You can apply them in so many ways. Being so compact, I have turned it into a literal "Pocket PC". Paired with a wireless keyboard and trackpad mouse combo - all you need is a power socket and screen with HDMI cable - then work away. I'll see what else I can upgrade on here but thus far I am quite impressed with the performance. Talking emulation - where was this back in my youth - it would have been perfect to lug around to a mates place for some LAN battles haha. Trade in the 10GbE NIC and you might be able to get a half decent Quadro GPU in there.
The project ran into a few slight snags - I "forgot" the root password to my Proxmox account - or more likely I entered it incorrectly during setup. I finally got back in on the system (although I am certain it wound up accepting the "right" password despite failing over and over), but then it didn't want to talk to my network so I haven't been able to get back into the GUI. I may need to restart with a clean Proxmox installation (after getting several VMs set up) but I have some footage at least. I did use a cheap Goldenfir SSD for the Proxmox installation - but I don't think I can blame that just yet. Highly experimental build on cheap AliExpress hardware - what could go wrong? If this keeps up it's sure to be an entertaining Part 2 lol.
Very cool build. that sideways pcie riser is so cool for these! dual 10gbps is pretty sleek.... Then the original slot too! Kinda bummed i got the m910q on ebay. i have 3 now, but maybe i'll sell one and upgrade to this model purely for what you have done here or an expansion pcie sata connectors for more data from 3.5 or 2.5 drives externally. Because that would be pretty sweet having the power and compactness of the mini pc mixed with a DAS of some sort. Very cool!
The M910Q is also quite useful, but yes, the M920Q or M920X (dual M.2 NVMe model) are the better offerings. Don't discount the newer generation of Mini PCs either - like the M90q and P340. I am busy editing the follow-up video where I am testing out several ways to get more storage connected to this system (USB 3.0 / USB type C, PCIe, M.2 M-key, M.2 E-Key, Mini PCIe - you name it - I have tried it!). I plan to run 6x 1TB SSDs in a RAID 5 pool via Proxmox and TrueNAS Core. It's worked out well. I need to still hook up my Noctua cooling solution but otherwise it's ready for service as a DIY NAS with 10GbE networking. I also have it hooked up with a USB monitor and Bluetooth keyboard. It's a versatile little system.
Between the big 3 OEM PC manufacturers (dell, hp, and Lenovo) Lenovo definitely makes the best miniPC. they all have a 1L offering like this but Lenovo is the only one that offers one with a pcie slot, it might need a proprietary adapter but those are cheap. Another big advantage of these lenovos, is that they use the same charger as their laptops, so if you end up changing the cpu to something with a higher wattage and add in a pcie card you can actually power it by getting a higher wattage lenovo laptop charger. Unlike the HP elitedesk mini and Dell Optiplex Micro. I have like 4 of these. I put i7 8700Ts in all of them, 64gb of ddr4, 2 of them I put intel arc A310 sparkle eco half height single slot gpus in them, the other two have 4 port intel x550-t4 10gb NICs in them. I took some coolers off some old Nvidia Quadro k400 gpus and modded them to fit them onto my 10gb NICs then spliced the wiring into the wiring for the CPU fan. And drilled some holes in the case.
Thank you for your feedback. All I can say is choose your props wisely. lol The channel + helmet idea struck me while sim racing and I stuck with it haha. The helmet has become the channel theme and I use the different colors to sort the purpose of a video with a visual marker (Red = Tutorials, Silver = Reviews, Green = PC Upgrades).
@@racerrrzMate, you've got your videos color-coded? That’s bloody genius, haha. Now that I know what’s going on, it’s actually kinda brilliant, not gonna lie!
@@45KevinR You got me with this one, well played. haha. We all wear a mask to protect who we really are - mine just happens to be a helmet. And I can't help it, I am stubborn. The "day 1 channel planner" said: must plan for a face reveal video - so here we are, counting down to an event I have yet to plan because I dislike schedule planners, and I always leave things to the last minute. Maybe I should record a face reveal now and set it to release on some obscure day in the future haha.
Thank you for your feedback and for the model referral. I haven't been able to find a M920X locally but I imagine they will flood the market once a bunch go off-lease. The dual M.2 slot is fully worth it. I did read about the M920Q being modifiable to gain functionality of the second slot here: www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/11oz3k0/lenovo_m920q_tiny_hardware_mod_for_dual_nvme/ . For the price point the M920Q hit the mark for my needs - it's a potent system for the price point.
@@kizofieva yeah, I saw a modification guide somewhere teach you how to do it. But I am not good at soldering. I wonder if someone can do it for me? :)
I've been running a M720Q, similar if not same machine as the M920q (chipset difference?) for a couple of years now as a pfSense firewall with an Intel i-350 T4, 4 port gigabit card, and an i3-8300T CPU with 8gb of memory and it's been a solid performer that uses very little CPU resources. These generations can also take the 9th gen i9 "T" series CPU (i9-9900T) as well. Lenovo has the M720q, M920q, and P330 in this 8th/9th generation. The P330 tiny has a second m.2 Nvme slot. If you need/want something newer, Lenovo also has the M90q and P340 series with 10/11th gen Intel, or later generations of the M90q/P340 that have the LGA1700 slot for 12+ gen "T" CPUs. I have an early M90q with a i3-10300T as a spare for another pfSense system when mine eventually fails one day. Only the M90q and P340 tiny and above have the internal PCIe riser slot (M70q and M80q do not), and the PCIe risers are not interchangeable with the earlier M720q, M920q, and P330 machines. I let the magic smoke out of my first M90q trying to use my M920q riser in that system, a 125 USD (replacement motherboard) mistake.
Thank you for sharing your experience with these systems. That should give others a nice list of systems to keep in mind. I can't see any measurable difference between the M720Q and M920Q, but I would expect the M920Q to have an edge somewhere (I didn't see anything obvious in my reading). The other model to keep an eye out for is the M920X which has dual M.2 NVMe slots on the PCB (something that can be added to the M920Q with dedication and a steady hand). The newer generation of these Thinkstations are coming down in price and they may well be available for similar prices. The M90q and P340 would be solid choices for the 10GbE NIC upgrade also.
@@racerrrz I have several HP Elitedesk G4 Mini's with i5-8600T cpu's, so the same generation and chipset as your Lenovo M920Q Tiny. All of mine work fine with 64GB of DDR4, despite the specified HP memory limits. I'm guessing yours will work too. ZFS loves lots of RAM!
I think that You can use this internal SATA port for some SATA SSD without external case - only PCB it usually use 1/4 size of whole enclosure. It may fit inside with this extra 10Gb NIC, anyway on SATA SSD put Proxmox, in M.2 slot put 2TB SSD and multiply this setup by 3. After that make cluster with 3x Proxmox host and one Ceph Storage drive on 3x 2TB NVMe. It will bee quite beefy homelab setup for virtualization. Anyway, I must say that You make a damn nice videos with things that I love - hardware quirks :D Keep it up mate!
Thank you for your feedback, much appreciated. That's a good idea actually. The PCB for the SSD is a fraction of the size of the casing. I have alternative plans for that sata cable - I bought a number of adapters that will convert that sata power connection into fan headers - the Mini PC needs some additional cooling and I don't want something cumbersome - it needs to be flush. I had planned to repurpose the wifi M.2 E Key slot for some additional sata ports, but the adapter I ended up with was for mini PCIe - so now I need an adapter (m.2 e key to mini PCIe) for the adapters that I bought (Mini PCIe to dual internal 20-pin USB headers) - six SSDs need to connect - max speed of ~ 166MB/s per SSD via the 1x PCIe 3.0 lane haha. I also want to test out USB NVMe RAID reliability. Then, eventually, expanding into a cluster setup. Proxmox will open up some doors for heavy lifting from the small homelab!
Thank you for the feedback. I have been waiting for my Noctua fan order for what feels like forever. That was the last thing I needed to round off the project (the 10GbE card needs some air flow). I have quite a number of items going into this little system, so yes, you can expect a future video getting this system up and running.
I have a feeling you're going to give yourself thermal issues, and I don't mean the helmet ! Those 10Gb cards were designed for servers in data centers, hence the heatsink, because the server will have fans with a high airflow, in a data center kept cool. The 540/550 gets several watts hotter than the 770. With no active cooling on the nic it's going to get pretty toasty.
Both of those get somewhat hot haha. The 10GbE card will need a dedicated fan for sustained use - especially on the Inspur version (X540-AV2) in the video. Placing a small Noctua fan (NF-A4x10) on the rear of the system could make all the difference. Even the Intel X540-T2 placed in a well cooled PC tower can have issues with overheating (I placed a 120mm fan in my Z440 case swap to get air flow over the PCIe lanes to keep it cool). For some inspiration: forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/lenovo-thinkcentre-thinkstation-tiny-project-tinyminimicro-reference-thread.34925/page-64
I have a heap of items lined up for this Mini PC. Part 2 is in the making - I was a little distracted with another video project for the HP Z8 G4 (video is done - so the Mini PC gets the focus again!).
I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. The M.2 E Key should handle the Edge TPU. The PCIe slot would also give you some flexibility in that regard. Although expensive - I would like to think something like the PCIe AI Accelerator card (e.g. CRL-G116U-P3DF) might even fit in the system - pending clearances. However, there are only 8 electrical lanes available on the PCIe slot.
Thank you. You're just too fast for me because this is exactly what I am working on now! I have this system torn to pieces to see how far I can push it. I plan to connect up 6x SSDs to create a RAID 5 pool managed with Proxmox - with the 10GbE connectivity. The issue I ran into was - what is the best way to expand the number of USB ports? (I am using USB to sata connectors). I tested out more than 10 different methods to expand USB connectivity (I made a post about it here - you may find that of interest: ruclips.net/user/postUgkxpTktM_1qj2u9I6LthX_lHsydedoiG9Vx ). Thus far it has been pure joy to set up the system - Proxmox is even better than I expected. Right now I have several different OS's configured - I just toggle the one I want and use it as needed. My TrueNAS VM has worked better than I expected. I just received the last item I needed in the mail today - so hopefully I can fast track this video a bit. So yes, you can absolutely convert this system to become your home NAS - the question is just how will you do it.
@@racerrrz Many thanks for you answer! Even if I already saw several videos and red some documents about NAS, I know that Unraid, TrueNAS and OMV are OS designed to NAS features howbeit I have to figure out what Proxmox is. Many thanks for your help.
Nice. You'll get that NAS sorted in no time. Proxmox is a hypervisor for managing virtual machines (VM). Think of Proxmox as a user interface to manage other operating systems. You can install any OS, allocate it some hardware power (2 Cores, 4 Cores, 4 GB RAM, 8 GB RAM - you decide!) and then that OS runs in a "virtual sandbox" - plus you can run and manage several of these VM OS's. I use mine for testing purposes - so I can load up Ubunto server or TrueNAS Core and any NAS like functions that I have set up. Once I am done transfering backups to the VM, I can power down the VM and move on to something else - Windows VM to browse RUclips even lol. Come to think of it it's similar to DOSBox etc. where you could run DOS applications inside of Windows etc.
Using different brands can work if you match the CAS latency between them. Ideally you would buy the same brand and the same CAS latency to ensure smooth operation. The HyperX brand of RAM modules (likely a counterfeit of Kingston's Hyper X) have been delivering good service for me so far. I have matched both modules (2x 16GB DDR4 2400 MHz SODIMM; CL14 SDRAM), so no issues there.
Yes you could. The best CPU option is likely the Intel Core i9-9900T (8 Core / 16T/ 4.4GHz Max), but I would recommend having the latest BIOS (before you upgrade), the better 65W CPU heatsink (P/N: 01MN632), and high power PSU if you go for a powerful CPU in this system (e.g. P/N: 4X20E50562; 135W 20V 6.75A PSU brick). This is not essential but it would mean lower operating temperatures and more power for external devices etc.
I had the same issue on my Intel X540-T2's - they were operating at 1.9GbE out of the box and it took some refining to get decent speeds. I'll check up on it in more detail but I presume jumbo frames and TCP checksum will give it a bump. The other issue will be thermals - it might be running into a throttling situation quickly. I am working on Noctua solution for that which will feature in Part 2 of this video series.
@@racerrrz got it, thanks. were you just testing with like ttcp or iperf3 or something or using an application level test like an AMB copy? (the temperature throttling thing feels like a solid potential culprit btw.)
@@0xKruzr That was iPerf3 while transferring to and from my HP Z8 G4 with an Intel X540-T2 (short Cat6a cables) and a Ubiquity Flex-XG 4-port 10GbE switch. Most likely it's heat related given that there is very little air flow in this mini pc. After some refinement I am hopeful to bump it up to at least 8GbE.lol.
@@racerrrz definitely thermals, I have a bunch of these deployed in video editing machines at work and having decent airflow over the card helps a ton. These variants are nearly a decade old, so they get hot as they're technically designed for datacenter situations and also only support 1 and 10gbe, while newer revisions support 2.5 and 5gbe
Hi. Yes, the CPU can be swapped out for an 8th gen or 9th gen Intel T CPU. I included some footage for how to do this in my video: 4:54 For a good list of CPUs you can check here: www.servethehome.com/lenovo-thinkcentre-m920-and-m920q-tiny-guide-and-review/2/
Yes up to a Core i9 9900T and idk about this model but on the ThinkStation P330 Tiny you can also do that upgrade in addition to non-T CPUs the 65W ones but you'll have to sacrifice the dedicated GPU because the P330 Tiny comes with Quadro GPU (either P620 or P1000 which are also upgradable to a RTX A400) but you could have a 65W Core i9 9900 on those if you don't need the GPU and are ok with the Intel UHD, personally I have the Core i9 9900T with a Quadro P1000 and 32GB ram and it's a beast, might do a RTX A400 or AMD RX 6400 (Low Profile) just to have faster graphics.
I feel the urge to do some proper testing on this concept. The cross or X does look promising but you wind up using too much thermal paste. In terms of testing different methods - if you do not control for the volume of thermal paste that's applied between methods the test is flawed. Each method would require the same volume to be able to make an informative comparison on which application method is the best. The testing videos that I have seen do not control for volume and thus most methods give full coverage when excess thermal paste is applied. What I like about the spreader method + blobs is that you use the minimal amount of paste to achieve 100% coverage (pending how well your preferred paste spreads), and adding a few blobs helps reduce the odds of air pockets. Guess I'll add this to the bucket list - I need to back this claim up with a video haha.
I just layout a pattern of 5 dots (center and corners), then don a nitrile glove and use my index finger as the spreader. Lots of control and a nice even coat.
What are your thermals like with the glove spreading? I found the coat ends up a bit thin, but if you place a few dots on afterwards it might just be perfect.
Maybe, for those who don't have skillz, and don't know how to properly spread the the paste with a spreader, then you would be correct. I have have had training from major manufacturers of some very high end computing systems, and I am not speaking just of x86 systems, and the spreader method using a mini-spatula is the best. But as I said, you need skillz, and the average x86 never gets that training.
@@FarrellMcGovern Indeed. I actually found a credit card to work the best (pun not intended). It gives the ability to adjust the pressure applied and has a decent surface area to cover the entire CPU IHS for most applications. To make my life difficult / In the quest to get a nice transparent spreader for the videos - I wind up trimming plastic packaging material to create a see-through spreader. I can't recommend it - the edges were roughed-up and it made life difficult haha. See-through spreader > functional spreader.
Yes, it could create a bit of an inferno in there without some additional cooling. I plan to add a 40mm Nocua fan to help resolve thermal throttling of the NIC. So far so good - it has survived it's testing. CPU temps remained really low and it churned through nominal tasks without issue. The 10GbE is only really going to become an issue once I sort out the storage side of things. I have set up a somewhat fanatical 6x SSDs - all connected with USB cables to create a RAID 5 pool. I plan to run this 24/7 - so it better not spit balls of fire!
I had one of these - maybe not identical, but another "X540" that is almost certainly not really an X540 but something reprogrammed to say it is, and acquired suspiciously cheaply from eBay. It and disabled itself due to thermal throttling before the Proxmox UI was even accessible over the LAN. So, without load, it lasted less than 60 seconds in my system. This was in a big tower base, plenty of airflow, but very low static pressure. Maybe the higher static pressure of these little systems might work a bit better, but I can't imagine this working too well.
For the $20 USD price tag I figured it was worth the test. I actually wanted to try to run and power the 10GbE card from a M.2 NVMe slot (using a riser cable; with external DC power). I managed to rig this to work but I did not attain full function of the card (I estimate my power source was sort on amps). To check if it even works I did test it in a HP Z840 where it gave decent performance in iPerf3 but I did not stress test or attempt to monitor the thermals on it. I would expect heat to limit it's function and without added cooling it may not give reliable service. I hope to test a small 40mm Noctua fan mounted to the exterior of the rear I/O. I have found a sata to 4-pin power cable - so it should be a seamless mod. I'll update on how effective this is on the follow-up video.
@@racerrrz yeah I think m.2 can supply a maximum of 7w or something like that. You could probably get a newer 10Gbe device to run off that, something like an Acquantia AC 113 is very low power and actually reasonably priced for a single port adapter from AliExpress. Might even work with the older AC107, or maybe an X550 (single port). But IIRC a *real* X540 draws more than 7w per port, nevermind two ports, nevermind these fakes which are invariably ancient chips that draw about 20w per port or more. Edit: *AQC* 113 / 107
Nice. I'll look into the AC 113 /107 as a low power 10GbE solution. I should be able to retrieve an Intel X540-T2 out of another system for some testing too. If I can get more than 2GbE between two ports I would be fairly satisfied. Mini PC power limits make it tricky to really push the PCIe power draw but I'll measure the power draw numbers to get an idea of what sort of numbers this cheap 10GbE adapter is pulling.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Almost got a slightly older model of these machines to use as an emulation machine for old games. Very cool machines. 👍
You can apply them in so many ways. Being so compact, I have turned it into a literal "Pocket PC". Paired with a wireless keyboard and trackpad mouse combo - all you need is a power socket and screen with HDMI cable - then work away. I'll see what else I can upgrade on here but thus far I am quite impressed with the performance. Talking emulation - where was this back in my youth - it would have been perfect to lug around to a mates place for some LAN battles haha. Trade in the 10GbE NIC and you might be able to get a half decent Quadro GPU in there.
Love your videos, can't wait for part 2
The project ran into a few slight snags - I "forgot" the root password to my Proxmox account - or more likely I entered it incorrectly during setup. I finally got back in on the system (although I am certain it wound up accepting the "right" password despite failing over and over), but then it didn't want to talk to my network so I haven't been able to get back into the GUI.
I may need to restart with a clean Proxmox installation (after getting several VMs set up) but I have some footage at least. I did use a cheap Goldenfir SSD for the Proxmox installation - but I don't think I can blame that just yet. Highly experimental build on cheap AliExpress hardware - what could go wrong?
If this keeps up it's sure to be an entertaining Part 2 lol.
Very cool build. that sideways pcie riser is so cool for these! dual 10gbps is pretty sleek.... Then the original slot too! Kinda bummed i got the m910q on ebay. i have 3 now, but maybe i'll sell one and upgrade to this model purely for what you have done here or an expansion pcie sata connectors for more data from 3.5 or 2.5 drives externally. Because that would be pretty sweet having the power and compactness of the mini pc mixed with a DAS of some sort. Very cool!
The M910Q is also quite useful, but yes, the M920Q or M920X (dual M.2 NVMe model) are the better offerings. Don't discount the newer generation of Mini PCs either - like the M90q and P340. I am busy editing the follow-up video where I am testing out several ways to get more storage connected to this system (USB 3.0 / USB type C, PCIe, M.2 M-key, M.2 E-Key, Mini PCIe - you name it - I have tried it!). I plan to run 6x 1TB SSDs in a RAID 5 pool via Proxmox and TrueNAS Core. It's worked out well. I need to still hook up my Noctua cooling solution but otherwise it's ready for service as a DIY NAS with 10GbE networking. I also have it hooked up with a USB monitor and Bluetooth keyboard. It's a versatile little system.
Between the big 3 OEM PC manufacturers (dell, hp, and Lenovo) Lenovo definitely makes the best miniPC. they all have a 1L offering like this but Lenovo is the only one that offers one with a pcie slot, it might need a proprietary adapter but those are cheap. Another big advantage of these lenovos, is that they use the same charger as their laptops, so if you end up changing the cpu to something with a higher wattage and add in a pcie card you can actually power it by getting a higher wattage lenovo laptop charger. Unlike the HP elitedesk mini and Dell Optiplex Micro. I have like 4 of these. I put i7 8700Ts in all of them, 64gb of ddr4, 2 of them I put intel arc A310 sparkle eco half height single slot gpus in them, the other two have 4 port intel x550-t4 10gb NICs in them. I took some coolers off some old Nvidia Quadro k400 gpus and modded them to fit them onto my 10gb NICs then spliced the wiring into the wiring for the CPU fan. And drilled some holes in the case.
Mate, I’m loving what you’re doing! Not sure what the go is with the helmet, but I’d love to see your videos without it too.
Thank you for your feedback. All I can say is choose your props wisely. lol
The channel + helmet idea struck me while sim racing and I stuck with it haha. The helmet has become the channel theme and I use the different colors to sort the purpose of a video with a visual marker (Red = Tutorials, Silver = Reviews, Green = PC Upgrades).
@@racerrrzMate, you've got your videos color-coded? That’s bloody genius, haha. Now that I know what’s going on, it’s actually kinda brilliant, not gonna lie!
When you want a RUclips channel, but are in witness protection?
@@45KevinR You got me with this one, well played. haha.
We all wear a mask to protect who we really are - mine just happens to be a helmet.
And I can't help it, I am stubborn. The "day 1 channel planner" said: must plan for a face reveal video - so here we are, counting down to an event I have yet to plan because I dislike schedule planners, and I always leave things to the last minute. Maybe I should record a face reveal now and set it to release on some obscure day in the future haha.
For dual nvme, you need the m920x model. Great video!
Thank you for your feedback and for the model referral. I haven't been able to find a M920X locally but I imagine they will flood the market once a bunch go off-lease. The dual M.2 slot is fully worth it. I did read about the M920Q being modifiable to gain functionality of the second slot here: www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/11oz3k0/lenovo_m920q_tiny_hardware_mod_for_dual_nvme/ . For the price point the M920Q hit the mark for my needs - it's a potent system for the price point.
Strictly speaking, if you're adventurous (read: very good at soldering), you can modify this to have a second nvme.
@@kizofieva yeah, I saw a modification guide somewhere teach you how to do it. But I am not good at soldering. I wonder if someone can do it for me? :)
I've been running a M720Q, similar if not same machine as the M920q (chipset difference?) for a couple of years now as a pfSense firewall with an Intel i-350 T4, 4 port gigabit card, and an i3-8300T CPU with 8gb of memory and it's been a solid performer that uses very little CPU resources. These generations can also take the 9th gen i9 "T" series CPU (i9-9900T) as well.
Lenovo has the M720q, M920q, and P330 in this 8th/9th generation. The P330 tiny has a second m.2 Nvme slot. If you need/want something newer, Lenovo also has the M90q and P340 series with 10/11th gen Intel, or later generations of the M90q/P340 that have the LGA1700 slot for 12+ gen "T" CPUs. I have an early M90q with a i3-10300T as a spare for another pfSense system when mine eventually fails one day. Only the M90q and P340 tiny and above have the internal PCIe riser slot (M70q and M80q do not), and the PCIe risers are not interchangeable with the earlier M720q, M920q, and P330 machines. I let the magic smoke out of my first M90q trying to use my M920q riser in that system, a 125 USD (replacement motherboard) mistake.
Thank you for sharing your experience with these systems. That should give others a nice list of systems to keep in mind.
I can't see any measurable difference between the M720Q and M920Q, but I would expect the M920Q to have an edge somewhere (I didn't see anything obvious in my reading). The other model to keep an eye out for is the M920X which has dual M.2 NVMe slots on the PCB (something that can be added to the M920Q with dedication and a steady hand).
The newer generation of these Thinkstations are coming down in price and they may well be available for similar prices. The M90q and P340 would be solid choices for the 10GbE NIC upgrade also.
@@racerrrz I have several HP Elitedesk G4 Mini's with i5-8600T cpu's, so the same generation and chipset as your Lenovo M920Q Tiny. All of mine work fine with 64GB of DDR4, despite the specified HP memory limits. I'm guessing yours will work too. ZFS loves lots of RAM!
I think that You can use this internal SATA port for some SATA SSD without external case - only PCB it usually use 1/4 size of whole enclosure. It may fit inside with this extra 10Gb NIC, anyway on SATA SSD put Proxmox, in M.2 slot put 2TB SSD and multiply this setup by 3. After that make cluster with 3x Proxmox host and one Ceph Storage drive on 3x 2TB NVMe.
It will bee quite beefy homelab setup for virtualization.
Anyway, I must say that You make a damn nice videos with things that I love - hardware quirks :D Keep it up mate!
Thank you for your feedback, much appreciated. That's a good idea actually. The PCB for the SSD is a fraction of the size of the casing. I have alternative plans for that sata cable - I bought a number of adapters that will convert that sata power connection into fan headers - the Mini PC needs some additional cooling and I don't want something cumbersome - it needs to be flush. I had planned to repurpose the wifi M.2 E Key slot for some additional sata ports, but the adapter I ended up with was for mini PCIe - so now I need an adapter (m.2 e key to mini PCIe) for the adapters that I bought (Mini PCIe to dual internal 20-pin USB headers) - six SSDs need to connect - max speed of ~ 166MB/s per SSD via the 1x PCIe 3.0 lane haha. I also want to test out USB NVMe RAID reliability. Then, eventually, expanding into a cluster setup. Proxmox will open up some doors for heavy lifting from the small homelab!
@@racerrrz Can we buy a long cable that can enable us to put SSD outside of the case? Maybe we can find one.
If you make it a cluster I don't think you will get 3 x 2TB NVME. Your storage capacity will still be 2TB. That is what I think, but maybe I am wrong.
Any chance of a future upload? Working on this project myself, great content!
Thank you for the feedback. I have been waiting for my Noctua fan order for what feels like forever. That was the last thing I needed to round off the project (the 10GbE card needs some air flow). I have quite a number of items going into this little system, so yes, you can expect a future video getting this system up and running.
Love what you are doing❤❤❤
Thank you! I am glad you enjoyed it. I need to speed up my editing so I can get more of these done.
I have a feeling you're going to give yourself thermal issues, and I don't mean the helmet ! Those 10Gb cards were designed for servers in data centers, hence the heatsink, because the server will have fans with a high airflow, in a data center kept cool. The 540/550 gets several watts hotter than the 770. With no active cooling on the nic it's going to get pretty toasty.
Both of those get somewhat hot haha. The 10GbE card will need a dedicated fan for sustained use - especially on the Inspur version (X540-AV2) in the video. Placing a small Noctua fan (NF-A4x10) on the rear of the system could make all the difference.
Even the Intel X540-T2 placed in a well cooled PC tower can have issues with overheating (I placed a 120mm fan in my Z440 case swap to get air flow over the PCIe lanes to keep it cool).
For some inspiration: forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/lenovo-thinkcentre-thinkstation-tiny-project-tinyminimicro-reference-thread.34925/page-64
I am waiting the part2.
I have a heap of items lined up for this Mini PC. Part 2 is in the making - I was a little distracted with another video project for the HP Z8 G4 (video is done - so the Mini PC gets the focus again!).
It would be interesting to see if the coral tpu works in the m.2 slot if not using the WiFi.
I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. The M.2 E Key should handle the Edge TPU. The PCIe slot would also give you some flexibility in that regard.
Although expensive - I would like to think something like the PCIe AI Accelerator card (e.g. CRL-G116U-P3DF) might even fit in the system - pending clearances. However, there are only 8 electrical lanes available on the PCIe slot.
Hello, great video. Can I use a DAS, connect to this tiny server and have a fully NAS machine?
Thank you. You're just too fast for me because this is exactly what I am working on now! I have this system torn to pieces to see how far I can push it. I plan to connect up 6x SSDs to create a RAID 5 pool managed with Proxmox - with the 10GbE connectivity. The issue I ran into was - what is the best way to expand the number of USB ports? (I am using USB to sata connectors).
I tested out more than 10 different methods to expand USB connectivity (I made a post about it here - you may find that of interest: ruclips.net/user/postUgkxpTktM_1qj2u9I6LthX_lHsydedoiG9Vx ).
Thus far it has been pure joy to set up the system - Proxmox is even better than I expected. Right now I have several different OS's configured - I just toggle the one I want and use it as needed. My TrueNAS VM has worked better than I expected. I just received the last item I needed in the mail today - so hopefully I can fast track this video a bit.
So yes, you can absolutely convert this system to become your home NAS - the question is just how will you do it.
@@racerrrz Many thanks for you answer! Even if I already saw several videos and red some documents about NAS, I know that Unraid, TrueNAS and OMV are OS designed to NAS features howbeit I have to figure out what Proxmox is.
Many thanks for your help.
Nice. You'll get that NAS sorted in no time. Proxmox is a hypervisor for managing virtual machines (VM). Think of Proxmox as a user interface to manage other operating systems. You can install any OS, allocate it some hardware power (2 Cores, 4 Cores, 4 GB RAM, 8 GB RAM - you decide!) and then that OS runs in a "virtual sandbox" - plus you can run and manage several of these VM OS's. I use mine for testing purposes - so I can load up Ubunto server or TrueNAS Core and any NAS like functions that I have set up. Once I am done transfering backups to the VM, I can power down the VM and move on to something else - Windows VM to browse RUclips even lol. Come to think of it it's similar to DOSBox etc. where you could run DOS applications inside of Windows etc.
Does it make a difference as you used different memory brands.
Using different brands can work if you match the CAS latency between them. Ideally you would buy the same brand and the same CAS latency to ensure smooth operation. The HyperX brand of RAM modules (likely a counterfeit of Kingston's Hyper X) have been delivering good service for me so far. I have matched both modules (2x 16GB DDR4 2400 MHz SODIMM; CL14 SDRAM), so no issues there.
Can I put an intel i9 in it?
Yes you could. The best CPU option is likely the Intel Core i9-9900T (8 Core / 16T/ 4.4GHz Max), but I would recommend having the latest BIOS (before you upgrade), the better 65W CPU heatsink (P/N: 01MN632), and high power PSU if you go for a powerful CPU in this system (e.g. P/N: 4X20E50562; 135W 20V 6.75A PSU brick). This is not essential but it would mean lower operating temperatures and more power for external devices etc.
The adapter is X8 speeds
Correct. PCIe 3.0 x16 slot with x8 electrical lanes. Decent bandwidth for most applications, but not a full x16 slot.
trying and failing to figure out why you got such low speeds with that 10G card. were you able to do any additional testing?
I had the same issue on my Intel X540-T2's - they were operating at 1.9GbE out of the box and it took some refining to get decent speeds. I'll check up on it in more detail but I presume jumbo frames and TCP checksum will give it a bump. The other issue will be thermals - it might be running into a throttling situation quickly. I am working on Noctua solution for that which will feature in Part 2 of this video series.
@@racerrrz got it, thanks. were you just testing with like ttcp or iperf3 or something or using an application level test like an AMB copy? (the temperature throttling thing feels like a solid potential culprit btw.)
@@0xKruzr That was iPerf3 while transferring to and from my HP Z8 G4 with an Intel X540-T2 (short Cat6a cables) and a Ubiquity Flex-XG 4-port 10GbE switch.
Most likely it's heat related given that there is very little air flow in this mini pc. After some refinement I am hopeful to bump it up to at least 8GbE.lol.
@@racerrrz definitely thermals, I have a bunch of these deployed in video editing machines at work and having decent airflow over the card helps a ton. These variants are nearly a decade old, so they get hot as they're technically designed for datacenter situations and also only support 1 and 10gbe, while newer revisions support 2.5 and 5gbe
hi… can u swap the CPU?
Hi. Yes, the CPU can be swapped out for an 8th gen or 9th gen Intel T CPU. I included some footage for how to do this in my video: 4:54
For a good list of CPUs you can check here: www.servethehome.com/lenovo-thinkcentre-m920-and-m920q-tiny-guide-and-review/2/
Yes up to a Core i9 9900T and idk about this model but on the ThinkStation P330 Tiny you can also do that upgrade in addition to non-T CPUs the 65W ones but you'll have to sacrifice the dedicated GPU because the P330 Tiny comes with Quadro GPU (either P620 or P1000 which are also upgradable to a RTX A400) but you could have a 65W Core i9 9900 on those if you don't need the GPU and are ok with the Intel UHD, personally I have the Core i9 9900T with a Quadro P1000 and 32GB ram and it's a beast, might do a RTX A400 or AMD RX 6400 (Low Profile) just to have faster graphics.
the cross method is way better to repaste a cpu or gpu
I feel the urge to do some proper testing on this concept. The cross or X does look promising but you wind up using too much thermal paste.
In terms of testing different methods - if you do not control for the volume of thermal paste that's applied between methods the test is flawed. Each method would require the same volume to be able to make an informative comparison on which application method is the best. The testing videos that I have seen do not control for volume and thus most methods give full coverage when excess thermal paste is applied.
What I like about the spreader method + blobs is that you use the minimal amount of paste to achieve 100% coverage (pending how well your preferred paste spreads), and adding a few blobs helps reduce the odds of air pockets.
Guess I'll add this to the bucket list - I need to back this claim up with a video haha.
I just layout a pattern of 5 dots (center and corners), then don a nitrile glove and use my index finger as the spreader. Lots of control and a nice even coat.
What are your thermals like with the glove spreading? I found the coat ends up a bit thin, but if you place a few dots on afterwards it might just be perfect.
Maybe, for those who don't have skillz, and don't know how to properly spread the the paste with a spreader, then you would be correct. I have have had training from major manufacturers of some very high end computing systems, and I am not speaking just of x86 systems, and the spreader method using a mini-spatula is the best. But as I said, you need skillz, and the average x86 never gets that training.
@@FarrellMcGovern Indeed. I actually found a credit card to work the best (pun not intended). It gives the ability to adjust the pressure applied and has a decent surface area to cover the entire CPU IHS for most applications.
To make my life difficult /
In the quest to get a nice transparent spreader for the videos - I wind up trimming plastic packaging material to create a see-through spreader.
I can't recommend it - the edges were roughed-up and it made life difficult haha.
See-through spreader > functional spreader.
64GB do also work :-)
That's awesome. I overlooked that detail but thank you for pointing that out.
Yup. I have 2x PNY Performance MN64GK2D43200-TB installed to support an i7-8700T.
Yup, can also confirm. At least on my m920q machine. But I've also read some posts from people who couldn't get past 32GB.
how am I meant to whack off with that helmet on!!!
The helmet is the only way I can stand the bright studio lights - they are blinding!
If you can't whack off, you might be putting the helmet on the wrong body part.
Just wait until the systems shutdown due to lack of proper cooling on they 10gbe card. Those get very toasty and with zero airflow is bye bye
Yes, it could create a bit of an inferno in there without some additional cooling. I plan to add a 40mm Nocua fan to help resolve thermal throttling of the NIC.
So far so good - it has survived it's testing. CPU temps remained really low and it churned through nominal tasks without issue. The 10GbE is only really going to become an issue once I sort out the storage side of things. I have set up a somewhat fanatical 6x SSDs - all connected with USB cables to create a RAID 5 pool. I plan to run this 24/7 - so it better not spit balls of fire!
I had one of these - maybe not identical, but another "X540" that is almost certainly not really an X540 but something reprogrammed to say it is, and acquired suspiciously cheaply from eBay. It and disabled itself due to thermal throttling before the Proxmox UI was even accessible over the LAN. So, without load, it lasted less than 60 seconds in my system. This was in a big tower base, plenty of airflow, but very low static pressure. Maybe the higher static pressure of these little systems might work a bit better, but I can't imagine this working too well.
For the $20 USD price tag I figured it was worth the test. I actually wanted to try to run and power the 10GbE card from a M.2 NVMe slot (using a riser cable; with external DC power). I managed to rig this to work but I did not attain full function of the card (I estimate my power source was sort on amps). To check if it even works I did test it in a HP Z840 where it gave decent performance in iPerf3 but I did not stress test or attempt to monitor the thermals on it. I would expect heat to limit it's function and without added cooling it may not give reliable service. I hope to test a small 40mm Noctua fan mounted to the exterior of the rear I/O. I have found a sata to 4-pin power cable - so it should be a seamless mod. I'll update on how effective this is on the follow-up video.
@@racerrrz yeah I think m.2 can supply a maximum of 7w or something like that. You could probably get a newer 10Gbe device to run off that, something like an Acquantia AC 113 is very low power and actually reasonably priced for a single port adapter from AliExpress. Might even work with the older AC107, or maybe an X550 (single port). But IIRC a *real* X540 draws more than 7w per port, nevermind two ports, nevermind these fakes which are invariably ancient chips that draw about 20w per port or more.
Edit: *AQC* 113 / 107
Nice. I'll look into the AC 113 /107 as a low power 10GbE solution. I should be able to retrieve an Intel X540-T2 out of another system for some testing too. If I can get more than 2GbE between two ports I would be fairly satisfied. Mini PC power limits make it tricky to really push the PCIe power draw but I'll measure the power draw numbers to get an idea of what sort of numbers this cheap 10GbE adapter is pulling.