Only 1/3 into video...but... AMAZING! I am basically self taught and in first minute or two I kept saying EXACTLY! I attended a masterclass as an audience member many many years ago. I literally could not believe the control he had. He, on one set up, could imitate every students playing style like a high res digital recorder. He was blind at the time...but could hear if student cheeks puffed out...even a tiny tiny bit. He was able to reproduce the shortcomings and knew EXACTLY why it was happenning and exactly how to correct it. I am an old man now...but remember the emotional impact of witnessing his inconceivable mastery as if it was yesterday. Videos like this are invaluable!
Thanks for your very nice comment. It is a regret that I missed the opportunity to attend a master class. At the time, I didn’t think I could afford the trip. If we only knew when we were young, eh?
Great points. I often see people whose hands have a lot of excess motion. The left hand can often be a real problem. One comment on the scherzo- over the years I came to realize that if I leave the finger in contact with the G# and pressing that key down while I am playing the A, I only need to lift the finger tip to move between those two notes.
Thanks for commenting. If it works, it works. There are some really great players with lots of excess motion, and I wouldn’t try to change a student who is obviously one of those geniuses. Most, however, benefit from building economy and rhythm into the hands.
Really thoughtful and wonderful stuff. It is fun to see that I am not the only person who thinks a lot about these types of things. Even nicer when someone so clearly illustrates the same position (literally) that I have come to believe in
That is coming in “The Wisdom of David McGill” video. In my view (and not saying everbody should hold it), musical fluency rests on a foundation of sound and ample fundamental technique. I would say Marcellus’s recording of the Mozart Concerto is pretty fluent. In my teaching experience, the player who possesses prodigious, flawless technique, great sound and perfect rhythm but has nothing to say musically is pretty rare. I’m sure Yehuda Gilad’s experience is different. Thanks for the comment!
@@jackhowell8708 agree you can’t have one without the other. Though it’s easier for many to play very technically and as you say not have anything to say or understand how to shape phrases or show musical line. But then some American schools of pedagogy can be somewhat dogmatic and heavily reliant on technique in comparison to Europe where musicianship and technical fluency are generally considered par with one another. Great video which helps to simulate interesting discussion on this topic.
Always interesting to have a European perspective. When I was in New Zealand I had to adjust because - I was informed - they considered themselves a European orchestra and my playing was too inside-the-lines. That said, Bonade was European, Tabuteau was European. The audition game in the US plays a part; you can’t win a job without saying something musically, but you also have to be super accurate. It also occurs to me that early music education in Europe may be better than in the US. It’s easier to work on phrasing with a student who can play all the scales.
Thank you, Jack! I've been working on hand position with some of my students, and your explanation of the 3 rules is very helpful! It'll be great to have simple and concrete rules to share with students.
Thank you! I greatly appreciate you approaching our wonderful instrument through brain based learning! It is a wonderful approach for students of all levels!
This is not a video to merely WATCH, but to thoroughly STUDY 😅 It finally gave me a useful soundless excercise, that I can spend quality rehearsel time on, when otherwise playing would annoy or upset people in my vicinity. One finger motion difficulty I was hoping you had elaborated on: The chromatic movement up and down between chalemaux G and C , involving the B natural banana key. Especially going down, after having deployed and released the banana key, I always found fingers 2, 3 and 4 out of position, messing up those lower notes (especially with a 😂poorly covered 3 hole). If I understand your instructions correctly, pushing down the banana key with finger 3, actually moves my 2 (and 3) and 4 fingers AWAY (i.e. above) from their standard position, and when releasing the banana key, the standard hand position must be reset, BEFORE I finger the A and Ab, otherwise all right fingers (except the index finger and thumb 😉) will be in a hot mess. Or is there another rule of motion I should deploy in my top-down, slow and effortful endeavour to correct this problem? 😊
If I understand the question correctly, the thing I’d suggest is reviewing the “lockdown” drill, where the hand position of long B (or low E) is maintained while only one finger at a time moves up and down, obeying the 3 rules. The issue of one fingering dragging other fingers out of position is pretty common. We learn bad hand position habits because early on the music is slow and we have time to flail our hands around. By the time we encounter music that can’t be played it’s too late, the habits have deep roots. Another common culprit for the right hand is the E flat/B flat key. Players get in the habit of pushing it with the forward part of the index finger, and/or letting the other fingers bunch up. For your specific issue, try playing chromatically from first register G sharp up to C and back down, leaving the G sharp depressed. The pinky being constrained will maintain hand position. If you have large hands and/or thick fingers, you may need to press the back of the sliver (banana) key so your fingers don’t rub or get pushed out of position. With all such finger work, be very careful to stay relaxed. Changing movements that have perhaps thousands of hours of repetition behind them is NOT what your body wants to do. Your subcortex will always try to return to the familiar patterns, and consciously fighting that will result in lots of tension, which can cause injury. So always be thinking while working to make changes, and always assessing, feeling for tension or hesitation. There may be another video on this, especially if that doesn’t answer your question.
@@jackhowell8708 thank you so much for your afvise, Jack, I'm alteady applying it in my training, and will for some time, to see if I can really change old habits. This is exciting. I find practicing in front of phone video and reviewing after is more beneficial than mirror, because live-monitoring of finger movements divides my attention.
Could you recommend recordings of Marcellus? Chamber music, concertos (other than his great Mozart recording), etc. I am not able to find many examples of Marcellus playing. Thank you,
The main one is his Mozart Concerto, but anything with Cleveland/Szell will be Marcellus Brahms 3, Beethoven 6, Mendelssohn 4/MND, I think are all streaming but others are on RUclips. One of his greatest recordings (and I think his last) was Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet right after Szell left, with Dohnanyi. His Schubert Octet live broadcast recording floated around as a bootleg for years but was released in a CD boxed set of broadcast recordings by TCO maybe 15 or 20 years ago. That set may be rare by now but contains many gems and is worth a search. Most of the Cleveland/Szell recordings were released on the Columbia Classics (I think, I’m not at home so I can’t look) budget label, so anytime I see a bunch of used CDs for sale I look for them for students. There is a recording of Premier Rhapsodie with orchestra out there. And some other solo recordings in the hands of collectors that are currently highly restricted but fantastic and I hope someday see some sort of release.
That particular one isn’t on the NU site, oddly, but the curious clarinetist website has it. Will have to make sure it’s linked in the description. Thinking about your finger question.
I think there is one limited exception to not bending more than one finger joint: when you have to occasionally slide your pinkies down from a higher to a lower key on a Boehm system instrument.
Hmm, perhaps. I just tried it, and I think when I slide the curve stays pretty constant. But I also tried sliding by curving more and can see how that works. In any case, having a curve to the pinky gives options. Thanks for the thoughtful comment, I appreciate it.
@@jackhowell8708 , it may depend upon the length of your pinkies (and maybe is also different for different size clarinets). In any case, if you do need to use more finger joints to alter the degree of bend, it should be kept to a minimum.
Yep, not arguing the point, when you commented I had to try to see how I did it, not that my way is right, I actually hadn’t thought about it. I think slides can be done with tightening the curve as you said, or with a combination of that and a bit of hand/wrist pivot, but if you start with a decent hand position and curved pinkies it’s hard to go too far wrong. Thanks again for the discussion.
Which part? Teaching finger motion I make the point that the up and down motion being the same speed is crucial because, unlike piano, the up motion changes pitch just as the down motion. But I remember similar hand position drills from piano lessons, holding a C major position and lifting one finger at a time, holding the curve, moving only at the big knuckle.
Only 1/3 into video...but...
AMAZING!
I am basically self taught and in first minute or two I kept saying EXACTLY!
I attended a masterclass as an audience member many many years ago. I literally could not believe the control he had. He, on one set up, could imitate every students playing style like a high res digital recorder.
He was blind at the time...but could hear if student cheeks puffed out...even a tiny tiny bit.
He was able to reproduce the shortcomings and knew EXACTLY why it was happenning and exactly how to correct it.
I am an old man now...but remember the emotional impact of witnessing his inconceivable mastery as if it was yesterday.
Videos like this are invaluable!
Thanks for your very nice comment. It is a regret that I missed the opportunity to attend a master class. At the time, I didn’t think I could afford the trip. If we only knew when we were young, eh?
Excellent instructional video with good explanations! Thank you!
Great points. I often see people whose hands have a lot of excess motion. The left hand can often be a real problem. One comment on the scherzo- over the years I came to realize that if I leave the finger in contact with the G# and pressing that key down while I am playing the A, I only need to lift the finger tip to move between those two notes.
Thanks for commenting. If it works, it works. There are some really great players with lots of excess motion, and I wouldn’t try to change a student who is obviously one of those geniuses. Most, however, benefit from building economy and rhythm into the hands.
Really thoughtful and wonderful stuff. It is fun to see that I am not the only person who thinks a lot about these types of things. Even nicer when someone so clearly illustrates the same position (literally) that I have come to believe in
Awesome, thanks for commenting!
Excellent video, so many great quotes that help understand our quest that is gaining instrumental technical fluency.
And what about musical fluency? Technique is a means to an end.
That is coming in “The Wisdom of David McGill” video. In my view (and not saying everbody should hold it), musical fluency rests on a foundation of sound and ample fundamental technique. I would say Marcellus’s recording of the Mozart Concerto is pretty fluent. In my teaching experience, the player who possesses prodigious, flawless technique, great sound and perfect rhythm but has nothing to say musically is pretty rare. I’m sure Yehuda Gilad’s experience is different. Thanks for the comment!
@@jackhowell8708 agree you can’t have one without the other. Though it’s easier for many to play very technically and as you say not have anything to say or understand how to shape phrases or show musical line. But then some American schools of pedagogy can be somewhat dogmatic and heavily reliant on technique in comparison to Europe where musicianship and technical fluency are generally considered par with one another. Great video which helps to simulate interesting discussion on this topic.
Always interesting to have a European perspective. When I was in New Zealand I had to adjust because - I was informed - they considered themselves a European orchestra and my playing was too inside-the-lines. That said, Bonade was European, Tabuteau was European. The audition game in the US plays a part; you can’t win a job without saying something musically, but you also have to be super accurate. It also occurs to me that early music education in Europe may be better than in the US. It’s easier to work on phrasing with a student who can play all the scales.
Thank you, Jack! I've been working on hand position with some of my students, and your explanation of the 3 rules is very helpful! It'll be great to have simple and concrete rules to share with students.
Thanks, that is exactly what I had hoped.
Thank you! I greatly appreciate you approaching our wonderful instrument through brain based learning! It is a wonderful approach for students of all levels!
Thank you, I certainly believe in it.
Tons of extremely good information in this video!
Such a good lesson and very affordable. Thank you.
Glad you liked it!
This is not a video to merely WATCH, but to thoroughly STUDY 😅
It finally gave me a useful soundless excercise, that I can spend quality rehearsel time on, when otherwise playing would annoy or upset people in my vicinity.
One finger motion difficulty I was hoping you had elaborated on: The chromatic movement up and down between chalemaux G and C , involving the B natural banana key. Especially going down, after having deployed and released the banana key, I always found fingers 2, 3 and 4 out of position, messing up those lower notes (especially with a 😂poorly covered 3 hole).
If I understand your instructions correctly, pushing down the banana key with finger 3, actually moves my 2 (and 3) and 4 fingers AWAY (i.e. above) from their standard position, and when releasing the banana key, the standard hand position must be reset, BEFORE I finger the A and Ab, otherwise all right fingers (except the index finger and thumb 😉) will be in a hot mess.
Or is there another rule of motion I should deploy in my top-down, slow and effortful endeavour to correct this problem? 😊
If I understand the question correctly, the thing I’d suggest is reviewing the “lockdown” drill, where the hand position of long B (or low E) is maintained while only one finger at a time moves up and down, obeying the 3 rules.
The issue of one fingering dragging other fingers out of position is pretty common. We learn bad hand position habits because early on the music is slow and we have time to flail our hands around. By the time we encounter music that can’t be played it’s too late, the habits have deep roots. Another common culprit for the right hand is the E flat/B flat key. Players get in the habit of pushing it with the forward part of the index finger, and/or letting the other fingers bunch up.
For your specific issue, try playing chromatically from first register G sharp up to C and back down, leaving the G sharp depressed. The pinky being constrained will maintain hand position. If you have large hands and/or thick fingers, you may need to press the back of the sliver (banana) key so your fingers don’t rub or get pushed out of position.
With all such finger work, be very careful to stay relaxed. Changing movements that have perhaps thousands of hours of repetition behind them is NOT what your body wants to do. Your subcortex will always try to return to the familiar patterns, and consciously fighting that will result in lots of tension, which can cause injury. So always be thinking while working to make changes, and always assessing, feeling for tension or hesitation.
There may be another video on this, especially if that doesn’t answer your question.
@@jackhowell8708 thank you so much for your afvise, Jack, I'm alteady applying it in my training, and will for some time, to see if I can really change old habits. This is exciting. I find practicing in front of phone video and reviewing after is more beneficial than mirror, because live-monitoring of finger movements divides my attention.
Wonderful Jack.. very informative... Id ring you for a lesson if I was nearby !! thanks and look forward to lesson two!
Thanks for the support.
Thank you, these videos really help
Glad you like them!
Could you recommend recordings of Marcellus?
Chamber music, concertos (other than his great Mozart recording), etc. I am not able to find many examples of Marcellus playing.
Thank you,
The main one is his Mozart Concerto, but anything with Cleveland/Szell will be Marcellus Brahms 3, Beethoven 6, Mendelssohn 4/MND, I think are all streaming but others are on RUclips. One of his greatest recordings (and I think his last) was Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet right after Szell left, with Dohnanyi. His Schubert Octet live broadcast recording floated around as a bootleg for years but was released in a CD boxed set of broadcast recordings by TCO maybe 15 or 20 years ago. That set may be rare by now but contains many gems and is worth a search.
Most of the Cleveland/Szell recordings were released on the Columbia Classics (I think, I’m not
at home so I can’t look) budget label, so anytime I see a bunch of used CDs for sale I look for them for students. There is a recording of Premier Rhapsodie with orchestra out there. And some other solo recordings in the hands of collectors that are currently highly restricted but fantastic and I hope someday see some sort of release.
struggling to locate the mentioned Marcellus master class video at Northwestern website…
That particular one isn’t on the NU site, oddly, but the curious clarinetist website has it. Will have to make sure it’s linked in the description. Thinking about your finger question.
Hard to find many examples of Marcellus playing. Not like Harold Wright who has an abundance of recordings on You Tube.
👍👍👍👍
I think there is one limited exception to not bending more than one finger joint: when you have to occasionally slide your pinkies down from a higher to a lower key on a Boehm system instrument.
Hmm, perhaps. I just tried it, and I think when I slide the curve stays pretty constant. But I also tried sliding by curving more and can see how that works. In any case, having a curve to the pinky gives options. Thanks for the thoughtful comment, I appreciate it.
@@jackhowell8708 , it may depend upon the length of your pinkies (and maybe is also different for different size clarinets). In any case, if you do need to use more finger joints to alter the degree of bend, it should be kept to a minimum.
Yep, not arguing the point, when you commented I had to try to see how I did it, not that my way is right, I actually hadn’t thought about it. I think slides can be done with tightening the curve as you said, or with a combination of that and a bit of hand/wrist pivot, but if you start with a decent hand position and curved pinkies it’s hard to go too far wrong. Thanks again for the discussion.
We learn this at Lennie Tristano piano school.
Which part? Teaching finger motion I make the point that the up and down motion being the same speed is crucial because, unlike piano, the up motion changes pitch just as the down motion.
But I remember similar hand position drills from piano lessons, holding a C major position and lifting one finger at a time, holding the curve, moving only at the big knuckle.