7:20 Firefly doesn’t care at all for crit actually. Somewhere around 2-3% of her final damage scales with crit. She is hybrid scaling tho as you say with the ATK conversion. Base ATK is factored in making On the Fall of an Aeon a pretty decent substitute for her signature, most calcs I’ve seen put it on par with or above Indellible Promise. Unfortunately Robin’s ATK boost doesn’t count, unless they change it last minute, but most other forms of ATK buffs do.
Yeah looking back that was a poor choice of words. I should've instead said that you could build her via normal damage and break damage. I wasn't at all trying to imply you HAD to build crit on her but I can see how it would be interpreted that way.
the star rail cycle: 1. hoyo releases a new meta defining unit with niche playstyle 2. hoyo makes moc that caters to niche playstyle 3. new playstyle becomes the meta wash rinse repeat
@@Alastor-x I still use Seele... Still depends on your play style and investment. I have 3 Hypercarry teams, 1 FUA in my account and those are still killing MoC 12 so...
@@Alastor-x in genshin it is more about the DPS check, if your character doesn't do this amount of damage they can't clear the content, in HSR it's more depending on moc buff that can make even weaker characters shine and incentives team building
HSR is now in the stage of diversifying team archetypes. In 1.x HSR was releasing generalist units (Fu Xuan, Huohuo, Ruan Mei, etc). Now the game is introducing new mechanics and building on niches we never knew even existed. There are currently four main team archetypes in the game: 1. Hypercarry (Seele, DHIL, Jingliu, Acheron) - consists of one DPS, called the hypercarry. Every support is catered to boost the hypercarry’s damage. Examples of hypercarry supports include Bronya, Sparkle, and Tingyun, who are mainly single target Harmony characters. 2. DoT (Kafka, Black Swan) - consists of two or three DoT units, may have one teamwide buffer (usually Ruan Mei). These teams utilize applying status effects on the enemy that cause them to take massive damage on what should have been their turn. Important examples include Kafka who can instantly detonate all DoTs currently on the enemy. Because DoTs are generally Nihility units, they can go hand-in-hand with Acheron to boost the Emanator’s damage output. 3. Follow-Up (Clara, Topaz, Yunli, Dr. Ratio, Jade) - these units incentivize attacking outside of their turns, generally by upgrading their talents. Counterattacks are considered follow-up attacks because they occur outside of that unit’s turn. 4. (Super) Break (Boothill, Firefly, Gallagher, HMC, Xueyi, Ruan Mei) - a new archetype with the introduction of Firefly, this archetype incentivizes breaking the enemy as fast as possible to whale on it while it’s down and can’t do anything. These characters are highly compromised if the enemy is Weakness Protected (can’t be broken). When we get new units, we can expect them to build on these niches and expand each archetype. The meta often fluctuates along these archetypes, so the dominant team archetype will change after a while. However, generalist supports (Ruan Mei, Fu Xuan, and Huohuo, for example) are likely to NOT be powercrept any time soon, which makes them higher priority pulls than the current “meta” DPS. Who knows? Maybe the DPS you invested in today may become obsolete tomorrow.
Break teams are gonna go on the rise. Trust. Weve seen how powerful Boothill and Firefly are, and considering HSR being prone to powercreep, its very possible we will see the break meta form and overtake Edit: I think the next hsr vid should be on the 4 horsemen of harmony (Bronya, Ruan Mei, Sparkle and Robin) and how they make the support class super competitive, despite there being more support slots in a team. Could talk about each of their strengths and how they overshadow most other supports.
I would switch Bronya with HMC. Sparkle took over Bronya's position in hypercarry teams. HMC on the other hand, while they might be niche, that said niche would not be able to work without them, making them more valuable.
@@XuanBachTrinh-of3pb If Jiaoqiu reduces enemy def like the rumors say, then Break teams would still benefit from him. He might replace Gallagher in BiS Break teams depending on how strong his def shred and healing are.
Okay but that same problem occurs with dot teams. We can't go on the theoretical because if dot comes up against a mass cleansing unit the it's just as far up shit creek as the break team. All units and teams have inherent weaknesses. That's why you have to work around them. And have teams built for other scenarios.
And that's why I like this game, I never feel like I have one team comp that can "do everything" - I'm encouraged to use several. If it was like Genshin, and we could just brute-force everything, it wouldn't be quite as rewarding when we finally beat that tough boss we've spent ten tries on.
@otashu9176 talents and uptime. The members of the FUA team need to either trigger each other, or in Clara's case, get attacked to FUA. If your characters get stunned or dazed by an enemy's debuff, or someone gets KO'd, then your team can be rendered limp quickly
@@angeldiaz762 this also can be applied for other team not just FUA team. In reality this new super break night be the best teams due to how universal RM can be play and weakness implants by both Boothill and Firefly
This is actually a smart and calculated game mechanic to shift the meta by making the trailblazer a key component in making what is broken, ‘broken’ - in the next meta whenever trailblazer gets their next form it’ll most likely powercreep harmony trailblazer, making you WANT to use the new form and moving people away from firefly, who is completely dependant on harmony trailblazer and encourage you to pull for new characters with whatever the next trailblazer form synergizes with. While firefly is completely broken right now, you basically have to count her as TWO characters because she’s borderline awful without harmony mc.. then you probably want ruan mei in there too, leaving only one slot likely for your sustain (unless you’re in zero cycle territory, which means it doesn’t really matter since you’re in whale territory). Firefly is actually pigeon-holed into very limited options and it’s pretty obvious she will fall off if new supports don’t come out that will make her more flexible… The question from here is will they release another character that will keep firefly relevant without harmony MC, or will they just leave her in the dust as the meta changes? Leaving firefly in the dust would be “as expected of hoyo/gacha” perception, while keeping firefly relevant in some form in 3.0+ will show more competent/nuanced game developers (hoping for the latter)… Curious and interested to see how hoyo manages this. I don’t think it’s a coincidence at all that they borderline made shipping mc+firefly canon, it’s likely so when the meta shifts they have more reason let firefly stay where she is in the meta and have players move on with new meta characters.
this will only hold true if the devs were going the route of making superbreak exclusive to harmony trailblazer, which is the original premise everyone had when firefly's v1 beta launched. everyone was expecting superbreak to be harmony tbs "gimmick" that is never shared to anyone else, like the multi type ult of destruction and the taunt of preservation. then they reworked the break set to specifically buff superbreak, gave firefly her own superbreak, and even made multiple blessings in divergent universe provide superbreak. this implies that superbreak will not be an exclusive mechanic, but instead will be a new damage channel similar to dots. i find it very difficult to believe they will simply *never* make another superbreak enabler, esp when there could be so many more creative ways to have a character provide it, for example a nihility who makes a target with their debuff take an instance of superbreak, or an action advancer like bronya or sparkle that give the target superbreak for x turns. trailblazer powercreep aside, it also just kinda makes sense to have at least one more superbreak enabler, so that you have the capability to either run them with hmc for big funny damage, or split them between two sides and have both be superbreak teams. granted, it probably wont be anytime soon, i mean take a look at dot teams, we've yet to even so much as begin to hear rumors about any new dot detonators to powercreep/diversify dot from just kafka, but i do think its inevitable regardless.
Who knows? Firefly might actually turn out to be Ayaka 2.0 in this game where she would be really broken in the few patches and then slowly drop when new units that doesn’t buff her get released
I think what I like most about the multiple teams angle Star Rail is going for means while powercreep will happen eventually, it's going to be paced in such a way where you won't feel the need to pull on every banner. So for break characters you can comfortably get Sam and Boothill, and then skip a few banners if you feel like those banners don't do anything for your team. I quite like it, and I hope that's the direction they're going
This, to be honest it sorta feels like they're spreading the meta thin over multiple team archetypes? While gamewide meta is still being disrupted by new chars like Acheron or Boothill, game's still really playable without them and the clear-cut lines between teams make it easy to know who not to pull for for your team. Makes choosing easier for mfs like me who're spread too thin already in farming n resources
This is exactly what I was saying, some weirdo tiktokker was complaining about powercreep but it is my belief that while Firefly could potentially be better than Acheron, Acheron herself doesn't have her best supports yet and both of them don't necessarily powercreep Kafka teams since their specialization is a different one. You could theoretically argue that it powercreeps in bigger numbers but sometimes bigger numbers isn't really everything.
@@KalleDemos666true, but then again, the powercreep is, in the end, fairly plain to see. Blade, a character that used to be insanely strong, now struggles to match current dps levels. Whilst he has his own benefits such as sustainability, it doesn’t matter much when his own output isn’t great. And also, yes, it is still powercreep if units are revealed later that synergise well if theyre 5*. If you have to pull a 5* for that unit to be as good as another, they are simply not as strong. Blade’s best teammates as of now are fuxuan, lynx and bronya/sparkle. 3 of his ideal supports are 5* units. Acheron’s best teammates absolutely demolish how good blade’s are. Yes, you can’t typically run harmony with acheron. The thing is, when you have 2 nihility characters both defence shredding, harmony isn’t really needed by that point. Don’t get me wrong, i love blade, he’s the only 5* i have the lc of (besides dr ratio, but that was essentially the same as pulling for dr ratio himself, which i would have done regardless.) and i WISH he was as strong as the current dps characters. But to face facts, he simply can’t compare to them. Even kafka, a character whose banner was RIGHT after his, was already stronger than him from the beginning. And she’s only gotten stronger. Jing yuan saw his comeback in the form of topaz, sparkle, and robin. Seele saw hers in the form of sparkle. Hell, even yanqing could have had a comeback due to adventurine were it not for his horrific scalings. Blade received his comeback in the form of fu xuan… and that was it. The closest to an improvement in recent time was robin, and even then, she’s far from his ideal support. Blade is a character whos teams should have been ridiculously flexible, mostly due to the fact that you could ENTIRELY FORGO an abundance or preservation unit. The first examples of double bronya sparkle teams came with blade, but he was still not able to compare to current dps characters. There’s also the difference in investment - blade needs a fairly fine tuned balance of crit and hp. Boothill and firefly just need break effect. Acheron just needs crit (and while attack is nice, she does VERY well with low attack.) Kafka literally just needs attack. Hsr is fundamentally a game about powercreep. Which, all in all, makes sense. Genshin stays popular despite lack of intense powercreep due to how much there is to explore and do. Hsr doesn’t have those options, so it _needs_ to compensate with the characters. And the easiest way to exploit player FOMO is making each new character intensely stronger than the last. This isn’t to say it’s only powercreep - jingliu and DHIL are still very good units, but in f2p teams, compared to every other dps, DHIL is NOT easy to use or build. He’s intensely skill point negative and once you enter that deficit, it is not easy to get out whilst dealing good damage. This is something acheron completely avoids by gaining energy through other characters debuffing enemies - something almost every debuffer can do with their ultimates. And the fact that a DOT counts as a debuff even allows kafka to be comfortably played with acheron, adding even more absurdity to kafka’s continual powercreep. But again, DHIL got sparkle, a 5* unit practically MADE for him. Whilst fu xuan was excellent for blade, she gave him no specific buffs at all.
@@frgal1336 you're aware of the Jade leaks? I see a lot of people saying that she'll be a optimal teammate to Blade, so maybe he'll see his comeback with her.
@@frgal1336Nah you didn't just say fuxuan is best for blade. He wants to get hurt more to do more dmg and fuxuan reduces the damage he takes. Lynx is good tho
While i do agree that break teams can be shut down by toughness locking mechanics, keep in mind, nowadays, we had been seeing those penacony blue dinosaurs that has massive dmg reduction until u break them. So it can go either or imo. Edit: For firefly, while there are less break LCs out there, due to her trace that converts atk to BE, the atk% Destruction LC (which there are a ton of) are good for her.
I know you technically don't need a LC for Boothill, but the fact that there are no hunt LCs that give BE besides his own, I got it so he could get up to 280 BE and then HMC, RM, and Talia's put him over 300. FF having that trace that makes atk -> BE is precisely why I'll just use Aeon on her and try to go for RM LC.
@@puenboy1Not that much tho Alot of damage dealers can just bruteforce with their raw power in contrast to boot and firefly who will do lose like 80% of their damage
@@puenboy1 I mean it's debatable. non toughness broken enemies receive only 90% of the final damage (unless stated otherwise ie. the current Apoc Shadows bosses and the quantum dinosaur), but that doesn't really matter when combos such as dhil + sparkle can spam Max Basics that hit for unholy amounts of damage like it's your average 1sp cost skill
It would be an outrage if they ever implement such a thing, it wont only hurt break teams but every archetype, since it takes away a core mechanic in hsr
As an Argenti Himeko main I’m really enjoying how hyper focused they make the meta around break cause it is just free moc/ apocalyptic shadows and pure fiction. Because most of them have phys weakness or fire weakness.
I super broke my screen just to click this lol. Anyways from the very beginning ive always been interested in the "Break effect" stat, it was so new and so unique that i made a break dps luka before he was popular and now i gotta refarm his relics to the new one. Yes i love luka that much.
This is so real!!! He's so fun to play. I tried dot Luka before but Break is so much fun. I wasn't able to get Ruan Mei because I was busy with school, but I'm Def gonna try to get her for him.
Boothill absolutely does not need crit damage, although ir is nice to have, all he really need is as much as break effect as possible. And i think firefly will be exactly the same
While a lot of weakness bar locks can be circumvented in some way, the only one that can’t is SU gepards shield. It doesn’t have a timer, you can’t kill adds to get rid of it, the only way to get rid of it is to do normal damage to it. Luckily that shield is only limited to SU gepard right now but hoyo can easily implement it to some other enemy.
Yeah, that shield is miserable, but you can still circumvent it a little bit by leaving an enemy broken but not dead, and just targeting them to wipe the shield out (It works with BH, at least
It's the power of niche units and team comps. The more you invest into those, be it through eidolons or units or LC's the better and long lasting those teams become. Same with dot, same with acheron specifically, same with most other niche playstyles like fua. The only downside I see to this new break stuff is that these characters aren't really good outside of them. So if you're good with playing pretty much the same exact team for the rest of your time with honkai then yeah they're great.
Except that FF's "niche" team is going to be the strongest team in the game at E0S0 FF&RM, free HMC and free (selector I think). There is this thing called overshooting and Mihoyo definitely did just that. FF's only real weakness is requiring HMC and wanting RM really badly. With those 2 (and Gallagher) she shreds toughness bars so fast that weakness bar locking is a minor inconvenience.
Break teams are strong BUT they are hard countered by enemies that are immune to Break. This is similar to Freeze teams in Genshin. Freeze teams are giga broken if the enemy can be frozen. If the enemies are immune to being frozen, the team is bricked.
Not the same at all. Boothill and fire hill both implement weaknesses, and their best supports only help them with their weakness breaks and in HMC, is great with imaginary break. Even if enemies are immune to break for some time, they’re not permanently immune, only for short period which you can manipulate and counter. Not to mention that freeze hasn’t been meta for years for a reason, since every boss in floor 12 cannot be frozen which IS hard countered
I mean technically but every boss that can do this besides Sam can get their weakness broken before locking toughness bar, and I’ve been instantly killed that way… And this has been tested with FF and BH in the right teams with the right speed tuning, you can break every boss before they lock themselves.
@@memesix5440 And what stops Hoyo from putting in a bunch of enemies/bosses that are permanently immune to break in the game??? Nothing. Remember how strong Venti was in 1.0??? Hoyo just made a bunch of enemies who are immune to Venti ult and called it a day. Literally nothing stopping Hoyo from making a bunch of permanently-break-immune enemies and bosses if they felt like Break teams are too strong and they want to sell a new archetype.
So it's basically Hyperbloom where you build up one team uber quick to allow you the room to build a second team on the side as you go, since you still have a team that can clear content.
Now I just need a second or third Fall of an Aeon for all these DPS units. I know I can swap LC's around but not in MOC or PF team modes where you need 2 or 3 dps at the same time. Also, as a Kafka haver, I'm glad that the dot powercreep calmed down after black swan, although I still want an aoe-bleed nihility eventually.
1.31 Funnily enough, 2.3 added toughness numbers to in-game attack descriptions, but show a different numbering system than the 15/30/60/90 scale normally used. (In-game values use a baseline unit of 10 toughness as opposed to 30 for basics, so it appears all the values are just cut in 3)
Im actually really happy- Firefly is great, but Boothill still does more damage. I was worried she'd powercreep too hard, but its honestly more like the fua situation. You have one team, the aoe team, and then another team, the hunt/single target team. Not to mention people have been running them both in dual dps team 😭
i call bs.. she is broken beyond belief.. acheron looks normal now because of how strong Firefly is. She breaks quite easily and has a damn near spammable ult like its a technique.
@mangshu21 Yeah no. Acheron is still better by a landslide. Firefly at least has weaknesses, Acheron still has none and I don't think she ever will. She does literally everything.
what makes her so good is that her team utilises super break to its full potential, with firefly's insane speed, harmony trailblazer's super break, ruan mei's weakness efficiency and delay and gallagher's break dmg buff
Break Effect or Damage playstyle is likely going to get a similar length of relevance to the big 3 before (Blade, DHIL, and Jingliu). Though I feel like unlike DoT or FuA, it's somewhat more manageable to hold back by at least making enemies immune to delay being toughness broken for a time such as with shields, barriers, or just locking out type weaknesses. There's already those bosses like Gepard, the Ambrosial Deer, Yanqing, Argenti (with the summon), and the annoying robot traffic light, which may be the way Break Damage falls behind in the future if more units like those get released. In a way, the playstyle and teams is likely meant to both encourage players to build these teams while also exploring others should those units appear. And overall it's a step in the right direction for playstyle diversity and building multiple teams when you need certain teams to defeat certain enemies. To be fair though, I do like this playstyle because Break Effect was kind of the stat that people (outside of Ruan Mei users) that just fell out of people's minds before Super Break was introduced with Harmony MC. Super Break and Break Damage playstyle just filled a gap in damage dealing that's been there for a while but there's been not many units making use of it.
Both Firefly and Boothill break EXTREMELY fast that it isn't a big issue. It's also worth noting that Break Supports are nearly non-existent, with the exception of Ruan Mei and Harmony MC, to some degree any unit with a Defense Debuff or Invulnerability. A healthy way to "prevent" Break damage from being overly broken would be through mechanics like Gepard where they are damage-gated. Protection from weakness breaks in general are quite annoying, especially with the Aurumatron mob. Weakness Break in general is a decent mechanic, although it is quite annoying when it outright gets removed. You are already more or less incentivized to actually build multiple teams, but I do think it's really important to consider relics make up for almost 50% of a character imo. So building characters are usually easier said than done, specifically with DPS' cases since Supports are usually future-proofed almost all the time. DoT imo can be very easily dealt with if they add DoT immunity or debuff immunity as it's the only playstyle that heavily relies on debuffing the opponent. It would be very unhealthy imo since I do believe that gameplay should be instead worked around with instead of being forced to do something else completely. Which, again, Gepard mechanic does quite well.
For me it's win I wanted to pull ruan mei as I don't have any limited 5 star support. I got her, then pulled FF and got her too. Harmony TB is free. It's like I just used measly 60 tickets for current meta character so that's not a lot.
Just to clarify, Break DMG is dependent on character Type, but Super Break does not care for types whatsoever. That's why Harmony Trailblazer (Imaginary, the weakest Break DMG type) can hit like a speeding truck. So we can realistically have effective Super Breakers of any element. I love Break playstyle, been enjoying this strategy since the game released too. I'm kinda worried about the future of Break meta though, since I can't imagine many reasons to get a different Break DPS character after Firefly, who can brute force Fire Weakness into anything.
I was waiting for today's video, as a loyal FUA user, Break damage is the only other niche mechanic that I find enjoyable to try. Good luck for your 2.3 pulls everyone!
Hello fellow FUA loyalist looking to dabble in the break damage waters. I am curious on your thoughts after watching this video. Do you think you may spend some of your resources on testing out break effect or do you think you will keep spending your jades to strengthen and expand your FUA empire? I know I have been in a debate on picking up key break supports or to keep funneling my topaz /build a second dedicated follow up team.
@@ahoboinacan Speaking only from my point of view, I'm as stacked as I can be for FUA characters, I'm only waiting for Aventurine's rerun but since that will take a while I don't have much more to do with my FUA characters and teams, so I was looking at other archetypes and Break looks like the most accessible and F2P friendly (I don't have most 5 stars hypercarries and I missed Kafka's banner for my DOT team) so I'm definitely excited to try something new. Break is on the rise and it's to our advantage to use the meta since the game will revolve around that for at least a version or two
Im honestly gonna have to pass on Firefly, firstly because I dont have Ruan Mei and I dont have enough jades for that (just pulled Fu Xuan + Signature LC on previous banner) but also because I saw Yunli’s gameplay this morning and I just cant help but love a small girl wielding a sword bigger than her, plus as a Clara enjoyer I love me my counter attack gameplay.
If anything this is exactly how Break should have been from the beginning, the original break is not worth the time or effort to build around and Break Effect % isn't a real stat. Break damage only happen when the target is broken means that you need a lot of planning to make sure your break character hits at the correct time. And although you get an 11% damage boost after breaking, you still need a crit dps to actually take advantage of that, which means the break character should be a support but most support wants energy rope over BE%. Silver Wolf is quite literally the only character to take advantage of all these traits (also because Quantum Break deals a shit ton of damage) and maybe break Welt for some no-sustain shenanigans. Ruan Mei is the first break scaling support, but weirdly enough she does zero break damage because of her Ice element, and has anti-synergy with normal weakness break since her delay also stop you from reapplying weakness break damage, she just happened to work so well with every single team archetype in the game due to how strong her buffs are.
Boothill's LC on Sushang (with E4) is so OP. Pure break build with speed and defensive stats. Bring Luka, Ruan Mei, HMC. Sushang breaks and Luka procs the break bleed and skill bleed. With E6 Luka, you can deal out 1mil+ damage in the first team rotation.
11:05 who lied to this man ? Firefly litteraly does 0 damage if the enemy isn't broken. I think you ment to say boothill, he does a little bit of damage even when enemy isn't broken.
I like to imagine how all the characters break it’s like bane breaking Batman’s back except they can only break by element and what not but xueyi and Acheron are can do all types and firefly and boothill just break with everything they got
Since Boothill is my first and likely will be my only 5* DPS for a long time (I'm saving up for supports and sustains), yeah, big damage numbers go brrr. Bronya makes that double the brrrr's per turn too.
I'd dare say they're underrated, i've seen people downplay them because enemies need to be broken first and thats bad for 0 cycles. Meanwhile Boothill and Firefly are easily around the level of Acheron as DPS and because of how break and Ruan Mei (One of their best supports) works they do their damage much safer than other DPS/Team comps do since enemies can't attack while broken. Add to that the fact that they have element advantage over every single enemy and how F2P friendly they are when it comes to lightcones, not to mention the huge untapped potential if they ever release a summonable super break enabler to use alongside Hatblazer (Since Super Break stacks) and i'd say they're not given quite as much credit as they deserve.
Excuse me but...Boothill and FF are f2p friendly when it comes to LC? Boothill, of all people? Who needs his LC cus it is the only Hunt one with BE stat? FF who’s next best option is Aeon, a generic Atk buff LC? Nah, both of them are very reliant on their sig LC And neither of them are near Acheron’s dps output Boothill is ST focused and his highest dmg comes from breaking the enemies FF is more group focused, her ST is not that high and does peanut dmg against non broken enemies They are both very strong in their playstyles but won’t compete with Acheron who covers all of those things with ease and even ignores tougness gauge alltogether with her ult
@@AkumaItachi 1. Neither of them are "reliant on their sig LC" Both of their second best LC's are F2P. 2. You clearly haven't seen Firefly's kit if you think that "generic atk buff LC" isn't good for her. 3. If anyone is reliant on their Sig LC its Acheron, the best f2p option she has is Fermata. The difference between Acheron's Sig LC and her best F2P option is far larger than the difference between Firefly or Boothil's. 4. Boothill and Firefly apply their own element as a weakness, they will work on literally any enemy that you can break and their full potential is still up in the air because we only have one Super Break Enabler right now which is Hatblazer. And STILL both Boothil and Firefly perform equal to or beyond Acheron's level. Acheron is not in a league of her own anymore, just a fact 🤷♂
@@arcadius3257 I never said it is not good on her, just saying that it is a basic choice cus there's not much choice otherwise Yes, Acheron is as well, a lot of characters in HSR are, that's how they make money I know they can, that's why i said that they are very strong in their respective playstyles, Acheron doesn't need to break enemies to do insane dmg They do not tho, Boothill's dmg is great but not as consistent or as high and FF does good dmg against groups of broken enemies but she needs to get to that point first and her ST dmg is not even comparable to Acheron's They are both very strong but they are not equal or beyond Acheron, at least now They might get a 5* break support, Lingsha maybe, but Acheron is getting Jiaoqiu in 2.4 and his support for her is insane
@@AkumaItachi 1. There doesn't need to be "much choice" its her second best LC and its fully f2p 🤦♂️ 2. No, not "as well" Acheron is reliant on her signature LC and Boothil and Firefly aren't, its that simple. 3. Because Acheron is not a break unit, shes enabled by debuffs, the fact of the matter remains that both Boothill and Firefly are comfortable on the same level and are more consistent then Acheron is...especially without the signature LC. 4. Both of these statements are false, boothills damage is so high that him being a ST dps is made irrelevant by it unless you're up against 4 or more enemies and Firefly literally rips through elites and bosses. They ARE equal to Acheron and Firefly is arguable just better for most encounters. 5. Jiaoqiu already got changed again and is going to experience more changes before he releases and even the best state of what he does doesn't even come close to what a second super break enabler would do for boothill and especially firefly since 74% of her damage is enabled by hatblazer.
They are as f2p friendly as you can get guaranteed dmg no having to farm weeks or months for crit ratio just to still not crit. in Firefly case you only really need to lvl her ult traces to do a lot of dmg. Most of their best supports are 4 stars or standrad 5 star in the case of Boothill. They don't even need to have a lightcone equipped to do a lot of dmg but they have good f2p options Aeon of the Fall and Adversarial for Firefly and Boothill respectively.
She is harder to build attack for due to her lower attack stats and even though she can do some damage while the enemies aren’t broken, it’s hilarious how much more damage she does when they are. Her attack really serves just as another way to get more break effect.
Until recently Break Weakness was an almost dead mechanic, with the only character that took advantage of it being a 4 Star that no one uses. So to push this new META and motivate the playerbase to go after characters like Boothill and Firefly, the game is heavily favoring Break Characters in all aspects (Game Modes, Enemies, Bosses, etc...) but as soon as the favoritism ends and the next new thing starts to get attention they won't necessarily get worse but they will definitely see a drop in effectiveness
I'd like to make a small PSA because of one thing you mentioned. At 7:20 you mention her being a hybrid scaler that can build "crit stats and Break Effect". For the love of God, DO NOT BUILD CRIT ON HER. Attack is beneficial, since it converts into more BE, but the crit stats are wasted, especially since Break damage CANNOT crit. The correct stats to build on Firefly are BE, Atk and Speed, since all of these contribute in some way (BE because that's how she deals most of her damage, Atk because it converts into more BE, and Speed so she can more quickly activate her Ultimate and also so she can act more times within her Ultimate (btw, Firefly gains a flat 60 SPD when she ults, so if you get her to 150 SPD outside of ult, she'll have 210, which is just enough for her to attack 4 times in 1 ult)).
correection, firefly non break damage is absolute dogshit, and because he doesn't build crit at all is even more dogshit, boothill non break damage while still low it's still miles ahead whatever firefly does
If you're reliant on your Breaking and plan to mostly use her on an SB-based team, then yeah it basically won't matter. If you have 5⭐ pieces lying around w Atk% subs then you can throw those on her
The only way I see Crit Rate Firefly making sense is if you wanted to do the Cavity System Model cheese in the SU. But you can already do that with any DPS
@@Safineyayes and no. Harmony MC provides the super break that had a good damage ratio. Firefly is the best unit to abuse that damage ratio. They are very synergistic units.
for casuals overpowered, once you have at least some good C2 or C1 (Fontaine level character) is just overrated, this is why people don't speedrun with Alhaitham or Keqing in higher levels of investiment.
It's low investment to get to a point where your damage rivals a decently invested DPS, but once you really invest into a DPS, hyperbloom isn't all that good in comparison (I only play hyperbloom in overworld for my afk E team) So the answer is: both. I've never run hyperbloom because I had dpses built before dendro came out and I was so confused on why people kept saying hyperbloom was amazing because it seemed like a dps loss to me, and then I started an alt account and realized that hyperbloom is the easiest way to erase everything on the map with 3* artifacts
I don't think she's anywhere near Acheron's level of insanity. Acheron just beats everything with no effort and is brain dead af to use. Firefly, however, as you stated, does have weaknesses. Enemies that you can't break until certain conditions are met being the perfect example of that.
Break meta is basically HSR's hyperbloom. It'll be incredibly broken and easy to build, but also has a glaring weakness through enemies who lock their toughness bar. It's another way to play the game and should be welcomed
But enemies never lock their toughness bar forever, and FF has shown (in leaks) to shred them nearly instantly the moment the lock is gone. And this is on top of this "counter" also countering every other dps. If they truly want to stop Break teams, they need to introduce an enemy with either innate Break dmg resistance or permanently lock their weakness. The latter of which makes the game unfun for everyone.
You can see Boothill 0 cycle clears against SAM, a boss that locks their toughness bar right at the gate. The moment it's unlocked, it's pretty much over for SAM.
Honestly I would say that Xueyi is a surprisingly reliable 4 star dps unit in a break dmg team especially since her ult doesn’t care about types and if you have her E2 neither does her fua. She’s surprisingly fun and is my current pick for my 2 good teams, the other being a Jingliu double sustain team using Gepard and Lynx alongside Pela. I would say that my current account isn’t half bad though point I wanted to make was: it’s not too hard to do a break team since you get a must support for free, your sustain is a 4 star, your dps can be one too and your other support can be many different units if you don’t have Ruan Mei so it’s not that innaccessible you just have to deal with many gimmicks that most won’t
Hey Jinli, great video btw. Just also wanted to point out another downside of the break teams is how restrictive they are with team building. As of right now, if you want to run Firefly, she MUST be run with HMC (Harmony Main Character) and Ruan Mei, non-negotiable. Similar to the IPC follow-up team, where the performance drops if one member is CC'd, FF does like 40-50% dmg w/o HMC's buff and has significantly less break efficiency w/o Ruan Mei's skill. This will probably be alleviated further down the line as more units are released, but as of now, if newer players are trying to get Firefly w/o Ruan Mei, they are in for a bit of disappointment.
Restrictive team building really Means nothing in a game where there is no playstyle variation you just plug the charxters in and press auto Firefly having a super fixed team of three supports is amazing as she doesn’t share them with others
Firefly doesn't need indelible promise if you don't have her signature. On the Fall of an Aeon is very good on her because she can convert attack into break effect. Unfortunately, it's also good on most other destruction units because it just gives a buttload of attack.
For basically every break dps but boothill yes. Rather than making harmony mc a break damage buffer, they give everybody the ability to do super break at over 100% effectiveness, and firefly's own kit takes a massive loss in damage because mc's super break is so strong they have to keep firefly herself weak in order for it to be "balanced"
@@risusama The could've just made different SB sources not stack. Then they could've adjusted FF to a satisfying level without HMC (who actually gives SB at 120-160% effectiveness, depending on amount of enemies), without breaking the game when they're together (and maybe even a future SB support to further stack SB)
I've never really seen it as powercreep more than hoyo just generally expanding the variety of available teams and playstyles available in the game. Nihility meta happened because Nihility just so happened to get all the pieces to build a meta defining team first, but now we have dot teams, acheron debuff teams, the IPC FUA team, any hypercarry setup, and now break teams. Yes, acheron may be the best overall dps in the game, but it's not like the gap is so wide that you can't still absolutely destroy MoC 12 and the various other endgame modes with kafka, or Jingliu, or DHIL, or the FUA team. To me personally it feels like hoyo have been letting us choose what type of teams we want to focus on with the new releases. Want FUA? boom, here's aventurine followed by a topaz rerun and the robin that ties it all together. Want to dip into break? Well here's a ruan mei and gallagher rerun with a free HMC that synergizes extremely well with break teams, and we'll let you complete the puzzle by choosing whether you want boothill or firefly as your main break dps due to how flexible the role is. I fully expect more characters that support acheron/dot teams to come out in the next few patches, or have current characters used in those teams rerun, which is great, because the people that want to play that archetype can pull on those banners, while I get to pull on the break banners, and neither group feels like they're completely missing out and HAVE to pull on every banner.
I think having all these availble teams is making people even more likely to feel like they have to pull on every banner. The content usually favor one playstyle over the other based on who is on banner on time and make it really annoying for other characters to do. Right now they are favoring break and people without a break dps or on element dps in general will be suffering in Apocayptic Shadow. The DOT favored PF same thing it now encourage you to invest in DOT. Overall it seem like you want to have coverage for all the archetypes they introduce or you will have a hard time. Of course you can still complete the content without the favored playstyle it will just require more than average investment. Sometimes you may need to fall back on the brute force hypercarry playstyle. Next couple characters don't look to be changing things up much so thats a god send honestly we have too many gamechangers almost back to back to back.
@@eszterfodor1136 it is factually power creep, but it's harmless if it doesn't impact the gameplay. Having bigger damage numbers doesn't matter if your enemies don't have healthbars that require so much damage. If you needed new units because regardless of investment you will never do enough to clear, that's harmful power creep.
@@doublereel-real More investment is hidden behind rng and gacha in this game so if content is favoring one playstyle or character over the other and you have to get better relics or eidolons or lightcone to keep up with old characters that is harmful powercreep. Just look at Jingyuan and Blade they are near unviable right now without signature lightcones and premium supports. You need cracked relics with their Signatures lightcones and Sparkle with signature lightcones just to match E0S0 Acheron hypercarry or IPC followup or DOT or Firefly Superbreak. Even Jingliu is falling off without sig lightcone and eidolons just not to the point of Jingyuan and Blade. High investment is viable for high spenders but for f2p they could be missing out on months of good characters just to get their old unit decent and not have to crit fish for wins all the time.
I can't even "just pull for your favorite characters" in this game anymore. Every update they introduce stronger characters that are almost always required to finish MoC easily. I'm so tired of this, no one uses Jing Yuan or Seele as much anymore.. I want to pull for Ruan Mei, but then everyone says firefly is a must pull.. Lose 50/50, goes to hard pity, and next patch someone else would overpower them again. I used to enjoy playing this game
@@elliQazif they tell you that you pulled for the wrong character, theyre the ones in the wrong. Just pull for whoever you like and have fun with them, you don’t have to all clear moc every time
That’s why I never do MoC unless I’m desperate for jades(flashback to DHIL rerun). I pull for characters I want or have set my goal to getting that character, I just do trailblaze quests, I don’t let meta say what I should pull(although I did just pull for Ruan Mei. I wouldn’t have really cared if I lost 50/50, as long as it wasn’t Yanqing or Bailu.😅Thenagain, I’m F2P)
Vars sounds like that guy you beat that shit out of, bullied, picked on in High School, but now you respect him massively and feel bad for all the names you called him. Much love Vars great video.
Ngl, I've played this game for over a year and the name of the this game is Power-Creep. I've learned to pull for who I like versus who "does the damage!" I'm not pulling for Firefly cuz I don't like her nearly as much as everyone else seems to. I also am not a fan of the Superbreak Meta that came literally came out of nowhere. I'm sticking with my DoTs and Follow-ups.
I think they are adding new game play. Accheron not out of date and dot team still work in all scenarios. Also all DPS can become break dps especially with the new relic set, coming out.
I really want to see break team getting more developed. Since break and toughness it the cream and butter of Hsr like how elemental reaction affect Genshin
i have no thoughts about anything meta with genshin or star rail. all i can say is: i love having gallagher in my team. super break with harmony mc turned my gallagher into a sub dps which is even more insanely better, and im currently having a fun time with harmony mc, gallagher, boothill and a character of choice (i like pela cause the dmg number of my boothill goes up even higher). i still enjoy DoT the most in star rail. my favorite team is acheron, black swan, pela, gallagher. although now hearing that Jiaoqiu will come out in the future, i have a character to look forward to again. guinaifen kinda didnt do the fire DoT that i wanted, or i just dont understand her enough, but im really looking forward to fire DoT. everything else is a skip until then. i didnt mean to get boothill either, but i didnt have any character upcoming that i was looking forward to, so i did some random pulls and got him early. and im having unexpected fun with him. i guess thats all that counts. ^^
I think follow up teams actually prefer zvarog. Yes, on one hand, you get screwed no matter who he takes, but losing topaz in a fua team isnt as bad as losing acheron or dhil in their teams. So fua is basically the low risk low reward option. I think fua teams get hurt by enemies with a mechanic that encourages big bursts of dmg instead of a constant flurry (cannot think of any examples rn)
they could make enemies that have counter hits like the fire dinossaur in penacony, but instead of disabling him after a certain number of hits, they can make so that it gets a shield or higher resistances. This makes hypercarry teams (that have one big hit) more appealing than FUA (that have a lot of minor hits).
I mean with super break teams, we now have a good amount of playstyles one can choose and where the devs can create bosses that counteract against those teams. Now i only played games like summoners war and epic7, but their hunting bosses are really interesting, if you don't one shot them at all. Some counterattack after a certain amount of hits they take and also stun (against fua teams) Some are immune to crit or debuff or just straight up take less damage until certain conditions are fulfilled (hypercarry/acheron) Necropolis from sw needs his shield broken, but before he steals one of your units and also heals when attacking (any team realistically, but in this case break). Break team is just a mechanic that sooner or later needs to be realized. Oh yeah and Hoyo needs to implement universal lightcones at 3 or 4 stars, that do not boost certain nieches. Give us simple stat bonuses an not these cheeky extra buffs only achievable by specific characters whose kits allows them to activate it every time
Yeah yeah pull Firefly, pull Ruan Mei, she is gonna carry your account, she will help you clear all content yadayada. And here i am, struggling to pick one because i can't afford both.
You should do a video about how Hoyo have painted themselves into a design corner with their three DPS paths due to how Destruction > Hunt/Erudition. Stellar balance XD
The only thing that would nerf break characters would be enemies that lock their weaknesses like a trotter escaping or SAM, I wouldn't be surprised if they release an enemy or a boss even that cannot have their weakness broken in the future.
Idk man, the latest moc and as have been favoring break and giving all the buffs with be, of course firefly will be cracked, but somehow my 120 crit damage qq can still 4 cycle argenti off-element without the need of the trotter buff at all, and that's with qq, an optimum mono qua run with seele will achieve around 3 cycles (literally the 1st dps), imo the powercreep is still healthy.
Follow Up Attacks used to be "gimmicks." and Topaz ultimately felt like a weird character to pull for. Now? They're a proper archetypes. Super Break/Break Characters are gonna be the same. Hoyo has everything to gain by constantly making new archetypes for people to pull into, while also diversifying game options/team viabilities.
We finally got full DOT, Break, and Followup teams after those mechanics been in the game since day one. Don't know where they go from here though and the next few characters look to fit into these archetypes as well.
I mean, break teams only need break effect and SPD. Therefore, they can use 3 star cones effectively. Hunt characters can use Adversarial for a massive SPD boost for example. More SPD = more breaking of bones and ablazing of seas.
The insane powercreep of the game is honestly killing it for me, especially in regards to the events/endgame content. It's becoming so ridiculously challenging that it's actively unfun to play. If you don't have the new meta defining character of the patch, you will fail. All of these damn specific checks within the game is just frustrating. I wanna win with my favorites, not follow a hivemind of going with 'meta picks' just to stand a chance.
1:29 Not to be an "acktually 🤓", I ask this as a genuine question : didn't HSR change the value to be 1 segment of Toughness equal to a value of 10, since the current version ? With the new toughness reduction value displayed on characters abilities, we see "10" on basic attacks of most characters now, that's why I'm a bit confused. If so, do we know why they changed from 1 segment = 30 to 1 segment = 10 ?
I absolutely love the way niches are implemented in this game. I believe the amount you invest in one niche is well rewarded, because the mechanics focused on each niche is very specific, making it easier for you to invest on the exact stats you need and for hoyoverse to create characters that are perfectly synergistic. For example, a complete premium FUA team (avent + robin + 2 fua dps) can do bosses, MOC and pure fiction almost in disregard of enemy weaknessess, and basically the same can be said about premium DOT teams. The only problem I see is that you NEED to compromise to that niche, getting a lot of 5☆ chars and signature LCs. I believe that these same rules will apply to break.
I also think we need to need to talk about characters that apply Elemental Weakness and how broken this actually this given nost of these character are break units it adds even more in morotance to their power potential and the meta. I think in a game were the funadamentasl rely on having different units for each element Elemental weakness application trivializeds the game foundation (not in a good or bad way just in a broken way.)
Well, if said characters didn't have the way to implant those weaknesses unto enemies, they would just feel extremely bad to play if you were fighting enemies that don't have their weakness type. And if there's no specific mechanic to punish you because you didn't bring the specific weakness of the boss then making characters that get punished by that would be horrible game design
@@cinder3la999 "they would feel bad to play if you were fighting enemies that dont have their weakness type" uh yeah, thats the poinT? Having characters who can implant weakness single handedly basically for free (Firefly duh) breaks the game and ensures firefly is a must pick that can tack ANY content single handedly. The only good implementations of weakness implant are boothill (its temporary and on one target) and Silver Wolf (same deal) or Acheron who can ignore weakness with her ult. Firefly gets weakness implant AND also ignores weaknesses anyways,, is able to consistently and easily get her OP ult and is directly buffed by HMC to a ridiculous degree. Granted I love firefly but I know im going to take her into any and all content simply because she is the best pick
Given that the strongest Break Team utilizes one free character (HMC) and one 4* character (Gallagher), it can be argued that pulling Boothill/Firefly is buying into a meta at a low price, with the possibility for stonks to rise. And “low price” arguably applies to Ruan Mei as well, since players should probably try to have Ruan Mei anyway as a multi-purpose support. This is in contrast to FUA, where one of the most crucial characters, Topaz, cannot work anywhere else but FUA. It’s unlikely that one of the best teams in the game will always rely on HMC and Gallagher, and the devs could very well release limited 5* characters that can replace both of them. HMC (a free character) already increases Firefly’s Super Break damage by almost 5x. Now imagine what a limited 5* version of HMC could do. And a similar kind of upgrade from Gallagher is likely in the future. So if there is any compelling reason to pull Firefly and Ruan Mei with v2.3, this banner might be the closest that the HSR meta has gotten to a “buy the dip” opportunity.
In the early days, break damage is incredibly niche, as one problem of break damage is that there is a cool down of break damage before enemies recovers, and building BE means you are forgoing other stats such as crits and attack
I mean and your point? BE characters don’t need Crit stats and Attack for the most part. As for it being Niche not really breaking opponents has been a thing since day one they just made a team to make that into A relevant form of damage. Also if you built your team right the moment an opponent breaks they’re dead They won’t get a chance to recover.
@@The_CodFish69 the only characters that can work with break at that time is Luka, sushang and Asta, they don’t even have ruan Mei even with ruan mek, how the hell are break suppose to stand up against the destruction meta at that time? enemies were dead way before their toughness gauge falls to 0
In follow up video i said "When firefly release i want to see Var discuss break DPS and Super break as a whole and is it good or niche or bad" and finally in this day he cover it 🤣🤣🤣
I got e1 Firelfy and her light cone (save so a bunch) so I am happy to say she is busted with Harmony MC and Ruan Mei. Fields is Honkai golden girl who they clearly love and the fandom so it only makes sense where playable character is super busted! I mean she is sickly the MC wiafu/ship!
Unpopular (probably not) opinion is: Break teams are Genshin's Elemental Mastery teams of HSR, everyone's gonna forget about crit teams cuz they begin seeing more numbers and more dmg
Firefly has 0 dmg outside of break, she is literally useless if you cant break the enemy, like her enhanced skill does like 7k dmg on a trotter that cant be broken
The good thing about break effect meta lately is that, you dont even need to invest on crit since its verg easy to get break effect nowadays, but seeing Firefly's kit because she needed speed then it would be pretty hard to invest her.
To be honest this is just the same, in the end crit and BE is just a substats. In a bad roll, you can waste 1000++ energy and not get a single BE substats, they do exists in set effect but in the end you need to get higher BE for BE centered units. (Just like how Crit DPS needs high CDMG to deal decent damage).
@@nemasisdemarini8339 then isnt it mathematically easier to get crit substats because you can roll to any of the crit stats vs. you need to exactly roll for BE? 😅
@@ValentinoNicko Crit substat has the lowest drop rates in the game, whereas BE is higher. For Firefly, she looks for BE, SPD, and ATK. Two of them are pretty common stats. Then Boothill looks for BE and SPD.
@@ValentinoNickothe difference is that you need a balance of both stats also you have to take in account substat chances, crit stats are less common compared to break
It’s crazy that we’re just a year into the game and we already have characters capable of destroying planets, I wonder if by next year we’ll have characters capable of destroying solar systems or galaxies
7:20 Firefly doesn’t care at all for crit actually. Somewhere around 2-3% of her final damage scales with crit. She is hybrid scaling tho as you say with the ATK conversion. Base ATK is factored in making On the Fall of an Aeon a pretty decent substitute for her signature, most calcs I’ve seen put it on par with or above Indellible Promise. Unfortunately Robin’s ATK boost doesn’t count, unless they change it last minute, but most other forms of ATK buffs do.
ATK+break effect makes dot go brrr
Calcs already shown Fall of Aeon is just better, which is good, no one has that misha LC at s5 lol
@@dr.stonksakahelth5857I do for my Xueyi :3
Yeah looking back that was a poor choice of words. I should've instead said that you could build her via normal damage and break damage. I wasn't at all trying to imply you HAD to build crit on her but I can see how it would be interpreted that way.
@@dr.stonksakahelth5857i.......do
They are not Overpowered or Overrated. They’re Overbroken.
Super broken
@@Keiro_gam1ng SUPA BREAK
Mindbroken
@@raiesh3813MINDBREAK
Wait oh hel nahh...
I feel like some kinda music should start playing at the last statement
the star rail cycle:
1. hoyo releases a new meta defining unit with niche playstyle
2. hoyo makes moc that caters to niche playstyle
3. new playstyle becomes the meta
wash rinse repeat
True, they are very creative.
better than genshins, at least pulling matters now 💀
@@solarenityIn genshin you can pull/play your favorites without being punished by the seasonal "meta". How is that a bad thing?
@@Alastor-x I still use Seele... Still depends on your play style and investment. I have 3 Hypercarry teams, 1 FUA in my account and those are still killing MoC 12 so...
@@Alastor-x in genshin it is more about the DPS check, if your character doesn't do this amount of damage they can't clear the content, in HSR it's more depending on moc buff that can make even weaker characters shine and incentives team building
HSR is now in the stage of diversifying team archetypes. In 1.x HSR was releasing generalist units (Fu Xuan, Huohuo, Ruan Mei, etc). Now the game is introducing new mechanics and building on niches we never knew even existed.
There are currently four main team archetypes in the game:
1. Hypercarry (Seele, DHIL, Jingliu, Acheron) - consists of one DPS, called the hypercarry. Every support is catered to boost the hypercarry’s damage. Examples of hypercarry supports include Bronya, Sparkle, and Tingyun, who are mainly single target Harmony characters.
2. DoT (Kafka, Black Swan) - consists of two or three DoT units, may have one teamwide buffer (usually Ruan Mei). These teams utilize applying status effects on the enemy that cause them to take massive damage on what should have been their turn. Important examples include Kafka who can instantly detonate all DoTs currently on the enemy. Because DoTs are generally Nihility units, they can go hand-in-hand with Acheron to boost the Emanator’s damage output.
3. Follow-Up (Clara, Topaz, Yunli, Dr. Ratio, Jade) - these units incentivize attacking outside of their turns, generally by upgrading their talents. Counterattacks are considered follow-up attacks because they occur outside of that unit’s turn.
4. (Super) Break (Boothill, Firefly, Gallagher, HMC, Xueyi, Ruan Mei) - a new archetype with the introduction of Firefly, this archetype incentivizes breaking the enemy as fast as possible to whale on it while it’s down and can’t do anything. These characters are highly compromised if the enemy is Weakness Protected (can’t be broken).
When we get new units, we can expect them to build on these niches and expand each archetype. The meta often fluctuates along these archetypes, so the dominant team archetype will change after a while. However, generalist supports (Ruan Mei, Fu Xuan, and Huohuo, for example) are likely to NOT be powercrept any time soon, which makes them higher priority pulls than the current “meta” DPS. Who knows? Maybe the DPS you invested in today may become obsolete tomorrow.
Break teams are gonna go on the rise. Trust. Weve seen how powerful Boothill and Firefly are, and considering HSR being prone to powercreep, its very possible we will see the break meta form and overtake
Edit: I think the next hsr vid should be on the 4 horsemen of harmony (Bronya, Ruan Mei, Sparkle and Robin) and how they make the support class super competitive, despite there being more support slots in a team. Could talk about each of their strengths and how they overshadow most other supports.
Nah in 2.4 theres Jiaoquiu a 5* Aoe Debuffer (even boost ult dmg)
Which is straight up an Acheron buff in power
@@XuanBachTrinh-of3pbI feel bad for firefly then
I would switch Bronya with HMC. Sparkle took over Bronya's position in hypercarry teams. HMC on the other hand, while they might be niche, that said niche would not be able to work without them, making them more valuable.
@@XuanBachTrinh-of3pb If Jiaoqiu reduces enemy def like the rumors say, then Break teams would still benefit from him. He might replace Gallagher in BiS Break teams depending on how strong his def shred and healing are.
@@WanderingPoro_217That's outdated information on Jiaoqiu. He has no healing and def shred. He primarily inflicts vulnerability and dmg increase.
Okay but that same problem occurs with dot teams. We can't go on the theoretical because if dot comes up against a mass cleansing unit the it's just as far up shit creek as the break team.
All units and teams have inherent weaknesses. That's why you have to work around them. And have teams built for other scenarios.
And that's why I like this game, I never feel like I have one team comp that can "do everything" - I'm encouraged to use several. If it was like Genshin, and we could just brute-force everything, it wouldn't be quite as rewarding when we finally beat that tough boss we've spent ten tries on.
what are the weaknesses of the fua comp?
@otashu9176 talents and uptime. The members of the FUA team need to either trigger each other, or in Clara's case, get attacked to FUA. If your characters get stunned or dazed by an enemy's debuff, or someone gets KO'd, then your team can be rendered limp quickly
Or imagine jingliu against an enemy immune to crit damage or Acheron vs enemy immune to debuffs
@@angeldiaz762 this also can be applied for other team not just FUA team. In reality this new super break night be the best teams due to how universal RM can be play and weakness implants by both Boothill and Firefly
Honestly rolling for break is far less a headache than trying to get crit stats up
You are looking for 1 substat while crit wants 2, break effect reaching 20 is equivalent to a 30+ cv relic
This is actually a smart and calculated game mechanic to shift the meta by making the trailblazer a key component in making what is broken, ‘broken’ - in the next meta whenever trailblazer gets their next form it’ll most likely powercreep harmony trailblazer, making you WANT to use the new form and moving people away from firefly, who is completely dependant on harmony trailblazer and encourage you to pull for new characters with whatever the next trailblazer form synergizes with.
While firefly is completely broken right now, you basically have to count her as TWO characters because she’s borderline awful without harmony mc.. then you probably want ruan mei in there too, leaving only one slot likely for your sustain (unless you’re in zero cycle territory, which means it doesn’t really matter since you’re in whale territory). Firefly is actually pigeon-holed into very limited options and it’s pretty obvious she will fall off if new supports don’t come out that will make her more flexible…
The question from here is will they release another character that will keep firefly relevant without harmony MC, or will they just leave her in the dust as the meta changes?
Leaving firefly in the dust would be “as expected of hoyo/gacha” perception, while keeping firefly relevant in some form in 3.0+ will show more competent/nuanced game developers (hoping for the latter)…
Curious and interested to see how hoyo manages this. I don’t think it’s a coincidence at all that they borderline made shipping mc+firefly canon, it’s likely so when the meta shifts they have more reason let firefly stay where she is in the meta and have players move on with new meta characters.
this will only hold true if the devs were going the route of making superbreak exclusive to harmony trailblazer, which is the original premise everyone had when firefly's v1 beta launched. everyone was expecting superbreak to be harmony tbs "gimmick" that is never shared to anyone else, like the multi type ult of destruction and the taunt of preservation. then they reworked the break set to specifically buff superbreak, gave firefly her own superbreak, and even made multiple blessings in divergent universe provide superbreak. this implies that superbreak will not be an exclusive mechanic, but instead will be a new damage channel similar to dots. i find it very difficult to believe they will simply *never* make another superbreak enabler, esp when there could be so many more creative ways to have a character provide it, for example a nihility who makes a target with their debuff take an instance of superbreak, or an action advancer like bronya or sparkle that give the target superbreak for x turns. trailblazer powercreep aside, it also just kinda makes sense to have at least one more superbreak enabler, so that you have the capability to either run them with hmc for big funny damage, or split them between two sides and have both be superbreak teams. granted, it probably wont be anytime soon, i mean take a look at dot teams, we've yet to even so much as begin to hear rumors about any new dot detonators to powercreep/diversify dot from just kafka, but i do think its inevitable regardless.
Who knows? Firefly might actually turn out to be Ayaka 2.0 in this game where she would be really broken in the few patches and then slowly drop when new units that doesn’t buff her get released
I bet in 3.x patch HSR will have every enemy locked their weakness
Trotters: revengeance
well might be better to just pull for characters that can bruteforce like dhil and acheron
It might become more common but they won't take out such a big part of the game.
I think what I like most about the multiple teams angle Star Rail is going for means while powercreep will happen eventually, it's going to be paced in such a way where you won't feel the need to pull on every banner. So for break characters you can comfortably get Sam and Boothill, and then skip a few banners if you feel like those banners don't do anything for your team. I quite like it, and I hope that's the direction they're going
This, to be honest it sorta feels like they're spreading the meta thin over multiple team archetypes? While gamewide meta is still being disrupted by new chars like Acheron or Boothill, game's still really playable without them and the clear-cut lines between teams make it easy to know who not to pull for for your team. Makes choosing easier for mfs like me who're spread too thin already in farming n resources
This is exactly what I was saying, some weirdo tiktokker was complaining about powercreep but it is my belief that while Firefly could potentially be better than Acheron, Acheron herself doesn't have her best supports yet and both of them don't necessarily powercreep Kafka teams since their specialization is a different one.
You could theoretically argue that it powercreeps in bigger numbers but sometimes bigger numbers isn't really everything.
@@KalleDemos666true, but then again, the powercreep is, in the end, fairly plain to see.
Blade, a character that used to be insanely strong, now struggles to match current dps levels. Whilst he has his own benefits such as sustainability, it doesn’t matter much when his own output isn’t great.
And also, yes, it is still powercreep if units are revealed later that synergise well if theyre 5*. If you have to pull a 5* for that unit to be as good as another, they are simply not as strong.
Blade’s best teammates as of now are fuxuan, lynx and bronya/sparkle. 3 of his ideal supports are 5* units. Acheron’s best teammates absolutely demolish how good blade’s are.
Yes, you can’t typically run harmony with acheron. The thing is, when you have 2 nihility characters both defence shredding, harmony isn’t really needed by that point.
Don’t get me wrong, i love blade, he’s the only 5* i have the lc of (besides dr ratio, but that was essentially the same as pulling for dr ratio himself, which i would have done regardless.) and i WISH he was as strong as the current dps characters. But to face facts, he simply can’t compare to them. Even kafka, a character whose banner was RIGHT after his, was already stronger than him from the beginning. And she’s only gotten stronger.
Jing yuan saw his comeback in the form of topaz, sparkle, and robin. Seele saw hers in the form of sparkle. Hell, even yanqing could have had a comeback due to adventurine were it not for his horrific scalings. Blade received his comeback in the form of fu xuan… and that was it. The closest to an improvement in recent time was robin, and even then, she’s far from his ideal support.
Blade is a character whos teams should have been ridiculously flexible, mostly due to the fact that you could ENTIRELY FORGO an abundance or preservation unit. The first examples of double bronya sparkle teams came with blade, but he was still not able to compare to current dps characters.
There’s also the difference in investment - blade needs a fairly fine tuned balance of crit and hp.
Boothill and firefly just need break effect.
Acheron just needs crit (and while attack is nice, she does VERY well with low attack.)
Kafka literally just needs attack.
Hsr is fundamentally a game about powercreep. Which, all in all, makes sense.
Genshin stays popular despite lack of intense powercreep due to how much there is to explore and do. Hsr doesn’t have those options, so it _needs_ to compensate with the characters. And the easiest way to exploit player FOMO is making each new character intensely stronger than the last.
This isn’t to say it’s only powercreep - jingliu and DHIL are still very good units, but in f2p teams, compared to every other dps, DHIL is NOT easy to use or build. He’s intensely skill point negative and once you enter that deficit, it is not easy to get out whilst dealing good damage.
This is something acheron completely avoids by gaining energy through other characters debuffing enemies - something almost every debuffer can do with their ultimates. And the fact that a DOT counts as a debuff even allows kafka to be comfortably played with acheron, adding even more absurdity to kafka’s continual powercreep.
But again, DHIL got sparkle, a 5* unit practically MADE for him. Whilst fu xuan was excellent for blade, she gave him no specific buffs at all.
@@frgal1336 you're aware of the Jade leaks? I see a lot of people saying that she'll be a optimal teammate to Blade, so maybe he'll see his comeback with her.
@@frgal1336Nah you didn't just say fuxuan is best for blade. He wants to get hurt more to do more dmg and fuxuan reduces the damage he takes. Lynx is good tho
While i do agree that break teams can be shut down by toughness locking mechanics, keep in mind, nowadays, we had been seeing those penacony blue dinosaurs that has massive dmg reduction until u break them. So it can go either or imo.
Edit: For firefly, while there are less break LCs out there, due to her trace that converts atk to BE, the atk% Destruction LC (which there are a ton of) are good for her.
Locking toughness bar also hurts non break teams a lot tho
I know you technically don't need a LC for Boothill, but the fact that there are no hunt LCs that give BE besides his own, I got it so he could get up to 280 BE and then HMC, RM, and Talia's put him over 300.
FF having that trace that makes atk -> BE is precisely why I'll just use Aeon on her and try to go for RM LC.
Fall of an aeon xD
@@puenboy1Not that much tho Alot of damage dealers can just bruteforce with their raw power in contrast to boot and firefly who will do lose like 80% of their damage
@@puenboy1 I mean it's debatable. non toughness broken enemies receive only 90% of the final damage (unless stated otherwise ie. the current Apoc Shadows bosses and the quantum dinosaur), but that doesn't really matter when combos such as dhil + sparkle can spam Max Basics that hit for unholy amounts of damage like it's your average 1sp cost skill
the only problem of break teams is that hoyo can shut it down so easily with weakness protecting enemies
That's what I'm scared of after pulling E2 firefly. Without breaking enemies her damage is lowest😢
@@ashar7494 yeah hope hoyo isnt so ruthless or that one side always cant protect its weakness
It would be an outrage if they ever implement such a thing, it wont only hurt break teams but every archetype, since it takes away a core mechanic in hsr
As an Argenti Himeko main I’m really enjoying how hyper focused they make the meta around break cause it is just free moc/ apocalyptic shadows and pure fiction. Because most of them have phys weakness or fire weakness.
13:06 did Vars forget about fall of a aeon and how good it is on firefly?
tbf, that shit works on every destruction units
@@soep19 its so good i had to swap it around my destruction units
anyone who played firefly knows how good aeon is on her, this makes me question whether the man plays the character or just pure theory craft on wikis
@@california_wang8078 judging by the vid and overall speech, i think he had little to no experience with her tbh
I super broke my screen just to click this lol.
Anyways from the very beginning ive always been interested in the "Break effect" stat, it was so new and so unique that i made a break dps luka before he was popular and now i gotta refarm his relics to the new one. Yes i love luka that much.
This is so real!!! He's so fun to play. I tried dot Luka before but Break is so much fun. I wasn't able to get Ruan Mei because I was busy with school, but I'm Def gonna try to get her for him.
Boothill absolutely does not need crit damage, although ir is nice to have, all he really need is as much as break effect as possible. And i think firefly will be exactly the same
She won't be she *is* the same
While a lot of weakness bar locks can be circumvented in some way, the only one that can’t is SU gepards shield. It doesn’t have a timer, you can’t kill adds to get rid of it, the only way to get rid of it is to do normal damage to it.
Luckily that shield is only limited to SU gepard right now but hoyo can easily implement it to some other enemy.
Yeah, that shield is miserable, but you can still circumvent it a little bit by leaving an enemy broken but not dead, and just targeting them to wipe the shield out (It works with BH, at least
It's the power of niche units and team comps. The more you invest into those, be it through eidolons or units or LC's the better and long lasting those teams become. Same with dot, same with acheron specifically, same with most other niche playstyles like fua. The only downside I see to this new break stuff is that these characters aren't really good outside of them. So if you're good with playing pretty much the same exact team for the rest of your time with honkai then yeah they're great.
Except that FF's "niche" team is going to be the strongest team in the game at E0S0 FF&RM, free HMC and free (selector I think).
There is this thing called overshooting and Mihoyo definitely did just that. FF's only real weakness is requiring HMC and wanting RM really badly. With those 2 (and Gallagher) she shreds toughness bars so fast that weakness bar locking is a minor inconvenience.
@12:18 Acheron being oblivious to Fu Xuan's demise is so real
Break teams are strong BUT they are hard countered by enemies that are immune to Break.
This is similar to Freeze teams in Genshin. Freeze teams are giga broken if the enemy can be frozen. If the enemies are immune to being frozen, the team is bricked.
Not the same at all. Boothill and fire hill both implement weaknesses, and their best supports only help them with their weakness breaks and in HMC, is great with imaginary break. Even if enemies are immune to break for some time, they’re not permanently immune, only for short period which you can manipulate and counter.
Not to mention that freeze hasn’t been meta for years for a reason, since every boss in floor 12 cannot be frozen which IS hard countered
Theyll bring a support that fixes that....lmao
I mean technically but every boss that can do this besides Sam can get their weakness broken before locking toughness bar, and I’ve been instantly killed that way…
And this has been tested with FF and BH in the right teams with the right speed tuning, you can break every boss before they lock themselves.
even in Genshin these teams still viable as we have Shenhe + Furina to brute force through enemies that cannot be frozen
@@memesix5440 And what stops Hoyo from putting in a bunch of enemies/bosses that are permanently immune to break in the game??? Nothing.
Remember how strong Venti was in 1.0??? Hoyo just made a bunch of enemies who are immune to Venti ult and called it a day. Literally nothing stopping Hoyo from making a bunch of permanently-break-immune enemies and bosses if they felt like Break teams are too strong and they want to sell a new archetype.
So it's basically Hyperbloom where you build up one team uber quick to allow you the room to build a second team on the side as you go, since you still have a team that can clear content.
This was my initial take as well. Was wondering if anyone else caught it
Also, the damage scales with level and an otherwise mostly useless stat, just like dendro reactions.
I just like break characters because, they can BREAK of course.
okay cyno
"The strongest crowd control is death" - Vars II, 2024
Now I just need a second or third Fall of an Aeon for all these DPS units. I know I can swap LC's around but not in MOC or PF team modes where you need 2 or 3 dps at the same time. Also, as a Kafka haver, I'm glad that the dot powercreep calmed down after black swan, although I still want an aoe-bleed nihility eventually.
1.31 Funnily enough, 2.3 added toughness numbers to in-game attack descriptions, but show a different numbering system than the 15/30/60/90 scale normally used.
(In-game values use a baseline unit of 10 toughness as opposed to 30 for basics, so it appears all the values are just cut in 3)
Im actually really happy- Firefly is great, but Boothill still does more damage. I was worried she'd powercreep too hard, but its honestly more like the fua situation. You have one team, the aoe team, and then another team, the hunt/single target team.
Not to mention people have been running them both in dual dps team 😭
You're everywhere
i call bs.. she is broken beyond belief.. acheron looks normal now because of how strong Firefly is. She breaks quite easily and has a damn near spammable ult like its a technique.
@@mangshu21 I'm not saying she's bad? Acheron is still objectively better
@mangshu21 Yeah no. Acheron is still better by a landslide. Firefly at least has weaknesses, Acheron still has none and I don't think she ever will. She does literally everything.
@@HazZzel-Damage wise Firefly eclipses Acherons max potential by miles
what makes her so good is that her team utilises super break to its full potential, with firefly's insane speed, harmony trailblazer's super break, ruan mei's weakness efficiency and delay and gallagher's break dmg buff
More like Break Vulnerability
@@tamajimaishida8533 a buff nonetheless
@@RaidenDisNots Nope a buff is different from a modifier
@@tamajimaishida8533 does it increase damage? Yes. Literally no one cares
@@tamajimaishida8533 um actually 🤓☝
Break Effect or Damage playstyle is likely going to get a similar length of relevance to the big 3 before (Blade, DHIL, and Jingliu). Though I feel like unlike DoT or FuA, it's somewhat more manageable to hold back by at least making enemies immune to delay being toughness broken for a time such as with shields, barriers, or just locking out type weaknesses. There's already those bosses like Gepard, the Ambrosial Deer, Yanqing, Argenti (with the summon), and the annoying robot traffic light, which may be the way Break Damage falls behind in the future if more units like those get released. In a way, the playstyle and teams is likely meant to both encourage players to build these teams while also exploring others should those units appear. And overall it's a step in the right direction for playstyle diversity and building multiple teams when you need certain teams to defeat certain enemies.
To be fair though, I do like this playstyle because Break Effect was kind of the stat that people (outside of Ruan Mei users) that just fell out of people's minds before Super Break was introduced with Harmony MC. Super Break and Break Damage playstyle just filled a gap in damage dealing that's been there for a while but there's been not many units making use of it.
Both Firefly and Boothill break EXTREMELY fast that it isn't a big issue. It's also worth noting that Break Supports are nearly non-existent, with the exception of Ruan Mei and Harmony MC, to some degree any unit with a Defense Debuff or Invulnerability. A healthy way to "prevent" Break damage from being overly broken would be through mechanics like Gepard where they are damage-gated. Protection from weakness breaks in general are quite annoying, especially with the Aurumatron mob. Weakness Break in general is a decent mechanic, although it is quite annoying when it outright gets removed. You are already more or less incentivized to actually build multiple teams, but I do think it's really important to consider relics make up for almost 50% of a character imo. So building characters are usually easier said than done, specifically with DPS' cases since Supports are usually future-proofed almost all the time.
DoT imo can be very easily dealt with if they add DoT immunity or debuff immunity as it's the only playstyle that heavily relies on debuffing the opponent. It would be very unhealthy imo since I do believe that gameplay should be instead worked around with instead of being forced to do something else completely. Which, again, Gepard mechanic does quite well.
For me it's win I wanted to pull ruan mei as I don't have any limited 5 star support.
I got her, then pulled FF and got her too.
Harmony TB is free.
It's like I just used measly 60 tickets for current meta character so that's not a lot.
Bro I lowkey forgot Hook even existed until I saw her at the end of the video.
Just to clarify, Break DMG is dependent on character Type, but Super Break does not care for types whatsoever. That's why Harmony Trailblazer (Imaginary, the weakest Break DMG type) can hit like a speeding truck. So we can realistically have effective Super Breakers of any element.
I love Break playstyle, been enjoying this strategy since the game released too. I'm kinda worried about the future of Break meta though, since I can't imagine many reasons to get a different Break DPS character after Firefly, who can brute force Fire Weakness into anything.
Harmony MC is like the dendro of HSR. Enabling "hyperbloom" for every characters basically with EM = break effects.
I was waiting for today's video, as a loyal FUA user, Break damage is the only other niche mechanic that I find enjoyable to try. Good luck for your 2.3 pulls everyone!
Yunli yeah 😊
Hello fellow FUA loyalist looking to dabble in the break damage waters. I am curious on your thoughts after watching this video. Do you think you may spend some of your resources on testing out break effect or do you think you will keep spending your jades to strengthen and expand your FUA empire? I know I have been in a debate on picking up key break supports or to keep funneling my topaz /build a second dedicated follow up team.
@@ahoboinacan Speaking only from my point of view, I'm as stacked as I can be for FUA characters, I'm only waiting for Aventurine's rerun but since that will take a while I don't have much more to do with my FUA characters and teams, so I was looking at other archetypes and Break looks like the most accessible and F2P friendly (I don't have most 5 stars hypercarries and I missed Kafka's banner for my DOT team) so I'm definitely excited to try something new. Break is on the rise and it's to our advantage to use the meta since the game will revolve around that for at least a version or two
Im honestly gonna have to pass on Firefly, firstly because I dont have Ruan Mei and I dont have enough jades for that (just pulled Fu Xuan + Signature LC on previous banner) but also because I saw Yunli’s gameplay this morning and I just cant help but love a small girl wielding a sword bigger than her, plus as a Clara enjoyer I love me my counter attack gameplay.
If anything this is exactly how Break should have been from the beginning, the original break is not worth the time or effort to build around and Break Effect % isn't a real stat.
Break damage only happen when the target is broken means that you need a lot of planning to make sure your break character hits at the correct time. And although you get an 11% damage boost after breaking, you still need a crit dps to actually take advantage of that, which means the break character should be a support but most support wants energy rope over BE%. Silver Wolf is quite literally the only character to take advantage of all these traits (also because Quantum Break deals a shit ton of damage) and maybe break Welt for some no-sustain shenanigans.
Ruan Mei is the first break scaling support, but weirdly enough she does zero break damage because of her Ice element, and has anti-synergy with normal weakness break since her delay also stop you from reapplying weakness break damage, she just happened to work so well with every single team archetype in the game due to how strong her buffs are.
Boothill's LC on Sushang (with E4) is so OP. Pure break build with speed and defensive stats. Bring Luka, Ruan Mei, HMC.
Sushang breaks and Luka procs the break bleed and skill bleed. With E6 Luka, you can deal out 1mil+ damage in the first team rotation.
11:05 who lied to this man ?
Firefly litteraly does 0 damage if the enemy isn't broken. I think you ment to say boothill, he does a little bit of damage even when enemy isn't broken.
he’s just a firefly fan that’s what they all do
he made an errata in the pinned comment
I like to imagine how all the characters break it’s like bane breaking Batman’s back except they can only break by element and what not but xueyi and Acheron are can do all types and firefly and boothill just break with everything they got
11:38 great analysis of different types teams / their weaknesses
Since Boothill is my first and likely will be my only 5* DPS for a long time (I'm saving up for supports and sustains), yeah, big damage numbers go brrr. Bronya makes that double the brrrr's per turn too.
I'd dare say they're underrated, i've seen people downplay them because enemies need to be broken first and thats bad for 0 cycles.
Meanwhile Boothill and Firefly are easily around the level of Acheron as DPS and because of how break and Ruan Mei (One of their best supports) works they do their damage much safer than other DPS/Team comps do since enemies can't attack while broken.
Add to that the fact that they have element advantage over every single enemy and how F2P friendly they are when it comes to lightcones, not to mention the huge untapped potential if they ever release a summonable super break enabler to use alongside Hatblazer (Since Super Break stacks) and i'd say they're not given quite as much credit as they deserve.
Excuse me but...Boothill and FF are f2p friendly when it comes to LC? Boothill, of all people? Who needs his LC cus it is the only Hunt one with BE stat? FF who’s next best option is Aeon, a generic Atk buff LC?
Nah, both of them are very reliant on their sig LC
And neither of them are near Acheron’s dps output
Boothill is ST focused and his highest dmg comes from breaking the enemies
FF is more group focused, her ST is not that high and does peanut dmg against non broken enemies
They are both very strong in their playstyles but won’t compete with Acheron who covers all of those things with ease and even ignores tougness gauge alltogether with her ult
@@AkumaItachi 1. Neither of them are "reliant on their sig LC"
Both of their second best LC's are F2P.
2. You clearly haven't seen Firefly's kit if you think that "generic atk buff LC" isn't good for her.
3. If anyone is reliant on their Sig LC its Acheron, the best f2p option she has is Fermata.
The difference between Acheron's Sig LC and her best F2P option is far larger than the difference between Firefly or Boothil's.
4. Boothill and Firefly apply their own element as a weakness, they will work on literally any enemy that you can break and their full potential is still up in the air because we only have one Super Break Enabler right now which is Hatblazer.
And STILL both Boothil and Firefly perform equal to or beyond Acheron's level.
Acheron is not in a league of her own anymore, just a fact 🤷♂
@@arcadius3257 I never said it is not good on her, just saying that it is a basic choice cus there's not much choice otherwise
Yes, Acheron is as well, a lot of characters in HSR are, that's how they make money
I know they can, that's why i said that they are very strong in their respective playstyles, Acheron doesn't need to break enemies to do insane dmg
They do not tho, Boothill's dmg is great but not as consistent or as high and FF does good dmg against groups of broken enemies but she needs to get to that point first and her ST dmg is not even comparable to Acheron's
They are both very strong but they are not equal or beyond Acheron, at least now
They might get a 5* break support, Lingsha maybe, but Acheron is getting Jiaoqiu in 2.4 and his support for her is insane
@@AkumaItachi 1. There doesn't need to be "much choice" its her second best LC and its fully f2p 🤦♂️
2. No, not "as well" Acheron is reliant on her signature LC and Boothil and Firefly aren't, its that simple.
3. Because Acheron is not a break unit, shes enabled by debuffs, the fact of the matter remains that both Boothill and Firefly are comfortable on the same level and are more consistent then Acheron is...especially without the signature LC.
4. Both of these statements are false, boothills damage is so high that him being a ST dps is made irrelevant by it unless you're up against 4 or more enemies and Firefly literally rips through elites and bosses.
They ARE equal to Acheron and Firefly is arguable just better for most encounters.
5. Jiaoqiu already got changed again and is going to experience more changes before he releases and even the best state of what he does doesn't even come close to what a second super break enabler would do for boothill and especially firefly since 74% of her damage is enabled by hatblazer.
They are as f2p friendly as you can get guaranteed dmg no having to farm weeks or months for crit ratio just to still not crit. in Firefly case you only really need to lvl her ult traces to do a lot of dmg. Most of their best supports are 4 stars or standrad 5 star in the case of Boothill.
They don't even need to have a lightcone equipped to do a lot of dmg but they have good f2p options Aeon of the Fall and Adversarial for Firefly and Boothill respectively.
Firefly scales of atk, thats true but she doesnt do any dmg with her non breaks. shes basicly gloryfied hmc dispenser unlike boothill
She is harder to build attack for due to her lower attack stats and even though she can do some damage while the enemies aren’t broken, it’s hilarious how much more damage she does when they are. Her attack really serves just as another way to get more break effect.
Until recently Break Weakness was an almost dead mechanic, with the only character that took advantage of it being a 4 Star that no one uses.
So to push this new META and motivate the playerbase to go after characters like Boothill and Firefly, the game is heavily favoring Break Characters in all aspects (Game Modes, Enemies, Bosses, etc...) but as soon as the favoritism ends and the next new thing starts to get attention they won't necessarily get worse but they will definitely see a drop in effectiveness
I'd like to make a small PSA because of one thing you mentioned. At 7:20 you mention her being a hybrid scaler that can build "crit stats and Break Effect". For the love of God, DO NOT BUILD CRIT ON HER. Attack is beneficial, since it converts into more BE, but the crit stats are wasted, especially since Break damage CANNOT crit. The correct stats to build on Firefly are BE, Atk and Speed, since all of these contribute in some way (BE because that's how she deals most of her damage, Atk because it converts into more BE, and Speed so she can more quickly activate her Ultimate and also so she can act more times within her Ultimate (btw, Firefly gains a flat 60 SPD when she ults, so if you get her to 150 SPD outside of ult, she'll have 210, which is just enough for her to attack 4 times in 1 ult)).
correection, firefly non break damage is absolute dogshit, and because he doesn't build crit at all is even more dogshit, boothill non break damage while still low it's still miles ahead whatever firefly does
I feel like harmony gallagher, Mc plus RM creates a type of hyperbloom. Throw in any 4th character and they are now a super break dps.
7:18 Aren’t Crit states unimportant to Firefly since a good chunk of her damage comes from Super Break and doing Break Damage?
Correct. She has almost 0 damage from crit
If you're reliant on your Breaking and plan to mostly use her on an SB-based team, then yeah it basically won't matter. If you have 5⭐ pieces lying around w Atk% subs then you can throw those on her
She doesn't even do dmg. A max of 30% of the dmg she deals is her own. Closer to 20-25% even. HMC is the one nuking with super break.
The only way I see Crit Rate Firefly making sense is if you wanted to do the Cavity System Model cheese in the SU. But you can already do that with any DPS
@@Safineyayes and no. Harmony MC provides the super break that had a good damage ratio. Firefly is the best unit to abuse that damage ratio. They are very synergistic units.
As Firefly says "I shall set the seas ablaze" and with her kit leveled up, she means it. Plus, she is adorable and i love her
I guess you could say that toughness gauges…
….Make or break them.
This is like asking is Hyperbloom overpowered or overrated, the answer is obvious lol
But always love to here the discussion in detail
for casuals overpowered, once you have at least some good C2 or C1 (Fontaine level character) is just overrated, this is why people don't speedrun with Alhaitham or Keqing in higher levels of investiment.
It's low investment to get to a point where your damage rivals a decently invested DPS, but once you really invest into a DPS, hyperbloom isn't all that good in comparison (I only play hyperbloom in overworld for my afk E team)
So the answer is: both. I've never run hyperbloom because I had dpses built before dendro came out and I was so confused on why people kept saying hyperbloom was amazing because it seemed like a dps loss to me, and then I started an alt account and realized that hyperbloom is the easiest way to erase everything on the map with 3* artifacts
I don't think she's anywhere near Acheron's level of insanity. Acheron just beats everything with no effort and is brain dead af to use. Firefly, however, as you stated, does have weaknesses. Enemies that you can't break until certain conditions are met being the perfect example of that.
Have been an OG Break Player since 1.0 as a Sushang main so I welcome all this new break emphasis
Break meta is basically HSR's hyperbloom. It'll be incredibly broken and easy to build, but also has a glaring weakness through enemies who lock their toughness bar. It's another way to play the game and should be welcomed
But enemies never lock their toughness bar forever, and FF has shown (in leaks) to shred them nearly instantly the moment the lock is gone. And this is on top of this "counter" also countering every other dps.
If they truly want to stop Break teams, they need to introduce an enemy with either innate Break dmg resistance or permanently lock their weakness. The latter of which makes the game unfun for everyone.
You can see Boothill 0 cycle clears against SAM, a boss that locks their toughness bar right at the gate. The moment it's unlocked, it's pretty much over for SAM.
Honestly I would say that Xueyi is a surprisingly reliable 4 star dps unit in a break dmg team especially since her ult doesn’t care about types and if you have her E2 neither does her fua. She’s surprisingly fun and is my current pick for my 2 good teams, the other being a Jingliu double sustain team using Gepard and Lynx alongside Pela. I would say that my current account isn’t half bad though point I wanted to make was: it’s not too hard to do a break team since you get a must support for free, your sustain is a 4 star, your dps can be one too and your other support can be many different units if you don’t have Ruan Mei so it’s not that innaccessible you just have to deal with many gimmicks that most won’t
Hey Jinli, great video btw. Just also wanted to point out another downside of the break teams is how restrictive they are with team building. As of right now, if you want to run Firefly, she MUST be run with HMC (Harmony Main Character) and Ruan Mei, non-negotiable. Similar to the IPC follow-up team, where the performance drops if one member is CC'd, FF does like 40-50% dmg w/o HMC's buff and has significantly less break efficiency w/o Ruan Mei's skill. This will probably be alleviated further down the line as more units are released, but as of now, if newer players are trying to get Firefly w/o Ruan Mei, they are in for a bit of disappointment.
Restrictive team building really
Means nothing in a game where there is no playstyle variation you just plug the charxters in and press auto
Firefly having a super fixed team of three supports is amazing as she doesn’t share them with others
Firefly doesn't need indelible promise if you don't have her signature. On the Fall of an Aeon is very good on her because she can convert attack into break effect. Unfortunately, it's also good on most other destruction units because it just gives a buttload of attack.
the audio wasnt super clear this time, try fix it
Also many bosses have phases, where their tuffness, cant be lowered
FUA > Break
Harmony Trailblazer is the carry of break teams
For basically every break dps but boothill yes. Rather than making harmony mc a break damage buffer, they give everybody the ability to do super break at over 100% effectiveness, and firefly's own kit takes a massive loss in damage because mc's super break is so strong they have to keep firefly herself weak in order for it to be "balanced"
@@risusama The could've just made different SB sources not stack. Then they could've adjusted FF to a satisfying level without HMC (who actually gives SB at 120-160% effectiveness, depending on amount of enemies), without breaking the game when they're together (and maybe even a future SB support to further stack SB)
robin sparkle huohuo aventurine bronya pela and tingyun are the carries of every other team
ruan mei is the carry of both
So after the Break meta, what meta will be next?
Counter meta.
@@blindaim Isn’t that just another form of FuA?
@@apleb7605 Superbreak is just another form of break too. Up to Dev creativity.
@@blindaim I never said it wasn’t. Heck I would even say break teams weren’t a thing before superbreak.
The summon meta consisting of units that have their own summons like Jing yuan and lightning lord
I've never really seen it as powercreep more than hoyo just generally expanding the variety of available teams and playstyles available in the game. Nihility meta happened because Nihility just so happened to get all the pieces to build a meta defining team first, but now we have dot teams, acheron debuff teams, the IPC FUA team, any hypercarry setup, and now break teams. Yes, acheron may be the best overall dps in the game, but it's not like the gap is so wide that you can't still absolutely destroy MoC 12 and the various other endgame modes with kafka, or Jingliu, or DHIL, or the FUA team. To me personally it feels like hoyo have been letting us choose what type of teams we want to focus on with the new releases. Want FUA? boom, here's aventurine followed by a topaz rerun and the robin that ties it all together. Want to dip into break? Well here's a ruan mei and gallagher rerun with a free HMC that synergizes extremely well with break teams, and we'll let you complete the puzzle by choosing whether you want boothill or firefly as your main break dps due to how flexible the role is. I fully expect more characters that support acheron/dot teams to come out in the next few patches, or have current characters used in those teams rerun, which is great, because the people that want to play that archetype can pull on those banners, while I get to pull on the break banners, and neither group feels like they're completely missing out and HAVE to pull on every banner.
I think having all these availble teams is making people even more likely to feel like they have to pull on every banner. The content usually favor one playstyle over the other based on who is on banner on time and make it really annoying for other characters to do. Right now they are favoring break and people without a break dps or on element dps in general will be suffering in Apocayptic Shadow. The DOT favored PF same thing it now encourage you to invest in DOT.
Overall it seem like you want to have coverage for all the archetypes they introduce or you will have a hard time. Of course you can still complete the content without the favored playstyle it will just require more than average investment. Sometimes you may need to fall back on the brute force hypercarry playstyle. Next couple characters don't look to be changing things up much so thats a god send honestly we have too many gamechangers almost back to back to back.
You must have noticed the damage difference. It's one thing to have other damage type teams but if they deal a lot more damage that's power creep.
@@eszterfodor1136 it is factually power creep, but it's harmless if it doesn't impact the gameplay. Having bigger damage numbers doesn't matter if your enemies don't have healthbars that require so much damage. If you needed new units because regardless of investment you will never do enough to clear, that's harmful power creep.
@@doublereel-real More investment is hidden behind rng and gacha in this game so if content is favoring one playstyle or character over the other and you have to get better relics or eidolons or lightcone to keep up with old characters that is harmful powercreep.
Just look at Jingyuan and Blade they are near unviable right now without signature lightcones and premium supports. You need cracked relics with their Signatures lightcones and Sparkle with signature lightcones just to match E0S0 Acheron hypercarry or IPC followup or DOT or Firefly Superbreak. Even Jingliu is falling off without sig lightcone and eidolons just not to the point of Jingyuan and Blade.
High investment is viable for high spenders but for f2p they could be missing out on months of good characters just to get their old unit decent and not have to crit fish for wins all the time.
Dangerous cope, it’s designed to make you feel like you’re missing out.
I can't even "just pull for your favorite characters" in this game anymore. Every update they introduce stronger characters that are almost always required to finish MoC easily. I'm so tired of this, no one uses Jing Yuan or Seele as much anymore.. I want to pull for Ruan Mei, but then everyone says firefly is a must pull.. Lose 50/50, goes to hard pity, and next patch someone else would overpower them again. I used to enjoy playing this game
that's your problem
Play according to what you want, not anyone else
@rajasatria4379 ik🥲 no matter who i pull people keep asking why i pull for this or that, why didn't you just get this. Im so tired
@@elliQazif they tell you that you pulled for the wrong character, theyre the ones in the wrong. Just pull for whoever you like and have fun with them, you don’t have to all clear moc every time
That’s why I never do MoC unless I’m desperate for jades(flashback to DHIL rerun). I pull for characters I want or have set my goal to getting that character, I just do trailblaze quests, I don’t let meta say what I should pull(although I did just pull for Ruan Mei. I wouldn’t have really cared if I lost 50/50, as long as it wasn’t Yanqing or Bailu.😅Thenagain, I’m F2P)
True.
Vars sounds like that guy you beat that shit out of, bullied, picked on in High School, but now you respect him massively and feel bad for all the names you called him. Much love Vars great video.
Ngl, I've played this game for over a year and the name of the this game is Power-Creep. I've learned to pull for who I like versus who "does the damage!" I'm not pulling for Firefly cuz I don't like her nearly as much as everyone else seems to. I also am not a fan of the Superbreak Meta that came literally came out of nowhere. I'm sticking with my DoTs and Follow-ups.
I just like that we didn't have to add a completely new mechanic to have new teams AND that the mc is good for it
I think they are adding new game play. Accheron not out of date and dot team still work in all scenarios.
Also all DPS can become break dps especially with the new relic set, coming out.
Fireflys Break stat was so high she Broke the meta
I really want to see break team getting more developed. Since break and toughness it the cream and butter of Hsr like how elemental reaction affect Genshin
i have no thoughts about anything meta with genshin or star rail. all i can say is: i love having gallagher in my team. super break with harmony mc turned my gallagher into a sub dps which is even more insanely better, and im currently having a fun time with harmony mc, gallagher, boothill and a character of choice (i like pela cause the dmg number of my boothill goes up even higher).
i still enjoy DoT the most in star rail. my favorite team is acheron, black swan, pela, gallagher. although now hearing that Jiaoqiu will come out in the future, i have a character to look forward to again. guinaifen kinda didnt do the fire DoT that i wanted, or i just dont understand her enough, but im really looking forward to fire DoT. everything else is a skip until then. i didnt mean to get boothill either, but i didnt have any character upcoming that i was looking forward to, so i did some random pulls and got him early. and im having unexpected fun with him. i guess thats all that counts. ^^
Don't have Firefly, She is super strong but I don't like her Playstyle.
Excited for what Hunt MC gonna brings to the game
I think follow up teams actually prefer zvarog. Yes, on one hand, you get screwed no matter who he takes, but losing topaz in a fua team isnt as bad as losing acheron or dhil in their teams. So fua is basically the low risk low reward option. I think fua teams get hurt by enemies with a mechanic that encourages big bursts of dmg instead of a constant flurry (cannot think of any examples rn)
they could make enemies that have counter hits like the fire dinossaur in penacony, but instead of disabling him after a certain number of hits, they can make so that it gets a shield or higher resistances.
This makes hypercarry teams (that have one big hit) more appealing than FUA (that have a lot of minor hits).
my firefly is killing things before she can make use of my harmony trailblazers ultimate
I mean with super break teams, we now have a good amount of playstyles one can choose and where the devs can create bosses that counteract against those teams. Now i only played games like summoners war and epic7, but their hunting bosses are really interesting, if you don't one shot them at all.
Some counterattack after a certain amount of hits they take and also stun (against fua teams)
Some are immune to crit or debuff or just straight up take less damage until certain conditions are fulfilled (hypercarry/acheron)
Necropolis from sw needs his shield broken, but before he steals one of your units and also heals when attacking (any team realistically, but in this case break).
Break team is just a mechanic that sooner or later needs to be realized.
Oh yeah and Hoyo needs to implement universal lightcones at 3 or 4 stars, that do not boost certain nieches. Give us simple stat bonuses an not these cheeky extra buffs only achievable by specific characters whose kits allows them to activate it every time
Yeah yeah pull Firefly, pull Ruan Mei, she is gonna carry your account, she will help you clear all content yadayada. And here i am, struggling to pick one because i can't afford both.
Wait I disagree with firefly and her LC, she gains BE from attack so the herta LC works amazingly fine for her.
Genshin has characters that fit into the meta, star rail characters make their own meta
You should do a video about how Hoyo have painted themselves into a design corner with their three DPS paths due to how Destruction > Hunt/Erudition.
Stellar balance XD
The only thing that would nerf break characters would be enemies that lock their weaknesses like a trotter escaping or SAM, I wouldn't be surprised if they release an enemy or a boss even that cannot have their weakness broken in the future.
Idk man, the latest moc and as have been favoring break and giving all the buffs with be, of course firefly will be cracked, but somehow my 120 crit damage qq can still 4 cycle argenti off-element without the need of the trotter buff at all, and that's with qq, an optimum mono qua run with seele will achieve around 3 cycles (literally the 1st dps), imo the powercreep is still healthy.
Follow Up Attacks used to be "gimmicks." and Topaz ultimately felt like a weird character to pull for. Now? They're a proper archetypes.
Super Break/Break Characters are gonna be the same.
Hoyo has everything to gain by constantly making new archetypes for people to pull into, while also diversifying game options/team viabilities.
We finally got full DOT, Break, and Followup teams after those mechanics been in the game since day one. Don't know where they go from here though and the next few characters look to fit into these archetypes as well.
break dmg is like max hp% true dmg, 3 hits to break the enemy and they are basically dead
I am very, very underleveled with 4star teams and I literally survive with sustain+break dmg
I mean, break teams only need break effect and SPD. Therefore, they can use 3 star cones effectively. Hunt characters can use Adversarial for a massive SPD boost for example. More SPD = more breaking of bones and ablazing of seas.
The insane powercreep of the game is honestly killing it for me, especially in regards to the events/endgame content. It's becoming so ridiculously challenging that it's actively unfun to play. If you don't have the new meta defining character of the patch, you will fail. All of these damn specific checks within the game is just frustrating. I wanna win with my favorites, not follow a hivemind of going with 'meta picks' just to stand a chance.
1:29
Not to be an "acktually 🤓", I ask this as a genuine question : didn't HSR change the value to be 1 segment of Toughness equal to a value of 10, since the current version ? With the new toughness reduction value displayed on characters abilities, we see "10" on basic attacks of most characters now, that's why I'm a bit confused.
If so, do we know why they changed from 1 segment = 30 to 1 segment = 10 ?
You like break meta because it's overpowered.
I like break meta because I can spam Stelle.
We are not the same
I absolutely love the way niches are implemented in this game. I believe the amount you invest in one niche is well rewarded, because the mechanics focused on each niche is very specific, making it easier for you to invest on the exact stats you need and for hoyoverse to create characters that are perfectly synergistic. For example, a complete premium FUA team (avent + robin + 2 fua dps) can do bosses, MOC and pure fiction almost in disregard of enemy weaknessess, and basically the same can be said about premium DOT teams.
The only problem I see is that you NEED to compromise to that niche, getting a lot of 5☆ chars and signature LCs.
I believe that these same rules will apply to break.
I also think we need to need to talk about characters that apply Elemental Weakness and how broken this actually this given nost of these character are break units it adds even more in morotance to their power potential and the meta. I think in a game were the funadamentasl rely on having different units for each element Elemental weakness application trivializeds the game foundation (not in a good or bad way just in a broken way.)
Well, if said characters didn't have the way to implant those weaknesses unto enemies, they would just feel extremely bad to play if you were fighting enemies that don't have their weakness type.
And if there's no specific mechanic to punish you because you didn't bring the specific weakness of the boss then making characters that get punished by that would be horrible game design
Uh, the punishment is that the enemy has permanent 20% damage reduction to the fake implanted weakness
@@cinder3la999 "they would feel bad to play if you were fighting enemies that dont have their weakness type" uh yeah, thats the poinT? Having characters who can implant weakness single handedly basically for free (Firefly duh) breaks the game and ensures firefly is a must pick that can tack ANY content single handedly. The only good implementations of weakness implant are boothill (its temporary and on one target) and Silver Wolf (same deal) or Acheron who can ignore weakness with her ult. Firefly gets weakness implant AND also ignores weaknesses anyways,, is able to consistently and easily get her OP ult and is directly buffed by HMC to a ridiculous degree. Granted I love firefly but I know im going to take her into any and all content simply because she is the best pick
Given that the strongest Break Team utilizes one free character (HMC) and one 4* character (Gallagher), it can be argued that pulling Boothill/Firefly is buying into a meta at a low price, with the possibility for stonks to rise. And “low price” arguably applies to Ruan Mei as well, since players should probably try to have Ruan Mei anyway as a multi-purpose support. This is in contrast to FUA, where one of the most crucial characters, Topaz, cannot work anywhere else but FUA.
It’s unlikely that one of the best teams in the game will always rely on HMC and Gallagher, and the devs could very well release limited 5* characters that can replace both of them. HMC (a free character) already increases Firefly’s Super Break damage by almost 5x. Now imagine what a limited 5* version of HMC could do. And a similar kind of upgrade from Gallagher is likely in the future.
So if there is any compelling reason to pull Firefly and Ruan Mei with v2.3, this banner might be the closest that the HSR meta has gotten to a “buy the dip” opportunity.
In the early days, break damage is incredibly niche, as one problem of break damage is that there is a cool down of break damage before enemies recovers, and building BE means you are forgoing other stats such as crits and attack
I mean and your point? BE characters don’t need Crit stats and Attack for the most part.
As for it being Niche not really breaking opponents has been a thing since day one they just made a team to make that into
A relevant form of damage.
Also if you built your team right the moment an opponent breaks they’re dead They won’t get a chance to recover.
@@The_CodFish69 the only characters that can work with break at that time is Luka, sushang and Asta, they don’t even have ruan Mei
even with ruan mek, how the hell are break suppose to stand up against the destruction meta at that time? enemies were dead way before their toughness gauge falls to 0
In follow up video i said "When firefly release i want to see Var discuss break DPS and Super break as a whole and is it good or niche or bad" and finally in this day he cover it 🤣🤣🤣
I got e1 Firelfy and her light cone (save so a bunch) so I am happy to say she is busted with Harmony MC and Ruan Mei.
Fields is Honkai golden girl who they clearly love and the fandom so it only makes sense where playable character is super busted! I mean she is sickly the MC wiafu/ship!
Unpopular (probably not) opinion is: Break teams are Genshin's Elemental Mastery teams of HSR, everyone's gonna forget about crit teams cuz they begin seeing more numbers and more dmg
Firefly has 0 dmg outside of break, she is literally useless if you cant break the enemy, like her enhanced skill does like 7k dmg on a trotter that cant be broken
unrelated, but I find it funny how the two break related DPS’s are very heavily simped for/have a lot of fans
I'm pretty sure we'll see more enemies and be immune to toughness bar damage like the gorilla.
3:01 that 8 damage though😏😳
thanks for making me pull for Ruan Mei back then
I want firefly so badly
so boothill it like the bootleg version of firefly, true break carry
The good thing about break effect meta lately is that, you dont even need to invest on crit since its verg easy to get break effect nowadays, but seeing Firefly's kit because she needed speed then it would be pretty hard to invest her.
To be honest this is just the same, in the end crit and BE is just a substats. In a bad roll, you can waste 1000++ energy and not get a single BE substats, they do exists in set effect but in the end you need to get higher BE for BE centered units. (Just like how Crit DPS needs high CDMG to deal decent damage).
@@ValentinoNicko Wrong, actually. Break effect is objectively easier to build. Cause for crits, you need two stats, at least.
@@nemasisdemarini8339 then isnt it mathematically easier to get crit substats because you can roll to any of the crit stats vs. you need to exactly roll for BE? 😅
@@ValentinoNicko Crit substat has the lowest drop rates in the game, whereas BE is higher.
For Firefly, she looks for BE, SPD, and ATK. Two of them are pretty common stats. Then Boothill looks for BE and SPD.
@@ValentinoNickothe difference is that you need a balance of both stats
also you have to take in account substat chances, crit stats are less common compared to break
It’s crazy that we’re just a year into the game and we already have characters capable of destroying planets, I wonder if by next year we’ll have characters capable of destroying solar systems or galaxies