I want to point out any shifting issues may just be me not being a bike mechanic. I am a good general mechanic. I however have no idea if I have it set up properly. I did follow the directions but…
Very interesting... and the first I've heard of these components. After playing with an online gear calculator, I'm pretty sure I could finally go to a 1x on my road bike with a 13 speed cassette and not miss the 2x.
Awesome! I honestly feel that's the ultimate end goal with gearing. I would love to axe the front derailleur while also not compromising too much on the steps between gears. What do you think about the new Classified system? I hope we see more systems like this in the future, but with less of a proprietary nature and a lower price point. Basically, I want my cake and to eat it as well! lol
Agreed, although chainline being more comprised at the extremes and utilising small 9 or 10 tooth cogs in the cassette will count against it for faster riders.
That's awesome. I'm looking forward to hear how it goes for you. I have been really enjoying the 46/30 front. Makes for some insanely low ratios, which is nice for the hills around me. This groupset really has opened up a lot of possibilities for upgrades on older frames.
How did you fit the 13 speed cassette to a normal HG freehub? In theory the rotor 13 speed cassette requires to use the rotor hub that as a slightly longer freehub
Yeah, it's crazy, but the Rotor cassette fits right on the HG driver without any modification. It may be a different story for another frame set, but according to Rotors website, it fits on a standard HG hub and is compatible with 12 speed chains.
This is the initial set up procedure. After pairing you start on page 16 and learn the parts. Like the J adjustment😉. FD install is on pg 37 and 43. It’s simple. RD install and initial alignment is on pg 45. Inter the app and assign the cassette you are using. Now enter initial calibration. Remember that J screw adjustment? How many started there first? Set your J screw per instructions and fine tune in the app. Now exit initial calibration and set the limit screw D minimum. Now shift into the largest cog. Now you adjust the B screw for 8mm clearance from the largest cog. Now set limit screw E maximum. (You may need to enter the app and fine tune this gear now) Now you fine tune the rest of the cassette in the app. It’s not that hard but knowing this process is key.
I find it kind of funny that, so many are compiling about the "bad" instructions being hard to follow. The fact is they aren't "bad" it's just that if you speak a major European language you've been spoiled by manuals that don't have to share with other languages. As my best friend in the world (who happens to be Japanese) would say, "Tough s**t round eye" 🤣
@@Bikey_McBeardfaceno people are not reading the directions and treating this like a mechanical unit and installing it. Then when things don’t work they are complaining that the instructions are bad, because they did not use them. That’s what I did 😂
@@hill160881 It was the same with early SRAM Hyro-R brakes, so many people thought SRAM brakes were crap compared to Shimano for so long, and blamed the use of DOT fluid. None of them read the manual that shows you had to strap the leaver down to lock it off from the rest of the system, and they got working spongy brakes with about 70% power.
Yeah it IS fairly straight forward. The limit screws seem pointless though. If you set the *G* screw for the small cog then the rest should be done with presets for the number of cogs, the make of cassette, and the freehub type maybe. Same on the front derailleur... simple presets for chainline and spacing (if that's actually ever an issue?) And yeah, have an advanced mode where you can go outside the recommended options if needs be? Seems to me they just made it a bit over complicated for no reason. Brilliant bit of kit though. Hopefully it'll be properly supported with sensible software updates over the next few months because the hardware deserves it.
There's already a 2x14 road bike using the same groupset sold by SERAPH It's called the TT-X43. Info is a little scant, but it supposedly uses a shortened XDR driver, and a special 14 speed chain. The cassette isn't a crazy dinner plate, either, it's 10-36, Which although interesting kind of makes it pointless in my opinion almost everyone I know (myself included) on 12's uses it like 11s plus a "bailout gear" anyway. It's also crazy cheap £900/$1200 full carbon plus shipping from China so it either doesn't work very well or they are just testing the waters, if no one bites they won't bother producing any spares.
@@Bikey_McBeardface yeah, my brother and I have found a couple 14s bike out there, but so far, I can’t find anything about them being spotted in the wild. Only at bike shows. We currently have a 2x14s on order from a company called Tantan out of China and plan to do a review and test ride video in the near future (shipping time dependent).
Dude! Please tell me where you acquired the titanium fork. I've been looking for one since I had my titanium frame made for me in 2021. I have Dura-Ace Di2 11 speed currently but when that group needs replaced I am going with the Wheeltop group.
The fork is made by the company Comeplay out of China. It only supports up to a 32c, maaaaybe a 35c tire (currently waiting on a pair of 35 contis to arrive to test this). This fork took significant modifications due to quality control issues, but it was totally worth it. A link to the product can be found in the about section of this video. WARNING: the fork requires a constant diameter headset, or modified 1 1/2 taper crown race. Not 1 1/2 taper. It does not come with axel or axel insert so make sure to request these items when you make the order. Hope that helps!
Would you have a link? I did several searches before I built the bike and could not find anything. Edit ok I found them. Very interesting. Ya, so apparently in July they started offering the eds system with 14s option on the x43. I don’t know if they have delivered any as yet. I would bet you could ask for this option on the other bikes they offer though. I cant find a video of it in operation on the road but I bet it won’t be long. Also I cant find the cassette/chain or what hub they are using. I will keep looking. Thanks for the info but until the parts are available and it’s a delivered product it’s not really a thing.
How many people actually use all of the cogs on their 11+ speed cassettes? I’m still riding an 11 speed with an 11-25 array of cogs, and I almost never use the 25. What’s the point of going to 12 or 13 cogs if those cogs are over 25 teeth?
You are not wrong. Most of my shifting is double tapping skipping a gear. I don’t mind the extra shifting because it’s a button. As to the gearing. We have really bad grades. Up to 14% I use the 36t cog just getting out of my neighborhood on the 10% grade getting to the main road. Just going on a basic 10 mile ride here and you climb 1000 feet. That’s an easy day. When I lived in Tulsa I would not need anything but a 10/28. The thing is if you don’t need it you won’t see a point. I love innovation and this is great.
agree with @hill160881. There are many people who will find this stupid, but around where we live, elevation gain during a ride is a guarantee. This is purly a fun project to try out things that maybe haven't been done before. It's also fun to speculate on where the industry will be going in the future.
Tell me you live in flat land without telling me you live in flat land. I've got hills where the low 34x32 gear still puts me over 300W just to get up it.
I do understand the concept of it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Going to 13 cogs in the rear does not solve any problem for the average rider. I however do use them all where I live with the hills and mountains. We had 2 speed autos in the 50s then 3 speed then 4 now 10. I can’t see a benefit to going back to a 2, 3, 4 speed when the 10s trans just skips gears when needed. That what I do on this bike. Skip when I can and enjoy the options.
for most, I agree, but it's fun to put together projects like this that may have only been done by a few people around the world. Its more to speculate on the future moves of the bicycle industry and experiment with the possibilities that are currently out there and available to us.
I want to point out any shifting issues may just be me not being a bike mechanic. I am a good general mechanic. I however have no idea if I have it set up properly. I did follow the directions but…
My bike still at 7 speed,,, I will upgrade once 15+ speed is available.
haha I know right. Cool thing is that the Wheeltop derailleurs will work with a 7 speed. so could always go that route in the mean time.
so wtf you are doing here with your beater
Very interesting... and the first I've heard of these components. After playing with an online gear calculator, I'm pretty sure I could finally go to a 1x on my road bike with a 13 speed cassette and not miss the 2x.
Awesome! I honestly feel that's the ultimate end goal with gearing. I would love to axe the front derailleur while also not compromising too much on the steps between gears.
What do you think about the new Classified system? I hope we see more systems like this in the future, but with less of a proprietary nature and a lower price point. Basically, I want my cake and to eat it as well! lol
Agreed, although chainline being more comprised at the extremes and utilising small 9 or 10 tooth cogs in the cassette will count against it for faster riders.
great build, I'm going to do a 2x12 wwith Ultegra cassette and the same crankset soon
That's awesome. I'm looking forward to hear how it goes for you. I have been really enjoying the 46/30 front. Makes for some insanely low ratios, which is nice for the hills around me.
This groupset really has opened up a lot of possibilities for upgrades on older frames.
This thing is super cool.
How did you fit the 13 speed cassette to a normal HG freehub? In theory the rotor 13 speed cassette requires to use the rotor hub that as a slightly longer freehub
Yeah, it's crazy, but the Rotor cassette fits right on the HG driver without any modification. It may be a different story for another frame set, but according to Rotors website, it fits on a standard HG hub and is compatible with 12 speed chains.
I did use a 2.5 mm shim between the frame and wheel hub on the drive side to get chain clearance from the frame.
This is the initial set up procedure. After pairing you start on page 16 and learn the parts. Like the J adjustment😉. FD install is on pg 37 and 43. It’s simple. RD install and initial alignment is on pg 45. Inter the app and assign the cassette you are using. Now enter initial calibration. Remember that J screw adjustment? How many started there first? Set your J screw per instructions and fine tune in the app. Now exit initial calibration and set the limit screw D minimum. Now shift into the largest cog. Now you adjust the B screw for 8mm clearance from the largest cog. Now set limit screw E maximum. (You may need to enter the app and fine tune this gear now) Now you fine tune the rest of the cassette in the app. It’s not that hard but knowing this process is key.
I find it kind of funny that, so many are compiling about the "bad" instructions being hard to follow. The fact is they aren't "bad" it's just that if you speak a major European language you've been spoiled by manuals that don't have to share with other languages. As my best friend in the world (who happens to be Japanese) would say, "Tough s**t round eye" 🤣
@@Bikey_McBeardfaceno people are not reading the directions and treating this like a mechanical unit and installing it. Then when things don’t work they are complaining that the instructions are bad, because they did not use them. That’s what I did 😂
@@hill160881 It was the same with early SRAM Hyro-R brakes, so many people thought SRAM brakes were crap compared to Shimano for so long, and blamed the use of DOT fluid. None of them read the manual that shows you had to strap the leaver down to lock it off from the rest of the system, and they got working spongy brakes with about 70% power.
Yeah it IS fairly straight forward. The limit screws seem pointless though. If you set the *G* screw for the small cog then the rest should be done with presets for the number of cogs, the make of cassette, and the freehub type maybe. Same on the front derailleur... simple presets for chainline and spacing (if that's actually ever an issue?) And yeah, have an advanced mode where you can go outside the recommended options if needs be? Seems to me they just made it a bit over complicated for no reason. Brilliant bit of kit though. Hopefully it'll be properly supported with sensible software updates over the next few months because the hardware deserves it.
@@Bikey_McBeardfaceGreat point... though who the heck really knows what a 'joystick' will be in 10 or 20 years time!!
Ooh, soon we will be up to 27 gears…just like we were 20 years ago with 3x9s 😂
we have almost reached peak 2000s tech! 😂
There's already a 2x14 road bike using the same groupset sold by SERAPH It's called the TT-X43. Info is a little scant, but it supposedly uses a shortened XDR driver, and a special 14 speed chain. The cassette isn't a crazy dinner plate, either, it's 10-36, Which although interesting kind of makes it pointless in my opinion almost everyone I know (myself included) on 12's uses it like 11s plus a "bailout gear" anyway. It's also crazy cheap £900/$1200 full carbon plus shipping from China so it either doesn't work very well or they are just testing the waters, if no one bites they won't bother producing any spares.
@@Bikey_McBeardface yeah, my brother and I have found a couple 14s bike out there, but so far, I can’t find anything about them being spotted in the wild. Only at bike shows. We currently have a 2x14s on order from a company called Tantan out of China and plan to do a review and test ride video in the near future (shipping time dependent).
@@THEEPookiebutt That's the one, I did wonder what the "TT" was as all about, it being a road bike and all.
Yeah I find this cool. Bee on the fence between that group and ltwoo. The rotor cassette what free hub and chain did you use?
Shimano hg hub and 12 speed chain.
what @hill160881 said!
is there a 13 speed chain?
@@rdsim8589 it works with a standard 12 speed chain
Dude! Please tell me where you acquired the titanium fork. I've been looking for one since I had my titanium frame made for me in 2021. I have Dura-Ace Di2 11 speed currently but when that group needs replaced I am going with the Wheeltop group.
The fork is made by the company Comeplay out of China. It only supports up to a 32c, maaaaybe a 35c tire (currently waiting on a pair of 35 contis to arrive to test this). This fork took significant modifications due to quality control issues, but it was totally worth it. A link to the product can be found in the about section of this video. WARNING: the fork requires a constant diameter headset, or modified 1 1/2 taper crown race. Not 1 1/2 taper. It does not come with axel or axel insert so make sure to request these items when you make the order. Hope that helps!
I can confirm it fits 35c tires.
Review of fork.
ruclips.net/video/lGe0WidzV9I/видео.htmlsi=2ArsE0wpFOVo-xpS
Thanks for sharing but it's not the first, TanTan has been selling a 2x13 and 2x14 bikes for some time now on aliexpress.
Would you have a link? I did several searches before I built the bike and could not find anything.
Edit ok I found them. Very interesting. Ya, so apparently in July they started offering the eds system with 14s option on the x43. I don’t know if they have delivered any as yet. I would bet you could ask for this option on the other bikes they offer though. I cant find a video of it in operation on the road but I bet it won’t be long. Also I cant find the cassette/chain or what hub they are using. I will keep looking. Thanks for the info but until the parts are available and it’s a delivered product it’s not really a thing.
How many people actually use all of the cogs on their 11+ speed cassettes? I’m still riding an 11 speed with an 11-25 array of cogs, and I almost never use the 25. What’s the point of going to 12 or 13 cogs if those cogs are over 25 teeth?
You are not wrong. Most of my shifting is double tapping skipping a gear. I don’t mind the extra shifting because it’s a button. As to the gearing. We have really bad grades. Up to 14% I use the 36t cog just getting out of my neighborhood on the 10% grade getting to the main road. Just going on a basic 10 mile ride here and you climb 1000 feet. That’s an easy day. When I lived in Tulsa I would not need anything but a 10/28. The thing is if you don’t need it you won’t see a point. I love innovation and this is great.
agree with @hill160881. There are many people who will find this stupid, but around where we live, elevation gain during a ride is a guarantee. This is purly a fun project to try out things that maybe haven't been done before. It's also fun to speculate on where the industry will be going in the future.
Tell me you live in flat land without telling me you live in flat land.
I've got hills where the low 34x32 gear still puts me over 300W just to get up it.
I use all my gears on my 12-34 12s 🤷🏻. One more would be nice and I could add a 36 and maybe a bigger chainset for more efficiency
you don't need any gears at all then. you think we are all joking with 51 cassettes ?
2x10 is more than sufficient
I do understand the concept of it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Going to 13 cogs in the rear does not solve any problem for the average rider. I however do use them all where I live with the hills and mountains. We had 2 speed autos in the 50s then 3 speed then 4 now 10. I can’t see a benefit to going back to a 2, 3, 4 speed when the 10s trans just skips gears when needed. That what I do on this bike. Skip when I can and enjoy the options.
for most, I agree, but it's fun to put together projects like this that may have only been done by a few people around the world. Its more to speculate on the future moves of the bicycle industry and experiment with the possibilities that are currently out there and available to us.