Not a word on the best monitors in the room, the KII THREE. I hade the - ATC SCM25 went to the SCM45 which were very good but eventually I sold them also and went for the KII THREE which are for me on a different level, the clearness the transients and speed, the super sharp image, that crazy tight sub bass, the mids the sparkling detailed highes all just unbelievable. These speakers are so 3D that you suddnely may feel that the musician is just playing to you live. It's so analytical that you may think you are listenning to an amazing pair of headphones.
I agree with everything you said. But they almost felt TOO hifi. Like I didn't feel like I'd be able to really dial in something like I would be able to on the ATC. With that said, they're fun as hell to hear!
@@MakePopMusic The thing with the KII is that they can feel a bit different at the beginnig but when you start to get use to them after a couple of weeks you just fly. They reveal everything at every vol. every freq. from sub to sparkle, image, coharency, transient... and for your style of music they are tremendous, I only understood how good they are when I put them in my setup and pushed play, music just flew in the air dissconnected from the room's acoustic problems ( the cardioid designe ) and I was floored . You can also adjust the highs and lows ( and alot more ) to your liking via it's amazing wired controller. As I told you, I'm an ex. of the very good ATC 25 and 45... and recommend you to demo a pair of KII before you by anything else, they are that good.
But all that digital processing gives a synthetic quality to the sound especially listening over longer periods like a couple of weeks. Yes they sound flat and have great dynamics but they change the timber of the sound in some weird A.I. sort of way.
Thank you for your reviews. The room you hear them in makes a big difference. Its good to test monitors in your own studio. I tried the ATC scm25a's, and I agree they are amazing. The mids is a whole new experience, and i was blown away. Very smooth tweeters and decent low end. My original Focal Twins sounded 2 dimensions in comparison. The problem i had with the ATC besides paying that much for speakers was it separated out the music so much that it lacked the cohesive sound that every other speaker we listen to music on provides. With that being said, i guess i could get used to them, and i do have some Yamaha HS 5's as 2nd monitors that have that cohesive sound. The other thing is i was so used to my Focals for over 12 years that relearning how to mix on monitors that sound so different. My mixes come out pretty good with my Twins and GIK acoustic treatment. But i wanted to get to the next level of detail. It would take months for me to learn how to mix on the ATC's. I tried the Trio 6 ST6's and I found them in between the Twins and the ATC. They provided some good separation while also having a cohesiveness to the music. The 8" woofer went lower than thr ATC and sounded good in my room. I did not have a problem with the tweeter, nor did my son when listening to them. They also had the familiar sound of my Twins but 2 steps up in detail and clarity. So even though i loved the ATC sound, the Trio 6's were a better match for my taste and room. With that said i still love the ATC'S.
My Kii Threes deliver insane sound with low volume and minimal acoustic treatment. Edit: I find them waaaay more useful for translation than any ATCs ive worked on. It was 0 learn curve. They sound slightly plastic in some weird way, but what you hear is what you get,
All that digital processing overlays a synthetic sort of A.I. quality. I heard this for myself after extended listening sessions. I was thinking about buying a pair so impressed was I on first listen, but after a full day of listening with breaks I changed my mind and went for electrostatics.
Here too... and controversially, I sold a set of atc 45's to get them! No regrets :-) shame he dismissed them but difficult to test speakers when they're all over the place like that
So funny how people hear things differently. I tested all these speakers in London and the barefoots won by a mile. I played mixes that I knew were incredible and the barefoots “told me” that they were awesome mixes. The other speakers, I would’ve wanted to tweak those mixes more because they didn’t sound finished. That’s why it’s so important to get the speakers that are right for your room, your brain and your ears!
Don’t feel bad about your thoughts on the barefoots. I got that too. Also, it’s a shame they didn’t let you try them IN your studio instead. This is crucial! I rarely comment on videos but I thought I’d share this with you - what you’re looking for is how well each monitor accommodates and works with your room (which is quite a specific task) Great music stores know - should know this. Hence the good stores give you the option to try them first. Trying them in their room only gives you the perspective of “their room” with all its nuances. Every room is different and no one should fall for the hype of any monitor until the try them in their own room first. Obviously some features are “necessity dependent” example DSP, size, Frequency Response and etc etc..but for the most part if you don’t try them in your room you’re unfortunately just simply choosing blindly to an extent. Hope this helps and feel free to get back in touch with Vintage King to try out the closest options before you chose the ones you did. You just might be surprised. 👍
Thanks for mentioning you’re using the Shape 65’s. I use the Shapes as well and it’s helpful for me to understand where you are coming from. It’s making your commentary and observations more useful. Good channel, good contribution.
With the Genelec 8351 I had the impression that the sound stays the same when you move your head, obvious for coax speakers, but those were the first coax speaker I ever heard. I would expect that one can mix more quickly with those for that reason. The maximum loudness is limited though. It's just enough. If you want it louder, the 8351 are not enough. Did you check the Kii Three? They were in that room.
Yeah the sweet spot on Genelecs is HUGE. And the stereo image is insane. They just felt hyped in the highs and lows. I did check the kii three! Superrr cool but not quite what I was looking for
@@MakePopMusic I see. Well, I am hooked on coax speakers. Hope that I can listen to those by KS Digital, Geithain. On another note: From my own experience with a vegan diet for many years, I strongly recommend taking B12 vitamins. Maybe you are already doing that.
@@MakePopMusic You have to use the GLM software. The highs and lows is not hyped, the highs is actually pure flat if you want the GLM to do so. Otherwise you can always alter the highs in the GLM software. The lows depends on your room. GLM can only subtract peaks, because that is how physics work. One cannot add something that is not there (nulls in your room). You may actually get the Genelec's to sound just as the ATC if you want.
PMC do you a slightly more affordable set of monitors, the PMC Result 6. That overlaps or fits somewhere products like the lower-mid Barefoots Footprint3 (the cheapest and, probably thhe ones you didn't like - they are not great), slightly cheaper than the decent Barefoot Footprint 02 & quite a bit cheaper than the Genelecs that are a step down from the 8351 (the 8341), and the Neumann. Personally for 3-way, and the extension they have, I think the Neumann's are good value and good quality, at the cheaper end. If you are ok with smaller boxes and less bass extension, the Genelec 8341 & PMC Reveal are a good choice for medium-small rooms (Neumann KH 120 mk.II are great for quite small rooms). Another set in this price range, that might be harder to find a demo of in Nashville are the HEDD Type 20 mkII (roughly 6k a pair) & Hedd Type 30 mk.II (9k a pair). Don't be put off by the lineage and visual similarity to ADAM, the HEDD are definitely excellent monitors, especially ported. Don't disregard the older passive PMCs either, there's great mastering studios out there running passive PMCs like the IB series. Same as how people are still using those big honking B&W 602s in mastering studios too. HEDD Type 20/30 would be my choice, if budget was above Neumann 310 area, but below PMC 6 / PMC 6 2. But in that price range, I actually do like the Focal Trio 6 too. Above that, I'm probably with you on ATC SCM25 being the goto choice.
Did you listen to the Kii three, how is it compared to ATC scm25a and PMC 6-2. I'm an electronic music producer looking for a tri-amped upgrade from my dynaudio Lyd 7, which one will you suggest for both producing and mixing/mastering for EDM. Thanks!!
I work a set of ATC SCM45a's. I love them so much. From the midrange clarity to the fact that I don't need to use a sub, they are super rad. I started on Genelec 1031's with sub and they sounded great but when I made the switch I felt like the ATCs were a bit similar but with an easier translation between listening environments. The mix just sounds finished when I'm working with them. I find myself not needing to reference as much when I use them. Honestly man there is nothing quite like ATC's I've been privileged to have professionally used the gamut of most monitors but I've always just ended up coming back to them.
Interesting, I just recently tried the SCM25a (mk1) and New Focal Trio ST6 I felt the Trio's were way more detailed and relaxing, and the tweeter to be non fatiguing in my space. Currently using One18's and Two15's and I felt the ATC's totally dug deeper into the details effortlessly, but after 1 hour of working on them I have never had a harder headache and honestly felt dizzy from Fatigue. The focal's were so much more easier on the ears for long term, both production and mixing. But I did not like the lows and how loose they felt. Also tried all of these with Trinnov Nova + x2 Rythmik F12's. Sent both the ATC's and Focals back. Primary Genre: Hardstyle and Other EDM. Previous speakers Genelec 8351b and Tyler Acoustic Linbrook MTM.
Ears are definitely a personal thing. I hated the sound of the Focals and felt like your description of ATC perfectly fit those. Super harsh top end, cluttered mids, loose overpowered low end, and a smeared stereo field. The ATCs were the clearest speaker I’ve ever heard personally but everyone is different. And I absolutely hate amphions. I find them super dark and bloated. But I totally get that everyone has their preference 😁
I went through a great deal of monitors before purchasing and I ended up with a pair of ATC SCM50ASL. Insane monitor that gives you soo much detail but without frying your ears, and, at all levels. I can´t recommend ém enough!!
I did the same exact thing you did a couple months ago and the ATC25A's won out as well. I've had them a few weeks and freakin love them. They instantly sounded familiar and I felt like I could trust them to translate across the board. I tried a bunch of different Sub's at VK with the ATC's and ended up really digging the Dynaudio S18. I use it just for a touch of extension on the SCM25's. Nice video. I hope you enjoy your ATC's👊👊👊
The thing is, its impossible to test monitors like that. The Monitors are sometimes 2 meters away from each other with different Heights, so completly different Roommodes. Also you need to sit exactly on the middle, to hear how the stereoimaging is like, specially with monitors wich work more on an narrow sweetspot. The genelec play 50 cm above the head. Its always better to select 4-5 and test them at home with an friend so someone can change speakers.
HOLY SHIT NO F***ING WAY. I watch your channel every day and Knox has literally been my favorite songwriter for the last 2 years. I can’t even explain the amount of gratitude for the ways the both of you have managed to inspire my songwriting and productions. 🙌🙌🙌 Ohio might suck but we breed amazing songwriters 😂
Knox is so fireeee! Big shoutout to my boy Cam for inviting me in for the day. You may hear some of my production on some future Knox tracks! If you haven't already, check Cam Becker's channel. He always breaks down the Knox projects!
The thing about these tests is the room plays the biggest role and it can change drastically in a home studio. I was a Genelec advocate but over time began to hear harshness in the midrange. Currently have Footprint 02 and with the Sonarworks it sounds immaculate. ATC is King but it’s just unrealistically priced.
Room definitely is HUGE. With that said, I could tell immediately which monitors I just hate the sound of. The Barefoot 02 was actually one of my least enjoyable monitors I've ever heard. Which is exactly why monitoring is so subjective! It's funny that you say Genelec mids are harsh because the Footprint 02 was probably the harshest 1-4k HZ I've heard on a speaker.
That so surprising to hear. I initially thought Genelecs were great in the midrange but overtime became harsh. The 02's I've had for about a week so it's too soon to tell but we'll see! @@MakePopMusic
We use 8341s + subs (Trinnov calibration, no GLM). Used to have ATC scm45a but due to room size and limitations finding a more compact speaker with a coaxial design allowed us to move the console forward nearly 18" toward the front wall and get out of the null. Sometimes the room matters MORE than the speaker lol
Great video. I’m just sorry that you seem not to have auditioned the Kii3 monitors. They are quite expensive but they are also considered some of the very best speakers available right now. They actually spec out at 20-20, which is hard to even believe but they use some serious DSP to work that out apparently. I would have loved to hear your thoughts on them as well as seeing what you thought about them-perhaps you would have favored them…? i.e.- you might be missing out…? I don’t own them or work for them-and I haven’t even heard them-but have just been a “fan” of them from afar, wondering what they sound like and collecting up various opinions of them in the meantime. I guess I’ll have to go to Nashville to check them out and compare various speakers. That would be awesome!! Congratulations on your new speakers and all the fun you had on your trip!
i'm using genelec, which is very detail on midrange, but i totally agree that it's too exciting. it makes bad mix sounds fine. so i found out that producer & mixer working on genelec has to make sure that their records sound phenomenal on that speakers. Otherwise, it will suck on other speakers.
I've been using Genelec in one form or another for many years. Right now I'm using the 8351B with a couple Genelec subs. I'm fortunate the have a Trinnov ST2 Pro, so after running the GLM, I feed everything through the Trinnov. Couldn't be happier with the results. I was very close to purchasing the SCM45, but for the cost difference, I was able to to get the Genelec and the Trinnov.
SCM45 color the mix, Genelec’s don’t when GLM is used correctly. I use 8351B + 7350A with a 95Hz crossover … simple process, listen to the instruments live, then listen to the recording immediately … you should not hear a difference. With GLM they take the color out of the room and make it black and white. GLM allows one to save wide/multi as well as very direct dispersions of sound … it’s a mixers must have to remove color unless the intent is to color a mix?
Bro saw Cam comment on one of your videos saying he was a fan and loved your vids -- crazy to see this come full circle. Love it!! Can't wait to see it.
Great! Congrats! And you know what, I literally went through this same route last month! And my experience with the monitors you mentioned are almost the same as you described… being a hardcore Genelec guy for more than 12 years, I ended up choosing the ATC 25mkii after I tested like 20 pairs of speakers back and forth for about a month. It was fun and crazy! Any thoughts on the subs to pair with?
I'm on the Dynaudio 18s which is nice for my small-ish room! It's a dual sub with 2 9 inch woofers so it almost just extends my ATCs to be like a 9 inch driver on the subs.
The main thing with monitors, is that almost anything can be used. What i mean is that I both listen to and record on the same set so my ears have been trained on these speakers. Anyone's ear can be trained on almost any pair.
To an extent. Some monitors hide areas or just don't have a response there at all. You can REALLY know a pair of 5 inch speakers, but it still won't compare to being able to monitor on a 3 way system where you can hear and feel all of the frequency range and stereo field. With that said, you can make amazing records on pretty much anything now. It just might take more guesswork, trial and error, and referencing on other systems since yours isn't ideal.
I had been on my Focal Shapes for years and did label productions and mixes on them, but as soon as I tested the ATCs and Genelecs etc, I could hear where my mixes could be tightened up and I could hear things that I was guessing at with my Focals.
You are no doubt much better at mixing than me and first started 30 years ago lol. Anyway, I also use a sub so i don't need the mains to go that lower, they just need a nice full mid bass. I prefer at least 6.5" drivers@@MakePopMusic
I came here from one of your other videos, and this was just what I needed.Couldnt hear the atc 25, but I did hear the atc 45 next to the 8351(without calibration) and the decision was easy, for me.There really is something about atcs.Tried some mixes that I did on my treated room with my 8331 and sub with calibration, and the atcs showed straight away the problems which I couldn't pick up.Just an advice to somebody that wants to buy monitors, don't believe all the stuff in the internet, you have to listen for yourself, and take your mixes with you specially the ones that you think don't translate.The monitors that make that obvious are the ones you should choose.All the best.
I have the Neumann 420s. They’re big pigs but they’re some of the craziest speakers I’ve ever heard. Still running with no subs or correction. Everything people talk about with the 310s in the low mids is non existent on the 420s
Had a feeling the ATC were the winners when you switched to the desk view and it was all ATC's lol, which focal's are you on currently the trio11be's? Was looking at the Image 's, ATCs and Focals. So torn.
Love this breakdown brotha. I would love to hear a comparison between your favorites you mention here and the KS Digital A200's if you ever get access to a pair. I currently have the Footprint 01's and am teetering between keeping them and trying the KS Digitals out because of the extended low range.
There's a pair of 45s at the studio (no sub), you're gonna fall for those 25s hard, trust me. Genelec might be among the top players, but I just never got along with them, they're way too shiny for serious audio work imo. It can even be heard just through your lav mic. Likewise, the balanced character of the ATCs comes through even in the footage.
Hi Austin, long time watcher first time poster. love your work and channel. is there any chance to check out the playlist you used to check out these monitors? i have atc scm25 myself and would love to hear some of those tracks here and connect even more with your journey. thanks so much!
The 02 were by far my least favorite speaker of the day. The mids were cluttered, the high mids were sharp and shrill, the stereo separation wasn't good. Overall , they may be some of my least favorite speakers I've heard.
I own Yahmaha hs8 and hs5 so I want genelec 8351 for listening to my mix since there hype and maybe I can learn them slowly and enjoy watching movies on them
See if there are any dealers near you that can source a pair of MUM-8 monitors. Direct sales model means u get a lot of speaker for your money. I’ve been following their back story on RUclips and it’s been interesting to watch. Their customers have been replacing very well known brands with them. Richy.
Should check out the Amphion One25As that they released last year. I've worked on all the monitors you heard and your observations are right. The ATCs have a super precise mid-range and that's what they are known for. You'd probably not need a sub if you had the Amphions as the bass driver are 10 inches (if i remember correctly) and that's huge. I'm on a One15 + Flexbase25 setup in my room.
@@MakePopMusic that's all cool, like you said, each of us have our own preferences. I'm on the side that's not a fan of Genelecs, having worked with them in commercial studios for over 5 years. I hope you'll enjoy your ATCs!
I have heard a few of these monitors myself and find your interpretations accurate. Curious, did you try any Amphions? For me the top priority is translation and in my personal experience they translate. When small EQ or compression moves are made, you can hear it and the issues in mixes stand out making them sound less appealing, but making them a great tool.. I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on the ex Machina?Theres like no info out there on them.
I did. I don't love Amphions. They feel like a really expensive version of a NS10 to me. The midrange is super cluttered and unflattering and I would hate producing on them. Then Ex Machinas were really cool! If I did more rock or country, I may have gone with those! They're super big sounding, but still tight and controlled.
Interesting. I hear you on the Amphions. Some people are dubbing them the new ns10's though they still sound different. Its all subjective, but when I mix on them it feels like they guide me through the process. I have heard ATCs before and they were the best monitors I've ever heard. I haven't been lucky enough to actually mix on them though. Why do you deem the ex machinas so genre specific? I heard they are insanely detailed.
You should take a listen to Adam Audio! I have a pair of the A7X Studio Monitors and they sound incredible! My absolute go 2 monitors, and i'm not gonna lie, it's Kinda upsetting that there wasn't a single Adam Audio speaker anywhere in sight.. Not sure if vintage king have a business relationship with Adam Audio or not, but they should for sure!
@@MakePopMusic Pretty sure your talking about Adams cheaper T/V Series? Those are really budget friendly and compete with Kali, Krk, Yamaha.. I can't speak for those personally as i never tried Adams T/V Series.. Adam Audio makes really nice higher end, more expensive studio monitors, that range from $1,700 to $25,000.. I was talking more so about the higher end speakers from Adam, which do sound amazing for sure..Everyone has their own style and taste though..Whenever you get a chance if you haven't heard any of there more higher end stuff, you should give those a listen for sure man!
I can't imagine trying to select a monitor with all of them clumped together in a wall like that. They're all going to sound different like that than they would isolated in that space. Reposition all of them and your favorite is going to have different characteristics than during your first audition. Interesting.
ATC SCM50ASL are better than the 25, and 45 . The 25 and 45 are limited on power and drive unit quality and sensitivity , as they do not have ATC's super linear drive units as they do not share all 3 super linear drive units that are found in the 50ASL . The 25 and 45 only have 235 watts power capability . The 50ASL have 350 watts with more sensitive and lower distortion super linear drive units .
If you wanted one other option to consider then have a look at the Present Day Productions MUM-8’s. In the same ballpark as the ATC’s but half the price.
![[FREE FOR PROFIT] Yeat + Lyfestylë Type Beat - defntl](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ANSN4q2NNQs/mqdefault.jpg)
Got ATC25s last year, I feel the speaker just disappears and you just hear music. I love mine!
Exactly same experience with mine 😎👍
You should do these types of videos more
Heard!! Will do!
Not a word on the best monitors in the room, the KII THREE. I hade the - ATC SCM25 went to the SCM45 which were very good but eventually I sold them also and went for the KII THREE which are for me on a different level, the clearness the transients and speed, the super sharp image, that crazy tight sub bass, the mids the sparkling detailed highes all just unbelievable. These speakers are so 3D that you suddnely may feel that the musician is just playing to you live. It's so analytical that you may think you are listenning to an amazing pair of headphones.
I agree with everything you said. But they almost felt TOO hifi. Like I didn't feel like I'd be able to really dial in something like I would be able to on the ATC. With that said, they're fun as hell to hear!
@@MakePopMusic
The thing with the KII is that they can feel a bit different at the beginnig but when you start to get use to them after a couple of weeks you just fly. They reveal everything at every vol. every freq. from sub to sparkle, image, coharency, transient... and for your style of music they are tremendous, I only understood how good they are when I put them in my setup and pushed play, music just flew in the air dissconnected from the room's acoustic problems ( the cardioid designe ) and I was floored . You can also adjust the highs and lows ( and alot more ) to your liking via it's amazing wired controller.
As I told you, I'm an ex. of the very good ATC 25 and 45... and recommend you to demo a pair of KII before you by anything else, they are that good.
Haha I waited the hole video for him to review the kiis, he also missed the dutch 8c, these two are a must to compare in such a room!
my baddddd
But all that digital processing gives a synthetic quality to the sound especially listening over longer periods like a couple of weeks. Yes they sound flat and have great dynamics but they change the timber of the sound in some weird A.I. sort of way.
Thank you for your reviews. The room you hear them in makes a big difference. Its good to test monitors in your own studio.
I tried the ATC scm25a's, and I agree they are amazing. The mids is a whole new experience, and i was blown away. Very smooth tweeters and decent low end. My original Focal Twins sounded 2 dimensions in comparison.
The problem i had with the ATC besides paying that much for speakers was it separated out the music so much that it lacked the cohesive sound that every other speaker we listen to music on provides. With that being said, i guess i could get used to them, and i do have some Yamaha HS 5's as 2nd monitors that have that cohesive sound. The other thing is i was so used to my Focals for over 12 years that relearning how to mix on monitors that sound so different. My mixes come out pretty good with my Twins and GIK acoustic treatment. But i wanted to get to the next level of detail. It would take months for me to learn how to mix on the ATC's.
I tried the Trio 6 ST6's and I found them in between the Twins and the ATC. They provided some good separation while also having a cohesiveness to the music. The 8" woofer went lower than thr ATC and sounded good in my room. I did not have a problem with the tweeter, nor did my son when listening to them. They also had the familiar sound of my Twins but 2 steps up in detail and clarity.
So even though i loved the ATC sound, the Trio 6's were a better match for my taste and room. With that said i still love the ATC'S.
My Kii Threes deliver insane sound with low volume and minimal acoustic treatment. Edit: I find them waaaay more useful for translation than any ATCs ive worked on. It was 0 learn curve. They sound slightly plastic in some weird way, but what you hear is what you get,
All that digital processing overlays a synthetic sort of A.I. quality. I heard this for myself after extended listening sessions. I was thinking about buying a pair so impressed was I on first listen, but after a full day of listening with breaks I changed my mind and went for electrostatics.
I have the Kii Three monitors. Incredible. Switched to Kii Three from ATC.
Been rocking the ATC 150's for years! The mid range is king
I got the ex machina pulsars… best monitors I’ve ever heard
Here too... and controversially, I sold a set of atc 45's to get them! No regrets :-) shame he dismissed them but difficult to test speakers when they're all over the place like that
So funny how people hear things differently. I tested all these speakers in London and the barefoots won by a mile. I played mixes that I knew were incredible and the barefoots “told me” that they were awesome mixes. The other speakers, I would’ve wanted to tweak those mixes more because they didn’t sound finished. That’s why it’s so important to get the speakers that are right for your room, your brain and your ears!
Don’t feel bad about your thoughts on the barefoots. I got that too.
Also, it’s a shame they didn’t let you try them IN your studio instead. This is crucial!
I rarely comment on videos but I thought I’d share this with you - what you’re looking for is how well each monitor accommodates and works with your room (which is quite a specific task)
Great music stores know - should know this. Hence the good stores give you the option to try them first. Trying them in their room only gives you the perspective of “their room” with all its nuances.
Every room is different and no one should fall for the hype of any monitor until the try them in their own room first. Obviously some features are “necessity dependent” example DSP, size, Frequency Response and etc etc..but for the most part if you don’t try them in your room you’re unfortunately just simply choosing blindly to an extent.
Hope this helps and feel free to get back in touch with Vintage King to try out the closest options before you chose the ones you did. You just might be surprised. 👍
Vintage King has a 30 day return / trial period but I got the ATCs in last week and I'm definitely keeping them!
Luke is the best. And that Nashville showroom is dope
So great to see you bro! Glad you’re stoked with what you got out of the trip 💪❤️
now you gotta come see me in FL
I enjoyed this video format, would love to see more vlogs!
Thanks for mentioning you’re using the Shape 65’s. I use the Shapes as well and it’s helpful for me to understand where you are coming from. It’s making your commentary and observations more useful. Good channel, good contribution.
Make sure to review the HEDD Type07 MKII monitor speakers. They are just awesome
I have a pair of Hedd Type 20's absolutely love them
I have the Neumann kh120 and they have been brilliant. Wish I hadn’t suffered the KRKs for 10 years and just got the Neumanns
The 120 A’s or II’s?
@@officialdiomer A’s
thanks for the video, tell me why you didn't consider the Amphion 18 passive monitors?
Oh I hated the Amphions haha
I currently use a pair of ExMachina Quasar MKII. Heavily recommend a listen if you get the chance - life changing experience.
I noticed the Kii Threes and HEDD Type 20s. Did you try those two? Thoughts??
Good video. I use a set of tuned subs with my ATC's, next level again. Lots of fun
With the Genelec 8351 I had the impression that the sound stays the same when you move your head, obvious for coax speakers, but those were the first coax speaker I ever heard. I would expect that one can mix more quickly with those for that reason. The maximum loudness is limited though. It's just enough. If you want it louder, the 8351 are not enough.
Did you check the Kii Three? They were in that room.
Yeah the sweet spot on Genelecs is HUGE. And the stereo image is insane. They just felt hyped in the highs and lows. I did check the kii three! Superrr cool but not quite what I was looking for
@@MakePopMusic I see. Well, I am hooked on coax speakers. Hope that I can listen to those by KS Digital, Geithain. On another note: From my own experience with a vegan diet for many years, I strongly recommend taking B12 vitamins. Maybe you are already doing that.
@@MakePopMusic You have to use the GLM software. The highs and lows is not hyped, the highs is actually pure flat if you want the GLM to do so. Otherwise you can always alter the highs in the GLM software. The lows depends on your room. GLM can only subtract peaks, because that is how physics work. One cannot add something that is not there (nulls in your room). You may actually get the Genelec's to sound just as the ATC if you want.
PMC do you a slightly more affordable set of monitors, the PMC Result 6. That overlaps or fits somewhere products like the lower-mid Barefoots Footprint3 (the cheapest and, probably thhe ones you didn't like - they are not great), slightly cheaper than the decent Barefoot Footprint 02 & quite a bit cheaper than the Genelecs that are a step down from the 8351 (the 8341), and the Neumann. Personally for 3-way, and the extension they have, I think the Neumann's are good value and good quality, at the cheaper end. If you are ok with smaller boxes and less bass extension, the Genelec 8341 & PMC Reveal are a good choice for medium-small rooms (Neumann KH 120 mk.II are great for quite small rooms). Another set in this price range, that might be harder to find a demo of in Nashville are the HEDD Type 20 mkII (roughly 6k a pair) & Hedd Type 30 mk.II (9k a pair). Don't be put off by the lineage and visual similarity to ADAM, the HEDD are definitely excellent monitors, especially ported. Don't disregard the older passive PMCs either, there's great mastering studios out there running passive PMCs like the IB series. Same as how people are still using those big honking B&W 602s in mastering studios too. HEDD Type 20/30 would be my choice, if budget was above Neumann 310 area, but below PMC 6 / PMC 6 2. But in that price range, I actually do like the Focal Trio 6 too. Above that, I'm probably with you on ATC SCM25 being the goto choice.
Did you listen to the Kii three, how is it compared to ATC scm25a and PMC 6-2. I'm an electronic music producer looking for a tri-amped upgrade from my dynaudio Lyd 7, which one will you suggest for both producing and mixing/mastering for EDM. Thanks!!
I loved this format, was really great and informative
I work a set of ATC SCM45a's. I love them so much. From the midrange clarity to the fact that I don't need to use a sub, they are super rad. I started on Genelec 1031's with sub and they sounded great but when I made the switch I felt like the ATCs were a bit similar but with an easier translation between listening environments. The mix just sounds finished when I'm working with them. I find myself not needing to reference as much when I use them. Honestly man there is nothing quite like ATC's I've been privileged to have professionally used the gamut of most monitors but I've always just ended up coming back to them.
Have you heard the Telegraphers - people like deadmau5 switching from his ATC atmos to them 😬😊👌
Hey man, thanks for the video. Did you listen to the Neumann 310 including the Kh 750 Sub with the room correction software?
Interesting, I just recently tried the SCM25a (mk1) and New Focal Trio ST6 I felt the Trio's were way more detailed and relaxing, and the tweeter to be non fatiguing in my space. Currently using One18's and Two15's and I felt the ATC's totally dug deeper into the details effortlessly, but after 1 hour of working on them I have never had a harder headache and honestly felt dizzy from Fatigue. The focal's were so much more easier on the ears for long term, both production and mixing. But I did not like the lows and how loose they felt. Also tried all of these with Trinnov Nova + x2 Rythmik F12's. Sent both the ATC's and Focals back. Primary Genre: Hardstyle and Other EDM. Previous speakers Genelec 8351b and Tyler Acoustic Linbrook MTM.
Ears are definitely a personal thing.
I hated the sound of the Focals and felt like your description of ATC perfectly fit those. Super harsh top end, cluttered mids, loose overpowered low end, and a smeared stereo field.
The ATCs were the clearest speaker I’ve ever heard personally but everyone is different.
And I absolutely hate amphions. I find them super dark and bloated. But I totally get that everyone has their preference 😁
I went through a great deal of monitors before purchasing and I ended up with a pair of ATC SCM50ASL. Insane monitor that gives you soo much detail but without frying your ears, and, at all levels. I can´t recommend ém enough!!
Have you tried or worked on PSI Audio? If not, you really should!
No but I've heard great things!
I did the same exact thing you did a couple months ago and the ATC25A's won out as well. I've had them a few weeks and freakin love them. They instantly sounded familiar and I felt like I could trust them to translate across the board.
I tried a bunch of different Sub's at VK with the ATC's and ended up really digging the Dynaudio S18. I use it just for a touch of extension on the SCM25's.
Nice video. I hope you enjoy your ATC's👊👊👊
That's insane!!🔥looking forward to more vlogs!
The thing is, its impossible to test monitors like that. The Monitors are sometimes 2 meters away from each other with different Heights, so completly different Roommodes. Also you need to sit exactly on the middle, to hear how the stereoimaging is like, specially with monitors wich work more on an narrow sweetspot. The genelec play 50 cm above the head. Its always better to select 4-5 and test them at home with an friend so someone can change speakers.
You get props for the Seattle SuperSonics cap!
Nice review , I have the Kii three bxt and love them 🔥
They're so sick too!
HOLY SHIT NO F***ING WAY. I watch your channel every day and Knox has literally been my favorite songwriter for the last 2 years. I can’t even explain the amount of gratitude for the ways the both of you have managed to inspire my songwriting and productions. 🙌🙌🙌 Ohio might suck but we breed amazing songwriters 😂
Knox is so fireeee! Big shoutout to my boy Cam for inviting me in for the day. You may hear some of my production on some future Knox tracks!
If you haven't already, check Cam Becker's channel. He always breaks down the Knox projects!
Plus one for Cams channel his videos are great!@@MakePopMusic
AUSTIN ROCKS!!! Yeah ATC or PMC god damm!! best speakers!! greetz from Amsterdam
The thing about these tests is the room plays the biggest role and it can change drastically in a home studio.
I was a Genelec advocate but over time began to hear harshness in the midrange. Currently have Footprint 02 and with the Sonarworks it sounds immaculate. ATC is King but it’s just unrealistically priced.
Room definitely is HUGE. With that said, I could tell immediately which monitors I just hate the sound of. The Barefoot 02 was actually one of my least enjoyable monitors I've ever heard. Which is exactly why monitoring is so subjective!
It's funny that you say Genelec mids are harsh because the Footprint 02 was probably the harshest 1-4k HZ I've heard on a speaker.
That so surprising to hear. I initially thought Genelecs were great in the midrange but overtime became harsh. The 02's I've had for about a week so it's too soon to tell but we'll see! @@MakePopMusic
We use 8341s + subs (Trinnov calibration, no GLM). Used to have ATC scm45a but due to room size and limitations finding a more compact speaker with a coaxial design allowed us to move the console forward nearly 18" toward the front wall and get out of the null.
Sometimes the room matters MORE than the speaker lol
Your choice ATC ?
Great video. I’m just sorry that you seem not to have auditioned the Kii3 monitors. They are quite expensive but they are also considered some of the very best speakers available right now. They actually spec out at 20-20, which is hard to even believe but they use some serious DSP to work that out apparently. I would have loved to hear your thoughts on them as well as seeing what you thought about them-perhaps you would have favored them…? i.e.- you might be missing out…? I don’t own them or work for them-and I haven’t even heard them-but have just been a “fan” of them from afar, wondering what they sound like and collecting up various opinions of them in the meantime. I guess I’ll have to go to Nashville to check them out and compare various speakers. That would be awesome!! Congratulations on your new speakers and all the fun you had on your trip!
i'm using genelec, which is very detail on midrange, but i totally agree that it's too exciting. it makes bad mix sounds fine. so i found out that producer & mixer working on genelec has to make sure that their records sound phenomenal on that speakers. Otherwise, it will suck on other speakers.
They're soooo fun to produce on though. They sound huge
Genuinely appreciate this video!! I sold my barefoot 02s recently because of the same reason you mentioned. I’m between the ATCs, PSI, PMC, or Trio 6s
My friend, do you have the studio in your house? I saw many cars pass behind your yard. Do you have acoustic insulation?
I've been using Genelec in one form or another for many years. Right now I'm using the 8351B with a couple Genelec subs. I'm fortunate the have a Trinnov ST2 Pro, so after running the GLM, I feed everything through the Trinnov. Couldn't be happier with the results.
I was very close to purchasing the SCM45, but for the cost difference, I was able to to
get the Genelec and the Trinnov.
SCM45 color the mix, Genelec’s don’t when GLM is used correctly. I use 8351B + 7350A with a 95Hz crossover … simple process, listen to the instruments live, then listen to the recording immediately … you should not hear a difference. With GLM they take the color out of the room and make it black and white. GLM allows one to save wide/multi as well as very direct dispersions of sound … it’s a mixers must have to remove color unless the intent is to color a mix?
Bro saw Cam comment on one of your videos saying he was a fan and loved your vids -- crazy to see this come full circle. Love it!! Can't wait to see it.
The Genelecs definitely hold their own at the price point
Have you already bought a subwoofer? If so, which one? thanks!
Great! Congrats!
And you know what, I literally went through this same route last month! And my experience with the monitors you mentioned are almost the same as you described… being a hardcore Genelec guy for more than 12 years, I ended up choosing the ATC 25mkii after I tested like 20 pairs of speakers back and forth for about a month. It was fun and crazy!
Any thoughts on the subs to pair with?
I'm on the Dynaudio 18s which is nice for my small-ish room! It's a dual sub with 2 9 inch woofers so it almost just extends my ATCs to be like a 9 inch driver on the subs.
The main thing with monitors, is that almost anything can be used. What i mean is that I both listen to and record on the same set so my ears have been trained on these speakers. Anyone's ear can be trained on almost any pair.
To an extent. Some monitors hide areas or just don't have a response there at all. You can REALLY know a pair of 5 inch speakers, but it still won't compare to being able to monitor on a 3 way system where you can hear and feel all of the frequency range and stereo field.
With that said, you can make amazing records on pretty much anything now. It just might take more guesswork, trial and error, and referencing on other systems since yours isn't ideal.
I had been on my Focal Shapes for years and did label productions and mixes on them, but as soon as I tested the ATCs and Genelecs etc, I could hear where my mixes could be tightened up and I could hear things that I was guessing at with my Focals.
You are no doubt much better at mixing than me and first started 30 years ago lol. Anyway, I also use a sub so i don't need the mains to go that lower, they just need a nice full mid bass. I prefer at least 6.5" drivers@@MakePopMusic
Yeah, The ATC SCM25s are a 6.5 woofer, then a mid driver, and a tweeter. And I have them paired with a dual sub!
@@jayweb702
would love to see more of these
gotta get my ass out of the studio and travel more lol
Great video 🙏🏻
Keep the Vlogs coming
Genelec for me is the best
I came here from one of your other videos, and this was just what I needed.Couldnt hear the atc 25, but I did hear the atc 45 next to the 8351(without calibration) and the decision was easy, for me.There really is something about atcs.Tried some mixes that I did on my treated room with my 8331 and sub with calibration, and the atcs showed straight away the problems which I couldn't pick up.Just an advice to somebody that wants to buy monitors, don't believe all the stuff in the internet, you have to listen for yourself, and take your mixes with you specially the ones that you think don't translate.The monitors that make that obvious are the ones you should choose.All the best.
I have the Neumann 420s. They’re big pigs but they’re some of the craziest speakers I’ve ever heard. Still running with no subs or correction. Everything people talk about with the 310s in the low mids is non existent on the 420s
Had a feeling the ATC were the winners when you switched to the desk view and it was all ATC's lol, which focal's are you on currently the trio11be's? Was looking at the Image 's, ATCs and Focals. So torn.
I was on Focal Shapes for year. I actually disliked all the Focals I tested though. The ATCs are incredible. Can't recommend them enough
and just like that I'm back to square one hahah, gotta find a shop that has em to go listen@@MakePopMusic
Are u not going to be mixing in dolby atmos? wouldn't u need more speakers.
And do more vlogs people.
I'm not doing Atmos. I don't have the space in my studio.
@@MakePopMusic ok
Did you listen to the Kali audio IN-5?
I’ve heard them before but that’s not in the realm of what I was testing in this shootout.
@MakePopMusic I have Focal A65s would the Kali audios be better? Thinking of making a switch
When my studio upgrade came along, I didn’t give the ATC 25s second thought. Coupled with the NEVE 8424, pure Analog bliss
That's a niceeee set up!
Love this breakdown brotha. I would love to hear a comparison between your favorites you mention here and the KS Digital A200's if you ever get access to a pair. I currently have the Footprint 01's and am teetering between keeping them and trying the KS Digitals out because of the extended low range.
Current;y rocking ATC 20s with a sub, and couldn't be happier. Great choice.
There's a pair of 45s at the studio (no sub), you're gonna fall for those 25s hard, trust me. Genelec might be among the top players, but I just never got along with them, they're way too shiny for serious audio work imo. It can even be heard just through your lav mic. Likewise, the balanced character of the ATCs comes through even in the footage.
Yeah the 45s were sickkk just a little big for my room! The ATCs sounded incredibly open on the mix! Haha
Agreed! You can really hear the difference between them! It's awesome! The ATC's have that tight/present low end. They're CRISPY! lol
What song is playing at 5:42?
Pink Linen by Riley! Produced, Mixed, Mastered by me!
@@MakePopMusic sounds amazing bro!
Thanks Austin, really interesting to hear your views. What song is playing at 05:40 please? 🔥
Pink Linen by Riley! I produced, mixed and mastered that one actually!
Aha that's sick Man! Love the track 🔥👊@@MakePopMusic
Have you checked amphions, kii three or dutch and dutch 8c? love your videos!:)
thoughts on the ex machine's ?
Thanks for the detailed and thorough comparison of studio monitors
still getting great mixes from original Adam A 7's. with no sub. Neumann NDH30 for headphones. Mainly doing indie folk and some country.
What sub you paring them with man? I’m torn between the pmc 6 2 or the 45s. Having a sub makes me nervous lol
I have the dynaudio 18s. It’s great! You don’t need a sub with the 45s at all.
what about ex machina pulsars 2 ?
ATC SCM 45 A … that‘s all you need.
they were SICK! too big for my room though. I did the 25s with my current sub and it RIPS!
hey can you tell me what that song was? 2:57
Got Me Started by Troye Sivan!
ohh i see.... thak you@@MakePopMusic
In terms of more budget speakers what are your thoughts about Adam a7v?
I don't like Adam's at all personally. I love the Focal Shape 65s, Kali Audio also makes insane budget monitors
Hi Austin, long time watcher first time poster. love your work and channel. is there any chance to check out the playlist you used to check out these monitors? i have atc scm25 myself and would love to hear some of those tracks here and connect even more with your journey. thanks so much!
Yeah! I'll post it on our Instagram story later!!
loved the vlog!
They are a cool spot!!!! I was there for a listening event there last year!!!
Loved the vlog format, great insights. Thanks!
Did u try Amphions by any chance ?
Hi Austin. What are your thoughts about bare 02. Wthat + and- are. I have no option to listen to thouse speakers. Thank you 😊
The 02 were by far my least favorite speaker of the day. The mids were cluttered, the high mids were sharp and shrill, the stereo separation wasn't good. Overall , they may be some of my least favorite speakers I've heard.
@@MakePopMusic I will try the Genelec one. Thank you
@@MakePopMusic but it was maybe as this speakers have ns10 simulation option?
I own Yahmaha hs8 and hs5 so I want genelec 8351 for listening to my mix since there hype and maybe I can learn them slowly and enjoy watching movies on them
Did you try the Kii's as well?? They are so stupidly expensive but I am fascinated by their cardioid bass pattern
Yeah, they were really cool but they felt a bit hi-fi for my main monitors to me. Would be amazing for mastering suites or pure production studios.
Austin !!! Can you make a video on Max Martin's Melodic Math? You said you were going to do it. hehe thank you
I was thinking about it but there are already a million videos about it on RUclips.
See if there are any dealers near you that can source a pair of MUM-8 monitors. Direct sales model means u get a lot of speaker for your money. I’ve been following their back story on RUclips and it’s been interesting to watch. Their customers have been replacing very well known brands with them. Richy.
I do wanna try those really bad!!
Did you not try Ex Machina?
you had to listen the Kii Three! or did you? what your thought on them ?
Should check out the Amphion One25As that they released last year. I've worked on all the monitors you heard and your observations are right. The ATCs have a super precise mid-range and that's what they are known for. You'd probably not need a sub if you had the Amphions as the bass driver are 10 inches (if i remember correctly) and that's huge. I'm on a One15 + Flexbase25 setup in my room.
I don't like Amphions at all to be honest. I already have a sub so I was fine with the conservative low end on the ATCS
@@MakePopMusic that's all cool, like you said, each of us have our own preferences. I'm on the side that's not a fan of Genelecs, having worked with them in commercial studios for over 5 years. I hope you'll enjoy your ATCs!
I have heard a few of these monitors myself and find your interpretations accurate. Curious, did you try any Amphions? For me the top priority is translation and in my personal experience they translate. When small EQ or compression moves are made, you can hear it and the issues in mixes stand out making them sound less appealing, but making them a great tool.. I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on the ex Machina?Theres like no info out there on them.
I did. I don't love Amphions. They feel like a really expensive version of a NS10 to me. The midrange is super cluttered and unflattering and I would hate producing on them.
Then Ex Machinas were really cool! If I did more rock or country, I may have gone with those! They're super big sounding, but still tight and controlled.
Interesting. I hear you on the Amphions. Some people are dubbing them the new ns10's though they still sound different. Its all subjective, but when I mix on them it feels like they guide me through the process. I have heard ATCs before and they were the best monitors I've ever heard. I haven't been lucky enough to actually mix on them though. Why do you deem the ex machinas so genre specific? I heard they are insanely detailed.
But the Genelec look so cool! That’s gotta count for something, right?
They do look like little death stars which is sick as fuck. The ATC couldn't look more like a "picture a generic speaker" ass monitor 😂
Yea I’d like to see some more on the writing camps and what goes on!
You didn't mention or try HEDD Audio Type 30s. Those are fiya!
Be interesting to know a little more about the rooms you compared these in.
they're all in the vintage king showroom.
@@MakePopMusic yeah, so would be good to know more about that room.
Can you break down the entire mix of a song you did called heartbreaker,? Start to fin
Where was this in Nashville??
what about Neumann KH120 II?
upgraded my hs7 to the neumanns and i love them. The ma1 system is great if u dont got a perfect room. Dont wanna miss them anymore
You should take a listen to Adam Audio! I have a pair of the A7X Studio Monitors and they sound incredible! My absolute go 2 monitors, and i'm not gonna lie, it's Kinda upsetting that there wasn't a single Adam Audio speaker anywhere in sight.. Not sure if vintage king have a business relationship with Adam Audio or not, but they should for sure!
Oh I hate Adam monitors. They have them but they're in a different room. They sort their monitors by budget.
They have a section with Kali, Adam's, lower end Focals, etc in their first room
@@MakePopMusic Pretty sure your talking about Adams cheaper T/V Series? Those are really budget friendly and compete with Kali, Krk, Yamaha.. I can't speak for those personally as i never tried Adams T/V Series.. Adam Audio makes really nice higher end, more expensive studio monitors, that range from $1,700 to $25,000.. I was talking more so about the higher end speakers from Adam, which do sound amazing for sure..Everyone has their own style and taste though..Whenever you get a chance if you haven't heard any of there more higher end stuff, you should give those a listen for sure man!
Try and have a listen to the SAS SA25M, based in Atlanta.
I'll have to check them out!
Wait, with Andrew Masters!
Would be awesome to have him do your studio tour once the monitors are in!
Maybe he can come down to Orlando eventually!
The monitors are in! I ordered them last thursday and they came on Sunday! (literally 3 days)
I can't imagine trying to select a monitor with all of them clumped together in a wall like that. They're all going to sound different like that than they would isolated in that space. Reposition all of them and your favorite is going to have different characteristics than during your first audition.
Interesting.
You can still absolutely tell if you have the potential to like the monitor. I heard most of them and knew immediately "yeah that ain't for me".
Should check out PSI high end hand made in Switzerland.
I would actually love their speakers!
ATC SCM50ASL are better than the 25, and 45 . The 25 and 45 are limited on power and drive unit quality and sensitivity , as they do not have ATC's super linear drive units as they do not share all 3 super linear drive units that are found in the 50ASL . The 25 and 45 only have 235 watts power capability . The 50ASL have 350 watts with more sensitive and lower distortion super linear drive units .
ATC 🙌
If you wanted one other option to consider then have a look at the Present Day Productions MUM-8’s. In the same ballpark as the ATC’s but half the price.
Oh I already bought the ATCs and got them in. I love them. Best decision I've made for my room.