So Flat, It's Boring | Neumann KH310 Studio Monitor Review
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Today we review a classic speaker - the successor to the Klein & Hummel O300.
Check out Systematic Productions and my prior work here: www.systematic...
Check out the Systematic Mixing Guide here: www.systematic...
#studio #speakers #production
The issue is most likely not the tweeters, it's the hardware you have before the monitors. Something in your electronic chain is distorting the highs, and it's not the Neumanns.
Definitely. The high end sounds very detailed to me.
In my humble opinion, the tweeters are perfect and honest. I can compare them to the 803 D3 Diamond from B&W and I can only say the Neumann's got it 'right'. However, there's nothing more unpredictable than personal taste. My personal taste is 'cut back the high end' to avoid listening fatigue. For me, modern music is just too 'sharp' compared to the silky 80's which also gives the mids more space. Compared to high-end audio, Neumann offers a bargain (if you fancy good old UK sound balance).
I only worked with the old revision not the neumann version and I have to disagree I also had in 2010 I think very hard time with mixing Strings and Vocals...😅 But the Stereo image was phenomenal
thanks for your honest review. have had mine for a year and half. it took me a month to get used to them but now i simply can't go back to the focal solo 6 i used for 4 years. the neumanns are keepers!
from audio science review:
"Neuman KH 310A Near-field Speaker Listening Tests
I know many of you think that looking at the measurements biases you in listening tests. But I must say, the very first impression of what hits my face and ears is often a surprise. I figured the KH 310A would sound good but not this good! I always start with female vocals to see if their brilliance is reproduced without harshness. The KH 310A blew me away with how it managed this careful trick! I could not believe the level of clarity, balance, yet detailed sound with zero harshness or lispiness.
At the risk of stating the obvious, I am going to strongly recommend the Neumann KH 310A Active Monitor. I live for days like this when a company cares to give us the best sound reproduction we can get."
Strange that you find the high end harsh. I find it quite detailed, maybe a bit too much, maybe a bit too hard but it pushes me to smooth my high end. I hope that you guys will slowly start to discover low pas filters again so that the new productions can be enjoyed loudly again!
Being harsh and being accurate are two different things. I have the Focal Shape 65 which have an inverted M-shaped tweeter which is very, very accurate and revealing, but not harsh sounding at all. I listen to mine for hours without any kind of ear fatigue (unlike the Rokit KRK's which have awful top end, especially at high volume). I think the technology behind the Shapes is better, especially the tweeters, and you can tell they spent more care and attention to them than Neumann did with these. Not to say these are bad at all, I'm sure they're very good monitors, but the technology behind them is quite old and has moved on a bit since they came out which is over a decade ago.
What people in the comments don't understand, and I'm not sure if the original poster understands this.. the beryllium tweeter will not distort as a "normal" fabric tweeter will. And it feels like it's more revealing, but the issue with the beryllium (idk how you spell that) is that you can push them indefinitely without them distorting. Which basically means that your mixes may not translate well to other systems because they might be top heavy. I had listened to the "normal" fabric tweeters my whole life, and when I switched to the focal 11be, my first two mixes sounded amazing.. until I played them on any other system. Then it felt like my ears were bleeding from the amount of high end in those mixes. So I realized that I had to tame them every time, and I kept my quested vh2108 just to check the highs on them. So the kh310's tweeter is not dull, nor boring, nor is it hissy - it's simply a different design, and it will give you a good representation on what your high end will sound like on most of the systems.
Been hoping for this video after all the updates on your Opals. Too bad you did not get them back the way they were originally. Thanks so much for this!
My pleasure. The Opals aren't what they were, for sure. Review incoming.
Ha, got em
stick to your hifi speakers kid
Yay more studiocontent
Maybe you should find another line of work if you think studio monitors with a flat frequency response are a bad thing.
What's also important is to follow Neumanns guidelines on them. If on desk they also recommend dialling down to mids. If in doubt always do dsp via ma1
you need their kh750 sub to take advantage of DSP. only the kh80's have it built in so far
funny I'm saying the same thing about NDH30. so flat it's boring but wait! it's so interesting to hear what mixing and mastering engineers actually wanted us to hear
I'm with you on your apriciation of the event opals. I'd like to see what you make of the Neumann KH-150 monitors if possible?
If they are like the littlebrother, the 120’ies, then they have one very good thing going for them, that can easily be overlooked:
We were having insane long hours doing a lot of computer game localizations, 14-16 hours a day, and with the Genelecs or the Focal Twins our ears got soooo tired, and I even had a bit of ringing. With the 120’ies there were no problems.
Once you have gotten used to their sonics, you don’t need the extra treble.
Genelec has DSP. you can calm treble very easily.
I have completely the same experience with 120. Genelecs 8030 hurt my ears. I can work 1 hour longer a day on 120 than 8030.
All sam monitors have hundreds of thousands of different sound tone/rhythm weighting structures if you learn to use glm/dsp by editing the hz, gain and q values. You will never come across a boring border. The sound can be compressed, widened, deepened, focused, distanced, and dampened and bent into many different layers. Certain smaller genelec models are more limited than larger ones in terms of the nature of adjustments.
The bigger the model, the more sound structure variants you can create.
I listened (not producing) Music with the 310 nearly 2 yrs, after them a few months the 120 and now Unity Audio Super Rock. When i look back and try to remember, yes they are great - good amplifiers, great details and an very smooth sound. You can listen with them for hours. But i prefer my Unitys and wouldnt go back to the 310s. Theyre a little bit too boring for my taste. When i compare them, theyre not as revealing with Depth & Placement of Music. We talk about higher priced monitors so the steps are pretty small, but for my taste, the AMT deliver more details and clarity than the Neumann Tweeter. Overall theyre all awesome speakers. I would def go back to them when they had their MA-1 build into the speaker so you dont need the sub. I hope they bring out someday a new 310 MK2 at least with some new internal technologies like their Room correction
I actually think that is a major strong point of the Neumann's, they don't make things sound super exciting. Often when speakers make everything exciting the mixes suffer as a result. You don't work as hard. This is Serban Ghenea's perspective on monitoring and I couldn't agree more! Get good monitoring but not so good that everything sounds amazing on them.
I would LOVE to see you review the D&D 8c Studio
4:16 - so Periphery V?
Wow, I am sorry you dislike these. I have been on KH120s and 310 for 12 years, Your review of the top end is a surprise, since no other review anywhere ever said anything bad about them... Did you swap out cables or converters, something else has to be causing your issue...
I was gonna say to get the grill for this.. But you're most likely switching back to opals! I have the non berrylium version. I got the original but it had a lot of issues that the new version did not. I didn't compare them side-by-side but am happy with them.
Was also checking out this monitors Mate, in my bucket list.
I just spent an evening with the predecessors to the speakers. I recently purchased a used pair and just had time to set them up. I much preferred them in the vertical position. I tried listening to them on their sides at different distances and I felt the frequencies were smearing between the highs mids and lows and spatially it was confusing. However, when I set them up vertically it was extremely clear and balanced and detailed and I could see making decisions with these would be very easy. I will be using them this way
which monitors do you mean? the ones reviewed here are designed to be horizontal.. am just curious if it has to do with the tweeter and ear height being the same.
@@chinmeysway Klein & Hummel (K&H) 0300
@@chinmeysway I know. I was surprised by the discovery.
great clear and honest review
Great and honest review! Thank you!
Everybody who says the 310s are not good and such things should learn how to mix a track. They are phenomenal good and brutally honest. If your production sounds shit on them, your production sounds simply like shit. Fact!
Toys are toys. And many childish studio men buy toys, and the quality sucks
Ermin put the computer in a separate room and drag the cables through the hole.
No more noise
I like every minute of your elaboration, Ermine, and have liked it, but to be honest I keep asking myself how can anyone judge any speaker by playing synthetic sounds through them... the only true reference would be acoustic instruments, especially classical music, or at least jazz, and above all - the human voice solo.
Not changing my K&H O300 thanks. They sound quite better than the Neumann O310s, even though mine do not feature the fancy digital settings of the Neumanns. Just take care of your room acoustics and finish up with Sonarworks analysis and a good pair of graphic EQs.
They are very aesthetically pleasing in my honest opinion. They look like they can do some serious damage.
I cannot agree more with your review. This is a shocker because it’s next to impossible to get an honest review on RUclips. I’ve had mine for 3 years and I can say that these are too freaking surgical for anyone that’s producing. I do believe that these speakers are holding me back , I have to mix all my low end in headphones etc. these are freaky accurate and would only be useful to mixing/mastering engineers or people who need forensic style accuracy. Imma try out the barefoots
What a bullish
The two main "problems" with this speaker are the fact that its not ported, so it has lots of distortion at low frequencies due to the necessary cone travel (creates a "hollow" or somewhat muddy bass) and the fact that its a monitor with a flat response. Flat is good, but it does not automatically mean it will be neutral as the radiation pattern and the absorption characteristics of the room must be taken into account to get the correct tilt for the audio to be perceptually neutral. Too much tilt and it sounds overly bassy. Too little and it sounds bright and thin. I have a nearfield system that required almost 4 dB/octave to be neutral perceptually. In the in-room response this puts the sub at about 115 dB at 40 Hz when the main portion of the system is at an average of 86 dB. Quite a lot of drive needed from it to maintain neutrality into the sub-bass region. But never the less, that is what was required or it was not neutral. People just hook this stuff up, turn it on, and expect perfection. Not the case as you will need to make measurements to make sure its giving what you ask of it. The room is the other half of the equation, and if you don't take it into account, you will be forever on the speaker marry-go-round looking for one that has the right complimentary profile for your room or studio. Edit: Measurements can be found here of the KH310: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh-310a-review-powered-monitor.17723/ They have a lot of distortion down low due to no port. With a sub and some bass management, though, they would be killer.
Great points about tuning the system to the room. The room's response character and adjusting for it is under appreciated. The room is definitely part of the "system".
Human hearing is insensitive to distortion in low frequencies. The shape of equal-loudness contours in low frequencies allow fundamental tone auditory mask second or third harmonics much better.
@@tugbars4690 To an extent, yes. I agree. But this thing gets close to 100% THD at the bottom of its frequency response range. I've found that 5% or so THD at low frequencies is not bothersome or even really audible, but when you get towards 20-30% it will start to have an audible impact, not to mention that these harmonics will fall further up in the spectrum and there might not always be something there to mask it. I have not done any hard and fast testing with bass distortion as I have done with distortion in the midrange and treble regions, but it does audibly degrade the sound quality if it gets out of hand. Not having a port is good as it eliminates a source of resonances, but it also means the DSP has to push the woofer to keep the response flat in the bass region. That's visible in the 96 dB distortion profile with a constant rising distortion with decreasing frequencies. The fact that our ears are not as sensitive there is a double-edged sword as it means that the bass region will have substantial energy in normal use due to the general 1/f spectral content of music. 110 dB on the A scale would be intolerable. 110 dB at low frequencies, on the other hand, is quite common in home theater and home audio, so its important to have some head room if you plan to run them at higher volumes. If its just being used for simple mixing and monitoring in the nearfield or thereabouts, though, then it will probably never be an issue.
@@mysock351C Oh I totally agree that +20% distortion is audible. I honestly use mine with x2 KH 750's. Neumann likes to make speakers with minimal group delay and minimal standing waves in cabinet as possible, I think they led them to make KH 310 portless. I think KH 310's should be paired with a sealed subwoofer.
This is ma1 exists.. and i was happy enough even before getting dsp
I watched your Fanatec McLaren V2 review then later was looking for something to replace my HS7s with and baaam.. this guy again 😂
The Neumann kh 310 are fantastic, I think the problem is in your ears 🤷
did you consider switching to Genelec's The Ones?
The Genelec ones series is a superior product than some children's monitor toys, which the crowd praises without knowing the real situations and the comparison ratio of top quality.
So flat its boring? Sounds like something thats good for mixing. I want these. I have the neumann ndh 30 headphones and if these spakers sound somewhat similar I want them👌
I can recommend a Neumann sub and use bass management mode so the 310’s have an easier time of it. They are SO insightful. Also, to get the best out of them, consider upgrading balanced connections. I found Mogami golds were NOT helping matters. I replaced these with SLIC eclipse leads (more expensive, but worth it) , a definite improvement in treble response (less congested, more spacious) was heard, at least by me. Good luck with your Opals!
SLIC eclipse leads = oil snake , enculage de mouches in french
Any difference in cables is in your imagination.
@@Solus793no it is not. Cheap or bad cables = noise at low volumes. Good cables (most of the time expensive) = no noise at low volumes. I use Mogami Gold, no noise. Before I used Planet Waves and I had noise. It is about the isolation of the cables and the used material. Fact!
Does that mean that Genelec's make the sound more coloured than Neumann's? Because they sound more hi-fi?
Yo, what?
HamSandwich is both a great sim racer/beamNG fan aaand a metal music producer?
Hey mate, where in australia are you from?
Thanks for the vid. 🙂
What would you reckomend in the same price bracket?
These exact ones.
Totally disagree with everything negative you had to say. Then again speakers are highly subjective.
What?? These are way levels above opals. Just keep trying them for two more months
Have you tried any speakers with Ribbon tweeters, if so what do you think of them in comparison to the tweeters in the neumanns and the opals?
I was never a fan, but the last time I heard a ribbon tweeter monitor was over 10 years ago. Things change!
The Hedds look good.
I regret to inform you that there are no studio monitors on the market with a ribbon tweeters.
@@nestoroldman Isnt a ribbon and AMT tweet the same thing ?
@@jcisme No, the ribbon tweeter is literally an aluminum ribbon between 2 magnets and the AMT is a copper layer between 2 accordion-shaped Mylar sheets. Look for the RAAL brand of tweeters to see what the ribbon ones are like.
Respectfully, highly disagree…
I thought these rolled off 3db at 35 hz, not 50 or even 40hz.
That would surprise me. I've recently paired them with the KH750 sub, and it's been transformative - having an effect well into their low mid reproduction. Ultimately that might be a factor of the low-mid driver being tasked of recreating frequencies well outside of its comfort zone.
@@SystematicProductions it literally says it in the specs
Or does it?
Yep 34 hz before roll off, your room will alter that though
wish people got stuff correct, lota talk on here thats not right, these speakers have a good amount of adjustment, closed port is the tightest bass ive had, I hear no bad stuff going on, correct placement, a bit of room treatment, and sonar works to iron some room kinks out, great set up, would love the 750 dsp sub though.
@@malkytrance i went for the 750 sub and room correction mic. Good stuff.
too subjective, for us they are amazing, we run 9 of these in a circular atmos rig and they have out performed anything in their class.. Only wish is that they had DSP, but that's not really an issue with dedicated time to setup them up..
how about the BareFoot 01?
Neumann all the way. Barefoot have too much „magic“ bass.
@@cheopz_official after checking them both extensively, about 4 months ago I went for BareFoot 01. ... 3 months later, I love them more. ❤🔊
the magic bass you mention, possibly has to do with untreated room because I have it very well treated and there are no bass surges. Here they sound very transparent and very nice unnotisable crossover, super defined frequences from low to high.
This review is gonna upset hugh from sound on sound magazine 🤣🤣🤣 he literally thinks they are perfect with zero flaws 🤣🤣🤣
How do these compare to Adam A7X s ??
These are on a different level.
@@SystematicProductions Thanks. Can you please explain in more detail what the differences are? For beginners the Yamaha HS7s is the way to go. About 90% of aspiring producers end up with HS7s. And when everyone upgrades all of a sudden it's Adam A7Xs mostly.
@@nothingbutthetruth9664 the only way to understand is to listen to them in person. I had a pair of A7X’s with the Sub 10 maybe about 10 years ago now, and I got the 310’s about 3 years ago. The 310’s are more articulated in every way, and I haven’t had the need for a sub in my home studio - the room is approx. 2.5m x 4m. I don’t miss the open ribbon tweeter sound and the 310’s just get better as they get more use. I’d only ever get subs if I were to move to a room that was maybe 2x (or more) the size as mine….it’s been tempting to get 2 KH750’s but it would be massive overkill! Hope that helps
@@nothingbutthetruth9664 I'm not Ermz, but I own a pair of KH310s as well and have used HS7s and A7Xs. These are _way_ higher quality. They are far lower distortion, far flatter frequency response, and the low end makes a million times more sense on these. But the biggest difference is the mids. The dome mid on these is absolutely stellar. The HS7s are messy and harsh, the A7Xs sound like a cheap big box computer speaker set.
@@davidfuller581 awesome, thanks!
I love my Eve Audio..But Neumann is pretty better.
sounds like you need to fix your set up kid. it aint the nuemans.
shame that actually uses a cheap bass unit made in China, they certainly do not have the quality of the KH420 bass drive unit.
This is a mimimi
Not sure what the native language of this presenter is, but this video would have been most likely much better if he spoke in that particular language, his native tounge. With the subtitles, I understood msot of what was being said. Also, I learned absolutely nothing about these monitors. Guy did not even jack them into an actual signal and turn them on, ha-.ha.ha. Time-a-wasted.
I very much so disliked these monitors. I purchased the three way package with the sub in 2015 I believe. They’re too sterile and very boring. Maybe great for mixing. But I could hear that they’re not what I wanted quickly! I wanted an accurate inspiring monitor. I ended up with the JBL 708P’s and KRK Sho Sub
Ehm…ok
awful take
Nah. Been living with them for two years now. They're mediocre at best. Even with the sub.
Nah my hs8s are better lil bro
😂😂😂😂
lol, i dont think so :p
Yamahas are trash. NS10s, hs5s hs8s all of them. If you like your mids severely boosted and you hate bass then theyre great
Did you ever do a review of the Event Opals?
I have a pair and really like them.
😂😂