usually don't satisfy me, but when I see adorable baby seals rolling rhythmically (Rhythm Heaven) or some over the top Galactic Rock Star Guy fighting off UFOs with sick riffs (Guitaroo Man) I am sold. Lots of Rhythm Games became famous not for their Gameplay, but their Style or Visual Identity, so I feel that is worth tapping into, even if not fundamentally different from other game genres. Another Point worth discussing is using rhythm elements in other game genres, as you have briefly done whith mentioning crypt of the necrodancer.
Great Job! I am excited to see what you delve into next.
Upvote for Gitaroo Man. I hope they port that game to a modern console (or PC)... My PS2 won't read the disc anymore T_T
@@Atlessa There is a PSP Version with a bit of extra content, which I suppose is easier / cheaper to track down than a new PS2 Version or Console.
I highly doubt we'll get another Port though, as sad as that is.
@@DonWippo1 Problem is I don't have a PSP, and it seems they're traded for their weight in Gold around here...
@@Atlessa That's a shame. There are always Emulators as a last resort. Though I can fully understand if you don't want to use them.
my main forte IS rhythm games and my god this is probably the best analysis video on what makes a good rhythm and what it should have to make it a good rhythm game. And it was the best choice to use Rhythm Heaven as an example for what notes they should take of what Rhythm Heaven does better than most rhythm games at all honestly. because Rhythm Heaven has a such a unique and almost flawless design that it makes perfect use to use an examples. Everything in this video is correct and these were something I also took not of also about how dead rhythm games exist because they lack any community support to help them make there game better or even help them make the game for them essentially. It blows my mind that rhythm doctor is trying to make this blind accessible. That is a pretty damn big leap for a rhythm game. The only thing I sort of disagree with is tempo changes but that's only really because I think they can be cool. I'm someone who plays rhythm games for the sake that they are for pure fun and the best form of enjoying the music I love to listen to. not exactly for a competitive like it's fun to face of friends but man rhythm games are just the best once you just enjoy the flow of the music. whether it be nanahira soft or Camellia hardcore music. The best rhythm games are the ones that you can never get sick of playing the same song over and over again. every developer who wants to make a rhythm game Should take notes of this
15:44 yeah, I don't think EZ would essentially decrease the difficulty of the song.
Lol,but its true
It does... but in mania
@@thelol6802 it does also in std, but only to a small fraction who were gifted with the ability to read low ar.
with lower cs+low hp drain+low od makes it much easier.
The drawback applies to the majority who can't read low ar and are forced to memorization in order to play it.
I play rhythm games for fun and completely non-competitively.
This actually makes it hard for me to enjoy many games like OSU and stepmania because most charts aren't made with fun in mind, but how hard can you make the song be or terribly made charts that get downloads because of the popular song title.
Of course, I can dig through online archives to try and find good songs and good practice songs, but why do that when I can play a million other games on my wish list?
I also absolutely love campaign/story mode like rhythm doc and fnf because they serve the songs with progression in mind and they are also bangers, my only problem with these games are that I finish them in 1 sitting.
you’re probably one of the most underrated youtubers rn when it comes to video editing and design. it’s actually insane.
This channel barely has 6 videos, but he still managed to get 2k sub. That's a good proggress I guess.
Really caught me off guard to see myself in this video haha.
The nice thing about rhythm games is that they all have an infinite skill cap. and you can just watch yourself get better and better as long as you keep working at it.
"and you can just watch yourself get better and better as long as you keep working at it."
that's usually where i don't really get into games... but beatsaber hooked me because it's also my pretty much daily workout :D
this is a disgustingly high quality video.
seriously, props to you.
14:48 this urks me a little. I see the note where you acknowledge that it's a PIU game instead of DDR, but I've never seen a keypad on any of the PIU machines that I've played on. Most versions of the game use a USB port where you can insert a thumb drive with your profile information loaded onto it. Changing speed in Pump It Up uses the back corner arrows to open a menu and the center button to select things like speed, note skins, and background modifiers (such as dimming the background).
Pump It Up so often gets confused for DDR, but to also see it in a context where the cabinet is either old or jank as hell kinda frustrates me. Pump It Up is actually pretty accessible by making more difficult songs locked behind a button combination printed on the cabinet. It keeps brand new players from accidentally throwing themselves into the deep end never to be seen again. The code itself is an "M" shape, which is most easily performed by turning sideways (starting with the right foot on the back left corner), something that new players won't be familiar with.
i’m so glad i’m not the only one who hates random tempo changes in rhythm games. i play cytus 2 a lot and the judgement line changes colour a couple beats before the tempo changes so you don’t get caught off guard - green = slow down and red = speed up. it’s pretty cool and now i only hate random tempo changes half as much :)
Just Shapes and Beats is a great example of why community maps are must. Game is rather short, so when it first came out, people were massively asking for level editor. So now after few years after launch, the game is pretty much forgotten, since the devs never added those much asked custom level tools
and it's also why project arrhythmia still has a community
9:15 Pulsen is based on StepMania, but the developer took extra caution to write an own filesystem driver for StepMania, encrypt his files and package it with Armadillo to make reverse engineering harder.
I tried to help and I tried to inject a way of loading files into Pulsen (the only thing I'd need to do is to find a way to hook the filesystem)
I didn't succeed. Instead the developer left a message for people managing to enter the chart creation/editing screen screen by having it modified to crash and output roughly the message:"What a boo-hoo, that sucked pretty badly, didn't it?" instead of the normal stack dump, implying this is intentional.
It's his right to do that, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's the proper thing to do either.
I didn't comment this on Steam as I really wanted to see the game succeed as Pulsen was finally a game that was designed to have a good OOBE and was more casual friendly.
interesting. i wonder why a developer would try and make it so hard to mod their own game, especially a non-competitive rhythm game?
@@taggerung_ It's a mix of things. Copyright comes to mind, as community content often leads to legal trouble. Another thing is just the mindset towards modding that many developers have. It's common among developers (especially japanese ones) to treat modding as tampering and breaking their software in a way they can't control, which they don't like. There are quite a few rhythm games with developers who actively try to stop their players from making their own content in the games they love (Muse Dash, Cytus, and DDR all come to mind)
For thosr who are wondering, The intro song is Mind Palace by Pedestrian Tactics
Communit content song name?
amazing video, you even went through the effort of making a logo for each section
I don’t really like rhythm games, but rhythm heaven is one of my favourite game franchises ever
It also has a wide European audience, that’s saying a lot
I saw this video in my recommended a day ago, and as I was out and about I couldn't watch it but my initial reaction was that you were this big commentary RUclipsr that made some off topic rythm game video, but I was so wrong! This was a fantastic video, made by someone who deserves this attention and more
2:55
using Soflan-chan to give an example of soflan
got a new sub
“The main focus tends to be competing against….” The chart. That’s it. 90% of the the rhythm game players I know just play them to have fun and beat levels and it has nothing to do with other people or competing against a leaderboard.
I agree. The only person I compete against is myself.
The leaderboard is just the side-outcome for gitgud-ing at the chart
2:07 I just imagine a conversation like:
-Wow what game is that? Looks interesting
-Piano.
-...but like
-Piano. A game where you have to press keys in a particular order with particular speed and in a particular to produce music. Requires patience, coordination, sense of rhythm, memory and much more.
I actually made a similar joke to a friend while I was practicing piano once, I was like “y’know if you think about it, playing the piano is just like a really hard rhythm game where instead of having around 4 notes you have to press, you have 88”
@@Sopran0livia cool now fc a song on piano NOW!
7:49 Oh? So I just need to wait for Cytus to die so someone could create a community version of their game concept? The future is becoming ever so brightly man I cannot wait
Sarcasm? Because there already exists a community driven version of Cytus.
your channel is amazing and the videos are amazing quality! good luck on other videos!
The only reason Geometry Dash is still alive even with a new update every 5 years and The Impossible Game isn't is it's level creator. Good creators not only add a lot of new content for the game, they not only make the game look interesting and appealing to new players who would see a super highly detailed demon and decide to give the game a try, creating became a skill of it's own, adding to the overall amount of content there is for players to enjoy.
also geometry dash's level editor is f*cking insane
Damn, awesome video!
So glad Etienne posted about this, the quality is absolutely phenomenal, and the details of the discussion about each topics are well put together, making this video highly entertaining to watch for beginners and veterans of the rhythm game community alike. I can definitely see the effort being put into the production of this video, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice that!
I'm happy I came across to your video as a game developer planning a new beat/rhythm game.
I took some lessons from it. Thank you
so glad taronuke and uksrt got their names in your videos
Super freaking cool video!
Although, just wanted to point out that the SRXD footage is ANCIENT. Nowadays the scoring system requires you to be deadly precise to an impossible degree like ITG, as you mentioned, because you get better scores the closer your note hits are to a frame-perfect hit (which is rather unlikely). Then again, the game is still in early access and post 1.0 this system will likely get reworked again to allow at least some form of an achievable perfect score while still being very challenging to actually get.
holy shit, this is actually really sick, how hasnt it got so much more views?
most info is known but this video is no doubt being shared around i just did in a discord i'm in it'll be pushed to many of the various communites any day now hopefully
The only reason I'm here is because of an ad.
Most long videos(longer than 10mins) don't usually get that many recommendations.
Aged well ig
I like the logos for each point/section in the video, they look stylish!
I think there is something to be said about more obtuse unlock systems and hidden song systems in some rhythm games due to how they build hype. Arcaea has a good example of this. The recent main story packs have hidden songs called anomaly songs where they are blacked out when you buy the pack, and you need to do some out of the way thing in a song to unlock them (the first one, for example, was do well enough on the first half of a fairly hard song and it starts glitching out where a break would be, booting you into the then never before seen hardest song in the game.)
This is the video I’ve wanted to make for SO LONGGGGG
Thank you for detailing everything exactly how I see it in such an elegant way ^^
Insanely high quality video. Nice job!
I always believed I hated rhythm games because I saw shit like Beatmania and DDR at arcades and just knew I couldn't do that shit. Then I actually found some rhythm games that decided to completely shatter the mold of stereotypical rhythm games (Gitaroo Man, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Sayonara: Wild Hearts) and I adore them. They don't have to be mod driven or having insane skill ceiling potential if they are just good games with great music to keep you going.
The first point reminds me of Geometry Dash a LOT. The skill ceiling in this game has been consistently pushed back by a ton for the past few years.
super awesome video. really hyped to see you grow and make more content.
intro music at 0:53 is mind palace by pedestrian tactics - extremely talented and underrated musician who im sure wouldnt mind some kind of credit in front of 100k viewers ??
thank you!
In case you missed it the Just Dance community is still porting the latest versions back to the wii since the last official game in 2014
15:40 My guy actually clicked easy mod and acted like it makes the game easier. What a legend.
hate to mention this but Sequence Storm has beaten Rhythm Doctor in being the first blind friendly rhythm game. The dev there is even trying to make the track editor blind accessible so those of us with low vision can enjoy creating tracks just as much as playing them. Please check out Sequence Storm if you haven't already because it's quite the unique experience.
This video is beyond amazing! Wonderfully edited, highly informative and about my favorite videogame genre. Looking forward for content even better than this!
This is super detailed, well researched and well made. Surprised to realise that you’re not a bigger channel. Keep up the amazing work!
How do you only have 600subs? your videos are always well edited
@@MentalCheckpoint
you got a wave of popularity now
maybe
so many HD (hidden) gems just gotta find them!
3:29 TORILLE!
loved your video! made me realise what's missing in osu for new players, which is an official playlist curated to help new players get into the game.
it is so frustrating trying to get my friends to play osu cuz they just dont know what song to play and usually go for musics they know, such as anime songs, but they can (and will) download bad osu maps made by people that doesnt really know how to make good and friendly maps, making new players think the game is too hard or the game isnt made for them.
If you could link some good maps or tell me the names of some good mappers I'd appreciate it.
When you download the game it actually downloads a pack of like 5-10 songs but it's definitely not enough. If they make official packs like ADOFAI or GD it would make easier to get into the game without using the search bar too early
I completely missed this video somehow and I’m glad it showed up in my recommends again. I recently had an idea for a puzzle-rhythm hybrid and watching this video helped come up with ways on how to tackle it
Yes. Make sure Rhythm Games
Always.
Have.
Banger Soundtrack.
but DMCA..... and licenses of songs
@@M4TTYN Doesn't stop some modders from composing it themselves I guess.
@@M4TTYN fuck dmca, copyright etc, i hope game devs stop bending to producers someday and let actual musicians voices be heard
3:46 I'd love to see that video! 2-Boss was one of my favorite levels of Rhythm Doctor, and the one to show me that this game means business in the best of ways.
Or tapping a screen. I have a whole folder of rhythm games (the idol variety). I have at least one (in Japanese) that introduces the Just Perfect timing window. Some also have graphs at the end of the song showing you how you did during the song, my favorite for this one is D4DJ's as it tells you how many notes in each timing window you hit.
Along the lines of content, also having covers and other genres of music being available to gain also helps.
I know the segment I play now is heavily criticized for being Gacha games as well as a rhythm game. This is another subject altogether. Though in regards to F2P vs p2w in this branch of games, I've seen some that do very well without using a single real dime on in-game purchases.
Yo. This, THIS video is amazing. Holy shit. This was a great video; I hope to see more like it! Thank you for the in-depth overview of rhythm games as a whole!
how is this high quality of a video only on a channel with 5k subs, keep up the work man, this was great!
3:05 For me, Pump it up also can make a gimmick type chart very good because they can make the chart in flow with the song so it feels satisfying plus they have a very long lane and timing is a bit loose, so the room of error is quite big
I do love Groove Coaster for having bonus notes, hidden in the tracks. Makes you look for gaps in the song to get ad-libs.
i hate that feature haha
Speaking of timing windows, as a guy who started out with Rock Band, learning about how games tend to score you based on precision was pretty dang alien to me
I learned alot in this.
Thx for the Insights and tips :D
Not only this covered How to make a Rhythm game good but also how to make your skill in rhythm game good.
Subscribed for more content like this.
This is godly
Imo Arcaea nails every single component you mentioned, except community content. They don't support fan charts and actively ban people's accounts for modding the game. But everything else in this game is just perfection.
In Pistol Whip's latest update, they completely overhauled the leaderboard system and I think more rhythm games can learn from it.
Instead of punishing players with a score cut because they wanted (or have) to take a mod to make the game easier, Pistol Whip now has individual leaderboards for the specific mod combination you want to play. This is great because, say you have to take a mod for accessibility reasons or you literally don't have the physical space to accomodate for dodging walls, you no longer have to resign to the fact that you will no longer be able to score competitively.
I'm actually bothering to chase scores and compete on the leaderboards now because I'm not pressured to take all the hard mode modifiers anymore in order to even think about trying to make top 500 or whatever.
This video is really great and entertaining, hope this channel grows a lot
Props for using soflan chan when talking bout soflan I still have nightmares about that song
Thanks camilla
13:29 You can do some of them (or all of them in some game) in arcade rhythm games too.
And nowadays, lots of arcade rhythm games have good, beautiful, simplified but still visual appealing UI/UX.
Osu wasn't based on EBA, it was based on Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan!, hence why the "osu!" name, its a word the Ouendan say on the game, with the girls saying "Go!" instead.
WOW, AMAZING VIDEO. Finally, polished rhythm game content that actually says something meaningful. Keep it up man
I'm a little disappointed that you used IIDX as an example of "hard rhythm games don't need a lot of buttons". As much as people wanna say that it's super hardcore, it all comes down to learning which button to press and when to spin the turntable. After that point in time, it becomes just as simple as something like DDR.
i think the only real argument that can be made here is a higher barrier for entry. the more keys you have, the more muscle memory needs to be learned to associate a column with a key. after that it essentially becomes the same difficulty progression as you said
IIDX is really daunting for me due to that turntable. I've been playing with the turntable off and have gotten to around a 7 or maybe 8 on some songs. But it's odd because I've played SDVX for years, so moving my hands to turn the knobs is natural for me. I'm around a 17-18 on there. Pop'n is REALLY daunting for me though, with the amount of buttons... It's hard to explain.
@@pixelsilzavon77 yeah 9k is probably a nightmare
@@pixelsilzavon77 the turntable is literally the best part of playing IIDX/BMS over any other 7+ key game lmao
The quality is so good. The content is well presented and supported. I can't believe that this channel has only started. Well done! I'm watching your career with great interest.
Holy hell I wasn’t expecting Cytoid to be mentioned at all in the video, that caught me off guard
But in all seriousness, this two-parter is such a well made deep dive into rhythm games and all topped off with really solid pacing and editing, can’t wait to see more!
hard agree, the rg community is very grateful! (if you're reading this go play cytoid pls)
You showed gameplay of a dance of fire and ice, but I’m surprised you didn’t mention it since it is great with almost all the concepts you mention. Adofai has custom levels, only one button, and good practice levels so it’s not too hard
the reason why imho is its a genre that is the definition of "if it aint broke dont fix it"
Thank you for this video. I've been working on a competitor for games like Unbeatable and Muse Dash for my own rhythm game and this video was able to tell me that I am on the right track to be able to create a game that both treats the genre well while being able to explore new ways to make rhythm games feel both dynamic, responsive, and (in my concept) hyper w/o having to add features that may not be welcomed.
From the quality I thought this was a huge youtube channel, now I simply know you have potential!
I look forward to see your next videos, Mental Checkpoint
Really enjoyed the video, glad to see this type of well made content about rythm games. Keep up the good work!
When i first got started with rhythm games I found the lack of progression systems in some of the more community-based rhythm games a bit frustrating. I’m talking specifically about Osu! and Clone hero. In both cases, I got both games expecting a somewhat curated experience with extra content by the community, sorta like Geometry dash since that was my first exposure to community-based content, so I was confused when both games had very little content when installed and no obvious way to get more charts/beatmaps, especially since I wasn’t aware of the culture behind the songs. I dropped Osu! Really quickly since I didn’t know that beatmap packs were a thing and I didn’t want to just download single songs. I only sticked with clone hero because i though “cant i just download the songs from the guitar hero games?” which you can, courtesy of the community.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that something like getting new songs seems super obvious to experienced rhythm gamers, for completely new players that use these popular games as an entry point it can feel difficult to access.
i agree
especially hard to find the type of map you want when youre new
I hate the idea of progression system in rhythm games, it makes them look more mobile game.(unless if they are already mobile games)
saw "1.84" next to your name and thought you had 1.84 million subscribers judging by the quality of this video, blew me away when i realized you only had 1.84k??? may RUclips recommendations bless this man 🙏
I don't believe you should join the videos, YT recommended me the second part, which then suggests watching the first one. this is great. this is cheating my judgement and hijacking YT's recommendation flow. all good for you and the videos. keep the uploads up. let more people share and save these as the info is shockingly informative and educational for what the title promises. for a long form GDC presentations watcher like me this introduces surprising number of topics and things to research now. can't thank you enough
This was soo good! Im glad to have been here before the channel blew up 😎
i think people within the stepmania modding community would be glad to aid with info if you ever want to make a video on it
i thinkevery rythm game should have a practice mode. nothing is more frustrating than losing to one specific type of note combinations over and over but the only way to learn them is to play an entire song at full speed to get once the chance to do the thing you want to learn. i think of games like arcea in specific where you need to do movements hard locked to arcaea so you can't go in with experience from others or think of the weird controller guitar hero has.
Really great content here, keep it up man!
the editing is beyond insane in this
As a pretty high ranking Osu player this video and the previous one really opened my eyes to why I fell in love with Osu from the beginning. At first I saw video's and wanted to be able to do what I saw, but at time went on I slowly fell in love with songs that just make me feel good. The moments of build into a ridiculous sections including stupid streams of notes just gave me a great feeling of success. These video's portray not only what the player wants out of the game but why some games simply don't hold up, and why those that do stay for a long time. Since I started Osu in 2017 there hasn't been a week that it hasn't been opened. I return almost daily and that's honestly I'm proud of. It simply keeps me connected to the music I already love.
10:17 My biggest issue with rhythm games is the lack of evaluation systems when you start playing. Lots of games can have wildly different difficulty curves or rating systems. I have played a lot of games and when the controls can vary wildly along with what they expect. And even within that there can even some analytical data on what skills your good with and what your lacking, giving charts that you would enjoy with your playstyle or help you improve with.
For instance Osu maps tend to use fun layouts called jumps and streams. Streams are rapid succession of notes in some path that focuses on your ability to tap with them while jumps focus on your ability to quickly and accurately jump the board to targets. Someone who is great with streams can struggle with jumps and visversa but they are all under the same difficulty banners. For instance in GH/CH I was really struggled with any chords using 3 or more notes or had wide gaps but if a complex or fast pattern only used one or two close together threads I tend to be quite accurate. But due to my chord issues it kept me on lower difficulties but World Tour did have user tracks that I turned out to be great with even on harder tracks that kept in my flow.
There is so much quality packed into this one video
5:00 makes it sounds like you can only have a single timing window across all difficulties, but this really doesn't have to be the case. I come from osu! where every map has its own timing window that conventionally scales with the difficulty, avoiding this problem entirely. This also allows mappers to utilize intentionally small or big timing windows in creative ways.
The only potential downside here is that newer players might be confused why their accuracy drops as they play harder maps, but I would consider this tradeoff well worth it.
love seeing some real rhythm game content, this is EXACTLY the kind of stuff we've needed