so glad to see you guys back!! No major changes to my Custodes or Tyranids lists, but my Blood Angels definitely might put the Phobos Captain to work for redeployment shenanigans
Yeah I agree that some kind of heavy Las weapon would be good for the suppressors, the reivers really could use a change to their grapple weapon. If it gave them a bonus to advance and charge and let them ignore vertical movement and they might be fun enough to see them on the table. And I love the heavy intersessors too but I think their biggest drawback is they lack any kind of punch on the mid board if they get stuck in melee. Giving their sergeants a melee weapon would have been cool and it could have been so easy to do if they just tacked on the swords from the captain kits just giving them a chance to clear light infantry that gums them up on the mid board.
My all Phobos army is quite happy right now. I already took 10 Reivers with a Phobos Lieutenant for some backline harass. This just makes it less painful when they all die horribly because they do no damage 😂
Welcome back! I was hoping all was well in Hyperspace-land. Your ATV conversation gave me some ideas for an Oops all Bikes core... Bike Chaplain, 3x Solo ATV, 3x Outriders (6) + ATV, 2x Jump Captain+10 Jump Intercessors, 2x5 Jump Intercessors. That's just about 1600 points with 400 remaining. Stormlance seems obvious to make all the Bike units cooler, but really Lightning Assault is the buff for the Jump marines. Whereas Firestorm's Close-Range Eradication would allow the bikes to Advance all over the board every turn lighting up targets...
Hi guys. Welcome back. Love your stuff. fyi, in a Dark Angels Company of Hunters detachment, those Outriders get Battleline. That's 6 blocks of bikes and go carts. Don't know if its good, but it might be fun.
I think people are sleeping on this list because they have been bad for so long, but if you add a chaplain you get twinlink dev wounds guns. They’re cheap now so go for it!
@@chrisprime7767 they do ZERO damage in melee and in shoting , also t5 +3sv with 3w isn't some peak of resiliance. Custodes have it AND a build in inv and they are only kind of a resilient.
@@piotrjeske4599they are actually good for the points because they're tough enough to bully small objectives, and don't suffer from being infantry (anti infantry hurts marines so much) But I 100% wouldn't go all out. 1 or two squads of three at most. They're pretty nifty in firestorm with the auto max distance advance
I really appreciated the nuance in jump pack intercessors and death company where it was more for 5 per model than taking 10 - actually representative of how their points should be
ATVs stand out the most I think. I play Salamanders, and the multimelta on it with Vulkan giving rerolls could be fun. You have the chaplain on bike, outriders with an ATV as well to give devs. It's more interesting now.....but the chaplain sucks in CC and would really love a CC on the outrider Sergent.
Great to have yall back. Sure my Dark Angel Gladius list went up in points so i dropped a single unit of scouts or something and keep trucking with the same archetype. That said the Ultramarine with Gman, Uriel Ventris+Company Heroes with his "Vect" aura tucked into a building is potent. I can then surround them with ballistus + thunder strike, infiltrators to screen, and maybe a redemptor or two to benefit thay macroplasma with a +1 to wound. There's quite a bit of raw power in the book and I suspect bringing 3-5 powerful combinations+ some of the cheapest infantry will remain a good way to play SM. I'm actually enjoying the idea of squeezing Uriel+Company Heroes into an Ironstorm Ballistus and Rep Ex spam list with a thunderstrike and hail strike squeezed in. Sadly I'm still waiting for my Salamanders to get some better reason to take them over UM or divergent chapters
Glad to have you back. Ventris with +1CP aura sounds awesome. I need 2x5 terminators with characters to make a 2k list with my collection, so glad they are cheaper. Let me affairs fire discipline on my aggressor and Calgar combo. Edit: Welcome back
i thinks reviers could be nice now in a vanguard list since you get a stratagem to put in reserve either one unit or two phobos and they are the only ones with deep strike, for 75 points a unit you can easily got two unit to redeploy to do actions or put on objectives.
im new to space marines, don't know if you have made a video on it before but a video on how different units should be used or a video for lists for the different detachments would be a good watch.
As a WS player with a bike army the ATV change made me chuckle. One year plus in to 10th ed and GW still didn't explain, how they think WS should be played. If the winter errata doesn't bring some serious rules changes , then 10th is done for me.
Oh sorry to hear that, I think WS have a great play style, Very aggressive. I think the increased Transport capacity for the Impulsor did them a bit of justice as now my Bladeguard can finally fit with a character. then get out advance and charge from a pretty sizable range.
Ive seen it played with the 60 Crusader's with all the FNP and scout with all the jazz, its a bit insane. hopefully they are still strong but in a different way.
Dark angels are to blame for the fire discipline nerf, blood angels for the Vanguard Vet nerfs. I still think there’s an opportunity to have fun and win as an UM player especially with Victrix but man I’m bummed I have to write a completely new list
Imma say it but as long as you have internal seperation of chapters in Codex SM balancing everything is gonna be a lot harder to do and this update was a shining example of that.
I play BA and the codex totally messed up my list so I had to go back to the drawing board but with that I can keep the core of what I want to do the same
Hey guys, love the content. Being new to 40k and space marines, you’re a great resource. Is it possible to adjust the mics so it doesnt pick up the breathing?
We will do our best, its just a 2 man show right now so getting everything together and flowing smoothly is sometimes an issue when we are too exited for rules changes haha.
Well.... that squad was a huge problem, i saw 3x 20 in many top level lists and with the amazing character support they have and the ability to get multiple squads with 5+FNPs, i see why they needed a bump, however, it was pretty heavy handed i think.
the problem with only hitting fire discipline in gladius is that its not that busted on any other character except for the Biologis. its specifically that combo of 3 things that makes it busted. like you say you would take fire discipline for 50-60points. but that is only in that one combo, it wouldn't be worth putting on literally any other characters for that many points.
I don't play named characters, so, no, I won't be playing Big G. There are a few things I'd like to have seen get points changes that didn't (Captain -5, Company Heroes -20, Firestrike -15, Impulsor -5, Lt -5) but I can *absolutely* work with what's there.
@@hyperspacehobbies 20 due to the linked cost of them *must* having a Captain, so they already have an extra cost far in excess of their actual value. 10 would work if they were allowed to attach to a different character (Librarian, Chaplain, or LT) instead of JUST the Captain, or if they were given the (badly needed!) option of having an Apothecary join them. Heck, you could keep the cost the same if you let the Apothecary join, but that's a fingers-crossed option in December. As it stands, have you used them in games at the current cost? Most say no.
@@hyperspacehobbies it's almost like they either want to sell ballistus models Or have firstborn ready to be 100% phased out because we don't take them because there's something better
The vanguard vet nerf is because of blood angels. They ran them with a jump sang priest to make a pretty tough (T4, W2, 3+/4++/5+++) fairly hard hitting unit (+1A, S7, AP2, D1, lethal on the charge). The real joke is that they've removed jump sang priests from the new BA book, so this kills Van-vets even harder. This did not need a nerf.
Reivers with lieutenant in phobos gives you deepstrike, shoot, move "6, makes for a 3inch charge. Lethal hits, 4 attacks each, and percision. With a dice load like that they should be able to take out a leader in most infantry units with a 5 man reiver squad and a lieutenant. I think for 130 points you can make really good trades by taking out character models and removing more points then what they cost. Ran it through a simulator and at a space marine level of defense you are 3-4 wounds for all 25 attacks in that 5 man squad. So the potential is there but idk it is still rough. If you could some how give them -1ap on melee they would be leader killer's for sure as a small squad. But maybe it would be best to run them as a full squad. They will for sure get the leader then, and they could go toe to toe with the rest of the chaff.
Nah Erads are bananas. 100 points for four melta shots with full rerolls built in on durable frames isn't enough. GW has shown they are not willing to point any enhancement above 40 and being willing to take it at 55 shows that more than just the enhancement needs adjustment. The biologus is a parasitic datasheet, it compounds the output of already strong units. Two of the three units it can join have output that jump in power with this kind of support. The only unit left behind is heavy intersessors which is a useless datasheet filling a role no one needs filled
1. I think the Company of Hunters gets really buffed here. Ravenwing Command Squad, Invader ATV's and Speeders all got points cuts. Tasty! 2. Heavy Intercessors. I was already thinking of making a meme list with 60 of them. I kind of have to try it now. 3. I was already testing Mono Slaanesh. Shalaxi went down 25 points. *fist pumps*
Fire Discipline: can only be taken by a Captain. There, you can still take the sustained in Eradicators if you want, but wont get the Biologis (or other Lieutenants in other units) lethals, and on top you are adding a more expensive leader to the unit. I would have started there.
@@Darkja you can add the apoth with the captain but I agree that adding the cost of a captain would be a great fix without shunting SM best dmg dealing
Really don't agree. Most of the other detachments have a way of getting lethal, sustained combo on a 5+ it doesn't seem to be a problem. Your not removing them from taking the Biologis as well and I don't even think lethal hits on the Eradicators is the problem anyway. Eradicators have no issue punching up at S9 with full rerolls on monsters and vehicles removing it doesn't change their output much. Your just adding cost and removing options from aggressors and heavy intercessors that use fire discipline to punch up. Fire discipline is strong but it keeps Gladius a competitive detachment, price it appropriately and move on. Make the other detachments more attractive or even useful, first company. I hope that's what they are doing for the December update.
Please buff inner circle task force and unforgiven James and I’m fine with losing access to gladius! Maybe battleline to deathwing infantry or something?
I'm just waiting for the detachment tweaks this December. I'm hoping for some better play across the normal codex detachments. Granted I'm getting into Blood Angels and I'm looking forward to some great melee blendering with Khorne's favorite army.
Gladius Dark Angels will be switching to Azrael and Lieutenant with Hellblasters and skipping the Fire Disciple. You don't get the 5+ criticals but you still get sustain and lethal on 6+. Now you can save that CP that puts the unit always into Devastator Doctrine.
I think its hard to point him VS C'tan, he is a massive army buff for any unit next to him so his points are compared to what he can buff too im sure. I mean he can get you 2 oaths if you plan for it. Where the C'tan mostly just fight solo, they don't buff anything they just kick heavy amounts of booty.
@@hyperspacehobbies I understand that completely, and you're probably way more qualified than I. It's just I've seen C'tan do way more work than I've been able to pull off with Gman. I get not wanting him to be so auto include.
@charliedavis3931 Oh, he can pull off some magic, too. His ability to reserect can change the flow of a game. But ya toe to toe a Ctan is pretty intimidating.
@@hyperspacehobbies It might be a skill issue on my part. I only play Warhammer at most three times a month. I've just seen him be eliminated rather easily compared to things like C'tan which can just pop up anywhere now. Anything that takes half damage is just a nightmare to deal with. Now you got Ogryn which are just amazing point value wise. I've just hardly ever been impressed by primarchs on the battlefield.
I don’t get why the out vanguard vets went up in pts since they removed the sanguinary priest with JP which only us blood angels players can use make no sense, maybe due to angelic host detachment for blood angels since in combat you can force your opponent to attack that model for 1cp instead of another unit that’s also in engagement range
Feels bad. But the one very very small silver lining. Is heavy intercessors got a few points less. But as an imperial fists player. And a black templar player. I'm not happy with these nerfs. Black templars points keep getting jacked up every single update. It's so frustrating.
It makes me sad that with marines, you almost have to lean into building really tough units, instead of fun dmg lists. I feel like hitting the Biologis was maybe a bit too harsh.
It’s going to take more than points to get me back. It would require granular points, including gear points, no more locked squad size, bring back options for relics, psyker powers, and litanies, and bring back 9th edition style codices. Until then, I’ll just stick to old world. Fantasy was always my first love. Old World has a few rules that need to be fixed (units out of base contact being able to attack and no step up for infantry are the major problem holding them back, and my only real complaint about the game). Otherwise I think it’s nearly perfect.
I liked Poorhammer’s take on primiarchs being so cheap. Their opinion was “I want primiarch to be 500 point models, but I want them to FEEL like 500 point models” and I couldn’t agree with that more. G man and the Lion going down so much is nice as far as bringing them on the table goes, but it makes their presence feel a little lackluster.
Pricing the eradicatoes and biologis up just ruins both of those units individually. Aggressors blob now pay more for lethals Heavy intercessor blob pay more for lethals GW couldnt codex their way out of a paperbag
I would rather GW gives my primarch a datasheet that I WANT to pay 400-500 points for. These are literally the apex of their chapter and they are almost cheaper than C’Tan
Had to take a break, We both work full time and sometimes life throws some curveballs at ya, so we took a step back. but we are here now and it feels good.
Not sure why GW nerfed nu-Death Company AGAIN without even seeing how people were going to use and abuse them. Sanguinary Guard caught a discount, though, so… ok?
I just wish they would reduce the point cost of aggressors after these nerfs. That brick now costs 350 and it's not even better than the one with eradicators. And I just painted my aggressors! Booo, GW, booooooo.
I play space marines, kind of agreeing but also not agreeing here and there. 1.) Guilliman changes has been good. He's still pretty painful to bring, and i still wish they made changes to his actual kit. But as it stands, i've won quite alot with my test list of ultramarines. Since the MFM had came out. I've played 13 games. I"m currently at a 9-4 Win to Loss ratio. Which amounts to about a 69 to 70% win rate. 2.) Terminators....agreed in part, they aren't super competitive unless you're talking about Blood angels, they've been starting to use them more. The heretic chaos space marines has also started to use more terminators again. I do not personally like them. 3.) Suppressors....agreed in part, disagree in part. Suppressors do need a purchasable kit, but at 75 points, you still won't see them out on the table. Their datasheet is still pretty bad, and even further, their ability is bad. I'm going to correct you in this regard because you stated that whatever they hit, they can suppress. This is not true. They may pick one unit that they hit and they can suppress that unit. And while its good for single point targeting, its not great if you're trying to hit multiple targets. I would agree fully if they suppressed EVERY unit that they hit, but they don't. I also am predicting onslaught gatling cannons. 4.) Reivers...still garbage. You know how experienced players have learned how to screen out....and screen out hard? Your deep strikes mean nothing. You could try to hope, but even then even at the chance that you're successful to deep strike into your opponent's deployment zone, its a one and done situation. you've basically spent 75 points for a unit to deep strike and die. We DO NOT HAVE THE POINTS TO WASTE. We will get slaughtered on the table if we did this in mass. Both the suppressors and the reivers are overshadowed by a single unit that are cheap enough to get the job done, and that's the scouts. Who can be used multiple times, and even get to your opponent's deployment zone. They can also screen out or prep for a turn 1 containment. 5.) The ballistus, is good at 130 points. its tanky at those points value, good supplimental firepower for your main line long range guns, it can still die, don't get me wrong, buts you can move it around, get it around places....PIVOT.....for free. Predator tank is faster than the ballistus, but its also harder to hide, alot easier to kill, and have no built in rerolls. also the ability of the ballistus isn't rerolls if its shooting at full strength. It rerolls to hit if its shooting at something that isn't below half strength. 6.) Agreed on the phobos captain, don't care about it. Tried him out. IF his redeploy ability STILL allowed you to redeploy after learning who goes first, he's absolutely solid. Since it does't. Gross. 7.) Heavy intercessors, same boat. Don't care for these. Sure they are solid....95 points, but they are gravis so they aren't getting anywhere. I'm already using a unit to hold my home objective, and does it WAY better than the heavy intercessors. I don't see them in my list, and if i see you holding them, they'll get slaughtered cause their ability only works against damage 1. Most people are using damage 2 or above as a general base line. 8.) The ATV....still hate it, don't care. 8 wounds doesn't mean anything that its still gonna just die. Would rather just spend the extra points on scouts. 9.) Warsuit....still not a take for me. doesn't matter if they are 125 points, they are effectively a distraction carnefex. If i see it. it will die. It doesn't have enough wounds, its not necessarily fast enough to avoid getting hammered. And its not tanky enough to survive hits. Any list that has sufficient AT, and EVERY LIST that knows how it is built will. It will just die. I do not have 125 points for something that simply can't survive without it being able to dish out punishing fire back if it survives. 10.) I agree with the stormspeeders, they'll be experimented with, but i just don't have the points to waste to do so. 11.) Eradicators, i agree with the points increase, but the biologis going up to 70 points....was uncalled for....fire discipline...had no business being increased either. This feels like its being punitive because someone in the rules team got hammered by the standard eradicator bomb that was in the dark angels list. and they can't think whatsoever. Its specific, its not paying for the gladius codex compliant fire discipline. its paying for the gladius Non-codex compliant chapter fire discipline. Its specifically dark angels. JP assault intercessors i agree with the points increase, i just don't use it. VV, going up....no one cares, no one was running them. i'm guessing they are expecting Blood angels to run them alot. But regardless, i very much disagree with the fire discipline, it should not have gotten hit. We are 40% win rate faction with a detachment that has been trying to keep us even remotely in the field. and that's if we bother to reach 40%. Fire discipline should not have been hit. None of these should have been hit. But they did it because they are punitive because their rules teammate probably got hammered by this unit in a game from the dark angels, and thought "nope, that's overpowered, lets hit all of this" AN ENHANCEMENT SHOULD NOT AND MUST NOT COST THE SAME AS A UNIT. it an absurd concept to even suggest. it was fine at 30, its just going to be pushed else where. i've COMPLETEY abandoned the eradicators bomb, and gone with two lancers and a ballistus. If i see anyone attempting to use the eradicator bomb, i'll screen you out if you try to deep strike, and then shoot it to death, and that's 310 points that has failed to do anything, and you're entire army has now been severely compromised. also what is this "i'll still take it to 60, and i think its fair" Its a single enhancement that goes on a single unit, that only good in 3, now 2 different units, and if you keep HAMMERING THE THINGS THAT WE NEED, you have not done anything to assist space marines, but been dumb. the thing i've also not seen you talk about is Uriel, his strategist ability gave him a vecting ability. It makes him probably a take now. I used to not bother with him, but now, i take him in conjuncture with Guilliman and Calgar.
Im glad you guys are back. Space Marines aren't even my main army, but this channel has quickly become my favorite channel for warhammer banter.
So happy you guys are back! All I have to say is my blood angels have been eating good since the points!
Oh I bet BA are looking amazing.
@@hyperspacehobbies access to advance and charge is life changing.
Welcome baaaaaack!
Return of the KINGS
THANKS!
so glad to see you guys back!! No major changes to my Custodes or Tyranids lists, but my Blood Angels definitely might put the Phobos Captain to work for redeployment shenanigans
Glad to have a new video! Been waiting on this! God bless mates!
Glad you guys are back! Love your SM content
Yeah I agree that some kind of heavy Las weapon would be good for the suppressors, the reivers really could use a change to their grapple weapon. If it gave them a bonus to advance and charge and let them ignore vertical movement and they might be fun enough to see them on the table. And I love the heavy intersessors too but I think their biggest drawback is they lack any kind of punch on the mid board if they get stuck in melee. Giving their sergeants a melee weapon would have been cool and it could have been so easy to do if they just tacked on the swords from the captain kits just giving them a chance to clear light infantry that gums them up on the mid board.
They should also be given more than a heavy bolter per five. Surely a missile launcher would just allow them to punch up a little
Sick.
Glad to have you guys back! Keep up the good work boys.
Also, super happy to see you both back!
My all Phobos army is quite happy right now. I already took 10 Reivers with a Phobos Lieutenant for some backline harass. This just makes it less painful when they all die horribly because they do no damage 😂
I've been wondering what an Oops All Phobos army could look like and how it would deal with vehicles/monsters...
@@jonmattison3939 Steve has played an Oops all phobos with raven guard and it did pretty well so I hear.
@@jonmattison3939 I had to rope in a Gladiator Lancer for enough punch but 3 warsuits is pretty fun. They're so cheap now too! Autotake 3.
He should try oops all phobos with space qolves as the Hounds Of Morkai actually do something@@hyperspacehobbies
Thanks for saving me the time and confirming this for me. I'll just stick with Inceptors in my Vanguard for that role 😂
Was just thinking the other day where are you guys! Glad to see the boys back!!
back in action!
Cool to see you guys back. It’s because of your channel I now have an imperial fist army!!
Oh your poor wallet! hope the army is kicking butts!!!
Welcome back! I was hoping all was well in Hyperspace-land. Your ATV conversation gave me some ideas for an Oops all Bikes core... Bike Chaplain, 3x Solo ATV, 3x Outriders (6) + ATV, 2x Jump Captain+10 Jump Intercessors, 2x5 Jump Intercessors. That's just about 1600 points with 400 remaining. Stormlance seems obvious to make all the Bike units cooler, but really Lightning Assault is the buff for the Jump marines. Whereas Firestorm's Close-Range Eradication would allow the bikes to Advance all over the board every turn lighting up targets...
The boys are back in town! Love it, fellas
Hi guys. Welcome back. Love your stuff. fyi, in a Dark Angels Company of Hunters detachment, those Outriders get Battleline. That's 6 blocks of bikes and go carts. Don't know if its good, but it might be fun.
I think that Detachment is super underrated. T5 3W dudes, that are battleline speeding around the board. I'm surprised no one has done this yet haha
I think people are sleeping on this list because they have been bad for so long, but if you add a chaplain you get twinlink dev wounds guns. They’re cheap now so go for it!
@@chrisprime7767 they do ZERO damage in melee and in shoting , also t5 +3sv with 3w isn't some peak of resiliance. Custodes have it AND a build in inv and they are only kind of a resilient.
@@piotrjeske4599they are actually good for the points because they're tough enough to bully small objectives, and don't suffer from being infantry (anti infantry hurts marines so much)
But I 100% wouldn't go all out. 1 or two squads of three at most. They're pretty nifty in firestorm with the auto max distance advance
Haven’t watched the video yet, but take my upvote and appreciative comment! I’m just happy to see you back!
Glad to have you back!
I really appreciated the nuance in jump pack intercessors and death company where it was more for 5 per model than taking 10 - actually representative of how their points should be
Yes!!!! So glad you’re back!!
Love your content style. I hope y'all get to where you post more regularly.
ATVs stand out the most I think. I play Salamanders, and the multimelta on it with Vulkan giving rerolls could be fun. You have the chaplain on bike, outriders with an ATV as well to give devs. It's more interesting now.....but the chaplain sucks in CC and would really love a CC on the outrider Sergent.
Woooo, you’re back!
Glad to see you guys back
Great to have you guys back!
Wow, so happy you guys are back!
Very happy you returned.
Great to have yall back. Sure my Dark Angel Gladius list went up in points so i dropped a single unit of scouts or something and keep trucking with the same archetype. That said the Ultramarine with Gman, Uriel Ventris+Company Heroes with his "Vect" aura tucked into a building is potent. I can then surround them with ballistus + thunder strike, infiltrators to screen, and maybe a redemptor or two to benefit thay macroplasma with a +1 to wound. There's quite a bit of raw power in the book and I suspect bringing 3-5 powerful combinations+ some of the cheapest infantry will remain a good way to play SM.
I'm actually enjoying the idea of squeezing Uriel+Company Heroes into an Ironstorm Ballistus and Rep Ex spam list with a thunderstrike and hail strike squeezed in.
Sadly I'm still waiting for my Salamanders to get some better reason to take them over UM or divergent chapters
I think the CSM point changes are great 👍
Welcome back
Yay! Glad you guys are back!
Hell yes I’m playing Guilliman. But I tell you what you missed? Uriel Ventris’ new ability
OH YA! he got some changes dang!
Lets gooooo! Glad to have yall back. Hope yall are well rested and enjoying life!
We are well rested and full of the Emperors Strength!
Glad too see you back
You better keep posting. I push the subscribe button, you give me content. Thats the deal
@askewmastermind1629 Yep, thems the rules. Now we gotta post videos forever.
@@hyperspacehobbies hehehe entertainment will be miraculous!
Yayay your back!!
Glad to have y’all back! Got spoiled by those constant videos lol
well we are going to try and be consistent, you tube likes it when we do that and its more fun for us to keep the pressure on.
@@hyperspacehobbies regardless i appreciate the videos, always enjoy the content.
Glad to have you back. Ventris with +1CP aura sounds awesome. I need 2x5 terminators with characters to make a 2k list with my collection, so glad they are cheaper. Let me affairs fire discipline on my aggressor and Calgar combo. Edit: Welcome back
Good for you 🥲 *cries in Black Templar *
Glad you guys are back!!
Glad to be back
i thinks reviers could be nice now in a vanguard list since you get a stratagem to put in reserve either one unit or two phobos and they are the only ones with deep strike, for 75 points a unit you can easily got two unit to redeploy to do actions or put on objectives.
im new to space marines, don't know if you have made a video on it before but a video on how different units should be used or a video for lists for the different detachments would be a good watch.
As a WS player with a bike army the ATV change made me chuckle. One year plus in to 10th ed and GW still didn't explain, how they think WS should be played. If the winter errata doesn't bring some serious rules changes , then 10th is done for me.
Oh sorry to hear that, I think WS have a great play style, Very aggressive. I think the increased Transport capacity for the Impulsor did them a bit of justice as now my Bladeguard can finally fit with a character. then get out advance and charge from a pretty sizable range.
Im tempted now for a captain in phobos with the ghost weave cloak to give him lone op! 85pt action guy? Hell yea!
Welcome back :)
That said, Black Templars got done dirty...
Ive seen it played with the 60 Crusader's with all the FNP and scout with all the jazz, its a bit insane. hopefully they are still strong but in a different way.
Dark angels are to blame for the fire discipline nerf, blood angels for the Vanguard Vet nerfs. I still think there’s an opportunity to have fun and win as an UM player especially with Victrix but man I’m bummed I have to write a completely new list
Ya a lot of lists I have are scrambled now...
Damn I thought y'all broke up. Glad to see you back!
NEVER! haha
Imma say it but as long as you have internal seperation of chapters in Codex SM balancing everything is gonna be a lot harder to do and this update was a shining example of that.
Very true
I play BA and the codex totally messed up my list so I had to go back to the drawing board but with that I can keep the core of what I want to do the same
Thats a good attitude. sometimes you've got to resculpt the list after the big mixups.
🔥🤘❤️
agree with you about fire discipline. Aggressors are still to costly because of it. They can't just nerf all the units. Next will be hellblasters.
Hey guys, love the content. Being new to 40k and space marines, you’re a great resource. Is it possible to adjust the mics so it doesnt pick up the breathing?
We will do our best, its just a 2 man show right now so getting everything together and flowing smoothly is sometimes an issue when we are too exited for rules changes haha.
I can see a world in which someone would spam heavy Intercessors with some sort of fnp. Black templars maybe?
Iron hands with Feir Ferros ?
Heavy intercessors and maybe add some assault termies with BT fnp? Super tanky list
Woo! ORKS ORKS ORKS ORKS
@@curttaylor2861 Orks got is soooo good.
Give the phobos captain lone operative and he will get play
I was doing that with the Ghostweave Cloak in Vanguard but the LT with combi-weapon still outperforms and gives that army-wide buff.
agree the Eradicator hit hurts my firestorm list. should of just increase fire discipline
1. glad to see you guys back! 2. I know you don't play Black Templars but the Primaris Crusader squad nerf was completely uncalled for!
Well.... that squad was a huge problem, i saw 3x 20 in many top level lists and with the amazing character support they have and the ability to get multiple squads with 5+FNPs, i see why they needed a bump, however, it was pretty heavy handed i think.
the problem with only hitting fire discipline in gladius is that its not that busted on any other character except for the Biologis. its specifically that combo of 3 things that makes it busted.
like you say you would take fire discipline for 50-60points. but that is only in that one combo, it wouldn't be worth putting on literally any other characters for that many points.
Love you guys! As a sound guy with misophonia, try to eliminate breathing audio lol
HAHA yep, we have that problem I see. we will try to correct it next time, thanks for the heads up.
I don't play named characters, so, no, I won't be playing Big G.
There are a few things I'd like to have seen get points changes that didn't (Captain -5, Company Heroes -20, Firestrike -15, Impulsor -5, Lt -5) but I can *absolutely* work with what's there.
Ya firestrike should go down no doubt. Company hero's could use a drop but 20 is a big one. maybe 10?
@@hyperspacehobbies 20 due to the linked cost of them *must* having a Captain, so they already have an extra cost far in excess of their actual value.
10 would work if they were allowed to attach to a different character (Librarian, Chaplain, or LT) instead of JUST the Captain, or if they were given the (badly needed!) option of having an Apothecary join them. Heck, you could keep the cost the same if you let the Apothecary join, but that's a fingers-crossed option in December.
As it stands, have you used them in games at the current cost? Most say no.
3 ATV's incoming!
I can see Suppressors getting grav weapons as another choice
Ya someone else in the comments mentioned this, would work well AND look cool.
@@hyperspacehobbies agreed, would match the auto cannons -1ap and give them more of an anti tank option
I'd be curious, what is your ravenguard list??
130pts on Balistus VS 130pts on First born Dreadnought... what the hell???
MAKES NO SENSE!
@@hyperspacehobbies it's almost like they either want to sell ballistus models
Or have firstborn ready to be 100% phased out because we don't take them because there's something better
suppressors and incursors now affect melee as well!
Woah I missed that
WHAT! thats a big change!
@@hyperspacehobbies i know suppressors changed awhile ago but i never saw them mention it
@@hyperspacehobbies actually I’m an idiot, it stats end of phase. My bad!
@chrisgriner1054 We all get excited and mess the rules up sometimes. I talked to the Emperor he said you're forgiven.
HEH! I missed you guys so much. I figured Steve had a lot of teacher stuff to do with the new school year. Hoped everything was OK.
That was a lot of it, Ian also got a new job and its a lot of work, but we are going to try and stay consistent.
The vanguard vet nerf is because of blood angels. They ran them with a jump sang priest to make a pretty tough (T4, W2, 3+/4++/5+++) fairly hard hitting unit (+1A, S7, AP2, D1, lethal on the charge).
The real joke is that they've removed jump sang priests from the new BA book, so this kills Van-vets even harder. This did not need a nerf.
Oh thats silly. They have a hard time pin pointing the changes that need to take place.
Whooooooo! Hyperspace hobbies is back baaaabbbbbbyyyyyy
YEAAAA
Reivers with lieutenant in phobos gives you deepstrike, shoot, move "6, makes for a 3inch charge. Lethal hits, 4 attacks each, and percision. With a dice load like that they should be able to take out a leader in most infantry units with a 5 man reiver squad and a lieutenant. I think for 130 points you can make really good trades by taking out character models and removing more points then what they cost.
Ran it through a simulator and at a space marine level of defense you are 3-4 wounds for all 25 attacks in that 5 man squad. So the potential is there but idk it is still rough. If you could some how give them -1ap on melee they would be leader killer's for sure as a small squad. But maybe it would be best to run them as a full squad. They will for sure get the leader then, and they could go toe to toe with the rest of the chaff.
The time of the Mario Karts is upon us! Release the banana peal brother!
Im going to blue shell this unit..wait what does that mean, oh that's what we call oath of moment now.
Kor'Sarrio Khart
@@ghost9pm407 I... I am so impressed...
Nah Erads are bananas. 100 points for four melta shots with full rerolls built in on durable frames isn't enough. GW has shown they are not willing to point any enhancement above 40 and being willing to take it at 55 shows that more than just the enhancement needs adjustment. The biologus is a parasitic datasheet, it compounds the output of already strong units. Two of the three units it can join have output that jump in power with this kind of support. The only unit left behind is heavy intersessors which is a useless datasheet filling a role no one needs filled
Interesting point... ya biologus can be a problem too.
1. I think the Company of Hunters gets really buffed here. Ravenwing Command Squad, Invader ATV's and Speeders all got points cuts. Tasty! 2. Heavy Intercessors. I was already thinking of making a meme list with 60 of them. I kind of have to try it now. 3. I was already testing Mono Slaanesh. Shalaxi went down 25 points. *fist pumps*
Fire Discipline: can only be taken by a Captain. There, you can still take the sustained in Eradicators if you want, but wont get the Biologis (or other Lieutenants in other units) lethals, and on top you are adding a more expensive leader to the unit. I would have started there.
oooohhhh This is actually really clever. I like it.
@@Darkja you can add the apoth with the captain but I agree that adding the cost of a captain would be a great fix without shunting SM best dmg dealing
Really don't agree. Most of the other detachments have a way of getting lethal, sustained combo on a 5+ it doesn't seem to be a problem. Your not removing them from taking the Biologis as well and I don't even think lethal hits on the Eradicators is the problem anyway. Eradicators have no issue punching up at S9 with full rerolls on monsters and vehicles removing it doesn't change their output much. Your just adding cost and removing options from aggressors and heavy intercessors that use fire discipline to punch up. Fire discipline is strong but it keeps Gladius a competitive detachment, price it appropriately and move on. Make the other detachments more attractive or even useful, first company. I hope that's what they are doing for the December update.
Please buff inner circle task force and unforgiven James and I’m fine with losing access to gladius! Maybe battleline to deathwing infantry or something?
I'm just waiting for the detachment tweaks this December. I'm hoping for some better play across the normal codex detachments. Granted I'm getting into Blood Angels and I'm looking forward to some great melee blendering with Khorne's favorite army.
Suppresors with Grav guns!
This would not only be a solid gun for them it would look super cool.
I'm sorry buddy. Buy Biocary has to die for Fire Discipline's sins.
Gladius Dark Angels will be switching to Azrael and Lieutenant with Hellblasters and skipping the Fire Disciple. You don't get the 5+ criticals but you still get sustain and lethal on 6+. Now you can save that CP that puts the unit always into Devastator Doctrine.
Npw my phobos-based force is looking bad instead of just REALLY bad.
I am very curious about the rules update which I hear comes out December. I am wondering it is more tweets or a whole new rule . I.e Armor of contempt
I think Gman could go down to 270. I mean when Necrons got Ctan there's no reason to say he'd be undercoated.
I think its hard to point him VS C'tan, he is a massive army buff for any unit next to him so his points are compared to what he can buff too im sure. I mean he can get you 2 oaths if you plan for it. Where the C'tan mostly just fight solo, they don't buff anything they just kick heavy amounts of booty.
@@hyperspacehobbies I understand that completely, and you're probably way more qualified than I. It's just I've seen C'tan do way more work than I've been able to pull off with Gman. I get not wanting him to be so auto include.
@charliedavis3931 Oh, he can pull off some magic, too. His ability to reserect can change the flow of a game. But ya toe to toe a Ctan is pretty intimidating.
@@hyperspacehobbies It might be a skill issue on my part. I only play Warhammer at most three times a month. I've just seen him be eliminated rather easily compared to things like C'tan which can just pop up anywhere now. Anything that takes half damage is just a nightmare to deal with. Now you got Ogryn which are just amazing point value wise. I've just hardly ever been impressed by primarchs on the battlefield.
The youtube algorithm does not favor absence
No it does not, but sometimes you've got to take a step back and cool off, if you want to keep moving forward.
I don’t get why the out vanguard vets went up in pts since they removed the sanguinary priest with JP which only us blood angels players can use make no sense, maybe due to angelic host detachment for blood angels since in combat you can force your opponent to attack that model for 1cp instead of another unit that’s also in engagement range
Desolation squad still wasn’t touched
ya, and they took some heavy nerfs last update.
They were, actually! They lost the whole "Ignores the penalty to shooting out of LoS" thing lol
So... they actually just got nerfed again
Be, Consistent. Be, Be, Consistent!
Feels bad. But the one very very small silver lining. Is heavy intercessors got a few points less.
But as an imperial fists player. And a black templar player. I'm not happy with these nerfs. Black templars points keep getting jacked up every single update. It's so frustrating.
The points hike was crazy for Templars. I’ve been toying with the idea of starting an army too
Ya templar got hit hard.
Atvs being 60 points is bordering back on the 55 point attack bikes from legends. Two shots of a melta gun for so cheap!
It makes me sad that with marines, you almost have to lean into building really tough units, instead of fun dmg lists.
I feel like hitting the Biologis was maybe a bit too harsh.
A lot of people agree, it was a bit heavy.
It’s going to take more than points to get me back. It would require granular points, including gear points, no more locked squad size, bring back options for relics, psyker powers, and litanies, and bring back 9th edition style codices.
Until then, I’ll just stick to old world. Fantasy was always my first love. Old World has a few rules that need to be fixed (units out of base contact being able to attack and no step up for infantry are the major problem holding them back, and my only real complaint about the game). Otherwise I think it’s nearly perfect.
I liked Poorhammer’s take on primiarchs being so cheap. Their opinion was “I want primiarch to be 500 point models, but I want them to FEEL like 500 point models” and I couldn’t agree with that more. G man and the Lion going down so much is nice as far as bringing them on the table goes, but it makes their presence feel a little lackluster.
F*ck you're back ! I was wondering why my morning coffee became lame 😂
YEAAAA Coffee and nerd talk is BACK! Its our game plan to link together peoples Caffeine addiction and the sound of our voices.
Pricing the eradicatoes and biologis up just ruins both of those units individually.
Aggressors blob now pay more for lethals
Heavy intercessor blob pay more for lethals
GW couldnt codex their way out of a paperbag
Predator has less wounds than Balistus not toughness
I would rather GW gives my primarch a datasheet that I WANT to pay 400-500 points for. These are literally the apex of their chapter and they are almost cheaper than C’Tan
Cabrones, it was about time, where were you?
Had to take a break, We both work full time and sometimes life throws some curveballs at ya, so we took a step back. but we are here now and it feels good.
@@hyperspacehobbies You guys do a great job with your channel and my game improved a lot with tactics I learned here, thanks
yea its a shame that the eradicators in my salamander army are paying for the sins of others
Not sure why GW nerfed nu-Death Company AGAIN without even seeing how people were going to use and abuse them.
Sanguinary Guard caught a discount, though, so… ok?
I just wish they would reduce the point cost of aggressors after these nerfs. That brick now costs 350 and it's not even better than the one with eradicators.
And I just painted my aggressors! Booo, GW, booooooo.
As always they nerf stuff that i use and buff units that I don't,
I play space marines, kind of agreeing but also not agreeing here and there.
1.) Guilliman changes has been good. He's still pretty painful to bring, and i still wish they made changes to his actual kit. But as it stands, i've won quite alot with my test list of ultramarines. Since the MFM had came out. I've played 13 games.
I"m currently at a 9-4 Win to Loss ratio. Which amounts to about a 69 to 70% win rate.
2.) Terminators....agreed in part, they aren't super competitive unless you're talking about Blood angels, they've been starting to use them more. The heretic chaos space marines has also started to use more terminators again.
I do not personally like them.
3.) Suppressors....agreed in part, disagree in part. Suppressors do need a purchasable kit, but at 75 points, you still won't see them out on the table. Their datasheet is still pretty bad, and even further, their ability is bad. I'm going to correct you in this regard because you stated that whatever they hit, they can suppress. This is not true. They may pick one unit that they hit and they can suppress that unit. And while its good for single point targeting, its not great if you're trying to hit multiple targets.
I would agree fully if they suppressed EVERY unit that they hit, but they don't. I also am predicting onslaught gatling cannons.
4.) Reivers...still garbage. You know how experienced players have learned how to screen out....and screen out hard? Your deep strikes mean nothing. You could try to hope, but even then even at the chance that you're successful to deep strike into your opponent's deployment zone, its a one and done situation. you've basically spent 75 points for a unit to deep strike and die. We DO NOT HAVE THE POINTS TO WASTE. We will get slaughtered on the table if we did this in mass.
Both the suppressors and the reivers are overshadowed by a single unit that are cheap enough to get the job done, and that's the scouts. Who can be used multiple times, and even get to your opponent's deployment zone. They can also screen out or prep for a turn 1 containment.
5.) The ballistus, is good at 130 points. its tanky at those points value, good supplimental firepower for your main line long range guns, it can still die, don't get me wrong, buts you can move it around, get it around places....PIVOT.....for free. Predator tank is faster than the ballistus, but its also harder to hide, alot easier to kill, and have no built in rerolls.
also the ability of the ballistus isn't rerolls if its shooting at full strength. It rerolls to hit if its shooting at something that isn't below half strength.
6.) Agreed on the phobos captain, don't care about it. Tried him out. IF his redeploy ability STILL allowed you to redeploy after learning who goes first, he's absolutely solid. Since it does't. Gross.
7.) Heavy intercessors, same boat. Don't care for these. Sure they are solid....95 points, but they are gravis so they aren't getting anywhere. I'm already using a unit to hold my home objective, and does it WAY better than the heavy intercessors. I don't see them in my list, and if i see you holding them, they'll get slaughtered cause their ability only works against damage 1. Most people are using damage 2 or above as a general base line.
8.) The ATV....still hate it, don't care. 8 wounds doesn't mean anything that its still gonna just die. Would rather just spend the extra points on scouts.
9.) Warsuit....still not a take for me. doesn't matter if they are 125 points, they are effectively a distraction carnefex. If i see it. it will die. It doesn't have enough wounds, its not necessarily fast enough to avoid getting hammered. And its not tanky enough to survive hits. Any list that has sufficient AT, and EVERY LIST that knows how it is built will. It will just die. I do not have 125 points for something that simply can't survive without it being able to dish out punishing fire back if it survives.
10.) I agree with the stormspeeders, they'll be experimented with, but i just don't have the points to waste to do so.
11.) Eradicators, i agree with the points increase, but the biologis going up to 70 points....was uncalled for....fire discipline...had no business being increased either. This feels like its being punitive because someone in the rules team got hammered by the standard eradicator bomb that was in the dark angels list. and they can't think whatsoever. Its specific, its not paying for the gladius codex compliant fire discipline. its paying for the gladius Non-codex compliant chapter fire discipline. Its specifically dark angels.
JP assault intercessors i agree with the points increase, i just don't use it. VV, going up....no one cares, no one was running them. i'm guessing they are expecting Blood angels to run them alot.
But regardless, i very much disagree with the fire discipline, it should not have gotten hit. We are 40% win rate faction with a detachment that has been trying to keep us even remotely in the field. and that's if we bother to reach 40%. Fire discipline should not have been hit. None of these should have been hit. But they did it because they are punitive because their rules teammate probably got hammered by this unit in a game from the dark angels, and thought "nope, that's overpowered, lets hit all of this"
AN ENHANCEMENT SHOULD NOT AND MUST NOT COST THE SAME AS A UNIT. it an absurd concept to even suggest. it was fine at 30, its just going to be pushed else where.
i've COMPLETEY abandoned the eradicators bomb, and gone with two lancers and a ballistus. If i see anyone attempting to use the eradicator bomb, i'll screen you out if you try to deep strike, and then shoot it to death, and that's 310 points that has failed to do anything, and you're entire army has now been severely compromised. also what is this "i'll still take it to 60, and i think its fair"
Its a single enhancement that goes on a single unit, that only good in 3, now 2 different units, and if you keep HAMMERING THE THINGS THAT WE NEED, you have not done anything to assist space marines, but been dumb.
the thing i've also not seen you talk about is Uriel, his strategist ability gave him a vecting ability. It makes him probably a take now. I used to not bother with him, but now, i take him in conjuncture with Guilliman and Calgar.
And you'll just find a other reason to be gone again lol