This 1 Sim-Racing MISTAKE was DESTROYING my Braking!
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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Thanks for watching!@!@
And I hope it goes without saying that this is just subjective some people may love a rock hard brake pedal, and if so, that's A1, what ever works for you, but this is my mistake and how I managed to correct it, happy hunting guys 🧊
I have the same V3 inverted and I added the softest elastomers. I like to drive truck in American Truck Sim and kart race in GT7. I know odd combo, but it has worked very well. I have a bad foot, so I did not go as hard as you. The longer lever of the inverted pedal changes the physics drastically compared to the regular V3.
YES. 100%. I had incredibly stiff load cell pedals. I had an opportunity to get professional driver coaching at the LA Porsche Experience Center (911 GT3). I was surprised by how much travel the real cars pedal had compared to my sim. After a bunch of laps the coach told me that I was sacrificing a few tenth per corner because I wasn't trailing and holding the final 2%-3% of brake pressure up to apex. After a bunch of laps it clicked and my lap times improved dramatically. At home I practiced what I learned on SIM. I realized that MY PEDALS WERE TOO STIFF TO ACCURATLY HOLD SMALL AMOUNDS OF BRAKE PRESSURE.... The difference between 2% and 4% brake pressure when trailing matter dramatically. I switched my pedal setup to feel like a real car and now im much faster and consistent.
There are several things that made me quicker for sure. But the most important thing was investing in a rig instead of racing at a desk. In the end it all adds up, I guess. A decent rig, a decent DD wheel and decent load cell pedals.
yep me too
my old rig flexed a ton. it was not made for DD nor load cell pedal. my new rig has no flex, and it improved everything!
For me... 3 things, 1-using more of the outside of the track for corner entry and exit, 2-looking further ahead, i always looked right in front of me so reacted to the next phase of whatever later, and 3-prepare for a corner and not react to a corner, this resulted in better racing lines!
Oooof number 3 is sweet, prepare, don't react... before and after, good food for thought my friend!
Brake earlier, in a straight line. Release pressure as you slow (you’ll lose downforce and braking power) settle the car before turn in and keep a tiny bit of pressure until before the apex. This rotates the car right up to the apex. Start accelerating just before the apex in one smooth movement for best exit.
Thank you i am a world champion now
This is so weird... I hit a plateau at the end of last year and couldnt figure out why I was making certain mistakes still. I took a 4 month break, and I ended up building/fabricating my own rig and lightened the hell out of the brakes, DD wheel button box, and a set of the V3's as well, and BAM! Gained 1000 irating within the next week, i can feel the difference now even when adjusting brake bias.
Dont just settle off of some youtuber! EXPERIMENT! The point of being a driver is to find those tiny, tidious little things that make you, a tenth faster around sector 1.
I went to World of Racing in Pasadena, CA that have high end SIM setups. It was my first try and they had their brakes setup too hard. I could not trail brake and know how because I have been doing track days in real cars for 20 years. So my 1st rig has the brake setup so they have travel like my track car and I can trail brake on it.
The amount this spoke specifically to me of starting with the Fanatec V3 pedals, using two green springs (I didn't cut in half one though which I think could aid me), and being 2.5k iRating was crazy. To be honest though, I don't have stiff pedals because I thought that was good for iRacing, and I definitely don't use 100% brake pressure which is about 180 pounds on the V3's because it's good either, I do both because I want to race Formula for real. Last week was actually really tough for me with how hard I had to push the brakes on Super Formula Lights Montreal, but I was glad to build up the endurance for it. Do you use any program to look at your brake telemetry? I wouldn't want a graph on my screen probably, but I'd like to be able to look at my brake graph in my replays. Just looking at my recordings, my brake doesn't look incredibly staircasey except when I'm purposely trying to keep the same amount of brake pressure, but I'd definitely like to look at the graphs and compare those to others for a better visual.
Thanks!!!! I came to the same conclusion after believing the stiffness narrative. Abd yes, trail braking and control of the travel
i used an inner spring from a dual valve spring (for an engine). i like it better than elastomers by far. plenty of travel.
Fanatec CSL here…
Yes!!! I had 3 load cell pedals with elastoners, last one Heusinkveld. In years the only improvement was my limping after long sessions. Tired of it, I did research and found a discussion about if elastomers are more "real" but springs give you better control. Ignored both statements, but made me think...I finished buying Simagic P1000 and using springs instead of elastomers (also you can mix springs to create that progressive feel) No more pain!!!!! And what about lap times? what a improvement! Not only faster, overall consistent times and after two hours I can keep pressing brake like in first lap. Not sure when the idea of "kicking the wall" in a brake was born, but is wrong. About realism, I never drove a gt3 or f1 car, but springs looks more similar to the cars I drove than the eslastomers.
Are you using hydraulic brake too? Also, I'm guessing the shift to springs only means it completely removed any hysteresis affect on your brake input (e.g. with elastomers, you immediately apply and hold a pressure to produces an 80% result but over the next half a second the input falls all the way down to say 70-75%)?
@@DrR1pper I'm using hydraulic, but not sure it makes anything special. As didn't use none hydraulic I'm not sure of the diference, but In my mind thought hydraulic would be something else. And yes, there is no hysteresis, 80% is 80% as far as you don't change the preassure. But what is more important is the trailbreaking, as wothout being so stiff you control better that movement/pressure on the brake as the leg don't get tired.
Mate, once again a simple honest video. I run TLC-M pedals and was luckily able to test a set of SIMAGIC pedals before purchasing. I totally understand the meaning of pressure vs pedal travel. I am glad I didn't buy because my average rig wouldn't handle the flex and my ankle/foot would have suffered also. Not saying they weren't bad, I was just too used to my budget load cells with pedal travel. I have since bought a brake mod to fit the SIMAGIC brake haptics and this is brilliant. Keep the channel going brother.
Ah thanks for the lovely comment bro, Glad your gelling well with your pedals :)
this makes so much sense! congrats on figuring it out brother
This is great. This might be my issue as well. Since I switched from my Heusinkveld Sprint to the VNM Lite Pedals I just lost it completely in iRacing....my confidence, hardly anny victory, plateau..... I am just lost sometimes. Will give this a try tomorrow (Y)
LOL. This was actually it I guess. I have done the exact same thing as you did on the pedals. This resulted in much better trail braking and more rotation into the corner. In fact: I finally had some podiums again and (after a very, very long time) a victory at F3 Watkins Glen!
I can't thank you enough for making this video. I've been sim racing for almost 3 years but only recently (about 3 months ago) upgraded to a load cell brake. It seems as though we took similar approaches to setting up our brakes. I too went with a very stiff setup and it seemed fine. Firm as hell and no travel, but I felt fast. But then you released this video and something you said really got me thinking. When you spoke of your mid corner speed being a weakness and I thought, "me too." And then you talked about staircase braking instead of trail braking. I checked my telemetry and guess what...me too. Long story long, I made my pedal slightly softer with a fair bit of travel. You know something, it worked dammit. It shaved nearly a second off my time on most tracks. My mid corner speed is up and more importantly I feel like I have far more control of the car on corner entry. I feel in control of the rotation so much more now. Sincerely, thank you. You just helped me level up. Great news for me, bad news for everyone else though.
Aww he'll yeah! This made my day my friend! And the added bonus, it's easier on the leg/ankle too! A super bonus to stop strain!!!
100% my experience as well... great video, thanks
I fell for the same trap, with Heusinkveld Sprint I immediately fitted the stiffest elastometers as that was the concencus online.
I never liked it from the beginning, tried it for a few weeks.
Now went back to medium-soft springs, I am both faster and more comfortable.
Using around 40kg force
It's wild seeing how many people did the same thing lol, glad it works better for ya now! Thanks for watching!
How in the holy f are you supposed to trail break with 2mm of travel. It makes sense for F1 cars because the time your foot takes to travel 2 or 3 inches to reach full brake pressure compared to a few millimetres is the difference of tens of metres of track.
Yeah I get you man, sounds weird, with loadcells, they measure pressure, so travel is pretty irrelevant when it comes to inputs, but for comfortability and consistency, small travel makes it hard, at least for me
Not even sure if it's correct to say that it makes sense in F1. Here's Lando Norris onboard footage of his brake pedals. Look at the amount of pedal travel. ruclips.net/video/JOpCjAo5dKU/видео.html
Had the V3's but never set to the highest pressure, and even then they were very inconsistent. A year ago i went with the VRS pedals, and WOW very consistent. VRS does not use elastomers but instead a single spring with a strength that you choose,and again i do not use the hardest pressure maybe 60% .
Now part 2 of this is:
BRAKE PROFILES( software).
I have 3 profiles LIGHT-MEDIUM-FULL.
You can not crawl into your rig and mechanically adjust your pedals to the car you are driving each time so you change the profile instead to match the car.
For example in iRacing, (which is all I do), the Porshe 992 CUP and the Ferrari GT3 will be very difficult to control using only one Brake setup hence the Profile change.
So proper Brake setup including Profiles, enabled me to be more consistent that results in being FASTER !!
In iRacing load into Centrapedal skid pad course in any of your favorite cars and learn the behavior for different cars at different brake profiles and you will be a believer.
Are you me.
🤣🤣🤌
I made this same discovery just in the last week or two. My pedals were set for 50% travel = 100% brake pressure. I recently changed to 100% travel = 100% braking - and now I have more precise braking control throughout the corner, and I am going through corners on the Nordschleife in 1 gear higher than before (meaning I’m faster through the corners). My other solution had to do with a brake set that moved. I found an inexpensive soIution: I use a heavy box of floor tiles to hold down the front lip of my pedal set so that the pedal set stays in place even under hard braking. It’s cheap. It’s not pretty, but it works and I am now a much happier sim racer. 😊
I was 1 year into believing harder is better. Until i came across a video where a pro real race car driver is setting up his sim rig and wanted the builder to built it exactly how his real race car is and how much travel it has. Then i tell myself that why dont i try that as well. And yes, now the whole experience is better and it made me faster as well since now i can regulate my brake and trail braking is must easier to execute.
What took me from 600 to 1.8k in the past few weeks was me realizing that my goal isn't to beat the guy Infront of me but rather the guy Infront of him and so on. I started to look at the bigger picture. Also getting a DD wheel definitely helped somewhere in there.
I never understood people who play with 2mm or 1cm break pedal travel?! I tried it and it was absurd... I am way quicker and have way more control with more travel, like 5-10cm and with soft-medium pedal stiffness.
Wow. This video is most likely going to help me. I find trail breaking difficult and this might be what I need. Thank you.
It wasn't a light bulb. More of a gradual realization. But it happened after getting a proper rig. I drove a desk for 3 years. Made it as stiff as I could but my chair was crap. I hovered around 1.8k in both road and oval.
Got a rig and it wasn't an immediate change but everything started to feel easier. Now I'm 2.3-2.4k in road and oval. Not a huge jump but it was def a hump I needed to get over.
Now I realize it's because I could now just concentrate on my inputs instead of trying to keep my chair stable.
Have V3's and ran supper heavy elastomers. It was evident that trail braking as not possible. Did a bunch of YT research and decided to try softening up the pedal. Step in the right direction. I since converted to a spring insert and the feedback at 50% and less pressure was amazing. I can carry trail braking down to the last 10% will complete control. I swapped the elastomers with a 40x14mm spring. There are different strengths. I opted for the Green spring, with the Tan being the heaviest. The green would be similar to the stock elastomer pressures while the tan increases to a red/green combination in the elastomers.
One day before the armagedon, ALL sim races will understand that breaking is a mix of travel and pressure. Don’t believe it? Pay very attention on how you break your bike. Stop believing on “stiffness lies”.
I did this exact thing today before watching this. Huge improvement 7:04
The same thing happened with me. I upgraded my g29 pedals with an MVH Studios load cell brake mod, and they added their stiff progressive spring. I wasn't able to achieve the braking I was wanting, so I switch the spring itself back to the g29 spring, and now I have more control with trail braking. And I was able to get the fastest lap on the garage 61 website at North Wilkesboro with the arca car by just over a .1
I did the exact same thing with my v3 pedals hard elastomers about 3 years ago. Eventually I too got wise and softened them (still same pedals) although it's possible (likely) they're still too hard. Definitely easier to fine-tune the pressure when a little softer
Thanks. I’m a noob and when the fanatec load cell arrived and I tried pushing against it; I knew there was no way this was going to be effective or realistic. Installed two blue springs in place of the elastomers and I think it still may need more lightening/travel.
Ive been simming for 4 yrs started on t150 had a t300 last year with t3pa pedals that ive added better springs and used a better conical brake mod, ive been wary of upgrading loadcell as i tried it really tight on my mod and realised i was doing same thing letting go too quick but there was no middle ground had to make more travel, i just added sponge in the gap between,
1 huge thing for me was turning thr FFB down. For months i thought more is better. So i had my wheel at the max in game and in the software for months.
It was very hard to move the wheel but i thought i needed to get stronger. Until 3 or 4 months ago. When I turned it down, and gain 7 tenths on my first flying lap. Still trying to get used to it
Too much mechanical force (your leg) is difficult to release smoothly, same as FF for a wheel, how high is too much.
Interestingly, I recall of the story I heard a good while back now about how the flight stick in the early prototypes of the F16 which works by measuring the force applied by pilot, was completely static and immovable and they had to be redesign it to accommodate something like an inch or two of travel. Interesting, right?
Wow. That's wild!!@
People who say you need a stiff brake pedal probably don't have a driving licence let alone know what a brake feels like in a race car.
Interesting. i have the Heusinkveld sprints, and went, like most people, for a rather stiff setup. Gonna try a softer setup with more travel as soon as I have time.
How did it go?
F1 driver Lando Norris brake pedal travel onboard: ruclips.net/video/JOpCjAo5dKU/видео.html
I wonder where you've seen good drivers saying "travel is bad".
I'm trying to remember just here and there, Like I knew F1 cars had like a 120kg press for the brakes, (obv force helps with thst tho,) and a few other youtubers have few minimal travel, it's my interpretation off all this that led me down the wrong rabbit hole lol
I have a team mate that runs his Heusinkveld Sprints at around 25kg. None of us can figure out why but he's gone from 1.8k IR to just under 5k IR since joining us and buying those pedals.
Stiffness in the brake is great if you can control it when trailing the brake off. If not, lower the stiffness. You'll be quicker almost instantly.
"...could* figure out..." because you have now. :P
Biggest realization I had was to steer less and be smoother overall
Absolutely love this and can't agree more.
Great video mate
Thanks for the nice comment Bro!
when i upgraded from my SRP lite pedals i got a set from simsonn , it came with a 200kg load cell 4 springs and 2 other sets of elastomers (light and heavy ) but just driving with the " medium " set that was already installed i did get quicker so i just stuck with it and learned the pedals instead
How you liking the simsonn thinking with getting a set but not sure if I shiuld get with hydraulics
I'll let you know when I find it! 😁 Seriuously thouhg, my biggest improvement came when I switched from a G25 pedal and installed the Ricmotech load cell. That was a game changer for me! DD wheel and now Sim Jack pedals (after having used V3s for a while as well) are giving more feedback during the race that apparently I need. I have a theory that the great sim racers are able to perform with minimal input, primarily visual, and some auditory clues (scrubbing tires) and use that to be amazing on track. Others, like myself, need several more inputs just to be abaove average. So for me, the haptics, in addition to the visual and auditory, are improving my skills, and with that comes confidence on the track! Thanks for sharing your story! 👍
It's funny how I found I was having and issue. Was I felt less smooth with braking then I did when I first started! I felt like I failed around corners. Then I noticed why am I stopping so much why amm I going into corners so slow now. Figured out my legs were pushing through the braking force and I was going full 100% lockup. We'll I was using way to light of brake pressure I did have to raise mine but I tested the strength I found a nice medium and realized I have it perfect when I don't need to braking my leg when doing so then I found the spot where I I can put enough pressure and be consistent. Now I'm back to braking smoothly.as you said the better you got the slower you felt through corners right? That's what I noticed I thought something was wrong with my pedals or my rig I was like why was I better before? Come to find out as we get better we do get worse in other areas due to certain things. So I've found the v2 elites are perfect for me sey to 30% brake force. Nothing crazy a little give at first and perfection.
Peoppe always forget about the brake force setting! It doesn't need to be srt at 100% on softeare. Then even with heavy pedlas you can be lighter with it. Now mine is almost by feel just muscle memory with how hard I press. I have enough room I can press harder to get more braking or softer for less.
So yeah brake force in software was actually my trick. The elite v2s have more give then the v3s from fanatec also. The spring they added really helped with the progression at first.
Test it out witj your new brakes 😉. Go to the brske force srtting either in game or in software. Adjust that to like 50% instead of 100% and thank me later. Then you have full control dont need to kill yourslef and will have a balance where you can give it kore or less for that perfecr amount of control. Me 30% im not the biggest guy you are a bigger guy then me so 50% wiuld be perfect. Probably even with your new set.
I was using a very stiff pedal too until I had Achilles tendonitis. Now I am using a lighter brake pedal and I am not slower.
I am using the softest elastomers for my Heusinkveld Ultimate + and 26kg force and i only use socks.
I've only recently migrated from Xbox Forza racing to a PC with a Fanatec setup. In the last two months of AC racing, the thing I keep having to make myself do is ... relax; not gripping on to the steering wheel like I'm holding on for my life! Yes, it's all very immersive, but if I crash injury/death ain't going to happen 😊 If your tense things just don't flow.
me too. with a three pedal setup the brake one was extremely stiff and i said screw it and bound the clutch pedal to brake instead. i agree i now feel like i can control the brakes so much better.
Just discovered this myself yesterday. Unbelievable how long I have been running the wrong setup
what an insane thought process glad you snapped out of it hahahahah
@nololol if you would have tried it you would have understood
Brake pedals in gt3 cars for eg are super stiff, but you have the g forces to assist.
Learning how to trail brake properly really opened my eyes to how cars behave when you do it right and the time you can gain
Great Vid. Went through the exact same issue!!!
On my way to 6k with the G25 pedal
sure, you can do it. but thats not how a real race car feels.