"People do expect social feedback, and I screw it up. I mean to be more on autopilot and hope to get things right, so I would hope people would listen to my words more than try to interpret body language because I may get that stuff wrongn, I'm not good at that sort of thing." I feel this way a lot, and it's a big source of uncertainty and insecurity and frustration for me to be so in tune with people but still get this basic stuff wrong and only realize it hours later, while in the moment taking the other person's discomfort as rejection of me. I hate knowing better and not doing better!
Great video and completely agree, it's quite a misconception. I find too that, at least with me and some of my INFP friends, the inner values, which are often being assessed and reassessed internally, have this way of being seen by, let's say 'T' types, as being overly provocative - maybe this is why I'm sometimes seen by people as an ENTP (which is quite funny). But you know, as you made that comparison with INTPs and INFPs - I've often many INTPs are extremely rigid with their beliefs and values, in a way they wouldn't be with their logic, and I think it's an interesting comparison to show what happens when Fi is basically removed from the equation. And of course, those 'rigid' beliefs can take a u-turn after a few months with high Ti users. In the same way that, say, my RUclips videos show a disregard for Ti and I'm constantly seeing my own inner logic being inconsistent, and I guess I don't really care. I suppose I've known INFPs, particularly younger INFPs, to create an impression of being rigid with their inner values, and expressing them openly. I think that's all to do with identity, especially when I look back to the age of 21-22, say, where I know that my rigid beliefs were more to do with trying to assert who I was, more than the topic itself (at least with political or social ideas) although that was just my experience.
I can see why they think you're an ENTP -- you can't spell voNdElPeTe without ENTP! I haven't tested Fi at all with the two people I know best who I believe are INTPs. With one, we are comfortable after decades of knowing each other, and we've always engaged with Ne tool. I wish I could get him on camera -- put us together, add a catalyst and hilarity ensues. The other is a gentle soul who is extremely inward-focused and lets very little of what he actually thinks, escape. And -- you are one step ahead of me! 😅 I was thinking I need to call myself out for the exceptions from when I was a young adult (18-21 or so), the cringe time(s) that I went nuclear on someone else.
Ti and Fe users in my experience tend to find me quite inconsistent and at the same time very stubborn, which is a terrible combination. I don't know how to explain that my way of thinking takes into account that I'm a subjective and fluid being with only control over my own beliefs at that specific moment.
Stubborn, absolutely! If someone thinks they can do an end run around Fi, that just isn't going to work. Because you've developed and trust your feelings over matters, the same way that a Ni user would develop and trust their intuition, a Ti user their rational conclusions, or a Si user their experiences. I think consistency might be harder to pin down, because consistency can mean a lot of different things. I'm pretty sure you'd be careful to avoid hypocrisy. And you're paying attention to what is the right thing to do, whether or not it's what you want or is convenient -- you don't just do what you 'feel like' doing. On the other hand, thinking related consistency (Te with Si) around doing the same thing the same way each time -- that is going to be tough.
I hear a lot of what you're saying about INFPs not wanting to impose their views on others, but that being said how do you think the integration of the ENFJ shadow plays into this? ENFJs are organizers/campaigners striving to change the external world, so I would think that INFPs who are integrating their shadow would be moving more in the direction of actually trying to change the outside world, albeit still in an INFP way, i.e. leading by example rather than telling other people directly what to do.
Hi Laura -- good question! I've intentionally stayed away from four sides of the mind and subtypes, and also mostly from enneagram (and other extensions by CSJ, OPS, CPT, and so forth). But @Vondelpete has brought up four sides of the mind in some of his past videos. I try to stick to cognitive functions, talking both 4- and 8-function stacks. I apologize, this is probably way too pedantic an answer. I think extensions overcomplicate because some overlap with each other, and people have different ideas about which extensions are/aren't valid. There is a place for these theories, but I try just to stick to the cognitive core -- Fi(Te) supported by Ne(Si).
Just off the cuff thoughts here, high Se users might come off as judgmental. But I don't see that coming from deeply held beliefs so much as pushing out an opinion or point of view they have in the moment. So some ESxPs can come across as pushy and/or provocative. ENxPs can be provocative, too, but in more of an intellectual way. When it comes to deeply held beliefs that are more set in concrete, I'd look to the SJ Guardians, who are more likely to be uncomfortable and respond if their well-established principles are challenged.
Interesting point of view, one that, for me, inspires INFP reflection on what it means to judge and what it means to aspire.
"People do expect social feedback, and I screw it up. I mean to be more on autopilot and hope to get things right, so I would hope people would listen to my words more than try to interpret body language because I may get that stuff wrongn, I'm not good at that sort of thing." I feel this way a lot, and it's a big source of uncertainty and insecurity and frustration for me to be so in tune with people but still get this basic stuff wrong and only realize it hours later, while in the moment taking the other person's discomfort as rejection of me. I hate knowing better and not doing better!
Great video and completely agree, it's quite a misconception. I find too that, at least with me and some of my INFP friends, the inner values, which are often being assessed and reassessed internally, have this way of being seen by, let's say 'T' types, as being overly provocative - maybe this is why I'm sometimes seen by people as an ENTP (which is quite funny). But you know, as you made that comparison with INTPs and INFPs - I've often many INTPs are extremely rigid with their beliefs and values, in a way they wouldn't be with their logic, and I think it's an interesting comparison to show what happens when Fi is basically removed from the equation. And of course, those 'rigid' beliefs can take a u-turn after a few months with high Ti users. In the same way that, say, my RUclips videos show a disregard for Ti and I'm constantly seeing my own inner logic being inconsistent, and I guess I don't really care.
I suppose I've known INFPs, particularly younger INFPs, to create an impression of being rigid with their inner values, and expressing them openly. I think that's all to do with identity, especially when I look back to the age of 21-22, say, where I know that my rigid beliefs were more to do with trying to assert who I was, more than the topic itself (at least with political or social ideas) although that was just my experience.
I can see why they think you're an ENTP -- you can't spell voNdElPeTe without ENTP!
I haven't tested Fi at all with the two people I know best who I believe are INTPs. With one, we are comfortable after decades of knowing each other, and we've always engaged with Ne tool. I wish I could get him on camera -- put us together, add a catalyst and hilarity ensues. The other is a gentle soul who is extremely inward-focused and lets very little of what he actually thinks, escape.
And -- you are one step ahead of me! 😅 I was thinking I need to call myself out for the exceptions from when I was a young adult (18-21 or so), the cringe time(s) that I went nuclear on someone else.
Ti and Fe users in my experience tend to find me quite inconsistent and at the same time very stubborn, which is a terrible combination. I don't know how to explain that my way of thinking takes into account that I'm a subjective and fluid being with only control over my own beliefs at that specific moment.
Stubborn, absolutely! If someone thinks they can do an end run around Fi, that just isn't going to work. Because you've developed and trust your feelings over matters, the same way that a Ni user would develop and trust their intuition, a Ti user their rational conclusions, or a Si user their experiences.
I think consistency might be harder to pin down, because consistency can mean a lot of different things. I'm pretty sure you'd be careful to avoid hypocrisy. And you're paying attention to what is the right thing to do, whether or not it's what you want or is convenient -- you don't just do what you 'feel like' doing. On the other hand, thinking related consistency (Te with Si) around doing the same thing the same way each time -- that is going to be tough.
I hear a lot of what you're saying about INFPs not wanting to impose their views on others, but that being said how do you think the integration of the ENFJ shadow plays into this? ENFJs are organizers/campaigners striving to change the external world, so I would think that INFPs who are integrating their shadow would be moving more in the direction of actually trying to change the outside world, albeit still in an INFP way, i.e. leading by example rather than telling other people directly what to do.
Hi Laura -- good question! I've intentionally stayed away from four sides of the mind and subtypes, and also mostly from enneagram (and other extensions by CSJ, OPS, CPT, and so forth). But @Vondelpete has brought up four sides of the mind in some of his past videos. I try to stick to cognitive functions, talking both 4- and 8-function stacks.
I apologize, this is probably way too pedantic an answer. I think extensions overcomplicate because some overlap with each other, and people have different ideas about which extensions are/aren't valid.
There is a place for these theories, but I try just to stick to the cognitive core -- Fi(Te) supported by Ne(Si).
A little bit off topic but I think ESTPs come across as super judgmental and opinionated.
Just off the cuff thoughts here, high Se users might come off as judgmental. But I don't see that coming from deeply held beliefs so much as pushing out an opinion or point of view they have in the moment. So some ESxPs can come across as pushy and/or provocative. ENxPs can be provocative, too, but in more of an intellectual way. When it comes to deeply held beliefs that are more set in concrete, I'd look to the SJ Guardians, who are more likely to be uncomfortable and respond if their well-established principles are challenged.