🌟 SORRY, I accidentally deleted the Ex Machina segment. Watch it HERE: ruclips.net/video/OkA7ioqiong/видео.htmlsi=_iSfL4ERC7xMs-Pv 🌟 ➡ WHICH of THESE WOULD YOU BUY? ⬅
The pmc range was the best iv ever heard when at an event at metropolis studios, sadly too over budget for us poor northerners 😋 we’re still stuck on Adam audio and Yamaha monitors
ATC all the way, with PSI being second. If I had the space I'd have gotten the SCM45As, so maybe one day I will trade up... but I'm extremely pleased with the SCM25As!
I would defo choose the MUM-8s from PDP (Which I did, just waiting for them to be ready for installation). I do not second that notion that you want bass not tight enough from a woofer. The more accurate the bass, the easier to notice problems too. The MUM-8s don't make the bass magically better... A bad representation from a woofer is simply a bad representation, which would lead to overprocessing to fit that representation. I used to own KH310s which I already sold to get the PDP MUM-8s. The KH310 made me overprocess things, and I'm regretful I used too much compression on songs I even composed, and sang. Once I heard my mixes on the MUM-8s, I couldn't go back. After that I had no other speaker make me feel like I'm missing out, and they cost much less than other similar speakers in terms of performance. I also heard the Amphions ONE25A, ATC the big boys in GearFest, and some other ones. I still haven't got them (MUM-8s), so I wonder how will they fare in my room... but I have a feeling it will be great! It looks like you are set on the PSIs. Whatever the choice you made, I'm happy you at least narrowed it down to 2/3 best speakers with PDP MUM-8s in that list! Those guys deserve it.
u dont like speakers with digital crossovers but u wanna use trinnov? thats a funny leap. id be curious to see a tour of your studio space (from an acoustics perspective). coz if u r using this space for mixing more than tracking, things like ur desk should be far more optimised acoustically before spending coin on speakers like this. u can make atc's sound like ns10's if the acoustics are poor.
If you think about it, Trinnov is a £4k EQ/phase/time alignment computer, it is always going to be FAR more powerful than the DSP inside a £4k speaker. So it makes sense to separate the two. I’ve had a professional acoustician in to help me optimise my room. Regarding the desk, I wasn’t aware of all this when I bought it and I simply can’t change it atm. I also like the desk. And Trinnov will help 🙂
@EdThorne it is far different than speaker dsp, you can't use theory when making a opinion hence why you've test things for yourself. The phase alignment not only corrects the speakers for the room it corrects the speakers themselves. Something I would say when considering low end is to still pair a subwoofer with a 3-way. Just make sure you can put it in and out, and the crossover being removed when out. You'll find you'll want the 3-way bass to be tight as the extra sub will give you that very open window to the lower bass. I've learned this wins for myself for me original open window when testing my mix when I was young using a rave sound system to test the low end of my mix. It's there you knew exactly what your bass was doing in comparison to other mixes. It was a pure level thing. A 1db of too much or too little became instantly apparent. I then took that concept into my monitoring setup later on and went OTT with the subwoofer making sure I could turn it on and off. I found I got this window on where I had to work hard, and this window when it was off to work on the detail of the bass and transients. This is what worked best for me it might not this for you at all. The subs being work on by present day production team seems focus on zero distortion, where you seem to want some distortion. And from what I found d works for me I can completely understand where you're coming from. But, the reason why you have to physically test it for yourself is because we can't ever make a confident choice on theory alone. What is attracting me to present day production the most is the fact you can customize the system yourself, even to the drivers used. So you can have your own hand in that. They opted out of some sub drivers due to distortion, but those might be the ones that work for you. But what is standing out to me is the fact they can put you in the seat of Frankenstein. You can buy any case they make with any part missing g to add your own and I'm sure they'd even do that for you if you work closely enough with them. As long as your request doesn't add much more effort. They could even go analog on the cross over. I've thought this with their video announcing the 6 inch and the subwoofer where you can remove the 6 inch for the mid driver. I suddenly realised they would enable you to customize. I myself am thinking on a 3 subwoofer setup. Two that'll be their left and right subwoofer and a middle one that'll be my OTT sub as well as the .1 of a Atmos setup. Which means I'd need to take out the stereo pair at will also. The thi g is you can also change your own tweeters and mid-range. It becomes your own MUM essentially 😂, be it a English mother, not a Mom 😅. For me, I'm leaning towards their speakers as a means carefully sculpt my own speakers. While they are also the best value by far. If you then look at the other drivers from the companies they have used, you'll get even more juices going. I'd like to see this as a means of promoting producers and engineers all designing their own speakers essentially with companies like this being shelks for that with their own selection of shells and their own suggestions of gubbins to get you started. Like a custom kits cars that'll give you a very good starting point so you're not daunted by building from the ground up. This makes sense to me as what works objectively for each person is so unique. Something with the trinnov, is you aren't just fixing your room but also fixing the speaker itself. You do want it to be close without it as you will want to bypass it for tracking due to latency. But it will be aligning when each frequency reaches your ears even in a anechoic chamber... just simply the alignment of the sound comi g from the speakers. I'm not sure is the NOVA's have better latency, maybe look into that... for Atmos you have to have the computer model's still, unfortunately, but hope they make Atmos one's in the same way they make the NOVA'S at some point... it'll be cheaper at least if anything 😂. The trinnov isn't doing any cross overs so isn't the same as speaker dsp and speaker DSP would be much better if it had a trinnov system in each one... you'd pay heavily money wise for that. Although, could be a thing. Could be a way to have a NOVA Atmos setup... all individual channels that have a means to speak to each other. Then you could ove presents to suit all those windows you need when mixing. If they upgraded the trinnov controller greatly
@@EdThorne haha pretty much the same as you, but I haven’t begun the listening process yet, hence my 100% dedication to watching your process. I will say though, in previous comparisons done a few years ago the geithain rl901k’s sounded amazing. They would need a sub for my liking but the clarity was intense. Also they are too big for my space and I didn’t try to mix on them. I’m looking forward to your journey.
I have the PSI A23's, and they're amazing. After shooting out tons of speakers (incl. Kii Three, Neumann, Genelec++), the final showdown was between ATC SCM50asl and PSI A23. Highs: Both amazing. Mids: If ATC is 100%, PSI is 95%, ATC is a bit more forward in the mids, both have incredible depth, stereo image and phantom image. Lows: PSI wins, ATC has the extension and the volume too, but the lows plays second fiddle to the mids. The PSI's are super dynamic and enganging in the lows. My conclusion was that if you're doing vocal work, acoustic or guitar music, go ATC. If you're into more bassy genres like electronic or urban music, PSI will be that much more inspiring while still being incredible honest. A small mention about Kii Three, they sound unreal, but not in a good way for me as a producer. The stereo image is just too wide, feels like a wall of sound, very hi-fi. The bass is very big, but I just couldn't get a grip on all the elements in the mix, especially the mids didn't sit right with me. That said, impressive speakers, and great for more untreated environments.
This is great feedback! Thanks for sharing! I agree with your assessment of ATC Vs PSI. And great to hear about the Kiis. Sounds like I didn’t miss out by not trying them. Cheers.
Have the Geithain RL-906 with their 13 inch sub. Around 6k. But fantastic, HUGE sounding with SUB, very realistic for the outside world with SUB turned off, as they are SMALL cabinets, translation I find is great compared with bigger speakers. Listened to PSI, found them slightly "boring" (that is said COMING from the Quested VS2108) found Geithain being like a mix of the pleasure I had with Quested but with the analytical mind of PSI. @@EdThorne
@@MDMvision Depends which sub you have, if it's the small one you will probably need one more to keep up with the 23's. If it's the big 225 sub, then sure keep it if you want those subsonics.
Some great feedback from the Techno Legend himself! I just bought ATCs, but I’m mixing a wide variety of genres, but I really appreciate this commentary on the PSIs, as I’ve never heard them personally. Big fan, Matt. Thank you for your insight.
Oh cool, which ATC's did you get? I think ATC makes some of the best studio monitors in the world for sure, so great pick. And thank you so much man!@@jordanthurt
Every supplier worth dealing with will let you try speakers in your room. If they don't/won't they are not worth spending your money with them. Speakers are very room dependant and if you cant hear them in your room then you cant make any kind of objective choice.
We actually personally bring high-end speakers to our clients studios for them to listen to at no extra expense. We consider it essential when you're spending £10k on speakers to ensure they interact with your room favourably before committing.
Weird logic. If you’re intentionally buying a speaker with loose low end you will never “work harder” to get better bass in a recording mix. That LF will always be hidden.
“Loose” in comparison to the tightest speaker I’ve heard - the PMCs. The PSIs I chose are still tight speakers but with a fuller, richer sound. Combined with their subs, they’re actually PMC tight and Trinnov gives me the best of both worlds being able to flip between subs engaged and not.
Ex machinas are seriously the best kept secret of monitoring, my bet is this was your choice. Everyone I’ve talked to has said they’re the best speakers they’ve ever heard next to the Dutch & Dutch 8C
PSI’s are incredible! They have this “magic bloom” I like to call it. No way to reference it compared to other speakers they just have this poof of magic that’s amazing. The winner for me hands down everytime though is ATC. They speak to you, as your ears hear a certain spectrum in the organic world and spl levels/distortions/aversions outside this threshold create uncomfortabilty or attraction the ATCs will literally tell your subconscious to make adjustments, without a true world reference like that one couldn’t truly even respect the PSI’s. The ATC’s become so “one” with your brain that you can tell 2db of 30hz too much even when you can’t technically hear that from your listening position. They are bloody brilliant. If you’re reading this and it sounds ridiculous it’s because I don’t know anything I’m talking about! just go buy a pair of SCM12s and start mixing at 70-80db all day instead of at 90 lol.
The Footprint 01s are great, but I will say (having had both in my room) that the MicroMains are a different experience. The crossover to the subs is placed much lower. The midrange clarity and detail is a noticeable step up, and the sweet spot is much larger. The crossover position is the biggest weakness on the Footprint 01s IMO, and is 100% responsible for the low end tilt you're hearing. With a fairly simple room EQ, you can get them in a really good place, but the MicroMains are still absolutely a substantial upgrade. All Barefoots with the exception of the standalone MM45s will test the low end response of your room though - they really really need a room with well controlled low end. If you've got that though, it's one of the few systems I've worked on that truly supports a sub-free workflow.
That’s great feedback on the MircoMains. Thanks for the info. It was a shame I couldn’t try them. My room has a build up at 60Hz so the 01s were raging in the low end. Despite room correction likely able to solve this, I still really didn’t like the midrange or highs.
"... it's one of the few systems I've worked on that truly supports a sub-free workflow." Paradoxically, subs are often PART OF a comprehensive way to deal with low frequencies is small rooms. I find subs essential. Not for extending bass - but for CONTROLLING bass. But it takes skill to position and dial them in. If done wrong, it will make the low-end in the room even worse 😂 Now, one may counter the above with "you just have to sit in the sweet spot... then you don't need subs!" - and that's true. But realistically, it's not always practical to sit at that exact spot in the room. And furthermore: I ain't no mannequin! 😄 So... "Sub it up, pal" 🤠 I say. Get some subs. They're worth it, if you value clean, even bass.
Thank you for your review. I was between the PMC and the ATC's. With PMC being digital and lacking the mid clarity, the ATC's are a better option for me. In addition, I have a Focal Sub that i would add for playback and mastering to get a little extra low end. I mix mostly rock/folk and jazz such as Lee Ritenour and Larry Carlton type music. I just wished you also tried the Focal Trio 6 Mk II'which was supposed to have a much improved mid range over the original Trio 6.
Brother, you're ruining your head :D get the Yamaha HS 8 and learn it for 3 months... and I swear your mixes sound just like those of professionals... what's important is the references to compare... the rest is Marketing and stealing money from your pocket are no more than that
Great video! but i think we really need to approach these sounds by the goal that someone has, for example i'm mainly a producer not a mixing/mastering engineer. And i feel like if speakers are too clean or have low bass it's not as fun as producing on ones that might be not that flat but makes it more fun.
I have the impression that we are confusing speakers for mixing and speakers for mastering here, it just has to do with the frequency response, especially at the bottom. Should we distinguish between them? Kiss from France !
I’ve become a huge fan of your videos cause you’re just a no BS guy talking things honestly and covering things I wanna hear. I’ve been mixing on a pair of Adam A5X’s with a matched sub and I love my monitors but after getting to work on higher end genelecs and ATC’s it’s got me thinking about what it is I’m missing. I run an Antelope rig so I’m not hurting on the conversion front and the Ex Machina stuff’s had my attention since their interview at Sweetwater that just blew my fucking mind. I’m REALLY intrigued to hear your thoughts on them in that next video in 2 weeks!
Thanks, Jonathan. The Adam’s are great speakers. The beryllium tweeters are exceptional. The woofers could be better though for the mids and lows. The video in two weeks will offer more info on why I bought the pair I did. Clues can also be found on my Instagram and Working Audio Tools podcast 😉
Well your adventure just made me realise there is no perfect speaker and the worst in your environment could be the best in my environment. And at the end of thr day i might just choose any high end speaker and learn to work with them. I have seen videos of people mixing and mastering on Barefoot monitors
Love my Genelec system with sub. The GLM software dials it all right in and have not had the same high end freq issue you spoke of. I wonder if there was an issue or if they were calibrated properly. To be fair I also don’t mix / listen at high volumes either. For me the Genelec beat out the Focal Trio11 that I demoed. I think monitors are like an anything else. It’s really up to the end user (like you basically said) and what they like and what they are looking for. Still a great video and always appreciate the content.
Hey Ed. I would so dig if you'd elaborate a bit (just here, in a comment) what you don't like about Genelec monitors. Asking because I finally tested a Genelec today, for the first time, and was quite disappointed. It was an 8381A. Listened both with and without room correction: but no matter what it sounded to me like a pair of giant iLoud Micro Monitors. Undefined, bloated bass. It's like they're compressing the dynamics on the amp or driver level. As if there was a 3-band (3-way) multiband compressor with instant-fast attack and release active at all times, at considerable threshold but low ratio (1.1:1 or such). Best way I can describe it. A Barefoot MicroMain 35 I tested was the exact opposite: quite dynamic, not as polite. More "in-your-face". Kinda like a lil' PA speaker. But please, if you could elaborate on you Genelec take 🙏 They really divide the waters. Some love 'em, some hate 'em. Yet "on paper" they measure splendidly.
Really glad to see that someone has done a video with HIGHER end speakers in modern day, especially including the PDP's, was very curious about those, but in the States, I don't know how easy it would be to demo.
Hopefully it was useful. I know they’ve sent a few pairs to the states already. Maybe contact Mark and James and ask. It may be they send a set over there for demo purposes.
Wow, its really nice that you got to test in your room and actually Mix that way. No way you can do that in the US unless you are a multi-million dollar customer. However, I was lucky to be able to spend nearly 6 hours with one of my own mixes in Logic Pro with many of the pairs you tried, finally settling on the ATCs. And even though they do sound different in my room, the way I mix on them and the way they translate is the same. I had to laugh, I hated the Barefoots right way too. And I hated the Focal Trios as well. They are some of the harshest speakers I've ever heard. The PSIs were excellent, but at least here in the US they are about $2k more than the ATCs and the midrange on the ATCs is so incredible, I just couldn't find its peer. Its fascinating how subjective it all is! And I'm thankful that there are so many choices. I'm hoping to add a Trinnov Nova later this year as well (using Sonarworks right now), and I think at that point I will be a a great place.
Great video, Ed! When you say the PSIs are lacking in midrange detail vs the ATC and PDP, do you mean by a lot or only by a small amount? Is what you lose in midrange worth it when you compare it to what you gain in low end reproduction and front-to-back depth? Also, you described the PSI as being scooped in comparison to the ATC - do you think the midrange is lacking in volume / amplitude (in which case the Trinnov would help?), or do you mean that the midrange lacks "forwardness", or detail, or maybe something else?
Hi Richard, thank you. The midrange is not lacking any detail, the detail is immense but it isn’t as forward/it’s not the dominant frequency band like it is on the ATCs (or the low end is on the Barefoots etc). The opposite scoop images were just how I imagine the dominant areas. The detail on these three speakers you’ve mentioned in particular is incredible. The PSIs gave me the deepest back to front imaging, Along side the Ex Machina’s.
Thanks for the comparison video. I know you tested PMC 6-2 in your studio and PMC6 at a store (I saw you listening to PMC6 in a different video). I'm trying to choose between PMC6 and Hedd type20 and curious what you've said (the good things) apply to PMC6 as well.
Hi, you’re very welcome. I haven’t heard the HEDD speakers but I know their company lineage extends from Adam Audio and ‘apparently’ they have a similar sonic signature. If that’s the case the top end will be incredible but the low end will sound plasticky (as the Adam’s do to me). The PMCs 6 are INCREDIBLE speakers and come very close to delivering like a 3-way speaker in terms of dispersion and frequency extension. I’d level them a 2.5-way speaker - better than your standard 2-way but not quite a 3-way. They’re crisp, tight, and punchy. I loved how they sounded and would love a set as a second pair sometime (these and/or the Ex Machina’s!)
Unsolicited opinion: go PMC. I ordered a set of HEDD type20 and a sub recently. The Right type20 was malfunctioning out of the box and their customer service was pretty garbage. I’ve sent them back and have EM Pulsars on the way instead.
@EdThorne thats my favorite video from you . I believe quality is subjactive , i am not sure about perfomance but neumann makes the most transparent studio monitors in the market , they are up there with genelec , all those high end brands are great but not true studio monitors , i can guarantee you that out of all those studio monitors non of them measures as flat as the Neumann KH 150 ( Frequency response ) . My advice would be to keep the 5" neumanns alongside your new higher end speakers .
Yeh, I don’t think side address bass speakers are for me but everyone raves about the Kii’s so I remain impartial to the concept. But yeh, I hated the Barefoots, lol. Unfortunately I couldn’t truly the micro mains. They’re the model everyone raves about.
He said Genelec sounds clinical… but the Neumann monitors or way more clinical in my opinion. I chose the Genelec 8361a over the Neumann’s. Genelec are definitely end game monitors.
I immediately found identifying problems the quickest on the PSIs and Ex Machina’s. Almost, to the point where I was hearing too many problems and over-mixing… I haven’t heard the smaller models. I wanted a three way so it was the 23s or 25s.
@@EdThorne I have worked on PSI 17s (6" woofers) compared to Focal SM9's which were more on the hifi side. With the PSI my experience was that I was able to stay stare the mix, what was happening without starting to tweek stuff without knowing why. Which is what I found best, as I could concentrate and find out the best solution each time. And I was able to deliver a more natural, open, result that translated better in all speakers that I have tested. Although I ended up working with APS Coax + Subs. It was the combo I could hear the most of 3d sound, depth of field, accurate transients, and unlocolored low end extention due to the separated subs that don't interfere with the coax mid and tweeter. It was a bit treaky to set it up, and align the phase and set the crossover filters between subs + coaxes, but once you set it up in the analog domain, without dsp, then you can add Trinnov or Acourate from Audio Vero and get the best of both worlds. I'm using acourate, I found both better solutions (APS + Acourate) and less expensive than PSI and Trinnov (monitors and dsp). Bob Katz uses Acourate also. It's a bit more tricky also to set it up, but it's an amazing tool to learn.
@@EdThorne How did the PSIs compare to the ATCs? In many professional studios the big in-wall ATCs are a natural choice. I wonder how you found the SCM25s to be... (it seemed that you sorted them out for some reason - I can totally accept that, but would like to hear why! :) Were they too bass-light, or too "pastelle" sounding for the price? (I'm using 20 year old SCM20 actives, and love them, but I'd be intrigued to go with PSIs either! Both amazing speakers. On the contrary, I've heard PMC Result6s and absolutely despised them.)
I had genelec 8260. I wanted to reach more natural sounds... so sold it. Dsp is not the smartest way to go. I discovered PSI. Everything was better. Then is discovered that I need tube amp and analogue passive speaker to reach my ultimate destination. I bought daniel hertz m7b + stereo subs. Im a happy camper now.
Have you tried the Telegrapher Gorillas ? They’re priced around the same and launched at NAAM. The guys were super cool and the speakers looked and sounded awesome !
I haven't tried them yet, as they were launched at NAMM last week but I've spoken to Kevin and have a set on the way to demo. I've heard incredible things (from their rep, lol.)
What would you recommend to a guy with a small room mixing everything from classical to rock to electronic music? I used to have the very original KRK Rokits (when they were all grey) and a samson amp. Room will have little in the way of acoustic treatment as its also a bedroom.
In an un-treated room I’d use good headphones with a great DAC/HP Amp. If set on speakers, depends on your budget. Neumann KH120s or Adam A7Xs to PSI A17s.
@@EdThorne thanks for the reply! I currently use m50x's through an RME babyface. I get flareups with my eczema currently and want to let the skin breath a little. I also want to be a little more untethered.
@@EdThorne highly recommend as a tool. Even if you don't like them, I'd at least grab the one12 as a B pair for mid check. I'm a very new One15 user. I demo'd them in a crappy untreated room, mixed to the best of my ability, and went to the car once when it was all done. What did I find? Regardless of my challenges the mix translated extremely well. Never had that happen on another pair of monitors even at a similar price point. Really. Just try them...just try them. Do one mix from start to finish on them. Truuuuuust.
I've tested many of them (except the PMC and MUM, but guys from PDP are ATC fanboys so i can have an idea) and still pull my trigger on One15 for mixing duties. Pulsars are amazing, the sound from NASA but many things sound too impressive on these. I still believe that on this price tag actually every speaker is amazing enough and the final decision should be made from personal preferences and these can be very different.
@@bingybeats189 Yeah, One15 are magical in some way. I don't want anything else even Ex Machinas! They sound sci-fi better but they don't help me making my mixes better, Amphions do!
Now that you have figured out what NOT to do (have monitors with any reflective surfaces around (your desk,) try different ways to isolate your speakers from whatever they are sitting on (spikes work best, but also try different materials under the spikes, wood, fiberglass, delrin, etc..., etc...,) you need to go back and try the Neumanns that irritated you so much. Clearly you did not have them set up properly, and blamed the speakers. BTW, for another huge boost, especially in depth, get that monitor out of the center of your listening area. I know it is a big trend to set it up that way, but it does more harm then good where it is. It is causing horrible reflections and killing all the "breathing" room that allows for a 3D dimensionality and pan placement between your monitors. Remember sound comes from all around your speakers, like an omnidirectional mic pattern, which is why cabinet design is critical to speaker sound. Try to get the top edge of the monitor at least as low as the bottom plane of your speakers, but lower would be better. I'd pull out the rack gear you have in the middle of your desk and cut whatever you need to in the desk/cabinet to fit the monitor down there. Same goes for anything else near, around, or in-between your monitors (like that sweatshirt.) If your monitors stay on the same shelf of your desk, bring them forward all the way to the front edge, and when doing critical mixes, use sound deadening materials to cover up all of the racked gear, and the next shelf down, because you are getting reflections off of all of that. If I HAD to use the desk, I would use speaker stands at least 8" high to get them off of the problems that shelf presents, but you will still have reflections. Don't discount cables, either. Once your system is of sufficient quality, you will hear differences in high-quality cables compared to the run-of-the-mill stuff you can buy at a music store. I recommend at least Mogami Neglex 3080 Digital Audio Cable, and run it in the same direction from source to destination as the writing on the wire. You are going in the right direction - question every little piece of gear in your entire chain, and continue to experiment to make it better. 55 years of audio experience speaking here. Good Luck!
I already know the Adam sound, and although wonderful in the top end, I don’t like them below 1k. Also the A series are nowhere near the same price point as these guys, and therefore, not going to be in the same league.
But as one who is an acoustician with extensive knowledge of loudspeaker design and testing, and after testing the PMC 6 monitors and Adam A77H's side-by-side, I was severely impressed with how the Adam's held up and how negligible the differences were. In fact, I almost preferred the Adams as they were sort of less fatiguing in the high end than the PMCs. Possibly, a benefit of ribbon tweeters, or so I now hear about when reviewing the available literature/research. I also found the new Adams to have a very tight low-end in comparison to the old AX monitors with the weird overly boxy low-mids to be a thing of the past. By far the cleanest best bang for the buck pair of monitors money can buy within the £3k price range. So to suggest they are not in the same league I would say is a moot point and does not come from a place of total objectivity. But I suppose that is the issue with these types of videos. They're never usually objective and since we all perceive sound differently and prefer different 'curves' et al. no two people are ever going to have the same 'top 5' choices for loudspeaker units. @@EdThorne
@@EdThorne oh I would have thought they would come out at under 10 grand due to euro - pound conversion. RL944 and 903 are their slightly more affordable options for neafield 3-ways.
I got the footprint 03 Highly recommend, they are not very big and allow you to hear many aspects of the track in any size room. If you are a project producer working in a home studio or mixing set up, Highly recommend, especially with the remote, I am surprised at how much it makes you listen to many parts of the track with the remote. I use it way more than I thought and its great for getting your ears to pay attention to different frequency spectrums one at a time.
Thanks for this video Ed! Incredibly helpful. How did you feel the PDP silk dome compared with the other monitors here? I know you mentioned more clarity out of the beryllium similar to the PSI, but did you find the silk dome to be that much more "soft" sounding than the others? Would you have even considered the silk domes version of the PDP monitors against the other monitors? Thanks!
Great video Ed…..but not sure I can bear the suspense!! Can’t wait to learn what you decided upon…..Also any progress on the RME interface front? I noticed the upgrade to the X16, so is that what you have decided to settle on for now?
Thanks. You may get a clue if you follow my Insta/Working Audio Tools podcast😉 I’m back logged on content so haven’t looked into RME yet. I’ll make a note for the NY. I was fortunate to be able to swap the X8P for the X16 with UA. made sense with the outboard.
@@EdThorne thanks for the heads up! Totally understand, as it seems like you are dropping a lot of content, which is all the stuff I am very interested in right now! Well the X16 swap sounded like a no brainer. Do you think the upgrade is significant in terms of the converters?
@riasure It’s a noticeable upgrade on the X6 which was running my speakers previously. It provides a more expansive and open top end. It’s not a huge difference but at this level you’re well into diminishing returns.
@@EdThorne thanks for sharing your honest opinion. If UA are getting close to releasing some new interfaces I will hold off, but to be honest it taking too long, so I am very close to pulling the trigger on RME. Although, I have heard very good things about X16 but that’s out of my price range unfortunately.. I am looking forward to seeing what’s coming next from you😄
@@EdThorne do you use the inbuilt volume/monitor controller, or did you go with something external? (Crane Song Avocet/Grace m905/Benchmark LA4/Heritage Audiod RAM/etc)
I'm upgrading to Tannoy Gold 7's...but later I hope to upgrade to something like the PSI's. I realize after 1.5 yrs of audio production, there is no such thing as flat speakers, BUT rather 'flatter' speakers. And even then, it doesn't mean your mixing decisions will translate from those monitors to other sources. I believe the decisions the monitors make you take matter a lot more than the flatness of speakers in the context of translation. Is this conclusion correct?
I’m not even convinced it’s about “flatness”. It’s about what your priorities are/needs from a speaker. I may change my mind in a few years but the ones I bought are really working for me atm. 🤘
I'm coming into some money this year and I have the whole thing planned out to upgrade my entire studio... I started in 2000 when I first got into making music, but now its my full time job. 10 years ago, I spent 50k on building a studio room - starting with the acoustics first of all - which cost the most of everything to really get it as flat as possible in there. No point having all this gear in a terrible room. Ive been through 5 sets of increasing quality monitors, the last pair I got were the K&H0300s (now owned by Neumann I think) Ive tried Adam P33A, A7s, Mackie.. Gonna go with an Apollo UAD interface, but swapping out my old Benchmark DAC for a Burl and running everything external back into the DAW with an additional Burl ADC. For mastering, Ill be adding a Rupert Neve Bus Transformer and a Tube Tech 2B Multiband mastering compressor... And finally, going for the ATC SCM45A MKII monitors. After much deliberation.. Also, just to make sure everything is as perfect in the room as possible - an IK ARC Room Correction box and mic.
If you can stretch to it, I can’t recommend Trinnov enough for room correction. It’s in a league of own compared to Sound iD, ARC, and MA1. My top three speakers were PSI, Ex Machina, and PDP MUM8s.
They’re good speakers for sure but they’re not in the same price bracket as the PSI/Ex Machina’s/ATCs. Not that price is everything but it’s a very good indicator of quality at this level. It’s incremental returns though at this point.
@@EdThorne I just want to know if you could pick one pair or monitors between atc scm 25 , PMC 6 or PSI (idk which) which one would be your top choice to mix and master all your tracks? (I mainly want to do hip hop and rnb but im open for any other choices too but give me one name please :))
I’ve synced heard them and they are very nice speakers. Kinda what the ATCs should be if they had better low end and more spacious top end. They feel like they lack power though.
Those Footprints would not be great in a small room on a desk IMO. I have them in a my B room and absolutely love them. I also have Gen MM27s in my main room and absolutely love them. I don't work in a specific genre of music and find these cover all of my work extremely well.
Yeah, makes sense.. Also, BTW when you mentioned the Iso Pucks, it reminded me of a thing in relation to the Barefoots (all that have the dual force sub drivers).. was that you can put a plastic cup of water on the top and play some crazy loud content... you won't see a ripple on the top of the water...The dual force subs make this amazing.
If the mix is better then these people who are more down the line will enjoy it more too. The better the mix, the better it will sound even on a mobile phone. If you limit yourself to a bad pair of speakers while mixing, you probably won’t be able to consistently make good sounding records.
🌟 SORRY, I accidentally deleted the Ex Machina segment. Watch it HERE: ruclips.net/video/OkA7ioqiong/видео.htmlsi=_iSfL4ERC7xMs-Pv 🌟
➡ WHICH of THESE WOULD YOU BUY? ⬅
I would have to hear them to decide . With the Trinnov attached the list could change. I think your top 3 is PSI,ATC, PDP 😉
The pmc range was the best iv ever heard when at an event at metropolis studios, sadly too over budget for us poor northerners 😋 we’re still stuck on Adam audio and Yamaha monitors
ATC all the way, with PSI being second. If I had the space I'd have gotten the SCM45As, so maybe one day I will trade up... but I'm extremely pleased with the SCM25As!
I would defo choose the MUM-8s from PDP (Which I did, just waiting for them to be ready for installation). I do not second that notion that you want bass not tight enough from a woofer. The more accurate the bass, the easier to notice problems too. The MUM-8s don't make the bass magically better...
A bad representation from a woofer is simply a bad representation, which would lead to overprocessing to fit that representation. I used to own KH310s which I already sold to get the PDP MUM-8s. The KH310 made me overprocess things, and I'm regretful I used too much compression on songs I even composed, and sang. Once I heard my mixes on the MUM-8s, I couldn't go back. After that I had no other speaker make me feel like I'm missing out, and they cost much less than other similar speakers in terms of performance. I also heard the Amphions ONE25A, ATC the big boys in GearFest, and some other ones.
I still haven't got them (MUM-8s), so I wonder how will they fare in my room... but I have a feeling it will be great!
It looks like you are set on the PSIs. Whatever the choice you made, I'm happy you at least narrowed it down to 2/3 best speakers with PDP MUM-8s in that list! Those guys deserve it.
@@MichalMikulskiMM definitely let me know how they perform in your room!
u dont like speakers with digital crossovers but u wanna use trinnov? thats a funny leap. id be curious to see a tour of your studio space (from an acoustics perspective). coz if u r using this space for mixing more than tracking, things like ur desk should be far more optimised acoustically before spending coin on speakers like this. u can make atc's sound like ns10's if the acoustics are poor.
If you think about it, Trinnov is a £4k EQ/phase/time alignment computer, it is always going to be FAR more powerful than the DSP inside a £4k speaker. So it makes sense to separate the two. I’ve had a professional acoustician in to help me optimise my room. Regarding the desk, I wasn’t aware of all this when I bought it and I simply can’t change it atm. I also like the desk. And Trinnov will help 🙂
@EdThorne it is far different than speaker dsp, you can't use theory when making a opinion hence why you've test things for yourself.
The phase alignment not only corrects the speakers for the room it corrects the speakers themselves.
Something I would say when considering low end is to still pair a subwoofer with a 3-way.
Just make sure you can put it in and out, and the crossover being removed when out.
You'll find you'll want the 3-way bass to be tight as the extra sub will give you that very open window to the lower bass.
I've learned this wins for myself for me original open window when testing my mix when I was young using a rave sound system to test the low end of my mix.
It's there you knew exactly what your bass was doing in comparison to other mixes.
It was a pure level thing.
A 1db of too much or too little became instantly apparent.
I then took that concept into my monitoring setup later on and went OTT with the subwoofer making sure I could turn it on and off.
I found I got this window on where I had to work hard, and this window when it was off to work on the detail of the bass and transients.
This is what worked best for me it might not this for you at all.
The subs being work on by present day production team seems focus on zero distortion, where you seem to want some distortion.
And from what I found d works for me I can completely understand where you're coming from.
But, the reason why you have to physically test it for yourself is because we can't ever make a confident choice on theory alone.
What is attracting me to present day production the most is the fact you can customize the system yourself, even to the drivers used.
So you can have your own hand in that.
They opted out of some sub drivers due to distortion, but those might be the ones that work for you.
But what is standing out to me is the fact they can put you in the seat of Frankenstein.
You can buy any case they make with any part missing g to add your own and I'm sure they'd even do that for you if you work closely enough with them.
As long as your request doesn't add much more effort.
They could even go analog on the cross over.
I've thought this with their video announcing the 6 inch and the subwoofer where you can remove the 6 inch for the mid driver.
I suddenly realised they would enable you to customize.
I myself am thinking on a 3 subwoofer setup.
Two that'll be their left and right subwoofer and a middle one that'll be my OTT sub as well as the .1 of a Atmos setup.
Which means I'd need to take out the stereo pair at will also.
The thi g is you can also change your own tweeters and mid-range.
It becomes your own MUM essentially 😂, be it a English mother, not a Mom 😅.
For me, I'm leaning towards their speakers as a means carefully sculpt my own speakers.
While they are also the best value by far.
If you then look at the other drivers from the companies they have used, you'll get even more juices going.
I'd like to see this as a means of promoting producers and engineers all designing their own speakers essentially with companies like this being shelks for that with their own selection of shells and their own suggestions of gubbins to get you started.
Like a custom kits cars that'll give you a very good starting point so you're not daunted by building from the ground up.
This makes sense to me as what works objectively for each person is so unique.
Something with the trinnov, is you aren't just fixing your room but also fixing the speaker itself.
You do want it to be close without it as you will want to bypass it for tracking due to latency.
But it will be aligning when each frequency reaches your ears even in a anechoic chamber... just simply the alignment of the sound comi g from the speakers.
I'm not sure is the NOVA's have better latency, maybe look into that... for Atmos you have to have the computer model's still, unfortunately, but hope they make Atmos one's in the same way they make the NOVA'S at some point... it'll be cheaper at least if anything 😂.
The trinnov isn't doing any cross overs so isn't the same as speaker dsp and speaker DSP would be much better if it had a trinnov system in each one... you'd pay heavily money wise for that.
Although, could be a thing.
Could be a way to have a NOVA Atmos setup... all individual channels that have a means to speak to each other.
Then you could ove presents to suit all those windows you need when mixing.
If they upgraded the trinnov controller greatly
pmc 62 or atc ?
Personally, I preferred the PMCs out of those two. But I totally understanding why ATCs are so popular.
Love my PSI A23-M with Trinnov
KILLER combination! Subs too?
@@EdThorne I tested with sub but my room is not so big so only A23-M is enough for me :).
Love this.... I'm in the same position
Oooh, nice. What are you considering?
@@EdThorne haha pretty much the same as you, but I haven’t begun the listening process yet, hence my 100% dedication to watching your process.
I will say though, in previous comparisons done a few years ago the geithain rl901k’s sounded amazing. They would need a sub for my liking but the clarity was intense. Also they are too big for my space and I didn’t try to mix on them. I’m looking forward to your journey.
@@EdThorne I should add, Ex Machina and MUM-8's were top of my list to listen to.
I have the PSI A23's, and they're amazing. After shooting out tons of speakers (incl. Kii Three, Neumann, Genelec++), the final showdown was between ATC SCM50asl and PSI A23. Highs: Both amazing. Mids: If ATC is 100%, PSI is 95%, ATC is a bit more forward in the mids, both have incredible depth, stereo image and phantom image. Lows: PSI wins, ATC has the extension and the volume too, but the lows plays second fiddle to the mids. The PSI's are super dynamic and enganging in the lows. My conclusion was that if you're doing vocal work, acoustic or guitar music, go ATC. If you're into more bassy genres like electronic or urban music, PSI will be that much more inspiring while still being incredible honest.
A small mention about Kii Three, they sound unreal, but not in a good way for me as a producer. The stereo image is just too wide, feels like a wall of sound, very hi-fi. The bass is very big, but I just couldn't get a grip on all the elements in the mix, especially the mids didn't sit right with me. That said, impressive speakers, and great for more untreated environments.
This is great feedback! Thanks for sharing! I agree with your assessment of ATC Vs PSI. And great to hear about the Kiis. Sounds like I didn’t miss out by not trying them. Cheers.
Have the Geithain RL-906 with their 13 inch sub. Around 6k. But fantastic, HUGE sounding with SUB, very realistic for the outside world with SUB turned off, as they are SMALL cabinets, translation I find is great compared with bigger speakers. Listened to PSI, found them slightly "boring" (that is said COMING from the Quested VS2108) found Geithain being like a mix of the pleasure I had with Quested but with the analytical mind of PSI. @@EdThorne
@@MDMvision Depends which sub you have, if it's the small one you will probably need one more to keep up with the 23's. If it's the big 225 sub, then sure keep it if you want those subsonics.
Some great feedback from the Techno Legend himself! I just bought ATCs, but I’m mixing a wide variety of genres, but I really appreciate this commentary on the PSIs, as I’ve never heard them personally. Big fan, Matt. Thank you for your insight.
Oh cool, which ATC's did you get? I think ATC makes some of the best studio monitors in the world for sure, so great pick. And thank you so much man!@@jordanthurt
That's awesome that they all let you trial the speakers
Perks of being a RUclipsr ;-)
Every supplier worth dealing with will let you try speakers in your room. If they don't/won't they are not worth spending your money with them. Speakers are very room dependant and if you cant hear them in your room then you cant make any kind of objective choice.
We actually personally bring high-end speakers to our clients studios for them to listen to at no extra expense. We consider it essential when you're spending £10k on speakers to ensure they interact with your room favourably before committing.
@@EdThornei might need to become a more youtubier youtuber
Amphions not good looking speakers?They look great.Anyways nice video.Thanks!
Weird logic. If you’re intentionally buying a speaker with loose low end you will never “work harder” to get better bass in a recording mix. That LF will always be hidden.
“Loose” in comparison to the tightest speaker I’ve heard - the PMCs. The PSIs I chose are still tight speakers but with a fuller, richer sound. Combined with their subs, they’re actually PMC tight and Trinnov gives me the best of both worlds being able to flip between subs engaged and not.
Amphions are insane
I agree - for mixing they are so detailed. But think the MUMs are the winner for Ed.
@richertz Haha…. Watch this space😜 Or watch the Working Audio Tools podcast channel for a sneak preview😉
@@EdThorne can't wait ! I think @richertz is right !
Ex machinas are seriously the best kept secret of monitoring, my bet is this was your choice. Everyone I’ve talked to has said they’re the best speakers they’ve ever heard next to the Dutch & Dutch 8C
They are possibly the best speaker I’ve heard. I couldn’t get hold of the D&Ds for this comparison unfortunately.
PSI’s are incredible! They have this “magic bloom” I like to call it. No way to reference it compared to other speakers they just have this poof of magic that’s amazing. The winner for me hands down everytime though is ATC. They speak to you, as your ears hear a certain spectrum in the organic world and spl levels/distortions/aversions outside this threshold create uncomfortabilty or attraction the ATCs will literally tell your subconscious to make adjustments, without a true world reference like that one couldn’t truly even respect the PSI’s. The ATC’s become so “one” with your brain that you can tell 2db of 30hz too much even when you can’t technically hear that from your listening position. They are bloody brilliant. If you’re reading this and it sounds ridiculous it’s because I don’t know anything I’m talking about! just go buy a pair of SCM12s and start mixing at 70-80db all day instead of at 90 lol.
I ended up with Yamaha NS-690 mkii on iso acoustics. $600 speakers best value with more detail than A7X or those Neumanns
The Footprint 01s are great, but I will say (having had both in my room) that the MicroMains are a different experience. The crossover to the subs is placed much lower. The midrange clarity and detail is a noticeable step up, and the sweet spot is much larger. The crossover position is the biggest weakness on the Footprint 01s IMO, and is 100% responsible for the low end tilt you're hearing. With a fairly simple room EQ, you can get them in a really good place, but the MicroMains are still absolutely a substantial upgrade. All Barefoots with the exception of the standalone MM45s will test the low end response of your room though - they really really need a room with well controlled low end. If you've got that though, it's one of the few systems I've worked on that truly supports a sub-free workflow.
That’s great feedback on the MircoMains. Thanks for the info. It was a shame I couldn’t try them. My room has a build up at 60Hz so the 01s were raging in the low end. Despite room correction likely able to solve this, I still really didn’t like the midrange or highs.
"... it's one of the few systems I've worked on that truly supports a sub-free workflow."
Paradoxically, subs are often PART OF a comprehensive way to deal with low frequencies is small rooms. I find subs essential. Not for extending bass - but for CONTROLLING bass.
But it takes skill to position and dial them in. If done wrong, it will make the low-end in the room even worse 😂
Now, one may counter the above with "you just have to sit in the sweet spot... then you don't need subs!" - and that's true. But realistically, it's not always practical to sit at that exact spot in the room. And furthermore: I ain't no mannequin! 😄
So... "Sub it up, pal" 🤠 I say. Get some subs. They're worth it, if you value clean, even bass.
Upgraded to Footprint 02’s from HS8’s. Really pleased. Best monitors I’ve owned to date.
As a MicroMain35 owner, I can attest to your sub-remark. I don't miss a sub with them. They go DEEP. And retain control and power doing so.
Wait so what about the Ex Machina's??
I’ve just realised I managed to delete the segment in the editing process by accident. I’ll put it in the next video.
If you like midrange the HEDD Type 30 are incredible.. And priced perfectly.
Thank you for your review. I was between the PMC and the ATC's. With PMC being digital and lacking the mid clarity, the ATC's are a better option for me. In addition, I have a Focal Sub that i would add for playback and mastering to get a little extra low end. I mix mostly rock/folk and jazz such as Lee Ritenour and Larry Carlton type music.
I just wished you also tried the Focal Trio 6 Mk II'which was supposed to have a much improved mid range over the original Trio 6.
Brother, you're ruining your head :D get the Yamaha HS 8 and learn it for 3 months... and I swear your mixes sound just like those of professionals... what's important is the references to compare... the rest is Marketing and stealing money from your pocket are no more than that
u think u can get better results with those vs a atc 25?
Great video Ed. Cheers
Thanks.
Yes , also did a ton of monitor tests . Psi win for the music i do .
They’re incredible speakers!
so what about the Pulsars? did that section get edited out?
FFS, that’s so random. I definitely recorded the segment and edited it and now for some reason it isn’t in the video 🤣 I’ll put it next one.
Great video! but i think we really need to approach these sounds by the goal that someone has, for example i'm mainly a producer not a mixing/mastering engineer. And i feel like if speakers are too clean or have low bass it's not as fun as producing on ones that might be not that flat but makes it more fun.
Did he just say that the PMC 6-2s were too good? 🤔 I'd like to hear them in the XBD setup.
I have the impression that we are confusing speakers for mixing and speakers for mastering here, it just has to do with the frequency response, especially at the bottom. Should we distinguish between them? Kiss from France !
I’ve become a huge fan of your videos cause you’re just a no BS guy talking things honestly and covering things I wanna hear. I’ve been mixing on a pair of Adam A5X’s with a matched sub and I love my monitors but after getting to work on higher end genelecs and ATC’s it’s got me thinking about what it is I’m missing. I run an Antelope rig so I’m not hurting on the conversion front and the Ex Machina stuff’s had my attention since their interview at Sweetwater that just blew my fucking mind. I’m REALLY intrigued to hear your thoughts on them in that next video in 2 weeks!
Thanks, Jonathan. The Adam’s are great speakers. The beryllium tweeters are exceptional. The woofers could be better though for the mids and lows. The video in two weeks will offer more info on why I bought the pair I did. Clues can also be found on my Instagram and Working Audio Tools podcast 😉
Well your adventure just made me realise there is no perfect speaker and the worst in your environment could be the best in my environment. And at the end of thr day i might just choose any high end speaker and learn to work with them. I have seen videos of people mixing and mastering on Barefoot monitors
It’s 50% what speaker works for you and 50% getting to know them in your room. This video took me 2.5min the to research. 🤘
Love my Genelec system with sub. The GLM software dials it all right in and have not had the same high end freq issue you spoke of. I wonder if there was an issue or if they were calibrated properly. To be fair I also don’t mix / listen at high volumes either. For me the Genelec beat out the Focal Trio11 that I demoed. I think monitors are like an anything else. It’s really up to the end user (like you basically said) and what they like and what they are looking for. Still a great video and always appreciate the content.
Thanks. The Genelecs are very good speakers, it’s just a matter of personal taste.
Best speaker ever
for me if i had to do it again witch i have too..they will be certified for atmos dolby mixxing...
I’m about to buy the PMC 6-2 for my studio 🎉🎉🎉
I love these speakers. I really enjoyed listening to them!
Hey Ed. I would so dig if you'd elaborate a bit (just here, in a comment) what you don't like about Genelec monitors.
Asking because I finally tested a Genelec today, for the first time, and was quite disappointed.
It was an 8381A. Listened both with and without room correction: but no matter what it sounded to me like a pair of giant iLoud Micro Monitors. Undefined, bloated bass. It's like they're compressing the dynamics on the amp or driver level. As if there was a 3-band (3-way) multiband compressor with instant-fast attack and release active at all times, at considerable threshold but low ratio (1.1:1 or such).
Best way I can describe it.
A Barefoot MicroMain 35 I tested was the exact opposite: quite dynamic, not as polite. More "in-your-face". Kinda like a lil' PA speaker.
But please, if you could elaborate on you Genelec take 🙏 They really divide the waters. Some love 'em, some hate 'em. Yet "on paper" they measure splendidly.
Really glad to see that someone has done a video with HIGHER end speakers in modern day, especially including the PDP's, was very curious about those, but in the States, I don't know how easy it would be to demo.
Hopefully it was useful. I know they’ve sent a few pairs to the states already. Maybe contact Mark and James and ask. It may be they send a set over there for demo purposes.
Wow, its really nice that you got to test in your room and actually Mix that way. No way you can do that in the US unless you are a multi-million dollar customer.
However, I was lucky to be able to spend nearly 6 hours with one of my own mixes in Logic Pro with many of the pairs you tried, finally settling on the ATCs. And even though they do sound different in my room, the way I mix on them and the way they translate is the same.
I had to laugh, I hated the Barefoots right way too. And I hated the Focal Trios as well. They are some of the harshest speakers I've ever heard. The PSIs were excellent, but at least here in the US they are about $2k more than the ATCs and the midrange on the ATCs is so incredible, I just couldn't find its peer.
Its fascinating how subjective it all is! And I'm thankful that there are so many choices.
I'm hoping to add a Trinnov Nova later this year as well (using Sonarworks right now), and I think at that point I will be a a great place.
Awesome video, Ed! ... Loads of really useful, honest info.. just what we like to see/hear!
Top work 👍
Cheers, M.
Thanks, Mike. 🔥
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video, Ed! When you say the PSIs are lacking in midrange detail vs the ATC and PDP, do you mean by a lot or only by a small amount? Is what you lose in midrange worth it when you compare it to what you gain in low end reproduction and front-to-back depth? Also, you described the PSI as being scooped in comparison to the ATC - do you think the midrange is lacking in volume / amplitude (in which case the Trinnov would help?), or do you mean that the midrange lacks "forwardness", or detail, or maybe something else?
Hi Richard, thank you. The midrange is not lacking any detail, the detail is immense but it isn’t as forward/it’s not the dominant frequency band like it is on the ATCs (or the low end is on the Barefoots etc). The opposite scoop images were just how I imagine the dominant areas. The detail on these three speakers you’ve mentioned in particular is incredible. The PSIs gave me the deepest back to front imaging, Along side the Ex Machina’s.
@@EdThorne Ah, got it - thanks for the reply!
Thanks for the comparison video. I know you tested PMC 6-2 in your studio and PMC6 at a store (I saw you listening to PMC6 in a different video). I'm trying to choose between PMC6 and Hedd type20 and curious what you've said (the good things) apply to PMC6 as well.
Hi, you’re very welcome. I haven’t heard the HEDD speakers but I know their company lineage extends from Adam Audio and ‘apparently’ they have a similar sonic signature. If that’s the case the top end will be incredible but the low end will sound plasticky (as the Adam’s do to me). The PMCs 6 are INCREDIBLE speakers and come very close to delivering like a 3-way speaker in terms of dispersion and frequency extension. I’d level them a 2.5-way speaker - better than your standard 2-way but not quite a 3-way. They’re crisp, tight, and punchy. I loved how they sounded and would love a set as a second pair sometime (these and/or the Ex Machina’s!)
Unsolicited opinion: go PMC. I ordered a set of HEDD type20 and a sub recently. The Right type20 was malfunctioning out of the box and their customer service was pretty garbage. I’ve sent them back and have EM Pulsars on the way instead.
I would get the Neumann KH 150's , those are true monitors
One of my recent videos discuses why I’m moving away from Neumann’s. Also, the speakers in this video are in another league to Neumann
@EdThorne thats my favorite video from you . I believe quality is subjactive , i am not sure about perfomance but neumann makes the most transparent studio monitors in the market , they are up there with genelec , all those high end brands are great but not true studio monitors , i can guarantee you that out of all those studio monitors non of them measures as flat as the Neumann KH 150 ( Frequency response ) . My advice would be to keep the 5" neumanns alongside your new higher end speakers .
@@beattorrentsweeper5477 dutch and dutch 8c are a notch above in neutrality, but neumann are second !
I think you may be deluded re digital, but each to their own!
I may be changing my mind. Watch this space…
I don’t like the way mixes sound that were done on the barefoots
I don’t understand how people can mix on them. I understand why DJs producing would love them but they’re so wrong for mixing and mastering.
You’re spot on with the Barefoot Footprint 01. Just experienced the same thing
Yeh, I don’t think side address bass speakers are for me but everyone raves about the Kii’s so I remain impartial to the concept. But yeh, I hated the Barefoots, lol. Unfortunately I couldn’t truly the micro mains. They’re the model everyone raves about.
He said Genelec sounds clinical… but the Neumann monitors or way more clinical in my opinion. I chose the Genelec 8361a over the Neumann’s. Genelec are definitely end game monitors.
Excellent video!
Wish there was a more detailed description about mixing time with each one of them.
Have you tried the less expensive PSI models?
I immediately found identifying problems the quickest on the PSIs and Ex Machina’s. Almost, to the point where I was hearing too many problems and over-mixing… I haven’t heard the smaller models. I wanted a three way so it was the 23s or 25s.
@@EdThorne I have worked on PSI 17s (6" woofers) compared to Focal SM9's which were more on the hifi side. With the PSI my experience was that I was able to stay stare the mix, what was happening without starting to tweek stuff without knowing why. Which is what I found best, as I could concentrate and find out the best solution each time. And I was able to deliver a more natural, open, result that translated better in all speakers that I have tested. Although I ended up working with APS Coax + Subs. It was the combo I could hear the most of 3d sound, depth of field, accurate transients, and unlocolored low end extention due to the separated subs that don't interfere with the coax mid and tweeter. It was a bit treaky to set it up, and align the phase and set the crossover filters between subs + coaxes, but once you set it up in the analog domain, without dsp, then you can add Trinnov or Acourate from Audio Vero and get the best of both worlds. I'm using acourate, I found both better solutions (APS + Acourate) and less expensive than PSI and Trinnov (monitors and dsp). Bob Katz uses Acourate also. It's a bit more tricky also to set it up, but it's an amazing tool to learn.
@@EdThorne How did the PSIs compare to the ATCs? In many professional studios the big in-wall ATCs are a natural choice. I wonder how you found the SCM25s to be... (it seemed that you sorted them out for some reason - I can totally accept that, but would like to hear why! :) Were they too bass-light, or too "pastelle" sounding for the price?
(I'm using 20 year old SCM20 actives, and love them, but I'd be intrigued to go with PSIs either! Both amazing speakers. On the contrary, I've heard PMC Result6s and absolutely despised them.)
I wonder if you'd like to try a good speaker stand like a Sound Anchor to fully decouple monitors from your desk.
I’m all set with the IsoAcoustics stands (and pucks).
what about genelec 8361a?
I had genelec 8260. I wanted to reach more natural sounds... so sold it. Dsp is not the smartest way to go. I discovered PSI. Everything was better. Then is discovered that I need tube amp and analogue passive speaker to reach my ultimate destination. I bought daniel hertz m7b + stereo subs. Im a happy camper now.
The DH M7s are $35k speakers?!🤯🫣
@@EdThorne used 8K. ;)
Have you tried the Telegrapher Gorillas ? They’re priced around the same and launched at NAAM. The guys were super cool and the speakers looked and sounded awesome !
I haven't tried them yet, as they were launched at NAMM last week but I've spoken to Kevin and have a set on the way to demo. I've heard incredible things (from their rep, lol.)
@@EdThorne heard them at NAAM and I can vouch for Kevin ! 🔥
What would you recommend to a guy with a small room mixing everything from classical to rock to electronic music? I used to have the very original KRK Rokits (when they were all grey) and a samson amp. Room will have little in the way of acoustic treatment as its also a bedroom.
In an un-treated room I’d use good headphones with a great DAC/HP Amp. If set on speakers, depends on your budget. Neumann KH120s or Adam A7Xs to PSI A17s.
@@EdThorne thanks for the reply! I currently use m50x's through an RME babyface. I get flareups with my eczema currently and want to let the skin breath a little. I also want to be a little more untethered.
Amphion not good looking??? You're mad. They're as a sharp tuxedo.
Haha. I just regret not trying them 🤣
@@EdThorne highly recommend as a tool. Even if you don't like them, I'd at least grab the one12 as a B pair for mid check. I'm a very new One15 user. I demo'd them in a crappy untreated room, mixed to the best of my ability, and went to the car once when it was all done. What did I find? Regardless of my challenges the mix translated extremely well. Never had that happen on another pair of monitors even at a similar price point. Really. Just try them...just try them. Do one mix from start to finish on them. Truuuuuust.
Very good review. I have listened to a few of them and shared similar feeling
Good to hear!
I've tested many of them (except the PMC and MUM, but guys from PDP are ATC fanboys so i can have an idea) and still pull my trigger on One15 for mixing duties. Pulsars are amazing, the sound from NASA but many things sound too impressive on these. I still believe that on this price tag actually every speaker is amazing enough and the final decision should be made from personal preferences and these can be very different.
Agree with you there on all points. The decision came down to the smallest details.
I upgraded to Amphion one15s too. With a mixcube my mixes translate now. Finally...still curious about ex machine's though.
@@bingybeats189 Yeah, One15 are magical in some way. I don't want anything else even Ex Machinas! They sound sci-fi better but they don't help me making my mixes better, Amphions do!
Amphions look great! Lol
I’ve heard them since, they’re really good speakers. Kinda what an ATC should be. Orientation wise they weren’t going to work on my desk anyway.
Now that you have figured out what NOT to do (have monitors with any reflective surfaces around (your desk,) try different ways to isolate your speakers from whatever they are sitting on (spikes work best, but also try different materials under the spikes, wood, fiberglass, delrin, etc..., etc...,) you need to go back and try the Neumanns that irritated you so much. Clearly you did not have them set up properly, and blamed the speakers.
BTW, for another huge boost, especially in depth, get that monitor out of the center of your listening area. I know it is a big trend to set it up that way, but it does more harm then good where it is. It is causing horrible reflections and killing all the "breathing" room that allows for a 3D dimensionality and pan placement between your monitors. Remember sound comes from all around your speakers, like an omnidirectional mic pattern, which is why cabinet design is critical to speaker sound. Try to get the top edge of the monitor at least as low as the bottom plane of your speakers, but lower would be better. I'd pull out the rack gear you have in the middle of your desk and cut whatever you need to in the desk/cabinet to fit the monitor down there. Same goes for anything else near, around, or in-between your monitors (like that sweatshirt.)
If your monitors stay on the same shelf of your desk, bring them forward all the way to the front edge, and when doing critical mixes, use sound deadening materials to cover up all of the racked gear, and the next shelf down, because you are getting reflections off of all of that. If I HAD to use the desk, I would use speaker stands at least 8" high to get them off of the problems that shelf presents, but you will still have reflections. Don't discount cables, either. Once your system is of sufficient quality, you will hear differences in high-quality cables compared to the run-of-the-mill stuff you can buy at a music store. I recommend at least Mogami Neglex 3080 Digital Audio Cable, and run it in the same direction from source to destination as the writing on the wire. You are going in the right direction - question every little piece of gear in your entire chain, and continue to experiment to make it better. 55 years of audio experience speaking here. Good Luck!
I’m very shocked that the new Adam A series was not mentioned.
I already know the Adam sound, and although wonderful in the top end, I don’t like them below 1k. Also the A series are nowhere near the same price point as these guys, and therefore, not going to be in the same league.
But as one who is an acoustician with extensive knowledge of loudspeaker design and testing, and after testing the PMC 6 monitors and Adam A77H's side-by-side, I was severely impressed with how the Adam's held up and how negligible the differences were. In fact, I almost preferred the Adams as they were sort of less fatiguing in the high end than the PMCs. Possibly, a benefit of ribbon tweeters, or so I now hear about when reviewing the available literature/research.
I also found the new Adams to have a very tight low-end in comparison to the old AX monitors with the weird overly boxy low-mids to be a thing of the past. By far the cleanest best bang for the buck pair of monitors money can buy within the £3k price range.
So to suggest they are not in the same league I would say is a moot point and does not come from a place of total objectivity.
But I suppose that is the issue with these types of videos. They're never usually objective and since we all perceive sound differently and prefer different 'curves' et al. no two people are ever going to have the same 'top 5' choices for loudspeaker units.
@@EdThorne
I'm quite sure if you had Geithain RL934 on your list they would have been a sensation
They are mad looking speakers. And about £12k. I had a limited budget. Thanks for the suggestion though.
@@EdThorne oh I would have thought they would come out at under 10 grand due to euro - pound conversion. RL944 and 903 are their slightly more affordable options for neafield 3-ways.
Naaa, Geithain don’t even compare , they sound like 70s speaker technology. It’s not even close
@@1wibble230 well, i can‘t agree, i‘ve Never worked on netter speakers than rl933.
I got the footprint 03 Highly recommend, they are not very big and allow you to hear many aspects of the track in any size room. If you are a project producer working in a home studio or mixing set up, Highly recommend, especially with the remote, I am surprised at how much it makes you listen to many parts of the track with the remote. I use it way more than I thought and its great for getting your ears to pay attention to different frequency spectrums one at a time.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for Sharing!
My pleasure!
Thanks for this video Ed! Incredibly helpful. How did you feel the PDP silk dome compared with the other monitors here? I know you mentioned more clarity out of the beryllium similar to the PSI, but did you find the silk dome to be that much more "soft" sounding than the others? Would you have even considered the silk domes version of the PDP monitors against the other monitors? Thanks!
Great video Ed…..but not sure I can bear the suspense!! Can’t wait to learn what you decided upon…..Also any progress on the RME interface front? I noticed the upgrade to the X16, so is that what you have decided to settle on for now?
Thanks. You may get a clue if you follow my Insta/Working Audio Tools podcast😉
I’m back logged on content so haven’t looked into RME yet. I’ll make a note for the NY. I was fortunate to be able to swap the X8P for the X16 with UA. made sense with the outboard.
@@EdThorne thanks for the heads up! Totally understand, as it seems like you are dropping a lot of content, which is all the stuff I am very interested in right now! Well the X16 swap sounded like a no brainer. Do you think the upgrade is significant in terms of the converters?
@riasure It’s a noticeable upgrade on the X6 which was running my speakers previously. It provides a more expansive and open top end. It’s not a huge difference but at this level you’re well into diminishing returns.
@@EdThorne thanks for sharing your honest opinion. If UA are getting close to releasing some new interfaces I will hold off, but to be honest it taking too long, so I am very close to pulling the trigger on RME. Although, I have heard very good things about X16 but that’s out of my price range unfortunately.. I am looking forward to seeing what’s coming next from you😄
@@EdThorne do you use the inbuilt volume/monitor controller, or did you go with something external? (Crane Song Avocet/Grace m905/Benchmark LA4/Heritage Audiod RAM/etc)
I wonder why no one talk about Quested...😅
Get NS10's and some auratones. And some genelecs.
Great info, thanks🎶
My pleasure!
How would some of the older BBC designs hold up to these more modern designs?@@EdThorne
So..which ones did you keep? Kind regards for u r video
This is part of a series leading up to the reveal video. Links in description.
ATC SCM ASL all the way .
I'm upgrading to Tannoy Gold 7's...but later I hope to upgrade to something like the PSI's. I realize after 1.5 yrs of audio production, there is no such thing as flat speakers, BUT rather 'flatter' speakers. And even then, it doesn't mean your mixing decisions will translate from those monitors to other sources. I believe the decisions the monitors make you take matter a lot more than the flatness of speakers in the context of translation. Is this conclusion correct?
I’m not even convinced it’s about “flatness”. It’s about what your priorities are/needs from a speaker. I may change my mind in a few years but the ones I bought are really working for me atm. 🤘
I'm coming into some money this year and I have the whole thing planned out to upgrade my entire studio...
I started in 2000 when I first got into making music, but now its my full time job. 10 years ago, I spent 50k on building a studio room - starting with the acoustics first of all - which cost the most of everything to really get it as flat as possible in there. No point having all this gear in a terrible room.
Ive been through 5 sets of increasing quality monitors, the last pair I got were the K&H0300s (now owned by Neumann I think) Ive tried Adam P33A, A7s, Mackie..
Gonna go with an Apollo UAD interface, but swapping out my old Benchmark DAC for a Burl and running everything external back into the DAW with an additional Burl ADC.
For mastering, Ill be adding a
Rupert Neve Bus Transformer and a Tube Tech 2B Multiband mastering compressor... And finally, going for the
ATC SCM45A MKII monitors. After much deliberation..
Also, just to make sure everything is as perfect in the room as possible - an IK ARC Room Correction box and mic.
If possible, maybe I should pick a top 3 monitors and see if I can get a demo for a week and try some mixes..
If you can stretch to it, I can’t recommend Trinnov enough for room correction. It’s in a league of own compared to Sound iD, ARC, and MA1.
My top three speakers were PSI, Ex Machina, and PDP MUM8s.
Them jumpers on the monitors are giving me a mini-heart attack.
Ha. Sorry. It’s so I don’t “give away” which brand I chose. Although, you can see in my Working Audio Tools podcast/RUclips channel with Paul Third.
I find it unfortunate that all this audiophile lingo and terminology is starting to infiltrate the pro audio scene.
U think Focal Trio 11 would win all the monitors that u mentioned?
They’re good speakers for sure but they’re not in the same price bracket as the PSI/Ex Machina’s/ATCs. Not that price is everything but it’s a very good indicator of quality at this level. It’s incremental returns though at this point.
@@EdThorne I just want to know if you could pick one pair or monitors between atc scm 25 , PMC 6 or PSI (idk which) which one would be your top choice to mix and master all your tracks? (I mainly want to do hip hop and rnb but im open for any other choices too but give me one name please :))
Looks being totally subjective and irrelevant, the Amphions needed to be included here. They may have been the best 'sounding' monitors ever. Haha
I’ve synced heard them and they are very nice speakers. Kinda what the ATCs should be if they had better low end and more spacious top end. They feel like they lack power though.
@@EdThorneYou mean One25?
All Amphions tbf. But it’s not a problem if you’re listening at sensible levels or as near/mid-fields.
which one was ur fav out of all?
The PSI’s and Ex Machina’s were the stand outs with the MUM8s very close.
@@EdThorne which PSI? do you think it would be better than getting a atc scm 25?
I think MUM's are the best value.
They will also have the 6 inch one's and 6 inch sub to go with if you ever wanted to go Atmos later on
Absolutely! By far the best value for money. The two ways are great too, ideal for Atmos.
6 inch variant is now available
Sad you did not include Me Geithain
To be honest, I hadn't heard of them until people commented about them on this video.
Any particular in mind? Maybe 234? Not all things I heard about these models were good.
@@---pp7tq if I could choose I would want the RL 901k
PSA + 2 Subs + futur high end dacs. Should have considered the Kii three's or D&D 8C price wise.
Those Footprints would not be great in a small room on a desk IMO. I have them in a my B room and absolutely love them. I also have Gen MM27s in my main room and absolutely love them. I don't work in a specific genre of music and find these cover all of my work extremely well.
Yeh, maybe they just didn’t work in my room like the Neumann’s. Glad they’re working for you though, that’s great! 🤘
Yeah, makes sense.. Also, BTW when you mentioned the Iso Pucks, it reminded me of a thing in relation to the Barefoots (all that have the dual force sub drivers).. was that you can put a plastic cup of water on the top and play some crazy loud content... you won't see a ripple on the top of the water...The dual force subs make this amazing.
The EX MACHINA's was my choice before these
Before which ones?
great vid ed! im also considerin among these monitors (also the new kii seven) did u try kiis as well? in any other studio or sth
Thanks. Ooh, I haven’t heard of the Kii 7s, I haven’t heard any Kiis, the threes were way out of my budget unfortunately.
none because over ninety percent of people will never listen to your music on high end gear
Yeh, but that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy the production/mixing process. You gotta enjoy your time on this rock🤘
@@EdThorne Well, if someone needs to spend over $1k (or ten times that) in order to enjoy the process, have at it. I don't require such luxury.
If the mix is better then these people who are more down the line will enjoy it more too. The better the mix, the better it will sound even on a mobile phone. If you limit yourself to a bad pair of speakers while mixing, you probably won’t be able to consistently make good sounding records.
@@MichalMikulskiMM I'm not advocating for a "bad pair" or even only one pair and listening environment.
Easy, Barefoot. Wait under 10k, Atc.. I own Focals, but Neumanns suck, their too dark in the low mids. 3 way for sure.