I love the point you made. You said it differently but here is your point in my words: to validate someone is to invalidate somebody else. To affirm a content creator in their mistype is to potentially hurt someone else who is that type and is seeking understanding. Speaking from my perspective as an INFJ who runs my own channel speaking to other INFJ, I see time and time again in the comment sections how affirming it feels to discover that said commenter is a thing … that there is not something wrong with them, that finding out about INFJ was helpful beyond words. I have heard the same from my Ni dominant friends, the INTJs. And it’s not just INFJ/INTJ or even INxx. It hurts us all when we miss out on not only understanding self but understanding others as well. In a perfect world, all types would be represented here for all of us to learn. Since we do not live in this perfect place, we must all do the best with what we have and with our current understanding. Thank you so much for this video. I wish more people would listen ❤
This is quite the confession! I guess this whole thing is a minefield and I agree. There must be so many mistyped people out there but then again, I guess we also know that we've been accused of mistyping ourselves so it's a good policy to mainly keep these thoughts to ourselves. When I began this channel I was wanting to talk about celebrity types and so on, it's one of those blackholes I think about a lot, but I've changed my mind on my initial typings of so many people that I am very wary. I don't know what the solution is though because we should be discussing and debating these things in order to have progress, surely. Are high Se users the best types for making content on MBTI? Now there's a great question. I do find being an INFP MBTI content creator is a handicap - I suspect all INFPs are similar here, where I can't bring myself to make a proper slick MBTI channel that brings in the views, partially due to my own limitations but also the 'idea' of being that sort of RUclipsr doesn't feel right for me, where I constantly feel the need to bring something new or unique or personal to what I make.
I kinda liked the discussions that used to pop up about my being mistyped, and conjecture on what type I really was. I'm a little soft in the head. People generally don't like it. As for celebrity typing (or typing at all), LoL, even people I've known life long -- I only have about half my family sorted. We've the same challenges. I'll settle on a person's type and then change my mind. That doesn't work very well. What I didn't say about the high Se/high Fe users is that successful MBTI RUclipsrs are doing well with shorts formats. RUclips is pushing them hard these days, and that's really good for people who distill nuggets through the Se/Ni axis. I'll celebrate a video that comes in under 10 minutes. 😉 On a completely different note I was in Amsterdam not long ago and they've got a massive beautiful public garden called "Vondelpark"... which got me curious whether there was any chance of catching a Vondelpete there. Should've packed a butterfly net.
@@dulles1969 Ah yes the beautiful Vondelpark, from which I took my channel name 😅 You certainly could have caught one in mid-July 2007 as he spoke to a tree while under the careful watch of an ISTP who was using me as a guinea pig of sorts for certain natural but semi-legal substances...
@@vondelpete That is a precious image. You emerged no worse for wear, and perhaps better for the experience. I've had ... some experiences and it never occurred to me to talk about them. Some people might actually find those old stories entertaining!
I’ve never heard of people choosing their type. So people are making a differentiation (or separation rather) between the four letter name of the type and the cognitive function stack? That’s interesting if I’m understanding right, I would have probably never thought of that. I can sort of see why you would say that it’s generally not right to question what someone identifies as but I would respectfully disagree and say that this is different. In a way, Mbti types are titles to identify with, but in another way Mbti types (specifically the four letter names each type has) is more of a word to use instead of saying the cognitive function stack. So like the name of the type is synonymous with the stack is what I’m trying to say. Adding onto this, I see cognitive functions as ways of processing and as something observable and that taking more information in about Mbti leading to the person choosing a different type, has no effect in changing their actual function stack, aka their type. There’s no right way to do Mbti so it’s not like I’m saying these are facts. This is just my understanding 🤷♂️. Thought provoking video!
And thank you for your thoughtful comment! ... here's an illustrative example how it's possible MBTI vs. JCF are separate: Let's say I take the official MBTI test administered by a certified practitioner. It returns an ESTJ result. I am now an ESTJ -- officially certified. Now if I go back and re-take the official test, and instead I get an INTJ result -- I have changed, just as officially, to an INTJ. But my cognitive preferences didn't ever change (which might be, e.g., SiTeFiNe). Yes this situation makes for Bizarro World, I agree. In this frame, one can be a FiNeSiTe INFP, or a FeSiNeTi INFP, or a SiTeFiNe INFP... The way cognitive functions manifest is (sometimes, sort of) observable. That makes it easier to point out, e.g., the trappings of Fe vs. Fi and saying someone appears a Fe users ... where it's harder to qualify someone to be a specific type, like ISFJ. Up until now, I leaned into this approach to try and keep people happy. But reflecting on it now ... it's just bad implementation, to try and split the difference in a way... to let someone stay an INFP even as the person shows pretty clearly that they are a Fe user, not Fi.
Hi, yeah i find that i dont type people on the internet ever since questioning certain content creators type in a video (Melissa Speaks or Frank James). I find though that in my mind people do have mbti types but that we don't need to point it out if we think people are wrong, because we don't know their lives. I would say celebrities can be typed in my view but we have to be ok with it being completely wrong. I love ESFP content but i think you're giving INFPs too little credit. I love INFP creators 😊
I agree, I think there's a little community of people who do like INFP content creators. They like the long form and the reflection. But that makes us not natural entertainers. RUclips is tilting toward a TikTok or Instagram format. It's promoting little bite-sized entertainment over long-form videos. And people with higher Se and Fe are better at that format.
I should mention on the front of long-form vs. quick clips, the first version of this video was almost 30 minutes long. That was too dull even for me. 😆
@@dulles1969 your channel is less about entertainment and more about education, which is great! I would watch a half hour of Dulles 😊 who really cares about the algorithm?
@@_lil_lil There's hope -- there are INFPs in entertainment, so it is possible. But they all -- seem so offbeat. I think of Heath Ledger or David Bowie, or Florence Welch. Seems to be some persona-building, and then they use it as a front to engage with an audience. Yikes, what's involved with that is asking a lot.
My cognition is up for discussion?! I suppose you could make observations and statements about it, but I was not aware people were interested in scrutinizing me, and can I trust people for a consistent analysis? Your too timid for isfj but that opinion isn't exhaustively supported.
Ya got me -- I have to caveat, to limit the scope. Discussing cognition in this context starts with someone voluntarily going on public display as an example of type. If I make a video claiming to be an ENTJ ... while wearing an old baseball cap and baggy sweats, publishing a 30 minute monologue that reprises in fine detail a bunch of my experiences as an ENTJ, and ramble about things I like or hate as a representative of type ... then I think it's fair for you to comment on what you saw -- it just happens to take cognitive function notation -- this is what Fi looks like, and it's not what Si blind spot looks like. An unusual ENTJ. Totally agree there are different interpretations of the functions, some fundamentally different. So you get one person talking Pi vs. Ji, another Fi vs. Fe, another Progression or Concrete. The common thread is that they're talking in one way or another about what's observable. Civility and good taste are in play, too. In my comments, I asked the content creator please to delete them if they were objectionable/inappropriate. I ended up deleting my comments. Because I didn't play it straight from the start, and that was wrong. Final thought: Dunno if it was in this video, but I don't have the talent or the stomach to be Type Police. By the time I pick up on something being 'off', it's got to be really far out of line, beat-me-over-the-head obvious.
@@dulles1969 , I intuitively If I am to respond I will share experience, there is an app about meeting people with the theme being typology, these individuals are not likely to be that type, but very likely have attributes associated with the typology, it’s not a fair requirement of a person when the theory itself has terms that are not derived from constants as evidently present as gravitation. Furthermore the controlling of f confounding variables makes for more uncertainty in real world conditions. An esfp who would test intp on a ‘short form’ test because of valuing or being coerced to pursue academics.
@@jeremiahfix5529 Oof, navigating MBTI themed meetups, nevermind dating/buddy apps must be an interesting, and probably confounding, experience. On the bright side, it's a mutual starting conversation topic for a meetup? Next time I'll try the kayak group... 😉 Your example scenario doesn't meet the criteria for public figures, or for people holding themselves up as exemplars of type. But (at least from my point of view), they are all interesting to think about as aspects of what ways one value (accuracy/correctness/truth) can collide and conflict with another value (kindness/validation/support). Which goes back to the conclusion that not saying anything is best. But then there is no discussion, no exchange of ideas. I don't just wanna sit in an echo chamber being validated (with an understanding that other people feel very differently about having their thoughts/ideas questioned). So I'm grateful for the discussion we're having. Thank you.
I love the point you made. You said it differently but here is your point in my words: to validate someone is to invalidate somebody else. To affirm a content creator in their mistype is to potentially hurt someone else who is that type and is seeking understanding. Speaking from my perspective as an INFJ who runs my own channel speaking to other INFJ, I see time and time again in the comment sections how affirming it feels to discover that said commenter is a thing … that there is not something wrong with them, that finding out about INFJ was helpful beyond words. I have heard the same from my Ni dominant friends, the INTJs. And it’s not just INFJ/INTJ or even INxx. It hurts us all when we miss out on not only understanding self but understanding others as well. In a perfect world, all types would be represented here for all of us to learn. Since we do not live in this perfect place, we must all do the best with what we have and with our current understanding. Thank you so much for this video. I wish more people would listen ❤
This is quite the confession! I guess this whole thing is a minefield and I agree. There must be so many mistyped people out there but then again, I guess we also know that we've been accused of mistyping ourselves so it's a good policy to mainly keep these thoughts to ourselves. When I began this channel I was wanting to talk about celebrity types and so on, it's one of those blackholes I think about a lot, but I've changed my mind on my initial typings of so many people that I am very wary. I don't know what the solution is though because we should be discussing and debating these things in order to have progress, surely. Are high Se users the best types for making content on MBTI? Now there's a great question. I do find being an INFP MBTI content creator is a handicap - I suspect all INFPs are similar here, where I can't bring myself to make a proper slick MBTI channel that brings in the views, partially due to my own limitations but also the 'idea' of being that sort of RUclipsr doesn't feel right for me, where I constantly feel the need to bring something new or unique or personal to what I make.
I kinda liked the discussions that used to pop up about my being mistyped, and conjecture on what type I really was. I'm a little soft in the head. People generally don't like it.
As for celebrity typing (or typing at all), LoL, even people I've known life long -- I only have about half my family sorted. We've the same challenges. I'll settle on a person's type and then change my mind. That doesn't work very well.
What I didn't say about the high Se/high Fe users is that successful MBTI RUclipsrs are doing well with shorts formats. RUclips is pushing them hard these days, and that's really good for people who distill nuggets through the Se/Ni axis. I'll celebrate a video that comes in under 10 minutes. 😉
On a completely different note I was in Amsterdam not long ago and they've got a massive beautiful public garden called "Vondelpark"... which got me curious whether there was any chance of catching a Vondelpete there. Should've packed a butterfly net.
@@dulles1969 Ah yes the beautiful Vondelpark, from which I took my channel name 😅 You certainly could have caught one in mid-July 2007 as he spoke to a tree while under the careful watch of an ISTP who was using me as a guinea pig of sorts for certain natural but semi-legal substances...
@@vondelpete That is a precious image. You emerged no worse for wear, and perhaps better for the experience. I've had ... some experiences and it never occurred to me to talk about them. Some people might actually find those old stories entertaining!
@@dulles1969 I definitely emerged...quiet and reflective for a few days after that. Hm I certainly would find it entertaining, I'm sure most would!
I’ve never heard of people choosing their type. So people are making a differentiation (or separation rather) between the four letter name of the type and the cognitive function stack? That’s interesting if I’m understanding right, I would have probably never thought of that. I can sort of see why you would say that it’s generally not right to question what someone identifies as but I would respectfully disagree and say that this is different. In a way, Mbti types are titles to identify with, but in another way Mbti types (specifically the four letter names each type has) is more of a word to use instead of saying the cognitive function stack. So like the name of the type is synonymous with the stack is what I’m trying to say. Adding onto this, I see cognitive functions as ways of processing and as something observable and that taking more information in about Mbti leading to the person choosing a different type, has no effect in changing their actual function stack, aka their type.
There’s no right way to do Mbti so it’s not like I’m saying these are facts. This is just my understanding 🤷♂️. Thought provoking video!
And thank you for your thoughtful comment! ... here's an illustrative example how it's possible MBTI vs. JCF are separate: Let's say I take the official MBTI test administered by a certified practitioner. It returns an ESTJ result. I am now an ESTJ -- officially certified. Now if I go back and re-take the official test, and instead I get an INTJ result -- I have changed, just as officially, to an INTJ. But my cognitive preferences didn't ever change (which might be, e.g., SiTeFiNe).
Yes this situation makes for Bizarro World, I agree. In this frame, one can be a FiNeSiTe INFP, or a FeSiNeTi INFP, or a SiTeFiNe INFP...
The way cognitive functions manifest is (sometimes, sort of) observable. That makes it easier to point out, e.g., the trappings of Fe vs. Fi and saying someone appears a Fe users ... where it's harder to qualify someone to be a specific type, like ISFJ.
Up until now, I leaned into this approach to try and keep people happy. But reflecting on it now ... it's just bad implementation, to try and split the difference in a way... to let someone stay an INFP even as the person shows pretty clearly that they are a Fe user, not Fi.
Oh ok, yeah I think I see what you mean, thanks for the long reply
Hi, yeah i find that i dont type people on the internet ever since questioning certain content creators type in a video (Melissa Speaks or Frank James). I find though that in my mind people do have mbti types but that we don't need to point it out if we think people are wrong, because we don't know their lives. I would say celebrities can be typed in my view but we have to be ok with it being completely wrong.
I love ESFP content but i think you're giving INFPs too little credit. I love INFP creators 😊
I agree, I think there's a little community of people who do like INFP content creators. They like the long form and the reflection. But that makes us not natural entertainers. RUclips is tilting toward a TikTok or Instagram format. It's promoting little bite-sized entertainment over long-form videos. And people with higher Se and Fe are better at that format.
I should mention on the front of long-form vs. quick clips, the first version of this video was almost 30 minutes long. That was too dull even for me. 😆
@@dulles1969 your channel is less about entertainment and more about education, which is great! I would watch a half hour of Dulles 😊 who really cares about the algorithm?
@dulles1969 me, who wants to be an entertainer and my worst functions are Fe and Se: *[sad noises]*
@@_lil_lil There's hope -- there are INFPs in entertainment, so it is possible. But they all -- seem so offbeat. I think of Heath Ledger or David Bowie, or Florence Welch. Seems to be some persona-building, and then they use it as a front to engage with an audience. Yikes, what's involved with that is asking a lot.
My cognition is up for discussion?! I suppose you could make observations and statements about it, but I was not aware people were interested in scrutinizing me, and can I trust people for a consistent analysis?
Your too timid for isfj but that opinion isn't exhaustively supported.
Ya got me -- I have to caveat, to limit the scope. Discussing cognition in this context starts with someone voluntarily going on public display as an example of type.
If I make a video claiming to be an ENTJ ... while wearing an old baseball cap and baggy sweats, publishing a 30 minute monologue that reprises in fine detail a bunch of my experiences as an ENTJ, and ramble about things I like or hate as a representative of type ... then I think it's fair for you to comment on what you saw -- it just happens to take cognitive function notation -- this is what Fi looks like, and it's not what Si blind spot looks like. An unusual ENTJ.
Totally agree there are different interpretations of the functions, some fundamentally different. So you get one person talking Pi vs. Ji, another Fi vs. Fe, another Progression or Concrete. The common thread is that they're talking in one way or another about what's observable.
Civility and good taste are in play, too. In my comments, I asked the content creator please to delete them if they were objectionable/inappropriate. I ended up deleting my comments. Because I didn't play it straight from the start, and that was wrong.
Final thought: Dunno if it was in this video, but I don't have the talent or the stomach to be Type Police. By the time I pick up on something being 'off', it's got to be really far out of line, beat-me-over-the-head obvious.
@@dulles1969 , I intuitively If I am to respond I will share experience, there is an app about meeting people with the theme being typology, these individuals are not likely to be that type, but very likely have attributes associated with the typology, it’s not a fair requirement of a person when the theory itself has terms that are not derived from constants as evidently present as gravitation.
Furthermore the controlling of f confounding variables makes for more uncertainty in real world conditions.
An esfp who would test intp on a ‘short form’ test because of valuing or being coerced to pursue academics.
@@jeremiahfix5529 Oof, navigating MBTI themed meetups, nevermind dating/buddy apps must be an interesting, and probably confounding, experience. On the bright side, it's a mutual starting conversation topic for a meetup? Next time I'll try the kayak group... 😉
Your example scenario doesn't meet the criteria for public figures, or for people holding themselves up as exemplars of type. But (at least from my point of view), they are all interesting to think about as aspects of what ways one value (accuracy/correctness/truth) can collide and conflict with another value (kindness/validation/support).
Which goes back to the conclusion that not saying anything is best. But then there is no discussion, no exchange of ideas. I don't just wanna sit in an echo chamber being validated (with an understanding that other people feel very differently about having their thoughts/ideas questioned). So I'm grateful for the discussion we're having. Thank you.