@@99range92def Because these ignorant people vote and control the rest of us to live by their evil backward rules. It's our duty to stop ignorance. We don't want to bring children into a religious reality.
When I was 18 yrs old, some people, whom I loved and trusted deeply, did a great many evil things to me which affected me emotionally and spiritually over many years. Thirty years later, my parish priest agreed the burden was too great for me to resolve on my own, and too many years had passed to confront those responsible..... So, he told me to bundle up these incidents and their many unresolved issues, and to lay my bundle at the foot of The Cross with a prayer "Dear Lord, I leave this bundle with You so that You may bring forth whatever good from these evils as You see fit, while I continue to try and live my life as You require in your Grace and Love... Amen" ...... that was 20 yrs ago, and I've never looked back to this day - try it for yourself ➕
This sounds like a powerful therapeutic process. It would only work on one who accepts Christian precepts though. A Muslim would rather place his bundle before Allah. A Buddhist would lay his bundle at the feet of the Buddha...e.t.c.
@@OneTheBlue I believe this was far more than a mere "therapeutic process" because I know for certain that Jesus took my burden and was with me through the last 20 yrs (for reasons I won't go into here) ..... How this "therapeutic process" might work for those of other faiths would be a matter for them, obviously.
Why couldn’t you get some resolution here on earth to the evil that was done to you why listen to someone who says leave it in the hands of God, sorry I don’t understand why you wouldn’t fight for justice
Wow. This helps me so much. Thank you for sharing this gem 💎 with us. Praise be to the God! Writing your testimony down and intend to do the same thing. Thank you.
Exactly! Beat me to it. We live in a fallen world. We separated ourselves from God. This is no surprise to Christians. That's why we're called to be the salt of the earth.
@haitaelpastor976 No. He created us pefect with free will and so we wouldn't be slaves in paradise offered a choice to rebel against him. We rebelled and these evil things followed
So why does human suffering continue? Why did hundreds of millions suffer at the hands of authoritarian regimes in the 20th Century? God died in human form? Big deal. Suffering continued. God hasn’t ended it.
No human EVER suffered while knowing they could and would resurrect themselves. He did not become a part of "human suffering" in any way that resembles how WE suffer. When we suffer, we may have no way of ending it, no way of knowing it WILL end, and no way of deciding when and where the suffering will happen at our convenience. God decided when he would suffer, how he would suffer, how long he would suffer, how he would end it, and most importantly, he decided it would NOT have any long-term consequences on him. He was omnipotent before the cross, and he was omnipotent after. He lost nothing. Our suffering costs us in many ways; it reduces our physical abilities, it reduces our mental capacity, it reduces our ability to interact with the world, it takes our loved ones from us, and it ultimately takes our time on earth away from us. God lost NOTHING by posting himself up on a board for a weekend. If He lost nothing, then He didn't suffer much, if at all. He was just inconvenienced for a weekend, at most.
I recently heard someone approach this with this analogy. Imagine a doctor comes in and tells you he’s got good news and bad news. “The bad news is you have cancer,” he says. “The good news is I have it too!” A god willing to suffer what we suffer provides as much comfort as a torturer willing to be tortured as well. It’s a bit demented, but Christians have spun this to be some sort of compassion.
Worshipping anyone except Allah is an unforgivable sin - (Quran 4:48, 4:116). (That means if not repented before dying moment and before death then it's an unforgivable sin). Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous. - (Quran 4:18). La ilaha illallahu Muhammadar rasulullah - (There is no deity but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah). Allah forgives all sins if anyone repents to him - (Quran 39:53).
The problem is the prophecies of the One to come from God Almighty has to be a descendant of king David. Several prophets stated this. Mohammad was not a descendant of king Davud therefore never was God's chosen messenger. The Koran states Jesus us the Christ. The word means the anointed One. God's chosen. Every time any follower of Mohammed calls Jesus, Christ, they acknowledge Jesus is the only true revelation and messenger of God for He is from God.
@@bertrandruskin3406 May be for that time but Prophet Muhammad is the descendant of Prophet Abraham through Prophet Ismail. If you read both the Quran and the Bible you will get commandments to worship only one Allah creator of everything including Jesus and Muhammad. Indeed the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. Allah created him from dust then said to him be and he was - (Quran 3:59). But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven nor Jesus but only God. - (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32). Only Allah knows the hour - (Quran 7:187, 31:34, etc).
Just because something like theism gives people hope, doesn't mean what they hope for is true and they will find life after death. The justification that Lennox gives for evil existing in the world is shallow and doesn't even really answer the question as to why bad things happen in the world.
I am old, disabled and half blind. I also currently can’t leave my home and yet I am blessed because Jesus Christ is my King. He is my salvation and suffered the punishment that I deserve. When I stand in his presence which will be at His command I will have passed into the perfect and eternal from tribulations and finite. Because I have lived with imperfection I will recognize His perfection and His divinity.
@@michaelbell6088Right and you believe we are all a cosmic accident. There are no moral absolutes.. There is no evil or good it’s just a matter of opinion that’s your world
First you must know we don’t die! Yes our bodies die but our souls live on Forever. God loves us and He is NOT Cruel. He is loving and kind. We are here on earth because we Chose to be here. Before you are born you make a choice to come to earth and accept the suffering that will only increase your experiences. Videos of NDEs ( Near Death Experiences) are important, so please read some to learn the Truth. peace & love
I lost my parent 6 months apart when I was 18. My mom to cancer and my dad a heart attack. It left me and two young siblings orphans. People would ask me how I could believe in a God who would take away my parents. I said God didn’t take away my parents, cancer/heart attack did. When we go through rough times we become closer to God. God doesn’t let bad things happen, life happens. If God reached down and made every boo boo better how would that teach us about being strong and most importantly cherishing the good times and the love of family and friends. Jesus suffered for us on the cross just as we suffer sometimes in life and end the end we will spend eternity next to God and our loved ones.
“For as the same fire causes gold to glow brightly and chaff to smoke; and under the same flail the straw is beaten small, while the grain is cleansed…….so the same violence of affliction proves, purges, clarifies the good, but damns, ruins, exterminates the wicked.” St Augustine, “The city of God” Written about 413 AD
Sorry for your loss, but your answer doesn't make sense. You said cancer happens. Isn't God more powerful than cancer and all-good, therefore willing to remove cancer?
I'll have to be brief, but an experience I had so shifted my view of God on this. I lost a baby that I so wanted, my husband at the time didn't want children and was suicidal over this, doctors also thought I had cancer, etc, I lost the baby at 16 weeks pregnancy. God was so present with such love and compassion for me at that time it so healed me emotionally of the trauma and made me see that such things in life aren't things that "God does to us" but instead God is "so WITH US" in our suffering with loving compassion. We need to change how we view God around this.
ultrasound causes brain abnormalities in rats. even when "a problem is detected", ultrasounds do not increase chances of success. the most common thing i've heard about ultrasounds is the doctor pointing at one saying "oh, this isn't good, you should have an abortion" and the child perfectly healthy 26 years later. doctor means falsify.
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”- From Ephesians 6 Reality supports The Word, not materialism. Materialism would make concepts of good and evil absurd. Stephen Hawkings wrote that if we’re merely made up of natural processes then free will is an illusion. If free will is an illusion, independent thought and choice are an illusion. Yet our conscience dictates otherwise. I guess my point is that if we were truly the biological machines that scientific naturalists declare we are, then we would not clamor for justice nor would we be having these conversations . Excellent as always.
This world is far away from being a divine design: Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day. Of course thats not because of human sin: Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
This world is far away from being a divine design: Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day. Of course thats not because of human sin: Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
Truly biological machines actually would clamor for justice if they were social creatures that evolved living together in groups. Groups that cooperated and exiled those that violated the rules, would thrive and outcompete those that didn't. Those groups with sets of rules that led to objectively better outcomes would thrive and outcompete those that didn't. If free will is an illusion, and my thoughts are all a result of a prior chain of material events, that does not make my actions and thoughts not mine. My thoughts are still independent in that no one else is having them. Only I experience them. A large part of the prior chain is my individual/independent biology and life experiences.
@Tinesthia would you say that they lead to good outcomes? What if only 1% controlled and decided the way for the other 99%? These outcomes benefit the few and exile the many so to speak. Could this idea be based off of humanities experience throughout history? If so, humanities experience has always held itself to a higher power or powers. And as religions lose following especially in the west we find our lives becoming worse when by all metrics they should be better. As we live longer, we are fed, we have the ability to communicate with anyone in the world, all the information we need at our fingertips. These days average people seem more disenfranchised than ever. It would be interesting if we could use something like suicide rate to measure whether we are more depressed now than before when before religion held more sway.
No, if God did not exist, life would not become 'simpler, purer, clearer'. The eyeball eating insects still exist, the bone cancer still exists. Bad things don't disappear when God is disposed of. If anything, the suffering becomes pointless, without meaning, truly without hope, and THAT is monstrous.
obviously yes. but what would you expect from a world made by a perfect loving god? and what would you expect from world that came about in a cold uncaring universe?
We are not brainwashed or delusional. I am 52 years old and only became a Christian 7 years ago. I led a life of self gratification and believed i would still go to heaven. I spent my life looking for something but not finding it. I can only describe it as a black hole in me that could never be filled ( no amount of lovers or money or success at work could fill this hole in me). Now i know differently. My eyes were opened and God came into my life and filled that hole. I am at peace. I had never read the bible before becoming Christian and yet now i am thirsty for its knowledge. Its a history book and full of answers. I urge non believers to just read it and pray earnestly for god to come into your life. Dont underestimate prayer, he listens. Many of my prayers have been answered and i totally put my trust in him. I have never been happier, so blessed. I will be praying for all non beleivers today, that your eyes will be opened to the truth. Christians join me ❤
@@niklar55 2 Timothy 3:16-17 - All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
You will not get mercy from that murderous, slave sanctioning, controlling, jealous, narcissist. Good job he is only , like all the other gods man made
Don't you think it's THAT reaction you just did, that makes what Stephen Fry said right? You shouldn't need to beg for a so called "Benevolent and all loving God" to show Mercy. What being, on ANY level, in their right mind would WANT to be feared? Fear does NOT equal to Respect and you're not supposed to fear someone or something that is supposed to make you feel safe. It's like parents and their children, if the child fears the parent, the parent has failed in their obligation AS a parent. Your child is meant to love AND respect you. To be brave and someday go forth in their independence, with you knowing they'll be okay, because YOU taught them right...not be afraid of you, cower to you and plead for your better judgement.
@@innerguardianXIII Fear means respect in biblical terms.It does not mean to be frightened.God must be respected as we know He cannot allow sin to be ignored.He must take action against sin.
@@illaxeye43 "free will doesn't exist ?" According to the available evidence, no it does not. " Explain where consciousness comes from" It evolved like anything else biological.
John Lennox spoke of brain tumours. My husband suffered and died from a brain tumour. I believe that my husband would never have turned to Christ if it hadn't happened. After years of prayer for him, he finally, at his final hours trusted Christ. Yes, he was a very stubborn and arrogant man who had a need for healing. His healing came by death. God is fair. He takes the wounded and heals them, the way He sees fit.
@@meredithgreenslade1965 Unfortunately, the opposite is also true. Many people who have experienced terrible and terminal diseases have lost their faith. They became bitter and walked away from God.
@@vparakhindo you think people who are truly saved can lose their faith? I’d suggest, perhaps, those people never had a true faith and would be met with a response like “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers.”
Spiritually we are all like the prodigal son, he took the good life in his Father's good world for granted and chose to leave, finally when he had experienced enough evil and changed his mind, the Father gladly accepted him back with loving open arms.
La ilaha illallahu Muhammadar rasulullah - (There is no deity but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah). Worshipping anyone except Allah is an unforgivable sin - (Quran 4:48, 4:116). (That means if not repented before dying moment and before death then it's an unforgivable sin). Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous. - (Quran 4:18). Allah forgives all sins if anyone repents to him - (Quran 39:53).
@@Mdsoyabaktar25Mohammad came after Christ was on the earth...Could it be that the true Words of Christ were plagerised and twisted to decieve? Just a question to consider...
Jesus came as a human.. He could’ve prevented everything that happened to Him, but he didn’t.. he went through it all physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.. And while on the cross, he took on God’s wrath that was meant for us 😢 so us, millions of people that lived and died- He did took it for us.. And I praise Him with all my heart 🥰 I get to go and live with Him in heaven as I’m born again Christian and I repent all my sins.. He is with us in our sufferings as well as in our happiness.. He’s been through it too ❤
You 'just knew'. Sounds like a lurking, in-built psychological issue. It's not proof of god rofl. You and anyone believing an internal voice is god should get that seen to by a psychologist.
Rabbi Irwin Kurshner, author of "When Bad Things Happen to Good People," once observered observed that one important thing Christianity gave to the world was the concept of the Suffering God. That people did not suffer alone. God, in Christ in them, was sharing in their suffering. That is a powerful idea.
@@thefuturist8864 Two distinctly different concepts, involving two separate spheres of knowledge. I'm sorry your mind can't grasp the distinctions between them. Or even that there are distinctions between them. Sort of like conflating philosophy with theology.
@@posthawk1393 The Gospel asserts He does; that that is the deepest revelation of Christ dying on the cross. That God Himself because He lives within us, feels both our sufferings and our joys with us, as we live through them. No one suffers alone. He is not just with us, but in us.
This world is far away from being a divine design: Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day. Of course thats not because of human sin: Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
@@zarailly Ah but what I mean is that atheism is not hopeless. Not everyone wants to live forever. As for your other point, the atheist does not believe in a next life.
@@zarailly reality is not the argument you are making. My understanding is that we are discussing whether the atheist position is hopeless, and I don’t believe it is.
Human trafficking stumbles my faith. While we're singing "Your goodness is running after me", and "Count your many blessings", my heart breaks for those enslaved! Then I remember that our hope is not in THIS world. THIS world is passing away. Our hope is in being resurrected with Christ and inheriting eternal life in a new and better world.
@@melissaelliott2966 I’m involved in a charity that goes to Eastern Europe to help recovering victims who’ve escaped. I didn’t mean to sound harsh by the way, I’ve seen the suffering first hand and it turned me from my faith in Christ. La Strada International.
@@stephenjoseph5265So do you blame actual humans that cause what you consider “evil” now that you don’t believe in a Creator? If Christ is not real, then why does suffering still exist? The human trafficking never stopped, diseases keep killing babies and children, murder still is happening? Why is that the case? Why didn’t you help African Americans in America who suffered from slavery and Jim Crow instead of Eastern Europe?
Such a silly answer Meanwhile you did die the fact that the only reason people go to hell it because God sends them to hell… If you deny that your simply lying and people like me know not to bother talking to you because you're not going to be honest in the conversation Of course you can even demonstrate that God exists so believing in God is automatically irrational
@@keithziegler8881 Hmmm...I think you have cornered the market on Silly and irrational.. God created us as free will beings. We can choose to acknowledge him, accept him, or not. If we seek him, he will reveal himself. "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. We choose to be with God or not. He loves us so much he will not over ride your will and force you to be with him for eternity. Hell is the ultimate absence of God. If that's what you want, you will have it. " Frank Turek has excellent arguments for the existence of God, Here's one; The science tells us, All time space and matter appeared form literally Nothing 13.8 billion years ago. Therefore the cause has to be Time less (eternal,) Space less, (infinite, ) and matter less (Spirit,) It also has to be immeasurably powerful, intellectually far above anything we can conceive and personal to have created. These are the attributes of the Biblical God. Add the fine tuning of the universe, DNA which is 100,000 volumes of specified directions, etc... and the evidenced is overwhelming that a mind is behind everything we see. As an atheist you have to believe that absolutely everything in the universe appeared from absolutely nothing for no reason. Talk about irrational!! I don't have enough faith to be an atheist!Another thing that presents a problem for Atheists is the fact that something has to be eternal, either the material universe, or a non material being who created it. We now know that the universe had an absolute beginning, so that leaves us with an eternal non material cause, ie; God. Because some scientists hate what the evidence tells them, they come up with silly hypotheses like "multiple universes," which there is absolutely ZERO evidence for. But even if it were true, there had to be a beginning universe which does not solve the problem of non eternal matter. Now lets see your well reasoned arguments, and I'll be glad to debate you. Just calling people silly and irrational without a well reasoned argument is weak, very intellectually weak.
@@chrisbera7952 “He doesn’t have to worry.” I agree. “God…” This is where you come off the rails. Unless you have evidence for god, everything from this point on is all nonsense, fairy tales, and pretending.
@@EverettVinzant I just laid out the evidence in my post, maybe you don't understand the logic of inference, in regards to the facts of the universe's beginning, or understand the fine tuning of the universe that is impossible by chance, or specified information in our DNA which can only come from a mind. You have to believe that immaterial, non thinking matter created itself and for no reason assembled itself into a rational physical law based universe finely tuned to levels impossible by chance, , THEN, somehow, formed proteins, which then assembled themselves into larger biological units for no reason, then into larger life forms. Ribosomes make proteins in cells, yet Ribosomes are made of protein. You believe that happened by chance. I've laid out some evidence. You just don't like, and or don't have a rebuttal, except for a childish screed. Good luck.
@@chrisbera7952 If you walk into ten bars and ask for a whisky at each bar don't be surprised if you end the evening with ten whiskies.... in other words, in the grand scheme of things we all get what we ask for, but what comfort does the atheist offer to those who suffer and didn't ask for it? God does not send any soul to Hell, by rejecting God these souls send themselves..... The gates of Hell are locked against God from the INSIDE. Imagine being stuck in a place, surrounded by people who believe they answer to no-one except themselves, believing they can do whatever they like steal, kill, rape etc...and you're just like them - and it never ends.... . There's Hell for you, right there.
Jesus never said that there would not be pain, he said there would be. I had colan cancer I didn’t blame it on god. I prayed to him and thanked him for saving me.
@@cameroneagle4370 No. I haven’t seen the evidence you MUST have that shows god exists. I’m excited to finally have access to this evidence. When can I expect you to provide it?
@EverettVinzant I can find evidence that cats are our ultimate rulers, and yet you wouldn't believe me. You have faith in something. You have a god and a religion... you just don't want to see it that way. What I'm saying is that you can only see the truth when you want to see it. People still want to believe biden is a capable president. So whatever lies they need to tell themselves about the opponent and the child sniffer will be believed.
Thanks for your work! I'm always struck by the fact that philosophers query the problem of evil and the lack of justice--which is big, but never seem concerned about the lack of love, or indeed about the many perversions of love that exist. Yet if you gave me a choice of whether to live without justice or to live without love, I'd say "Let me live without justice, please." I find that even when I'm treated unjustly, I still have God's love. This is what Jesus has done for me, and for countless others!
Can we imagine Steven Fry standing before the Creator of the Universe and declaring: "Your behaviour is utterly unacceptable". And then goes on, with a smile, to tell us how he finds the Greek gods so much more acceptable in their capricious humanity. Am I missing something?
Very much so. You're missing the part where your God is ALL-POWERFUL, meaning he COULD have found a way to create a peaceful earth without sacrificing free will. He could have...but chose to do it THIS way instead. If I COULD invent a doggy bed that made my dog happy, but I CHOSE to invent a doggy bed that slices him to pieces, what would that tell you about me?
@@saintmalaclypse3217in the beginning, God created earth and it was perfect. Until the humans created ate of the tree of knowledge and brought sin. God gave us all free will. Anything shitty on earth is mankind's doing. Not God's.
@@saintmalaclypse3217He did.. it seems you want no accountability. God should have done this or that so Adam and Eve could do whatever they want with no consequences/problems! That sounds like a very entitled position. Take take take. God literally gives us EVERYTHING WE NEED and he only asked one thing.. Wow!! Even after thousands of years people still don’t get it!!
@@saintmalaclypse3217 And you're missing the part where human beings, knowing full well from their own experience , nevertheless think fit to bring another child into this world of suffering and death.
God is something that you should be very afraid of. Just respect isn't enough. Here's something to think about, God hates sin. All of us are wreathed in it. Its in christ that we are taken before the father and are justified by our faith. It's that sole aspect that keeps exacted righteous fury from anyone. Yeah God deserves your respect but also he is your GOD not so simply a friend.
But he's all-knowing, correct? If so (correct me if that's not what you believe), he knew that sin would enter into the world. I'm not sure how you can avoid this dilemma. It's really simple, god can either be all-powerful, or all-loving. It is morally impossible for him to be both (if he exists, that is). If he is all-powerful, he is evil. And if he is all-loving, he isn't all-powerful.
@@bradwillis6591 exactly! It is totally incompatible with the concept of an all loving god! Of course a god does not exist but if such an "entity" would exist in reality it would be a celestial monster! God would have created humans imperfect, knows that "he" made them imperfect, knows before they are born that they will end up in an imaginary hell and does nothing to prevent that from happening! So "he" would punish people for eternity for "his" own bad creation! That's utterly insane! Luckily science and especially evolution have already debunked the crux of christianity and the crux of all the other religions I know of ages ago! And there is not a shred of evidence for the existence of ANY god or Allah or whatever name they gave to their non-existing celestial dictator!
@@donnaallen9863 death, evil, injustice, diseases, and suffering already exist since life began here on this small speck of dust called Earth some 3,5 BILLION years ago! So, LONG before the species of great apes called the Homosapiens came into existence by the unguided process called evolution some two hundred thousand years ago! So, the Homosapiens could not possible be the cause of all that! And pain and suffering is necessary so that we feel when our bodies are in danger! And death is also necessary so that the species can evolve and adapt to the changing environment so that the species can survive! And think of the massive overpopulation if nobody and nothing would die! Life would no longer be possible here on earth!
@@bradwillis6591consider for a moment, if you will. What's the longest you ever enjoyed something before getting bored of it? Now consider that God calls His people to eternity. That would be boring if not for this: God himself is enough to satisfy for eternity. We know this because he is already eternal and is eternally satisfied in himself. He doesn't need us or our praise to be satisfied. We need him and to praise him for US to be fully satisfied. But only a complete view of the true God can be eternally satisfying. Some aspects of God's character CANNOT be seen or understood by his creation unless it is in contrast with evil. God is a healer, but his people cannot see that if there is no injury nor sickness. God is justice, but we cannot see that if none deserve judgment. God is merciful, but we can't see that if we have not sinned such that we NEED mercy. But ultimately this understanding hinges on one thing, God does NOT love every individual the same. God says "Jacob I loved but Esau I hated." In the book of Psalms it says many times over that God hates the wicked. God does not love every individual person. He loves his people. All people, including his own, are sinners and have done genuinely evil things worthy of His wrath. But God the Father shows mercy to his own people through God the Son dying on our behalf. We owe God a life debt for the evils we have done. That debt can only be paid by us dying, OR by the person to whom we are indebted, forgiving the debt. However... Even if a debt is forgiven, it means the person who held the debt actually eats the cost. Jesus does that when he dies on our behalf. We owe him a life debt. He pays the life debt for us and thereby forgives those who stop trying to pay back the debt and acknowledge that it has been paid already. But if we deny that he's paid our debt then we are still responsible for paying our life debt to Him.
This world is far away from being a divine design: Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day. Of course thats not because of human sin: Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
When Stephen Fry stands before God, he wont be saying any thing, he will be awe struck, his tongue will be stuck to the roof of his mouth, he will be in great fear, and trembling. Who does he think he is ?
@@paultribbett7765Stephen Fry is an honest thinker, whatever else he may be. I think there's a lot to appreciate here. Better this than the apathy I often feel, and which many live in. He's probably closer to the truth than either of us realize. Keep well :)
Why do so many people who are suffering find hope and happiness in God. There are so many videos of children with cancer or other serious diseases seem to always be so loving and kind and have hope in God rather than blaming Him for their situations. God brings hope and our suffering on this planet is temporary and we are made whole through Jesus.
As someone with a genetic illness I wrestled with God for awhile when I was diagnosed. Especially as I do believe he knit me together in my mother's womb as scripture says I had to grapple with the fact that God either intentionally gave me the disease or at the very least allowed it to exist. I can say however that in the long run it has drawn me closer to him rather than pushing me away. Eventually I was able to honestly say to him "I don't know why you allowed this, but I trust you anyway."
@@pcdeltalink036 Thank you for sharing your story. God has big plans for you and I bet He in His power uses this affliction as a way to reach and help people no one else can.
Yes just look at Joni Erickson Tada. She has become such a dear believer because of her suffering. It’s making her like Christ, probably quicker than most of us with less trials.
A poem by a woman missionary to Israel back exactly 100 years ago, 1924, Miss Hannah Hurnard, expressed the mystery of suffering like this: “The cry of all distorted things: Why hast thou made us thus? To bear the anguish which life brings; Why didst thou not love us? So marred that God Himself must weep- Fit only for the rubbish heap. The cry of every breaking heart: Why were we born for this? Evil alone is made our part And nothing of earth’s bliss. Why didst thou give us human birth If we may know no love on earth? The cry of each despairing mind Ascends before love’s throne: Behold us, God! Or art thou blind? Can we be blamed alone? If thou be there, then answer us, Why make us? Or why make us thus? And love’s voice answers from a cross: I bear it all with you; I share with you in all your loss, I will make all things new. None suffer in their sin alone, I made- I bear- and I atone.”
Every philosophy and religion worth its salt has some teaching regarding the redemptive and soul purifying nature of suffering, because they all believe this world, this life, is not all there is. I'll bet you've never read, "Man's Search For Meaning," have you? Atheists as a rule tend to be very shallow. It is a Classic and influential book which posits one of mankind's deepest needs is for our lives to have meaning and purpose. Something you new atheists gleefully assert is impossible. But even that arch-atheist Friedrich Nietzsche was self-aware enough to mourn the death of God. Don't worry. There's no Heaven for you to fear entering. No God to meet whom you will judge unworthy of your gaze. The funny thing is, if I'm wrong, I'll never know and if you're right you'll never know either. But if you're wrong and the God of the Gospel exists, how will you be able to stand it? Living for eternity with that searing knowledge? I'm sure you'll be weeping and wailing and gnashing your teeth!
Suffering is horrible, but whenever I turn to Atheists for compassion, for caring, I'm met with jeering or indifference. Their love always helps me to turn back to Christ, because tjey intensify the suffering and I have found only the Lord God Jesus Christ really cares.
I'm sorry that you were treated that way. I personally have never been treated that way by an atheist, in fact, my atheist friends have been a great comfort to me when I was suffering a number of health issues.
Whether God exists or not, I honestly get a kick out of people who make statements like "If I were standing before God I would say How dare you! You evil monster! Yes send me to hell because I won't enter heaven on your terms." Please. The vast majority of these psuedo-intellectuals wouldn't even stand up to the guy who cuts them in line at the supermarket but we're supposed to believe that they'd be so brave in front of the creator of the universe. If God does exist and they found themselves in front of him, they'd be on their knees begging and pleading for forgiveness (as the rest of us should be).
@Unclenate1000 I never understood the whole "gun to the head" thing. That implies God is forcing you to do something against your will, but he doesn't. He gives you a choice and their consequences. Just like you can study for a test and pass or go out drinking with your friends and fail. The choice is yours and the consequences are what they are.
@@lanazugg-zugg8433 you will love me or else? God wants people to come to him freely? But you will go be tortured forever if you dont. That's not freedom. Is Fear Love? Surely not. Do I accept Jesus as my Lord and savior no but neither do Jews or Muslims. Yet they claim just as much closeness to God as you do. There is contradiction between them. That is a problem.
The atheist who makes that statement only says so because it's purely hypothetical. It is completely reasonable as an atheist to ask 'why' to god when believers ask 'why' on their deathbed.
To my mind the thing of Jesus is that he says, "Hey, you're going to go through some really hard times, that's just the nature of life, but I want to be there to help you through it," and I've been helped through so many times it's hard to believe. The possibility of eternal life is the icing on the cake.
@regsun7947 12 hours ago (edited) To my mind the thing of Jesus is that he says, "Hey, you're going to go through some really hard times, that's just the nature of life, but I want to be there to help you through it," and I've been helped through so many times it's hard to believe. The possibility of eternal life is the icing on the cake. n0w describe what the first 40 biIIi0n yrs are Iike y0u and every 0ther human being cann0t c0nceive 0f eternity, it is meaningIess c0ncept y0u cann0t even imagine what the span 0f 50000 years feeIs iike s0 wetting y0urseIf 0ver Iiving f0rever is as infantiIe as it s0unds
I see this in an almost childlike, simple way really. God WANTS us to be good and love one another as He loves us, and not to do evil, yet He loves us enough to make that choice, and loving Him and loving each other are the two most important Commandments. Proving His love for us, He came to earth as flesh and blood as Jesus Christ and suffered the most horrendous death and humility for our sakes. We can be cleansed by Him and those who repent and follow our Saviour are promised inexplicable joy in Heaven in the next life. All the evil things in this fallen world will have passed and there will be no more suffering or pain, He will wipe every tear from our eyes, as the Scripture promises. Now that's LOVE and I feel its beauty, peace and hope. Life has meaning because of it and every true follower of Christ has the wonderful anticipation of the glory to come. I wouldn't swap this for the world. Wow! Praise be to Almighty God.❤
I used to think the same way as Fry, even as a practicing Catholic. But when you finally see the truth, it all makes sense. Praise the Lord. To hell with Satan.
@@vibeworldmeta If you saw “truth,” by definition that means you have evidence. What evidence convinced you of the god that you claim exists, existence?
@@stevem.5177 There is so much wrong with what you just said. Let me start by asking, how did you determine what the odds of life occurring are? Did you use empirical probability, Bayesian probability, subjective probability, some other method? Second, how do you know it’s pure chance? I didn’t assert that, so who did, where did you get that from?
I often notice that people who refuse to believe in God, don't do so because of suffering in the world, but because they don't want to accept responsibility for their contribution to it.
the word "refuse" makes it sound like they know very well that there is a god, but choose to not accept it. No, atheists do not believe in a god, because their epistemology requires reason and evidence in order to believe, not faith or some other way of "knowing". Using the word "refuse" tells me more about your credulity than it does about non-believers.
Kathleen. Yes. Because atheistic epistemology is grounded in nothing more than biological contingency, most of them are captives in Camus’ ontological absurdity with their rebellious adaptation of the Myth of Sisyphus.
@@tabularasa0606Now this is d problem... When u assume that supernatural things are physical things that can be shown and proven on a way physical things are shown and proven.... U want to know why u only have half evidence of Jesus Christ in ur hands. Its because you've not stepped into the supernatural dais to seek d other half of d answer.... I have hundred percent prove... I can show u half part of that prove which is d physical but it is hard for me to show u d supernatural prove because that is where things get personal and not repetitive... Miracles are not repetitive but their real, it's why we can't test them or prove them but we see throughout our human history that it's always a conversation.... Jesus is human and divine, he is d bridge between the physical and the supernatural.... If u don't look for evidence in both places and expect every evidence on a divine being to be physical, ur wasting ur time.... Faith is the scientific method we use to test the divine.... Not ur microscope and list of scientific books..... Its what we've been trying to tell people for a long time.... U can find God but not with the method ur used to..
You just invoked a moral ought in expecting folks to tell the truth. Does the expectation that folks should tell the truth follow from your worldview? Evidence? impossibility of the contrary is more than enough. The Christian worldview is the only non-self contradictory, justified(good reasons to believe true), worldview with explanatory power for science and human experience such as truth in morality and laws of logic. If you want to replace the Christian worldview with another one, does yours have access to 1.) a source of all knowledge by which you can know things for sure? 2.) Is it free of self-contradictions? 3.) Are there good reasons to believe it is true? 4.) Does it have explanatory power for science(induction), our universe, and human experience? Tell us what your worldview is and we can compare. Examples of worldviews are atheism, materialism, hinduism, buddhism, islam, paganism, etc. Here is a quick example of one worldview comparison: Atomism/materialism: Holds that all is made of atoms, which constantly change, and are extended in space (not universal/everywhere). Matter has the exact *opposite* properties immaterials of universals (ie. laws of logic, truth in morality). Darwinian evolution assumes life already existed (abiogenesis). If we came from Darwinian evolution, we came from a process not aimed at truth. No human tribe has another set of laws of logic; it's so basic, you have to use it to deny its existence. (Laws of logic are: law of non-contradiction, identity, and excluded middle) If atomism is true, it does not follow that we have freedom of choice, making moral choices unintelligible. Induction: that the future will be like the past is the edifice in which science is based on. If all came about from time and chance acting on matter, it does not follow that we should have an orderly universe which allows repeatable experiements for science. It does follow from an orderly Christian God. Christianity has a reason for it; materialism doesn't. No one lives as if atomism is true, nor could it coherently(without self-contradiction), justifiably(good reason to believe) explain(explanatory power) our world and the nature of humans. Usually folks will refuse to list their worldview and say "that's not evidence". Continuing to call Christianity false when human experience and our universe do not follow from one's own worldview is to engage in irrationality. Look at the proverbial ground that your feet are standing on. Does it support what you believe? If not, your beliefs are irrational. Jesus is the way, the *truth*, and the life. To expect folks to tell the truth is a Christian value. Does 'thou shalt not lie' follow from yours? If not, your objection to Christianity is irrational by your own standards. Self refuted.
John Lennox is my love now. He is brilliant and rational. He doesn’t put himself above God by complaining about what God is not doing to make life perfect, rather he acknowledges if we put our egos on a leash and listen to Him we can learn to accept His Love and His help.
Well he's not really that brilliant and he's not rational because he believes in God which is irrational from the get go because there is no evidence to support it Also he's engaged in typical apologetics basically making stuff up to excuse the fact that God, according to the Bible, is evil, vile, and cruel He is a xenophobic, homophobic, trans phobic, misogynistic, genocidal, homicidal, sociopathic LUNATIC
Death is simply not a problem for God. He gives life. If a child does die from cancer, God raises them. For the Christian and innocent children, suffering will be short lived. For those who reject Christ, suffering will be eternal. And the first guy said that’s what he wants.
@@thefuturist8864cancer is metabolic. And is preventable. God didn't cause cancer, mankind did, so take accountability for the things you do. If you feed your children shit, expect them to get sick. This is your doing, not God's. We have free will.
@@thefuturist8864The Bible tells us that sin entered through Adam yet it also tells us the redemption from that sin was through Jesus. What many fail to see is that Jehovah God has already made the way out … The Bible states that we are awaiting Gods Kingdom to be restored to earth and heal mankind. It’s why Jesus taught to pray for Gods Kingdom to come to EARTH as it is in heaven as what is known as the Lord’s Prayer. So when Gods Kingdom is restored to earth all sickness / corruption/ wickedness /poverty and even death will be done away with… The Bible - The Good news that Jesus preached is beautiful! Matt 5:5 Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth. Psalm 37:11 11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. The Bible teaches that those who have died will be resurrected back to earth, families reunited. It’s such a wonderful hope and it shows that God cares and has the solution- which has already been set in motion
"For the Christian and innocent children, suffering will be short lived." Where did you get that? Jesus was asked point-blank what does it take to get into heaven, and he said you have to believe in Him. Children are born with no beliefs, i.e. atheist, so by Jesus own explanation, children go to Hell when they die. I know, I know, your preacher told the made-up garbage about the innocent in Christ, and about you only go to hell if you REJECT God, but that's not Biblical. Jesus said ONLY those who believe in him go to heaven. He made no exceptions for children. Where in the Bible does it does it support your idea that children go to heaven? What is the age range? Why do people waste their kids' time sending them through Sunday school and church if they've already got a free pass? And...here's the scary part: If ALL dead children go to heaven, and if ALL humans WILL suffer here on earth, then...wouldn't the most loving, merciful thing be to end all children and send them straight to your god's loving arms? If not, why not?
@thefuturist8864 If we're assuming the christian god, then he didn't WANT a world with sickness in the first place. When he made the world, he said "it is good", which meant everything served a purpose for producing life. Death didn't enter into the world until after we decided we wanted to have things our way, and he's not going to give us his perfect will when we refuse it. The fact that he would plan for us to have salvation knowing this, so that we could still be with him is astonishing.
To the creator of these videos, PLEASE keep doing what you’re doing. It’s very pleasant to hear intelligent/intellectual arguments that support the existence of God. Keep it up. These videos are life-changing.
Of all the people who have conclusively thrown away any right to be listened to, it's Stephen Fry. He once told people who had been abused as children that they should just suck it up and not make a fuss.
@LeonardoPisano-sn2lp why should he. You don't believe in him so why should he come to the rescue?? He doesn't owe you anything rather YOU owe him EVERYTHING.
@@ogrebirthh That is being a cuck. If your god is all powerful then it is no better than a devil and does OWE us all everything. You need to stop wanting to be a slave.
"I'm using a quote because it makes for a good argument, when in fact, it does not, but at least I don't have to think and come up with one myself" - Me.
Yes, so many know from real experience, to cast your cares upon Him, the one who tells you that He dies for you on the Cross, and He will reveal, healing your heart and mind, the unbelievable, wonderful and mysterious Truth of this to you through your humble relationship with Him.
You know I often wonder what Jesus would have been thinking in the time leading up to being nailed to the cross. I think the way I would if I knew that was happening, a thinking about the fear I’d be feeling, thinking about what comes next, and then I start to think he knew these answers. Jesus knew exactly where he was going, and that he would be going straight to heaven for a short time to then come back to his body here on earth. Then it makes me think the pain would be scary, but he knew how worth it this sacrifice would be. Thank you Jesus, iam always looking for you in every aspect of life, and pray to develop an even stronger relationship with you.
I myself have had my share of sorrows. To enumerate: Poor health, home burned to the ground losing everything, unhappy wife, handicapped children, stressful job, recent injuries in an auto accident, loss of closest friends and loneliness feeling that God is not there (similar to the writer of Psalm 88) Despite all that I realize that we live in an imperfect world and that we wrestle against evil spiritual forces that hates God and therefore hates us because we are made in his image and loves us. But God provided one thing that keeps me going. HOPE He came to this planet to make things right and died for us and promised to restore things the way they should be. That He will wipe away every tear... He said that in this world we would have trouble... but He has overcome the world
@@moralityisnotsubjective5 Pride is the source and engine of ego. And it originates with Satan. See The Fall of Lucifer in Isaiah 14 12 -15 12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! 13 For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.
I wouldn't want to go to hell but I certainly don't trust an evil God. Not going to compromise on my morals which is to do no harm. God fails 100% here so I'm out.
@@arc001 It seems to me you don't really understand Him and that is going to put you in danger. Shame, but that's your choice. I do hope you come to a better understanding before it's too late.
God exists he’s given us free will. People seem to want god to fix all the bad and so called evil. What they seem to do is … hey god cure this fix that, dont butt into my life until I tell you to. It takes faith in a loving god he is everywhere. I have had several traumatic events in my life, also deaths of my immediate family. Not once did say to god hey god fix this. People want the kingdom but they don’t want god in it. God bless everyone here. Much love ❤
Thumbs up for understanding free will, most Christians do not understand that. If we didn't have freewill, then the Jews would have never do the things God didn't want them to do.
@@ulfingvar1 So you see sickness and natural disasters as evidence of God, but you presume to judge him? You are a wicked man and you are of this world. Give glory to the one with power over the plagues you cite, or they shall increase a thousand-fold. This decade will see billions die, repent because the kingdom will be here before 10 years elapses.
Free will is a lie of monotheism. Free will has been discussed in the field of philosophy for thousands of years without an answer. Do you think those monotheistic have the answer? Buddha has tell us the truth and your Jesus Christ also learn from buddha. I don't know this god is real or fake but I'm very sure that this god has the emotional same as the human. It can be found in the bible.
@@ulfingvar1 More pertinently to this thread, what the heck do eye-eating worms, earthquakes, rabies, smallpox, periodic droughts, and massive famines have to do with this guy's testimony?
God would rightly say back "You have blessings of wealth, intelligence and social conscience, what did you do with them to help these problems?" That is the evil, blaming God for your own inaction. God showed us the way through Jesus Christ that you have to put yourself on the line no matter the cost if you want the world to be better.
If there is an infinitely perfect God, then He deserves to be praised for all that He is. Some of the greatest words we know are 'overcome' and 'mercy' and they are understood best in contrast. Can purity be understood if you don't understand impurity? Can the compassion of God be understood and praised if there were no reason for compassion? And can the love of people be measured if they are never in a position to suffer and trust despite pain and suffering?
The sorrows in this world exist to encourage us to help others to try and make things better. When things are easy we become weak and selfish and lacking empathy. We are meant to follow the example of Christ and seek to heal others and lift each other up in the face of such troubles.
Based on your premise then God allows the physical abuse of children, famine, and wars. And for the world today, whom should we help, the Russians or the Ukrainians in that war?
@@XJarhead360 the common people forgotten by the great powers whose war has left them in dire straights. The orphan and the widow. Russia or Ukraine is a trick question. They are nations and we owe no allegiance to the nations of this world. Why should we align with the murderer in charge of Russia? Or why should we align with the corrupt in charge of Ukraine who took millions in relief funds from the world and then fled while forcing the common man to stay and fight without supplies? There is evil on both sides and innocent on both sides.
I do not believe it to be coincidence that the answer to "why do bad things happen" is explained in the first book, on the first pages of the Bible (Genesis Chapter 3). We were meant to walk with God in paradise and live our happily ever after out in the garden. We were given the free will to choose sin, to choose to disobey the Almighty God--and we took it.
@@thelejund7944 So worms burrow into the eyes of children today because someone chose to eat an apple thousands of years ago. And you worship the god that set that rule up?
Adam had no idea what evil was! What free will he really had? Doesn't free will need knowledge of the consequences, and realising the difference between good and evil?
@@Agade-i1x awww wah wah ! 😢 Crybaby "God gave us a choice and I don't like it" ahh comment 🤣 if he made us all robots he would not be a loving god by giving us a choice God is allowing us to follow him or ourselves. And we followed ourselves. But you forget he sent Jesus Christ to die for us. Nice biased 😂
Evil is the absence of GOD. How we respond to suffering, especially when the innocent (like children) have no wrongdoing is determined by the genuineness of our faith. The faithful do not shake their fists at God or question His goodness. More importantly, it’s in times of despair and sorrow that we reach out to Him, and, if we are His children, we always find Him there waiting to comfort and uphold us through it all.
"Evil is the absence of GOD." Nope. You just made that up to justify your opinion. When you need to LIE to spread your beliefs, maybe you should examine your beliefs. EVIL 1a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED an evil impulse 1b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct a person of evil reputation 2a archaic : INFERIOR 2b : causing discomfort or repulsion : OFFENSIVE an evil odor 2c : DISAGREEABLE woke late and in an evil temper 3a : causing harm : PERNICIOUS the evil institution of slavery 3b : marked by misfortune : UNLUCKY
So why dont the faithful shake their fists at God for giving children cancer? Maybe they should given that he supposedly listens and responds to the fauthful.
@@davegaskell7680it is obviously their God's plan that those kids should have cancer. Best to not question it because they don't have an answer either.
If evil is the absence of God, given that God's ways are always pain, suffering, torture, agony, madness and death... I'd go for Satan the Rebel's way.
Rather than recoil from his audacity, I feel a sad, but tender mercy for him. I understand. I also thought I would accuse God to His face for what He allowed me to endure. The day came and you do NOT stand. You feel like a worm. You make no effort to approach, but just want to melt into the ground. Literally, a worm..and you want Him to turn away from you. In His presence, you realize who you dated to criticize. No, if there is an eek that emits from you, it is in all humility and of brokenness. And then, He actually answers. It turns out all those prayers by naiive Losers (those were my words) were not to air at all. One day, Fry will see for himself. May God tenderly reach him before then.
Steven Fry imagines he would stand before the God who gave him life and say, "how dare you!?" It is indeed sad. He has brought so much joy into the world through his acting. How many kids with cancer have found relief from their pain through his comedy? Yet it will all be lost, for Steven, when he is in hell for his rebellion.
This is a *QUESTION FOR EVERYONE* If *you tell your child to do good* but he or she *gets swindled by someone else* to do the opposite, which then *makes his or her life and the lives of his or her children miserable,* In your opinion, *whose fault is it?* Is it your fault? Your child's fault? Or is it the swindler's fault? In my opinion, it is your child's and the swindler's fault. *Your grandchildren didn't do anything,* and yet their lives are being impacted. *Is it your fault when all you do is tell your child to do good things and not bad things?*
I remember my friend group asked me sth similar when they found out I’m a born again Christian. It went along the line of “If your God is so great then why are there suffering in the world?” So I asked them “Why do you think it exists and what have you done about it?” I know it’s not a good response but my faith was still new at the time.
Amen brother! God is good, even through suffering. God didn't have to enter our suffering, but for love in this very necessary world of pain He choose to feel our pain and spill his blood for us, to redeem us into eternal bliss to come, and to know God even now. This is Life to know Him. Jesus is our rest.
@@emetahava were you directing your comment at what I said above? If so, how did you get anything from me that I claimed to be righteous. I am the chief of sinners! Only by the grace of God and blood of Jesus do I stand. Also if you did direct this at my comment, how do you know me and what I do and how I live my life? Seems like a lot of unfounded presumptions.
@@goranmilic442 There is no one who does good, no not one. I deserve death not redemption . I deserve eternal suffering for all my evil. .,..but God...He is so good that He would rescue a sinner such as I.
The arrogance, gall and utter disrespect of man to blaspheme and curse his Creator. God owes us nothing but we owe Him our lives and much more. Every experience we get to live good or bad is testament to His infinite wisdom and Will. These are not the first nor are they the last to challenge God and it always ends the same way, God prevails. I hope the find salvation in the Lord Jesus while they still here.
God owes us EVERYTHING!!! He created us without asking consent, and created a grotesque context for us, in which we risk eternal torture if we do not live up to certain expectations. The arrogance, gall and disrespect of God!!!
@@ulfingvar1 It's a bit hypocritical to say "I was created without asking my consent and the world I live in is horribly awful, and if I'm not a good person I'll be punished" while still choosing to be alive. Obviously there is something of value in living yet you are condemning having been given life while expressing entitlement to an easy one. God may or may not be arrogant, full of gall and disrespect but, if you are product of God the fruit didn't fall from the tree, it seems.
The question is who is the Creator: The Christian God, the Muslim Allah or the Jewish God? So it all goes back to one's FAITH! and what you want to believe. No one is right or wrong.
@@XJarhead360 The God of Abraham is one and the same as the God christians follow. Allah, however, has severe historical and thematic discrepancies with the God described in the Torah and Bible.
Amen! And Fry, *_certain_* of his own beautiful logic, cannot see beyond the confines of that certainty. This is why so often amongst those with the highest of IQs, their intelligence betrays them, creating a very LOW Effective Intelligence. Maximized Inherent Intelligence is only possible with Humility. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
Why? To teach his favorite angel a lesson using us as pawns? No. If there is a God, it is definitely not the jealous and vengeful God of Abraham. Those are human traits. An all powerful God would have no need for such petty descriptions of himself. He wouldn't need to kill the first born children of slave girls to "teach" their owner a lesson. Why would a god punish poor slave girls and their babies. It makes no sense. God is greater than that. If anything you're being tested to see if you will go along with such evils, simply to save yourself. To believe that people in other countries with other religions, who have a relationship with God in their own way, will burn in a fiery hell forever simply for not doing what you yourself would not.... convert to someone else's religion....is pure evil. There is no explanation as to why people would be so callous that they would believe such evil things, and be ok with them, other than their minds are warped.
For some reason I always loved Stephen Fry and looked at him like an ideal friend. I totally understand his pov. I will pray for him because he's such a lovely person, but so misled. I was just like him once, then God touched my life and there was no going back.
@@stevenjohnson6232 no, the atheist just cannot comprehend or cannot accept the idea that an all-powerful God is also all-loving given the condition and circumstances of this world. An atheist therefore is not against the idea that God can exist. It is just the God that is all-loving and all-powerful which the atheist finds an absurd proposition. And I personally sympathise with the atheist position.
The atheist should not believe in the Creator irrespective of the character of God, as seen in the Bible vs the state of the world. That is an emotional argument and not considering that God did not create tge world in its current state and nor will it always be. Mr Fry believes in a bug that was created with its only habitation is the eye of a child. But Mr Fry is incorrect on a couple of point. The animals natural habitation is not in any human and nor did God create a world of death and suffering.@@aleykuttygeorgemutholil6888
@@aleykuttygeorgemutholil6888I don’t. I think atheist are the most apathetic of peoples. They moan about everything yet do nothing.if they believe that this life is all there ever is… where are the Revolution? Why do they allow a single child to be taken as a child soldier? Why do they allow wars to happen? Why do they vote for corrupt systems to rule over them? Etc etc etc
Freedom from suffering is the goal of Buddhism, but not Chistianity. To embrace suffering in the pursuit of Love, Divine Love, is the Christian goal. Suffering is an assistant on the search for God. We suffer for Love!
You can't appreciate love, kindness, or gentleness until you've experienced hatred, sorrow, and grief. You need a ying and yang. Life can be tragic. The reality is that every single one of us will die. There is no escaping it.
@@quantitativediseasing9988 He's not wrong, with the exception of Elijah and allegedly Enoch, everyone on earth has died. Difference is, when one of Jesus' dies, he conquers their death.
there was a part in the movie "Walden" where the title character is praying and asks why there is so much evil, and he says something along the lines of, God I know this happens because of their freewill, but why does freewill have to be so free? That line made me think, and I came to two conclusions. 1) Freewill is the only way to show God we love him. If we follow Christ despite all the lusts of the world, and the ability to choose, then Christ is the priority for us, because of our love for him. 2) This shows how perfect and powerful God's love for us is. Despite whatever we choose, no matter how evil, if we come to know Christ as our Savior and Lord and repent of our sins. The sins are forgiven, and we can be with God in heaven. No matter what you have done, God loves you, that is a level of love and forgiveness we can never possess, especially without Christ.
Free will is the only way to get an uncorrupted God. We CHOOSE to do good, in spite of how easy we can do evil. Eventually that leads us to our inner divinity to reveal itself. And I don't think our sins are ever forgiven - no one but yourself can truly forgive your self. Our sins are paid for. The Hindus call it Karma. That's my take on it
@@DM-dk7js Rebelling against God and being disobedient to His Will is basically what evil is. If God did not give us a choice to obey or disobey Him then we would not truly have that freedom. God is not evil because we freely chose to disobey Him
How can one learn to be generous if there's nobody who needs? How can one learn to be forgiving if there is no one to forgive? I would say this world is perfect for those who need to learn.
I like your comment that "this world is perfect for those who need to learn". Can you clarify a little more? I find this idea as very thought-provoking. Respectfully...
@@johnbrzykcy3076 I look at humans like computers with nothing but an operating system and with no apps installed at all... We were made a blank slate, we choose our apps and become who and what we choose. This requires free will. (Place a man in a room with no windows and command him not to open the window how is he to disobey? Without choice there is no free will.) If the world was perfect ( aka no pain or suffering or evil at all) and we were born a blank slate there would be no need or even incentive to learn anything. God simply made a world that would produce what we needed. I think someone who has experienced evil can more fully grasp and appreciate the good.
@@GSpotter63 Your comments are excellent. Very interesting ideas. I've had cancer twice and I do have some long- lasting side effects. Although sometimes I ask God why, I don't blame God. But I wonder what I'm learning from my experience? Anyhow, thanks again for your views. Do you watch this channel often? ... Peace
This is a *QUESTION FOR EVERYONE* If *you tell your child to do good* but he or she *gets swindled by someone else* to do the opposite, which then *makes his or her life and the lives of his or her children miserable,* In your opinion, *whose fault is it?* Is it your fault? Your child's fault? Or is it the swindler's fault? In my opinion, it is your child's and the swindler's fault. *Your grandchildren didn't do anything,* and yet their lives are being impacted. *Is it your fault when all you do is tell your child to do good things and not bad things?*
People who say that God is evil should ask themself why they sin. If they say that they don't sin then they cannot say that God is evil. If they know they sin, then they need to stop blaming God for the evil choices they make.
@@kellowattentertainment yes he is evil and he is not your god. He is minor god from some pantheon of middle eastern ancient nation. So clearly he is made up and pagan.
I don't give children cancer. God gives children cancer. That's evil. The status of me being sinful or not says nothing about God being sinful or not. In short, nothing you've said here makes sense.
@@lies_worth_believing From a biological perspective. For example, If we things that causes cancer cells to develop in our bodies, whichever cancer it is, doesn't matter. That same gene is what we pass to our children so when they are born, they have the same cancerous cells. The child's body is too young to handle those cells, hence the cancer affects them more than it would us who are adults. Some adults may not even feel the effects of cancer, but our children do because they have weaker immune systems. That however is not God giving children cancer. That's purely a result of our choice be we can always choose to eat better.
im more blaming him for the Parasites that Eat childrens eyeballs in africa. Or the small innocent child given terminal cancer. No sane person can look at these things and think they are connected to human sin.
Having a conversation with my secular friends about God. Every time they questioned "why do bad things happen, whye grape and murder?" My explanation is that we live in a fallen and dying world. And one of my friend says "Oh, you're just always gonna go back to that!" Well, yes, because it's the reason why their are horrible things in this world. Adam and Eve sinned and introduced sin to the world. Everything went into chaos. Animals started eating each other, insects that burrow into living tissue. Grape, murder and all evil things happen because of the evil in MENS' hearts, there is no evil in God. God hates sin, how can He hate Himself? The way I understand it, evil comes from man and blaming it on God is a miserable excuse.
Ok sure, we all suffer because our ancestors thousands of years ago made the mistake of being tempted by the greatest and most skilled deceiver ever, literally the lord of lies. Because of something completely out of our own hands we have to suffer, I can get behind that. I understand the idea of mankind choosing to do evil things, but the thing that gets me is the bad things that are entirely out of human control. Why should a 4 year old girl die screaming in pain and terrified of an incurable disease? I genuinely can't wrap my head around it.
@@kylesparks1826 because that's the curse of sin. Sin brought death to the world. Evil is in ALL of our hearts BECAUSE of the curse of Adam. It's not just our "ancestors." Of course, a child, or anyone, who has to go through that kind of pain is upsetting, and it doesn't seem right. That's because it's not right. Death wasn't in God's plan for us. But it's the reality we live in now. The pain that a child feels is NOTHING to the comfort and absolute GLORY of Jesus when they meet Him. A child may feel pain for a while, but when God calls them home, they are in paradise for eternity. I guarantee you that those who are with God don't remember this life or the pain therein. All I know is that no matter what pain or agony I feel on this earth, it will NEVER compare to the wonders of Heaven.
@@joshuatrujillo9621 Sure, but they still felt the pain for a while. If god had a plan for them to come into heaven so young, why not have them go painless and softly? Also, why not let an atheist come into heaven? an atheist that has done everything right as a far as being a good person. Is entirely selfless and caring and contributes greatly to society, and never does wrong onto others. The only thing they have done wrong, is not believe in something that their is no proof of. I grantee you, they will start believing real quick when they get there. I can't imagine someone like that existing in agony for all eternity just because they weren't convinced of something. Just to be clear I'm not trying to be hateful or convert people, I just enjoy civil conversations.
Thank you for sharing this. I admit, I struggle sometimes thinking of the evil perpetrated against children. Or wonder why an innocent child must suffer with cancer. I understand that some things aren't for me to understand, but I do find myself getting angry about it. I also want to add that we need to remember that a lot, if not most human suffering is caused by our own doing ie cancer can be caused by our lack of nutrition, the chemicals we ingest etc. We can only understand with our limited minds. I want to be a better person and these discussions help me a lot.
Keep asking Jesus Christ into your life. He promises He will never leave you nor forsake you. You won't know until you invite Him, the Prince of Peace, into your heart. He is the only Way through this life and His death on the cross offers us another chance at a beautiful life when He returns. "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world’s rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12
This is a *QUESTION FOR EVERYONE* If *you tell your child to do good* but he or she *gets swindled by someone else* to do the opposite, which then *makes his or her life and the lives of his or her children miserable,* In your opinion, *whose fault is it?* Is it your fault? Your child's fault? Or is it the swindler's fault? In my opinion, it is your child's and the swindler's fault. *Your grandchildren didn't do anything,* and yet their lives are being impacted. *Is it your fault when all you do is tell your child to do good things and not bad things?*
This world is far away from being a divine design: Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day. Of course thats not because of human sin: Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
This is a *ANOTHER QUESTION FOR EVERYONE* Do you think your good deeds will bring you to heaven? *It's never worked like that.* If there is a doctor and he saves a lot of lives, *will he not be punished if he kills 1 man?* If even a judge on earth won't let you go unpunished for your crime, *why would God, who is Holy and Just, let you go unpunished?* That's why God needs to come down to earth. Jesus suffered and died on the cross for the sins of the world. *The Ten Commandments are called moral law; you and I broke the law; Jesus paid the fine.* By doing that, *He can show His love for us while still upholding justice.*
@@greyc8589 Two of the largest determining factors for cancer are genetic predisposition and infections. This fact is brought to us by science not religion. Both are things humans don’t have direct control over. You mention children getting cancer. Most children that have cancer haven’t lived long enough for damage to occur to them because of lack of nutrition or environmental exposure. So how does claiming a god exists excuse this?
I used to be an atheist but at 19 I had a dream about future events that came true a year later. I was shocked into a ten year search for the truth. The question of evil led me to atheism. In 1986 during the horrific famine in Africa, Band Aid played on Wembley and I was a new mom asking a God I did not know, WHY? As I stared into the blue sky on a day in juni I saw hundreds of tiny " shooting stars" slowely moving up towards the heaven. I was shocked and had to look twice. But standing there I knew the dead children was going to heaven, to God. A peace filled my heart and to this day, 38 years later, I stil have that comforting peace. Justice will be served.
Even if everything happened the way you said it, and it was provably NOT just mental illness, then the most you could say with confidence is you're psychic. How did you connect "psychic" to "therefore God"?
Even Jesus Christ Himself encountered evil and suffering in His surroundings. He healed many people. And Jesus suffered in ways that are unimaginable to us. I'm not trying to belittle the questioning by various atheists because i don't know it all. I still want to trust God the Father amd Jesus the Son. God bless everyone. Respectfully...
You seriously claim that Jesus suffered worse than cancer victims or those burnt alive at the stake, or in the ovens of Bergen-Belsen? You are truly a blind and evil man!
Suffering is so difficult it hurts so much to lose our loved ones or to watch evil play out. . I was an agnostic for 40 something years and I remember losing my best friend my Dad when I was 15 years old. I lived with anger for so long. I started asking deep questions. Stephan reminded me of that pain in that angry confused answer he gave. The Lord recused me and I don’t understand it all but I know I’m loved and I also see love in the world not just suffering!
Blaming God for the horrible evil in the world is to completely dismiss the reality of free will. The only way to have true love is for there to be choice. And choice only exists when evil is an option.
What the fuck has eye-eating worms, earthquakes, rabies, smallpox and periodic droughts, causing massive famines, got to do with free will? And, by the way, you just admitted that God created/allowed evil into his own creation, because otherwise there could be no free will. You say that God was SEVERELY limited in his creative options. Hardly the sign of an omnipotent deity, quite the contrary.
@@ulfingvar1 You may find Christian theories and theology flawed, according to your reasoning, but rest assured, the LORD of whom we speak is flawless, without limit, entirely omnipotent, and quite beyond our present limited understanding.
@@ulfingvar1 Wow, you just hit these people below the belt. BTW, that Lisbon quake in the 1600s (I don't know the exact date) that destroyed much of the city began to question the citizens' faith. Because after all the city's population was very devout. And God hasn't destroyed "Sin City," Las Vegas, Nevada, USA.
Its always so funny to me how most Atheists main issue is "Why is there evi?l" but for me that is a main reason why I came to God. I don't know, for me it never made me doubt aGod, it made me realize there was one, and I realized Christ was truly The Word in Flesh. Guess it does sound paradoxical if you know nothing about The Bible or theology but when you understand, it makes so much sense.
They’ll ask why is their evil, but like the guy says they’ll also say this is just how the world works. Comfort from the world is meaningless and hopeless. True comfort is truly found in Christ.
The problem is there is no proof of that. And technically both you and i were born in World alredy poisoned with sin. Don't force whole Humanity to own to that.
no, he self-evidently didn't lol. especially when that world is rigged to just completely fall apart, punishing everyone just because one person did something wrong in an obviously mythical/allegorical story forever ago
@@dark-xh7fs Neither I nor he force humanity to own it. It is a simple truth that humanity inherited Adam's rebellion, and does own it. (Romans 5). The law was not sent to condemn humanity, but to show us how wicked we are, to show us we may not be saved by our own effort. Only through trust in the Lord may our existential problem be solved.
People say God is evil for not dealing with the so called "injustices" in the world, but they forget that, if God were to come and deal with every injustice...the real question you need to answer is "why shouldn't he come deal with you as well?"
It's why I really dislike ardent atheists. They don't want to live by the "rules" but at the same time they want to live in neighbourhoods where everyone else does so they don't get mugged, abused and murdered. The big question is why would you *not* the want there to be a god? Perhaps because you know that you do things that are wrong and don't want to be judged for it? We are all human, we are inherently flawed. That is okay. If one is repentant, God can forgive us in my view.
Yes, and when God actually steps in and does something about all this evil, it gets called a genocide and God gets called evil. Like come on. They cannot have it both ways. Should God let the nations keep sacrificing children by burning them on a golden statue Moleck? Should he let the entire Roman Empire stab however many hundreds of thousands and never do anything about it? God has stepped in multiple times before. So sad they dont think so.
Many people ask, "Where was God when i needed Him." Or, "Where was God when my loved one died." And God replies, "In the same place I was when My Son died." Christ shared in our suffering, understands our pain. Yet we are sinners and He never sinned. He did good for others everywhere He went. We have no right to stand in judgement of God.
Indeed! 2 Peter 3 "Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. *But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare*
And God replies, "In the same place I was when My Son died." So...God was everywhere, as he always is, and that still doesn't answer where he was when we needed him. He says point blank that whatever we ask in his name, we WILL receive. Yet, we still have suffering. That means NO Christian has ever prayed for an end to mankind's suffering, OR God lied, OR the Bible is fiction. Which is it?
@@saintmalaclypse3217 You ignore the caveat "ask in his name" in order to express your disbelief by mockery and impugning the Faith of all believers. You understand what that means. Peter described your position perfectly when he wrote 2 Pet 3:3.
The idea that people want God to be what they want is the problem. In the Bible, God is actually shown to be the answer for evil, not the God they want. God does not take away the problems of this physical world like animals, insects and human suffering. He provides the answers to the spiritual world and like Dr. Lennox said, hope for the future. In addition, through Christ God has paid for our sins and gives us new life and complete forgiveness for all our sin if we trust, believe and love him. Excellent video!
Actually the Bible demonstrates that evil exists because of God. God created evil All of the problems that you say are the fault of humans is actually the fault of God You guys want to excuse him for reasons that surpass understanding and pretend that he's at the good guy when he is, demonstrably, the bad guy
@@keithziegler8881 Actually mankind started evil, Adam and Eve disobeyed God. However God showed mercy on them and gave them life even though they would have to struggle with the ramifications of sin. God showed mercy on mankind by revealing himself to Abram and leading him to start a people that God would bless and help through this sinful world. Then God demonstrates his love for all mankind by sending Christ to pay the penalty of sin for mankind. By trusting and relying on Christ's atonement for your sins and turning to him as your Lord, you as well as anyone can be forgiven and given new life and grated heaven. God has done something about the sin problem that is the reason for evil.
@@keithziegler8881 Your response to the idea of evil and God shows that you have a very limited knowledge of the Bible. I am not trying to offend you at all. Perhaps starting with the book of Genesis with an open mind would help. In addition, looking into the numerous times that God rescued people, including the New Testament Gospels like John. It took me a while to understand faith and God and the Bible. I was resistant for many years because I didn't understand God's perspective. Simply ask the Lord to show you and he will friend. The Lord wants to be your friend and savior and show you his ways.
@@paulgoodner2687 Okay, let's go over this because there is SO much to unpack here 1) first of all we need to deal with the elephant in the room that is the fact that Adam and Eve is a myth because human beings are any of all species just like every other living thing on this planet. The overwhelming biological genetic and anthropological evidence makes that literally undeniable fact. I know it's humbling to just be like every other living thing and not be special and being created by a all powerful God, but we have to deal with that as the reality that it is Having said that let's move on 2) Adam and Eve did not start evil with their, "disobedience". If you remember Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil. Therefore they could not know that disobeying God was evil therefore they are blameless. It's no different than someone who is temporarily insane but may commit a violent crime. If they are unaware of their actions and unaware that their actions are wrong they cannot be held accountable. That is the exact same for Adam and Eve. 3) God did not show mercy because it is God's fault that it happened in the first place. By your own Bible's declaration God is all-knowing and therefore he knew ahead of time that Adam and Eve were going to eat from the tree even after he told her not to. He also knew that they had no knowledge that what they were doing was evil therefore blaming them for it and then saying you're going to offer them, "mercy" was not an act of mercy in any way shape or form explaining the innocent for his screw ups and his failures. God used Adam and Eve as a scapegoat and nothing more 4) God did not reveal himself to Abraham. You don't even have evidence of an Abraham, or as you call it Abram. It's a story in a book with no evidence to support it. A book that we also have shown is demonstrably false in multiple areas 5) the Christ story is nothing more than somebody trying to fulfill the prophecies from the Old Testament and writing out what they thought would be a Christ figure. The Gospels are anonymous, meaning you have no idea who wrote them. But we do know that they were written decades almost a century after the supposed events and they were not written by eyewitnesses. 6) you have no evidence of Christ, you have no evidence of miracles, you have no evidence of a resurrection. Even if we grant that the Jesus in the Bible was based on a single individual, and not multiple individuals all put together into one, you cannot prove divinity, cannot prove miracles, you cannot prove resurrection. It's a story and nothing more 7) is ridiculous nonsense that any person with common sense would understand that the whole Christ thing was 100% unnecessary nonsense. If God wanted to forgive mankind that all he had to do was forgive. There was no necessity for a sacrifice, there was no necessity for atonement except God said so. Therefore, the entire Christ thing is simply because God made dumb rules that he could've changed anytime you want it to and simply forgive. 8) I have never committed a sin because there is no such thing as sin because as part of your particular mythology that we already know has no basis in reality and is based on the book that has multiple false claims that we have proven false and therefore have no reason to believe whatsoever. 9) there is no such thing as evil, it is a concept, it is an idea, it is a OPINION and nothing more. Based on what we read from the Bible your God is evil, vile, vindictive, cruel, capricious, xenophobic, homophobic, trans phobic, misogynistic, genocidal, homicidal, sociopathic lunatic Even if I did believe in God, and I can't because I deal in reason and facts not mythology and, "belief", I would never worship a God that I am morally superior to You, by the way are also morally superior to the God of the Bible… So is everyone on earth I am thankful that your God is nothing but a myth created by a bunch of ignorant, stupid, murders, marauding, barbaric proto-Jews in the Bronze Age. Because that means I don't have to way about it, because it's just another myth like Zeus or Odin or Ra. Take your bronze age mythology, and your ridiculous notion of mercy that aren't mercy and go away I have no time for your lies
@@paulgoodner2687 Well don't worry about it Paul because you can offend me with a false statement I know more about the Bible than you do, which is why I first will understand that it's filled with nonsense and myth that we have proven to be false, but I also understand that it is not talking about a loving God but the exact opposite… That's what you get when you have great knowledge of the Bible and honesty as well. Something I find that believers have neither of I have read the entire Bible with an open mind, that's one of the reasons why I no longer believe in the nonsense. Genesis is false. Scientific evidence demonstrates that Genesis is false. Just talking about humans alone. We know there was no Adam and Eve that gave birth to all of humanity, human beings are an evolved species and the overwhelming scientific evidence make that an undeniable fact The path of that evolution is still in question and were still learning, but there was no Adam and Eve, therefore there was no original sin, therefore there was no fall of man, therefore there was no need for redemption, therefore there was no need for Christ, therefore the entire New Testament is nonsense As for the New Testament itself, whether were talking about the gospel of John or Mark or whoever, were talking about stuff that was written by unknown sources, written decades after the events, and contain no eyewitness accounts. If you didn't know that fact that I am happy to share with you. You don't know who wrote the Gospels, but we know they were written by eyewitnesses There is no, "God's perspective" because there is no God. God is a creation of the human mind. Nothing more. Human beings created in God because they were intelligent enough to ask questions, but to ignorant to know the answers Where just under come from, why does the ground shake, why are there tsunamis, and hurricanes, and volcanic eruptions, and on and on. We didn't have the answers, so the answers became some all-powerful being or beings. But as we have learned we have needed the God filler less and less Science has replaced the claims about God and divinity repeatedly over the centuries but not want has religion replaced science By the way, before I stop believing I did exactly what you said, I BEGGED God to show me. And it never happened. I understand why it did happen, because there was no one there to answer your But even if he was real, I would not want to be friends with your what I want to be saved by a file you will be eating I superior to morally speaking Sorry, but I am to moral and far too GOOD for your God. By the way, that's not arrogance, it's just fact… It's also a fact that you and every human being on earth are ALSO too good for your God I hope you escape the death cult the you are part of and to you do you have my sympathies and my pity
With the greatest of respect sir, I think you missed the bit where the interviewer asked “suppose it’s all true… what would Stephen Fry say to him” As he doesn’t believe such a being exists it’s impossible to be angry at it
I'm English and have always found Stephen Fry massively overrated. He might have been 'funny' 40ish years ago but now he's just tedious. Being posh doesn't make you right.
But how did god get here? Is god nothing? If not, then what did he come from? If he has always been, then why can’t the universe itself have always been? You say this is your lynch pin “something can’t come from nothing” but you can’t apply it to your own god. Maybe you believe because you want to and not because of any actual fact or reasoning.
@@Charon58 God is outside the universe. The univers isn't God. The univers is a creation, so it's created and point towards a Creator. Whare comes God from, you have to figured out. I can't tell you everything. This I tell you God is eternal and outside the created universe.
@@milesmason1343 Matthew 16:4 King James Version (KJV) A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign. What proof do you need/look for? Are you really seeking truth?
There is a level of tyranny imbedded in the question "why would God allow evil to exist?" implicit in that question is the the thought that "I wouldn't allow evil to exist." That if they had the power of God, they would impose their will on others, strip away their free will in order to exact their ideal world. Lot's of regimes though out history had that exact same idea, that they could "perfect" humans, those ideas never end well.
@@jonnyxquest You’re wasting your time on the last four words of the question while begging the question and assuming god exists. Start with providing evidence for gods existence. Get that out of the way before jumping to, “allow evil to exist.” I’ll wait.
@EverettVinzant I don't understand what it is you're trying to say. If you're an atheist, then all there that exists is the will of man, so why wouldn't you concern yourself with that? You're basically telling me "no, Hitler isn't a threat, I'd rather talk about fairy tails."
@@jonnyxquest “Then all that exists is the will of man…” I know that. But the people making laws are pretending that they are justified by claiming they are doing the will of a god. If they weren’t ascribing their actions to this nonsense, then they wouldn’t have anything to blame the things they are doing on, would they? Hitler was a threat because he blamed his right to commit genocide on his religious beliefs. And religious leaders like the pope stood aside and allowed him to commit atrocities. You’re the one endorsing fairy tales…
@@jonnyxquest Begging the question means that you are assuming facts not in evidence. You are assuming a god exists, when you start with “why would god…” Stop there. What god? Man has created 4600 gods. I’d also ask, why the one you picked? I concern myself with the nonsense of religion because it is used as an excuse for bad public policy. Texas outlawed abortion. Maternal deaths have risen 15%. I have two daughters. Of course I’m going to stand against the nonsense of religion.
Technically God could create World free of Evil and with free will. The thing is this is not possible in this world. But if he can do anything this should be possible.
There IS no satisfying answer (for most people), but then again, the very fact that we feel that we deserve some sort of satisfying answer before we agree to believe in, trust in, and even seek out a loving relationship with God is deeply rooted in our prideful rebelliousness that brought about evil in the first place. Most of the world hates this: we are God's property. He decided that we should experience evil to see what our rebelliousness (that is, thinking our way is better than God's way) has done to His creation, and the world hates that He chose to point out our filth like that. He does have His reasons, and probably they wouldn't completely make sense to us this side of Heaven anyways. He DOES also have plan to bring about justice. So there are those who say, "I don't get it, God, but I'm Yours, the world is Your. Perhaps, You'll help me know in time. I respect (without needing to understand everything) that You allow and do things according to Your perfect will." (anti-rebelliousness) These people have a higher chance of weathering storms with a certain kind of peace. And there are those who say, "How dare you treat us this way! I know what this is - you are mean and selfish and don't really love us." (which is to say, "God didn't supply an answer that was sufficient, so I assumed the worse in order to support my continued rebelliousness and defiance.") These people sound like they kids throwing a pouty fit... Adult: "Heaven is going to be awesome; no more separation from God, no more evil! He will be able to give us a lot of answers then, if it's even something that we still are bothered about by then." Kid [stomping his foot on the ground with a pouty face and hands shoved in his armpits]: "I'm not gonna go nowhere 'til someone tells me why there is evil here now!!! I WANNA KNOW NOW!" Adult: "The Bible gives us some idea, but I'm afraid that we don't have much time this side of heaven for you to completely understand it now." Kid: "Then, I'm not goin'!" Adult: "... God might spank you because of this attitude, but you're probably just going to call it 'evil' also, so I'm not surprised if He doesn't answer your every fit and meet your every demand-" Kid: "... NOT... GOIN'!!" Adult [sighing]: "... ... Okay."
If the human mind creates God, then what created the human mind?? Randomness and chaos that somehow assembled itself into something as complex as the human brain? Order and design points to an intelligent mind. Why is this so hard to understand??
@@EverettVinzant In logical thinking I consistenly score 100%. Thankfully I started to realise that even with my brain being flawless in logic thinking, I can get things completely wrong. How so? When the input parameters are wrong or more likely incomplete or distorted. My point here, when a Christian and an atheist discuss, they start out with different ideas of the topic, and because of that both might be thinking my side of seeing at things is 100% perfect. I then started to try to understand to other persons view and then it was rather easy for me to see where the real issues are. Good thinking patterns include that ability to take a difference stance in issues. Discussions won't then end in a way that everyone just tries to convince the other of ones points but the real discussion then really starts. Western society with it's critical thinking pattern need to be careful that we do not lose the ability to engage others in a meaningful discussion were both sides are learners. And I think the area where I learned is that I need to be sure that my input is as truthful as it gets, before I even try to find a conclusion. That also something that I saw humanity need to be careful. There are issues that take time to understand, but in this age and time, many people come and say if it's not clear in 2 minutes its a waste of time. That leads to poor thinking, and it leads to sayings that you responded too. And believe me, many people in the past wanted to talk me out of my subjective experiences with God. I get it it's personal and subjective, but they can't be just denied by someone else, just because they don't believe in God to start with. I 100% can understand how others reach a conclusion, while at the same time I maintain their conclusion is not accurate. What I always uneasy fnd is that an atheist immeditley concludes I am not telling the truth, while I just know the other person doesn't know God how I do, and in general pitty them. Still I am willing to listen, not for the sake of the argument, but for a good interpersonal relationship. And one thing I know too, I still have sometimes to change my viewpoint on issues, because someone pointed out the fallacity of my conclusions. This happens to me, because I am aware that no matter how logically sound my argument is, my conclusion still stands for reason, in other words, I am not God. This little thing called humility can do wonders.
@@S.D.323 Yeah, I don’t get why people act like Job is a mic drop answer to suffering. If you read the story literally, it says God wanted to win a bet but he tells Job who are you to question me, I’m God. Job was given an answer from God.
@@rjearhart2402 God didn't give an answer to Job because God doesn't answer to His own creation - some things are simply beyond our understanding, and other things (even if we could understand them) will never be known by us..... Anyone who questions that needs to ask how much of their own thought and energy did they put into bringing themselves into existence? Answer: none..... Next step: then shut up.
@@lohi172 Job is a mic drop because it shows that even a blameless righteous man will suffer in this world. Job had the spirit of God. Those who have the Holy Spirit belong to God to do as he pleases, even if is to 'just win a bet.'
Notice how he said I'd believe in another god but not the god of the Bible. Everyone mocks and disrespects Jesus but not Allah or Buddha or Shiva or any other religion. If there was a good and evil why is the 1 religion under attack so strongly? Maybe because the evil side knows it's real and tries to keep you from it.
You are correct, Jesus gets a special attack, because Jesus Christ is the only way that separation from God is bridged, the only way that the penalty of sin is removed, and that's why evil forces attack it. The reason that individuals reject Jesus is because they choose themselves over God (and wow did that atheist guy in the video ever show that). Those that choose God as the greatest good rather than themselves will choose the way to relationship/reconciliation that God has provided, which is through His son Jesus that paid the penalty of sin on one's behalf.
If you live in a country where Christianity is the most popular and creates the most impact, it makes sense that most of the pushback will be to that belief rather than others that have a relatively small impact. Certainly you can find people arguing against Islam and other religions, too, but if you aren’t part of those communities and you don’t look for them, you probably aren’t going to find them. With Islam, I think it’s much scarier for many to oppose those beliefs since in some countries you can get in big trouble.
@@nickdriscoll6131 And Judaism, Christianity isnt politically radioactive like the other two. The main issue I have with christianity is its similarity tbh and my disagreement that to tie our moral values to god is the way forward. Theres always a human medium interpreting the truth for you that way and tribalism is what got us into this mess in the first place, its not so simple. The disrespect the tribe has for the individual has the potential to destroy lives and it isnt the individuals fault.
There are people who mock Islam as well as every other religion. You've never heard of South Park roasting Scientology or Mormons? Does that make you feel better?
Stephen Fry it’s a good thing you have free will and you do and can live your life exactly how you want and if anything goes wrong you can blame God. God Bless you Stephen Fry, Jesus loves you!!!❤❤❤
No one has the free will to live as they wish, scripture states; "a man's steps are not his own" thus clarifying that no one has free will, but to choose to do things by our own will is to reject God's will, Stephen Fry therefore is wrong, he is very, very wrong! but he denies God because he knows in his heart that in recognising God, he would also have to recognise his own guilt and being homosexual imprisons him in his guilt and that's why Stephen Fry lives in denial of God.
@@normancherry8732 You have shown, how religions can spread hate and make people believe in nonsense. Biblical god is evil monster, so it shouldn't be surprising. But luckly there are believers, who have better morals than you and your god and are able to deny that extremist part of their religion.
Illogical drivel. Circular reasoning, as it citing the bible as a reference source for all manner of nonsense. Feel free to delude yourself as much as you like, but you're not deluding me.
What kills me, is that Stephen Fry is a learned man..he has studied the apostolic fathers and many others, wrestle with and destroy the “problem” of evil. He knows the answer and rejects it because he has a heart issue, not because the answer isn’t compelling.
Did he say that? In the video he questioned the goodness (and existence) of God because of the suffering of innocent children. Although I'll admit I don't see why someone suffering is more likely to turn to god anyway. But...I think I may be missing something so whatev.
@@pyrrhicvictory6707We fear that You may be missing Everything!!! Prayers for the lost and deceived and prayers for their victims! Prayers for us ALL!!! ❤️🔥🙏🙏🙏❤️🔥
You touched on something I've noticed too (and not just from SF but others) - he sounds so angry when the topic comes up, like personally angry. If he really didn't believe God exists, why anger? It almost seems like it's not so much that he doesn't believe in God, but that he just doesn't like Him. Almost a spirit of " Everyone says you're all good - well, not to me you're not - and I for one, refuse to say you exist - that'll show you God! Take that!"
@@Blurjum2.0 I’ll give you an example of why anger. Politicians are using religious nonsense to set the clock back on civil rights. In Texas they’ve taken away a woman’s right to bodily autonomy because “religion.” Since this change in public policy, the maternal death rate has climbed 15%. It’s so bad that Texas is hiding it by changing the way data is collected, counted, and identified so it can’t be as easily compared historically. Women are dying because a fetus dies in their womb, rots, causes sepsis, and nobody lifts a finger because if a physician assists they’ll be punished for saving the woman’s life by performing an abortion. I have two daughters, guess how much religious nonsense used as an excuse for law pisses me off. Take a guess. If you’re not angry, you’re oblivious to reality.
It also seems like people who think God is evil just totally ignore the way they act and treat people. They act evil towards others and hurt others because they are hurt. The healing they need they reject. They need to accept God's love for them but they keep wiggling out of his arms!
@@kladies3021 The Bible documents that the god you claim exists committed genocide multiple times. I’ve never done that. Have I ever been mean to someone? Yup. Have I ever apologized to someone for being mean to them? Yup. That provided the healing we both needed. Did it have anything to do with the god you claim exists? Nope. I can’t square the circle of genocide = being mean to someone. Help me understand.
@@kladies3021 The Bible documents that the god you are talking about tried to remove entire gene pools of humans from the human race, multiple times. I’ve been mean to someone before. I’ve apologized to them. We both got the healing we needed without the intervention of this god that there’s no evidence for.
@@EverettVinzantStalin, Lenin, Karl Marx have a plethora of destruction and death that have followed their systems that ban God. I haven't seen any fruit from atheism that would make me consider it as good for humanity. I believe in Jesus. But I also have lots of problems with Darwin and atheism as a worldview.
Stephen frys pain is palpable, l pray that Stephen's heart be moved by Jesus Christ and come to know him ❤that would be amazing, pray for him because he has enormous effect on people, including my family.
Your channel has really helped me grow in my walk with Christ. In my free time I have been translating your videos into Japanese for my friend in Japan. I decided to post it, linking to your channel. Just incase, ya know? God can do a lot with a little. Thank you for your work brother.
This world is far away from being a divine design: Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day. Of course thats not because of human sin: Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
@user-vm5yk2js6w If God created time, he is infinitely dimensional. He could have created the Earth in 1 Day, 12 minutes, it doesn't matter, HE CHOSE to do it a certain way. Things like "Time" are irrelevant to Him. When God looks at YOU. He doesn't see you "right now" YOU are riding the wave of time, little dirt monkey. Not Him. When He looks at us, when He sees the world, He sees ALL OF IT. ONE IMAGE. So when God chooses to act is relative to US. HE decides how to story looks FROM OUR SIDE. People who don't understand what it means to be "The One True God" or the "Ultimate Transcendent Being/Mind" have LITTLE understanding of Metaphysics. The deeper questions are WHY. And the answer is Jesus. Understand Christian Theology better, before you critique it. Otherwise, we won't take it as seriously.
@user-vm5yk2js6w Ultimately, your entire comment boiled down to a heart issue. "I don't like animals suffering" well neither does God. Read Job 38. These Moral questions aren't simple. That's why the Bible took THOUSANDS of years. Humans are slow to learn. But God is patient.
It's all ego and hubris to even assume we understand anything about right and wrong, good and evil. It's all value judgement based on our complete ignorance of the grand scheme of things. The challenge is to accept that all is good and is unfolding as it is meant to even when we have no understanding of it.
I just can’t wrap my head around how so many “intellectuals” have such a limit to the depth in which they’re able to think. The argument “there is so much suffering in the world so there cannot be a God” is what I’d expect from a 6th grader. If there was no suffering here, it would already be Heaven. What would be the point of incarnating on Heaven to then die and go to Heaven? There is no growth in that. They can’t consider that maybe the entire purpose of being put into a human body is to know pain so we can grow and learn lessons so we can fully appreciate the unconditional love and bliss we get to experience out of the body?
You can't get your head around it because you've created a strawman in your head. The problem of evil takes many forms in this case it's the notion that there is VAST amounts of pointless suffering in the world, the example by Stephen Fry highlights suffering that's built into the world. If you believe in God you have to ask yourself what exactly does an inspect exploding from childs eye do that's remotely positive. It's not teaching anything, there isn't a soul building element. It's just pointless from a theistic point of view.
@@francisa4636it is teaching stuff. To both the insect and the child. Everything is run by the great law of Karma. Within the context of reincarnation.
@patinho5589 no its explicitly not teaching anything of moral value in this context. Indeed if anything the only lessons to be drawn is that the world is a cruel pointless place where the innocent have cruel afflictions through no fault of there own.
@@francisa4636it may seem of no moral value because 1. Our brains are limited and unable to comprehend its value until we “cross over” and become fully enlightened and/or 2. The value is that the collective feels empathy for such suffering, thus increasing our capacity for human connection. So, they may seem like a “sacrificial lamb” for the rest of society but their soul chose that as their mission before they incarnated as their ”contribution” to the world. Also, for the person who is suffering from such horror, they come to understand that the moral value from such a cruel experience is understanding peace on a level they can’t imagine (until they’re not on this earth experiencing the pain anymore). Obviously these are just some “optimistic”, perhaps wild sounding theories. And they can be fully disagreed with of course, but not until great consideration and contemplation is given to those ideas. And not just a “yeah, ok, I read it but immediately dismissed it” consideration. But, *actual* thoughtful and earnest consideration. 3 1/2 years ago I would have thought everything I typed just now was utterly insane, but I was thrown, so-to-speak, into a radical spiritual rabbit hole deep dive and after some time, I opened my mind up to the idea that our brains are just really too small to comprehend and some of these concepts are at least up for debate
Find out more about The Wisdom Society HERE: www.dailydoseofwisdom.co/join-the-wisdom-society-yt
Are you getting dislike botted?, why are these athiests to angry with you.
@@99range92def Because these ignorant people vote and control the rest of us to live by their evil backward rules. It's our duty to stop ignorance. We don't want to bring children into a religious reality.
@@99range92def Yes, there definitely seems to be some bot activity, no idea whose behind it, but all are welcome here ❤
@@Daily_Dose_Of_Wisdom Yeah thought so i went through some of your videos saw anywhere from 30-60% dislikes, then some videos had close to 99 % likes.
@@Daily_Dose_Of_Wisdom It's not bots. It's people like me, who don't like your grift being passed off as reality. Stop feeling sorry for yourself!
When I was 18 yrs old, some people, whom I loved and trusted deeply, did a great many evil things to me which affected me emotionally and spiritually over many years.
Thirty years later, my parish priest agreed the burden was too great for me to resolve on my own, and too many years had passed to confront those responsible..... So, he told me to bundle up these incidents and their many unresolved issues, and to lay my bundle at the foot of The Cross with a prayer "Dear Lord, I leave this bundle with You so that You may bring forth whatever good from these evils as You see fit, while I continue to try and live my life as You require in your Grace and Love... Amen"
...... that was 20 yrs ago, and I've never looked back to this day - try it for yourself ➕
This sounds like a powerful therapeutic process. It would only work on one who accepts Christian precepts though. A Muslim would rather place his bundle before Allah. A Buddhist would lay his bundle at the feet of the Buddha...e.t.c.
@@OneTheBlue I believe this was far more than a mere "therapeutic process" because I know for certain that Jesus took my burden and was with me through the last 20 yrs (for reasons I won't go into here) ..... How this "therapeutic process" might work for those of other faiths would be a matter for them, obviously.
@@cgo225Beautifully put. Blessings ever from Belfast.
Why couldn’t you get some resolution here on earth to the evil that was done to you why listen to someone who says leave it in the hands of God, sorry I don’t understand why you wouldn’t fight for justice
Wow. This helps me so much. Thank you for sharing this gem 💎 with us. Praise be to the God!
Writing your testimony down and intend to do the same thing.
Thank you.
When I hear the question "Couldn't God have created a world without evil, suffering, etc., I think "He did! We introduced sin to it".
We did? He created us sinners knowing we would sin. HE introduced that sin.
"Couldn't God just not create us at all so there wouldn't be this problem?Geeeeze", basically materialists want the cake and eat it too.
Exactly! Beat me to it. We live in a fallen world. We separated ourselves from God. This is no surprise to Christians. That's why we're called to be the salt of the earth.
@haitaelpastor976 No. He created us pefect with free will and so we wouldn't be slaves in paradise offered a choice to rebel against him.
We rebelled and these evil things followed
How did we introduce evil to a world devoid of evil? Isn't something that introduces evil also evil?
"God does not remain distant from the problem of human suffering, but has himself become part of it [by dying on the cross]." what a good quote.
So why does human suffering continue? Why did hundreds of millions suffer at the hands of authoritarian regimes in the 20th Century? God died in human form? Big deal. Suffering continued. God hasn’t ended it.
But the Cross was a one off, suffering is still perpetually ongoing.
I don't know, kind of feels exactly the same as remaining distant from our suffering.
No human EVER suffered while knowing they could and would resurrect themselves. He did not become a part of "human suffering" in any way that resembles how WE suffer. When we suffer, we may have no way of ending it, no way of knowing it WILL end, and no way of deciding when and where the suffering will happen at our convenience.
God decided when he would suffer, how he would suffer, how long he would suffer, how he would end it, and most importantly, he decided it would NOT have any long-term consequences on him. He was omnipotent before the cross, and he was omnipotent after. He lost nothing.
Our suffering costs us in many ways; it reduces our physical abilities, it reduces our mental capacity, it reduces our ability to interact with the world, it takes our loved ones from us, and it ultimately takes our time on earth away from us.
God lost NOTHING by posting himself up on a board for a weekend. If He lost nothing, then He didn't suffer much, if at all. He was just inconvenienced for a weekend, at most.
I recently heard someone approach this with this analogy. Imagine a doctor comes in and tells you he’s got good news and bad news. “The bad news is you have cancer,” he says. “The good news is I have it too!” A god willing to suffer what we suffer provides as much comfort as a torturer willing to be tortured as well. It’s a bit demented, but Christians have spun this to be some sort of compassion.
Stephen Fry is one of the first people coming to mind when trying to explain someone what is the difference between being smart and being wise.
Worshipping anyone except Allah is an unforgivable sin - (Quran 4:48, 4:116).
(That means if not repented before dying moment and before death then it's an unforgivable sin).
Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.
- (Quran 4:18).
La ilaha illallahu Muhammadar rasulullah - (There is no deity but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah).
Allah forgives all sins if anyone repents to him - (Quran 39:53).
The problem is the prophecies of the One to come from God Almighty has to be a descendant of king David. Several prophets stated this. Mohammad was not a descendant of king Davud therefore never was God's chosen messenger. The Koran states Jesus us the Christ. The word means the anointed One. God's chosen. Every time any follower of Mohammed calls Jesus, Christ, they acknowledge Jesus is the only true revelation and messenger of God for He is from God.
Don't worry about religion guys just get on with life morales evolve as well evolve religion has nothing to do with it
@@bertrandruskin3406 May be for that time but Prophet Muhammad is the descendant of Prophet Abraham through Prophet Ismail. If you read both the Quran and the Bible you will get commandments to worship only one Allah creator of everything including Jesus and Muhammad.
Indeed the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. Allah created him from dust then said to him be and he was - (Quran 3:59).
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven nor Jesus but only God.
- (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32).
Only Allah knows the hour - (Quran 7:187, 31:34, etc).
Just because something like theism gives people hope, doesn't mean what they hope for is true and they will find life after death. The justification that Lennox gives for evil existing in the world is shallow and doesn't even really answer the question as to why bad things happen in the world.
I am old, disabled and half blind. I also currently can’t leave my home and yet I am blessed because Jesus Christ is my King. He is my salvation and suffered the punishment that I deserve. When I stand in his presence which will be at His command I will have passed into the perfect and eternal from tribulations and finite. Because I have lived with imperfection I will recognize His perfection and His divinity.
Amen brother.
the fool says...."there is no God".
@@michaelbell6088 and you know this to be a fact 100% lead pipe lock right? no you don’t no one does
@@michaelbell6088Right and you believe we are all a cosmic accident. There are no moral absolutes.. There is no evil or good it’s just a matter of opinion that’s your world
First you must know we don’t die! Yes our bodies die but our souls live on Forever. God loves us and He is NOT Cruel. He is loving and kind. We are here on earth because we Chose to be here. Before you are born you make a choice to come to earth and accept the suffering that will only increase your experiences. Videos of NDEs ( Near Death Experiences) are important, so please read some to learn the Truth. peace & love
I lost my parent 6 months apart when I was 18. My mom to cancer and my dad a heart attack. It left me and two young siblings orphans. People would ask me how I could believe in a God who would take away my parents. I said God didn’t take away my parents, cancer/heart attack did. When we go through rough times we become closer to God. God doesn’t let bad things happen, life happens. If God reached down and made every boo boo better how would that teach us about being strong and most importantly cherishing the good times and the love of family and friends. Jesus suffered for us on the cross just as we suffer sometimes in life and end the end we will spend eternity next to God and our loved ones.
I love how you see the world. God bless you
Bs you are making an excuse for your incompetent god
“For as the same fire causes gold to glow brightly and chaff to smoke; and under the same flail the straw is beaten small, while the grain is cleansed…….so the same violence of affliction proves, purges, clarifies the good, but damns, ruins, exterminates the wicked.”
St Augustine, “The city of God”
Written about 413 AD
Sorry for your loss, but your answer doesn't make sense. You said cancer happens. Isn't God more powerful than cancer and all-good, therefore willing to remove cancer?
@@goranmilic442
Do you think all suffering is evil?
“The Lord is good, a strong refuge when trouble comes. He is close to those who trust in him.”
Nahum 1:7
Lot offered his daughters sex slaves to group of men! Lot had sex with his daughters! Incest is wrong! Jesus Christ is not coming back!!
I'll have to be brief, but an experience I had so shifted my view of God on this. I lost a baby that I so wanted, my husband at the time didn't want children and was suicidal over this, doctors also thought I had cancer, etc, I lost the baby at 16 weeks pregnancy. God was so present with such love and compassion for me at that time it so healed me emotionally of the trauma and made me see that such things in life aren't things that "God does to us" but instead God is "so WITH US" in our suffering with loving compassion. We need to change how we view God around this.
Very wise words. 100% coming from Pain. You represent Christianity in real life. GOD bless your loving Heart!
ultrasound causes brain abnormalities in rats. even when "a problem is detected", ultrasounds do not increase chances of success. the most common thing i've heard about ultrasounds is the doctor pointing at one saying "oh, this isn't good, you should have an abortion" and the child perfectly healthy 26 years later. doctor means falsify.
Amen❤❤
Yeah, you can be Job. I will not.
No wounded the man has intrusive thoughts, you’re psycho
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”- From Ephesians 6
Reality supports The Word, not materialism.
Materialism would make concepts of good and evil absurd. Stephen Hawkings wrote that if we’re merely made up of natural processes then free will is an illusion.
If free will is an illusion, independent thought and choice are an illusion.
Yet our conscience dictates otherwise.
I guess my point is that if we were truly the biological machines that scientific naturalists declare we are, then we would not clamor for justice nor would we be having these conversations .
Excellent as always.
This world is far away from being a divine design:
Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day.
Of course thats not because of human sin:
Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
This world is far away from being a divine design:
Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day.
Of course thats not because of human sin:
Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
Truly biological machines actually would clamor for justice if they were social creatures that evolved living together in groups. Groups that cooperated and exiled those that violated the rules, would thrive and outcompete those that didn't. Those groups with sets of rules that led to objectively better outcomes would thrive and outcompete those that didn't.
If free will is an illusion, and my thoughts are all a result of a prior chain of material events, that does not make my actions and thoughts not mine. My thoughts are still independent in that no one else is having them. Only I experience them. A large part of the prior chain is my individual/independent biology and life experiences.
@Tinesthia would you say that they lead to good outcomes? What if only 1% controlled and decided the way for the other 99%? These outcomes benefit the few and exile the many so to speak.
Could this idea be based off of humanities experience throughout history? If so, humanities experience has always held itself to a higher power or powers. And as religions lose following especially in the west we find our lives becoming worse when by all metrics they should be better. As we live longer, we are fed, we have the ability to communicate with anyone in the world, all the information we need at our fingertips. These days average people seem more disenfranchised than ever.
It would be interesting if we could use something like suicide rate to measure whether we are more depressed now than before when before religion held more sway.
No, if God did not exist, life would not become 'simpler, purer, clearer'. The eyeball eating insects still exist, the bone cancer still exists. Bad things don't disappear when God is disposed of. If anything, the suffering becomes pointless, without meaning, truly without hope, and THAT is monstrous.
you're so close to getting it
If God didn't exist, neither would we. Nor anything... for that matter.
What is the point of suffering with the existence of God? Does it exist because he enjoys it? Because he cannot prevent it?
@@dcshelAmen
obviously yes. but what would you expect from a world made by a perfect loving god? and what would you expect from world that came about in a cold uncaring universe?
We are not brainwashed or delusional. I am 52 years old and only became a Christian 7 years ago. I led a life of self gratification and believed i would still go to heaven. I spent my life looking for something but not finding it. I can only describe it as a black hole in me that could never be filled ( no amount of lovers or money or success at work could fill this hole in me). Now i know differently. My eyes were opened and God came into my life and filled that hole. I am at peace. I had never read the bible before becoming Christian and yet now i am thirsty for its knowledge. Its a history book and full of answers. I urge non believers to just read it and pray earnestly for god to come into your life. Dont underestimate prayer, he listens. Many of my prayers have been answered and i totally put my trust in him. I have never been happier, so blessed. I will be praying for all non beleivers today, that your eyes will be opened to the truth. Christians join me ❤
The bible isn't Christian!
.
@@niklar55 Truly seek the truth for why you are alive and you will find it. Can you handle the truth?
he knows, he is simply trying to scandalize you and project.
@@StevesDIYGarage
I already have, and it's NOT in the bible!
Can YOU handle the truth?
@@niklar55 2 Timothy 3:16-17 - All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
1:42 GASP! I can’t imagine ever thinking or speaking this way towards God. Have mercy on us Lord.🙏
He thinks he is being very smart and clever by speaking like that.In fact,it makes him look pathetic.I would not want to be him on judgement day.
You will not get mercy from that murderous, slave sanctioning, controlling, jealous, narcissist. Good job he is only , like all the other gods man made
Don't you think it's THAT reaction you just did, that makes what Stephen Fry said right?
You shouldn't need to beg for a so called "Benevolent and all loving God" to show Mercy.
What being, on ANY level, in their right mind would WANT to be feared? Fear does NOT equal to Respect and you're not supposed to fear someone or something that is supposed to make you feel safe.
It's like parents and their children, if the child fears the parent, the parent has failed in their obligation AS a parent. Your child is meant to love AND respect you. To be brave and someday go forth in their independence, with you knowing they'll be okay, because YOU taught them right...not be afraid of you, cower to you and plead for your better judgement.
@@innerguardianXIII He is spot on about this man made god being a murdering controlling evil thug
@@innerguardianXIII Fear means respect in biblical terms.It does not mean to be frightened.God must be respected as we know He cannot allow sin to be ignored.He must take action against sin.
You can tell how pleased Fry is with himself. He hasn’t really thought deeper than a teenager about God and suffering.
And yet there are only cope outs to this question like free will (which does not exist) or the higher reasoning of god about evil.
@@redien4785free will doesn't exist ? Then how are we all not a bunch of hive minded robots ? 🤣 Explain where consciousness comes from
Very much agree.
@@illaxeye43 "free will doesn't exist ?" According to the available evidence, no it does not.
" Explain where consciousness comes from" It evolved like anything else biological.
You can tell how pleased Lennox is with himself. He hasn’t really thought deeper than a teenager about God and suffering
John Lennox spoke of brain tumours. My husband suffered and died from a brain tumour. I believe that my husband would never have turned to Christ if it hadn't happened. After years of prayer for him, he finally, at his final hours trusted Christ. Yes, he was a very stubborn and arrogant man who had a need for healing. His healing came by death. God is fair. He takes the wounded and heals them, the way He sees fit.
That sounds like the ending of 1984.
@@meredithgreenslade1965 Unfortunately, the opposite is also true. Many people who have experienced terrible and terminal diseases have lost their faith. They became bitter and walked away from God.
@@vparakhindo you think people who are truly saved can lose their faith? I’d suggest, perhaps, those people never had a true faith and would be met with a response like “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers.”
Your defence of evil and suffering is sickening. "Hadn't found Christ otherwise.." Appalling!
GOD bless, awesome testimony!!
Been through it myself. What gets lost on atheists is this flesh is not the end!
Spiritually we are all like the prodigal son, he took the good life in his Father's good world for granted and chose to leave, finally when he had experienced enough evil and changed his mind, the Father gladly accepted him back with loving open arms.
Eh I'd argue quite a few of us are like the prodigal brother.
La ilaha illallahu Muhammadar rasulullah - (There is no deity but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah).
Worshipping anyone except Allah is an unforgivable sin - (Quran 4:48, 4:116).
(That means if not repented before dying moment and before death then it's an unforgivable sin).
Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.
- (Quran 4:18).
Allah forgives all sins if anyone repents to him - (Quran 39:53).
@@Mdsoyabaktar25Mohammad came after Christ was on the earth...Could it be that the true Words of Christ were plagerised and twisted to decieve? Just a question to consider...
Jesus came as a human.. He could’ve prevented everything that happened to Him, but he didn’t.. he went through it all physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.. And while on the cross, he took on God’s wrath that was meant for us 😢 so us, millions of people that lived and died- He did took it for us.. And I praise Him with all my heart 🥰 I get to go and live with Him in heaven as I’m born again Christian and I repent all my sins.. He is with us in our sufferings as well as in our happiness.. He’s been through it too ❤
I used to say the same things as Mr Fry, and then one day, I just knew....And I thank the Father everyday for waking me up.
singing ‘hallelujah’ for His faithfulness to waken us. Jesus Christ did not come to condemn but to save. ( John 3:17)
You did not
You 'just knew'. Sounds like a lurking, in-built psychological issue. It's not proof of god rofl. You and anyone believing an internal voice is god should get that seen to by a psychologist.
Did you get a lobotomy?
So god create insect that is eating children eye and you are ok with that??
Rabbi Irwin Kurshner, author of "When Bad Things Happen to Good People," once observered observed that one important thing Christianity gave to the world was the concept of the Suffering God. That people did not suffer alone. God, in Christ in them, was sharing in their suffering.
That is a powerful idea.
I’ve been thinking about this recently. What if God feels our suffering even more than we do?
Not really. Humanity understood ‘community’ long before Christianity came along.
@@thefuturist8864
Two distinctly different concepts, involving two separate spheres of knowledge.
I'm sorry your mind can't grasp the distinctions between them. Or even that there are distinctions between them.
Sort of like conflating philosophy with theology.
@@posthawk1393
The Gospel asserts He does; that that is the deepest revelation of Christ dying on the cross. That God Himself because He lives within us, feels both our sufferings and our joys with us, as we live through them.
No one suffers alone. He is not just with us, but in us.
This world is far away from being a divine design:
Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day.
Of course thats not because of human sin:
Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
We will all find out the truth in just a little while. Praise Elohim!
Way to wait you can't know now God's perfect plan for you
No, we actually won't. Because we'll be dead. And being dead, you don't learn anything.
'...the suffering does not go away but it removes all hope...' excellent
@@zarailly why should I hope for an eternity with a god I cannot see? People can, have, and do find purpose in life without any god.
@@bluecat4802 sure, they can live to their own chosen purpose. Anyone can right? but it doesn't prepare you for the next life.
@@zarailly Ah but what I mean is that atheism is not hopeless. Not everyone wants to live forever. As for your other point, the atheist does not believe in a next life.
@@bluecat4802 it's irrelevant to what is true, anyone can make up their own reality and be happy with it
@@zarailly reality is not the argument you are making. My understanding is that we are discussing whether the atheist position is hopeless, and I don’t believe it is.
Human trafficking stumbles my faith. While we're singing "Your goodness is running after me", and "Count your many blessings", my heart breaks for those enslaved! Then I remember that our hope is not in THIS world. THIS world is passing away. Our hope is in being resurrected with Christ and inheriting eternal life in a new and better world.
That’s nice, but provides no comfort to anyone else. As a non-believer I do what I can to help the enslaved.
@@stephenjoseph5265 what do you do to help them?
@@melissaelliott2966 I’m involved in a charity that goes to Eastern Europe to help recovering victims who’ve escaped. I didn’t mean to sound harsh by the way, I’ve seen the suffering first hand and it turned me from my faith in Christ. La Strada International.
@@stephenjoseph5265So do you blame actual humans that cause what you consider “evil” now that you don’t believe in a Creator?
If Christ is not real, then why does suffering still exist? The human trafficking never stopped, diseases keep killing babies and children, murder still is happening? Why is that the case?
Why didn’t you help African Americans in America who suffered from slavery and Jim Crow instead of Eastern Europe?
Look into the 5 promises we make
He doesn’t have to worry. God allows us to have our way. He doesn’t want God, God will give him his way.
Such a silly answer
Meanwhile you did die the fact that the only reason people go to hell it because God sends them to hell… If you deny that your simply lying and people like me know not to bother talking to you because you're not going to be honest in the conversation
Of course you can even demonstrate that God exists so believing in God is automatically irrational
@@keithziegler8881 Hmmm...I think you have cornered the market on Silly and irrational.. God created us as free will beings. We can choose to acknowledge him, accept him, or not. If we seek him, he will reveal himself. "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. We choose to be with God or not. He loves us so much he will not over ride your will and force you to be with him for eternity. Hell is the ultimate absence of God. If that's what you want, you will have it.
" Frank Turek has excellent arguments for the existence of God, Here's one; The science tells us, All time space and matter appeared form literally Nothing 13.8 billion years ago. Therefore the cause has to be Time less (eternal,) Space less, (infinite, ) and matter less (Spirit,) It also has to be immeasurably powerful, intellectually far above anything we can conceive and personal to have created. These are the attributes of the Biblical God. Add the fine tuning of the universe, DNA which is 100,000 volumes of specified directions, etc... and the evidenced is overwhelming that a mind is behind everything we see. As an atheist you have to believe that absolutely everything in the universe appeared from absolutely nothing for no reason. Talk about irrational!! I don't have enough faith to be an atheist!Another thing that presents a problem for Atheists is the fact that something has to be eternal, either the material universe, or a non material being who created it. We now know that the universe had an absolute beginning, so that leaves us with an eternal non material cause, ie; God. Because some scientists hate what the evidence tells them, they come up with silly hypotheses like "multiple universes," which there is absolutely ZERO evidence for. But even if it were true, there had to be a beginning universe which does not solve the problem of non eternal matter. Now lets see your well reasoned arguments, and I'll be glad to debate you. Just calling people silly and irrational without a well reasoned argument is weak, very intellectually weak.
@@chrisbera7952 “He doesn’t have to worry.” I agree.
“God…” This is where you come off the rails. Unless you have evidence for god, everything from this point on is all nonsense, fairy tales, and pretending.
@@EverettVinzant I just laid out the evidence in my post, maybe you don't understand the logic of inference, in regards to the facts of the universe's beginning, or understand the fine tuning of the universe that is impossible by chance, or specified information in our DNA which can only come from a mind. You have to believe that immaterial, non thinking matter created itself and for no reason assembled itself into a rational physical law based universe finely tuned to levels impossible by chance, , THEN, somehow, formed proteins, which then assembled themselves into larger biological units for no reason, then into larger life forms. Ribosomes make proteins in cells, yet Ribosomes are made of protein. You believe that happened by chance.
I've laid out some evidence. You just don't like, and or don't have a rebuttal, except for a childish screed. Good luck.
@@chrisbera7952 If you walk into ten bars and ask for a whisky at each bar don't be surprised if you end the evening with ten whiskies.... in other words, in the grand scheme of things we all get what we ask for, but what comfort does the atheist offer to those who suffer and didn't ask for it?
God does not send any soul to Hell, by rejecting God these souls send themselves..... The gates of Hell are locked against God from the INSIDE.
Imagine being stuck in a place, surrounded by people who believe they answer to no-one except themselves, believing they can do whatever they like steal, kill, rape etc...and you're just like them - and it never ends.... . There's Hell for you, right there.
Jesus never said that there would not be pain, he said there would be. I had colan cancer I didn’t blame it on god. I prayed to him and thanked him for saving me.
@@zzfreddy But he DIDN’T save you, you just said you had colon cancer.
Are you a God denier?@@EverettVinzant
@@cameroneagle4370 No. I haven’t seen the evidence you MUST have that shows god exists. I’m excited to finally have access to this evidence. When can I expect you to provide it?
@EverettVinzant I can find evidence that cats are our ultimate rulers, and yet you wouldn't believe me.
You have faith in something. You have a god and a religion... you just don't want to see it that way.
What I'm saying is that you can only see the truth when you want to see it. People still want to believe biden is a capable president. So whatever lies they need to tell themselves about the opponent and the child sniffer will be believed.
@@EverettVinzant so with all the creation surrounding you , that isn't enough evidence that there is a creator ?
Thanks for your work! I'm always struck by the fact that philosophers query the problem of evil and the lack of justice--which is big, but never seem concerned about the lack of love, or indeed about the many perversions of love that exist. Yet if you gave me a choice of whether to live without justice or to live without love, I'd say "Let me live without justice, please." I find that even when I'm treated unjustly, I still have God's love. This is what Jesus has done for me, and for countless others!
Can we imagine Steven Fry standing before the Creator of the Universe and declaring: "Your behaviour is utterly unacceptable". And then goes on, with a smile, to tell us how he finds the Greek gods so much more acceptable in their capricious humanity. Am I missing something?
The key word here is ‘imagine’
Very much so. You're missing the part where your God is ALL-POWERFUL, meaning he COULD have found a way to create a peaceful earth without sacrificing free will. He could have...but chose to do it THIS way instead.
If I COULD invent a doggy bed that made my dog happy, but I CHOSE to invent a doggy bed that slices him to pieces, what would that tell you about me?
@@saintmalaclypse3217in the beginning, God created earth and it was perfect. Until the humans created ate of the tree of knowledge and brought sin.
God gave us all free will. Anything shitty on earth is mankind's doing. Not God's.
@@saintmalaclypse3217He did.. it seems you want no accountability.
God should have done this or that so Adam and Eve could do whatever they want with no consequences/problems!
That sounds like a very entitled position.
Take take take.
God literally gives us EVERYTHING WE NEED and he only asked one thing..
Wow!! Even after thousands of years people still don’t get it!!
@@saintmalaclypse3217 And you're missing the part where human beings, knowing full well from their own experience , nevertheless think fit to bring another child into this world of suffering and death.
Evil? Because sin entered the world. Wisdom begins with believing in God. "Fear (respect)of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom".
God is something that you should be very afraid of. Just respect isn't enough. Here's something to think about, God hates sin. All of us are wreathed in it. Its in christ that we are taken before the father and are justified by our faith. It's that sole aspect that keeps exacted righteous fury from anyone. Yeah God deserves your respect but also he is your GOD not so simply a friend.
But he's all-knowing, correct? If so (correct me if that's not what you believe), he knew that sin would enter into the world. I'm not sure how you can avoid this dilemma. It's really simple, god can either be all-powerful, or all-loving. It is morally impossible for him to be both (if he exists, that is). If he is all-powerful, he is evil. And if he is all-loving, he isn't all-powerful.
@@bradwillis6591 exactly! It is totally incompatible with the concept of an all loving god! Of course a god does not exist but if such an "entity" would exist in reality it would be a celestial monster! God would have created humans imperfect, knows that "he" made them imperfect, knows before they are born that they will end up in an imaginary hell and does nothing to prevent that from happening! So "he" would punish people for eternity for "his" own bad creation! That's utterly insane! Luckily science and especially evolution have already debunked the crux of christianity and the crux of all the other religions I know of ages ago! And there is not a shred of evidence for the existence of ANY god or Allah or whatever name they gave to their non-existing celestial dictator!
@@donnaallen9863 death, evil, injustice, diseases, and suffering already exist since life began here on this small speck of dust called Earth some 3,5 BILLION years ago! So, LONG before the species of great apes called the Homosapiens came into existence by the unguided process called evolution some two hundred thousand years ago! So, the Homosapiens could not possible be the cause of all that!
And pain and suffering is necessary so that we feel when our bodies are in danger! And death is also necessary so that the species can evolve and adapt to the changing environment so that the species can survive! And think of the massive overpopulation if nobody and nothing would die! Life would no longer be possible here on earth!
@@bradwillis6591consider for a moment, if you will. What's the longest you ever enjoyed something before getting bored of it?
Now consider that God calls His people to eternity. That would be boring if not for this: God himself is enough to satisfy for eternity. We know this because he is already eternal and is eternally satisfied in himself. He doesn't need us or our praise to be satisfied. We need him and to praise him for US to be fully satisfied. But only a complete view of the true God can be eternally satisfying. Some aspects of God's character CANNOT be seen or understood by his creation unless it is in contrast with evil. God is a healer, but his people cannot see that if there is no injury nor sickness. God is justice, but we cannot see that if none deserve judgment. God is merciful, but we can't see that if we have not sinned such that we NEED mercy.
But ultimately this understanding hinges on one thing, God does NOT love every individual the same. God says "Jacob I loved but Esau I hated." In the book of Psalms it says many times over that God hates the wicked.
God does not love every individual person. He loves his people. All people, including his own, are sinners and have done genuinely evil things worthy of His wrath. But God the Father shows mercy to his own people through God the Son dying on our behalf. We owe God a life debt for the evils we have done. That debt can only be paid by us dying, OR by the person to whom we are indebted, forgiving the debt. However... Even if a debt is forgiven, it means the person who held the debt actually eats the cost. Jesus does that when he dies on our behalf. We owe him a life debt. He pays the life debt for us and thereby forgives those who stop trying to pay back the debt and acknowledge that it has been paid already. But if we deny that he's paid our debt then we are still responsible for paying our life debt to Him.
Prayers for everyone's eyes to be open to the word of God. 💕
Even the ones that were eaten by the insects he created?
This world is far away from being a divine design:
Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day.
Of course thats not because of human sin:
Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
GOD'S WORD.... Spoken/shared (only) by Humans for some reason....
@@ichsehsanders Seems there is no god to share his words on his own.
@@user-vm5yk2js6w possibly
When Stephen Fry stands before God, he wont be saying any thing, he will be awe struck, his tongue will be stuck to the roof of his mouth, he will be in great fear, and trembling. Who does he think he is ?
@@shirleybarrett605 the answer is pray for Stephen Fry.
A very small fry
@@paultribbett7765Stephen Fry is an honest thinker, whatever else he may be. I think there's a lot to appreciate here. Better this than the apathy I often feel, and which many live in. He's probably closer to the truth than either of us realize. Keep well :)
There is a reason pride is the worst sin. A sin that can lead to many others.
deep down fry knows these people he recoils at the sight off are just showing his own soul back to him.
Fry really said ¨to be an athiest isnt not believing in God, but simply rejecting him¨ wild
It's Gods sense of humor. Once in a while he gets you to actually say " God is great " without you even knowing it so maybe you'll catch on
Beauty all around him but no eyes to see
Frye clearly has atheist confused with anti-theist.
Makes sense if you don’t overthink it.
It isn't wild to an atheist., it's honest and brave
Why do so many people who are suffering find hope and happiness in God. There are so many videos of children with cancer or other serious diseases seem to always be so loving and kind and have hope in God rather than blaming Him for their situations. God brings hope and our suffering on this planet is temporary and we are made whole through Jesus.
As someone with a genetic illness I wrestled with God for awhile when I was diagnosed. Especially as I do believe he knit me together in my mother's womb as scripture says I had to grapple with the fact that God either intentionally gave me the disease or at the very least allowed it to exist. I can say however that in the long run it has drawn me closer to him rather than pushing me away. Eventually I was able to honestly say to him "I don't know why you allowed this, but I trust you anyway."
@@pcdeltalink036 Thank you for sharing your story. God has big plans for you and I bet He in His power uses this affliction as a way to reach and help people no one else can.
Yes just look at Joni Erickson Tada. She has become such a dear believer because of her suffering. It’s making her like Christ, probably quicker than most of us with less trials.
I hope you’re right 🖤
Amen
A poem by a woman missionary to Israel back exactly 100 years ago, 1924, Miss Hannah Hurnard, expressed the mystery of suffering like this:
“The cry of all distorted things:
Why hast thou made us thus?
To bear the anguish which life brings;
Why didst thou not love us?
So marred that God Himself must weep-
Fit only for the rubbish heap.
The cry of every breaking heart:
Why were we born for this?
Evil alone is made our part
And nothing of earth’s bliss.
Why didst thou give us human birth
If we may know no love on earth?
The cry of each despairing mind
Ascends before love’s throne:
Behold us, God! Or art thou blind?
Can we be blamed alone?
If thou be there, then answer us,
Why make us? Or why make us thus?
And love’s voice answers from a cross:
I bear it all with you;
I share with you in all your loss,
I will make all things new.
None suffer in their sin alone,
I made- I bear- and I atone.”
@@terrifictomm Beautifully written!
A god that designs suffering would be an evil god
@@reality1958 You missed the point then
@@THEGOSPELISFOREVERYBODY how so
Every philosophy and religion worth its salt has some teaching regarding the redemptive and soul purifying nature of suffering, because they all believe this world, this life, is not all there is.
I'll bet you've never read, "Man's Search For Meaning," have you? Atheists as a rule tend to be very shallow. It is a Classic and influential book which posits one of mankind's deepest needs is for our lives to have meaning and purpose. Something you new atheists gleefully assert is impossible. But even that arch-atheist Friedrich Nietzsche was self-aware enough to mourn the death of God.
Don't worry. There's no Heaven for you to fear entering. No God to meet whom you will judge unworthy of your gaze.
The funny thing is, if I'm wrong, I'll never know and if you're right you'll never know either.
But if you're wrong and the God of the Gospel exists, how will you be able to stand it? Living for eternity with that searing knowledge? I'm sure you'll be weeping and wailing and gnashing your teeth!
Suffering is horrible, but whenever I turn to Atheists for compassion, for caring, I'm met with jeering or indifference. Their love always helps me to turn back to Christ, because tjey intensify the suffering and I have found only the Lord God Jesus Christ really cares.
I don't mind atheism but a lot of atheists do mistake a lack of belief in something for enlightenment.
I'm sorry that you were treated that way. I personally have never been treated that way by an atheist, in fact, my atheist friends have been a great comfort to me when I was suffering a number of health issues.
@@bertrandruskin3406 You obviously have led a very sheltered life. Some of the most kind caring people l have met are atheists.
Then you don't know all atheists
@@theovanrossum8652 Then you don’t know all theists. Why do you worship a Murderous slave sanctioning god curious regarding your reasoning
Whether God exists or not, I honestly get a kick out of people who make statements like "If I were standing before God I would say How dare you! You evil monster! Yes send me to hell because I won't enter heaven on your terms." Please. The vast majority of these psuedo-intellectuals wouldn't even stand up to the guy who cuts them in line at the supermarket but we're supposed to believe that they'd be so brave in front of the creator of the universe. If God does exist and they found themselves in front of him, they'd be on their knees begging and pleading for forgiveness (as the rest of us should be).
I mean I probably would be too just as. many of us would if we were hostages and the guy had the gun in our face.
Ha have you ever read The Great Divorce by CS Lewis? Awesome awesome book and shows how maybe this could be.
@Unclenate1000 I never understood the whole "gun to the head" thing. That implies God is forcing you to do something against your will, but he doesn't. He gives you a choice and their consequences. Just like you can study for a test and pass or go out drinking with your friends and fail. The choice is yours and the consequences are what they are.
@@lanazugg-zugg8433 you will love me or else? God wants people to come to him freely? But you will go be tortured forever if you dont. That's not freedom. Is Fear Love? Surely not. Do I accept Jesus as my Lord and savior no but neither do Jews or Muslims. Yet they claim just as much closeness to God as you do. There is contradiction between them. That is a problem.
The atheist who makes that statement only says so because it's purely hypothetical. It is completely reasonable as an atheist to ask 'why' to god when believers ask 'why' on their deathbed.
1:53 GOD will then say “fair enough. I will respect your wishes and you can go live eternity without me around.”
To my mind the thing of Jesus is that he says, "Hey, you're going to go through some really hard times, that's just the nature of life, but I want to be there to help you through it," and I've been helped through so many times it's hard to believe. The possibility of eternal life is the icing on the cake.
@regsun7947
12 hours ago (edited)
To my mind the thing of Jesus is that he says, "Hey, you're going to go through some really hard times, that's just the nature of life, but I want to be there to help you through it," and I've been helped through so many times it's hard to believe. The possibility of eternal life is the icing on the cake.
n0w describe what the first 40 biIIi0n yrs are Iike
y0u and every 0ther human being cann0t c0nceive 0f eternity,
it is meaningIess c0ncept
y0u cann0t even imagine what the span 0f 50000 years feeIs iike
s0 wetting y0urseIf 0ver Iiving f0rever is as infantiIe as it s0unds
Except that surviving your death is extremely unlikely given what we know about the dependence of consciousness on the brain
@@i_am_nature22 You don't survive your death, you merely move from one spiritual location to the next after death.
@@i_am_nature22 We KNOW that? No.
@@johndooley8078An atheist wouldn’t, obviously.
I see this in an almost childlike, simple way really. God WANTS us to be good and love one another as He loves us, and not to do evil, yet He loves us enough to make that choice, and loving Him and loving each other are the two most important Commandments. Proving His love for us, He came to earth as flesh and blood as Jesus Christ and suffered the most horrendous death and humility for our sakes. We can be cleansed by Him and those who repent and follow our Saviour are promised inexplicable joy in Heaven in the next life. All the evil things in this fallen world will have passed and there will be no more suffering or pain, He will wipe every tear from our eyes, as the Scripture promises.
Now that's LOVE and I feel its beauty, peace and hope. Life has meaning because of it and every true follower of Christ has the wonderful anticipation of the glory to come. I wouldn't swap this for the world. Wow!
Praise be to Almighty God.❤
I used to think the same way as Fry, even as a practicing Catholic. But when you finally see the truth, it all makes sense. Praise the Lord. To hell with Satan.
amen
Amen
@@vibeworldmeta If you saw “truth,” by definition that means you have evidence. What evidence convinced you of the god that you claim exists, existence?
@@EverettVinzant The odds against life coming about by pure chance is a start
@@stevem.5177 There is so much wrong with what you just said. Let me start by asking, how did you determine what the odds of life occurring are? Did you use empirical probability, Bayesian probability, subjective probability, some other method? Second, how do you know it’s pure chance? I didn’t assert that, so who did, where did you get that from?
Jesus shed his blood even for this man, praise the Lord
I often notice that people who refuse to believe in God, don't do so because of suffering in the world, but because they don't want to accept responsibility for their contribution to it.
the word "refuse" makes it sound like they know very well that there is a god, but choose to not accept it. No, atheists do not believe in a god, because their epistemology requires reason and evidence in order to believe, not faith or some other way of "knowing". Using the word "refuse" tells me more about your credulity than it does about non-believers.
Kathleen. Yes. Because atheistic epistemology is grounded in nothing more than biological contingency, most of them are captives in Camus’ ontological absurdity with their rebellious adaptation of the Myth of Sisyphus.
How about showing some evidence of a god. Thousands of years and not a shred of evidence. Just fallacious arguments and ancient fairy tales.
@@tabularasa0606Now this is d problem... When u assume that supernatural things are physical things that can be shown and proven on a way physical things are shown and proven.... U want to know why u only have half evidence of Jesus Christ in ur hands. Its because you've not stepped into the supernatural dais to seek d other half of d answer.... I have hundred percent prove... I can show u half part of that prove which is d physical but it is hard for me to show u d supernatural prove because that is where things get personal and not repetitive... Miracles are not repetitive but their real, it's why we can't test them or prove them but we see throughout our human history that it's always a conversation.... Jesus is human and divine, he is d bridge between the physical and the supernatural.... If u don't look for evidence in both places and expect every evidence on a divine being to be physical, ur wasting ur time.... Faith is the scientific method we use to test the divine.... Not ur microscope and list of scientific books..... Its what we've been trying to tell people for a long time.... U can find God but not with the method ur used to..
You just invoked a moral ought in expecting folks to tell the truth.
Does the expectation that folks should tell the truth follow from your worldview?
Evidence? impossibility of the contrary is more than enough.
The Christian worldview is the only non-self contradictory, justified(good reasons to believe true), worldview with explanatory power for science and human experience such as truth in morality and laws of logic.
If you want to replace the Christian worldview with another one, does yours have access to
1.) a source of all knowledge by which you can know things for sure?
2.) Is it free of self-contradictions?
3.) Are there good reasons to believe it is true?
4.) Does it have explanatory power for science(induction), our universe, and human experience?
Tell us what your worldview is and we can compare.
Examples of worldviews are atheism, materialism, hinduism, buddhism, islam, paganism, etc.
Here is a quick example of one worldview comparison:
Atomism/materialism: Holds that all is made of atoms, which constantly change, and are extended in space (not universal/everywhere).
Matter has the exact *opposite* properties immaterials of universals (ie. laws of logic, truth in morality).
Darwinian evolution assumes life already existed (abiogenesis).
If we came from Darwinian evolution, we came from a process not aimed at truth.
No human tribe has another set of laws of logic; it's so basic, you have to use it to deny its existence.
(Laws of logic are: law of non-contradiction, identity, and excluded middle)
If atomism is true, it does not follow that we have freedom of choice, making moral choices unintelligible.
Induction: that the future will be like the past is the edifice in which science is based on.
If all came about from time and chance acting on matter, it does not follow that we should have an orderly universe which allows repeatable experiements for science.
It does follow from an orderly Christian God.
Christianity has a reason for it; materialism doesn't.
No one lives as if atomism is true, nor could it coherently(without self-contradiction), justifiably(good reason to believe) explain(explanatory power) our world and the nature of humans.
Usually folks will refuse to list their worldview and say "that's not evidence".
Continuing to call Christianity false when human experience and our universe do not follow from one's own worldview is to engage in irrationality.
Look at the proverbial ground that your feet are standing on.
Does it support what you believe?
If not, your beliefs are irrational.
Jesus is the way, the *truth*, and the life.
To expect folks to tell the truth is a Christian value.
Does 'thou shalt not lie' follow from yours?
If not, your objection to Christianity is irrational by your own standards.
Self refuted.
I really don't understand how people go through this evil world today without Jesus. It must drive them mad. Jesus is my strength and continuous Joy!
John Lennox is my love now. He is brilliant and rational. He doesn’t put himself above God by complaining about what God is not doing to make life perfect, rather he acknowledges if we put our egos on a leash and listen to Him we can learn to accept His Love and His help.
Well he's not really that brilliant and he's not rational because he believes in God which is irrational from the get go because there is no evidence to support it
Also he's engaged in typical apologetics basically making stuff up to excuse the fact that God, according to the Bible, is evil, vile, and cruel
He is a xenophobic, homophobic, trans phobic, misogynistic, genocidal, homicidal, sociopathic LUNATIC
Death is simply not a problem for God. He gives life. If a child does die from cancer, God raises them. For the Christian and innocent children, suffering will be short lived. For those who reject Christ, suffering will be eternal. And the first guy said that’s what he wants.
Why does a god allow the child to die from cancer in the first place?
@@thefuturist8864cancer is metabolic. And is preventable. God didn't cause cancer, mankind did, so take accountability for the things you do. If you feed your children shit, expect them to get sick. This is your doing, not God's. We have free will.
@@thefuturist8864The Bible tells us that sin entered through Adam yet it also tells us the redemption from that sin was through Jesus.
What many fail to see is that Jehovah God has already made the way out …
The Bible states that we are awaiting Gods Kingdom to be restored to earth and heal mankind.
It’s why Jesus taught to pray for Gods Kingdom to come to EARTH as it is in heaven as what is known as the Lord’s Prayer.
So when Gods Kingdom is restored to earth all sickness / corruption/ wickedness /poverty and even death will be done away with…
The Bible - The Good news that Jesus preached is beautiful!
Matt 5:5 Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
Psalm 37:11
11 But the meek will possess the earth,
And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
The Bible teaches that those who have died will be resurrected back to earth, families reunited.
It’s such a wonderful hope and it shows that God cares and has the solution- which has already been set in motion
"For the Christian and innocent children, suffering will be short lived." Where did you get that? Jesus was asked point-blank what does it take to get into heaven, and he said you have to believe in Him.
Children are born with no beliefs, i.e. atheist, so by Jesus own explanation, children go to Hell when they die.
I know, I know, your preacher told the made-up garbage about the innocent in Christ, and about you only go to hell if you REJECT God, but that's not Biblical.
Jesus said ONLY those who believe in him go to heaven. He made no exceptions for children.
Where in the Bible does it does it support your idea that children go to heaven? What is the age range? Why do people waste their kids' time sending them through Sunday school and church if they've already got a free pass? And...here's the scary part:
If ALL dead children go to heaven, and if ALL humans WILL suffer here on earth, then...wouldn't the most loving, merciful thing be to end all children and send them straight to your god's loving arms? If not, why not?
@thefuturist8864 If we're assuming the christian god, then he didn't WANT a world with sickness in the first place. When he made the world, he said "it is good", which meant everything served a purpose for producing life. Death didn't enter into the world until after we decided we wanted to have things our way, and he's not going to give us his perfect will when we refuse it. The fact that he would plan for us to have salvation knowing this, so that we could still be with him is astonishing.
To the creator of these videos, PLEASE keep doing what you’re doing. It’s very pleasant to hear intelligent/intellectual arguments that support the existence of God. Keep it up. These videos are life-changing.
Of all the people who have conclusively thrown away any right to be listened to, it's Stephen Fry. He once told people who had been abused as children that they should just suck it up and not make a fuss.
Like how Yahweh does nothing 😊
@LeonardoPisano-sn2lp why should he. You don't believe in him so why should he come to the rescue?? He doesn't owe you anything rather YOU owe him EVERYTHING.
@@LeonardoPisano-sn2lp yes, that's a... comeback. Stephen Fry still sucks balls no matter what Yahweh does
@@ogrebirthh That is being a cuck. If your god is all powerful then it is no better than a devil and does OWE us all everything. You need to stop wanting to be a slave.
"The Son of Man suffered, not so man might avoid suffering; but so that our suffering might be like His."
" Atheism is a strange thing.
Even the Devils never fell into that vice "
Charles Spurgeon.
Good quote, Nevertheless atheïst is inspirerend by the adversary aka Satan
Yes Stephen is so full of vice to not be ok with children dying of bone cancer
"I'm using a quote because it makes for a good argument, when in fact, it does not, but at least I don't have to think and come up with one myself" - Me.
God + devil = zero = good + evil.
maybe cuz that alleged being got to actually know/see/interact with god like a real person... unlike any of us lol
Yes, so many know from real experience, to cast your cares upon Him, the one who tells you that He dies for you on the Cross, and He will reveal, healing your heart and mind, the unbelievable, wonderful and mysterious Truth of this to you through your humble relationship with Him.
One of my favorite quotes “it is not the will of God, but rather the transgression of the will of God, that creates all the evils that fall upon man.”
We are here to bring glory to God.
We all fail miserably so we were given Jesus Christ who we must make our Saviour.
Amen. To Him be all glory, honor, and power forever and ever. Amen.
You know I often wonder what Jesus would have been thinking in the time leading up to being nailed to the cross. I think the way I would if I knew that was happening, a thinking about the fear I’d be feeling, thinking about what comes next, and then I start to think he knew these answers. Jesus knew exactly where he was going, and that he would be going straight to heaven for a short time to then come back to his body here on earth. Then it makes me think the pain would be scary, but he knew how worth it this sacrifice would be. Thank you Jesus, iam always looking for you in every aspect of life, and pray to develop an even stronger relationship with you.
I myself have had my share of sorrows. To enumerate: Poor health, home burned to the ground losing everything, unhappy wife, handicapped children, stressful job, recent injuries in an auto accident, loss of closest friends and loneliness feeling that God is not there (similar to the writer of Psalm 88) Despite all that I realize that we live in an imperfect world and that we wrestle against evil spiritual forces that hates God and therefore hates us because we are made in his image and loves us. But God provided one thing that keeps me going. HOPE He came to this planet to make things right and died for us and promised to restore things the way they should be. That He will wipe away every tear... He said that in this world we would have trouble... but He has overcome the world
If you were created in his image as you claim, why are you not invisible?
@@Deef3lony i can't see him. only his profile pic. can you see him? are you God, omniscient? Cool!
@@Deef3lony I hope you will someday understand
@@ungmd21 Lol there’s nothing to understand this is insanity at best
@@badusername321 oh yes I can be your god 🤷🏾♂️. I am responding
1:43 "I wouldn't want to" - this is the sad part. People will rather go to hell than to admit they were wrong.
Ego is quite a thing. Seems it's difficult for some to get past.
@@moralityisnotsubjective5
Pride is the source and engine of ego.
And it originates with Satan.
See The Fall of Lucifer in Isaiah 14 12 -15
12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.
@@tonymercer7759 There is a reason it's considered the worst sin.
I wouldn't want to go to hell but I certainly don't trust an evil God. Not going to compromise on my morals which is to do no harm. God fails 100% here so I'm out.
@@arc001 It seems to me you don't really understand Him and that is going to put you in danger. Shame, but that's your choice. I do hope you come to a better understanding before it's too late.
God exists he’s given us free will. People seem to want god to fix all the bad and so called evil. What they seem to do is … hey god cure this fix that, dont butt into my life until I tell you to. It takes faith in a loving god he is everywhere. I have had several traumatic events in my life, also deaths of my immediate family. Not once did say to god hey god fix this. People want the kingdom but they don’t want god in it. God bless everyone here. Much love ❤
Thumbs up for understanding free will, most Christians do not understand that. If we didn't have freewill, then the Jews would have never do the things God didn't want them to do.
What the fuck has eye-eating worms, earthquakes, rabies, smallpox and periodic droughts, causing massive famines, got to do with free will?
@@ulfingvar1 So you see sickness and natural disasters as evidence of God, but you presume to judge him? You are a wicked man and you are of this world. Give glory to the one with power over the plagues you cite, or they shall increase a thousand-fold. This decade will see billions die, repent because the kingdom will be here before 10 years elapses.
Free will is a lie of monotheism. Free will has been discussed in the field of philosophy for thousands of years without an answer. Do you think those monotheistic have the answer?
Buddha has tell us the truth and your Jesus Christ also learn from buddha.
I don't know this god is real or fake but I'm very sure that this god has the emotional same as the human. It can be found in the bible.
@@ulfingvar1 More pertinently to this thread, what the heck do eye-eating worms, earthquakes, rabies, smallpox, periodic droughts, and massive famines have to do with this guy's testimony?
God would rightly say back "You have blessings of wealth, intelligence and social conscience, what did you do with them to help these problems?" That is the evil, blaming God for your own inaction. God showed us the way through Jesus Christ that you have to put yourself on the line no matter the cost if you want the world to be better.
Good answer
Thank you. Amen.
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J.C. was illiterate enaugh said
Good answer.
If there is an infinitely perfect God, then He deserves to be praised for all that He is. Some of the greatest words we know are 'overcome' and 'mercy' and they are understood best in contrast. Can purity be understood if you don't understand impurity? Can the compassion of God be understood and praised if there were no reason for compassion? And can the love of people be measured if they are never in a position to suffer and trust despite pain and suffering?
The sorrows in this world exist to encourage us to help others to try and make things better. When things are easy we become weak and selfish and lacking empathy. We are meant to follow the example of Christ and seek to heal others and lift each other up in the face of such troubles.
Based on your premise then God allows the physical abuse of children, famine, and wars. And for the world today, whom should we help, the Russians or the Ukrainians in that war?
@@XJarhead360 the common people forgotten by the great powers whose war has left them in dire straights. The orphan and the widow. Russia or Ukraine is a trick question. They are nations and we owe no allegiance to the nations of this world. Why should we align with the murderer in charge of Russia? Or why should we align with the corrupt in charge of Ukraine who took millions in relief funds from the world and then fled while forcing the common man to stay and fight without supplies? There is evil on both sides and innocent on both sides.
I do not believe it to be coincidence that the answer to "why do bad things happen" is explained in the first book, on the first pages of the Bible (Genesis Chapter 3). We were meant to walk with God in paradise and live our happily ever after out in the garden. We were given the free will to choose sin, to choose to disobey the Almighty God--and we took it.
Do you think that actually happened? Do you think the story of Adam and Eve is historical?
Do you believe in evolution?
@@thelejund7944 So worms burrow into the eyes of children today because someone chose to eat an apple thousands of years ago. And you worship the god that set that rule up?
Adam had no idea what evil was! What free will he really had? Doesn't free will need knowledge of the consequences, and realising the difference between good and evil?
@@Agade-i1x awww wah wah ! 😢 Crybaby "God gave us a choice and I don't like it" ahh comment 🤣 if he made us all robots he would not be a loving god by giving us a choice God is allowing us to follow him or ourselves. And we followed ourselves. But you forget he sent Jesus Christ to die for us. Nice biased 😂
Evil is the absence of GOD.
How we respond to suffering, especially when the innocent (like children) have no wrongdoing is determined by the genuineness of our faith. The faithful do not shake their fists at God or question His goodness. More importantly, it’s in times of despair and sorrow that we reach out to Him, and, if we are His children, we always find Him there waiting to comfort and uphold us through it all.
"Evil is the absence of GOD."
Nope. You just made that up to justify your opinion. When you need to LIE to spread your beliefs, maybe you should examine your beliefs.
EVIL
1a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED
an evil impulse
1b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct
a person of evil reputation
2a archaic : INFERIOR
2b : causing discomfort or repulsion : OFFENSIVE
an evil odor
2c : DISAGREEABLE
woke late and in an evil temper
3a : causing harm : PERNICIOUS
the evil institution of slavery
3b : marked by misfortune : UNLUCKY
So why dont the faithful shake their fists at God for giving children cancer? Maybe they should given that he supposedly listens and responds to the fauthful.
Absolutely Leon.
@@davegaskell7680it is obviously their God's plan that those kids should have cancer. Best to not question it because they don't have an answer either.
If evil is the absence of God, given that God's ways are always pain, suffering, torture, agony, madness and death... I'd go for Satan the Rebel's way.
Rather than recoil from his audacity, I feel a sad, but tender mercy for him. I understand. I also thought I would accuse God to His face for what He allowed me to endure.
The day came and you do NOT stand. You feel like a worm. You make no effort to approach, but just want to melt into the ground. Literally, a worm..and you want Him to turn away from you. In His presence, you realize who you dated to criticize. No, if there is an eek that emits from you, it is in all humility and of brokenness. And then, He actually answers.
It turns out all those prayers by naiive Losers (those were my words) were not to air at all. One day, Fry will see for himself. May God tenderly reach him before then.
Steven Fry imagines he would stand before the God who gave him life and say, "how dare you!?" It is indeed sad.
He has brought so much joy into the world through his acting. How many kids with cancer have found relief from their pain through his comedy?
Yet it will all be lost, for Steven, when he is in hell for his rebellion.
@@bbgun061 if only God didn't put that tumors in those children...
@@haitaelpastor976 God doesn't put tumors in children...
@@haitaelpastor976 there's no tumors in heaven though?
This is a *QUESTION FOR EVERYONE*
If *you tell your child to do good* but he or she *gets swindled by someone else* to do the opposite, which then *makes his or her life and the lives of his or her children miserable,* In your opinion, *whose fault is it?* Is it your fault? Your child's fault? Or is it the swindler's fault? In my opinion, it is your child's and the swindler's fault.
*Your grandchildren didn't do anything,* and yet their lives are being impacted. *Is it your fault when all you do is tell your child to do good things and not bad things?*
I remember my friend group asked me sth similar when they found out I’m a born again Christian. It went along the line of “If your God is so great then why are there suffering in the world?”
So I asked them “Why do you think it exists and what have you done about it?”
I know it’s not a good response but my faith was still new at the time.
I think it’s a great response. I think I’ll use that if someone ever asks me that.
A true Christian answers that question with ease.
Amen brother! God is good, even through suffering. God didn't have to enter our suffering, but for love in this very necessary world of pain He choose to feel our pain and spill his blood for us, to redeem us into eternal bliss to come, and to know God even now. This is Life to know Him. Jesus is our rest.
Hmmm perhaps get out off the computer and go and lead as a ROLE MODEL to help others instead of telling us all how righteous you are???
God doesn't have to help us in suffering, but then he is not all-good?
@@emetahava were you directing your comment at what I said above? If so, how did you get anything from me that I claimed to be righteous. I am the chief of sinners! Only by the grace of God and blood of Jesus do I stand.
Also if you did direct this at my comment, how do you know me and what I do and how I live my life? Seems like a lot of unfounded presumptions.
@@goranmilic442 There is no one who does good, no not one. I deserve death not redemption . I deserve eternal suffering for all my evil. .,..but God...He is so good that He would rescue a sinner such as I.
@@dcshel So God is very good, but not perfectly good?
The arrogance, gall and utter disrespect of man to blaspheme and curse his Creator. God owes us nothing but we owe Him our lives and much more. Every experience we get to live good or bad is testament to His infinite wisdom and Will. These are not the first nor are they the last to challenge God and it always ends the same way, God prevails. I hope the find salvation in the Lord Jesus while they still here.
God owes us EVERYTHING!!! He created us without asking consent, and created a grotesque context for us, in which we risk eternal torture if we do not live up to certain expectations. The arrogance, gall and disrespect of God!!!
@ulfingvar1 I pray that you find salvation and that the bitterness, resentment, and misdirected anger towards God be expunged in Jesus' name. 🙏🏾
@@ulfingvar1 It's a bit hypocritical to say "I was created without asking my consent and the world I live in is horribly awful, and if I'm not a good person I'll be punished" while still choosing to be alive. Obviously there is something of value in living yet you are condemning having been given life while expressing entitlement to an easy one. God may or may not be arrogant, full of gall and disrespect but, if you are product of God the fruit didn't fall from the tree, it seems.
The question is who is the Creator: The Christian God, the Muslim Allah or the Jewish God? So it all goes back to one's FAITH! and what you want to believe. No one is right or wrong.
@@XJarhead360 The God of Abraham is one and the same as the God christians follow. Allah, however, has severe historical and thematic discrepancies with the God described in the Torah and Bible.
Fry does not know enough. When you know Jesus, you understand why things are as they are.
How stupid your comment is. The bible is pure bullshit that belongs on the flaming trash heap of history.
Amen! And Fry, *_certain_* of his own beautiful logic, cannot see beyond the confines of that certainty. This is why so often amongst those with the highest of IQs, their intelligence betrays them, creating a very LOW Effective Intelligence. Maximized Inherent Intelligence is only possible with Humility.
😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
Why? To teach his favorite angel a lesson using us as pawns? No. If there is a God, it is definitely not the jealous and vengeful God of Abraham. Those are human traits. An all powerful God would have no need for such petty descriptions of himself. He wouldn't need to kill the first born children of slave girls to "teach" their owner a lesson. Why would a god punish poor slave girls and their babies. It makes no sense. God is greater than that. If anything you're being tested to see if you will go along with such evils, simply to save yourself. To believe that people in other countries with other religions, who have a relationship with God in their own way, will burn in a fiery hell forever simply for not doing what you yourself would not.... convert to someone else's religion....is pure evil. There is no explanation as to why people would be so callous that they would believe such evil things, and be ok with them, other than their minds are warped.
Not immediately you do not!! Life is a PROCESS.
Great, share! Why are there insects that eat children's eyeballs?
For some reason I always loved Stephen Fry and looked at him like an ideal friend. I totally understand his pov. I will pray for him because he's such a lovely person, but so misled. I was just like him once, then God touched my life and there was no going back.
"As now we see through a glass but darkly, when we see him face to face then shall we know."
Steven Fry’s statements express the classic atheist paradox: ”There is no God, and I hate Him.”
Yes there’s a lot of supposedly intelligent people who don’t have common sense. Blinded by emotion.
@@stevenjohnson6232 no, the atheist just cannot comprehend or cannot accept the idea that an all-powerful God is also all-loving given the condition and circumstances of this world.
An atheist therefore is not against the idea that God can exist. It is just the God that is all-loving and all-powerful which the atheist finds an absurd proposition.
And I personally sympathise with the atheist position.
The atheist should not believe in the Creator irrespective of the character of God, as seen in the Bible vs the state of the world. That is an emotional argument and not considering that God did not create tge world in its current state and nor will it always be. Mr Fry believes in a bug that was created with its only habitation is the eye of a child. But Mr Fry is incorrect on a couple of point. The animals natural habitation is not in any human and nor did God create a world of death and suffering.@@aleykuttygeorgemutholil6888
What he hates is the god you put forth....and rightly so. But there is nothing that tells us you know god at all...is there?
@@aleykuttygeorgemutholil6888I don’t. I think atheist are the most apathetic of peoples. They moan about everything yet do nothing.if they believe that this life is all there ever is… where are the Revolution?
Why do they allow a single child to be taken as a child soldier? Why do they allow wars to happen? Why do they vote for corrupt systems to rule over them? Etc etc etc
Freedom from suffering is the goal of Buddhism, but not Chistianity. To embrace suffering in the pursuit of Love, Divine Love, is the Christian goal. Suffering is an assistant on the search for God. We suffer for Love!
This is why your cult is sickening and horrific. You celebrate the suffering of chikdren
You can't appreciate love, kindness, or gentleness until you've experienced hatred, sorrow, and grief. You need a ying and yang.
Life can be tragic. The reality is that every single one of us will die. There is no escaping it.
_"The reality is that every single one of us will die. There is no escaping it."_
Not true. Read the Bible and you'll understand.
I don’t believe that. Why escape? You have a Way to be with.
@@quantitativediseasing9988 He's not wrong, with the exception of Elijah and allegedly Enoch, everyone on earth has died. Difference is, when one of Jesus' dies, he conquers their death.
there was a part in the movie "Walden" where the title character is praying and asks why there is so much evil, and he says something along the lines of, God I know this happens because of their freewill, but why does freewill have to be so free? That line made me think, and I came to two conclusions. 1) Freewill is the only way to show God we love him. If we follow Christ despite all the lusts of the world, and the ability to choose, then Christ is the priority for us, because of our love for him. 2) This shows how perfect and powerful God's love for us is. Despite whatever we choose, no matter how evil, if we come to know Christ as our Savior and Lord and repent of our sins. The sins are forgiven, and we can be with God in heaven. No matter what you have done, God loves you, that is a level of love and forgiveness we can never possess, especially without Christ.
Free will is the only way to get an uncorrupted God. We CHOOSE to do good, in spite of how easy we can do evil. Eventually that leads us to our inner divinity to reveal itself. And I don't think our sins are ever forgiven - no one but yourself can truly forgive your self. Our sins are paid for. The Hindus call it Karma. That's my take on it
He can’t be maximally powerful and allow evil tho, without being evil.
Then why don't all evil people get the karma they deserve. In fact a lot of the most evil people have a good life. Karma doesn't work@@cango5679
@@DM-dk7js Rebelling against God and being disobedient to His Will is basically what evil is. If God did not give us a choice to obey or disobey Him then we would not truly have that freedom. God is not evil because we freely chose to disobey Him
Free will doesn't exist, thats why as a christian you should believe in universalism theory which a lot of early church fathers believed in
How can one learn to be generous if there's nobody who needs? How can one learn to be forgiving if there is no one to forgive? I would say this world is perfect for those who need to learn.
I like your comment that "this world is perfect for those who need to learn". Can you clarify a little more? I find this idea as very thought-provoking.
Respectfully...
@@johnbrzykcy3076
I look at humans like computers with nothing but an operating system and with no apps installed at all... We were made a blank slate, we choose our apps and become who and what we choose. This requires free will. (Place a man in a room with no windows and command him not to open the window how is he to disobey? Without choice there is no free will.) If the world was perfect ( aka no pain or suffering or evil at all) and we were born a blank slate there would be no need or even incentive to learn anything. God simply made a world that would produce what we needed.
I think someone who has experienced evil can more fully grasp and appreciate the good.
@@GSpotter63 Your comments are excellent. Very interesting ideas.
I've had cancer twice and I do have some long- lasting side effects.
Although sometimes I ask God why, I don't blame God. But I wonder what I'm learning from my experience?
Anyhow, thanks again for your views. Do you watch this channel often?
... Peace
@@johnbrzykcy3076 i'm sorry to hear that but there was no cancer in heaven.
This is a *QUESTION FOR EVERYONE*
If *you tell your child to do good* but he or she *gets swindled by someone else* to do the opposite, which then *makes his or her life and the lives of his or her children miserable,* In your opinion, *whose fault is it?* Is it your fault? Your child's fault? Or is it the swindler's fault? In my opinion, it is your child's and the swindler's fault.
*Your grandchildren didn't do anything,* and yet their lives are being impacted. *Is it your fault when all you do is tell your child to do good things and not bad things?*
People who say that God is evil should ask themself why they sin. If they say that they don't sin then they cannot say that God is evil. If they know they sin, then they need to stop blaming God for the evil choices they make.
@kellowattentertainment absolutely poignant n spot on comment.
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@@kellowattentertainment yes he is evil and he is not your god. He is minor god from some pantheon of middle eastern ancient nation. So clearly he is made up and pagan.
I don't give children cancer. God gives children cancer. That's evil. The status of me being sinful or not says nothing about God being sinful or not. In short, nothing you've said here makes sense.
@@lies_worth_believing From a biological perspective. For example, If we things that causes cancer cells to develop in our bodies, whichever cancer it is, doesn't matter. That same gene is what we pass to our children so when they are born, they have the same cancerous cells. The child's body is too young to handle those cells, hence the cancer affects them more than it would us who are adults. Some adults may not even feel the effects of cancer, but our children do because they have weaker immune systems. That however is not God giving children cancer. That's purely a result of our choice be we can always choose to eat better.
im more blaming him for the Parasites that Eat childrens eyeballs in africa. Or the small innocent child given terminal cancer.
No sane person can look at these things and think they are connected to human sin.
Having a conversation with my secular friends about God. Every time they questioned "why do bad things happen, whye grape and murder?" My explanation is that we live in a fallen and dying world. And one of my friend says "Oh, you're just always gonna go back to that!" Well, yes, because it's the reason why their are horrible things in this world. Adam and Eve sinned and introduced sin to the world. Everything went into chaos. Animals started eating each other, insects that burrow into living tissue. Grape, murder and all evil things happen because of the evil in MENS' hearts, there is no evil in God. God hates sin, how can He hate Himself? The way I understand it, evil comes from man and blaming it on God is a miserable excuse.
@joshuatrujillo9621 Asking why bad things happen if there's a God is just as stupid as asking why good things happen if there's no God.
Ok sure, we all suffer because our ancestors thousands of years ago made the mistake of being tempted by the greatest and most skilled deceiver ever, literally the lord of lies. Because of something completely out of our own hands we have to suffer, I can get behind that.
I understand the idea of mankind choosing to do evil things, but the thing that gets me is the bad things that are entirely out of human control. Why should a 4 year old girl die screaming in pain and terrified of an incurable disease? I genuinely can't wrap my head around it.
@@kylesparks1826 because that's the curse of sin. Sin brought death to the world. Evil is in ALL of our hearts BECAUSE of the curse of Adam. It's not just our "ancestors." Of course, a child, or anyone, who has to go through that kind of pain is upsetting, and it doesn't seem right. That's because it's not right. Death wasn't in God's plan for us. But it's the reality we live in now. The pain that a child feels is NOTHING to the comfort and absolute GLORY of Jesus when they meet Him. A child may feel pain for a while, but when God calls them home, they are in paradise for eternity. I guarantee you that those who are with God don't remember this life or the pain therein. All I know is that no matter what pain or agony I feel on this earth, it will NEVER compare to the wonders of Heaven.
@@kylesparks1826 Your mother should have swallowed you.
@@joshuatrujillo9621 Sure, but they still felt the pain for a while. If god had a plan for them to come into heaven so young, why not have them go painless and softly?
Also, why not let an atheist come into heaven? an atheist that has done everything right as a far as being a good person. Is entirely selfless and caring and contributes greatly to society, and never does wrong onto others. The only thing they have done wrong, is not believe in something that their is no proof of.
I grantee you, they will start believing real quick when they get there. I can't imagine someone like that existing in agony for all eternity just because they weren't convinced of something. Just to be clear I'm not trying to be hateful or convert people, I just enjoy civil conversations.
Thank you for sharing this. I admit, I struggle sometimes thinking of the evil perpetrated against children. Or wonder why an innocent child must suffer with cancer. I understand that some things aren't for me to understand, but I do find myself getting angry about it. I also want to add that we need to remember that a lot, if not most human suffering is caused by our own doing ie cancer can be caused by our lack of nutrition, the chemicals we ingest etc. We can only understand with our limited minds. I want to be a better person and these discussions help me a lot.
Keep asking Jesus Christ into your life. He promises He will never leave you nor forsake you. You won't know until you invite Him, the Prince of Peace, into your heart. He is the only Way through this life and His death on the cross offers us another chance at a beautiful life when He returns. "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world’s rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12
This is a *QUESTION FOR EVERYONE*
If *you tell your child to do good* but he or she *gets swindled by someone else* to do the opposite, which then *makes his or her life and the lives of his or her children miserable,* In your opinion, *whose fault is it?* Is it your fault? Your child's fault? Or is it the swindler's fault? In my opinion, it is your child's and the swindler's fault.
*Your grandchildren didn't do anything,* and yet their lives are being impacted. *Is it your fault when all you do is tell your child to do good things and not bad things?*
This world is far away from being a divine design:
Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day.
Of course thats not because of human sin:
Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
This is a *ANOTHER QUESTION FOR EVERYONE*
Do you think your good deeds will bring you to heaven? *It's never worked like that.*
If there is a doctor and he saves a lot of lives, *will he not be punished if he kills 1 man?*
If even a judge on earth won't let you go unpunished for your crime, *why would God, who is Holy and Just, let you go unpunished?*
That's why God needs to come down to earth. Jesus suffered and died on the cross for the sins of the world.
*The Ten Commandments are called moral law; you and I broke the law; Jesus paid the fine.*
By doing that, *He can show His love for us while still upholding justice.*
@@greyc8589 Two of the largest determining factors for cancer are genetic predisposition and infections. This fact is brought to us by science not religion. Both are things humans don’t have direct control over. You mention children getting cancer. Most children that have cancer haven’t lived long enough for damage to occur to them because of lack of nutrition or environmental exposure. So how does claiming a god exists excuse this?
I used to be an atheist but at 19 I had a dream about future events that came true a year later. I was shocked into a ten year search for the truth. The question of evil led me to atheism. In 1986 during the horrific famine in Africa, Band Aid played on Wembley and I was a new mom asking a God I did not know, WHY? As I stared into the blue sky on a day in juni I saw hundreds of tiny " shooting stars" slowely moving up towards the heaven. I was shocked and had to look twice. But standing there I knew the dead children was going to heaven, to God. A peace filled my heart and to this day, 38 years later, I stil have that comforting peace. Justice will be served.
Even if everything happened the way you said it, and it was provably NOT just mental illness, then the most you could say with confidence is you're psychic. How did you connect "psychic" to "therefore God"?
@@saintmalaclypse3217the desire to believe. Comforting beliefs make more sense to the average-minded than realistic interpretations.
This is called confirmation bias.
If you were able to see them, they were not tiny.
The big bang and evolution fairy tales led me to atheism. It took me 9 years to break free from those spells, and then another 7 to become Christian.
Even Jesus Christ Himself encountered evil and suffering in His surroundings. He healed many people.
And Jesus suffered in ways that are unimaginable to us.
I'm not trying to belittle the questioning by various atheists because i don't know it all. I still want to trust God the Father amd Jesus the Son.
God bless everyone. Respectfully...
You seriously claim that Jesus suffered worse than cancer victims or those burnt alive at the stake, or in the ovens of Bergen-Belsen? You are truly a blind and evil man!
Suffering is so difficult it hurts so much to lose our loved ones or to watch evil play out. . I was an agnostic for 40 something years and I remember losing my best friend my Dad when I was 15 years old. I lived with anger for so long. I started asking deep questions. Stephan reminded me of that pain in that angry confused answer he gave. The Lord recused me and I don’t understand it all but I know I’m loved and I also see love in the world not just suffering!
Blaming God for the horrible evil in the world is to completely dismiss the reality of free will. The only way to have true love is for there to be choice. And choice only exists when evil is an option.
What the fuck has eye-eating worms, earthquakes, rabies, smallpox and periodic droughts, causing massive famines, got to do with free will? And, by the way, you just admitted that God created/allowed evil into his own creation, because otherwise there could be no free will. You say that God was SEVERELY limited in his creative options. Hardly the sign of an omnipotent deity, quite the contrary.
@@ulfingvar1 You may find Christian theories and theology flawed, according to your reasoning, but rest assured, the LORD of whom we speak is flawless, without limit, entirely omnipotent, and quite beyond our present limited understanding.
@@lilianmcguigan9240
Bunch of claims then you'll go on to explain your god's reasoning.....though you can't understand it 🙄
@@ulfingvar1 Wow, you just hit these people below the belt. BTW, that Lisbon quake in the 1600s (I don't know the exact date) that destroyed much of the city began to question the citizens' faith. Because after all the city's population was very devout. And God hasn't destroyed "Sin City," Las Vegas, Nevada, USA.
@@ulfingvar1 Will Is the Capability To Do Good, As God Created you to do.
Freedom Is Responsibility.
Free Will Is The Responsibility To Do Good.
Its always so funny to me how most Atheists main issue is "Why is there evi?l" but for me that is a main reason why I came to God. I don't know, for me it never made me doubt aGod, it made me realize there was one, and I realized Christ was truly The Word in Flesh. Guess it does sound paradoxical if you know nothing about The Bible or theology but when you understand, it makes so much sense.
They’ll ask why is their evil, but like the guy says they’ll also say this is just how the world works. Comfort from the world is meaningless and hopeless. True comfort is truly found in Christ.
How hard is it to understand God did create that perfect world. We poisoned it with sin.
The problem is there is no proof of that. And technically both you and i were born in World alredy poisoned with sin. Don't force whole Humanity to own to that.
no, he self-evidently didn't lol. especially when that world is rigged to just completely fall apart, punishing everyone just because one person did something wrong in an obviously mythical/allegorical story forever ago
@@dark-xh7fs Neither I nor he force humanity to own it. It is a simple truth that humanity inherited Adam's rebellion, and does own it. (Romans 5).
The law was not sent to condemn humanity, but to show us how wicked we are, to show us we may not be saved by our own effort. Only through trust in the Lord may our existential problem be solved.
People say God is evil for not dealing with the so called "injustices" in the world, but they forget that, if God were to come and deal with every injustice...the real question you need to answer is "why shouldn't he come deal with you as well?"
Yep. That’s what the flood of Noah was lol
It's why I really dislike ardent atheists. They don't want to live by the "rules" but at the same time they want to live in neighbourhoods where everyone else does so they don't get mugged, abused and murdered. The big question is why would you *not* the want there to be a god? Perhaps because you know that you do things that are wrong and don't want to be judged for it? We are all human, we are inherently flawed. That is okay. If one is repentant, God can forgive us in my view.
@@musicrocks0138 The flood of Noah was to get rid of the nephelim giants.
If I am to be dealt with, then it will be in the best, most righteous way. Come soon, Lord. All creation cries for your swift return.
Yes, and when God actually steps in and does something about all this evil, it gets called a genocide and God gets called evil. Like come on. They cannot have it both ways. Should God let the nations keep sacrificing children by burning them on a golden statue Moleck? Should he let the entire Roman Empire stab however many hundreds of thousands and never do anything about it? God has stepped in multiple times before. So sad they dont think so.
Many people ask, "Where was God when i needed Him." Or,
"Where was God when my loved one died."
And God replies, "In the same place I was when My Son died."
Christ shared in our suffering, understands our pain. Yet we are sinners and He never sinned. He did good for others everywhere He went. We have no right to stand in judgement of God.
Indeed!
2 Peter 3
"Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
*But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare*
Hmmm perhaps get out off the computer and go and lead as a ROLE MODEL to help others instead of telling us all how righteous you are???
And God replies, "In the same place I was when My Son died."
So...God was everywhere, as he always is, and that still doesn't answer where he was when we needed him.
He says point blank that whatever we ask in his name, we WILL receive. Yet, we still have suffering. That means NO Christian has ever prayed for an end to mankind's suffering, OR God lied, OR the Bible is fiction. Which is it?
So what is your explanation of why god allows children to have cancer, or the worm that burrows through a child's eyes?
@@saintmalaclypse3217 You ignore the caveat "ask in his name" in order to express your disbelief by mockery and impugning the Faith of all believers. You understand what that means. Peter described your position perfectly when he wrote 2 Pet 3:3.
The idea that people want God to be what they want is the problem. In the Bible, God is actually shown to be the answer for evil, not the God they want. God does not take away the problems of this physical world like animals, insects and human suffering. He provides the answers to the spiritual world and like Dr. Lennox said, hope for the future. In addition, through Christ God has paid for our sins and gives us new life and complete forgiveness for all our sin if we trust, believe and love him. Excellent video!
Actually the Bible demonstrates that evil exists because of God. God created evil
All of the problems that you say are the fault of humans is actually the fault of God
You guys want to excuse him for reasons that surpass understanding and pretend that he's at the good guy when he is, demonstrably, the bad guy
@@keithziegler8881 Actually mankind started evil, Adam and Eve disobeyed God. However God showed mercy on them and gave them life even though they would have to struggle with the ramifications of sin. God showed mercy on mankind by revealing himself to Abram and leading him to start a people that God would bless and help through this sinful world. Then God demonstrates his love for all mankind by sending Christ to pay the penalty of sin for mankind. By trusting and relying on Christ's atonement for your sins and turning to him as your Lord, you as well as anyone can be forgiven and given new life and grated heaven. God has done something about the sin problem that is the reason for evil.
@@keithziegler8881 Your response to the idea of evil and God shows that you have a very limited knowledge of the Bible. I am not trying to offend you at all. Perhaps starting with the book of Genesis with an open mind would help. In addition, looking into the numerous times that God rescued people, including the New Testament Gospels like John. It took me a while to understand faith and God and the Bible. I was resistant for many years because I didn't understand God's perspective. Simply ask the Lord to show you and he will friend. The Lord wants to be your friend and savior and show you his ways.
@@paulgoodner2687
Okay, let's go over this because there is SO much to unpack here
1) first of all we need to deal with the elephant in the room that is the fact that Adam and Eve is a myth because human beings are any of all species just like every other living thing on this planet. The overwhelming biological genetic and anthropological evidence makes that literally undeniable fact. I know it's humbling to just be like every other living thing and not be special and being created by a all powerful God, but we have to deal with that as the reality that it is
Having said that let's move on
2) Adam and Eve did not start evil with their, "disobedience". If you remember Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil. Therefore they could not know that disobeying God was evil therefore they are blameless. It's no different than someone who is temporarily insane but may commit a violent crime. If they are unaware of their actions and unaware that their actions are wrong they cannot be held accountable. That is the exact same for Adam and Eve.
3) God did not show mercy because it is God's fault that it happened in the first place. By your own Bible's declaration God is all-knowing and therefore he knew ahead of time that Adam and Eve were going to eat from the tree even after he told her not to. He also knew that they had no knowledge that what they were doing was evil therefore blaming them for it and then saying you're going to offer them, "mercy" was not an act of mercy in any way shape or form explaining the innocent for his screw ups and his failures. God used Adam and Eve as a scapegoat and nothing more
4) God did not reveal himself to Abraham. You don't even have evidence of an Abraham, or as you call it Abram. It's a story in a book with no evidence to support it. A book that we also have shown is demonstrably false in multiple areas
5) the Christ story is nothing more than somebody trying to fulfill the prophecies from the Old Testament and writing out what they thought would be a Christ figure. The Gospels are anonymous, meaning you have no idea who wrote them. But we do know that they were written decades almost a century after the supposed events and they were not written by eyewitnesses.
6) you have no evidence of Christ, you have no evidence of miracles, you have no evidence of a resurrection. Even if we grant that the Jesus in the Bible was based on a single individual, and not multiple individuals all put together into one, you cannot prove divinity, cannot prove miracles, you cannot prove resurrection. It's a story and nothing more
7) is ridiculous nonsense that any person with common sense would understand that the whole Christ thing was 100% unnecessary nonsense. If God wanted to forgive mankind that all he had to do was forgive. There was no necessity for a sacrifice, there was no necessity for atonement except God said so. Therefore, the entire Christ thing is simply because God made dumb rules that he could've changed anytime you want it to and simply forgive.
8) I have never committed a sin because there is no such thing as sin because as part of your particular mythology that we already know has no basis in reality and is based on the book that has multiple false claims that we have proven false and therefore have no reason to believe whatsoever.
9) there is no such thing as evil, it is a concept, it is an idea, it is a OPINION and nothing more.
Based on what we read from the Bible your God is evil, vile, vindictive, cruel, capricious, xenophobic, homophobic, trans phobic, misogynistic, genocidal, homicidal, sociopathic lunatic
Even if I did believe in God, and I can't because I deal in reason and facts not mythology and, "belief", I would never worship a God that I am morally superior to
You, by the way are also morally superior to the God of the Bible… So is everyone on earth
I am thankful that your God is nothing but a myth created by a bunch of ignorant, stupid, murders, marauding, barbaric proto-Jews in the Bronze Age. Because that means I don't have to way about it, because it's just another myth like Zeus or Odin or Ra.
Take your bronze age mythology, and your ridiculous notion of mercy that aren't mercy and go away
I have no time for your lies
@@paulgoodner2687
Well don't worry about it Paul because you can offend me with a false statement
I know more about the Bible than you do, which is why I first will understand that it's filled with nonsense and myth that we have proven to be false, but I also understand that it is not talking about a loving God but the exact opposite… That's what you get when you have great knowledge of the Bible and honesty as well.
Something I find that believers have neither of
I have read the entire Bible with an open mind, that's one of the reasons why I no longer believe in the nonsense.
Genesis is false. Scientific evidence demonstrates that Genesis is false. Just talking about humans alone. We know there was no Adam and Eve that gave birth to all of humanity, human beings are an evolved species and the overwhelming scientific evidence make that an undeniable fact
The path of that evolution is still in question and were still learning, but there was no Adam and Eve, therefore there was no original sin, therefore there was no fall of man, therefore there was no need for redemption, therefore there was no need for Christ, therefore the entire New Testament is nonsense
As for the New Testament itself, whether were talking about the gospel of John or Mark or whoever, were talking about stuff that was written by unknown sources, written decades after the events, and contain no eyewitness accounts.
If you didn't know that fact that I am happy to share with you. You don't know who wrote the Gospels, but we know they were written by eyewitnesses
There is no, "God's perspective" because there is no God. God is a creation of the human mind. Nothing more.
Human beings created in God because they were intelligent enough to ask questions, but to ignorant to know the answers
Where just under come from, why does the ground shake, why are there tsunamis, and hurricanes, and volcanic eruptions, and on and on. We didn't have the answers, so the answers became some all-powerful being or beings.
But as we have learned we have needed the God filler less and less
Science has replaced the claims about God and divinity repeatedly over the centuries but not want has religion replaced science
By the way, before I stop believing I did exactly what you said, I BEGGED God to show me. And it never happened. I understand why it did happen, because there was no one there to answer your
But even if he was real, I would not want to be friends with your what I want to be saved by a file you will be eating I superior to morally speaking
Sorry, but I am to moral and far too GOOD for your God.
By the way, that's not arrogance, it's just fact… It's also a fact that you and every human being on earth are ALSO too good for your God
I hope you escape the death cult the you are part of and to you do you have my sympathies and my pity
Stephen Fry getting very angry at something he thinks doesn't exist
I’ve noticed that the farther a person is from God, the angrier they become.
It's the idea of it that angers him, the theology. Big difference.
He's angry at God. Just because he doesn't realise it, doesn't mean you shouldn't.....Jesus Christ
With the greatest of respect sir, I think you missed the bit where the interviewer asked “suppose it’s all true… what would Stephen Fry say to him”
As he doesn’t believe such a being exists it’s impossible to be angry at it
Hes angry at him if he does exist like do you even know what hypotheticals are
I'm English and have always found Stephen Fry massively overrated. He might have been 'funny' 40ish years ago but now he's just tedious. Being posh doesn't make you right.
The simplest idea that something CANNOT come from nothing is all I need to have faith in God..
But how did god get here? Is god nothing? If not, then what did he come from? If he has always been, then why can’t the universe itself have always been? You say this is your lynch pin “something can’t come from nothing” but you can’t apply it to your own god. Maybe you believe because you want to and not because of any actual fact or reasoning.
Good thing that isn't the alternative
@@Charon58 God is outside the universe. The univers isn't God. The univers is a creation, so it's created and point towards a Creator. Whare comes God from, you have to figured out. I can't tell you everything. This I tell you God is eternal and outside the created universe.
@mahonri69 can you provide evidence of your claim. Sounds like bullshit to me.
@@milesmason1343 Matthew 16:4 King James Version (KJV)
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign. What proof do you need/look for? Are you really seeking truth?
There is a level of tyranny imbedded in the question "why would God allow evil to exist?" implicit in that question is the the thought that "I wouldn't allow evil to exist." That if they had the power of God, they would impose their will on others, strip away their free will in order to exact their ideal world. Lot's of regimes though out history had that exact same idea, that they could "perfect" humans, those ideas never end well.
@@jonnyxquest You’re wasting your time on the last four words of the question while begging the question and assuming god exists. Start with providing evidence for gods existence. Get that out of the way before jumping to, “allow evil to exist.” I’ll wait.
@EverettVinzant I don't understand what it is you're trying to say. If you're an atheist, then all there that exists is the will of man, so why wouldn't you concern yourself with that? You're basically telling me "no, Hitler isn't a threat, I'd rather talk about fairy tails."
@@jonnyxquest “Then all that exists is the will of man…” I know that. But the people making laws are pretending that they are justified by claiming they are doing the will of a god. If they weren’t ascribing their actions to this nonsense, then they wouldn’t have anything to blame the things they are doing on, would they?
Hitler was a threat because he blamed his right to commit genocide on his religious beliefs. And religious leaders like the pope stood aside and allowed him to commit atrocities. You’re the one endorsing fairy tales…
@@jonnyxquest Begging the question means that you are assuming facts not in evidence. You are assuming a god exists, when you start with “why would god…” Stop there. What god? Man has created 4600 gods. I’d also ask, why the one you picked? I concern myself with the nonsense of religion because it is used as an excuse for bad public policy. Texas outlawed abortion. Maternal deaths have risen 15%. I have two daughters. Of course I’m going to stand against the nonsense of religion.
Technically God could create World free of Evil and with free will. The thing is this is not possible in this world. But if he can do anything this should be possible.
There IS no satisfying answer (for most people), but then again, the very fact that we feel that we deserve some sort of satisfying answer before we agree to believe in, trust in, and even seek out a loving relationship with God is deeply rooted in our prideful rebelliousness that brought about evil in the first place.
Most of the world hates this: we are God's property. He decided that we should experience evil to see what our rebelliousness (that is, thinking our way is better than God's way) has done to His creation, and the world hates that He chose to point out our filth like that. He does have His reasons, and probably they wouldn't completely make sense to us this side of Heaven anyways. He DOES also have plan to bring about justice.
So there are those who say, "I don't get it, God, but I'm Yours, the world is Your. Perhaps, You'll help me know in time. I respect (without needing to understand everything) that You allow and do things according to Your perfect will." (anti-rebelliousness) These people have a higher chance of weathering storms with a certain kind of peace.
And there are those who say, "How dare you treat us this way! I know what this is - you are mean and selfish and don't really love us." (which is to say, "God didn't supply an answer that was sufficient, so I assumed the worse in order to support my continued rebelliousness and defiance.")
These people sound like they kids throwing a pouty fit...
Adult: "Heaven is going to be awesome; no more separation from God, no more evil! He will be able to give us a lot of answers then, if it's even something that we still are bothered about by then."
Kid [stomping his foot on the ground with a pouty face and hands shoved in his armpits]: "I'm not gonna go nowhere 'til someone tells me why there is evil here now!!! I WANNA KNOW NOW!"
Adult: "The Bible gives us some idea, but I'm afraid that we don't have much time this side of heaven for you to completely understand it now."
Kid: "Then, I'm not goin'!"
Adult: "... God might spank you because of this attitude, but you're probably just going to call it 'evil' also, so I'm not surprised if He doesn't answer your every fit and meet your every demand-"
Kid: "... NOT... GOIN'!!"
Adult [sighing]: "... ... Okay."
Fry is not angry at an entity that doesn't exist!
That's right he cannot be angry at something that doesn't exist. If god exists it is only in your head.
If the human mind creates God, then what created the human mind?? Randomness and chaos that somehow assembled itself into something as complex as the human brain? Order and design points to an intelligent mind. Why is this so hard to understand??
Sorry but Judgement awaits you
@@grahamdrabble6789 Still waiting for the Great creator of this universe’s answer, oh Great grahamdrabble6789
so what are those atheists babbling about all the time
“When someone brings an argument you can’t deny, just deny”
Good logic
@@JustCalum If an argument can’t be falsified, it can’t be true. That IS good logic.
@@EverettVinzant no
@@JustCalum Yes.
If something can’t be tested and proven false, by definition, it can’t proven true. You’re wrong, this conversation is over.
@@EverettVinzant you’re wrong and you’re an idiot, hence why you need faith
@@EverettVinzant In logical thinking I consistenly score 100%. Thankfully I started to realise that even with my brain being flawless in logic thinking, I can get things completely wrong. How so? When the input parameters are wrong or more likely incomplete or distorted. My point here, when a Christian and an atheist discuss, they start out with different ideas of the topic, and because of that both might be thinking my side of seeing at things is 100% perfect. I then started to try to understand to other persons view and then it was rather easy for me to see where the real issues are. Good thinking patterns include that ability to take a difference stance in issues. Discussions won't then end in a way that everyone just tries to convince the other of ones points but the real discussion then really starts. Western society with it's critical thinking pattern need to be careful that we do not lose the ability to engage others in a meaningful discussion were both sides are learners. And I think the area where I learned is that I need to be sure that my input is as truthful as it gets, before I even try to find a conclusion. That also something that I saw humanity need to be careful. There are issues that take time to understand, but in this age and time, many people come and say if it's not clear in 2 minutes its a waste of time. That leads to poor thinking, and it leads to sayings that you responded too. And believe me, many people in the past wanted to talk me out of my subjective experiences with God. I get it it's personal and subjective, but they can't be just denied by someone else, just because they don't believe in God to start with. I 100% can understand how others reach a conclusion, while at the same time I maintain their conclusion is not accurate.
What I always uneasy fnd is that an atheist immeditley concludes I am not telling the truth, while I just know the other person doesn't know God how I do, and in general pitty them. Still I am willing to listen, not for the sake of the argument, but for a good interpersonal relationship. And one thing I know too, I still have sometimes to change my viewpoint on issues, because someone pointed out the fallacity of my conclusions. This happens to me, because I am aware that no matter how logically sound my argument is, my conclusion still stands for reason, in other words, I am not God. This little thing called humility can do wonders.
It is important to remember, Job was never given an answer from God why he suffered. Worth reading what God does say to Job .
@@rjearhart2402
Great point!!
The reason is God wanted to win a bet
@@S.D.323 Yeah, I don’t get why people act like Job is a mic drop answer to suffering. If you read the story literally, it says God wanted to win a bet but he tells Job who are you to question me, I’m God. Job was given an answer from God.
@@rjearhart2402 God didn't give an answer to Job because God doesn't answer to His own creation - some things are simply beyond our understanding, and other things (even if we could understand them) will never be known by us..... Anyone who questions that needs to ask how much of their own thought and energy did they put into bringing themselves into existence? Answer: none..... Next step: then shut up.
@@lohi172 Job is a mic drop because it shows that even a blameless righteous man will suffer in this world. Job had the spirit of God. Those who have the Holy Spirit belong to God to do as he pleases, even if is to 'just win a bet.'
Notice how he said I'd believe in another god but not the god of the Bible. Everyone mocks and disrespects Jesus but not Allah or Buddha or Shiva or any other religion. If there was a good and evil why is the 1 religion under attack so strongly? Maybe because the evil side knows it's real and tries to keep you from it.
You are correct, Jesus gets a special attack, because Jesus Christ is the only way that separation from God is bridged, the only way that the penalty of sin is removed, and that's why evil forces attack it. The reason that individuals reject Jesus is because they choose themselves over God (and wow did that atheist guy in the video ever show that). Those that choose God as the greatest good rather than themselves will choose the way to relationship/reconciliation that God has provided, which is through His son Jesus that paid the penalty of sin on one's behalf.
I mock Allah. But that's easy as a Christian.
If you live in a country where Christianity is the most popular and creates the most impact, it makes sense that most of the pushback will be to that belief rather than others that have a relatively small impact. Certainly you can find people arguing against Islam and other religions, too, but if you aren’t part of those communities and you don’t look for them, you probably aren’t going to find them. With Islam, I think it’s much scarier for many to oppose those beliefs since in some countries you can get in big trouble.
@@nickdriscoll6131 And Judaism, Christianity isnt politically radioactive like the other two. The main issue I have with christianity is its similarity tbh and my disagreement that to tie our moral values to god is the way forward. Theres always a human medium interpreting the truth for you that way and tribalism is what got us into this mess in the first place, its not so simple. The disrespect the tribe has for the individual has the potential to destroy lives and it isnt the individuals fault.
There are people who mock Islam as well as every other religion. You've never heard of South Park roasting Scientology or Mormons? Does that make you feel better?
Stephen Fry it’s a good thing you have free will and you do and can live your life exactly how you want and if anything goes wrong you can blame God. God Bless you Stephen Fry, Jesus loves you!!!❤❤❤
No one has the free will to live as they wish, scripture states; "a man's steps are not his own" thus clarifying that no one has free will, but to choose to do things by our own will is to reject God's will, Stephen Fry therefore is wrong, he is very, very wrong! but he denies God because he knows in his heart that in recognising God, he would also have to recognise his own guilt and being homosexual imprisons him in his guilt and that's why Stephen Fry lives in denial of God.
@@normancherry8732 You have shown, how religions can spread hate and make people believe in nonsense. Biblical god is evil monster, so it shouldn't be surprising. But luckly there are believers, who have better morals than you and your god and are able to deny that extremist part of their religion.
The problem with calling God evil is that you acknowledge a universal standard for good and evil. A standard that can only come from God.
not necessarily, you just use god's own alleged standards against himself lol
Illogical drivel. Circular reasoning, as it citing the bible as a reference source for all manner of nonsense. Feel free to delude yourself as much as you like, but you're not deluding me.
What kills me, is that Stephen Fry is a learned man..he has studied the apostolic fathers and many others, wrestle with and destroy the “problem” of evil. He knows the answer and rejects it because he has a heart issue, not because the answer isn’t compelling.
Did he say that? In the video he questioned the goodness (and existence) of God because of the suffering of innocent children. Although I'll admit I don't see why someone suffering is more likely to turn to god anyway. But...I think I may be missing something so whatev.
@@pyrrhicvictory6707We fear that You may be missing Everything!!! Prayers for the lost and deceived and prayers for their victims! Prayers for us ALL!!! ❤️🔥🙏🙏🙏❤️🔥
Don't pretend to know what is inside his mind
I think he clearly demonstrated why he doesn’t find the answers compelling. You don’t have to agree with him but still.
You touched on something I've noticed too (and not just from SF but others) - he sounds so angry when the topic comes up, like personally angry. If he really didn't believe God exists, why anger? It almost seems like it's not so much that he doesn't believe in God, but that he just doesn't like Him. Almost a spirit of " Everyone says you're all good - well, not to me you're not - and I for one, refuse to say you exist - that'll show you God! Take that!"
@@Blurjum2.0 I’ll give you an example of why anger. Politicians are using religious nonsense to set the clock back on civil rights. In Texas they’ve taken away a woman’s right to bodily autonomy because “religion.” Since this change in public policy, the maternal death rate has climbed 15%. It’s so bad that Texas is hiding it by changing the way data is collected, counted, and identified so it can’t be as easily compared historically. Women are dying because a fetus dies in their womb, rots, causes sepsis, and nobody lifts a finger because if a physician assists they’ll be punished for saving the woman’s life by performing an abortion. I have two daughters, guess how much religious nonsense used as an excuse for law pisses me off. Take a guess. If you’re not angry, you’re oblivious to reality.
It also seems like people who think God is evil just totally ignore the way they act and treat people. They act evil towards others and hurt others because they are hurt. The healing they need they reject. They need to accept God's love for them but they keep wiggling out of his arms!
@@kladies3021 The Bible documents that the god you claim exists committed genocide multiple times. I’ve never done that. Have I ever been mean to someone? Yup. Have I ever apologized to someone for being mean to them? Yup. That provided the healing we both needed. Did it have anything to do with the god you claim exists? Nope. I can’t square the circle of genocide = being mean to someone. Help me understand.
@@kladies3021 The Bible documents that the god you are talking about tried to remove entire gene pools of humans from the human race, multiple times. I’ve been mean to someone before. I’ve apologized to them. We both got the healing we needed without the intervention of this god that there’s no evidence for.
@@EverettVinzantStalin, Lenin, Karl Marx have a plethora of destruction and death that have followed their systems that ban God. I haven't seen any fruit from atheism that would make me consider it as good for humanity. I believe in Jesus. But I also have lots of problems with Darwin and atheism as a worldview.
Stephen frys pain is palpable, l pray that Stephen's heart be moved by Jesus Christ and come to know him ❤that would be amazing, pray for him because he has enormous effect on people, including my family.
Praying will not do anything.
Your channel has really helped me grow in my walk with Christ. In my free time I have been translating your videos into Japanese for my friend in Japan.
I decided to post it, linking to your channel. Just incase, ya know? God can do a lot with a little.
Thank you for your work brother.
Wonderful what you are doing.
May God Bless your efforts.
Do you have any other social media?? What you're doing is so awesome!!! God bless you!
This world is far away from being a divine design:
Animal suffering and struggle for survive every single day.
Of course thats not because of human sin:
Animals existed millions of years before humans came up.
@user-vm5yk2js6w
If God created time, he is infinitely dimensional.
He could have created the Earth in 1 Day, 12 minutes, it doesn't matter, HE CHOSE to do it a certain way.
Things like "Time" are irrelevant to Him.
When God looks at YOU. He doesn't see you "right now" YOU are riding the wave of time, little dirt monkey. Not Him. When He looks at us, when He sees the world, He sees ALL OF IT. ONE IMAGE.
So when God chooses to act is relative to US. HE decides how to story looks FROM OUR SIDE.
People who don't understand what it means to be "The One True God" or the "Ultimate Transcendent Being/Mind" have LITTLE understanding of Metaphysics.
The deeper questions are WHY.
And the answer is Jesus.
Understand Christian Theology better, before you critique it. Otherwise, we won't take it as seriously.
@user-vm5yk2js6w
Ultimately, your entire comment boiled down to a heart issue. "I don't like animals suffering" well neither does God.
Read Job 38.
These Moral questions aren't simple. That's why the Bible took THOUSANDS of years. Humans are slow to learn. But God is patient.
It's all ego and hubris to even assume we understand anything about right and wrong, good and evil. It's all value judgement based on our complete ignorance of the grand scheme of things. The challenge is to accept that all is good and is unfolding as it is meant to even when we have no understanding of it.
I just can’t wrap my head around how so many “intellectuals” have such a limit to the depth in which they’re able to think. The argument “there is so much suffering in the world so there cannot be a God” is what I’d expect from a 6th grader. If there was no suffering here, it would already be Heaven. What would be the point of incarnating on Heaven to then die and go to Heaven? There is no growth in that. They can’t consider that maybe the entire purpose of being put into a human body is to know pain so we can grow and learn lessons so we can fully appreciate the unconditional love and bliss we get to experience out of the body?
Tell me would you have let the holocaust happen if you were God if not then you're better than God
You can't get your head around it because you've created a strawman in your head. The problem of evil takes many forms in this case it's the notion that there is VAST amounts of pointless suffering in the world, the example by Stephen Fry highlights suffering that's built into the world. If you believe in God you have to ask yourself what exactly does an inspect exploding from childs eye do that's remotely positive. It's not teaching anything, there isn't a soul building element. It's just pointless from a theistic point of view.
@@francisa4636it is teaching stuff.
To both the insect and the child.
Everything is run by the great law of Karma.
Within the context of reincarnation.
@patinho5589 no its explicitly not teaching anything of moral value in this context. Indeed if anything the only lessons to be drawn is that the world is a cruel pointless place where the innocent have cruel afflictions through no fault of there own.
@@francisa4636it may seem of no moral value because 1. Our brains are limited and unable to comprehend its value until we “cross over” and become fully enlightened and/or 2. The value is that the collective feels empathy for such suffering, thus increasing our capacity for human connection. So, they may seem like a “sacrificial lamb” for the rest of society but their soul chose that as their mission before they incarnated as their ”contribution” to the world. Also, for the person who is suffering from such horror, they come to understand that the moral value from such a cruel experience is understanding peace on a level they can’t imagine (until they’re not on this earth experiencing the pain anymore). Obviously these are just some “optimistic”, perhaps wild sounding theories. And they can be fully disagreed with of course, but not until great consideration and contemplation is given to those ideas. And not just a “yeah, ok, I read it but immediately dismissed it” consideration. But, *actual* thoughtful and earnest consideration. 3 1/2 years ago I would have thought everything I typed just now was utterly insane, but I was thrown, so-to-speak, into a radical spiritual rabbit hole deep dive and after some time, I opened my mind up to the idea that our brains are just really too small to comprehend and some of these concepts are at least up for debate