Hello Andy - I am getting a 404 up from the grave. My 404 motor will not come out. I have tried pulling the motor itself, I have tried (with reluctant) hitting the top of the motor with wood and a hammer. Still the motor will not come out. Any suggestions is wanted. Thank you.
It must be stuck very hard. Here is what I would try. One or the other, or maybe both if required. Carefully get penetrating oil (like WD40) into the "tube" area of the machine where the motor is stuck to the sides of the tube. You can apply from the top or bottom area, or both. What you do not want is for oil to get INTO the motor or carbons. That has never happen to me, but it can't be a good thing for oil inside the electric motor. If you don't have penetrating oil, then alcohol or sewing machine oil. Something to soften the dried up varnished gunk inside the tube. The other thing I would try, and maybe try this first, is to use a hair dryer and blow hot air from the top and bottom of the motor area. The heat wont hurt the motor, and it may soften and/or "melt" the old oil inside. If there is rust inside the tube (I've never seen that) heating the metal can expand and contract it and "break free" the motor from the tube it slides into. When it is heated, tap on the top motor shaft a little bit. I have used heat many times to loosen stuck parts and screws, just never had to do it on a motor. I hope this will help Kevin. I am dying to know how it turns out. Good Luck.
Hello Andy - your item worked as per heat. The motor drop in a few seconds. I have been working on this item for about one week - never thought on heat. Thank you. I am a subscriber.
I have cleaned up a dirty 404 and oiled the machine, greased the gears and serviced the button footcontroller. There is a growling noise coming from the motor. I saw your video on opening up the 301 PA motor, but I have not opened one yet. Is the 404 PA motor the same as a 301 PA motor so that I could follow your 301 motor opening/cleaning video instructions on the 404 motor? Any suggestions on what the growl noise might be? Your videos are awesome. Thanks for publishing them. Hope that you will be able to do a video on opening a Singer Featherweight motor.
You can use the 404 motor video, yes. The original 301 (first production run) the motor had a silver "lubrication" tube like they took a featherweight motor and put it in a PA style housing. I have never opened one up, so not sure what it is like inside. Starting with the second run, they added the "A" to 301 and changed to a sealed motor like what is in the 401,403, 500, 503. etc. so it's virtually the same motor. The growling can be a couple of things. If the textolite gear on the handwheel is dry, without grease, it will make a louder whine sound. The whine is common with the style of gear and needs to be greased. Look at this video around 20:10 and I show greasing the handwheel gear: ruclips.net/video/raYAkJ0-jic/видео.html Another possibility is the sealed bearing at the top of the PA motor aluminum tube that the shaft comes thru. If that bearing dried out it can be very noisy. To test this I had to take the motor out of the machine, lay it on the bench but hook it back up to the electrical wires from the back of the receptacle. That way I was just testing the motor without any contact to the handwheel. It was still noisy, so I knew it was not a dry gear. I tried to carefully oil the bearing, but the oil just ran down the shaft inside the tube. I bought a new bearing from sew-classic, but could not find a way to remove the spring clip that holds on the old one. I took it to 3 hardware stores and offer to buy whatever tool would get that old bearing off. A total of 7 guys tried to get it off and could not. I finally bought a used motor and use the noisy one for parts. The last possibility is that the carbons in the motor are so worn down that the brass carbon holders were rubbing on the copper parts, so metal to metal mostly. Installing new carbons eliminated all the noise.
As far as the dimensions of the 301A motor I suppose it would fit inside the 404 machine. A couple of things to consider. 1. The worm gears on the two motors (that mesh with the handwheel gear) have different part numbers. I'd be concerned that the 301 gear may not mesh properly to the 404 handwheel gear. If it does not then it would make noise and whine at the least, or damage the handwheel gear at the worst. If you do this I would recommend using the 404 worm gear on the 301 motor shaft. 2. The 301 motor is rated at .53AMP while the 404 motor is rated at .73AMP. Thaat is about a 25% reduction in power with a 301 motor. Why wouldyou want that in your 404 which was built as a Heavy Duty model? Here are links to the parts list for each model so yu cn compare other motor parts: parts.singerco.com/CPpartCharts/4_4999/404.pdf parts.singerco.com/CPpartCharts/3_39999/301-1_electric.pdf
I needed to replace the ball bearing on a 404 motor, so I order one form Sew classic part no. 196630 and it won't fit, it's id is .375 and my bearing mfc37ff4 is .277 and the od of the new bearing is .875 and my old bearing is .867 they tell me the 196630 is the only bearing they have ever encountered on a singer 401,403, 404, and have no idea why mine is different can anyone help me find the correct bearing for my singer 404. Thanks
Are you sure your motor is the original PA9-8 Motor? I have had conversations with two people who have successfully changed the top bearing on that motor. The first bought the bearing from sew-classic before he removed the old bearing. Upon removal, he found a FAFNIR 37KDD bearing and said it was of better quality than the one he bought. (He is familiar with bearings from his work) He then bought the FAFNIR 37KDD and did a successful replacement. The second person had four motors. In three of them, he found a bearing marked ND 77037G and the forth was marked MRC 37 FF 4. He told me he could not find any like that and I mention the FAFNIR. He later told me he was successful in changing out one bearing to the FAFNIR 37KDD. Those are the only two people I know of who changed out a bearing successfully in the last 10 years.
@@andytubesewing1953 tried to reply last night but I don't think it went through. I have worked with bearings. Mostly larger bearings. We used a bearing heater most of the time also used co2 to freeze bearings or just the race to shrink it up to fit into a housing. I built pumps for about 7 years. Anyway I've already replaced the bearing and taken it back out since it was worng. Checked the motor and it says singer 9-28 or whatever number you said. I also used to grind small crankshafts and sometimes if we had a lot of undersized shafts the company would build them up and we would regrind them back to size. So maybe singer took there undersized motor shafts and made them smaller and used a different bearing to make it work. That way they didn't have to throw the shafts and rotors out. Thanks for all your help.
@@charleswagner8658 It's nice to hear from someone with your experience. If you ever feel like posting a video about changing that bearing I would be happy to inform my viewers and provide a link to your channel. The part number sew classic uses is the one shown in the original parts manual (196630). I guess anything can happen at a larger corp and factory so maybe they did as you suggested about the shafts. They made all their own motors so it could have happened. The original shaft number is 197705 and should be engraved or stamped right on the shaft. Thanks for sharing and good luck.
@@andytubesewing1953 thanks for answering. I will think about it. But for now I'll just keep watching yours and learning from your experience. Thanks Chuck
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Andy, you’re right. Taking out the motor is not the hardest part. Thanks...
Love your videos! You've helped me immeasurably!
Thank you, Melanie. I'm happy to know that.
Hello Andy - I am getting a 404 up from the grave. My 404 motor will not come out. I have tried pulling the motor itself, I have tried (with reluctant) hitting the top of the motor with wood and a hammer. Still the motor will not come out. Any suggestions is wanted. Thank you.
It must be stuck very hard. Here is what I would try. One or the other, or maybe both if required. Carefully get penetrating oil (like WD40) into the "tube" area of the machine where the motor is stuck to the sides of the tube. You can apply from the top or bottom area, or both. What you do not want is for oil to get INTO the motor or carbons. That has never happen to me, but it can't be a good thing for oil inside the electric motor. If you don't have penetrating oil, then alcohol or sewing machine oil. Something to soften the dried up varnished gunk inside the tube. The other thing I would try, and maybe try this first, is to use a hair dryer and blow hot air from the top and bottom of the motor area. The heat wont hurt the motor, and it may soften and/or "melt" the old oil inside. If there is rust inside the tube (I've never seen that) heating the metal can expand and contract it and "break free" the motor from the tube it slides into. When it is heated, tap on the top motor shaft a little bit. I have used heat many times to loosen stuck parts and screws, just never had to do it on a motor.
I hope this will help Kevin. I am dying to know how it turns out. Good Luck.
Hello Andy - your item worked as per heat. The motor drop in a few seconds. I have been working on this item for about one week - never thought on heat. Thank you. I am a subscriber.
Great news! Now you know. So glad to help and kind of you to let me know. Oh, and thanks for the sub.
I have cleaned up a dirty 404 and oiled the machine, greased the gears and serviced the button footcontroller. There is a growling noise coming from the motor. I saw your video on opening up the 301 PA motor, but I have not opened one yet. Is the 404 PA motor the same as a 301 PA motor so that I could follow your 301 motor opening/cleaning video instructions on the 404 motor? Any suggestions on what the growl noise might be? Your videos are awesome. Thanks for publishing them. Hope that you will be able to do a video on opening a Singer Featherweight motor.
You can use the 404 motor video, yes. The original 301 (first production run) the motor had a silver "lubrication" tube like they took a featherweight motor and put it in a PA style housing. I have never opened one up, so not sure what it is like inside. Starting with the second run, they added the "A" to 301 and changed to a sealed motor like what is in the 401,403, 500, 503. etc. so it's virtually the same motor.
The growling can be a couple of things. If the textolite gear on the handwheel is dry, without grease, it will make a louder whine sound. The whine is common with the style of gear and needs to be greased. Look at this video around 20:10 and I show greasing the handwheel gear:
ruclips.net/video/raYAkJ0-jic/видео.html
Another possibility is the sealed bearing at the top of the PA motor aluminum tube that the shaft comes thru. If that bearing dried out it can be very noisy. To test this I had to take the motor out of the machine, lay it on the bench but hook it back up to the electrical wires from the back of the receptacle. That way I was just testing the motor without any contact to the handwheel. It was still noisy, so I knew it was not a dry gear. I tried to carefully oil the bearing, but the oil just ran down the shaft inside the tube. I bought a new bearing from sew-classic, but could not find a way to remove the spring clip that holds on the old one. I took it to 3 hardware stores and offer to buy whatever tool would get that old bearing off. A total of 7 guys tried to get it off and could not. I finally bought a used motor and use the noisy one for parts.
The last possibility is that the carbons in the motor are so worn down that the brass carbon holders were rubbing on the copper parts, so metal to metal mostly. Installing new carbons eliminated all the noise.
Andy Tube Thank you, when I can get back to it, I hope it is just the carbon brushes that need to be replaced. I greased the textolite gear.
Thanks Andy!
👍
Alright I'm gonna go try this out, hopefully all goes well 🤞🏽
You can do it, Angela. I think when you get the mot loose you'll be able to turn the gear and the motor will run again. Good luck!
Will a singer 301 motor work in asinger 404 macine?
As far as the dimensions of the 301A motor I suppose it would fit inside the 404 machine. A couple of things to consider. 1. The worm gears on the two motors (that mesh with the handwheel gear) have different part numbers. I'd be concerned that the 301 gear may not mesh properly to the 404 handwheel gear. If it does not then it would make noise and whine at the least, or damage the handwheel gear at the worst. If you do this I would recommend using the 404 worm gear on the 301 motor shaft.
2. The 301 motor is rated at .53AMP while the 404 motor is rated at .73AMP. Thaat is about a 25% reduction in power with a 301 motor. Why wouldyou want that in your 404 which was built as a Heavy Duty model?
Here are links to the parts list for each model so yu cn compare other motor parts:
parts.singerco.com/CPpartCharts/4_4999/404.pdf
parts.singerco.com/CPpartCharts/3_39999/301-1_electric.pdf
I needed to replace the ball bearing on a 404 motor, so I order one form Sew classic part no. 196630 and it won't fit, it's id is .375 and my bearing mfc37ff4 is .277 and the od of the new bearing is .875 and my old bearing is .867 they tell me the 196630 is the only bearing they have ever encountered on a singer 401,403, 404, and have no idea why mine is different can anyone help me find the correct bearing for my singer 404. Thanks
Are you sure your motor is the original PA9-8 Motor? I have had conversations with two people who have successfully changed the top bearing on that motor. The first bought the bearing from sew-classic before he removed the old bearing. Upon removal, he found a FAFNIR 37KDD bearing and said it was of better quality than the one he bought. (He is familiar with bearings from his work) He then bought the FAFNIR 37KDD and did a successful replacement. The second person had four motors. In three of them, he found a bearing marked ND 77037G and the forth was marked MRC 37 FF 4. He told me he could not find any like that and I mention the FAFNIR. He later told me he was successful in changing out one bearing to the FAFNIR 37KDD. Those are the only two people I know of who changed out a bearing successfully in the last 10 years.
@@andytubesewing1953 tried to reply last night but I don't think it went through. I have worked with bearings. Mostly larger bearings. We used a bearing heater most of the time also used co2 to freeze bearings or just the race to shrink it up to fit into a housing. I built pumps for about 7 years. Anyway I've already replaced the bearing and taken it back out since it was worng. Checked the motor and it says singer 9-28 or whatever number you said. I also used to grind small crankshafts and sometimes if we had a lot of undersized shafts the company would build them up and we would regrind them back to size. So maybe singer took there undersized motor shafts and made them smaller and used a different bearing to make it work. That way they didn't have to throw the shafts and rotors out. Thanks for all your help.
@@charleswagner8658 It's nice to hear from someone with your experience. If you ever feel like posting a video about changing that bearing I would be happy to inform my viewers and provide a link to your channel. The part number sew classic uses is the one shown in the original parts manual (196630). I guess anything can happen at a larger corp and factory so maybe they did as you suggested about the shafts. They made all their own motors so it could have happened. The original shaft number is 197705 and should be engraved or stamped right on the shaft. Thanks for sharing and good luck.
@@andytubesewing1953 thanks for answering. I will think about it. But for now I'll just keep watching yours and learning from your experience. Thanks Chuck