Visceral Fat Removal Extends Lifespan
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
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Paper referenced in the video:
Visceral adipose tissue modulates mammalian longevity pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18363...
Age- and sex-specific changes in visceral fat mass throughout the life-span
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/f... 
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Theoretically, visceral fat is thought to be responsible, or at least a contributing factor, for multiple disease processes including heart disease, insulin resistant diabetes, and cancer.
yep
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 is milk of any kind responsible for this or sugars junk food excess carbs
Not sure how good the DEXA visceral fat mass estimate is. My visceral adipose tissue was recently reported via DEXA as 471g. But I had a previous DEXA scan done about three years ago , and back then the DEXA scan had reported my visceral adipose tissue at 1549g. But it seems totally unbelievable that my visceral fat mass would have decreased to about 1/3 of previous level, despite having gained fat, gotten older and become less fit/active during the intervening years -- and I also recently had elevated liver enzyme results in a blood test and had a NAFLD diagnosis confirmed by an ultrasound scan, which suggests I very likely still have way too much visceral fat (yet another reason I'm being more serious/disciplined about losing weight and doing more activity these days). So I take the visceral fat mass reported by DEXA with a grain of salt... I'll have another DEXA scan at the end of the year (when I should be down to my 'ideal' BMI) and again at the end of next year (when I can hopefully 'recomp' some of my fat mass into lean mass via consistent weight training while in maintenance mode post-diet), and it will be interesting to see what visceral adipose tissue readings the DEXA scan returns in future.
Were both scans done at the same place? If not I guess they have different programs that process the info...
My local DEXA locations don't even do body fat assessment purely for the lack of programs, they only purchased the bone density one due to demand 🙄
luckily i am in the same ball park with my VF as you... Because i started tracking the diet, one year ago, motivated by your work. I am still in the process of adjusting my feeding habits, but cronometer helped me to create a nutritional precious approach. Thank you very much!
Since I studied physiologcal biology, I am starting coaching and hopefully be successful
visceral fat is a huge problem
I just want to know why my body seems to store fat mostly as visceral fat.
Another great video! And I'm not at all surprised at your low VF given your protocol and your very low overall fat percentage. It's funny, even though mine is also very low, my tummy still has somewhat of a curve. I kind of jokingly asked my doctor: So, if my visceral fat is so low, what the heck is all that in there (pointing to my belly)? She laughed and said: well, there's a whole lot of intestines! As a 56yo mother of two, I face what a lot of other women in my position do, namely, my stomach muscles aren't holding everything in well enough. It's frustrating, but at least I don't imagine it will negatively impact my chances for longevity. Still, more ab work is in my future!
I think we all face that problem to some degree. Solutions are mostly eat less, and work the transverse abdominals by breathing in and bracing during abdominal work.
Could be mild bloating too. Gut health is something to consider.
@@jamesgilmore8192 Yes, but with a couple of caveats. I am in the category where eating less is not a solution. I'm at an 18.5 BMI (and will probably try to increase to 19.0. I also do ab work 3x/week. I think for me it's mainly an issue of muscles becoming detached during pregnancy. The muscles can get stronger, but I don't see a completely flat tummy in my future (and that's okay). 🙂
@@user-zi8hk3ze5g I'm past menopause, so periods are not an issue here. Also, I'm not talking about my tummy being huge. At 56, I can still wear a bikini and look halfway decent. I'm just talking about a little curve in my tummy because my abdominals became detached during pregnancy. Also, I have had an ultrasound and all is well.
Ever since I learned about the omentum and it's harmful secretions, I've wondered about the potential effects of removing it. This is fascinating!
Yeah, I'm with you apparently from most reports it has no major effect on the body when removed, it has lymph nodes in it, which means that it is removed in cases of lymphoma or other cancers to prevent cancer spread.
I wonder how one could go about getting it removed.
Although it seems to possibly play some kind of immune function, but removing it does not seem to increase the risk of any major infections, so who knows.
As we tend to come in different sizes it would have been more insightful to have reported visceral fat as a percentage of total body/fat mass, just a thought.
Great video! Do you have the data/article about visceral fat in humans x age that you posted? I found it quite interesting. Thanks
Apologies, @leandrobecker123, I just realized it's not in the video's description! Here's the link:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oby.23779
Whether it is worth trying to get it low may have more to do with which killers have you in their crosshairs. But we don't even know which ones are spurred on by visceral fat...if any. Removing the fat may actually remove a lot of stem cells that would be useful down the line.
I suspect that visceral fat tends to correlate to some degree with fat in the liver. And it is fat in the liver that is very bad, or is very bad beyond some level.
"But!! The rats!!!" You say. Well, there are a hundred possible reasons the rats with the fat removed, lived longer. The most obvious is that without the fat, they were colder. Lower body temperature extends life. The cooler air from the lungs would pull more heat from the other internal organs, without the fat to reduce that heat loss. This is why calorie restriction works as well. Less calories, less heat, lower temperature, less random destructive reactions. Why do you think naked mole rats live so long? They gave up thermal regulation, that is why they don't need hair anymore. They are coldblooded...like the reptiles that live so long. If the hair is not holding in the heat, it is just making a home for fleas, and lice. Bowhead whales live long because they have a lower body temperature than other whales. Deep sea Greenland creatures? Very cold water. Below freezing. Metformin? Slows metabolism and makes them cooler. Berberine? Same thing. Rapamycin? Yep. Cools body temp.
Almost everything that extends rodent lives does so by lowering temperature. Even stuff that brings down inflammation. Inflammation heats you up. When it is chronic...undesirable reactions accelerate.
High glucose increases temperature. Iron can too. Both are scary for aging.
Do you think cortisol increase V fat?
Great video _ to the point yet very well explained.
Just a by the by comment _ my understanding is that while fat "extraction" procedures for humans are generally a good idea the problem those present is for the people who do not change their lifestyle (eating/exercise habits). Once you have (completely) removed a significant amount of fat you also lose your "capacity to store fat" too. Meaning when the same person gains the fat it will be dangerously distributed in places that have fat cells to shove the fat in.
Interestingly, some recent studies suggested that being slightly overweight (and maybe also having moderate visceral fat mass) at later ages can have some protective effects against dementia risk in some people, while other studies have shown an opposite effect. Perhaps it's just one of those U-shaped relationships just like in many other physiological processes, or it might be due to chance, or more likely confounders, such as (in)adequate sleep, cognitive stimulation, social (dis)engagement, protection of the retina from UV light, and so on.
I personally doubt [being overweight is protective]. What is probably happening with this correlation is that people who gain fat are likely experiencing nutrient surplus. A nutrient surplus is partially protective (not as much as exercise) in a fight against sarcopenia in older adults likely due to anabolism. HOWEVER, I would not want to use a shotgun approach to anabolism -- eating so much my body experiences the negative and positive aspects of anabolism. I would much rather the best of both worlds, anabolism, but not eating enough that my body stores fat.
I would guess that any study that controls for IGF-1 / mTor levels would show that adding [body] fat as well causes problems.
Yep, at older ages that could be true. One explanation is that fat produces antimicrobial proteins (i.e. cathelicidin), which can assist a declining immune system.
While VF within that context could be good news, I'm betting on the side that lifelong leanness (and low VF) will keep the immune system well-functioning, thereby limiting the need for an increase in VS and body fatness.
Great presentation as usual.
For the elderly having enough muscle and escaping frailty is a bigger priority
any amount above very little is inflammating... it is always a sign of too much carbs or energy, even if "at a time".
The protective effect is due to the fact that there is at least a little further bit of subcutaneous fat in the midsection, if there is visceral fat, except for people with a very low personal fat threshold, eg if you have been born underweight.
QUESTION. In the presentation you recommend keeping VF "relatively low' yet your data is in absolute terms. What would be the target VF as a percentage of total body weight
When expressed as a %, VF% will also be low.
Based on a median value of 500g in 20yr old men, for a 70kg person, that would = 1.5% of body weight, so aiming for less than that, and avoiding an age-related increase would be the goal.
My DEXA results have no mention of VFM, but it shows the mass of android fat - same or not?
Android is the region between the rib cage and top of the hip bones (roughly). It would include some visceral fat as well as subcutaneous fat. Find a DXA machine that reported visceral fat next time, or followup your current scan to see if the software gives visceral fat.
Great video as usual mike! is there any other way besides dexa to measure visceral fat at a lower cost and hence more frequently? what about bio impedance scales, are they accurate at all?
Thanks @pablom8406. Waist circumference is an indirect VF measure, that could work. I'm not sure about BIA, I haven't looked into it...
BIA is very inaccurate. Keeping waist as small as possible is the way to keep VF low.
Before I found a place to get a DEXA I had my spouse help me measure my sagital diameter on the floor with a level and ruler and I used an equation I found on-line.
After months of running and sprints it estimated 1.1 lbs where DEXA showed.94 lbs. Another 3 months it indicated 0-0.1 and DEXA was ~0.5 lbs. Good for ballpark or trends, which might be good enough for most needs
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 You can palpate it directly if you know what your doing. Otherwise aiming for
Fascinating! It never occurred to me that someone would have tested this.
Would love to see a study testing visceral + subcutaneous fat removal. Would this effect be equivalent to CR??
Or does the subcutanous fraction not have any independent effects?
it has. see adiponectin, and in female, it synthesizes a bit of estrogens
My limited reading of the literature (so far) is that some amount of subcutaneous fat may be good for health...
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I understand, but can I have as much subcutaneous fat as I want as long as visceral fat is low?
That is the question
@@bobbobson4030There's likely a U-shaped curve for SC fat and health, with too little and too much being bad-that could be a topic of a future video...
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 even with 10..12% body fat, here is just enough to buffer quite some days of non-eating, enough to be endocrinologically active.
The small print is telling us that subcutaneous fat may come in 2 varieties - and all shades in between: hyperplastic, orhypertrophic, fat cells all going to their size limit, or having a lot of small ones. So, even 2 persons with exactly 12% BF can be set up very differently. One is healthy, the other not. The hyperplastic fat is causing insulin resistance all over and inflammation.
Most reasoning goes that during aging it is helpful to have a bit of functional fat tissue. Without insulin resistance, that means that muscle cells do not need to care about fat, which keeps them healthy, and the likelihood for visceral fat may also be lower.
Can humans have VF surgically removed? Liposuction only works on subcutaneous fat.
That's my understanding, too
There is a procedure called an Omentectomy, in which the entire Greater omentum is removed, it seems to not have any negative effects and is commonly done in ovarian/endometrial/appendix/intestinal cancer patients to help prevent metastasis/spread of cancer.
My only concern is that it has lymph nodes and seems to have some kind of immune function, so its hard to say if its removal might leave you vulnerable to infections.
Similar to how the thymus was thought to not be useful in adults but it was later found that its removal can have negative effects on immune function and inflammation.
Although I have heard of cases where the thymus removal 'cured' some peoples autoimmune conditions, so it is possible that the removal of the Greater omentum might similarly help with autoimmunity.
Is it as simple as keeping one's body fat percentage low, and that will typically mean visceral fat stays low. Or is it more complex, and if so, perhaps that can be the topic for another video>
Great question @johnkingshares. The argument against it being a total BF% issue is that VF levels are relatively low, even at > 70y (i.e. 1kg). For example, 1kg of VF at my body weight (64kg) would be 1.5%-I'm not sure about the whole-body BF% reduction that is needed to cut that VF% in half (or more)...
there are overweight people with low amount of visceral fat, sth ilike 5..8% of them, with low insuline resistance, and metabolically healthy. And there is kind of the opposite: slim with a lot of visceral fat, metabolically very sick.
you have to measure it separately, as tose fractions of fat storage act very differently... they aer also created differently.
Below about 20% BF men, 30% BF women there is still a fair amount of scatter in NHANES.
Interesting coincidence. I recently started eating macadamia nuts and noticed improvements in cognition - and have been wondering about possible mechanisms. Palmitoleic acid might counteract some of the effects of palmitic acid; circulating levels of both increase with increasing visceral fat (VF is associated with poor cognition). Of course, I have to be careful about not increasing total calories. My BMI is low, but I don't know how much visceral fat I have. I had an abdominal CT for kidney stones and it covered my whole abdomen. Does anyone know if that would show visceral fat (if I could somehow get access to the images)?
I'd ask the place where you got the CT scan if they can derive VFM from the image...
Yes it would. If you have access to the images, you will be able to see it and can estimate how much you have. It only small amounts (like Bryan Johnson's images for example, then its very low). Unlikely they will report it though.
Very interesting video! Thank you Mike!
@@jamesgilmore8192 thanks!
Incredible work as usual. Thanks for video. Where does one obtain a DXA? How does the average person measure VF? I'm underweight. With all your accumulated data why didn't you just use a VF calculator? Thanks
Thanks @debstayblessed9549, DXA is commercially available, you'd have to search online if it's available where you live.
The most accurate VF assessment, as far as I know, is DXA, not other indirect biomarker measures...
@conqueragingordietrying1797 thank you.
Visceral fat measurement by Dexa is not accurate. Kaeberlien demonstrated this in one of his videos two months ago. Even if it were accurate the scatter plot distribution is not tight enough to use it as a biomarker of aging. Saying you have the visceral fat level of a 20 year old is like saying you have the hair of 20 year old.
There is error inherent in every measurement. Matt's VF went from 0 - 0.5 lbs, which is not a wide variability. His VF is probably very low, below DXA's limit of detection (or close), which might be ~0.5 lbs. If VF went from 0 - 5 lbs, then it would be a concern.
But, you raise a key point-there can indeed be differences based on which DXA machine is used, i.e. the older Hologic models vs newer GE.
@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Yes stick to the newer GE models with the small beam width/more pixels, they resolve the bone much better, which allows for an improved model. For VF to be consistent you also have to control for diet, exercise, hydration 1 to 2 days before serial scans. In VAT precision studies (duplicate scans one after another with repositioning) the %CV is around 5-8%.
surgical? nahhhhh
seventy years old NOT seven years old..correct your pronunciation
Apologies if it sounds like 7yrs old!
There is more going on. Example, as “bad” cholesterol goes down, death from “violent” causes goes up. And yes it’s only anecdotal, but I have 5 close acquaintances who have passed, all athletic, very fit. (I’m in west LA, near the beach, mostly healthy people). My skinny mother-in-law died of a stroke age 90, previous cardiac events, stents etc, while my chubby mother was healthy until 93. They are not outliers. Been observing people for decades.
So what diet should we doing according to your experience?