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Another reason why it might have been used in Syria is that there were a lot of Russian aircraft also in the area which would’ve loved to point their radars at something like an F-35 to see what its RCS actually looks like, but with the F-117 being old tech (still capable if doing the job required in that particular theatre) it was less of a security risk.
The theory running around New Mexico (where the F-117s live), is they're being used as OpFor trainers too. It's probable the F-117 has comparable stealth characteristics to the latest Chinese stuff.
I love the f-117, the a-10c (I have both in toy collectable form) and the f-14b which is on display near a veteran's memorial near my place. Although I may not agree with how WT handles these aircraft but I'm still happy to see them 😊
Well this should work amazingly in Warthunder, what with it usually being daylight, and in all air modes except sim you have a bright red name over your head… that’s not going to affect the stealth at all…
It's also at a BR in which it's too low to face any of the radars it was designed to combat, making it's stealth design entirely pointless, but is also too high a BR to be able to carry enough bombload to actually take out the bases. It's a stealth bomber that can't stealth or bomb. Classic Gaijin to make another iconic American plane just another useless sitting duck in the skies by forcing them into the worst possible situations they could ever imagine being in. Like an F-117 stealth night bomber put in broad daylight against planes without radar, or the A-10 being forced to fly in VERY heavily occupied airspace without cover, or the B17 flying solo without a formation.
@@ScientistMan96 It's a Stealth Attack Aircraft. Not a Stealth Bomber, as even engineers mention it should have had the A designation for Attacker. It's not meant for killing bases, it's meant for going after ground targets like pillboxes in air rb.
There’s a story out of the build up for desert storm of the US requesting permission to fly a couple of tankers through a country’s air space (I think it was Greece). Well they sent a couple of planes up to investigate why a couple of tankers were flying through in the dead of night. It was quickly determined that they were being escorted by a couple of nighthawks
@@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933 Yep. Not surprised. Probably buy into the myth that the F-117 stealth doesn't actually work because one got shot down that one time, and then never again.
I think the biggest issue is war thunder doesn't exactly encourage you to use these like they're intended, at the short ranges that War Thunder CAS operates at the F-117 would still be a pretty easy target even irl, if matches lasted longer and were on larger maps that encouraged players to be flying at altitudes of 30,000+ feet then it would probably be a pretty capable vehicle even with the limited payload.
One of the guys who worked on the f117 precursor (Lockheed Martin's "Skunk Works" division) came to my school and talked about that stuff with the flat panels. Flat panels dump radar waves at the sharp angles, so they designed the angles in a way to mostly reflect all radar way from where a dish would be located. (Behind it, not below it?) He also talked about working on the first "stealth boat" (IX-529 Sea Shadow). It was incredibly cool. The boat was so invisible to radar, they had to add radar noise out the top because you'd be watching down into the ocean from a plane and see a black mark where no emissions at all came back unlike the random fluctuations from the water. It was raised off the ground and had two counter-rotating propellers that cancelled any wake (kind of like The Hunt for Red October).
Agreed. Growing up, the F-117 was a little boy’s dream plane. Seeing it at a young age, we knew there was no way it could be touched… then we grew up and realized its just a bomb truck and not an actual fighter. That was a major let down lol. Still the coolest designs for an aircraft ever though.
@@rcrawford42I think that was a high brass decision. They felt like people would be more likely to want to try out this new aircraft if it was a "fighter" instead of a "bomber"
I like the F117 for the same reason I like the F15. There're so many cool stories about their development and time in service that they really stand out to me.
About a month ago I went to Hill AFB Aerospace museum and was able to see the F-117 up close. I was way way excited to see such a cool plane up close, it made my month.
A little condensed history lesson of the F-117, out of all F-117 produced one was shot down, this happened during the Serbian war. The reason why the F-117 was shot down was during its bombing campaign against Serbia, one night a few F-117 took off from their base to bomb enemy targets. This base however was being spied on, and also due to F-117 only being allowed to fly a certain path, the Serbians knew the general location the F-117s would be flying in. So one SAM placement was watching the radar for the planes to appear, but nothing appeared on radar and so the radar guy (sorry I don’t know the proper terminology) kept turning his radar on and off every few radar cycles and it just so happened when he turned on his radar the F-117 had its bomb bays open, meaning the plane lost it’s stealth ability and was now low visibility. So the radar guy spotted the F-117 and fired two ground to air missiles, one missed the F-117 but the other hit the plane. Lucky the pilot was able to eject and was saved by American forces.
Whenever this story is mentioned, it always results in some kind of argument about incompetence or poor engineering etc, but I'd say it really speaks to the strengths on both sides: the merits of the plane to be basically completely invisible, despite the radar operators KNOWING that they were there, whilst the Serbian planning and intelligence gathering that allowed the much less sophisticated assets (like air defence and intelligence equipment) being able to come together to shoot the plane down.
Honestly the story about the SAM battery commander and how they modified the radars a bit and the tactics they used to keep the site alive under intense American SEAD activity is pretty amazing.
If youre reffering to tracking vs search radar, I think its an interesting debate since often times they use different bands for search and track, one obvious such example is the Pantsir with F and K bands for the radars respectively (which is why the tracking radar is invisible to a lot of RWRs, although they could be adjusted on more modern jets to include it in their perceived threats sensors which is why I'm against the current shenanigans with it) but if you're referring to the mistake they made when talking about the Strela, the sensor on top of it is a RANGING radar, not a tracking one, which is because optically the Strela can lock on to F117, which might have been what Bo was a bit mistaken about too, since he had his lock mode to automatic, which checks for both options to see which one can get a clearer lock, so he might have been locking on optically rather than the IR signature. EDIT: it has come to my attention that its also has a PASSIVE radar receiver, namely 9S16 Flat Box RF Passive Detection System (the little box thingy above the driver's optics) which is essentially a ground rwr which automatically cues the TELAR linked to the system to the direction of the source of the signal. It also allows the Strela to have advanced warning about aircraft vaguely pointed in their direction, forcing them to keep their radars off.
Actually it is search radars tend to use longer wavelengths which carry batter over distance and have better ability to detect stealth aircraft tracking radars tend to use lower wavelengths for higher fidelity but lower wavelengths have a harder time detecting stealth
I used to play the heck out of F-19 Stealth Fighter game right before the F-117 became public knowledge, so I also have a particular nostalgia for this plane.
I mean, the F-117 is basically ancient history, you can probably just find publicly available blueprints, or they may have even just scanned a museum piece to make a 3D model.
@@bilalsadiq1450 What I'm referring to is the restricted documents that were leaked on the War Thunder forums a while ago that included stuff like sensor locations.
As someone who stopped playing warthunder back in 2020 I have to admit it’s incredibly satisfying watching you laser a target with the F117 watch the bomb bay deploy and watch it reach its target. I know you suggested that a nice change for Air RB for the plane would be an air spawn instead of having to take off. Though I find another change that could work is that the plane itself does not show a player target icon in Air RB until you are at a certain distance to the aircraft. This I think would help with the intent of the aircraft which is to avoid detection whilst still keeping it balanced since the plane does not have any means to defend itself.
So I'm guessing the Air RB system of showing enemy combatant names kind of ruins the planes sole defensive ability of not being able to be seen easily.
I've still got a Revell 1:72 modelkit sitting around. 10 year old me thought it didn't need paint because the plastic was black 😂 Probably my third ever model I made, and the aircraft that got me hooked!
Guide on how to fly the F-117 correctly in ground RB This is a stealthplane and it has no defences so fly it like one Climb as high as you can But stay below the altitude where contrails appear. The contrails will make you very easy to detect. And make sure to climb away from the battlefield 16km+ is recommended Then turn towards the battle and use your good optics to scout for enemy SPAA This is for a few reasons 1. If you bomb something when they have active SPAA players they will try shoot you down 2. You have limited ordanance so killing enemy SPAA will actually have the largest impact on the opposing team since they are likely low on spawn points and killing them will effectively remove 1 player from their team for the rest of match. 3. You can do this relatively safely and clear the way for your teams more hard hitting CAS If there are no enemy SPAA in sight bomb the highest priority target (this might lead to a very angry and aware SPAA appearing on opposing team) After a strike run keep going straight fly away from the battlefield again the same 16km distance is recommended before turning around Have a bind set for closing the bomb bay because having it open makes you easier to detect on radar But do remember that people have eyes and they can see you even if they dont see you on radar And if you get detected you should reset strike run and aproach from different direction Getting detected in F117 leaves you very vulnerable. Your biggest threats being IR guided missiles, optical trackers and interceptors Use laser guided weapons because they can hit moving targets If you follow these steps the enemy SPAA will have a very hard time dealing with you and you will get the jump on them 90% of the time Keep in mind that after you strike the enemy will be looking for you The stealth will prevent them from detecting you in their radar when you approach and when you get to ranges where their radars can start to brute force through your stealth you will be above them in their blind spot In other words they will never see you in their radars
Watching the intro makes me miss the long discussion videos y'all would do about military history. Hope you do more of these intros or bring back those vids.
one of my favorite stories from the F-117's service comes out of the Yugoslav war...and no, it's not the one you think it is. I forget what night it was, but there were -117s and F-15s up, I believe attacking an airfield. Yugo MiG-29s came up to challenge them, and the F-15s...you know, being F-15s...basically went "Ah, free XP!" The issue was the F-117s were between the high F-15s and the climbing MiG-29s. This let to an amusing incident where an AIM-120 flashed past the right side of a Nighthawk, followed quickly by a nearly-supersonic Eagle.
See the TV series "Dogfights" series 2 episode 9. The F-15 drivers talked about what would happen if there were fighter in the area, as they were going to be above the F-117s. The F-117s said that wouldn't happen. So, as you said, it DID happen, only it was 3 AIM-120s and the F-15. The key aspect was, the F-15 didn't know the F-117 was there at all, only seeing the Mig-29s taking off.
All the things you listed, the lack of armamanet, slowness, no counterneasures were pretty much in the irl plane as well. Maybe more exaggerated in the game but still present. This thing was made to be stealthy, not a dogfighter or even a fighter, per se.
Bo now you know how I feel about the A-10 in Warthunder I absolutely love the aircraft but gaijin completely bungled its redundancies and I constantly get blasted by Russian and Chinese AAA right after spawning
Love the beginning with all the interesting facts. The F-117 is also something very special to me. It was my first and only model I ever had and something I have many childhood memories associated with
14:49 as a maintainer in the air force I would be pulling my hairs out if I saw a pilot fly like that due to all the inspections that would need to be done. Just more for my air frame I work on.
So one thing about the F117 being an F designation is because of various treaties meant the U.S. could only have a specified number of bomber aircraft. If they were to build it as a specified B117, they would have to reduce the number of bomber aircraft in the inventory to remain treaty complient. I believe they then managed to secure an air to air kill of a helicopter with some sort of bomb from the F117 allowing the military to say it is a "fighter". Thats a story I have heard and believe
If I recall it was almost entirely because the best pilots wanted the prestige of flying a fighter instead of a bomber, otherwise it probably would have gotten an Attack designation, same with the F-111, so to attract the best pilots the USAF had they fudged the designation.
I really love how you guys explain the history behind these aircraft. As both an engineer and a history nerd, it’s just awesome. Also helps with the longer video length 😉
Fact about the F-117 and it's stealth capability. They designed the shape to be super stealthy THEN tried to make that shape flyable! The engines on this are the non-afterburner version of the F404 (F404-F1D2) engine used on the F-18 Hornet. I used to overhaul these engines. Also NEVER intended to deployed as a day bombing aircraft. The reason it is called the Nighthawk. Duh!
Honestly I don't feel like it was done dirty in WT, its performance feels accurate enough to real life. The issue is that war thunder is completely not designed around any sort of stealth bombing at all. The game design favours dogfights and SPAA, bombing targets are few and far between on a huge hairball dogfight in broad daylight. We already know bombers in the game have been suffering for forever because of the game design shafting them, the f117 really didn't need to be in this game and has no real role in war thunder.
Question I have now is at what range does a 117 player name show up to the enemy? 'What's stealthy about it when everyone can see your name ten miles out' was one of my first thoughts when I heard the 117 was being added.
Loved the little history lesson at the beginning, Bo! I thought I knew a fair bit about the F-117 already, but I had no idea about the lone fighter version. That is really cool. Shame it didn't work out. This video however really did work out!! I feel all your effort and pain was worth it! Thanks for the content, fellas!
The plane should be near invisible from most angles except for directly above or below and IR missiles should not be as effective against as they are. The only time it should be visible is when its bomb bay is open and that’s only open for a split second as it’s designed to drop the bomb as soon as it opens. I Love the plane but it is definitely not as effective as its real life counterpart. I think the plane should definitely be buffed because it is lacking in game currently.
A guy I work with was working construction one summer with his dad on this guys house and found out he was a pilot of the Nighthawk when the plane was NEW. Said it was an interesting conversation and he got a challenge coin from the guy before the job was done. Love the video Bo!
The story I saw about why the 117 was used in 17 was because of the laser designation system. There wasnt an equal to it at the time for other aircraft.
I have no idea how people struggle with this plane, i played a lot of games already killed around 30 tanks, shot down twice, 1 time by a ir aa and on time by a plane. What Bo said in the video makes zero sense, one of the best things about the plane is that it spawns overspeeding, meaning you can climb really really fast, i spawn turn to the left and climb to 5k then drop my 2 bombs, get 2 kills, and repeat. prob one of the easiest planes ive ever played in grb.
Well it doesn't have defensive armament because it is for one a bomber and two it has steath capabilities and i assume that having extras would be a challenge.
7:20 Mr Bo! this test was a mild mistake in that you were using auto-select-guidance on the Strela! aka the game decides on if you should optically track or IR track, as it was a clear sky the missile switched to the much-longer (and unjammable) optical tracking which negates F-117's stealth! (also, in Air RB, enemy AI ground targets spot you for the enemy team) (also fun fact, did you know that *technically* there were two F-117s shot down by that SPAA commander? they shot a second one a few weeks later, it managed to get back to base but was so badly damaged it was scrapped on site and sent back to the USA in parts for analysis. because it didn't crash/explode after the initial hit they were never credited with the kill)
@@sydney4814 It did not crash land, it got back to base safe and sound but the damage made it not worth repairing Think of it like a cars transmission breaking so it cant go over 3rd gear, ya it still works in gears 1-3 but you are going to want to get that replaced or it could break entirely
The F-117 also is supposed to have a much smaller IR signature, but gaijin hasn't taken that into consideration. Realistically it should be hard to lock it with anything but a very good all aspect missile. Not to mention its still very easy for radar SPAA to lock it despite the stealth.
11:40 Speaking of giant flags slapped on planes, the JASDF has (or had) an F-15J with the Australian flag covering almost the entire top of the left wing (JASDF F-15J, 303 Sq Japan and Australia Joint Training 'Bushido Guardian' 2023
I didn't want them adding this, primarily because of how cool it really was; there's no way for that to translate in to War Thunder, and it ends up just being pointless. So we get another example of something American that in real life is or was outfuckingstanding, but ingame is practically pointless.
Fun fact the geometric shape was actually found in a Russian archive. And that also contributed to its shape. Just because" it's officially retired ". Doesn't mean the milatery will never use it again. We've pulled and used WW2 battle ships out of retirement.
Funny story about the development of the Nighthawk. They made a very large, but not 1:1 scale of the aircraft and tested it on a radar range where they bombard objects with radar to measure its radar cross section. When the test started, they started the radars on a very high setting where they can get as many returns as possible and aimed it squarely at the model. They immediately got a blip back and the engineers were very disappointed. When they looked back onto the test range, they realized a bird had landed on the model itself and was what the radar was detecting. The model itself was so stealthy, it was only visible on radar if a bird landed on it.
A Heyo Bo hope you’re having a good day, week. Your hard work is much appreciated and keep up the great work :D. And to the friends of Bo, much appreciation from my side for helping Bo produce content and being great friends. I will try to keep consistency with commenting this giant list of tanks, but other than that great video Bo! (DISCLAIMER: Some vehicles have been done so excuse the double input). Like always, the choice Is yours! America: M4A3E2/ M4A3E2 (76) W, T14, M56, M50, T26E5, T26E1-1, T34, M46, M47, M103, T95, M728 CEV, M6A2E1, T54E2, T54E1, M551, M3 Bradley, XM803, LAV-AD, M1128, CCVL, HSTV-L Germany: 15cm sIG 33 B Sfl, VFW, KW II 754 (r), DF105, Radkampfwagen 90, Leopard 2K, Gepard, Wiesel 1A2, VT1-2, Maus, Turm III, Raketenautomat, TAM-2C, Panther II, Tiger II H/ Tiger II (H) Sla.16, Jagdtiger, Russia: KV-1 (L-11), T-34-85 (D-5T), KV-2 (1939), SU-100Y, KV-220, T-34-100, T-44-100, BTR-ZD, M53/59, 2S3M, ASU-85, T-54 (1951), IS-3, IS-4M, SU-122-54, Object 268, IS-6, Object 120, T-10A/T10M, TO-55, IT-1, Object 775, T-55AMD-1, BMP-3, BMD-4, BMP-2M, Object 292, IS-7, Object 279, PT-76-57 Great Britain: Matilda III, AEC MK II, Churchill Crocodile, Skink, FV4005, Falcon, Conway, Conqueror, Centurion Mk.5 AVRE, Rooikat 105/MTTD, ZA-35, Bhishma TWMP, Black Night Japan: Chi-Ha Short Gun, Chi-Ri-II, Chi-Ha LG, Ho-Ri Prototype/ Production, Type 87 RCV, Type 74 (F)/ Type 74 (E)/ Type 74 (G), TXK (P), Type 16, Type 75 MLRS, TKX/Type 10, Type 60 SPRG, Type 93 China: Object 122MT, ZBD04A, ZLT11, PGZ09, Italy: Breda 501, AUBL/74 HVG, FIAT 6614, R3 T20 FA-HS, C13-90, R3 T160 FA, VCC-80/60, OF-40 MTCA (recently got DM33), Centauro I 120, OTOMATIC, Leopard 1A5 (The Italian Leopard is the only Leopard variant that features a Laser Warning Receiver) France: 2C Bis, E.B.R (1954), Somua SM, AMX-50 Foch, AMX-10RC, MEPHISTO, Lorraine 40t, AMX-Surblindé, AMX-50 (TO90/930), AMX-32 (120)/ AMX-40, LecLerc’s (Any variant) Israel: Magach Hydra, Namer 30 New vehicles from update: PLZ05 (166mm penetration of HVAP HE), JA37DI (either pack or tech tree), T77E1 (A Texan must love his .50 cals), Super Hind, Bmp-2MD
I love that historical intro to the video, wish you'd do more historical focused stuff in full length. I used to watch your plane specific videos back in the day (side chat podcast) and I adored the series so much!
I’ve been to the Kalamazoo air zoo and they have some pretty cool stuff on display I don’t know if they changed some stuff around cause I haven’t been in a while
Favourite plane growing up was... hmm. Honestly, I love the look of the F-106 and the F-5E. Those two just... *chef's kiss.* A-10 is right up there too. In any case... Should you be near (or going to) either the USAF Museum in Dayton, or the Kalamazoo Air Zoo in Michigan - and if the latter, *go to the restoration shop, both to see this and just to see the cool stuff they have* - you can see an F-117. The one in Kalamazoo's the only private one, as I recall (and they had to do some scrounging while restoring to simulate all the stuff that had to be taken off. it's really fascinating.) (Edit - posted that before watching, great that youv'e been to kalamazoo!) The USAF museum, of course, also has the YF-23 (*gorgeous*) and the X-32 (Not... quite so gorgeous,) among other things. Plan two days, I was rushing through that last hangar!
Between BONEs Spooky and the Nighthawk, we really had some kick ass bringers of "dead of night" back in the day, B2 had a lot to live up to, and the 21 will continue the legacy
The F-117 is in the same place as strategic bombers. There is no way to make them work in the current game and never should have been added, or should have their own game mode
I think an easy assist for this plane in the air combat matches is simple: No name or player marker. Visual spotting only, no target information. It is after all a stealth plane.
What was your favorite plane growing up?
War Thunder Twitch Drops will be happening this weekend! I will be streaming starting at 1PM CST and through out the day over @ www.twitch.tv/botimegaming drop by and say hello!
gotta be the B-2
p 47 i think
Corsair or Lancaster, still are to this day
The B-17 Flying Fortress, P-47, and F4U.
F4U Coursair's
Another reason why it might have been used in Syria is that there were a lot of Russian aircraft also in the area which would’ve loved to point their radars at something like an F-35 to see what its RCS actually looks like, but with the F-117 being old tech (still capable if doing the job required in that particular theatre) it was less of a security risk.
The theory running around New Mexico (where the F-117s live), is they're being used as OpFor trainers too. It's probable the F-117 has comparable stealth characteristics to the latest Chinese stuff.
....the f35 wasnt even produced at that time
@@sawyerawr5783thats public knowledge, airforce still lists them as trainers.
I love the f-117, the a-10c (I have both in toy collectable form) and the f-14b which is on display near a veteran's memorial near my place. Although I may not agree with how WT handles these aircraft but I'm still happy to see them 😊
@@sawyerawr5783 The F-117 has a very similiar radar signature to cruise missiles. They like to use them as opfor air and ground testing.
Well this should work amazingly in Warthunder, what with it usually being daylight, and in all air modes except sim you have a bright red name over your head… that’s not going to affect the stealth at all…
does it even have anti air missiles, it doesnt have guns so i dont think its even useful in air
@@Kaiberus It's only got the ability to load bombs, up to 2x 2000 lbs (guided or unguided)
It's also at a BR in which it's too low to face any of the radars it was designed to combat, making it's stealth design entirely pointless, but is also too high a BR to be able to carry enough bombload to actually take out the bases.
It's a stealth bomber that can't stealth or bomb. Classic Gaijin to make another iconic American plane just another useless sitting duck in the skies by forcing them into the worst possible situations they could ever imagine being in. Like an F-117 stealth night bomber put in broad daylight against planes without radar, or the A-10 being forced to fly in VERY heavily occupied airspace without cover, or the B17 flying solo without a formation.
@@ScientistMan96 It's a Stealth Attack Aircraft. Not a Stealth Bomber, as even engineers mention it should have had the A designation for Attacker. It's not meant for killing bases, it's meant for going after ground targets like pillboxes in air rb.
I think there may have been talk of giving it two sidewinders at one point, but I don't think anything came of it.
"Get High. Get REALLY High."
--Way ahead of you bud!
There’s a story out of the build up for desert storm of the US requesting permission to fly a couple of tankers through a country’s air space (I think it was Greece).
Well they sent a couple of planes up to investigate why a couple of tankers were flying through in the dead of night. It was quickly determined that they were being escorted by a couple of nighthawks
It was over austria
@ thank you, I wasn’t sure.
@@THECHEESE2023yeah sick
Despite being a stealth aircraft, it's anything but here in War Thunder.
Gaijin dropping the ball once again.
@@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933 Yep. Not surprised. Probably buy into the myth that the F-117 stealth doesn't actually work because one got shot down that one time, and then never again.
It's not invisible though @@tetsatou2815
@@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933How come you guys always comment under each other?
I think the biggest issue is war thunder doesn't exactly encourage you to use these like they're intended, at the short ranges that War Thunder CAS operates at the F-117 would still be a pretty easy target even irl, if matches lasted longer and were on larger maps that encouraged players to be flying at altitudes of 30,000+ feet then it would probably be a pretty capable vehicle even with the limited payload.
"The F-117 was my favorite plane as a kid"
Jebus I'm old, mine was the F-104.
*crys in f-104 starfighter (born december 1997 btw)
F-104 is my favorite too!
You dont need to he old to have liked an old plane, im 16 and my favourites been the phantom for as long as i can remember
Mine has always been the P-38, but I'm not THAT old!
My favorite is the spitfire mark 1 with the 8 .303 caliber machine guns and I am only 19
One of the guys who worked on the f117 precursor (Lockheed Martin's "Skunk Works" division) came to my school and talked about that stuff with the flat panels. Flat panels dump radar waves at the sharp angles, so they designed the angles in a way to mostly reflect all radar way from where a dish would be located. (Behind it, not below it?)
He also talked about working on the first "stealth boat" (IX-529 Sea Shadow). It was incredibly cool. The boat was so invisible to radar, they had to add radar noise out the top because you'd be watching down into the ocean from a plane and see a black mark where no emissions at all came back unlike the random fluctuations from the water. It was raised off the ground and had two counter-rotating propellers that cancelled any wake (kind of like The Hunt for Red October).
Cool
Agreed. Growing up, the F-117 was a little boy’s dream plane. Seeing it at a young age, we knew there was no way it could be touched… then we grew up and realized its just a bomb truck and not an actual fighter. That was a major let down lol. Still the coolest designs for an aircraft ever though.
Yeah, the "F" designation was either a joke or misdirection.
@@rcrawford42I think that was a high brass decision. They felt like people would be more likely to want to try out this new aircraft if it was a "fighter" instead of a "bomber"
Gaijin: Puts the F-117A Nighthawk into the War Thunder.
War Thunder: Rarely has night battles.
I like the F117 for the same reason I like the F15. There're so many cool stories about their development and time in service that they really stand out to me.
About a month ago I went to Hill AFB Aerospace museum and was able to see the F-117 up close. I was way way excited to see such a cool plane up close, it made my month.
Cool you should go to WPAFB in Ohio the museum there is AWSOME
I saw the f117 too I only wish I spent more time looking at it
A little condensed history lesson of the F-117, out of all F-117 produced one was shot down, this happened during the Serbian war. The reason why the F-117 was shot down was during its bombing campaign against Serbia, one night a few F-117 took off from their base to bomb enemy targets. This base however was being spied on, and also due to F-117 only being allowed to fly a certain path, the Serbians knew the general location the F-117s would be flying in. So one SAM placement was watching the radar for the planes to appear, but nothing appeared on radar and so the radar guy (sorry I don’t know the proper terminology) kept turning his radar on and off every few radar cycles and it just so happened when he turned on his radar the F-117 had its bomb bays open, meaning the plane lost it’s stealth ability and was now low visibility. So the radar guy spotted the F-117 and fired two ground to air missiles, one missed the F-117 but the other hit the plane. Lucky the pilot was able to eject and was saved by American forces.
Whenever this story is mentioned, it always results in some kind of argument about incompetence or poor engineering etc, but I'd say it really speaks to the strengths on both sides: the merits of the plane to be basically completely invisible, despite the radar operators KNOWING that they were there, whilst the Serbian planning and intelligence gathering that allowed the much less sophisticated assets (like air defence and intelligence equipment) being able to come together to shoot the plane down.
Honestly the story about the SAM battery commander and how they modified the radars a bit and the tactics they used to keep the site alive under intense American SEAD activity is pretty amazing.
that is not how radars work
if the radar can't detect you, it cannot lock onto you just because you can visually detect the enemy
Wouldn't it depend on the kind of radar system? Many AAs have separate radar sets for searching and for tracking
If youre reffering to tracking vs search radar, I think its an interesting debate since often times they use different bands for search and track, one obvious such example is the Pantsir with F and K bands for the radars respectively (which is why the tracking radar is invisible to a lot of RWRs, although they could be adjusted on more modern jets to include it in their perceived threats sensors which is why I'm against the current shenanigans with it) but if you're referring to the mistake they made when talking about the Strela, the sensor on top of it is a RANGING radar, not a tracking one, which is because optically the Strela can lock on to F117, which might have been what Bo was a bit mistaken about too, since he had his lock mode to automatic, which checks for both options to see which one can get a clearer lock, so he might have been locking on optically rather than the IR signature.
EDIT: it has come to my attention that its also has a PASSIVE radar receiver, namely 9S16 Flat Box RF Passive Detection System (the little box thingy above the driver's optics) which is essentially a ground rwr which automatically cues the TELAR linked to the system to the direction of the source of the signal. It also allows the Strela to have advanced warning about aircraft vaguely pointed in their direction, forcing them to keep their radars off.
Actually it is search radars tend to use longer wavelengths which carry batter over distance and have better ability to detect stealth aircraft tracking radars tend to use lower wavelengths for higher fidelity but lower wavelengths have a harder time detecting stealth
I used to play the heck out of F-19 Stealth Fighter game right before the F-117 became public knowledge, so I also have a particular nostalgia for this plane.
I wonder if they used those documents that got leaked for the model.
Nah, those were sent to the KGB via private connections.
I mean, the F-117 is basically ancient history, you can probably just find publicly available blueprints, or they may have even just scanned a museum piece to make a 3D model.
@@bilalsadiq1450 What I'm referring to is the restricted documents that were leaked on the War Thunder forums a while ago that included stuff like sensor locations.
As someone who stopped playing warthunder back in 2020 I have to admit it’s incredibly satisfying watching you laser a target with the F117 watch the bomb bay deploy and watch it reach its target. I know you suggested that a nice change for Air RB for the plane would be an air spawn instead of having to take off. Though I find another change that could work is that the plane itself does not show a player target icon in Air RB until you are at a certain distance to the aircraft. This I think would help with the intent of the aircraft which is to avoid detection whilst still keeping it balanced since the plane does not have any means to defend itself.
This plane is meant to be a stealth bomber. It gets to the battle, drops its payload, and then leaves before the enemy knew what happened.
More so a Stealth Attacker, but with the same strategy. Attack the base before the base gets alerted, then dip before they notice the plane.
Today on BTG: Bo enforces a fishing licence, Zuit's squeezing into tight spaces and Stickboy tries to look pretty.
they were used on night op strikes in Desert Storm. most of the heavy bombing was done by F-16, F-15, F-111& A-6 intruders
So I'm guessing the Air RB system of showing enemy combatant names kind of ruins the planes sole defensive ability of not being able to be seen easily.
I've still got a Revell 1:72 modelkit sitting around. 10 year old me thought it didn't need paint because the plastic was black 😂
Probably my third ever model I made, and the aircraft that got me hooked!
I got to see an f-117 in person at the Palm Springs air museum. Honestly one of the neatest looking aircraft I’ve ever seen.
Guide on how to fly the F-117 correctly in ground RB
This is a stealthplane and it has no defences so fly it like one
Climb as high as you can
But stay below the altitude where contrails appear. The contrails will make you very easy to detect.
And make sure to climb away from the battlefield 16km+ is recommended
Then turn towards the battle and use your good optics to scout for enemy SPAA
This is for a few reasons
1. If you bomb something when they have active SPAA players they will try shoot you down
2. You have limited ordanance so killing enemy SPAA will actually have the largest impact on the opposing team since they are likely low on spawn points and killing them will effectively remove 1 player from their team for the rest of match.
3. You can do this relatively safely and clear the way for your teams more hard hitting CAS
If there are no enemy SPAA in sight bomb the highest priority target (this might lead to a very angry and aware SPAA appearing on opposing team)
After a strike run keep going straight fly away from the battlefield
again the same 16km distance is recommended before turning around
Have a bind set for closing the bomb bay because having it open makes you easier to detect on radar
But do remember that people have eyes and they can see you even if they dont see you on radar
And if you get detected you should reset strike run and aproach from different direction
Getting detected in F117 leaves you very vulnerable. Your biggest threats being IR guided missiles, optical trackers and interceptors
Use laser guided weapons because they can hit moving targets
If you follow these steps the enemy SPAA will have a very hard time dealing with you and you will get the jump on them 90% of the time
Keep in mind that after you strike the enemy will be looking for you
The stealth will prevent them from detecting you in their radar when you approach and when you get to ranges where their radars can start to brute force through your stealth you will be above them in their blind spot
In other words they will never see you in their radars
My fav aircraft growing up? Avro Vulcan. Every time i saw it on TV or on youtube i watched videos about it for hours.
Watching the intro makes me miss the long discussion videos y'all would do about military history. Hope you do more of these intros or bring back those vids.
Bo if you haven't heard it yet, the F-117 episode on the "Fighter Pilot Podcast" has a great interview and set of stories from a retired F-117 pilot.
one of my favorite stories from the F-117's service comes out of the Yugoslav war...and no, it's not the one you think it is. I forget what night it was, but there were -117s and F-15s up, I believe attacking an airfield. Yugo MiG-29s came up to challenge them, and the F-15s...you know, being F-15s...basically went "Ah, free XP!" The issue was the F-117s were between the high F-15s and the climbing MiG-29s. This let to an amusing incident where an AIM-120 flashed past the right side of a Nighthawk, followed quickly by a nearly-supersonic Eagle.
See the TV series "Dogfights" series 2 episode 9. The F-15 drivers talked about what would happen if there were fighter in the area, as they were going to be above the F-117s. The F-117s said that wouldn't happen.
So, as you said, it DID happen, only it was 3 AIM-120s and the F-15. The key aspect was, the F-15 didn't know the F-117 was there at all, only seeing the Mig-29s taking off.
@@FinleymcgI remember that episode. Dogfights was such a great show.
All the things you listed, the lack of armamanet, slowness, no counterneasures were pretty much in the irl plane as well. Maybe more exaggerated in the game but still present. This thing was made to be stealthy, not a dogfighter or even a fighter, per se.
Bo now you know how I feel about the A-10 in Warthunder I absolutely love the aircraft but gaijin completely bungled its redundancies and I constantly get blasted by Russian and Chinese AAA right after spawning
Love the beginning with all the interesting facts. The F-117 is also something very special to me. It was my first and only model I ever had and something I have many childhood memories associated with
14:49 as a maintainer in the air force I would be pulling my hairs out if I saw a pilot fly like that due to all the inspections that would need to be done. Just more for my air frame I work on.
It makes my tism tingle when you do the informative videos
So one thing about the F117 being an F designation is because of various treaties meant the U.S. could only have a specified number of bomber aircraft. If they were to build it as a specified B117, they would have to reduce the number of bomber aircraft in the inventory to remain treaty complient. I believe they then managed to secure an air to air kill of a helicopter with some sort of bomb from the F117 allowing the military to say it is a "fighter". Thats a story I have heard and believe
If I recall it was almost entirely because the best pilots wanted the prestige of flying a fighter instead of a bomber, otherwise it probably would have gotten an Attack designation, same with the F-111, so to attract the best pilots the USAF had they fudged the designation.
I really love how you guys explain the history behind these aircraft. As both an engineer and a history nerd, it’s just awesome.
Also helps with the longer video length 😉
1st exposure to the F-117 was the RC model on a channel called RCpowers. Really interested me as a kid. Still a big tomcat fan boy though
Thank you for the dissertation/history in the beginning. Really enjoy learning more about the actual aircraft in these videos.
about 70-80 percent of people ive seen fly the F-117 just treat it like a lawn dart but that seems to be the norm these days with all planes
Fact about the F-117 and it's stealth capability. They designed the shape to be super stealthy THEN tried to make that shape flyable! The engines on this are the non-afterburner version of the F404 (F404-F1D2) engine used on the F-18 Hornet. I used to overhaul these engines. Also NEVER intended to deployed as a day bombing aircraft. The reason it is called the Nighthawk. Duh!
That makes me not wanna go after it, but it’s such a greater craft in real life
Honestly I don't feel like it was done dirty in WT, its performance feels accurate enough to real life. The issue is that war thunder is completely not designed around any sort of stealth bombing at all. The game design favours dogfights and SPAA, bombing targets are few and far between on a huge hairball dogfight in broad daylight. We already know bombers in the game have been suffering for forever because of the game design shafting them, the f117 really didn't need to be in this game and has no real role in war thunder.
Best part of updates is seeing y’all play them
this will be nice in Sim at a br where you can see and laze things others can't
Question I have now is at what range does a 117 player name show up to the enemy? 'What's stealthy about it when everyone can see your name ten miles out' was one of my first thoughts when I heard the 117 was being added.
And probably the worst part is since it only has 2 2000lb bombs, you're a sliver away from destrying a base on your own
you should have no nametag when u fly this as stealth aspect in air rb
or at least a greatly reduced nametag range
The Wobblin' Goblin didn't fly well in real life. If it wasn't for all of the computers, it wouldn't get off the ground.
I mean it flew well because of the computers
Loved the little history lesson at the beginning, Bo! I thought I knew a fair bit about the F-117 already, but I had no idea about the lone fighter version. That is really cool. Shame it didn't work out. This video however really did work out!! I feel all your effort and pain was worth it! Thanks for the content, fellas!
Thanks for the history and intro at the start, love seeing it.
The plane should be near invisible from most angles except for directly above or below and IR missiles should not be as effective against as they are. The only time it should be visible is when its bomb bay is open and that’s only open for a split second as it’s designed to drop the bomb as soon as it opens. I Love the plane but it is definitely not as effective as its real life counterpart. I think the plane should definitely be buffed because it is lacking in game currently.
Can we get an ongoing competition in TBLF to see who can be the most creative with the Bo decal? @The_Zuit is already ahead by... four points?
Can’t wait to watch the hide and seek with the 117
Please don't talk about whisky. I'm trying not to smoke anymore, which means I also can't drink most hard liquor, because that will make me smoke lol
Praying for your efforts to be fruitful 👍🏽
@@Leonidas1210vc Yeah so am I lol. Thanks.
I think we're seeing the limitations of WT's game engine when it comes to stealth aircraft
love these kind of videos where you go over the history and other tid bits.
A guy I work with was working construction one summer with his dad on this guys house and found out he was a pilot of the Nighthawk when the plane was NEW. Said it was an interesting conversation and he got a challenge coin from the guy before the job was done. Love the video Bo!
4:50 i thought it was confirmed that those were f22's and they were testing how well it used paveways or something of the like.
11:40 The Dutch had an orange F16 with a lion painted on it, wish it was in game
Great video Bo! Loved getting the history of the plane in the beginning, and your thoughts on it in game!
The story I saw about why the 117 was used in 17 was because of the laser designation system. There wasnt an equal to it at the time for other aircraft.
Ok Bo, we got an f-117. Now we need the f-15e or at least the f-15i
see the stealth has one use case in air RB, the Vautour IIN late, which has the lowest BR radar missiles in the game, at 8.3
I remember getting models and toys of this aircraft...iconic airplane of my childhood and I don't care if it's good in game I love it
i’m still gonna get it even if it’s bad. I had a little toy F-117 as a kid and have loved it since
I have no idea how people struggle with this plane, i played a lot of games already killed around 30 tanks, shot down twice, 1 time by a ir aa and on time by a plane. What Bo said in the video makes zero sense, one of the best things about the plane is that it spawns overspeeding, meaning you can climb really really fast, i spawn turn to the left and climb to 5k then drop my 2 bombs, get 2 kills, and repeat. prob one of the easiest planes ive ever played in grb.
Well it doesn't have defensive armament because it is for one a bomber and two it has steath capabilities and i assume that having extras would be a challenge.
7:20 Mr Bo! this test was a mild mistake in that you were using auto-select-guidance on the Strela! aka the game decides on if you should optically track or IR track, as it was a clear sky the missile switched to the much-longer (and unjammable) optical tracking which negates F-117's stealth! (also, in Air RB, enemy AI ground targets spot you for the enemy team)
(also fun fact, did you know that *technically* there were two F-117s shot down by that SPAA commander? they shot a second one a few weeks later, it managed to get back to base but was so badly damaged it was scrapped on site and sent back to the USA in parts for analysis. because it didn't crash/explode after the initial hit they were never credited with the kill)
Technically is didnt get shot down if it made it back to base, written off yes shot down no
@@biomike01 if a plane is written off from damage and performs a crash landing, yes that's a shootdown.
@@sydney4814 It did not crash land, it got back to base safe and sound but the damage made it not worth repairing
Think of it like a cars transmission breaking so it cant go over 3rd gear, ya it still works in gears 1-3 but you are going to want to get that replaced or it could break entirely
The F-117 also is supposed to have a much smaller IR signature, but gaijin hasn't taken that into consideration. Realistically it should be hard to lock it with anything but a very good all aspect missile. Not to mention its still very easy for radar SPAA to lock it despite the stealth.
Bo you have to have use the f117 in hide and seek please I’m begging
Better still give strums a f117
Think how many time Bo will be scared
finally....Bo's back in a plane again ❤
0:28 I too am of the nighthawk t-shirt generation and I’m pretty sure I wore one.
11:40 Speaking of giant flags slapped on planes, the JASDF has (or had) an F-15J with the Australian flag covering almost the entire top of the left wing (JASDF F-15J, 303 Sq Japan and Australia Joint Training 'Bushido Guardian' 2023
Given air RB marks players with a nameplate, stealth aircraft basically can't work in the mode.
They could make all f117’s not have a nametag, like inground rb/sim, but for all gamemodes, artificially stralthifying it
The funny thing is that IRL the radars will see you but can´t lock you. apparently in wt is exactly the oposite.
I didn't want them adding this, primarily because of how cool it really was; there's no way for that to translate in to War Thunder, and it ends up just being pointless. So we get another example of something American that in real life is or was outfuckingstanding, but ingame is practically pointless.
Fun fact the geometric shape was actually found in a Russian archive. And that also contributed to its shape. Just because" it's officially retired ". Doesn't mean the milatery will never use it again. We've pulled and used WW2 battle ships out of retirement.
I would love to see a video on the StuH 42 G once your done with the update vehicles
Funny story about the development of the Nighthawk. They made a very large, but not 1:1 scale of the aircraft and tested it on a radar range where they bombard objects with radar to measure its radar cross section. When the test started, they started the radars on a very high setting where they can get as many returns as possible and aimed it squarely at the model. They immediately got a blip back and the engineers were very disappointed. When they looked back onto the test range, they realized a bird had landed on the model itself and was what the radar was detecting. The model itself was so stealthy, it was only visible on radar if a bird landed on it.
A Heyo Bo hope you’re having a good day, week. Your hard work is much appreciated and keep up the great work :D. And to the friends of Bo, much appreciation from my side for helping Bo produce content and being great friends.
I will try to keep consistency with commenting this giant list of tanks, but other than that great video Bo! (DISCLAIMER: Some vehicles have been done so excuse the double input).
Like always, the choice Is yours!
America: M4A3E2/ M4A3E2 (76) W, T14, M56, M50, T26E5, T26E1-1, T34, M46, M47, M103, T95, M728 CEV, M6A2E1, T54E2, T54E1, M551, M3 Bradley, XM803, LAV-AD, M1128, CCVL, HSTV-L
Germany: 15cm sIG 33 B Sfl, VFW, KW II 754 (r), DF105, Radkampfwagen 90, Leopard 2K, Gepard, Wiesel 1A2, VT1-2, Maus, Turm III, Raketenautomat, TAM-2C, Panther II, Tiger II H/ Tiger II (H) Sla.16, Jagdtiger,
Russia: KV-1 (L-11), T-34-85 (D-5T), KV-2 (1939), SU-100Y, KV-220, T-34-100, T-44-100, BTR-ZD, M53/59, 2S3M, ASU-85, T-54 (1951), IS-3, IS-4M, SU-122-54, Object 268, IS-6, Object 120, T-10A/T10M, TO-55, IT-1, Object 775, T-55AMD-1, BMP-3, BMD-4, BMP-2M, Object 292, IS-7, Object 279, PT-76-57
Great Britain: Matilda III, AEC MK II, Churchill Crocodile, Skink, FV4005, Falcon, Conway, Conqueror, Centurion Mk.5 AVRE, Rooikat 105/MTTD, ZA-35, Bhishma TWMP, Black Night
Japan: Chi-Ha Short Gun, Chi-Ri-II, Chi-Ha LG, Ho-Ri Prototype/ Production, Type 87 RCV, Type 74 (F)/ Type 74 (E)/ Type 74 (G), TXK (P), Type 16, Type 75 MLRS, TKX/Type 10, Type 60 SPRG, Type 93
China: Object 122MT, ZBD04A, ZLT11, PGZ09,
Italy: Breda 501, AUBL/74 HVG, FIAT 6614, R3 T20 FA-HS, C13-90, R3 T160 FA, VCC-80/60, OF-40 MTCA (recently got DM33), Centauro I 120, OTOMATIC, Leopard 1A5 (The Italian Leopard is the only Leopard variant that features a Laser Warning Receiver)
France: 2C Bis, E.B.R (1954), Somua SM, AMX-50 Foch, AMX-10RC, MEPHISTO, Lorraine 40t, AMX-Surblindé, AMX-50 (TO90/930), AMX-32 (120)/ AMX-40, LecLerc’s (Any variant)
Israel: Magach Hydra, Namer 30
New vehicles from update: PLZ05 (166mm penetration of HVAP HE), JA37DI (either pack or tech tree), T77E1 (A Texan must love his .50 cals), Super Hind, Bmp-2MD
I love that historical intro to the video, wish you'd do more historical focused stuff in full length. I used to watch your plane specific videos back in the day (side chat podcast) and I adored the series so much!
I feel like it needs a fighter escort in air RB, and for ground ....hope for clouds
Ngl, seems very hard to play, but cool to see that the stealth thing is implemented in game.
I’ve been to the Kalamazoo air zoo and they have some pretty cool stuff on display I don’t know if they changed some stuff around cause I haven’t been in a while
Gaijin, give the F-117 a bomber spawn!
Favourite plane growing up was... hmm. Honestly, I love the look of the F-106 and the F-5E. Those two just... *chef's kiss.* A-10 is right up there too.
In any case...
Should you be near (or going to) either the USAF Museum in Dayton, or the Kalamazoo Air Zoo in Michigan - and if the latter, *go to the restoration shop, both to see this and just to see the cool stuff they have* - you can see an F-117. The one in Kalamazoo's the only private one, as I recall (and they had to do some scrounging while restoring to simulate all the stuff that had to be taken off. it's really fascinating.) (Edit - posted that before watching, great that youv'e been to kalamazoo!)
The USAF museum, of course, also has the YF-23 (*gorgeous*) and the X-32 (Not... quite so gorgeous,) among other things. Plan two days, I was rushing through that last hangar!
How have you never done an M3A3 bradley video at all? I was looking for one the other day and couldnt find anything lol its such an uncommon tank
Between BONEs Spooky and the Nighthawk, we really had some kick ass bringers of "dead of night" back in the day, B2 had a lot to live up to, and the 21 will continue the legacy
The F-117 is in the same place as strategic bombers. There is no way to make them work in the current game and never should have been added, or should have their own game mode
so it's literally a low-poly plane
30:21 missed the perfect opportunity to say “train tracks? More like PAIN tracks!”
I have been thinking for a while that air rb for high teir should have air spawns for certain aircraft.
I think an easy assist for this plane in the air combat matches is simple: No name or player marker. Visual spotting only, no target information. It is after all a stealth plane.
Great thumbnail Mr. Bo
americans paint an american flag on the bottom of their plane, the dutch make an entire leopard tank orange
I like that they added this unique plane but wish it was just slightly lower in BR. Great video Bo and co.
this aircraft does only 1 thing, and does it well. high altitude precision bombing
I heard they're flying them as red air, to train jet folks on how low obs enemies look on radar.
The OG stealth fighter
I remembered The F-117 flying at the Willow Grove Aire Show.
great video bo thank you for the high bitrate love it