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Another reason why it might have been used in Syria is that there were a lot of Russian aircraft also in the area which would’ve loved to point their radars at something like an F-35 to see what its RCS actually looks like, but with the F-117 being old tech (still capable if doing the job required in that particular theatre) it was less of a security risk.
The theory running around New Mexico (where the F-117s live), is they're being used as OpFor trainers too. It's probable the F-117 has comparable stealth characteristics to the latest Chinese stuff.
I love the f-117, the a-10c (I have both in toy collectable form) and the f-14b which is on display near a veteran's memorial near my place. Although I may not agree with how WT handles these aircraft but I'm still happy to see them 😊
Well this should work amazingly in Warthunder, what with it usually being daylight, and in all air modes except sim you have a bright red name over your head… that’s not going to affect the stealth at all…
It's also at a BR in which it's too low to face any of the radars it was designed to combat, making it's stealth design entirely pointless, but is also too high a BR to be able to carry enough bombload to actually take out the bases. It's a stealth bomber that can't stealth or bomb. Classic Gaijin to make another iconic American plane just another useless sitting duck in the skies by forcing them into the worst possible situations they could ever imagine being in. Like an F-117 stealth night bomber put in broad daylight against planes without radar, or the A-10 being forced to fly in VERY heavily occupied airspace without cover, or the B17 flying solo without a formation.
@@ScientistMan96 It's a Stealth Attack Aircraft. Not a Stealth Bomber, as even engineers mention it should have had the A designation for Attacker. It's not meant for killing bases, it's meant for going after ground targets like pillboxes in air rb.
There’s a story out of the build up for desert storm of the US requesting permission to fly a couple of tankers through a country’s air space (I think it was Greece). Well they sent a couple of planes up to investigate why a couple of tankers were flying through in the dead of night. It was quickly determined that they were being escorted by a couple of nighthawks
Escorted is a big word, considering that anything F-117 could do to other aircraft would be ramming into it (if by miracle it would be slower than F-117)
@@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933 Yep. Not surprised. Probably buy into the myth that the F-117 stealth doesn't actually work because one got shot down that one time, and then never again.
I think the biggest issue is war thunder doesn't exactly encourage you to use these like they're intended, at the short ranges that War Thunder CAS operates at the F-117 would still be a pretty easy target even irl, if matches lasted longer and were on larger maps that encouraged players to be flying at altitudes of 30,000+ feet then it would probably be a pretty capable vehicle even with the limited payload.
Guide on how to fly the F-117 correctly in ground RB This is a stealthplane and it has no defences so fly it like one Climb as high as you can But stay below the altitude where contrails appear. The contrails will make you very easy to detect. And make sure to climb away from the battlefield 16km+ is recommended Then turn towards the battle and use your good optics to scout for enemy SPAA This is for a few reasons 1. If you bomb something when they have active SPAA players they will try shoot you down 2. You have limited ordanance so killing enemy SPAA will actually have the largest impact on the opposing team since they are likely low on spawn points and killing them will effectively remove 1 player from their team for the rest of match. 3. You can do this relatively safely and clear the way for your teams more hard hitting CAS If there are no enemy SPAA in sight bomb the highest priority target (this might lead to a very angry and aware SPAA appearing on opposing team) After a strike run keep going straight fly away from the battlefield again the same 16km distance is recommended before turning around Have a bind set for closing the bomb bay because having it open makes you easier to detect on radar But do remember that people have eyes and they can see you even if they dont see you on radar And if you get detected you should reset strike run and aproach from different direction Getting detected in F117 leaves you very vulnerable. Your biggest threats being IR guided missiles, optical trackers and interceptors Use laser guided weapons because they can hit moving targets If you follow these steps the enemy SPAA will have a very hard time dealing with you and you will get the jump on them 90% of the time Keep in mind that after you strike the enemy will be looking for you The stealth will prevent them from detecting you in their radar when you approach and when you get to ranges where their radars can start to brute force through your stealth you will be above them in their blind spot In other words they will never see you in their radars
Agreed. Growing up, the F-117 was a little boy’s dream plane. Seeing it at a young age, we knew there was no way it could be touched… then we grew up and realized its just a bomb truck and not an actual fighter. That was a major let down lol. Still the coolest designs for an aircraft ever though.
@@rcrawford42I think that was a high brass decision. They felt like people would be more likely to want to try out this new aircraft if it was a "fighter" instead of a "bomber"
But imagine the look on their faces when they saw "GBU-27 Pave Way (F-117)" in their kill feed! Thanks for sticking with this, it was very entertaining for a non-player!
One of the guys who worked on the f117 precursor (Lockheed Martin's "Skunk Works" division) came to my school and talked about that stuff with the flat panels. Flat panels dump radar waves at the sharp angles, so they designed the angles in a way to mostly reflect all radar way from where a dish would be located. (Behind it, not below it?) He also talked about working on the first "stealth boat" (IX-529 Sea Shadow). It was incredibly cool. The boat was so invisible to radar, they had to add radar noise out the top because you'd be watching down into the ocean from a plane and see a black mark where no emissions at all came back unlike the random fluctuations from the water. It was raised off the ground and had two counter-rotating propellers that cancelled any wake (kind of like The Hunt for Red October).
Yeah, the sharp angles are about directing radar waves away from the the receiver at extreme angles, not the quality of computer tech at the time. I assume from the way that the angles flow that the goal was to bounce the waves upwards on the top and past the F-117 continuing away from the radar with the flat bottom. Even the B-2 and F-35 have similar sharp angles to them for the same reason. You can think of it like with the rounded edges and plates of tanks. The radar wave is like an incoming round, and curved edges always have a place where the curve is completely perpendicular to the incoming wave/round. With a shell, this nullifies the benefit of angled armor if it manages to hit that spot, while with radar it increases the amount of radar waves that bounce directly back to the receiver and increases the size of the radar signature.
I like the F117 for the same reason I like the F15. There're so many cool stories about their development and time in service that they really stand out to me.
If youre reffering to tracking vs search radar, I think its an interesting debate since often times they use different bands for search and track, one obvious such example is the Pantsir with F and K bands for the radars respectively (which is why the tracking radar is invisible to a lot of RWRs, although they could be adjusted on more modern jets to include it in their perceived threats sensors which is why I'm against the current shenanigans with it) but if you're referring to the mistake they made when talking about the Strela, the sensor on top of it is a RANGING radar, not a tracking one, which is because optically the Strela can lock on to F117, which might have been what Bo was a bit mistaken about too, since he had his lock mode to automatic, which checks for both options to see which one can get a clearer lock, so he might have been locking on optically rather than the IR signature. EDIT: it has come to my attention that its also has a PASSIVE radar receiver, namely 9S16 Flat Box RF Passive Detection System (the little box thingy above the driver's optics) which is essentially a ground rwr which automatically cues the TELAR linked to the system to the direction of the source of the signal. It also allows the Strela to have advanced warning about aircraft vaguely pointed in their direction, forcing them to keep their radars off.
Actually it is search radars tend to use longer wavelengths which carry batter over distance and have better ability to detect stealth aircraft tracking radars tend to use lower wavelengths for higher fidelity but lower wavelengths have a harder time detecting stealth
@@jameson1239 I have subscribed two channels - one from a PATRIOT system instructor and one from a defense journalist - from where I have learned a fair bit about radars while true that lower frequency radar's can detect the presence of something in the air, it simply does not produce a strong enough signal to lock onto targets so if you have a older type radar working on low-frequency you will, every time the radar antenna completes a full revolution, see a blip coming closer and closer at Mach 0.8, but you still won't be able to lock onto it
About a month ago I went to Hill AFB Aerospace museum and was able to see the F-117 up close. I was way way excited to see such a cool plane up close, it made my month.
As someone who stopped playing warthunder back in 2020 I have to admit it’s incredibly satisfying watching you laser a target with the F117 watch the bomb bay deploy and watch it reach its target. I know you suggested that a nice change for Air RB for the plane would be an air spawn instead of having to take off. Though I find another change that could work is that the plane itself does not show a player target icon in Air RB until you are at a certain distance to the aircraft. This I think would help with the intent of the aircraft which is to avoid detection whilst still keeping it balanced since the plane does not have any means to defend itself.
So one thing about the F117 being an F designation is because of various treaties meant the U.S. could only have a specified number of bomber aircraft. If they were to build it as a specified B117, they would have to reduce the number of bomber aircraft in the inventory to remain treaty complient. I believe they then managed to secure an air to air kill of a helicopter with some sort of bomb from the F117 allowing the military to say it is a "fighter". Thats a story I have heard and believe
If I recall it was almost entirely because the best pilots wanted the prestige of flying a fighter instead of a bomber, otherwise it probably would have gotten an Attack designation, same with the F-111, so to attract the best pilots the USAF had they fudged the designation.
I used to play the heck out of F-19 Stealth Fighter game right before the F-117 became public knowledge, so I also have a particular nostalgia for this plane.
So I'm guessing the Air RB system of showing enemy combatant names kind of ruins the planes sole defensive ability of not being able to be seen easily.
A little condensed history lesson of the F-117, out of all F-117 produced one was shot down, this happened during the Serbian war. The reason why the F-117 was shot down was during its bombing campaign against Serbia, one night a few F-117 took off from their base to bomb enemy targets. This base however was being spied on, and also due to F-117 only being allowed to fly a certain path, the Serbians knew the general location the F-117s would be flying in. So one SAM placement was watching the radar for the planes to appear, but nothing appeared on radar and so the radar guy (sorry I don’t know the proper terminology) kept turning his radar on and off every few radar cycles and it just so happened when he turned on his radar the F-117 had its bomb bays open, meaning the plane lost it’s stealth ability and was now low visibility. So the radar guy spotted the F-117 and fired two ground to air missiles, one missed the F-117 but the other hit the plane. Lucky the pilot was able to eject and was saved by American forces.
Whenever this story is mentioned, it always results in some kind of argument about incompetence or poor engineering etc, but I'd say it really speaks to the strengths on both sides: the merits of the plane to be basically completely invisible, despite the radar operators KNOWING that they were there, whilst the Serbian planning and intelligence gathering that allowed the much less sophisticated assets (like air defence and intelligence equipment) being able to come together to shoot the plane down.
Honestly the story about the SAM battery commander and how they modified the radars a bit and the tactics they used to keep the site alive under intense American SEAD activity is pretty amazing.
one of my favorite stories from the F-117's service comes out of the Yugoslav war...and no, it's not the one you think it is. I forget what night it was, but there were -117s and F-15s up, I believe attacking an airfield. Yugo MiG-29s came up to challenge them, and the F-15s...you know, being F-15s...basically went "Ah, free XP!" The issue was the F-117s were between the high F-15s and the climbing MiG-29s. This let to an amusing incident where an AIM-120 flashed past the right side of a Nighthawk, followed quickly by a nearly-supersonic Eagle.
See the TV series "Dogfights" series 2 episode 9. The F-15 drivers talked about what would happen if there were fighter in the area, as they were going to be above the F-117s. The F-117s said that wouldn't happen. So, as you said, it DID happen, only it was 3 AIM-120s and the F-15. The key aspect was, the F-15 didn't know the F-117 was there at all, only seeing the Mig-29s taking off.
Fact about the F-117 and it's stealth capability. They designed the shape to be super stealthy THEN tried to make that shape flyable! The engines on this are the non-afterburner version of the F404 (F404-F1D2) engine used on the F-18 Hornet. I used to overhaul these engines. Also NEVER intended to deployed as a day bombing aircraft. The reason it is called the Nighthawk. Duh!
That describes most modern jets. Fly by wire systems keep the F-16 in the air as well, for example. I remember somebody mentioning when the first F-4 was released in the game that somebody (I think from the UK) remarked about the plane when the US first deployed them that "America has a knack for making things that shouldn't fly, fly."
Funny story about the development of the Nighthawk. They made a very large, but not 1:1 scale of the aircraft and tested it on a radar range where they bombard objects with radar to measure its radar cross section. When the test started, they started the radars on a very high setting where they can get as many returns as possible and aimed it squarely at the model. They immediately got a blip back and the engineers were very disappointed. When they looked back onto the test range, they realized a bird had landed on the model itself and was what the radar was detecting. The model itself was so stealthy, it was only visible on radar if a bird landed on it.
Love the beginning with all the interesting facts. The F-117 is also something very special to me. It was my first and only model I ever had and something I have many childhood memories associated with
Watching the intro makes me miss the long discussion videos y'all would do about military history. Hope you do more of these intros or bring back those vids.
I love that historical intro to the video, wish you'd do more historical focused stuff in full length. I used to watch your plane specific videos back in the day (side chat podcast) and I adored the series so much!
Loved the little history lesson at the beginning, Bo! I thought I knew a fair bit about the F-117 already, but I had no idea about the lone fighter version. That is really cool. Shame it didn't work out. This video however really did work out!! I feel all your effort and pain was worth it! Thanks for the content, fellas!
I really love how you guys explain the history behind these aircraft. As both an engineer and a history nerd, it’s just awesome. Also helps with the longer video length 😉
I mean, the F-117 is basically ancient history, you can probably just find publicly available blueprints, or they may have even just scanned a museum piece to make a 3D model.
@@bilalsadiq1450 What I'm referring to is the restricted documents that were leaked on the War Thunder forums a while ago that included stuff like sensor locations.
A guy I work with was working construction one summer with his dad on this guys house and found out he was a pilot of the Nighthawk when the plane was NEW. Said it was an interesting conversation and he got a challenge coin from the guy before the job was done. Love the video Bo!
6:36 wasn’t the one shot in yugoslavia done so because the pilot kept the bomb bay open for too long unlike the other aircraft performing the mission (hence why only that one was shot down)
Wobblin' Goblin is by far my fav aircraft - Also fun fact, the Engine cooling and stealth is so good on the F117A that you can track it over the ocean because it is actually "cooler" that the ocean on IR - But in Desert Storm it flew 1500 missions with no losses
I've still got a Revell 1:72 modelkit sitting around. 10 year old me thought it didn't need paint because the plastic was black 😂 Probably my third ever model I made, and the aircraft that got me hooked!
14:49 as a maintainer in the air force I would be pulling my hairs out if I saw a pilot fly like that due to all the inspections that would need to be done. Just more for my air frame I work on.
Bo now you know how I feel about the A-10 in Warthunder I absolutely love the aircraft but gaijin completely bungled its redundancies and I constantly get blasted by Russian and Chinese AAA right after spawning
Honestly I don't feel like it was done dirty in WT, its performance feels accurate enough to real life. The issue is that war thunder is completely not designed around any sort of stealth bombing at all. The game design favours dogfights and SPAA, bombing targets are few and far between on a huge hairball dogfight in broad daylight. We already know bombers in the game have been suffering for forever because of the game design shafting them, the f117 really didn't need to be in this game and has no real role in war thunder.
@@derpychicken2131 I've been saying this for 10 years at this point about various parts of the game. The game's biggest enemy is its design. They've never been able to make bombers fun in air battles, and I don't know if they've ever even tried. Helicopters still don't have their own gameplay mode outside of the event, and how long have they been in the game. From the furballs of air RB to the knife fights with artillery guns over capture points and laser rangefinders sniping people in spawn from across the map while you die to CAS weapons you can't do anything about, the game just isn't designed for a lot of what we have access to.
6:25 use smth with a stinger too, you can lock it from farther than it says in the stinger’s stat card. I’m pretty sure they took its stealth and IR away too, it’s like a F14A with the hit engines, they should restore it to what it was back on the final dev server or when it was at its peak
Got a poster of the F-117 from the book fair when I was in elementary school. 2004ish. I still have it and I will always have it on my wall no matter where I live.
Between BONEs Spooky and the Nighthawk, we really had some kick ass bringers of "dead of night" back in the day, B2 had a lot to live up to, and the 21 will continue the legacy
The F-117 also is supposed to have a much smaller IR signature, but gaijin hasn't taken that into consideration. Realistically it should be hard to lock it with anything but a very good all aspect missile. Not to mention its still very easy for radar SPAA to lock it despite the stealth.
The story I saw about why the 117 was used in 17 was because of the laser designation system. There wasnt an equal to it at the time for other aircraft.
Bo, i was at the KazooAzoo the year we had a B2 coming back and were given permission to do a fly over late 90s in broad daylight back when seeing one of those at all was considered a miracle. If i remember correctly it was coming back from bringing freedom to someone.
11:40 Speaking of giant flags slapped on planes, the JASDF has (or had) an F-15J with the Australian flag covering almost the entire top of the left wing (JASDF F-15J, 303 Sq Japan and Australia Joint Training 'Bushido Guardian' 2023
I think an easy assist for this plane in the air combat matches is simple: No name or player marker. Visual spotting only, no target information. It is after all a stealth plane.
Fun fact the geometric shape was actually found in a Russian archive. And that also contributed to its shape. Just because" it's officially retired ". Doesn't mean the milatery will never use it again. We've pulled and used WW2 battle ships out of retirement.
The thing that most War Thunder players forget about , is that this Plane was designed to destroy key assets , like AA , Radar , hangars , and so on to open the door for the following like B 52 and F 18 etc . This thing was never meant to level whole football fields , that was the job for the other two
I as a munitions guy got to work with the 117 during the initial invasion to Iraq. I saw one of the targets the pilot was given as he climbed into the jet (he showed us). We then went to midnight chow and the news network had that building in its camera view and I got to watch the strike live eating dinner.
The F-117 is in the same place as strategic bombers. There is no way to make them work in the current game and never should have been added, or should have their own game mode
I've actually consistently gotten a minimum of 2 kills every time i spawn with one. The trick is to fly as high as you can with the spawn velocity, and always remember to only keep the bomb bay open for as long as it takes to drop the bomb so SACLOS SPAA can't see you, and IR SAMs can't lock on due to the altitude
They have one at the SAC museum near Omaha ... as of a couple months ago, it has all its paint removed, which makes it look like something made in high school metalshop.
7:20 Mr Bo! this test was a mild mistake in that you were using auto-select-guidance on the Strela! aka the game decides on if you should optically track or IR track, as it was a clear sky the missile switched to the much-longer (and unjammable) optical tracking which negates F-117's stealth! (also, in Air RB, enemy AI ground targets spot you for the enemy team) (also fun fact, did you know that *technically* there were two F-117s shot down by that SPAA commander? they shot a second one a few weeks later, it managed to get back to base but was so badly damaged it was scrapped on site and sent back to the USA in parts for analysis. because it didn't crash/explode after the initial hit they were never credited with the kill)
@@sydney4814 It did not crash land, it got back to base safe and sound but the damage made it not worth repairing Think of it like a cars transmission breaking so it cant go over 3rd gear, ya it still works in gears 1-3 but you are going to want to get that replaced or it could break entirely
I'm pretty sure the first time I saw the 117 was in an ace combat game, I could 100 % be mistaking another game for AC since its been so long or it could have been a whole different fake aircraft, and it was labeled as a fighter and you could arm it with A2A and it was really fun to play. Ever since then its been burned into my brain and I love the aircraft, as bad as it may be in game I'm happy to see it continue to show up in video games.
What was your favorite plane growing up?
War Thunder Twitch Drops will be happening this weekend! I will be streaming starting at 1PM CST and through out the day over @ www.twitch.tv/botimegaming drop by and say hello!
gotta be the B-2
p 47 i think
Corsair or Lancaster, still are to this day
The B-17 Flying Fortress, P-47, and F4U.
F4U Coursair's
Gaijin: Puts the F-117A Nighthawk into the War Thunder.
War Thunder: Rarely has night battles.
Another reason why it might have been used in Syria is that there were a lot of Russian aircraft also in the area which would’ve loved to point their radars at something like an F-35 to see what its RCS actually looks like, but with the F-117 being old tech (still capable if doing the job required in that particular theatre) it was less of a security risk.
The theory running around New Mexico (where the F-117s live), is they're being used as OpFor trainers too. It's probable the F-117 has comparable stealth characteristics to the latest Chinese stuff.
....the f35 wasnt even produced at that time
@@sawyerawr5783thats public knowledge, airforce still lists them as trainers.
I love the f-117, the a-10c (I have both in toy collectable form) and the f-14b which is on display near a veteran's memorial near my place. Although I may not agree with how WT handles these aircraft but I'm still happy to see them 😊
@@sawyerawr5783 The F-117 has a very similiar radar signature to cruise missiles. They like to use them as opfor air and ground testing.
"Get High. Get REALLY High."
--Way ahead of you bud!
Well this should work amazingly in Warthunder, what with it usually being daylight, and in all air modes except sim you have a bright red name over your head… that’s not going to affect the stealth at all…
does it even have anti air missiles, it doesnt have guns so i dont think its even useful in air
@@Kaiberus It's only got the ability to load bombs, up to 2x 2000 lbs (guided or unguided)
It's also at a BR in which it's too low to face any of the radars it was designed to combat, making it's stealth design entirely pointless, but is also too high a BR to be able to carry enough bombload to actually take out the bases.
It's a stealth bomber that can't stealth or bomb. Classic Gaijin to make another iconic American plane just another useless sitting duck in the skies by forcing them into the worst possible situations they could ever imagine being in. Like an F-117 stealth night bomber put in broad daylight against planes without radar, or the A-10 being forced to fly in VERY heavily occupied airspace without cover, or the B17 flying solo without a formation.
@@ScientistMan96 It's a Stealth Attack Aircraft. Not a Stealth Bomber, as even engineers mention it should have had the A designation for Attacker. It's not meant for killing bases, it's meant for going after ground targets like pillboxes in air rb.
I think there may have been talk of giving it two sidewinders at one point, but I don't think anything came of it.
"The F-117 was my favorite plane as a kid"
Jebus I'm old, mine was the F-104.
*crys in f-104 starfighter (born december 1997 btw)
F-104 is my favorite too!
You dont need to he old to have liked an old plane, im 16 and my favourites been the phantom for as long as i can remember
Mine has always been the P-38, but I'm not THAT old!
My favorite is the spitfire mark 1 with the 8 .303 caliber machine guns and I am only 19
There’s a story out of the build up for desert storm of the US requesting permission to fly a couple of tankers through a country’s air space (I think it was Greece).
Well they sent a couple of planes up to investigate why a couple of tankers were flying through in the dead of night. It was quickly determined that they were being escorted by a couple of nighthawks
It was over austria
@ thank you, I wasn’t sure.
@@THECHEESE2023yeah sick
Escorted is a big word, considering that anything F-117 could do to other aircraft would be ramming into it (if by miracle it would be slower than F-117)
Despite being a stealth aircraft, it's anything but here in War Thunder.
Gaijin dropping the ball once again.
@@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933 Yep. Not surprised. Probably buy into the myth that the F-117 stealth doesn't actually work because one got shot down that one time, and then never again.
It's not invisible though @@tetsatou2815
@@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933How come you guys always comment under each other?
I think the biggest issue is war thunder doesn't exactly encourage you to use these like they're intended, at the short ranges that War Thunder CAS operates at the F-117 would still be a pretty easy target even irl, if matches lasted longer and were on larger maps that encouraged players to be flying at altitudes of 30,000+ feet then it would probably be a pretty capable vehicle even with the limited payload.
Guide on how to fly the F-117 correctly in ground RB
This is a stealthplane and it has no defences so fly it like one
Climb as high as you can
But stay below the altitude where contrails appear. The contrails will make you very easy to detect.
And make sure to climb away from the battlefield 16km+ is recommended
Then turn towards the battle and use your good optics to scout for enemy SPAA
This is for a few reasons
1. If you bomb something when they have active SPAA players they will try shoot you down
2. You have limited ordanance so killing enemy SPAA will actually have the largest impact on the opposing team since they are likely low on spawn points and killing them will effectively remove 1 player from their team for the rest of match.
3. You can do this relatively safely and clear the way for your teams more hard hitting CAS
If there are no enemy SPAA in sight bomb the highest priority target (this might lead to a very angry and aware SPAA appearing on opposing team)
After a strike run keep going straight fly away from the battlefield
again the same 16km distance is recommended before turning around
Have a bind set for closing the bomb bay because having it open makes you easier to detect on radar
But do remember that people have eyes and they can see you even if they dont see you on radar
And if you get detected you should reset strike run and aproach from different direction
Getting detected in F117 leaves you very vulnerable. Your biggest threats being IR guided missiles, optical trackers and interceptors
Use laser guided weapons because they can hit moving targets
If you follow these steps the enemy SPAA will have a very hard time dealing with you and you will get the jump on them 90% of the time
Keep in mind that after you strike the enemy will be looking for you
The stealth will prevent them from detecting you in their radar when you approach and when you get to ranges where their radars can start to brute force through your stealth you will be above them in their blind spot
In other words they will never see you in their radars
Step 4, the match ended 7 minutes ago.
@-tr0n it is what it is
Agreed. Growing up, the F-117 was a little boy’s dream plane. Seeing it at a young age, we knew there was no way it could be touched… then we grew up and realized its just a bomb truck and not an actual fighter. That was a major let down lol. Still the coolest designs for an aircraft ever though.
Yeah, the "F" designation was either a joke or misdirection.
@@rcrawford42I think that was a high brass decision. They felt like people would be more likely to want to try out this new aircraft if it was a "fighter" instead of a "bomber"
This plane is meant to be a stealth bomber. It gets to the battle, drops its payload, and then leaves before the enemy knew what happened.
More so a Stealth Attacker, but with the same strategy. Attack the base before the base gets alerted, then dip before they notice the plane.
But imagine the look on their faces when they saw "GBU-27 Pave Way (F-117)" in their kill feed! Thanks for sticking with this, it was very entertaining for a non-player!
Thanks for watching!
One of the guys who worked on the f117 precursor (Lockheed Martin's "Skunk Works" division) came to my school and talked about that stuff with the flat panels. Flat panels dump radar waves at the sharp angles, so they designed the angles in a way to mostly reflect all radar way from where a dish would be located. (Behind it, not below it?)
He also talked about working on the first "stealth boat" (IX-529 Sea Shadow). It was incredibly cool. The boat was so invisible to radar, they had to add radar noise out the top because you'd be watching down into the ocean from a plane and see a black mark where no emissions at all came back unlike the random fluctuations from the water. It was raised off the ground and had two counter-rotating propellers that cancelled any wake (kind of like The Hunt for Red October).
Cool
So the boat was so stealthy that they had to make it so that it actually released some radar to make it more stealthy
Yeah, the sharp angles are about directing radar waves away from the the receiver at extreme angles, not the quality of computer tech at the time. I assume from the way that the angles flow that the goal was to bounce the waves upwards on the top and past the F-117 continuing away from the radar with the flat bottom. Even the B-2 and F-35 have similar sharp angles to them for the same reason. You can think of it like with the rounded edges and plates of tanks. The radar wave is like an incoming round, and curved edges always have a place where the curve is completely perpendicular to the incoming wave/round. With a shell, this nullifies the benefit of angled armor if it manages to hit that spot, while with radar it increases the amount of radar waves that bounce directly back to the receiver and increases the size of the radar signature.
I like the F117 for the same reason I like the F15. There're so many cool stories about their development and time in service that they really stand out to me.
Today on BTG: Bo enforces a fishing licence, Zuit's squeezing into tight spaces and Stickboy tries to look pretty.
that is not how radars work
if the radar can't detect you, it cannot lock onto you just because you can visually detect the enemy
Wouldn't it depend on the kind of radar system? Many AAs have separate radar sets for searching and for tracking
If youre reffering to tracking vs search radar, I think its an interesting debate since often times they use different bands for search and track, one obvious such example is the Pantsir with F and K bands for the radars respectively (which is why the tracking radar is invisible to a lot of RWRs, although they could be adjusted on more modern jets to include it in their perceived threats sensors which is why I'm against the current shenanigans with it) but if you're referring to the mistake they made when talking about the Strela, the sensor on top of it is a RANGING radar, not a tracking one, which is because optically the Strela can lock on to F117, which might have been what Bo was a bit mistaken about too, since he had his lock mode to automatic, which checks for both options to see which one can get a clearer lock, so he might have been locking on optically rather than the IR signature.
EDIT: it has come to my attention that its also has a PASSIVE radar receiver, namely 9S16 Flat Box RF Passive Detection System (the little box thingy above the driver's optics) which is essentially a ground rwr which automatically cues the TELAR linked to the system to the direction of the source of the signal. It also allows the Strela to have advanced warning about aircraft vaguely pointed in their direction, forcing them to keep their radars off.
Actually it is search radars tend to use longer wavelengths which carry batter over distance and have better ability to detect stealth aircraft tracking radars tend to use lower wavelengths for higher fidelity but lower wavelengths have a harder time detecting stealth
@@jameson1239 I have subscribed two channels - one from a PATRIOT system instructor and one from a defense journalist - from where I have learned a fair bit about radars
while true that lower frequency radar's can detect the presence of something in the air, it simply does not produce a strong enough signal to lock onto targets
so if you have a older type radar working on low-frequency you will, every time the radar antenna completes a full revolution, see a blip coming closer and closer at Mach 0.8, but you still won't be able to lock onto it
@@armandorodrigues144 habitual line crosser and sandbox news enjoyer aswell I see
About a month ago I went to Hill AFB Aerospace museum and was able to see the F-117 up close. I was way way excited to see such a cool plane up close, it made my month.
Cool you should go to WPAFB in Ohio the museum there is AWSOME
I saw the f117 too I only wish I spent more time looking at it
As someone who stopped playing warthunder back in 2020 I have to admit it’s incredibly satisfying watching you laser a target with the F117 watch the bomb bay deploy and watch it reach its target. I know you suggested that a nice change for Air RB for the plane would be an air spawn instead of having to take off. Though I find another change that could work is that the plane itself does not show a player target icon in Air RB until you are at a certain distance to the aircraft. This I think would help with the intent of the aircraft which is to avoid detection whilst still keeping it balanced since the plane does not have any means to defend itself.
So one thing about the F117 being an F designation is because of various treaties meant the U.S. could only have a specified number of bomber aircraft. If they were to build it as a specified B117, they would have to reduce the number of bomber aircraft in the inventory to remain treaty complient. I believe they then managed to secure an air to air kill of a helicopter with some sort of bomb from the F117 allowing the military to say it is a "fighter". Thats a story I have heard and believe
If I recall it was almost entirely because the best pilots wanted the prestige of flying a fighter instead of a bomber, otherwise it probably would have gotten an Attack designation, same with the F-111, so to attract the best pilots the USAF had they fudged the designation.
I used to play the heck out of F-19 Stealth Fighter game right before the F-117 became public knowledge, so I also have a particular nostalgia for this plane.
And probably the worst part is since it only has 2 2000lb bombs, you're a sliver away from destrying a base on your own
So I'm guessing the Air RB system of showing enemy combatant names kind of ruins the planes sole defensive ability of not being able to be seen easily.
A little condensed history lesson of the F-117, out of all F-117 produced one was shot down, this happened during the Serbian war. The reason why the F-117 was shot down was during its bombing campaign against Serbia, one night a few F-117 took off from their base to bomb enemy targets. This base however was being spied on, and also due to F-117 only being allowed to fly a certain path, the Serbians knew the general location the F-117s would be flying in. So one SAM placement was watching the radar for the planes to appear, but nothing appeared on radar and so the radar guy (sorry I don’t know the proper terminology) kept turning his radar on and off every few radar cycles and it just so happened when he turned on his radar the F-117 had its bomb bays open, meaning the plane lost it’s stealth ability and was now low visibility. So the radar guy spotted the F-117 and fired two ground to air missiles, one missed the F-117 but the other hit the plane. Lucky the pilot was able to eject and was saved by American forces.
Whenever this story is mentioned, it always results in some kind of argument about incompetence or poor engineering etc, but I'd say it really speaks to the strengths on both sides: the merits of the plane to be basically completely invisible, despite the radar operators KNOWING that they were there, whilst the Serbian planning and intelligence gathering that allowed the much less sophisticated assets (like air defence and intelligence equipment) being able to come together to shoot the plane down.
Honestly the story about the SAM battery commander and how they modified the radars a bit and the tactics they used to keep the site alive under intense American SEAD activity is pretty amazing.
It makes my tism tingle when you do the informative videos
one of my favorite stories from the F-117's service comes out of the Yugoslav war...and no, it's not the one you think it is. I forget what night it was, but there were -117s and F-15s up, I believe attacking an airfield. Yugo MiG-29s came up to challenge them, and the F-15s...you know, being F-15s...basically went "Ah, free XP!" The issue was the F-117s were between the high F-15s and the climbing MiG-29s. This let to an amusing incident where an AIM-120 flashed past the right side of a Nighthawk, followed quickly by a nearly-supersonic Eagle.
See the TV series "Dogfights" series 2 episode 9. The F-15 drivers talked about what would happen if there were fighter in the area, as they were going to be above the F-117s. The F-117s said that wouldn't happen.
So, as you said, it DID happen, only it was 3 AIM-120s and the F-15. The key aspect was, the F-15 didn't know the F-117 was there at all, only seeing the Mig-29s taking off.
@@FinleymcgI remember that episode. Dogfights was such a great show.
@@furioussherman7265 Yes, got both series on DVD.
Fact about the F-117 and it's stealth capability. They designed the shape to be super stealthy THEN tried to make that shape flyable! The engines on this are the non-afterburner version of the F404 (F404-F1D2) engine used on the F-18 Hornet. I used to overhaul these engines. Also NEVER intended to deployed as a day bombing aircraft. The reason it is called the Nighthawk. Duh!
The Wobblin' Goblin didn't fly well in real life. If it wasn't for all of the computers, it wouldn't get off the ground.
I mean it flew well because of the computers
That describes most modern jets. Fly by wire systems keep the F-16 in the air as well, for example. I remember somebody mentioning when the first F-4 was released in the game that somebody (I think from the UK) remarked about the plane when the US first deployed them that "America has a knack for making things that shouldn't fly, fly."
0:28 I too am of the nighthawk t-shirt generation and I’m pretty sure I wore one.
you should have no nametag when u fly this as stealth aspect in air rb
or at least a greatly reduced nametag range
no goofy
Funny story about the development of the Nighthawk. They made a very large, but not 1:1 scale of the aircraft and tested it on a radar range where they bombard objects with radar to measure its radar cross section. When the test started, they started the radars on a very high setting where they can get as many returns as possible and aimed it squarely at the model. They immediately got a blip back and the engineers were very disappointed. When they looked back onto the test range, they realized a bird had landed on the model itself and was what the radar was detecting. The model itself was so stealthy, it was only visible on radar if a bird landed on it.
Love the beginning with all the interesting facts. The F-117 is also something very special to me. It was my first and only model I ever had and something I have many childhood memories associated with
14:18 I’ve been there
They have a P-400 hanging from the ceiling at the entrance
I remember seeing them restoring their F-117
Bo if you haven't heard it yet, the F-117 episode on the "Fighter Pilot Podcast" has a great interview and set of stories from a retired F-117 pilot.
Man I love how you give us a whole history lesson before playing, lots of cool facts about the nighthawk. Fricking awesome aircraft!
love these kind of videos where you go over the history and other tid bits.
Watching the intro makes me miss the long discussion videos y'all would do about military history. Hope you do more of these intros or bring back those vids.
about 70-80 percent of people ive seen fly the F-117 just treat it like a lawn dart but that seems to be the norm these days with all planes
I love that historical intro to the video, wish you'd do more historical focused stuff in full length. I used to watch your plane specific videos back in the day (side chat podcast) and I adored the series so much!
18:12 The Apache helicopter wasn't the only thing with a tight interior that day 👀
My fav aircraft growing up? Avro Vulcan. Every time i saw it on TV or on youtube i watched videos about it for hours.
Loved the little history lesson at the beginning, Bo! I thought I knew a fair bit about the F-117 already, but I had no idea about the lone fighter version. That is really cool. Shame it didn't work out. This video however really did work out!! I feel all your effort and pain was worth it! Thanks for the content, fellas!
Thank you for the dissertation/history in the beginning. Really enjoy learning more about the actual aircraft in these videos.
I really love how you guys explain the history behind these aircraft. As both an engineer and a history nerd, it’s just awesome.
Also helps with the longer video length 😉
I wonder if they used those documents that got leaked for the model.
Nah, those were sent to the KGB via private connections.
I mean, the F-117 is basically ancient history, you can probably just find publicly available blueprints, or they may have even just scanned a museum piece to make a 3D model.
@@bilalsadiq1450 What I'm referring to is the restricted documents that were leaked on the War Thunder forums a while ago that included stuff like sensor locations.
A guy I work with was working construction one summer with his dad on this guys house and found out he was a pilot of the Nighthawk when the plane was NEW. Said it was an interesting conversation and he got a challenge coin from the guy before the job was done. Love the video Bo!
Best part of updates is seeing y’all play them
1st exposure to the F-117 was the RC model on a channel called RCpowers. Really interested me as a kid. Still a big tomcat fan boy though
I got to see an f-117 in person at the Palm Springs air museum. Honestly one of the neatest looking aircraft I’ve ever seen.
6:36 wasn’t the one shot in yugoslavia done so because the pilot kept the bomb bay open for too long unlike the other aircraft performing the mission (hence why only that one was shot down)
Yup
No. The pilot doesn’t control the bomb bay. It got stuck.
Wobblin' Goblin is by far my fav aircraft - Also fun fact, the Engine cooling and stealth is so good on the F117A that you can track it over the ocean because it is actually "cooler" that the ocean on IR - But in Desert Storm it flew 1500 missions with no losses
I've still got a Revell 1:72 modelkit sitting around. 10 year old me thought it didn't need paint because the plastic was black 😂
Probably my third ever model I made, and the aircraft that got me hooked!
I always enjoy it when videos go into the history of a vehicle.
Ok Bo, we got an f-117. Now we need the f-15e or at least the f-15i
Thanks for the history and intro at the start, love seeing it.
14:49 as a maintainer in the air force I would be pulling my hairs out if I saw a pilot fly like that due to all the inspections that would need to be done. Just more for my air frame I work on.
Thank you TBLF for an amazing video. Bo I think this is my favorite of the year
That intro is amazing!! The second I watched it, I knew it's a 10/10 video.
Great video Bo! Loved getting the history of the plane in the beginning, and your thoughts on it in game!
I play it in Sim. Turn on control damping and keep away from where the enemy is, and it's reasonably consistent.
Bo now you know how I feel about the A-10 in Warthunder I absolutely love the aircraft but gaijin completely bungled its redundancies and I constantly get blasted by Russian and Chinese AAA right after spawning
Can’t wait to watch the hide and seek with the 117
i’m still gonna get it even if it’s bad. I had a little toy F-117 as a kid and have loved it since
That makes me not wanna go after it, but it’s such a greater craft in real life
Honestly I don't feel like it was done dirty in WT, its performance feels accurate enough to real life. The issue is that war thunder is completely not designed around any sort of stealth bombing at all. The game design favours dogfights and SPAA, bombing targets are few and far between on a huge hairball dogfight in broad daylight. We already know bombers in the game have been suffering for forever because of the game design shafting them, the f117 really didn't need to be in this game and has no real role in war thunder.
@@derpychicken2131 I've been saying this for 10 years at this point about various parts of the game. The game's biggest enemy is its design. They've never been able to make bombers fun in air battles, and I don't know if they've ever even tried. Helicopters still don't have their own gameplay mode outside of the event, and how long have they been in the game. From the furballs of air RB to the knife fights with artillery guns over capture points and laser rangefinders sniping people in spawn from across the map while you die to CAS weapons you can't do anything about, the game just isn't designed for a lot of what we have access to.
6:25 use smth with a stinger too, you can lock it from farther than it says in the stinger’s stat card. I’m pretty sure they took its stealth and IR away too, it’s like a F14A with the hit engines, they should restore it to what it was back on the final dev server or when it was at its peak
Got a poster of the F-117 from the book fair when I was in elementary school. 2004ish. I still have it and I will always have it on my wall no matter where I live.
Please don't talk about whisky. I'm trying not to smoke anymore, which means I also can't drink most hard liquor, because that will make me smoke lol
Praying for your efforts to be fruitful 👍🏽
@@Leonidas1210vc Yeah so am I lol. Thanks.
you got this, I believe in you! tbh I understand, I also had to stop drinking last year and know how that goes
@@desertwandererr7370 My issue is I psychologically attached smoking to a number of things, among them having a drink and driving (SEPARATELY lol).
"Attacked by a geometry teacher" is the best description of this plane I have ever heard.
Between BONEs Spooky and the Nighthawk, we really had some kick ass bringers of "dead of night" back in the day, B2 had a lot to live up to, and the 21 will continue the legacy
this will be nice in Sim at a br where you can see and laze things others can't
The F-117 also is supposed to have a much smaller IR signature, but gaijin hasn't taken that into consideration. Realistically it should be hard to lock it with anything but a very good all aspect missile. Not to mention its still very easy for radar SPAA to lock it despite the stealth.
Fun fact, the YF-23 also has the similar tailplane design.
I remember getting models and toys of this aircraft...iconic airplane of my childhood and I don't care if it's good in game I love it
I'd take a Nighthawk to Sim Battle since its the only mode that doesn't put a giant red label over your head.
Love the intro. This was the first plane that I was super interested in when I was young. Thanks for doing such a great intro!
I am glad you enjoyed it!
The story I saw about why the 117 was used in 17 was because of the laser designation system. There wasnt an equal to it at the time for other aircraft.
Bo, i was at the KazooAzoo the year we had a B2 coming back and were given permission to do a fly over late 90s in broad daylight back when seeing one of those at all was considered a miracle. If i remember correctly it was coming back from bringing freedom to someone.
I think we're seeing the limitations of WT's game engine when it comes to stealth aircraft
i love Zuits decals as of late. keep up the good work guys!
11:40 Speaking of giant flags slapped on planes, the JASDF has (or had) an F-15J with the Australian flag covering almost the entire top of the left wing (JASDF F-15J, 303 Sq Japan and Australia Joint Training 'Bushido Guardian' 2023
finally....Bo's back in a plane again ❤
I had a F-117 model as a kid; with open bomb-bay, and it had Aim-9s on it!
I think an easy assist for this plane in the air combat matches is simple: No name or player marker. Visual spotting only, no target information. It is after all a stealth plane.
Fun fact the geometric shape was actually found in a Russian archive. And that also contributed to its shape. Just because" it's officially retired ". Doesn't mean the milatery will never use it again. We've pulled and used WW2 battle ships out of retirement.
I like that they added this unique plane but wish it was just slightly lower in BR. Great video Bo and co.
The thing that most War Thunder players forget about , is that this Plane was designed to destroy key assets , like AA , Radar , hangars , and so on to open the door for the following like B 52 and F 18 etc . This thing was never meant to level whole football fields , that was the job for the other two
6:36 Sorry we didn’t know it was invisible 🤷♂️🇷🇸🇷🇸
The OG stealth fighter
I as a munitions guy got to work with the 117 during the initial invasion to Iraq. I saw one of the targets the pilot was given as he climbed into the jet (he showed us). We then went to midnight chow and the news network had that building in its camera view and I got to watch the strike live eating dinner.
Such a nerd start to the video absolutely love it!!!
31:42 yes 100% yes that's amazing and funny af that should be a custom skin
Another reason for the nighthawk is other laser guided bombs require ground or secondary units to lase the targets
The F-117 is in the same place as strategic bombers. There is no way to make them work in the current game and never should have been added, or should have their own game mode
I've actually consistently gotten a minimum of 2 kills every time i spawn with one. The trick is to fly as high as you can with the spawn velocity, and always remember to only keep the bomb bay open for as long as it takes to drop the bomb so SACLOS SPAA can't see you, and IR SAMs can't lock on due to the altitude
They have one at the SAC museum near Omaha ... as of a couple months ago, it has all its paint removed, which makes it look like something made in high school metalshop.
11:40 The Dutch had an orange F16 with a lion painted on it, wish it was in game
Cool ranch at the end of the day was perfect LMBO
7:20 Mr Bo! this test was a mild mistake in that you were using auto-select-guidance on the Strela! aka the game decides on if you should optically track or IR track, as it was a clear sky the missile switched to the much-longer (and unjammable) optical tracking which negates F-117's stealth! (also, in Air RB, enemy AI ground targets spot you for the enemy team)
(also fun fact, did you know that *technically* there were two F-117s shot down by that SPAA commander? they shot a second one a few weeks later, it managed to get back to base but was so badly damaged it was scrapped on site and sent back to the USA in parts for analysis. because it didn't crash/explode after the initial hit they were never credited with the kill)
Technically is didnt get shot down if it made it back to base, written off yes shot down no
@@biomike01 if a plane is written off from damage and performs a crash landing, yes that's a shootdown.
@@sydney4814 It did not crash land, it got back to base safe and sound but the damage made it not worth repairing
Think of it like a cars transmission breaking so it cant go over 3rd gear, ya it still works in gears 1-3 but you are going to want to get that replaced or it could break entirely
30:21 missed the perfect opportunity to say “train tracks? More like PAIN tracks!”
I'm pretty sure the first time I saw the 117 was in an ace combat game, I could 100 % be mistaking another game for AC since its been so long or it could have been a whole different fake aircraft, and it was labeled as a fighter and you could arm it with A2A and it was really fun to play. Ever since then its been burned into my brain and I love the aircraft, as bad as it may be in game I'm happy to see it continue to show up in video games.
I remember when people were still speculating what it looked like.
Gaijin, give the F-117 a bomber spawn!