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There was a video on youtube discussing the SIG safety issue and looking into the corresponding legal cases. One expert apparently blamed the Metal Injection Molding they use on a lot of parts, including safety critical parts like the sear. In case the surface is not perfect (e.g. due to subcontracted parts with lower quality standards), the trigger might not have perfect contact on the sear. With movement / vibrations on the gun, this might lead to the release of the fully cocked striker under certain conditions. I am not an engineer, but this does sound plausible to me.
"In 2019, Cohen and two other executives of the German-owned Sig Sauer were accused of conspiring to cover up the final destination of a shipment of pistols. German prosecutors say that between 2009 and 2011, the company manufactured nearly 40,000 guns in its factory in Germany, then transferred the weapons to its sister-entity in New Hampshire before shipping them on to Colombia. "
Yeah, the German government did everything they could to destroy Sig Germany. Using this as a legitimate argument is like saying any one of the bogus election interference cases against Trump is legit…
All my stuff is M&P, but I don't have blind loyalty to the brand. If M&Ps had this many safety concerns like the 320 I'd switch out all my M&P stuff for another system.
The commenter that says “it’s a fully cocked striker…blah blah blah blah….” Yeah. And? So is the Walther PDP. So is the Canik. But somehow, we don’t hear about the problem 320’s have had about discharges without shooter input from those guns. News flash. A fully cocked striker is NOT the problem. Maybe the commenter never heard of the striker block. Yes, the 320 has one of those as well. But the design of it and how it is defeated and how easily it’s defeated without a full trigger pull just might be part of the problem.
I agree with you It doesn't take much movement to disengage that striker block either. I saw a video explaining how it works and that it is a very bad idea to put an adjustable trigger in the p320 then adjust all the take up out of it so you are at the wall at the beginning of the trigger pull. When it is adjusted like that it has already started the movement of the striker block. I believe it was the Sig Mechanic that put out a video explaining this in great detail. I still like the P320, but I am concerned the more I've learned about it. I put the Agency Arms trigger with the dingus in mine over a year ago. To add fuel to the fire I watched another video the other day where an officer was getting out of his vehicle at a traffic stop and the gun went off in the holster. His hands were in view. It makes me believe that the pressure on the gun while in the holster combined with a twisting movement can set the gun off. I dunno maybe it is time to get a G47 with a Holosun SCS.
I went to a training course with a serpa holster. I had no clue about them and they legit were sketched. One dude tried to find a different holster for me to use lol
I'd disagree - I too thought M&Ps were better. Hated on Glocks. Got a brand new Pro series. The hinged trigger design wasn't the best. Swapped it for an Apex and it was much better. Also got a lightly used G17 for a deal. Was amazed how lights out accurate the G17 was and now with a Timney it's amazing. Prefer the simplicity of the Glock design even if the ergos and grip is better on the M&P. I'd say they are on par. With the Glock getting a slight edge for its simplicity
@@laskalives Why do we all have to fanboi under one make? Enjoy them all for what they are. I have guns from every manufacturer (except I no longer own any modern Sigs), and each of them have great things. You don't have to get behind one manufacturer like it's your favorite NFL team.
@@floorpizza8074 no one's fan boying, it's all just preference. I've owned and shot everything from Glocks to Sigs to CZ's to Staccatos and the M&P's are objectively better than Glocks. Where do you want me to start; comparison of sights, optic mounting solutions, texture or adjustability out of the box? And that's just factory vs factory. @mps9649 Both the M&P and the Glock are simple in design and in service so that argument is kind of a bad one. As far as which one shoots better, you installed a Timney in the G17 which literally took it from a partially cocked striker and turned it into a precocked striker just like what the M&P runs lol
I too tried to get onto the Sig train early on. I had a couple different P320s including one with a manual safety. This was however during the time when the voluntary upgrade was taking place. I could never trust the pistol enough to carry with a round in the chamber. I ended up selling all of my Sigs and went to all Glock. If you really think about it, Glock provides everything you need and nothing you don't. There really is no reason to look anywhere else for concealed carry or duty.
I did the 'return to Glock' thing also. This is my third time doing so over the last 20 years. But this time it feels really final, as I've tried everything else.
Man, I knew the secret sauce like ten years ago. It's Glock 35, 40 cal... but you drop in a match grade 9mm Conversion barrel, resulting in a heavy barrel because you're going down in caliber but maintaining the same outer diameter of the barrel. Making an enhanced lower recoil Glock 34.
@@chrisragone8785 I started in the 90's and worked with a lot of people that started in the 70's and many still carried revolvers. It was very common for agencies to have a semi auto approved list vs. an agency issue semi auto. Sig 220's and 229's were some of the more popular semi-autos. In the late 90's and early 2000's Glocks; specifically Glock 22's emerged as one of the most common LE pistol. There was the occasional story of an AD before field stripping - but I don't remember hearing stories of guns going off in holsters like the 320. At the same time the internet wasn't like it is now where information travels so fast. For a long time Glock was the -go to- issued gun for LE. Besides being good, they were inexpensive. Then came the M&P, then the 320. Now everyone has a very good inexpensive duty 9mm. Even HK makes an inexpensive one. I don't know what percentage of LE agencies Glock had back in the early 2000's which was probably their highest but now it's said to be 65% But where are the reports? If this was about the users, and Glock has more guns and more agencies - shouldn't they have reports of this kind of thing too? And have more of them?
@@chrisragone8785 I started in the 90's and worked with a lot of people that started in the 70's and many still carried revolvers. It was very common for agencies to have a semi auto approved list vs. an agency issue semi auto. Sig 220's and 229's were some of the more popular semi-autos. In the late 90's and early 2000's Glocks; specifically Glock 22's emerged as one of the most common LE pistol. There was the occasional story of an AD before field stripping - but I don't remember hearing stories of guns going off in holsters like the 320. At the same time the internet wasn't like it is now where information travels so fast. For a long time Glock was the go to issued gun for LE. Besides being good, they were inexpensive. Then came the M&P, then the 320. Now everyone has a very good inexpensive duty 9mm. Even HK makes an inexpensive one. I don't know what percentage of LE agencies Glock had back in the early 2000's which was probably their highest but now it's said to be 65% But where are the reports? If this was about the users, and Glock has more guns and more agencies - shouldn't they have reports of this kind of thing too? And have more of them?
@@chrisragone8785 I started in the 90's and worked with a lot of people that started in the 70's and many still carried revolvers. It was very common for agencies to have a semi auto approved list vs. an agency issue semi auto. Sig 220's and 229's were some of the more popular semi-autos. In the late 90's and early 2000's Glocks; specifically Glock 22's emerged as one of the most common LE pistol. There was the occasional story of an AD before field stripping - but I don't remember hearing stories of guns going off in holsters like the 320. At the same time the internet wasn't like it is now where information travels so fast. For a long time Glock was the go to issued gun for LE. Besides being good, they were inexpensive. Then came the M&P, then the 320. Now everyone has a very good inexpensive duty 9mm. Even HK makes an inexpensive one. I don't know what percentage of LE agencies Glock had back in the early 2000's which was probably their highest but now it's said to be 65% But where are the reports? If this was about the users, and Glock has more guns and more agencies - shouldn't they have reports of this kind of thing too? And have more of them?
@@zen-Tii Yeah 3x 3in and 3x XLs. If a gun is a carry gun for me, then I buy 3 copies of it. One is for carry. One is for training/practice, and a third for good measure. I'm weird like that.
Idiots find a way - the Beretta APX (another competitor in the military trial) has a decocking button for a feld strip, yet almost every Guntuber and Redditor pulls the trigger and then complains about how difficult the takedown lever is to operate. Most seasoned gun owners take it as a badge of pride that they don't have to read the Owners Manual for a new gun.
At the end of the day, Sig ruined whatever reputation they had with the fumbles of the 320 and the MCX, no matter what people choose to believe. Sig still laughing their way to the bank with their military contract. Excited for the goobersgroup to take a dump on sig once they swap their shill contract for HiPoint in a few years.
So, I've seen a couple people mention the precocked striker on the 320s, and that's really not a concern unless a bunch of other shit has gone wrong in your design. M&Ps, Walthers, and the H&K VP9 all have precocked strikers, and as far as I know pretty excellent track records.
Glock sells a trigger option that will precock the striker making it vastly better to shoot and more accurate. Never had an issue with it. The 320 suffers from engineering issues combined with material issues and quality control issues. None of those are something you want to have in any sort of sequence.
I really wanted to want a P320, but something always felt off, and I never picked one up. If I was interested in the chassis system, I'd pick up an Echelon, and I still might. However, a P320 is still just unappealing to me. I'll stick with my Glocks.
Just got my year model l 2014 320's back from Sig and they did the voluntary upgrade on them. They changed the trigger on the FCU and milled the slides. Going to range test them next week. No holsters will be used. After that I'm going to replace the trigger with an APEX. Just want add more redundancy for gun safety with what little safety the 320 has....
Was a 320 guy but went back to my roots pre sig, pre Glock and I’m back on the beretta train. But if anyone asks me for advice on what handgun to buy as their first it’s always a Glock suggestion
For the first comment that you read, I’m sorry nobody is wishing me went back to Glock after having Atlas or staccato. I’m sorry just doesn’t happen. And if it does it’s because you need money and sold the 2011s
Went to my local shop to buy a G45. They had a showcase that was nothing but sig and they tried their best to sell me one. I didn't say anything but I was very tempted to start giving my opinion on sig.
The P320 is just a meh gun. Sig needed something cheap that fit the army criteria better and at a lower cost than Glock, and they needed it fast. So they took the mediocre P250 design and put a striker in there. But with too little safety features and the high bore axis of the P250. It's a crude "be ready by monday" design and they try harder and harder to fix design flaws that are unfortunately inherent and could only be solved by a new, clean sheet design. The Springfield Echelon (made by Croatian HS Produkt) did it much better. More simple FCU, more and better safeties for the striker fired design, lower and lighter slide,...
P365 is actually an ok gun I personally would never buy a 320 because of its past and how it was made, they turned a DAO into a striker pistol. And the DAO it started as was already a nightmare of a gun.
I sold my p320’s not because of accidental discharge but because I had twice debris get in the firing pin lock mechanism and the gun would not fire. Taking it apart and cleaning the fire pin freed it up to work correctly. Fired 2000 rounds and it happened again. Looking at the mechanics of it compared to other striker fired guns I just did not like its design.
Hey Ben fan of your training videos especially about grip. I have the p320 and i like it. Like you've said in other videos to make it work for me I've had to do alot of aftermarket parts and kind of putting it together myself. Which i dont mind really. Now in terms of all the ND and AD, eventhough i like it and it has worked for me 100% of the time, im not blind either to not believe and acknowledge what others have experienced. I know you may disagree.
Lol. Glock perfection, after changing the barrel, the sights,the trigger,the trigger bar, install a minus disconector, plunger spring, extended mag released, new extractor, striker spring, stippling the grip and install a maxwell, I proudly paid $2000 for the best $500 gun I can buy. Now I can join the blockers 3 yrd snipers club
I have been an Sig fan for decades. I have no illusions that the P320 doesn’t have serious issues. I also feel like Sig has lost its way. It has more models than Jelly Belly has flavors. That said, you clearly have some serious Sig hate going on. The gun community loves to eat its young. I am old enough to remember the Glock KABOOM controversy. It’s resolved and Inhope Sig will resolve the issues with the P320. It’s a revolutionary design and would be a great addition to the community once it’s perfected.
The only way to have a good P320 is to start with an FCU, fix that, then not put any other Sig parts into the gun. I hate it, because I adore my P229 and want to get a P226 at some point.
I'm curious if the people who comment on how bad the p320 is really understand how it works and its safety mechanism. I don't comment on SIG's after-sales service, but for these accidents, if it's really due to mechanical reasons or design problems, then these problems will be easy to reproduce, such as the early p320 drop issue. But in reality, there are always some unexpected situations that cannot be reproduced. Can this be simply explained as a problem with the gun? I have purchased 3 p320s used by police officers. The guns were not in good condition at first. Their previous owners seemed to never clean and maintain their guns. The carbon deposits and unburned gunpowder particles inside the guns were like glued to the FCU, and the magazines were also dirty. After I thoroughly cleaned and reassembled them, the feel and accuracy of the p320 are much better than my Glock. I personally think that some police officers are not good gun users. Using guns is just their job, just like a bad car mechanic who doesn't treat his wrench well. Various accidents may not be impossible. A few days ago, there was a video on RUclips that listed many problems with the p320, most of which were links to news reports. I went to look at one of the p320 accident reports in the Marine Corps, and the result was very disappointing. It just said that the gun was fired in the holster when the safety was on. This is very interesting. The manual safety of the p320 only limits the movement of the trigger, not the release of the firing pin, but the p320 also has a firing pin safety. Theoretically, it cannot be fired. The Marine Corps report only described that the gun was maintained and inspected normally, and described the situation at the time of the incident. There was no further technical analysis or display of the gun's condition. This has become an unsolved case. I hope that people who understand the situation can analyze it more thoroughly. I don't want to say that the p320 is a bad gun, and I don't want to say that it is definitely safe, but based on my understanding of it, I can't explain these accidents in principle.
100%. The case with the Marine M18 is curious, one of the few (the only?) cases where a manual safety model has gone off. If the safety was really on and the mechanism somehow allowed itself to still be fired, this implies it's not the being trigger pulled that's making the gun fire, rather the striker assembly letting itself go. Checks out with some of the cases we've seen with police and civilians. Hate to say but the way things are going it isn't gonna be long before the next one happens, God forbid no one actually gets shot.
The P320 became the reason for people to see the deception of the firearms industry. The vast majority of striker-fired pistols are single-action, and none of them, except for the military version of the P320 and custom-ordered M&Ps, have an external safety. If I’m not mistaken, today’s 1911s have a firing pin safety, and since they also have a grip safety, what do they lack compared to striker-fired pistols that requires a manual safety? The Springfield XD is a prime example. It has a single-action trigger, a firing pin safety, and a grip safety. In what way does it surpass a 1911 in terms of safety and doesn’t need a manual safety? Unless you consider its trigger design to be a safety feature! Think about it, aside from Glock, which other striker-fired pistol is double-action only? Competition pushed companies to attack Glock where it received the worst reviews-on the trigger. To achieve this, instead of making their pistols DAO, they made them SA. And here’s the result.
I recreated the P365 video of the guy flipping the 365 & the P320 holster one too. I got both to do it with the left side trigger bar of the FCU not being seated properly when installing it in a new grip module. I love Sig, & the people at Sig, I also think the meme about one cop pointing out to another cop a perp had a Sig & then yelling" its a Sig DONT DROP IT" funny as hell. I think the FCU was brilliant to address the commie laws about pistol purchases. I still have & like mine, but i am more cautious. it is what it is & i'll keep buying them.
What P365 video are you referring to? Only P320 videos I’m aware of. And how is it possible to improperly seat the FCU into the grip frame and install the rear pin?
I mean, Beretta 92 FS/M9 series have take down levers too and never had a reputation of NDing when disassembling or perceived as not drop safe over their 40 years of existence now. Am I missing something?
Detective Mike Lowrey carried a sig 226 x5 until the end of the newest movie. Then in the last few minutes picks up a Glock to finish the bad guy. If that’s not hidden meaning I’ll be a monkeys uncle.
Hey Ben, I have an Echelon and I have not put very many rounds through it, so I won't say too much about it, except for this: don't really like the fully ambi mag release. Seems pretty easy to not quite index your primary hand to the gun on the draw and hit that mag release in the process. I suspect you are aware of this since you sell the Springer Precision custom mag release at the pro shop, lol. You need to get your people to contact Springer and get some more made!
Ive never bought a Sig that i wasn't elated with.. the P365 series is revolutionary.. Ive never owned a 320, and the only reason id even get one is for a Flux Raider, but now that they have a p365 version there's no need.. Next im getting a 226.. Id like one of those Reserves, those things are amazing looking
The only people coping here are the ones who cannot explain a simple question (including Ben) Why, with so many p320s going off randomly, can not a single person recreate the problem in a controlled environment? Put one that fails in same holster, bash it against a wall and shake it about. It should go off. Damning evidence, right? Why cant we do this. Why have we not seen a video of this issue being replicated? Now Ben+company can stop crying about sig 320s and end the debate once and for all with this simple experiment. Additionally, people with issues with the p320 now start crying about all sig products for some reason? It's almost like you purchased another product and want to justify why you didnt buy a p365.
We have to understand that Smith and Wesson is so boring. That's what this is all about. Ben would rather risk it all, than shoot such a boring gun. The faster we can become this, the faster USPSA changes.
Larry Vickers did a video with Forgotten Weapons where he said he’d been told by people inside the MHS trials that Sig is selling the P320 to the army AT COST. If true, how they beat Glock suddenly makes a lot of sense.
If so SIG is just copying exactly what Glock did in the 90’s to sell guns to LE. They undercut SIG, S&W, Beretta etc for LE agency contracts by not only taking their old pistols in trade even up but straight out bribery. Read about the Atlanta strip club visits 😂
I sold my G19 for a P320 and as a casual shooter I liked it more. It came with a lot of features that the Glock didn’t for an extra $100. But I wish I just kept the Glock because I’m afraid to carry my 365 and my P320. Basically feel like a I don’t have a handgun. When I get new ones, Glock or Walther?
The 365 is fine. And I own a p320 and have shot a couple hundred rounds through it if not more and have never had a problem. But I’m not shooting thousands of round and carrying it every day I just go to the range. When I do shoot it though I shoot a decent amount of rounds. Carry it in a holster too at the range and never had a problem. It’s for a manual safety. Never dropped it too hard though. Pretty sure grand thumb did several videos testing it too.
I had a 365 and sold it for cheaper than I should have and wish I had kept it. Have a g43 though so I didn’t think I needed two compacts. I carry a g2c though. I trust it to work and don’t mind if something happens to it. But hey I’m not an expert.
Depends on your grip and aftermarket cost/availability preference. The PDP felt amazing, My G19 is so perfect people get bored of it, like a Camry that wins all the offroad races in town.
@@ldeez4375 I’ve had my P320 for about 2 years and I have around 3000ish rounds through it. Last time I was at the range I put 300 rounds through it. And I shoot cheap ammo. Personally, I’ve never had an issue. It’s never malfunctioned. It’s just the stuff I see on the internet that makes me sketched out from it and the more I learn about Sig I am starting to hate the company lol.
@@KimchiArmsright, Its track record of being die hard reliable is the appeal. But the PDP SD compact pro is looking super nice to me. It’s either the PDP SD pro compact or the Glock 19x mos. I’m not really into modding the gun, I’d rather just keep it stock.
Ben do you think the G44 is a good training tool? Better than dry fire? I can go to the range and squeeze off 600 rounds of 22LR from a gun that matches my G19-G49 for way, way cheaper than 9mm. 4-8cpr instead of 25-33cpr. I have had zero reliability problems and I’ve sent over 1000rd of CCI minimag and 500rd of Aguila Super Extra through it in the last month. Thoughts?
I used to think sig was a tragedy, now I realize, it's a comedy
Traumedy
Hey Ben, Sig did indeed cram a striker into a DAO gun to make the 320. It was developed from the Sig 250
take a look at a P250 and the 320s inbred genetic defect heritage becomes clear
I only know this because Hop recently posted an excellent video about the 250
Sad because the 250 was great but they turned it into mid if not bad striker pistol
That must be the Sig innovation I keep hearing about
@@aaronporebski9502 I knew this because the frames at my local Gun store has sig frames labeled,"Sig 320/250" and looked it up.
There was a video on youtube discussing the SIG safety issue and looking into the corresponding legal cases.
One expert apparently blamed the Metal Injection Molding they use on a lot of parts, including safety critical parts like the sear.
In case the surface is not perfect (e.g. due to subcontracted parts with lower quality standards), the trigger might not have perfect contact on the sear. With movement / vibrations on the gun, this might lead to the release of the fully cocked striker under certain conditions.
I am not an engineer, but this does sound plausible to me.
What’s up my early siggers 😂
The hard ER slips through like butter 😂
Sigger is our word. You Glock guys can use sigga.
Wassup my sigga 👊😎
_SigPro, please!_
Just when I suspect my comments mentioning siggers were getting shadow deleted... it seems to be OK?
"In 2019, Cohen and two other executives of the German-owned Sig Sauer were accused of conspiring to cover up the final destination of a shipment of pistols. German prosecutors say that between 2009 and 2011, the company manufactured nearly 40,000 guns in its factory in Germany, then transferred the weapons to its sister-entity in New Hampshire before shipping them on to Colombia. "
Yeah, the German government did everything they could to destroy Sig Germany. Using this as a legitimate argument is like saying any one of the bogus election interference cases against Trump is legit…
Lowkey based actually
sad they didn't stay in the US
@@Frank-bc8ggNo doubt, I believe those were 2022’s… that’s one piece I’d be happy to go full-on Sigger for
He plead guilty in a case involving the export of arms from German to a conflict zone, which is illegal under German law.
based
The german government does not give a crap
All my stuff is M&P, but I don't have blind loyalty to the brand. If M&Ps had this many safety concerns like the 320 I'd switch out all my M&P stuff for another system.
The commenter that says “it’s a fully cocked striker…blah blah blah blah….” Yeah. And? So is the Walther PDP. So is the Canik. But somehow, we don’t hear about the problem 320’s have had about discharges without shooter input from those guns. News flash. A fully cocked striker is NOT the problem. Maybe the commenter never heard of the striker block. Yes, the 320 has one of those as well. But the design of it and how it is defeated and how easily it’s defeated without a full trigger pull just might be part of the problem.
Exactly. I haven’t heard a single example of either of those guns firing uncommanded
@@S1deshowRob be careful, you’ll trigger all of the Sig sycophants. 😂
M&Ps have a fully cocked striker too I think?
I think almost every modern striker-fire pistol that didn't straight up copy Glock has a striker that's 95%+ cocked.
I agree with you It doesn't take much movement to disengage that striker block either. I saw a video explaining how it works and that it is a very bad idea to put an adjustable trigger in the p320 then adjust all the take up out of it so you are at the wall at the beginning of the trigger pull. When it is adjusted like that it has already started the movement of the striker block. I believe it was the Sig Mechanic that put out a video explaining this in great detail. I still like the P320, but I am concerned the more I've learned about it. I put the Agency Arms trigger with the dingus in mine over a year ago. To add fuel to the fire I watched another video the other day where an officer was getting out of his vehicle at a traffic stop and the gun went off in the holster. His hands were in view. It makes me believe that the pressure on the gun while in the holster combined with a twisting movement can set the gun off. I dunno maybe it is time to get a G47 with a Holosun SCS.
Imagine the reaction if you showed up at one of those Cop ranges with a Sig P320 in a SERPA holster
😏
I went to a training course with a serpa holster. I had no clue about them and they legit were sketched. One dude tried to find a different holster for me to use lol
😂
Heck, the FLETC ranges restricted SERPA holsters around 12 years ago.
Simultaneous redshirt aneurism and heart attack.
By the way thank you Ben I love how blunt and sincere you are
If a gun goes off when its being disassembled then thats 100% user error.. Why would u disassemble a gun thats loaded?
Wanna see how the M&P compares to the Glock, Ben spends money so we don’t have to make mistakes 😅
M&P > Glonk any day of the week.
I'd disagree - I too thought M&Ps were better. Hated on Glocks. Got a brand new Pro series. The hinged trigger design wasn't the best. Swapped it for an Apex and it was much better. Also got a lightly used G17 for a deal. Was amazed how lights out accurate the G17 was and now with a Timney it's amazing. Prefer the simplicity of the Glock design even if the ergos and grip is better on the M&P.
I'd say they are on par. With the Glock getting a slight edge for its simplicity
@@laskalives Why do we all have to fanboi under one make? Enjoy them all for what they are. I have guns from every manufacturer (except I no longer own any modern Sigs), and each of them have great things.
You don't have to get behind one manufacturer like it's your favorite NFL team.
@@floorpizza8074 no one's fan boying, it's all just preference. I've owned and shot everything from Glocks to Sigs to CZ's to Staccatos and the M&P's are objectively better than Glocks. Where do you want me to start; comparison of sights, optic mounting solutions, texture or adjustability out of the box? And that's just factory vs factory.
@mps9649 Both the M&P and the Glock are simple in design and in service so that argument is kind of a bad one. As far as which one shoots better, you installed a Timney in the G17 which literally took it from a partially cocked striker and turned it into a precocked striker just like what the M&P runs lol
@@mps9649”simplicity” 👍🏼
I too tried to get onto the Sig train early on. I had a couple different P320s including one with a manual safety. This was however during the time when the voluntary upgrade was taking place. I could never trust the pistol enough to carry with a round in the chamber. I ended up selling all of my Sigs and went to all Glock. If you really think about it, Glock provides everything you need and nothing you don't. There really is no reason to look anywhere else for concealed carry or duty.
Same lol, After I got it back from "voluntary upgrade" I sold out of P320 platform.
For duty Walther PDP perhaps better ergonomics and trigger, at least out of box?
I like living on the edge..im going Sig
In Pinellas County the Sheriff bought 320s but had not issued new holsters for them.
Sigs gonna sig
Commenting to help the algorithm. You need more than 51k subs!
I did the 'return to Glock' thing also. This is my third time doing so over the last 20 years. But this time it feels really final, as I've tried everything else.
Man, I knew the secret sauce like ten years ago. It's Glock 35, 40 cal... but you drop in a match grade 9mm Conversion barrel, resulting in a heavy barrel because you're going down in caliber but maintaining the same outer diameter of the barrel. Making an enhanced lower recoil Glock 34.
That sounds insane. Must try. I do like .40 though.
I don’t think we are ready for a beautiful bearded Ben but boy am I here for it
Why is only Sig susceptible to people picking the wrong ammo wrong holster and AD'ing into their thigh?
I remember plenty of that with Glocks when they were becoming popular with LE.
@@chrisragone8785 I started in the 90's and worked with a lot of people that started in the 70's and many still carried revolvers. It was very common for agencies to have a semi auto approved list vs. an agency issue semi auto. Sig 220's and 229's were some of the more popular semi-autos. In the late 90's and early 2000's Glocks; specifically Glock 22's emerged as one of the most common LE pistol. There was the occasional story of an AD before field stripping - but I don't remember hearing stories of guns going off in holsters like the 320. At the same time the internet wasn't like it is now where information travels so fast. For a long time Glock was the -go to- issued gun for LE. Besides being good, they were inexpensive. Then came the M&P, then the 320. Now everyone has a very good inexpensive duty 9mm. Even HK makes an inexpensive one. I don't know what percentage of LE agencies Glock had back in the early 2000's which was probably their highest but now it's said to be 65% But where are the reports? If this was about the users, and Glock has more guns and more agencies - shouldn't they have reports of this kind of thing too? And have more of them?
@@chrisragone8785 they don’t like to admit to this.
@@chrisragone8785 I started in the 90's and worked with a lot of people that started in the 70's and many still carried revolvers. It was very common for agencies to have a semi auto approved list vs. an agency issue semi auto. Sig 220's and 229's were some of the more popular semi-autos. In the late 90's and early 2000's Glocks; specifically Glock 22's emerged as one of the most common LE pistol. There was the occasional story of an AD before field stripping - but I don't remember hearing stories of guns going off in holsters like the 320. At the same time the internet wasn't like it is now where information travels so fast. For a long time Glock was the go to issued gun for LE. Besides being good, they were inexpensive. Then came the M&P, then the 320. Now everyone has a very good inexpensive duty 9mm. Even HK makes an inexpensive one. I don't know what percentage of LE agencies Glock had back in the early 2000's which was probably their highest but now it's said to be 65% But where are the reports? If this was about the users, and Glock has more guns and more agencies - shouldn't they have reports of this kind of thing too? And have more of them?
@@chrisragone8785 I started in the 90's and worked with a lot of people that started in the 70's and many still carried revolvers. It was very common for agencies to have a semi auto approved list vs. an agency issue semi auto. Sig 220's and 229's were some of the more popular semi-autos. In the late 90's and early 2000's Glocks; specifically Glock 22's emerged as one of the most common LE pistol. There was the occasional story of an AD before field stripping - but I don't remember hearing stories of guns going off in holsters like the 320. At the same time the internet wasn't like it is now where information travels so fast. For a long time Glock was the go to issued gun for LE. Besides being good, they were inexpensive. Then came the M&P, then the 320. Now everyone has a very good inexpensive duty 9mm. Even HK makes an inexpensive one. I don't know what percentage of LE agencies Glock had back in the early 2000's which was probably their highest but now it's said to be 65% But where are the reports? If this was about the users, and Glock has more guns and more agencies - shouldn't they have reports of this kind of thing too? And have more of them?
You ever do a review on that Staccato match ammo you were going to get?
Watching this after I just picked up my 6th P365.
Jeezus! Six?
@@zen-Tii Yeah 3x 3in and 3x XLs. If a gun is a carry gun for me, then I buy 3 copies of it. One is for carry. One is for training/practice, and a third for good measure. I'm weird like that.
@@TDub777not a bad idea, I like having doubles.
@@TDub777That’s smart and what I do also.
Idiots find a way - the Beretta APX (another competitor in the military trial) has a decocking button for a feld strip, yet almost every Guntuber and Redditor pulls the trigger and then complains about how difficult the takedown lever is to operate. Most seasoned gun owners take it as a badge of pride that they don't have to read the Owners Manual for a new gun.
At the end of the day, Sig ruined whatever reputation they had with the fumbles of the 320 and the MCX, no matter what people choose to believe.
Sig still laughing their way to the bank with their military contract.
Excited for the goobersgroup to take a dump on sig once they swap their shill contract for HiPoint in a few years.
So, I've seen a couple people mention the precocked striker on the 320s, and that's really not a concern unless a bunch of other shit has gone wrong in your design. M&Ps, Walthers, and the H&K VP9 all have precocked strikers, and as far as I know pretty excellent track records.
Glock sells a trigger option that will precock the striker making it vastly better to shoot and more accurate. Never had an issue with it. The 320 suffers from engineering issues combined with material issues and quality control issues. None of those are something you want to have in any sort of sequence.
I really wanted to want a P320, but something always felt off, and I never picked one up. If I was interested in the chassis system, I'd pick up an Echelon, and I still might. However, a P320 is still just unappealing to me. I'll stick with my Glocks.
I have not owned a Sig optic where I haven't had to reach out to Sig CS for replacement or repair.
Just got my year model l 2014 320's back from Sig and they did the voluntary upgrade on them. They changed the trigger on the FCU and milled the slides. Going to range test them next week. No holsters will be used. After that I'm going to replace the trigger with an APEX. Just want add more redundancy for gun safety with what little safety the 320 has....
Oh the Drama! Don't like your P320, sell it what ever. To me my P320 always was a safe queen. Thanks Ben for the video. Stay safe dude.
No love for the APX!
@@nvkulk I love my APXs! But you're right - there's not a lot of love for them from most people, which is a shame.
Was a 320 guy but went back to my roots pre sig, pre Glock and I’m back on the beretta train. But if anyone asks me for advice on what handgun to buy as their first it’s always a Glock suggestion
Glocks have horrible trigger though compared to most comparable options
My 320 has worked flawlessly for the past 3 years
For the first comment that you read, I’m sorry nobody is wishing me went back to Glock after having Atlas or staccato. I’m sorry just doesn’t happen. And if it does it’s because you need money and sold the 2011s
Went to my local shop to buy a G45. They had a showcase that was nothing but sig and they tried their best to sell me one. I didn't say anything but I was very tempted to start giving my opinion on sig.
Did you get the g45? I'm thinking about picking one up myself.
@@JB22636 No I did not. They didn't have an mos.
The P320 is just a meh gun. Sig needed something cheap that fit the army criteria better and at a lower cost than Glock, and they needed it fast.
So they took the mediocre P250 design and put a striker in there. But with too little safety features and the high bore axis of the P250. It's a crude "be ready by monday" design and they try harder and harder to fix design flaws that are unfortunately inherent and could only be solved by a new, clean sheet design.
The Springfield Echelon (made by Croatian HS Produkt) did it much better. More simple FCU, more and better safeties for the striker fired design, lower and lighter slide,...
P365 is actually an ok gun I personally would never buy a 320 because of its past and how it was made, they turned a DAO into a striker pistol. And the DAO it started as was already a nightmare of a gun.
I sold my p320’s not because of accidental discharge but because I had twice debris get in the firing pin lock mechanism and the gun would not fire. Taking it apart and cleaning the fire pin freed it up to work correctly. Fired 2000 rounds and it happened again. Looking at the mechanics of it compared to other striker fired guns I just did not like its design.
Hey Ben fan of your training videos especially about grip. I have the p320 and i like it. Like you've said in other videos to make it work for me I've had to do alot of aftermarket parts and kind of putting it together myself. Which i dont mind really. Now in terms of all the ND and AD, eventhough i like it and it has worked for me 100% of the time, im not blind either to not believe and acknowledge what others have experienced. I know you may disagree.
Never owned one. You mentioned the echelon. I have 1500 rounds through and it is good. Smoother than my 47
6:40 That is exactly what they did. It's not some industry secret, Ben.
Lol. Glock perfection, after changing the barrel, the sights,the trigger,the trigger bar, install a minus disconector, plunger spring, extended mag released, new extractor, striker spring, stippling the grip and install a maxwell, I proudly paid $2000 for the best $500 gun I can buy. Now I can join the blockers 3 yrd snipers club
Nonsense, the barrel is good to go. Changing out the trigger is the only thing you might need.
This anti Glock stuff is Internet regurgitated BS.
Ben here shows all that needs to be done is an Apex trigger kit and grip tape.
Literally anything else is safer/ better than sig like glock, Walter, Beretta. But what i know
Ive never heard of any of sigs metal framed varients having problems. Even the newer ones.
I'd definitely like to see what you think of the spring field echelon
I have been an Sig fan for decades. I have no illusions that the P320 doesn’t have serious issues.
I also feel like Sig has lost its way. It has more models than Jelly Belly has flavors.
That said, you clearly have some serious Sig hate going on. The gun community loves to eat its young.
I am old enough to remember the Glock KABOOM controversy. It’s resolved and Inhope Sig will resolve the issues with the P320. It’s a revolutionary design and would be a great addition to the community once it’s perfected.
There was no Glock kaboom controversy.
@@jessegpresley
ruclips.net/video/uQHfRWRVzYQ/видео.htmlsi=taY-i-04uQ_gnkeF
@@jessegpresley
ruclips.net/video/Tyy8taQ1jTk/видео.htmlsi=bUxbdWGNtn6lZkwb
@@jessegpresley
ruclips.net/user/shortsXsZ_vuyNivM?si=1SCPQ_m93c32ihSI
@@jessegpresley
ruclips.net/video/KeQEpWqo0mw/видео.htmlsi=Fr1SQ2dciJvlBE1x
Dudes spend $800 on a pistol and symp for it when it cheats on you 😂
The only way to have a good P320 is to start with an FCU, fix that, then not put any other Sig parts into the gun.
I hate it, because I adore my P229 and want to get a P226 at some point.
I'm curious if the people who comment on how bad the p320 is really understand how it works and its safety mechanism. I don't comment on SIG's after-sales service, but for these accidents, if it's really due to mechanical reasons or design problems, then these problems will be easy to reproduce, such as the early p320 drop issue. But in reality, there are always some unexpected situations that cannot be reproduced. Can this be simply explained as a problem with the gun? I have purchased 3 p320s used by police officers. The guns were not in good condition at first. Their previous owners seemed to never clean and maintain their guns. The carbon deposits and unburned gunpowder particles inside the guns were like glued to the FCU, and the magazines were also dirty. After I thoroughly cleaned and reassembled them, the feel and accuracy of the p320 are much better than my Glock. I personally think that some police officers are not good gun users. Using guns is just their job, just like a bad car mechanic who doesn't treat his wrench well. Various accidents may not be impossible. A few days ago, there was a video on RUclips that listed many problems with the p320, most of which were links to news reports. I went to look at one of the p320 accident reports in the Marine Corps, and the result was very disappointing. It just said that the gun was fired in the holster when the safety was on. This is very interesting. The manual safety of the p320 only limits the movement of the trigger, not the release of the firing pin, but the p320 also has a firing pin safety. Theoretically, it cannot be fired. The Marine Corps report only described that the gun was maintained and inspected normally, and described the situation at the time of the incident. There was no further technical analysis or display of the gun's condition. This has become an unsolved case. I hope that people who understand the situation can analyze it more thoroughly. I don't want to say that the p320 is a bad gun, and I don't want to say that it is definitely safe, but based on my understanding of it, I can't explain these accidents in principle.
100%. The case with the Marine M18 is curious, one of the few (the only?) cases where a manual safety model has gone off. If the safety was really on and the mechanism somehow allowed itself to still be fired, this implies it's not the being trigger pulled that's making the gun fire, rather the striker assembly letting itself go. Checks out with some of the cases we've seen with police and civilians.
Hate to say but the way things are going it isn't gonna be long before the next one happens, God forbid no one actually gets shot.
The P320 became the reason for people to see the deception of the firearms industry. The vast majority of striker-fired pistols are single-action, and none of them, except for the military version of the P320 and custom-ordered M&Ps, have an external safety. If I’m not mistaken, today’s 1911s have a firing pin safety, and since they also have a grip safety, what do they lack compared to striker-fired pistols that requires a manual safety? The Springfield XD is a prime example. It has a single-action trigger, a firing pin safety, and a grip safety. In what way does it surpass a 1911 in terms of safety and doesn’t need a manual safety? Unless you consider its trigger design to be a safety feature! Think about it, aside from Glock, which other striker-fired pistol is double-action only? Competition pushed companies to attack Glock where it received the worst reviews-on the trigger. To achieve this, instead of making their pistols DAO, they made them SA. And here’s the result.
I recreated the P365 video of the guy flipping the 365 & the P320 holster one too. I got both to do it with the left side trigger bar of the FCU not being seated properly when installing it in a new grip module. I love Sig, & the people at Sig, I also think the meme about one cop pointing out to another cop a perp had a Sig & then yelling" its a Sig DONT DROP IT" funny as hell. I think the FCU was brilliant to address the commie laws about pistol purchases. I still have & like mine, but i am more cautious. it is what it is & i'll keep buying them.
What P365 video are you referring to? Only P320 videos I’m aware of. And how is it possible to improperly seat the FCU into the grip frame and install the rear pin?
I mean, Beretta 92 FS/M9 series have take down levers too and never had a reputation of NDing when disassembling or perceived as not drop safe over their 40 years of existence now. Am I missing something?
Yea.the 92 is a good gun.
Detective Mike Lowrey carried a sig 226 x5 until the end of the newest movie. Then in the last few minutes picks up a Glock to finish the bad guy. If that’s not hidden meaning I’ll be a monkeys uncle.
He carried Glocks in the second movie. He had a gun journey too.
@@interestedparty497 I’m aware. Saw all the movies. Those Glocks from the Haitian shootout scene are rare now. Factory NiBX (nickel boron) slides.😉
Hey Ben, I have an Echelon and I have not put very many rounds through it, so I won't say too much about it, except for this: don't really like the fully ambi mag release. Seems pretty easy to not quite index your primary hand to the gun on the draw and hit that mag release in the process.
I suspect you are aware of this since you sell the Springer Precision custom mag release at the pro shop, lol. You need to get your people to contact Springer and get some more made!
Ive never bought a Sig that i wasn't elated with.. the P365 series is revolutionary.. Ive never owned a 320, and the only reason id even get one is for a Flux Raider, but now that they have a p365 version there's no need.. Next im getting a 226.. Id like one of those Reserves, those things are amazing looking
The only people coping here are the ones who cannot explain a simple question (including Ben)
Why, with so many p320s going off randomly, can not a single person recreate the problem in a controlled environment? Put one that fails in same holster, bash it against a wall and shake it about. It should go off. Damning evidence, right? Why cant we do this. Why have we not seen a video of this issue being replicated?
Now Ben+company can stop crying about sig 320s and end the debate once and for all with this simple experiment.
Additionally, people with issues with the p320 now start crying about all sig products for some reason? It's almost like you purchased another product and want to justify why you didnt buy a p365.
Glock. Period. Why play games. ?? I've heard instructor's tell their students not to bring any 320 into a class ......
We have to understand that Smith and Wesson is so boring. That's what this is all about. Ben would rather risk it all, than shoot such a boring gun. The faster we can become this, the faster USPSA changes.
My siggas, the cope is real
I bought a pdp.
So....has SIG made you an offer to join the Team yet? 😅
Sig is basically Boeing.
imagine using a p320 lmao
ben should never shave again
Nice to know Sig shooters are confirmed gay
Is that a motel 6?
I wish y'all would stop beating this dead horse.
It's not dead, they're still going off and we've not seen the last of it yet
🇺🇸
Blame Cohen
Larry Vickers did a video with Forgotten Weapons where he said he’d been told by people inside the MHS trials that Sig is selling the P320 to the army AT COST.
If true, how they beat Glock suddenly makes a lot of sense.
If so SIG is just copying exactly what Glock did in the 90’s to sell guns to LE. They undercut SIG, S&W, Beretta etc for LE agency contracts by not only taking their old pistols in trade even up but straight out bribery. Read about the Atlanta strip club visits 😂
I sold my G19 for a P320 and as a casual shooter I liked it more. It came with a lot of features that the Glock didn’t for an extra $100. But I wish I just kept the Glock because I’m afraid to carry my 365 and my P320. Basically feel like a I don’t have a handgun. When I get new ones, Glock or Walther?
The 365 is fine. And I own a p320 and have shot a couple hundred rounds through it if not more and have never had a problem. But I’m not shooting thousands of round and carrying it every day I just go to the range. When I do shoot it though I shoot a decent amount of rounds. Carry it in a holster too at the range and never had a problem. It’s for a manual safety. Never dropped it too hard though. Pretty sure grand thumb did several videos testing it too.
I had a 365 and sold it for cheaper than I should have and wish I had kept it. Have a g43 though so I didn’t think I needed two compacts. I carry a g2c though. I trust it to work and don’t mind if something happens to it. But hey I’m not an expert.
Depends on your grip and aftermarket cost/availability preference. The PDP felt amazing, My G19 is so perfect people get bored of it, like a Camry that wins all the offroad races in town.
@@ldeez4375 I’ve had my P320 for about 2 years and I have around 3000ish rounds through it. Last time I was at the range I put 300 rounds through it. And I shoot cheap ammo. Personally, I’ve never had an issue. It’s never malfunctioned. It’s just the stuff I see on the internet that makes me sketched out from it and the more I learn about Sig I am starting to hate the company lol.
@@KimchiArmsright, Its track record of being die hard reliable is the appeal. But the PDP SD compact pro is looking super nice to me. It’s either the PDP SD pro compact or the Glock 19x mos. I’m not really into modding the gun, I’d rather just keep it stock.
Ben do you think the G44 is a good training tool? Better than dry fire?
I can go to the range and squeeze off 600 rounds of 22LR from a gun that matches my G19-G49 for way, way cheaper than 9mm. 4-8cpr instead of 25-33cpr.
I have had zero reliability problems and I’ve sent over 1000rd of CCI minimag and 500rd of Aguila Super Extra through it in the last month.
Thoughts?