I’m sad for Mangini. He seemed like such a sweetheart and his drumming is otherworldly. Glad MP is back, but it’s bittersweet. Wonder if MM will go back to teaching at Berklee. If I remember correctly, he only wrote Room 137. He’s been teasing his record for a while now. He released the first single 3 weeks ago.
You seem to be assuming Mangini was more or less forced out. Given how relentless DT's touring and recording schedule is, maybe he genuinely wanted to step down.
It feels bittersweet because mangini is awesome, and it's sad and it feels a little rude to replace him, as if he isn't important. But i think we all understand that portnoy is part of the DNA of dream theater, more so than half of the current members, so even though mangini is great, nothing can replace mike portnoy WITHIN the band Dream Theater.
Mangini never deserved any of the hate that he got. He had an impossible job to fill, and he did it justice. While yes, the feel of DT was a bit different during that era of the band, you cannot deny that he came in humble, he played humble, he left humble, and respect that he deserves is immeasurable. That being said, the announcement of MP's return fell on my birthday, and while I wasn't balling my eyes out, it definitely left me speechless. The band that shaped so much of my musical development as a musician in general and a drummer regaining such a powerful influence as MP again is so big. Outside of the writing process, MP was a huge part of the mixing architecture and the overall sound of the band. Time will tell with what comes out next, but my hopes are high
Considering how big a monster of a drummer Mike Mangini is, you're right the amount of hate thrown his was ridiculous. Nah, not good enough! Are you kidding me?
He got hate because he didn't fill Portnoy's shoes basically, an impossible task. He did what was asked of him. Apparently he didn't even program the drum lines, Petrucci did. He most likely wasn't asked or expected to contribute to the album writing or production.
I love them both n all... But Tbh I found Manginis drumming to be more interesting technically and musically than Portnoys in the later part of his first DT era (post Octavarium). It was kinda samey at that point and Mangini coming in really reinvigorated the bands sound for me 🤷♀️ And the whole robot thing? You're criticising him for being... PRECISE? Fanboys gotta cope, I guess
@@richardharris9708John programmed the drum lines for ADTOE... Because they didn't have a drummer at that point and needed something to record to and use as a template for how the song would sound
Maybe I'm being naive, but I choose to believe that if Mangini really wanted to continue with them, they would have let him stay. I think the most likely scenario is, after 13 years of DT's very demanding touring and recording schedule, Mangini was somewhat indifferent about the future with them and was like "I'll stay if you guys need me to stay, but if Portnoy wants back in, I'll gladly step aside".
He did an online interview a few weeks ago where he looks very sad when asked what's next with DT. ruclips.net/video/XxjX0VKo0NM/видео.htmlsi=peZABXBFnar0LXZB&t=2923
You forget to mention when he made ammends with Labrie. That was a key moment as the two hadn't spoken for years and it was obvious that Labrie was hurt with his attitude towards him. Without Labrie getting in good terms with him this couldn't had been possible. And Mangini has been touting his solo album for weeks. And putting a lot of work on his online courses for months. That gives you something to think about the timing of this :)
It's bittersweet, I feel like Mangini had finally been fully integrated into the band, his work on the last two records DoT and View, I thought was incredible. I was blown away by his skills live and I always thought they did him a little dirty in the studio. This feels like the same gut punch I felt when I first heard Portnoy was leaving the band. Didn't see this coming at all, especially after all the members had been telling the fans to more or less "drop it" whenever they brought up Portnoy. Mangini is a class act in this whole situation. But I feel bad for him. He deserves a lot of credit and I personally will be following whatever he does next, his first two solo album singles are great and I already preordered that, excited to hear the rest of it. All this being said, I can't wait to see and hear Portnoy playing with DT again!! Really hope that he brings back the spark that revitalizes the soul of DT to create something truly special with this next album. Also can't wait to hear Portnoys take on some Mangini songs.
This is a similar situation that Van Halen had. The David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar saga. I love both ERAS. We are lucky that we had both. Same with DT drummers situation.
Wait, why dont we talk about Mike working with A7X? I thought his drumming was outstanding in the Nightmare album and one of the reasons it was as big as it was. I love A7X and The Rev, but that sound with Portnoy was so, SO clean. So cohesive and defined. Save Me being the main track im referring to. Such a masterclass in performance from Mike that i dont see many people talking about.
Well, one of the reason Mike left DT was b3cause he thought he was going to join A7X as a more permanent position. Which the guys in Avenged shot down and didn't want him to leave DT as it was just a tribute to the Rev for him to fill in on the record and the tour. Or so I've heard... some old interviews with the avenged guys talk about this...
I also thought that the drum writing by the Rev was done by the time he died but it had not been tracked yet and so when they asked portnoy to play I think it was to finish tracking revs parts and then he played on the nightmare tour I saw them when they came to Phoenix. I never thought it was a main reason why he left dream theater tho
Portnoy wanted DT to be on hiatus so he could help A7X out but the rest of DT wanted to carry on, so they hired Mangini. Portnoy then thought he would be a permanent A7X member, they gab him the boot, and he asked DT to join back but they obviously refused.
I love that Portnoy is coming back. My only struggle is that Labrie has gone down in vocal skill (just a sign of old age i guess) so i would be excited to see another vocalist on top of their game
Saw both Dream Theater and Devin a couple months ago in Redmond, WA. Amazing show. Labrie can still sing, although the lane of his voice is narrower than it used to be. When he stays out of the higher octavess live, still killer. I really don't see Devin with them at all. His interests are completely different and his catalog just as extensive. Not a fit. His voice is not a match up with what Labrie has layed down, either. Distinctly different sound and approach. Love them both.
I would argue it's the register the melodies are written in.... Petrucci writes most of the vocal melodies and programs most of the drums during Mangini's era and asks him to play what's been programmed....on Labrie's solo records, his vocals sound BADASS...he writes his own melodies in his own vocal sweet spot where he's got tons of power but it's not too high. I think what we love about DT with MP is he wrote the drums so there's a collaborative element that's not there when Petrucci programs the drums and asks someone to play what he programs...he writes drums like a guitarist....and unbelievable guitarist but still a guitarist. I saw them in July, and on the songs that were in Labrie's wheelhouse he crushed...he only sucks on the ones where the vocals are in the mesosphere. Before they fire him, they should do an album where he writes ALL his own vocal melodies. I bet he'd surprise all of us. Check out a Labrie solo album if you haven't.
Three immediate thoughts, trying to stay positive. 1. I absolutely adore Mangini. Did it long before his long stint with DT. Maybe, just maybe (Oh, how I wish it so) we will get the chance of hearing Mangini back together with Jeff Waters in Annihilator. A Waters, Padden, Mangini reunion would Blow.My.Mind. I love them so very much. 2. The Astonishing accompanied some of my dearest memories from this here mortal coil and I honestly hold it in my top 3 DT albums. It is not to everyone's taste, but dammit it evokes so many feelings. A new beginning, Heaven's Cove, the entire story arc. One of the best live shows I've ever seen and I've seen them live many times pre Mangini and post Mangini. 3. Portnoy is back were he belongs. The proof will be in the pudding. Give us a new Octavarium-esque life changer of an opus and that shall be that.
Maybe if they get a chance to write new music, they'll allow LaBrie to sing within the range he currently has, instead of expect him to still be able to sing like when he was 20. Not saying the band didn't do that before, but us fans usually want to hear the ol' classics during tours... but maybe with the Portnoy/Petrucci song writing duo being back, maybe fans will enjoy the new material.
You kinda touched on the question I had on what to expect from their next album. Is it even possible for them to still be innovative and put out a "ground breaking" album in the current landscape of prog metal? Would they even attempt to be that bold? I would hope so.
For me, the new album doesn't have to re-invent the wheel necessarily but I am hoping that the album has some balls to it, like the older DT stuff had. They made some good stuff with Mangini, but their sound definitely softened during that time period.
I don't think they really need to try and "keep up" with modern prog metal. They've been around long enough that they already have an established sound and sonic markers, they're not still chasing anything and don't need to. Anything even close to the level of Octavarium, Six Degrees, Black Clouds or any of the main bulk of portnoy era stuff would be great imo.
@@Beefnhammer Labrie is going to be an issue. I hope HOPE HOPE Labrie gets his act together now that mike is back and that mike somehow makes it so that he will be at least tolerable again.
@@necroplastful Yes you're right about that. His studio vocals are still decent enough but he's horrendous live. He's actually the reason I've never seen them live. But if there's anything we know about Portnoy, it's that he has very high standards, so maybe that'll be the thing that gets James' vocals on an acceptable level.
that used to be a thing yes but its the actual reason that octavarium started and ended on the same note they wanted to get away from doing that, it closed the loop
That’s actually something I hadn’t really realized, all the Mangini albums kind of sound similar. It seems like without Portnoy helping the writing, they kind of fell into a rut of not changing much. Those albums also feel much more prog rock with some hints of metal.
@@realscience948 Hope he puts out another album with them sometime in the future, but now I'm really glad I caught them earlier this year.
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I don't think Mike Mangini's solo record has anything to do with Mike returning to DT. My friend Ivan is playing guitar on Mangini's solo record and it's been worked on for a long time! But yeah, this is certanily crazy news!
I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm one of those people that kind of fell off of the DT train once MP left, so I can't comment much on their music past ADTOE, which is the last album of theirs I really dug into and enjoyed for the most part. But I just hope that it was all mutual between everyone involved. It does come as a sudden decision to boot Mangini after over a decade of him being in the band, but at the same time, I felt like the heart and soul of DT left when Portnoy exited the band. So, it is what it is. It's exciting news, to be sure, but we'll have to wait and see how their next album turns out. At least I can confidently say that I'll be checking it out this time around unlike their past few albums.
Just recently watched Prog Report's video on Opeth albums with Portnoy and I love it when he talks about why he thinks him and Mikael are such good freinds: both love all kinds of different wild music and love to talk about it. He seems to have that breadth and depth of musical knowledge that probably gave DT an edge in composition. Also, he mentions how him and Mikael "stole" ideas from one another, which is just the cutest and coolest thing ever!
"But we don't talk about that" Dude, I saw Avenged with Portnoy on drums and it was absolutely sick. Thrilled that I got to see that. The drums on Nightmare were Killer.
On a different scale, this reminds me so much of when Sevendust let Sonny Mayo go so they could get Clint Lowery, their original guitarist, back in the band...
I don't mind Portnoy being back in Dream Theater. However Mangini joining the band was probably the best thing that ever happened to them as he helped breathe a fresh new life into the band and his work with the band was incredible in his own right.
@@Prognosis__that was my biggest problem with View from the Top. I love it, and they did explore some new-ish stuff, but it definitely sounded like Mangini-era DT
What I'm most excited about is getting the Portnoy drum sound back to their production. I actually really like Mangini's style and Dream Theater's sound has evolved in a way that fits his drumming (or he's just a great drummer who has adjusted his style to fit the records), but it's interesting to hear if they go back to their more classic sound or if they keep this modern edge.
Mike portnoy will be important in live performances. I think he will figure out the things they are lacking. They were getting too robotic and mike will bring back a little chaos and fun imo. At the very least it will bring back a little hype and expectation. Cuz one of the things of DT being such a diciplined band is that everybody take it for granted.
I also like the albums on which Mangini drums. Moreover, the recent albums have attracted many new fans who may not necessarily know Portnoy or may not like the older recordings. It will be interesting to see how these new fans will react to Portnoy and his eccentric nature.
I will miss his world class hand and foot speed for sure....he really pushed the rest of the guys to max speed and I loved it...i really feel that he brought some maturity to the band as well... I been following these guys since I was in high school and I really felt it when I heard the news.....I just figured MM would be there til the end, but things do change and i get why portnoy is coming back.
When hearing the news I quickly checked Portnoy's twitter for the first time in ages and saw that he left the platform in protest and I was quickly reminded of... melodrama... Celebrity walled gardens don't look so hot in the age of influencer access. Mustaine figured it out, hopefully Portnoy does too. That aside, as an IaW/Awake/SFAM era fan boy I'm already looking forward to the next release more than any since SFAM. I was a fan of Mangini before DT, and will be always, and I look forward to what he does next. IMO this is nothing but a huge opportunity for him to continue his chain of success.
I’ve always felt that Portnoy was the person making the songs more accessible to regular music lovers. Rudess’ influence seems to make it weirder and stranger and in the Mangini era Rudess seemed to not have a balancing influence
As excited as I am, I just wonder if this means the end of the Winery Dogs AND Sons of Apollo… obviously it’s amazing that Mike’s back with DT and the music they release is sure to be great (hopefully), but man… Just a shame because those are two of my favorite bands.
Man, I hope they come through with a new concept album. I was 12 when my dad took me to see them play scenes and I’ve been in love with the idea of larger stories being told through music since
Great video. Of the dozen or so videos on this topic I've watched in the past two days, this is the best. For me, it's gonna be most interesting to hear how Portnoy plays the Mangini-era songs (still note-for-note, or will he change it up slightly?).
MP is NOWHERE near the technical ability of MM. He’ll do his own thing for sure. I still prefer the feel MP has over MM, so I’m very excited that he’s back. I’ve heard from someone who saw DT this year that MM looked bored and wasn’t his usual self, so it was most probably a mutual decision.
I'm pretty excited to have him back, Mangini is one of the most talented drummers on the planet but there's something about the chemistry between Petrucci and Portnoy that elevated their music to another level for me
19:08 is EXACTLY how I felt about "A view from the top of the World" For me only becoming an active listener after 2017 I really got into them with Octavarium. Then when I felt I had wrapped around that and wanted something different but still challenging I jumped into the Astonishing, not knowing any story behind it, and I really digged some of it (especially three days). Then I understood what it was about and tried to take the time listening to it front to end. After that it left me with the same feeling Octavarium did, sort of like the emptiness after finishing a great movie, wanting more but knowing there isn't. Then came Distance over time and it didn't fill that void, but it also didn't try. It felt like it was meant to be somewhat "easier" to the ear, very pleasing to the ear (especially the fall into the light melodic solo part). Then "a view from the top of the world" came out and for me it was dissappointing. It was neither easy to the ear as distance over time nor did it match the emotional and composing richness of Octavarium and Astonishing. Conclusively: seeing someone who was a big part of writing Octavarium come back is a great sign, especially since other prog bands' styles (Polyphia and Periphery) really tend to bore me.
Pretty pumped about this news, and didn't see it coming. I agree with you on everything about it, especially regarding Mangini and the best Dream Theater era. Thanks for covering this!
I've hung out with both Mikes and JP (on separate occasions), and I can confirm that they are all the nicest people you'll ever meet. I wish them all the best. MP in DT feels right though.
I've been a DT fan for decades and I'm glad MP is back -- MM is a fantastic drummer (and perhaps *technically* better than MP) but MP has way more power and creativity than MM, in my opinion.
The really interesting tidbit no one mentioned yet (from what I see) is... there most definitely has been at least one jam session with all of them to test the waters and see what the "new DT" will sound like... and if we know MP, he most definitely recorded it... (starts to put hacker hat on...)
If you listen to NMB and Transatlantic I do think MP uses his knowledge of all music and like this magnum opus epic songwriting journey vibe to the table. And when I nerd out with my buddies listening to DT we geek out at the little easter eggs.. to me thats cool and what DT is lacking. That breaking the fourth wall self awareness aspect.
Dude totally jumped over A Change of Seasons. ;-) I actually really liked the last album. However, I never listened to LTE 3 until today. I completely understand why they brought him back.
Excellent vid Mike! I would equate this to Chris DeGarmo reuniting with Queensryche while Geoff Tate was still in the band (in theory). I think Mike Portnoy had a good deal of influence on the songwriting, if not the direction of DT musically. MP was credited in over 60+ DT songs. I'm excited to hear what comes of this reunion. I've followed Portnoy quite closely since he left, and he many incredible projects he was part of since. He's a big historian, and obviously an absolute monster of a drummer, so yeah, having him back is a big positive. MP was credited in over 60+ DT songs. Mike Mangini publicly has handled everything with such class and grace. It cannot be emphasized enough what gentleman he is, and how Dream Theater was so grateful to continue on with him in the band. He's an absolute monster behind the kit! I'm also excited to hear what he comes up with next, and hopefully he will have many side projects as well. Mike Mangini has at least 13 songwriting credits on Dream Theater songs, so his input in the band wasn't simply to keep the seat warm. He contributed to the sound of the band, and I enjoyed that era of DT.
I've ever had any issue with Mike Mangini. He seems like a great drummer and a great guy. All I know is that I haven't enjoyed any Dream Theater albums since Black Clouds and Silver Linings, so yeah, I'm excited to hear if they can put out something that sparks my interest again.
13:03 Interesting you would say that, as despite Portnoy not appearing on the record, A Dramatic Turn of Events was entirely written *before* Portnoy's departure, thus explaining the major differences in writing between that and DT13.
Huge Dream Theater fan since 1991 here. My perspective: Mangini was great. Good dude. Awesome drummer. Portnoy IS Dream Theater. . . . . Also, there's no way for DT to fully tour or return to form with James LaBrie right now. I'm a huge fan of him but he just can't sing anymore. You don't touch that elephant in the room here.
I can't agree more on that as a life-time DT fan. When Portnoy was there with JP and Rudess (from Scenes from the memory to Black clouds) It was all astonishing and ground breaking. After Portnoy left, I agree that their albums were good but not excellent. It proves that MP's contribution was amazing.
Two things. First off, I think, naturally, given the situation with a founding member, leaving and a replacement coming in, I could imagine there would be a little bit of a “Jason Newsted” scenario happening with Mangini. He was in the band, but not IN as in fully in the band, kind of a semi long-term session player. (hinted by MM’s own admission of essentially filling the drum spot) Secondly, when Portnoy went to see Dream Theater live, last year and fences were mended, especially between Labrie and Portnoy, the reasons for Mike, no longer being in the band, no longer existed at that point. And although this news of him re-joining is about 72 hours old at this point, I think this has probably been in the works, slightly after that fateful meeting between MP and the rest of the band, last year. That also makes sense in terms of the timing of Mangini’s solo album. Which, if my take on it holds any accuracy, that’s a good thing, because that would be a real shit thing to do to Mike Mangini just to say, “hey bud, you’re out” out of the blue.
"Black clouds ..." was actually their last decent album up to this day, that I still listen to from time to time. All that happened from 2010 to 2024 should be called "The Wasted Years", literally. P.S. I don't know why, but Mangini's drums on all his DT albums sounded like shit. Seems like they treated him like Metallica did it with Jason Newsted in AJFA era, but for 14 years in a row :D
I think ADTOE had drum parts written by Portnoy, and recorded by Mangini...not sure though... I have not heard Distance Over Time, but Astonishing was good.
@@saaranshkulkarni2350 I should give DOT a listen, especially Untethered Angel, S2N, and Pale Blue Dot. Some might call it a safe album, but it can still knock you over.
@@saaranshkulkarni2350No. JP composed the music for ADTOE and programmed simple drum parts on MIDI along with it, and Mangini improved upon it after he joined. Portnoy didn't compose anything in ADTOE.
@@saaranshkulkarni2350Also yeah, the astonishing is an incredible album. Just because it leaned more on the classical/operatic style (which lots of metal fans would find boring) doesn't mean it's objectively bad or boring, like its haters say it is. It's sounds like nothing that DT has ever done before, and the album should've been commended more for that, not constantly being shit on by people who won't give it a chance to grow on them. It really is just a well written and composed piece of music. I personally love how it deals with its distinct character themes and leitmotifs.
I became a fan as 6 degrees come out, my first album I got into was Scenes, and loved it. I feel as you put it, the Rudess/Portnoy era was the best, all those albums are epic. But my favourite album is actually Falling into Infinity (I know, someone’s gonna throw tomatoes at me). As for the Mangini albums, he’s great as a drummer, but I feel there was something missing with the writing. Glad Portnoy is back, let’s see if they can wow me like they did before, I’m hopeful
I became a Dream Theater fan right around when MP left so I never had the chance to see him with DT live. While I fully respect and admire Mangini's work and work ethic during his 13 year stint with DT, I am SO excited for MP returning. The Mangini era of albums are fun listens but they sound like JP's material with sprinkles of everyone else's input. MP 's songwriting perfectly complemented and balanced out JP's during that 1999-2010 run of banger after banger album. Really interesting point about MP being more in the know with what's new in the prog and metal scene. It certainly helps that his son is the same way. I loved the Austin Dreamsonic show this past summer and I would love to see Dreamsonic 24 bring on Periphery and Polyphia to help diversify the band's image, palette, and maybe even attract new fans.
I got into DT around the time Mike left too, but now that he's back, I have the chance to see my favorite DT lineup live which is a great feeling. My favorite concert I've been to was when I was DT in 2022, Mangini did a great job though, and was faithful to the Portnoy tracks, I'm sad to see him go, but man, I'm just so pumped that Portnoy's back.
Never visited your channel before but I really enjoyed your comical/sarcastic (and accurate) recap of the Portnoy/Dream Theater reunion. Personally, I absolutely LOVED this news!!! With all due respect to Mangini, Portnoy IS Dream Theater and I can't wait to see them live together again! Btw, I've met Mike Portnoy twice. Great guy
First of all, I'm pretty sure I remember hearing about the Mangini solo album a little while BEFORE the news of Portnoy rejoining DT. But I'm also quite sure that Mr. Mangini Has and WILL have PLENTY of other things to do. But I DO appreciate what he "did for us in our time of need," so I say we just "thank him for his service," and hope the things will now be getting back to normal. Well, normal for DREAM THEATER, anyway...!...
I have a very niche guess as to where DT's sound is gonna converge to, now that MP is back (I could be completely wrong on this btw). I think Mike will try to incorporate elements from modern metalcore into DT's sound, and that may be because his son is in a metalcore band (Tallah). I'd like to believe that because of his son's involvement in metalcore, MP gets to listen to a lot of it, which I think he might try to bring into DT. Now, that does not mean Labire will be growling all of a sudden lmao, but I think we can expect a heavier side of DT (more chuggy riffs, possibly breakdowns, etc.). I personally think that would be a very interesting direction for DT! Again, I might be completely wrong.
I bought a meet and greet with the band when they played at the Tabernacle in Atlanta back around 2003 ish. Meeting Portnoy and Petrucci was one of the coolest things ever and I have some great pics of me with the band. I am so excited for this news.
In my (maybe not so humble) opinion, they are creatively stuck for the last decade. But for me the biggest issue is the sound of the band, it just sounds very bland, especially with Petruccis sterile guitar tone, the way Rudess old synth sound and overly soloing approach. Myung is not being given enough sound space, and the drums sound computerised (Im not talking about Manginis playing, Im purely talking about the sound). They really need to hire a new, young and fresh producer with new ideas, because that role is not well suited for Petrucci.
I'm no hardcore fan, but I don't get why the reaction is so intense. I remember plenty of complaining before he left about them trying to sound like Metallica and Muse, bringing awful not-quite growling vocals in, and more or less overpowering the music with his insistence on everything having a gimmick to it. Dream Theater hadn't been classic 'Dream Theater' for a while, even then. Are rotating setlists for shows you aren't going to all of really that important?
Thanks to Mike Mangini. 13 years of smart work with Dream Theater. Welcome Mike Portnoy back to the Dream Theater home. working back 40 years. I welcome Dream Theater's latest work. awesome. 😎👍
I'm glad Mike is back, but I'm not crying about it either. However about my favorite DT albums, i have some unpopular opinions... My favorites are Falling Into Infinity, Black Clouds, and Distance Over Time
I’ve loved the Mangini era, and “A View From the Top of the World” was one of my favorite DT albums, but I think you did a great job of summarizing what was so special about the Portnoy albums. Excited to hear what they do with him back in the fold!
Took the words right outta my mouth. ADTOE is my favorite record from them as well! Man, MM will be sorely missed, it seemed like Mangini in DOT and A View gelled and grooved 500% more with the band, and i would've loved to hear one last album with him. The most humblest, funniest, jolliest, and nicest drummer that i know of 🙏
ADTOE and View are my absolute favorites from the entire catalog. I liked Portnoy on Images and Awake, but after that it was the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. Part of me think they'll regret the decision and invite Mangini back.
@@danlc95…for an anniversary show. There’s no way in hell they’re backtracking on a founding member (then again, I never would have thought they would bring MP as a member)
How wrong is it of me that I just had this image in my head of a Big Bang Theory-like scene where Portnoy comes up to the drum kit and says to Mangini, "You're in my spot?"
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The perfect drummer would be a combination of Mangini's speed and precision together with Portnoy's groove and creativity. They should have a baby...
I'm psyched that MP is back. I appreciate Mangini's talent and playing. He's a technical beast. He's going to land on his feet. He'll be fine. As for the emotional bit, and "people crying on social media about people they've never met" - You're being a bit dismissive and uncharitable with that, I think. I'm sure I don't need to tell you how incredibly powerful music is to many. There's an absolute emotional attachment to it. Music can move someone like little else. Memories are bound up in different songs. Songs can have special meaning to people, etc. With that in mind, as you acknowledge, MP was a huge part of DT's sound and personality that many came to know and love. His absence in the band is evident just by listening to the last several albums without him. I'm definitely in the camp who feels their work without him was "good" but feels incomplete. Like having a crucial ingredient missing from an otherwise favorite meal. The missing ingredient was Portnoy not being involved in the writing and performing... and that became evident to me in listening to and watching his work in his other projects. The ingredient missing from DT's work was present in his other projects. I feel the same way about Pink Floyd without Waters. Whatever you think about PF, with and/or without Waters, his fingerprint in their music with him is indelible. And it's front-and-center in his solo work. People are reacting emotionally not because they "know the members". They're emotional because it means a return back to the DT they discovered and learned to love. It's hitting in that emotional part of them. For myself, I didn't cry at the news. I was, however, smiling an awful lot after seeing it. I haven't been excited about anything new from DT since ADToE. Last album I bought was the self-titled, though I have listened to the rest. I really feel like how deep this reunion goes is well expressed by Jordan Rudess. In his statement, he talks about how the magic that happens when they're together creating music goes beyond words. That says a LOT. As for the whole "Mangini being robotic".. I can't speak for others, but for myself I agree - but not in a derogatory way, and not to say he's a lesser player. I mean it in the same sense that Neil Peart recognized the same rigidity in his own playing, which inspired him to seek out Freddie Gruber to re-learn his approach to the kit. Mike Mangini is an incredibly technical and precise player. I believe that precision comes at the cost of more rigid and, yes, robotic-sounding playing which, to me, is impressive technically, but not so enjoyable musically. Watch Portnoy playing stuff.. He's loose. He's relaxed. He's keeping time, he's playing complex stuff.. but it's organic. The result is the playing has more feel and groove, and in MP's words: "balls and chunk".
As much as it was a "never to be played again" song - There's a version of "The Best of Times" where it's Mike's Vocals instead of James. A 40th Anniversary Tour with Mangini guesting (amongst countless others) opens up the opportunity for "Frontman Portnoy" moment Hell let's get JP Singing Wither live, too!
@@bloodlinefilms My dream is Derek Sherinian and Kevin Moore fuse dvz style into one entity, but I think the Kevin side would go off and become a film professor at a small commubity college in Alaska or something.
seeing any of the documentaries about the recording of their albums is clear how Portnoy was the main creative director and guided a lot of the song directions, happy for what they would create next
Still very shocked to hear this looking forward to their next album with Portnoy! ❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
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I would love to see them push forward and innovate as they did in the "Rudess Era" of your chart, not some "member berry" stuff. It's not hard to guess that they will probably follow a Scenes from a Memory template, but I hope they make it sound more contemporary.
07:03 how? Why is 'no' not an option? That is strange since in that 'documentary' they made of the drummer selection, they themselves mentioned that MP asked to return to the band after some months and they had to deny because MM had already asked to be left from his job to be able to be with the band. Strange...maybe 'no' in 2023 is more difficult than back then.
Portnoy originally left because he wanted DT to go on hiatus for him to work on other projects, namely Avenged Sevenfold (at that moment in time). The DT guys rejected this and wanted to continue making albums and touring. After Avenged Sevenfold said they didn't want Portnoy to be a full member, he asked to come back to DT but they had already moved on with a far better drummer.
It was that mainly but MP and I believe Petrucci later said Mike felt they were all starting to stagnate a little in their writing and felt a break would help (not a break from music but a break from writing DT music) Seeing how mangini was kind of locked down up until the latest album it does appear that MP was a little right in that regard. There definitely was a falling out between him and Labrie though. They've made up since but from MPs "slips" in interviews you can tell he was a bit bitter at Labrie.
Very mixed on this. Mangini is a ridiculously capable drummer and amazing human being who truly understands people and was becoming more intertwined with DT and helping bring them to new heights in my opinion. Obviously I love their stuff with Portnoy so I'm sort of excited and wondering but... how did this happen? Is MP going to play the stuff Mangini came up with with the same level of precision? A lot of that stuff is on an entirely different level technique-wise. And they both have great feel so no need for that argument.
For all those who feel bad about Mangini, he had a dream job for a decade. I’m sure he’s quite content with what he got, even if he would have liked to have kept doing it lol ..there’s something special about these magical lineups and replacements should always honor them and step aside when asked. I can’t even imagine Arnel Pineda telling Steve Perry, “no, you can’t come back. It’s my band now.” 🤣🤣
So this begs the question. Who is going to be the new singer? Because we all have a pretty good idea who Mike had the biggest problem with. It makes me wonder if JLB has said he is either retiring or moving on to other things like a solo thing, opening the door for Portnoy to return. I’m just speculating here.
1:14 as someone who appreciates Dt but doesn't know Avenged Sevenfold, why that comment? Also, people love to say that LTE is just instrumental DT which is true, but LTE is not three members of DT, it is DT that is three members of LTE (Rudess was there before joining DT).
The Astonishing album sounds like a Rudess flavoured album with a lot of theatrical, classical piano styled playing. Songs felt very Broadway. VFTTOTW seemed more rhythmically complex, which could only have come from Mangini, possibly Rudess. However, my favourite albums are Dramatic Turns + VFTTOW with favourite songs all from the Mangini era, Illumination theory, PBDot, Alien, VFTTOTW and a bunch of others sprinkled within the Mangini era. Sad to see they won’t explore the rhythmic element further. Portnoy will take it back to that classic sound and sense of rhythm, easy to count, move and rock to, but hey, life goes on.
Completely agree with this summation but I think your can shake things up in other ways, one being replacing labrie or even bringing in a second vocalist to give us a rest from his mature and strained vocals. Loved Theresa in scenes
I met Jordan Rudess last year his first show at the Ridgefield Play house in CT during a VIP session and he is the nicest dude, and incredibly talented still at his age. He did not look 65 at the time and he still doesn't.
My first exposure to Dream Theater was through the Black Clouds and Silver Linings album. I broke my arm in a car accident. I heard A Nightmare to Remember and the song just spoke to me and the instrumentation was out of this world. I got a friend to buy me the album and learned who Mike Portnoy is and he became my favorite drummer. I wasn't a DT fan for long but was crushed when he left. I actually accepted the fact Portnoy wouldn't return to DT but got to see him live on the Petrucci Terminal Velocity tour last year and said this is incredible but what if he actually went back to DT. A year later here we are. I wasn't one of those who trashed Mike Mangini just because I'm a Portnoy fan. Mangini put in incredible work for DT with Illumination Theory being my favorite with MM on drums. I wish Mangini the best and will check out Invisible Signs in couple of weeks. I'm happy MP is home and look forward to this "final incarnation of Dream Theater"
I saw DT with Mangini and it wasn't the same. Something was missing. The records suffered too. MP co-wrote the music and he wrote heavier riffs, this was missing from DT's records. I'm really looking forward to the new music and tour.
I don't remember where the interview is but I think it's from the last year or so. Mangini is asked about his contributions to Dream Theater. He said in the interview that the band had been really slow to bring him into the writing process. He had contributed some but wanted to do more. He didn't seem to quite understand why the band wasn't using him more and seemed a little upset about it when the interviewer pushed for more answers. I guess only Petrucci or Rudess could answer why Mangini wasn't brought in to help write more.
Mangini is a beast behind the kit and he seems like a stand up type of guy. I'm sure there were some discussions early on about this possibility and if Mangini wasn't given more power in the band then he could only assume he was an at-will drummer. I'm guessing this wasn't completely shocking to Mr. Mangini. All the best to everyone.
I hope Portnoy brings back some edge. They're all older now so its different, but I want them to get their balls out so to speak. Had enough airy symphonic stuff.
I’m sad for Mangini. He seemed like such a sweetheart and his drumming is otherworldly. Glad MP is back, but it’s bittersweet. Wonder if MM will go back to teaching at Berklee. If I remember correctly, he only wrote Room 137. He’s been teasing his record for a while now. He released the first single 3 weeks ago.
Thats's basically how I feel about it.
You seem to be assuming Mangini was more or less forced out. Given how relentless DT's touring and recording schedule is, maybe he genuinely wanted to step down.
@@Beefnhammer uh no. But again like Mike said it’s not like he could say no.
It feels bittersweet because mangini is awesome, and it's sad and it feels a little rude to replace him, as if he isn't important. But i think we all understand that portnoy is part of the DNA of dream theater, more so than half of the current members, so even though mangini is great, nothing can replace mike portnoy WITHIN the band Dream Theater.
I’m at berklee, I’m gonna have to keep an eye out for him… lol
Mangini never deserved any of the hate that he got. He had an impossible job to fill, and he did it justice. While yes, the feel of DT was a bit different during that era of the band, you cannot deny that he came in humble, he played humble, he left humble, and respect that he deserves is immeasurable.
That being said, the announcement of MP's return fell on my birthday, and while I wasn't balling my eyes out, it definitely left me speechless. The band that shaped so much of my musical development as a musician in general and a drummer regaining such a powerful influence as MP again is so big. Outside of the writing process, MP was a huge part of the mixing architecture and the overall sound of the band. Time will tell with what comes out next, but my hopes are high
Considering how big a monster of a drummer Mike Mangini is, you're right the amount of hate thrown his was ridiculous. Nah, not good enough! Are you kidding me?
He got hate because he didn't fill Portnoy's shoes basically, an impossible task. He did what was asked of him. Apparently he didn't even program the drum lines, Petrucci did. He most likely wasn't asked or expected to contribute to the album writing or production.
I love them both n all...
But Tbh I found Manginis drumming to be more interesting technically and musically than Portnoys in the later part of his first DT era (post Octavarium). It was kinda samey at that point and Mangini coming in really reinvigorated the bands sound for me 🤷♀️
And the whole robot thing? You're criticising him for being... PRECISE? Fanboys gotta cope, I guess
@@richardharris9708John programmed the drum lines for ADTOE... Because they didn't have a drummer at that point and needed something to record to and use as a template for how the song would sound
DT was LUCKY to have 2 Talented Drummers.
Mangini was a Great Professional and Class Act.
Maybe I'm being naive, but I choose to believe that if Mangini really wanted to continue with them, they would have let him stay. I think the most likely scenario is, after 13 years of DT's very demanding touring and recording schedule, Mangini was somewhat indifferent about the future with them and was like "I'll stay if you guys need me to stay, but if Portnoy wants back in, I'll gladly step aside".
Very well could of been that
@@coreyyates3385have course it could of
Probably the most likely scenario frankly
He did an online interview a few weeks ago where he looks very sad when asked what's next with DT. ruclips.net/video/XxjX0VKo0NM/видео.htmlsi=peZABXBFnar0LXZB&t=2923
Choosing to believe something you made up in your head with no evidence is absolutely being naïve
You forget to mention when he made ammends with Labrie. That was a key moment as the two hadn't spoken for years and it was obvious that Labrie was hurt with his attitude towards him. Without Labrie getting in good terms with him this couldn't had been possible.
And Mangini has been touting his solo album for weeks. And putting a lot of work on his online courses for months. That gives you something to think about the timing of this :)
LaBrie sucks. I've always loved DT, great musicians and all, but LaBrie kinda ruins it for me most of the time. They need a better vocalist for sure.
Too bad Labrat couldn’t leave the band and get someone like Jelusick
@@VincentKarabouladMusiqueoh shut up 🤬
@@eddieroxxyou suck
@@Enigmalakeoh 🤬
It's bittersweet, I feel like Mangini had finally been fully integrated into the band, his work on the last two records DoT and View, I thought was incredible. I was blown away by his skills live and I always thought they did him a little dirty in the studio. This feels like the same gut punch I felt when I first heard Portnoy was leaving the band. Didn't see this coming at all, especially after all the members had been telling the fans to more or less "drop it" whenever they brought up Portnoy.
Mangini is a class act in this whole situation. But I feel bad for him. He deserves a lot of credit and I personally will be following whatever he does next, his first two solo album singles are great and I already preordered that, excited to hear the rest of it.
All this being said, I can't wait to see and hear Portnoy playing with DT again!! Really hope that he brings back the spark that revitalizes the soul of DT to create something truly special with this next album. Also can't wait to hear Portnoys take on some Mangini songs.
This is a similar situation that Van Halen had. The David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar saga. I love both ERAS. We are lucky that we had both. Same with DT drummers situation.
Petrucci an a-hole and entitled.
Always has been.
Wait, why dont we talk about Mike working with A7X? I thought his drumming was outstanding in the Nightmare album and one of the reasons it was as big as it was. I love A7X and The Rev, but that sound with Portnoy was so, SO clean. So cohesive and defined. Save Me being the main track im referring to. Such a masterclass in performance from Mike that i dont see many people talking about.
It had some drama in it that's kinda awkward. That is why.
Well, one of the reason Mike left DT was b3cause he thought he was going to join A7X as a more permanent position. Which the guys in Avenged shot down and didn't want him to leave DT as it was just a tribute to the Rev for him to fill in on the record and the tour. Or so I've heard... some old interviews with the avenged guys talk about this...
I also thought that the drum writing by the Rev was done by the time he died but it had not been tracked yet and so when they asked portnoy to play I think it was to finish tracking revs parts and then he played on the nightmare tour I saw them when they came to Phoenix. I never thought it was a main reason why he left dream theater tho
Portnoy wanted DT to be on hiatus so he could help A7X out but the rest of DT wanted to carry on, so they hired Mangini. Portnoy then thought he would be a permanent A7X member, they gab him the boot, and he asked DT to join back but they obviously refused.
Drumming on nightmare was quite bland compared to their previous records
I love that Portnoy is coming back. My only struggle is that Labrie has gone down in vocal skill (just a sign of old age i guess) so i would be excited to see another vocalist on top of their game
Imagine Devin Townsend as dream theaters vocalist
Saw both Dream Theater and Devin a couple months ago in Redmond, WA. Amazing show. Labrie can still sing, although the lane of his voice is narrower than it used to be. When he stays out of the higher octavess live, still killer.
I really don't see Devin with them at all. His interests are completely different and his catalog just as extensive. Not a fit. His voice is not a match up with what Labrie has layed down, either. Distinctly different sound and approach.
Love them both.
Myles Kennedy would be a great fit
I would argue it's the register the melodies are written in.... Petrucci writes most of the vocal melodies and programs most of the drums during Mangini's era and asks him to play what's been programmed....on Labrie's solo records, his vocals sound BADASS...he writes his own melodies in his own vocal sweet spot where he's got tons of power but it's not too high. I think what we love about DT with MP is he wrote the drums so there's a collaborative element that's not there when Petrucci programs the drums and asks someone to play what he programs...he writes drums like a guitarist....and unbelievable guitarist but still a guitarist. I saw them in July, and on the songs that were in Labrie's wheelhouse he crushed...he only sucks on the ones where the vocals are in the mesosphere. Before they fire him, they should do an album where he writes ALL his own vocal melodies. I bet he'd surprise all of us. Check out a Labrie solo album if you haven't.
Agree. I would love to see a younger guy like Dino Jelusick
Three immediate thoughts, trying to stay positive.
1. I absolutely adore Mangini. Did it long before his long stint with DT. Maybe, just maybe (Oh, how I wish it so) we will get the chance of hearing Mangini back together with Jeff Waters in Annihilator. A Waters, Padden, Mangini reunion would Blow.My.Mind. I love them so very much.
2. The Astonishing accompanied some of my dearest memories from this here mortal coil and I honestly hold it in my top 3 DT albums. It is not to everyone's taste, but dammit it evokes so many feelings. A new beginning, Heaven's Cove, the entire story arc. One of the best live shows I've ever seen and I've seen them live many times pre Mangini and post Mangini.
3. Portnoy is back were he belongs. The proof will be in the pudding. Give us a new Octavarium-esque life changer of an opus and that shall be that.
Mangini was also magnificent in Extreme! I would love to see him back with those guys honestly!
I'm really happy MP is back in the band, but LaBrie is just about tapped out vocally, like Geddy Lee in his latter years. Cautious optimism...
Yeah LaBrie doesn't have the power he used to. Sad, but inevitable
Maybe if they get a chance to write new music, they'll allow LaBrie to sing within the range he currently has, instead of expect him to still be able to sing like when he was 20. Not saying the band didn't do that before, but us fans usually want to hear the ol' classics during tours... but maybe with the Portnoy/Petrucci song writing duo being back, maybe fans will enjoy the new material.
Thanks!
You kinda touched on the question I had on what to expect from their next album. Is it even possible for them to still be innovative and put out a "ground breaking" album in the current landscape of prog metal? Would they even attempt to be that bold? I would hope so.
For me, the new album doesn't have to re-invent the wheel necessarily but I am hoping that the album has some balls to it, like the older DT stuff had. They made some good stuff with Mangini, but their sound definitely softened during that time period.
I don't think they really need to try and "keep up" with modern prog metal. They've been around long enough that they already have an established sound and sonic markers, they're not still chasing anything and don't need to. Anything even close to the level of Octavarium, Six Degrees, Black Clouds or any of the main bulk of portnoy era stuff would be great imo.
@@Beefnhammer Labrie is going to be an issue. I hope HOPE HOPE Labrie gets his act together now that mike is back and that mike somehow makes it so that he will be at least tolerable again.
@@necroplastful Yes you're right about that. His studio vocals are still decent enough but he's horrendous live. He's actually the reason I've never seen them live. But if there's anything we know about Portnoy, it's that he has very high standards, so maybe that'll be the thing that gets James' vocals on an acceptable level.
Never gonna happen with Portnoy.
I’m so happy he’s back. And that you’re talking about this
MP always loved sonically connecting albums… wonder if the next album is going to connect with the previous one or the last one he was in…
Oh wow never new that!!! That makes a ton of sense!
that used to be a thing yes but its the actual reason that octavarium started and ended on the same note they wanted to get away from doing that, it closed the loop
That’s actually something I hadn’t really realized, all the Mangini albums kind of sound similar. It seems like without Portnoy helping the writing, they kind of fell into a rut of not changing much. Those albums also feel much more prog rock with some hints of metal.
Exactly!!
I never thought he would return…he had so many bands to drum with…can’t wait to see what they do from here
Can't wait!!
At least the Winery Dogs.....may now come to an end?
@@realscience948 Hope he puts out another album with them sometime in the future, but now I'm really glad I caught them earlier this year.
I don't think Mike Mangini's solo record has anything to do with Mike returning to DT. My friend Ivan is playing guitar on Mangini's solo record and it's been worked on for a long time! But yeah, this is certanily crazy news!
I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm one of those people that kind of fell off of the DT train once MP left, so I can't comment much on their music past ADTOE, which is the last album of theirs I really dug into and enjoyed for the most part. But I just hope that it was all mutual between everyone involved. It does come as a sudden decision to boot Mangini after over a decade of him being in the band, but at the same time, I felt like the heart and soul of DT left when Portnoy exited the band. So, it is what it is. It's exciting news, to be sure, but we'll have to wait and see how their next album turns out. At least I can confidently say that I'll be checking it out this time around unlike their past few albums.
I think Portnoy coming back will almost certainly rejuvenate the band’s songwriting. Thanks for the video man.
Just recently watched Prog Report's video on Opeth albums with Portnoy and I love it when he talks about why he thinks him and Mikael are such good freinds: both love all kinds of different wild music and love to talk about it. He seems to have that breadth and depth of musical knowledge that probably gave DT an edge in composition. Also, he mentions how him and Mikael "stole" ideas from one another, which is just the cutest and coolest thing ever!
Two of my favorite drummers are Portnoy and Axenrod. Both very intricate and play odd shit. Love Opeth and DT.
It definitely took me off guard, at first I thought it was clickbait lol. Can’t wait for meaning of music part 3 my dude
I honestly preferred Mike Mangini and I really wanted to see the band live with Mangini but at least most of the other fans are happy now
You had 10+ years to act on that friend
But I only started listening to DT last year
@@puttu_racingI prefer Mangini as well, thankfully I got to see them with him 5 times
Guess you'll have to skim over the 13 years of live footage to get your fill@@puttu_racing
"But we don't talk about that"
Dude, I saw Avenged with Portnoy on drums and it was absolutely sick. Thrilled that I got to see that. The drums on Nightmare were Killer.
On a different scale, this reminds me so much of when Sevendust let Sonny Mayo go so they could get Clint Lowery, their original guitarist, back in the band...
Illumination Theory is one of my favorite DT songs, primarily due to Mancini’s masterful drumming. Gonna miss him, but happy MPs back
mancini not only a coach but a drummer too?!
I don't mind Portnoy being back in Dream Theater. However Mangini joining the band was probably the best thing that ever happened to them as he helped breathe a fresh new life into the band and his work with the band was incredible in his own right.
He’s baaaaack. Next album is going to be crazy, I’m thinking that it’ll sound more like mid 00’s DT.
I hope so, the latest several albums seem a bit “samey”
@@Prognosis__that was my biggest problem with View from the Top. I love it, and they did explore some new-ish stuff, but it definitely sounded like Mangini-era DT
I honestly hope it is, I love Octavarium and the albums proceeding and preceding it, they are my favourites!
What I'm most excited about is getting the Portnoy drum sound back to their production. I actually really like Mangini's style and Dream Theater's sound has evolved in a way that fits his drumming (or he's just a great drummer who has adjusted his style to fit the records), but it's interesting to hear if they go back to their more classic sound or if they keep this modern edge.
Mike portnoy will be important in live performances. I think he will figure out the things they are lacking. They were getting too robotic and mike will bring back a little chaos and fun imo. At the very least it will bring back a little hype and expectation. Cuz one of the things of DT being such a diciplined band is that everybody take it for granted.
I like the MM albums a lot. He will be missed.
I also like the albums on which Mangini drums. Moreover, the recent albums have attracted many new fans who may not necessarily know Portnoy or may not like the older recordings. It will be interesting to see how these new fans will react to Portnoy and his eccentric nature.
I will miss his world class hand and foot speed for sure....he really pushed the rest of the guys to max speed and I loved it...i really feel that he brought some maturity to the band as well... I been following these guys since I was in high school and I really felt it when I heard the news.....I just figured MM would be there til the end, but things do change and i get why portnoy is coming back.
When hearing the news I quickly checked Portnoy's twitter for the first time in ages and saw that he left the platform in protest and I was quickly reminded of... melodrama... Celebrity walled gardens don't look so hot in the age of influencer access. Mustaine figured it out, hopefully Portnoy does too. That aside, as an IaW/Awake/SFAM era fan boy I'm already looking forward to the next release more than any since SFAM. I was a fan of Mangini before DT, and will be always, and I look forward to what he does next. IMO this is nothing but a huge opportunity for him to continue his chain of success.
I’ve always felt that Portnoy was the person making the songs more accessible to regular music lovers. Rudess’ influence seems to make it weirder and stranger and in the Mangini era Rudess seemed to not have a balancing influence
As excited as I am, I just wonder if this means the end of the Winery Dogs AND Sons of Apollo… obviously it’s amazing that Mike’s back with DT and the music they release is sure to be great (hopefully), but man… Just a shame because those are two of my favorite bands.
One thing I noticed is that when Mangini was in the band everybody was like I hate this guy
When he left everybody was like come back Mangini
Didn't Petrucci program all the drums for ADTOE, which Mangini just played pretty much true to the original?
Man, I hope they come through with a new concept album. I was 12 when my dad took me to see them play scenes and I’ve been in love with the idea of larger stories being told through music since
Metropolis Part 3: Victoria's Back, Bitches
Great video. Of the dozen or so videos on this topic I've watched in the past two days, this is the best. For me, it's gonna be most interesting to hear how Portnoy plays the Mangini-era songs (still note-for-note, or will he change it up slightly?).
Thank you for the praise!
And I never considered that!!! It will be interesting to see how he accomodates Mangini's parts
MP is NOWHERE near the technical ability of MM. He’ll do his own thing for sure. I still prefer the feel MP has over MM, so I’m very excited that he’s back.
I’ve heard from someone who saw DT this year that MM looked bored and wasn’t his usual self, so it was most probably a mutual decision.
I don't think MP is capable of playing MM's parts verbatim. I'm sure he will modify them to his own style.
I'm pretty excited to have him back, Mangini is one of the most talented drummers on the planet but there's something about the chemistry between Petrucci and Portnoy that elevated their music to another level for me
It helps to know your writing partner for nearly 40 years. They probably know how to make certain sections of a song without even speaking a word.
19:08 is EXACTLY how I felt about "A view from the top of the World"
For me only becoming an active listener after 2017 I really got into them with Octavarium. Then when I felt I had wrapped around that and wanted something different but still challenging I jumped into the Astonishing, not knowing any story behind it, and I really digged some of it (especially three days). Then I understood what it was about and tried to take the time listening to it front to end. After that it left me with the same feeling Octavarium did, sort of like the emptiness after finishing a great movie, wanting more but knowing there isn't.
Then came Distance over time and it didn't fill that void, but it also didn't try. It felt like it was meant to be somewhat "easier" to the ear, very pleasing to the ear (especially the fall into the light melodic solo part).
Then "a view from the top of the world" came out and for me it was dissappointing. It was neither easy to the ear as distance over time nor did it match the emotional and composing richness of Octavarium and Astonishing.
Conclusively: seeing someone who was a big part of writing Octavarium come back is a great sign, especially since other prog bands' styles (Polyphia and Periphery) really tend to bore me.
Pretty pumped about this news, and didn't see it coming. I agree with you on everything about it, especially regarding Mangini and the best Dream Theater era. Thanks for covering this!
Love you
Dude, I didn't know you were into Dream Theater, Xygor! You have good taste in music AND video games, dude!
I've hung out with both Mikes and JP (on separate occasions), and I can confirm that they are all the nicest people you'll ever meet. I wish them all the best. MP in DT feels right though.
I've been a DT fan for decades and I'm glad MP is back -- MM is a fantastic drummer (and perhaps *technically* better than MP) but MP has way more power and creativity than MM, in my opinion.
The really interesting tidbit no one mentioned yet (from what I see) is... there most definitely has been at least one jam session with all of them to test the waters and see what the "new DT" will sound like... and if we know MP, he most definitely recorded it... (starts to put hacker hat on...)
If you listen to NMB and Transatlantic I do think MP uses his knowledge of all music and like this magnum opus epic songwriting journey vibe to the table. And when I nerd out with my buddies listening to DT we geek out at the little easter eggs.. to me thats cool and what DT is lacking. That breaking the fourth wall self awareness aspect.
Dude totally jumped over A Change of Seasons. ;-) I actually really liked the last album. However, I never listened to LTE 3 until today. I completely understand why they brought him back.
They should have done like King Crimson and have two or three drummers. KC sounds really badass with several drummers.
Spot on commentary and speculation! Great stuff!
Excellent vid Mike! I would equate this to Chris DeGarmo reuniting with Queensryche while Geoff Tate was still in the band (in theory). I think Mike Portnoy had a good deal of influence on the songwriting, if not the direction of DT musically. MP was credited in over 60+ DT songs. I'm excited to hear what comes of this reunion. I've followed Portnoy quite closely since he left, and he many incredible projects he was part of since. He's a big historian, and obviously an absolute monster of a drummer, so yeah, having him back is a big positive. MP was credited in over 60+ DT songs.
Mike Mangini publicly has handled everything with such class and grace. It cannot be emphasized enough what gentleman he is, and how Dream Theater was so grateful to continue on with him in the band. He's an absolute monster behind the kit! I'm also excited to hear what he comes up with next, and hopefully he will have many side projects as well. Mike Mangini has at least 13 songwriting credits on Dream Theater songs, so his input in the band wasn't simply to keep the seat warm. He contributed to the sound of the band, and I enjoyed that era of DT.
I've ever had any issue with Mike Mangini. He seems like a great drummer and a great guy. All I know is that I haven't enjoyed any Dream Theater albums since Black Clouds and Silver Linings, so yeah, I'm excited to hear if they can put out something that sparks my interest again.
I'm hoping when they put out new music, they go out on tour with Opeth. Two of my favorite prog bands that I have yet to see live.
That would be sick. Would absolutely attend that show
Just listened to some leaked songs off of Mangini’s solo album and so far they have all been brutal diss tracks on each member of dream theater 💀
13:03 Interesting you would say that, as despite Portnoy not appearing on the record, A Dramatic Turn of Events was entirely written *before* Portnoy's departure, thus explaining the major differences in writing between that and DT13.
Solely by John Petrucci. He even programmed the drums for it. Portnoy was not involved in writing that album.
Your analysis is TOP NOTCH, spot-on and highly music-based.
Congrats from a musician and DT fan since 1994
I have a feeling that this new album will have the same if not a GREATER impact than Scenes From A Memory. It will be a return to DT Mach 2.0
Huge Dream Theater fan since 1991 here. My perspective: Mangini was great. Good dude. Awesome drummer. Portnoy IS Dream Theater. . . . . Also, there's no way for DT to fully tour or return to form with James LaBrie right now. I'm a huge fan of him but he just can't sing anymore. You don't touch that elephant in the room here.
I can't agree more on that as a life-time DT fan.
When Portnoy was there with JP and Rudess (from Scenes from the memory to Black clouds) It was all astonishing and ground breaking.
After Portnoy left, I agree that their albums were good but not excellent.
It proves that MP's contribution was amazing.
Two things. First off, I think, naturally, given the situation with a founding member, leaving and a replacement coming in, I could imagine there would be a little bit of a “Jason Newsted” scenario happening with Mangini. He was in the band, but not IN as in fully in the band, kind of a semi long-term session player.
(hinted by MM’s own admission of essentially filling the drum spot)
Secondly, when Portnoy went to see Dream Theater live, last year and fences were mended, especially between Labrie and Portnoy, the reasons for Mike, no longer being in the band, no longer existed at that point. And although this news of him re-joining is about 72 hours old at this point, I think this has probably been in the works, slightly after that fateful meeting between MP and the rest of the band, last year. That also makes sense in terms of the timing of Mangini’s solo album. Which, if my take on it holds any accuracy, that’s a good thing, because that would be a real shit thing to do to Mike Mangini just to say, “hey bud, you’re out” out of the blue.
I think Mike Portnoy appearing on John Petrucci's solo album and Liquid Tension Experiment have foreshadowed that the reunion would happen eventually.
"Black clouds ..." was actually their last decent album up to this day, that I still listen to from time to time. All that happened from 2010 to 2024 should be called "The Wasted Years", literally.
P.S. I don't know why, but Mangini's drums on all his DT albums sounded like shit. Seems like they treated him like Metallica did it with Jason Newsted in AJFA era, but for 14 years in a row :D
I feel sorry for Mangini - he is a superb drummer and I know he will go on to even greater things.
Greater than DT? I don't think so
ADTOE, Astonoshing & (My Fav) DOT were fantastic albums. Definitely excited for the future of DT.
I think ADTOE had drum parts written by Portnoy, and recorded by Mangini...not sure though... I have not heard Distance Over Time, but Astonishing was good.
@@saaranshkulkarni2350 I should give DOT a listen, especially Untethered Angel, S2N, and Pale Blue Dot. Some might call it a safe album, but it can still knock you over.
@@saaranshkulkarni2350No. JP composed the music for ADTOE and programmed simple drum parts on MIDI along with it, and Mangini improved upon it after he joined. Portnoy didn't compose anything in ADTOE.
@@Revenant4k cool thanks! Couldn't remember.
@@saaranshkulkarni2350Also yeah, the astonishing is an incredible album. Just because it leaned more on the classical/operatic style (which lots of metal fans would find boring) doesn't mean it's objectively bad or boring, like its haters say it is.
It's sounds like nothing that DT has ever done before, and the album should've been commended more for that, not constantly being shit on by people who won't give it a chance to grow on them.
It really is just a well written and composed piece of music. I personally love how it deals with its distinct character themes and leitmotifs.
I became a fan as 6 degrees come out, my first album I got into was Scenes, and loved it. I feel as you put it, the Rudess/Portnoy era was the best, all those albums are epic. But my favourite album is actually Falling into Infinity (I know, someone’s gonna throw tomatoes at me). As for the Mangini albums, he’s great as a drummer, but I feel there was something missing with the writing. Glad Portnoy is back, let’s see if they can wow me like they did before, I’m hopeful
And portnoy also played with Adrenalin Mob...which was pretty good
I became a Dream Theater fan right around when MP left so I never had the chance to see him with DT live. While I fully respect and admire Mangini's work and work ethic during his 13 year stint with DT, I am SO excited for MP returning. The Mangini era of albums are fun listens but they sound like JP's material with sprinkles of everyone else's input. MP 's songwriting perfectly complemented and balanced out JP's during that 1999-2010 run of banger after banger album.
Really interesting point about MP being more in the know with what's new in the prog and metal scene. It certainly helps that his son is the same way. I loved the Austin Dreamsonic show this past summer and I would love to see Dreamsonic 24 bring on Periphery and Polyphia to help diversify the band's image, palette, and maybe even attract new fans.
I saw them in maybe 2003 in Boston and ironically, Mike Mangini (a Boston native) joined Mike Portnoy on stage for the drum solo.
I got into DT around the time Mike left too, but now that he's back, I have the chance to see my favorite DT lineup live which is a great feeling. My favorite concert I've been to was when I was DT in 2022, Mangini did a great job though, and was faithful to the Portnoy tracks, I'm sad to see him go, but man, I'm just so pumped that Portnoy's back.
Never visited your channel before but I really enjoyed your comical/sarcastic (and accurate) recap of the Portnoy/Dream Theater reunion. Personally, I absolutely LOVED this news!!! With all due respect to Mangini, Portnoy IS Dream Theater and I can't wait to see them live together again! Btw, I've met Mike Portnoy twice. Great guy
First of all, I'm pretty sure I remember hearing about the Mangini solo album a little while BEFORE the news of Portnoy rejoining DT. But I'm also quite sure that Mr. Mangini Has and WILL have PLENTY of other things to do. But I DO appreciate what he "did for us in our time of need," so I say we just "thank him for his service," and hope the things will now be getting back to normal. Well, normal for DREAM THEATER, anyway...!...
Yeah, Mangini started talking about his solo album in interviews as far back as 2 years ago.
I have a very niche guess as to where DT's sound is gonna converge to, now that MP is back (I could be completely wrong on this btw). I think Mike will try to incorporate elements from modern metalcore into DT's sound, and that may be because his son is in a metalcore band (Tallah). I'd like to believe that because of his son's involvement in metalcore, MP gets to listen to a lot of it, which I think he might try to bring into DT. Now, that does not mean Labire will be growling all of a sudden lmao, but I think we can expect a heavier side of DT (more chuggy riffs, possibly breakdowns, etc.). I personally think that would be a very interesting direction for DT! Again, I might be completely wrong.
I agree Mike's son is also the drummer for code orange now.
I bought a meet and greet with the band when they played at the Tabernacle in Atlanta back around 2003 ish. Meeting Portnoy and Petrucci was one of the coolest things ever and I have some great pics of me with the band. I am so excited for this news.
In my (maybe not so humble) opinion, they are creatively stuck for the last decade. But for me the biggest issue is the sound of the band, it just sounds very bland, especially with Petruccis sterile guitar tone, the way Rudess old synth sound and overly soloing approach. Myung is not being given enough sound space, and the drums sound computerised (Im not talking about Manginis playing, Im purely talking about the sound). They really need to hire a new, young and fresh producer with new ideas, because that role is not well suited for Petrucci.
I'm no hardcore fan, but I don't get why the reaction is so intense. I remember plenty of complaining before he left about them trying to sound like Metallica and Muse, bringing awful not-quite growling vocals in, and more or less overpowering the music with his insistence on everything having a gimmick to it. Dream Theater hadn't been classic 'Dream Theater' for a while, even then.
Are rotating setlists for shows you aren't going to all of really that important?
Thanks to Mike Mangini. 13 years of smart work with Dream Theater. Welcome Mike Portnoy back to the Dream Theater home. working back 40 years. I welcome Dream Theater's latest work. awesome. 😎👍
I wish Dimebag would rejoin Pantera that would be dope
#TooSoon
I'm glad Mike is back, but I'm not crying about it either. However about my favorite DT albums, i have some unpopular opinions... My favorites are Falling Into Infinity, Black Clouds, and Distance Over Time
I’ve loved the Mangini era, and “A View From the Top of the World” was one of my favorite DT albums, but I think you did a great job of summarizing what was so special about the Portnoy albums. Excited to hear what they do with him back in the fold!
VIEW is a very good album
Took the words right outta my mouth. ADTOE is my favorite record from them as well!
Man, MM will be sorely missed, it seemed like Mangini in DOT and A View gelled and grooved 500% more with the band, and i would've loved to hear one last album with him. The most humblest, funniest, jolliest, and nicest drummer that i know of 🙏
ADTOE and View are my absolute favorites from the entire catalog.
I liked Portnoy on Images and Awake, but after that it was the same thing over and over and over and over and over again.
Part of me think they'll regret the decision and invite Mangini back.
@@danlc95…for an anniversary show. There’s no way in hell they’re backtracking on a founding member (then again, I never would have thought they would bring MP as a member)
I bought ADTOE expecting something new but the production (namely the drums) were underwhelming and overall boring.
How wrong is it of me that I just had this image in my head of a Big Bang Theory-like scene where Portnoy comes up to the drum kit and says to Mangini, "You're in my spot?"
The perfect drummer would be a combination of Mangini's speed and precision together with Portnoy's groove and creativity. They should have a baby...
What’s wrong with his run with avenged sevenfold? :( I thought he killed it on that album.
I'm psyched that MP is back. I appreciate Mangini's talent and playing. He's a technical beast. He's going to land on his feet. He'll be fine.
As for the emotional bit, and "people crying on social media about people they've never met" - You're being a bit dismissive and uncharitable with that, I think.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you how incredibly powerful music is to many. There's an absolute emotional attachment to it. Music can move someone like little else. Memories are bound up in different songs. Songs can have special meaning to people, etc.
With that in mind, as you acknowledge, MP was a huge part of DT's sound and personality that many came to know and love. His absence in the band is evident just by listening to the last several albums without him. I'm definitely in the camp who feels their work without him was "good" but feels incomplete. Like having a crucial ingredient missing from an otherwise favorite meal. The missing ingredient was Portnoy not being involved in the writing and performing... and that became evident to me in listening to and watching his work in his other projects. The ingredient missing from DT's work was present in his other projects.
I feel the same way about Pink Floyd without Waters. Whatever you think about PF, with and/or without Waters, his fingerprint in their music with him is indelible. And it's front-and-center in his solo work.
People are reacting emotionally not because they "know the members". They're emotional because it means a return back to the DT they discovered and learned to love. It's hitting in that emotional part of them. For myself, I didn't cry at the news. I was, however, smiling an awful lot after seeing it. I haven't been excited about anything new from DT since ADToE. Last album I bought was the self-titled, though I have listened to the rest. I really feel like how deep this reunion goes is well expressed by Jordan Rudess. In his statement, he talks about how the magic that happens when they're together creating music goes beyond words. That says a LOT.
As for the whole "Mangini being robotic".. I can't speak for others, but for myself I agree - but not in a derogatory way, and not to say he's a lesser player. I mean it in the same sense that Neil Peart recognized the same rigidity in his own playing, which inspired him to seek out Freddie Gruber to re-learn his approach to the kit. Mike Mangini is an incredibly technical and precise player. I believe that precision comes at the cost of more rigid and, yes, robotic-sounding playing which, to me, is impressive technically, but not so enjoyable musically. Watch Portnoy playing stuff.. He's loose. He's relaxed. He's keeping time, he's playing complex stuff.. but it's organic. The result is the playing has more feel and groove, and in MP's words: "balls and chunk".
As much as it was a "never to be played again" song - There's a version of "The Best of Times" where it's Mike's Vocals instead of James. A 40th Anniversary Tour with Mangini guesting (amongst countless others) opens up the opportunity for "Frontman Portnoy" moment
Hell let's get JP Singing Wither live, too!
i still want derek sherinian back.
@@bloodlinefilms My dream is Derek Sherinian and Kevin Moore fuse dvz style into one entity, but I think the Kevin side would go off and become a film professor at a small commubity college in Alaska or something.
The best analysis on Portnoy coming back, and I've watched several videos on the news.
seeing any of the documentaries about the recording of their albums is clear how Portnoy was the main creative director and guided a lot of the song directions, happy for what they would create next
Still very shocked to hear this looking forward to their next album with Portnoy! ❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
I would love to see them push forward and innovate as they did in the "Rudess Era" of your chart, not some "member berry" stuff. It's not hard to guess that they will probably follow a Scenes from a Memory template, but I hope they make it sound more contemporary.
07:03 how? Why is 'no' not an option? That is strange since in that 'documentary' they made of the drummer selection, they themselves mentioned that MP asked to return to the band after some months and they had to deny because MM had already asked to be left from his job to be able to be with the band. Strange...maybe 'no' in 2023 is more difficult than back then.
Portnoy originally left because he wanted DT to go on hiatus for him to work on other projects, namely Avenged Sevenfold (at that moment in time). The DT guys rejected this and wanted to continue making albums and touring. After Avenged Sevenfold said they didn't want Portnoy to be a full member, he asked to come back to DT but they had already moved on with a far better drummer.
It was that mainly but MP and I believe Petrucci later said Mike felt they were all starting to stagnate a little in their writing and felt a break would help (not a break from music but a break from writing DT music)
Seeing how mangini was kind of locked down up until the latest album it does appear that MP was a little right in that regard.
There definitely was a falling out between him and Labrie though. They've made up since but from MPs "slips" in interviews you can tell he was a bit bitter at Labrie.
LTE3 was 109 on the US charts, while DT's latest album was 52. I wonder if this contributed
Very mixed on this. Mangini is a ridiculously capable drummer and amazing human being who truly understands people and was becoming more intertwined with DT and helping bring them to new heights in my opinion. Obviously I love their stuff with Portnoy so I'm sort of excited and wondering but... how did this happen? Is MP going to play the stuff Mangini came up with with the same level of precision? A lot of that stuff is on an entirely different level technique-wise. And they both have great feel so no need for that argument.
For all those who feel bad about Mangini, he had a dream job for a decade. I’m sure he’s quite content with what he got, even if he would have liked to have kept doing it lol ..there’s something special about these magical lineups and replacements should always honor them and step aside when asked. I can’t even imagine Arnel Pineda telling Steve Perry, “no, you can’t come back. It’s my band now.” 🤣🤣
So this begs the question. Who is going to be the new singer? Because we all have a pretty good idea who Mike had the biggest problem with. It makes me wonder if JLB has said he is either retiring or moving on to other things like a solo thing, opening the door for Portnoy to return. I’m just speculating here.
1:14 as someone who appreciates Dt but doesn't know Avenged Sevenfold, why that comment? Also, people love to say that LTE is just instrumental DT which is true, but LTE is not three members of DT, it is DT that is three members of LTE (Rudess was there before joining DT).
The Astonishing album sounds like a Rudess flavoured album with a lot of theatrical, classical piano styled playing. Songs felt very Broadway.
VFTTOTW seemed more rhythmically complex, which could only have come from Mangini, possibly Rudess.
However, my favourite albums are Dramatic Turns + VFTTOW with favourite songs all from the Mangini era, Illumination theory, PBDot, Alien, VFTTOTW and a bunch of others sprinkled within the Mangini era.
Sad to see they won’t explore the rhythmic element further. Portnoy will take it back to that classic sound and sense of rhythm, easy to count, move and rock to, but hey, life goes on.
Mangini was enjoying it, I was not! Welcome back, I enjoy everything you do Portnoy
Completely agree with this summation but I think your can shake things up in other ways, one being replacing labrie or even bringing in a second vocalist to give us a rest from his mature and strained vocals. Loved Theresa in scenes
I met Jordan Rudess last year his first show at the Ridgefield Play house in CT during a VIP session and he is the nicest dude, and incredibly talented still at his age. He did not look 65 at the time and he still doesn't.
My first exposure to Dream Theater was through the Black Clouds and Silver Linings album. I broke my arm in a car accident. I heard A Nightmare to Remember and the song just spoke to me and the instrumentation was out of this world. I got a friend to buy me the album and learned who Mike Portnoy is and he became my favorite drummer. I wasn't a DT fan for long but was crushed when he left. I actually accepted the fact Portnoy wouldn't return to DT but got to see him live on the Petrucci Terminal Velocity tour last year and said this is incredible but what if he actually went back to DT. A year later here we are. I wasn't one of those who trashed Mike Mangini just because I'm a Portnoy fan. Mangini put in incredible work for DT with Illumination Theory being my favorite with MM on drums. I wish Mangini the best and will check out Invisible Signs in couple of weeks. I'm happy MP is home and look forward to this "final incarnation of Dream Theater"
I saw DT with Mangini and it wasn't the same. Something was missing. The records suffered too. MP co-wrote the music and he wrote heavier riffs, this was missing from DT's records. I'm really looking forward to the new music and tour.
I don't remember where the interview is but I think it's from the last year or so. Mangini is asked about his contributions to Dream Theater. He said in the interview that the band had been really slow to bring him into the writing process. He had contributed some but wanted to do more. He didn't seem to quite understand why the band wasn't using him more and seemed a little upset about it when the interviewer pushed for more answers. I guess only Petrucci or Rudess could answer why Mangini wasn't brought in to help write more.
Mangini is a beast behind the kit and he seems like a stand up type of guy. I'm sure there were some discussions early on about this possibility and if Mangini wasn't given more power in the band then he could only assume he was an at-will drummer. I'm guessing this wasn't completely shocking to Mr. Mangini. All the best to everyone.
I'm so hyped that he's back! I never thought it would happen again, but I'm so glad I was wrong!
I read from their official biography that portnoy and labrie would always get into it and portnoy tried to have labrie replaced
I hope Portnoy brings back some edge. They're all older now so its different, but I want them to get their balls out so to speak. Had enough airy symphonic stuff.