The Workaround sadly doesn't work for real live performance (Clip Based). And it's such a pity that most software plugins (e.g. effects for vocals) add too much latency... I never thought Ableton Live isn't really usable for LIVE.
Zero latency isn't possible. I hear a lot of content providers say this but it's not correct. Latency is the amount of time from trigger or creation of a sound at source until its heard from speakers or headphones. The human animal can detect a latency as small as 10ms. On average most non musician/audio engineers don't start detecting latency until it gets above 25-30. Professional audio engineers or musicians are 10-20. The trick with latency is not to try and eliminate it, but to get it to the point where it is so low that it's not detectible. This depends on whether you're dealing with Audio from outside the computer or audio generated within the computer like from a VST/Plugin synth of some kind. Latency is greater with audio from outside. Audio from a microphone, guitar or audio cable plugged device. Because the signal travels from the device, thru wire, into the interface, gets converted, to the DAW, processed and then sent back out to the speakers or headphones. Depending on how fast all of that happens, will determine the amount of latency. In audio, the use of audio buffers , which work with latency compensation algorithms, latency can be greatly reduced. Buffers take time to fill. So the trick with Audio is to make the buffer size big enough where the dynamic range of the audio can be handled without losing anything but not too big where you have a lag from the buffer taking time to fill. With VSTs, the audio driver or input/output conversion (I/O) part of the software is usually the problem. When you're recording Audio from outside, make the buffer small enough to reduce lag, but big enoug to not lose audio quality. With VSTs, it's the same thing, but you want to try and go as big as possible. Audio I usually use 64-128 VST/Plugins I use 128-512
I was testing just that today with Ableton and my focusrite scarlet 18i20, and even with a 3 ms of latency (96khz, 32 samples , something like that), i cannot play something fast consistently in time like example some Iron Maiden covers. Direct monitoring via focusrite control is the solution, but for an accoustic instrument like violin/viola that i play, having no audio treatment is a bummer, but necessary for live gig. So yeah, just 3ms for inear live show monitoring is not doing it :/ but, 10 ms is perfectly fine for the stereo output for the concert hall speakers, it doesnt really matter for that.
Great vid, thanks. I have been recording and live looping in Ableton since 2003 and I can't understand how they haven't figured this out yet. The fact that you have to do this workaround to record and monitor without the latency is just silly. It means you can't do any kind of routing, parallel or even serial processing and record that processing into your loop.
@@marco1941 NO! Latency is inherit to analog to digital conversion. Just like calling Europe from the States will have latency, you cannot skirt physics. You can get the latency down to a minimum with a really good interface and CPU but never eliminate it entirely. I just record the audio DRY directly from my audio interface then add effects later on during mixing. I have however been utilizing the technique of recording on one channel with monitoring "OFF" while listening to a duplicate track with monitoring "ON" with any plugin on in real-time.
DEC is not used when monitoring is on/auto. In this video, the problem is having latency added when monitoring is set to "On". Also, be careful with DEC, it's supposed to only be used with plug&play sound cards. Sound cards with drivers on Windows in most cases don't need to adjust DEC. From ableton documentation FAQ: I've adjusted the DEC amount but it's having no effect on the recordings, why? DEC is only applied if the monitor on the recording track is set to "Off". If monitoring AND recording on a track where the monitor is set to "In" or "Auto", then DEC has no effect.
Hi! Great tutorial to get the audio in time but my problem is when I want to record my voice in real time (and listening to my own voice) whilst listening to the track it's still not in time with the beat.. so frustrating, any advice? buffer size is 512 now but adjusting doesn't help.. :( thanks in advance!
You’re listening to Ableton. You need to listen to your original source sound, by monitoring through your sound card. Or, of you don’t have an interface with a direct monitor (all should), use a mixer with an aux send to send your source to Ableton, and listen to your source fader.
Turn OFF latency compensation. It calculates the total latency of plugins and applies it to the vocals. You should ONLY use latency compensation if you’ve properly completed the Ableton latency process. Ableton has a project built-in to properly calibrate your DAW and interface for latency. If you DON’T do this first and turn on latency compensation, you are just causing yourself problems.
is that small of a buffer size just a mac thing because or an 11 thing? because on windows I can go below 256 and it comletely destroys all audio quality
I have this somewhat related problem: I want to parallel compress kick and snare from my drumkit and I‘m not using chains, as I want to be able to tweak the amount of kick and snare in my parallel bus without affecting the regular one. From my send, I return the audio to a normal track to be able to group them, but there comes the twist: I just want the audio to pass through, as in an aux track. But when I enable monitoring, it’s unusable due to the occuring latency. What would be your workaround of choice?
is it normal when i just monitor my guitar in ableton that it’s always half a second delayed? i am not talking about recording. i just wanna hear what i play. it’s always like half a second delay. how do i get rid of it!
so in ableton i cant reduce latency to zero i was told olny audio card will helo , so basically audio card is for better sound what is advantages to buy aduio card
Great vid! Does sample rate influence when you are just playing and want to listen yourself on top of pre-recorded audio? I need to bring down bitrate to 32 bits to get 10 ms latency, and thats even too much latency for me. My laptop should be able to habldle audio live according to LatencyMoon!
@@ZeroDividesByYOU i use audio interface (scarlett 2i4) and I ve tried ASIO4ALL and the scarlett drivers, I still get too much latency to play live. The way it works (for me) is to mic the guitar amp, mute the mic in the DAW, use my headphones connected to the interface, ser signal to 50% direct. Then I hear the amp with no delay + whatever is playing on the DAW. This gives 0 latency
yea I think that would work too! I think then when you monitor an audio track in a group though there is more monitoring latency sometimes but yea you'd just have to try it!
I will cash app you 20 if you tell me how to turn off your own vocals in head phones during recording ? I can't turn off the monitoring and hear my self when I rap and it's weird
On the audio track that you're recording to there are 3 options for monitoring "on auto and off" just turn it off. You won't hear your vocal in headphones or on monitors
yes this, also make sure on your audio device, you don't have the monitoring turned on. If you are using an apollo then there is a separate software mixer that where you need to turn the monitoring off.
What the f*** guys. Just use ableton preference latency compensation. As for the plugin in the chain there are quiet all zero latency. Moreover the latency of the interface cannot be dealt with direct monitoring. And that is the Pb. Plugin latency is easy to solve. Interface latency is not correctable.
If you are looking to improve your mixing skills, check out the Modern Mix Academy! 👉found.ee/ModernMixAcademy
I knew it I was playing in time. I KNEW IT.
The Workaround sadly doesn't work for real live performance (Clip Based). And it's such a pity that most software plugins (e.g. effects for vocals) add too much latency... I never thought Ableton Live isn't really usable for LIVE.
Zero latency isn't possible. I hear a lot of content providers say this but it's not correct. Latency is the amount of time from trigger or creation of a sound at source until its heard from speakers or headphones.
The human animal can detect a latency as small as 10ms. On average most non musician/audio engineers don't start detecting latency until it gets above 25-30. Professional audio engineers or musicians are 10-20.
The trick with latency is not to try and eliminate it, but to get it to the point where it is so low that it's not detectible.
This depends on whether you're dealing with Audio from outside the computer or audio generated within the computer like from a VST/Plugin synth of some kind.
Latency is greater with audio from outside. Audio from a microphone, guitar or audio cable plugged device. Because the signal travels from the device, thru wire, into the interface, gets converted, to the DAW, processed and then sent back out to the speakers or headphones. Depending on how fast all of that happens, will determine the amount of latency. In audio, the use of audio buffers , which work with latency compensation algorithms, latency can be greatly reduced. Buffers take time to fill. So the trick with Audio is to make the buffer size big enough where the dynamic range of the audio can be handled without losing anything but not too big where you have a lag from the buffer taking time to fill.
With VSTs, the audio driver or input/output conversion (I/O) part of the software is usually the problem.
When you're recording Audio from outside, make the buffer small enough to reduce lag, but big enoug to not lose audio quality. With VSTs, it's the same thing, but you want to try and go as big as possible.
Audio I usually use 64-128
VST/Plugins I use 128-512
I was testing just that today with Ableton and my focusrite scarlet 18i20, and even with a 3 ms of latency (96khz, 32 samples , something like that), i cannot play something fast consistently in time like example some Iron Maiden covers. Direct monitoring via focusrite control is the solution, but for an accoustic instrument like violin/viola that i play, having no audio treatment is a bummer, but necessary for live gig. So yeah, just 3ms for inear live show monitoring is not doing it :/ but, 10 ms is perfectly fine for the stereo output for the concert hall speakers, it doesnt really matter for that.
Great vid, thanks. I have been recording and live looping in Ableton since 2003 and I can't understand how they haven't figured this out yet. The fact that you have to do this workaround to record and monitor without the latency is just silly. It means you can't do any kind of routing, parallel or even serial processing and record that processing into your loop.
Does this work in other DAWs?
@@marco1941 NO! Latency is inherit to analog to digital conversion. Just like calling Europe from the States will have latency, you cannot skirt physics. You can get the latency down to a minimum with a really good interface and CPU but never eliminate it entirely. I just record the audio DRY directly from my audio interface then add effects later on during mixing.
I have however been utilizing the technique of recording on one channel with monitoring "OFF" while listening to a duplicate track with monitoring "ON" with any plugin on in real-time.
This is the best video on this topic I have seen
WOAH 🤯 been using ableton forever and just found out about this. thanks!
Happy to help!
brilliant! i always thought I played my guitar badly
You should also adjust the driver error compensation, that's what it's there for.
DEC is not used when monitoring is on/auto. In this video, the problem is having latency added when monitoring is set to "On". Also, be careful with DEC, it's supposed to only be used with plug&play sound cards. Sound cards with drivers on Windows in most cases don't need to adjust DEC.
From ableton documentation FAQ:
I've adjusted the DEC amount but it's having no effect on the recordings, why?
DEC is only applied if the monitor on the recording track is set to "Off". If monitoring AND recording on a track where the monitor is set to "In" or "Auto", then DEC has no effect.
How did u record live's metronome? How do you route the metronome to a track for recording? Many thanks.
same
Using metronome is dope!
It´s driving me crazy!!! :)
You have saved me from suicide thank you! :) much better now! thank so much for the video kind regards!
thank you!!
Thank you this is awesome!
thanks!
How did you even send the metronome signal to the audio track?
I took a guitar cable and plugged it into my line out and then back into my input
I just started using Ableton Live today... and I´m already watchig this video. Hmmm.
Hi! Great tutorial to get the audio in time but my problem is when I want to record my voice in real time (and listening to my own voice) whilst listening to the track it's still not in time with the beat.. so frustrating, any advice? buffer size is 512 now but adjusting doesn't help.. :( thanks in advance!
using scarlett 2i4
@@Heden00 any plugins on the track?
@@samsmyers yes with fx!
@@Heden00 try removing the fx or monitoring directly from the interface
I use an external digital mixer, i do all the monitoring from there, and I send the audio to ableton trough the built in soundcard.
There is still latency in my headphones when I do this. any idea how to hear myself with the latency.
You’re listening to Ableton. You need to listen to your original source sound, by monitoring through your sound card. Or, of you don’t have an interface with a direct monitor (all should), use a mixer with an aux send to send your source to Ableton, and listen to your source fader.
Turn OFF latency compensation. It calculates the total latency of plugins and applies it to the vocals.
You should ONLY use latency compensation if you’ve properly completed the Ableton latency process. Ableton has a project built-in to properly calibrate your DAW and interface for latency. If you DON’T do this first and turn on latency compensation, you are just causing yourself problems.
Thanks for this useful tip
great!
is that small of a buffer size just a mac thing because or an 11 thing? because on windows I can go below 256 and it comletely destroys all audio quality
It might have to do with your audio card / audio interface.
So basically is it better to just use hardware ?
I have this somewhat related problem: I want to parallel compress kick and snare from my drumkit and I‘m not using chains, as I want to be able to tweak the amount of kick and snare in my parallel bus without affecting the regular one. From my send, I return the audio to a normal track to be able to group them, but there comes the twist: I just want the audio to pass through, as in an aux track. But when I enable monitoring, it’s unusable due to the occuring latency. What would be your workaround of choice?
is it normal when i just monitor my guitar in ableton that it’s always half a second delayed? i am not talking about recording. i just wanna hear what i play. it’s always like half a second delay. how do i get rid of it!
ok 4 pruduction but what for actual live??
Great video
Excellent
Thanks!
so in ableton i cant reduce latency to zero i was told olny audio card will helo , so basically audio card is for better sound what is advantages to buy aduio card
Very helpful
Glad you think so!
Great vid! Does sample rate influence when you are just playing and want to listen yourself on top of pre-recorded audio? I need to bring down bitrate to 32 bits to get 10 ms latency, and thats even too much latency for me.
My laptop should be able to habldle audio live according to LatencyMoon!
Are you using an interface and ASIO drivers with it? Or are you just using Windows audio (MME/WDM)?
@@ZeroDividesByYOU i use audio interface (scarlett 2i4) and I ve tried ASIO4ALL and the scarlett drivers, I still get too much latency to play live.
The way it works (for me) is to mic the guitar amp, mute the mic in the DAW, use my headphones connected to the interface, ser signal to 50% direct. Then I hear the amp with no delay + whatever is playing on the DAW. This gives 0 latency
i had mxl 770 now i bought nt1 and i can make it happen enormus latency with recording. what ever i do .
thankyouuuuuu
yea no problem!
Wow very helful tip bro. I need it. Thank you
Happy to help!
What if you do group channel track and put your gtr fx there, and one audio track under the grp track?
yea I think that would work too! I think then when you monitor an audio track in a group though there is more monitoring latency sometimes but yea you'd just have to try it!
Yo dis shit is old.
in able 11 my buffer size cant go lower 256 an u could also manually change the output buffer size when voice record ?
Hey i cant record two tracks at the same time,does someone know what i have to do?
Hold control when you click arm on the second track. You can also change it in your preferences
how do you get both tracks to record simultaneously?
you press control and click on the arm recording buttons that you want to record in (you can pretty much record in as much tracks as you want)
@@MixTar73 yup! i'm a dumbass lo..thanks for the response!
Hey, the easiest way to fix this issue is to set a Driver Error Compensation in Ableton.
I will cash app you 20 if you tell me how to turn off your own vocals in head phones during recording ? I can't turn off the monitoring and hear my self when I rap and it's weird
On the audio track that you're recording to there are 3 options for monitoring "on auto and off" just turn it off. You won't hear your vocal in headphones or on monitors
yes this, also make sure on your audio device, you don't have the monitoring turned on. If you are using an apollo then there is a separate software mixer that where you need to turn the monitoring off.
What the f*** guys. Just use ableton preference latency compensation. As for the plugin in the chain there are quiet all zero latency. Moreover the latency of the interface cannot be dealt with direct monitoring. And that is the Pb. Plugin latency is easy to solve. Interface latency is not correctable.