Agreed. He keeps circling back to the pinpoint probably because it's easier for him and more natural. I think he stays pinpoint for 2024 with a more simplified motion. -Jason Frausto
I prefer the 'form' and 'principles' behind the platform stance of Jannik. It has Federer-esque influences in it and that is always a good thing - I mean IF you only can execute. But hey, if you get better results on average by using an abbreviated, more compact and less ambitious, simplified serve - go for it. Darren Cahill has obviously made Sinner give up on Roger's exquisite serve model in favour of Kyrgios' fast rhythm motion, one detail notwithstanding: Nick has that similar Roger-esque lag/backswing with an ulnar deviated wrist potion as Sinner used to have in his platform serve. It seems the Italian prodigy could not optimally utilize the explosive reservoir of kinematic chain (his leg drive and core muscle mechanics) in the launch phase with these fine technical nuances (ulnar deviated, relaxed-flexed wrist, a pronounced shoulder coil & hip-coil separation) that are purported to increase your racquet arm whip action - for reasons we can only speculate: It might be that for a lanky guy with long, lean extremities a la Jannik Sinner a lightning bolt pinpoint serve undressed from all 'disturbing Federer-esque finesse' offers an efficient 'shortcut' to the maximum stretch-shorten cycle and thus explosiveness of the load-launch cycle. The higher jump off the serve in the current pinpoint action points to this direction. Nevertheless, Sinner might still benefit from a further evolution - a bold synthesis between these two serve models by gradually incorporating some or all of the Roger-esque 'fine' technical elements back to his now pinpoint based serve: wrist ulnar-flexed orientation in the backswing (and (pre-)trophy) and a pronounced shoulder coil & hip-shoulder separation to mention the obvious ones. His serve as it stands now is not yet the best version he should be able to deliver.
The abbreviated motion has been seen in some other players as well. Popyrin, Humbert, Bublik have all shortened their motions in the past year or so. All 3 have very live arms, so they're not sacrificing much power by reducing the stroke path. Not sure if the pace/speed of his serve has dropped from one year to the next, but it seems this change is about simplifying the serve. He can probably build better from this pin-point version than the platform.
Great observations Peter. I guess when Roddick brought on the abbreviated trend in the early 2000's it was here to stay for many players. -Jason Frausto
I think he went mostly went back to pinpoint because of confidence. It was his earlier stance too. He didn't get as much from the platform stance as he wanted and lost confidence, so went back to pinpoint. Notice that something weird is going on in the pinpoint: his brings his legs together before initiating the forward momentum. That doesn't make any sense, since the pinpoint's main purpose is added forward momentum, the secondary purpose being the ability to reach higher. So I really think it's more of a stylistic thing than a fundamental improvement.
You presented all the changes in serve preparation and execution Janik did over a year. But I missed to hear What did he achieve by doing it? How this changes affected his serve for better or for worst? Please provide any data or information on serve speed, precision or whatever else this changes might helped Janik win more serves. Thanks
Note at :09-.10, Sinner's right leg hangs back. I notice a lot of modern players do this. It must hurt the pelvic region in the long-run. Most of the body moving forward, except for the right leg, which hangs back. I remember in college getting hugs from girls who did the same thing, as if Momma was holding her daughter's right foot to keep her from getting carried away.
Glad you're happy with the pinpoint. I always had a tough time with the balance from it, but Jannik definitely seems to prefer it over the platform stance. -Jason Frausto
Thanks for providing those stats. He made the change just before Wimbledon this year so I’m not sure if they have his stats post Wimby as well when he went full pinpoint? Will be interesting to see, love the battle between him and Zverev tonight. -Jason Frausto
@@TennisUnleashed I believe those are his stats for the whole 2023 season (platform and pinpoint combined). That being said, I'm impressed that a guy at his level would be willing to change his form in the middle of the year instead of during the short winter off-season. Good for him!
i think he needs a time to learn new motion.i would wait at least till wimbledon 2024 to compare 1st half of 2023 and 2024. PS I think,he has very high 1st serve % since USOpen 2023.Can you find his stats after Wimbledon 2023?@@JW-bw8nj
Also I think if he wants more speed, he can load his legs better especially the back leg and hip, he can get a little more shoulder and hip rotation and he can start his leg drive earlier a la Andy Roddicks trophy position( this is v hard for most to pull off though).
Agreed 100%. He can always add those elements back in to try to squeeze more power out of it. He seems to be constantly improving with the desire to go higher. -Jason Frausto
Interesting analysis Jason! It seems to me that Jannik has simplified his serve somewhat with less shoulder and hip rotation and a more abbreviated action. I think his 2022 motion was fine apart from I think his lag and wrist motion was too exagerrated to time consistently everytime. It's probably why he simplified everything. Would be imteresting to know Jannoks ave serve speeds in 2022 compared to 2023. However I'd imagine they are very similar. Great analysis👍
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for sharing your thoughts on his technique Grant. I'd be very curious on his serve speeds from 2022 to 2023 as well. Let's see if he switches back to platform in 2024 ;) -Jason Frausto
That's a good point. We definitiely want to see that at a higher percentage with as tall as Sinner is. I'm sure it will continue to improve. -Jason Frausto
![Serve Compilation | slow motion 2023 [Front View]](/img/1.gif)
Has Jannik Sinner maxed out his stroke technique on the most important strokes? Where else do you think he can improve technically?
-Jason Frausto
I like this new motion better. More compact. Simplified. Quicker to execute. I have a good feeling though he’s still tweaking the motion.
Agreed. He keeps circling back to the pinpoint probably because it's easier for him and more natural. I think he stays pinpoint for 2024 with a more simplified motion.
-Jason Frausto
This comment aged well
I prefer the 'form' and 'principles' behind the platform stance of Jannik. It has Federer-esque influences in it and that is always a good thing - I mean IF you only can execute. But hey, if you get better results on average by using an abbreviated, more compact and less ambitious, simplified serve - go for it. Darren Cahill has obviously made Sinner give up on Roger's exquisite serve model in favour of Kyrgios' fast rhythm motion, one detail notwithstanding: Nick has that similar Roger-esque lag/backswing with an ulnar deviated wrist potion as Sinner used to have in his platform serve. It seems the Italian prodigy could not optimally utilize the explosive reservoir of kinematic chain (his leg drive and core muscle mechanics) in the launch phase with these fine technical nuances (ulnar deviated, relaxed-flexed wrist, a pronounced shoulder coil & hip-coil separation) that are purported to increase your racquet arm whip action - for reasons we can only speculate: It might be that for a lanky guy with long, lean extremities a la Jannik Sinner a lightning bolt pinpoint serve undressed from all 'disturbing Federer-esque finesse' offers an efficient 'shortcut' to the maximum stretch-shorten cycle and thus explosiveness of the load-launch cycle. The higher jump off the serve in the current pinpoint action points to this direction. Nevertheless, Sinner might still benefit from a further evolution - a bold synthesis between these two serve models by gradually incorporating some or all of the Roger-esque 'fine' technical elements back to his now pinpoint based serve: wrist ulnar-flexed orientation in the backswing (and (pre-)trophy) and a pronounced shoulder coil & hip-shoulder separation to mention the obvious ones. His serve as it stands now is not yet the best version he should be able to deliver.
The abbreviated motion has been seen in some other players as well. Popyrin, Humbert, Bublik have all shortened their motions in the past year or so. All 3 have very live arms, so they're not sacrificing much power by reducing the stroke path.
Not sure if the pace/speed of his serve has dropped from one year to the next, but it seems this change is about simplifying the serve. He can probably build better from this pin-point version than the platform.
Great observations Peter. I guess when Roddick brought on the abbreviated trend in the early 2000's it was here to stay for many players.
-Jason Frausto
I love your videos
Great job !
I'm glad you enjoy them. Thanks for watching.
-Jason Frausto
Super helpful. Thanks jason
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching.
-Jason Frausto
I think he went mostly went back to pinpoint because of confidence. It was his earlier stance too. He didn't get as much from the platform stance as he wanted and lost confidence, so went back to pinpoint.
Notice that something weird is going on in the pinpoint: his brings his legs together before initiating the forward momentum. That doesn't make any sense, since the pinpoint's main purpose is added forward momentum, the secondary purpose being the ability to reach higher.
So I really think it's more of a stylistic thing than a fundamental improvement.
You presented all the changes in serve preparation and execution Janik did over a year.
But I missed to hear What did he achieve by doing it? How this changes affected his serve for better or for worst?
Please provide any data or information on serve speed, precision or whatever else this changes might helped Janik win more serves.
Thanks
you can do it only at the end of 2024.at the end of 2024 you can compare his 1sr serve% of 2024 with his 1st serve 1% in 2022.
@@thebigmonstaandy6644@thebigmonstaandy6644 His serves' stats have significantly improved. He won AO.
Note at :09-.10, Sinner's right leg hangs back. I notice a lot of modern players do this. It must hurt the pelvic region in the long-run. Most of the body moving forward, except for the right leg, which hangs back.
I remember in college getting hugs from girls who did the same thing, as if Momma was holding her daughter's right foot to keep her from getting carried away.
pinpoint is easier to get off ground for me. More racquet lag in the beginning gives me more "flare" after the racquet drop too.
Glad you're happy with the pinpoint. I always had a tough time with the balance from it, but Jannik definitely seems to prefer it over the platform stance.
-Jason Frausto
Here are Jannik's serve stats for 2022 vs 2023 (so far)
2022 stats will always be listed first
Serve games held: 83.4% - 85.9%
Aces: 7.6% - 7.7%
DF: 3.4% - 2.6%
1st serve in: 58.4% - 58.2%
1st serve won: 74.5% - 76.1%
2ns serve won: 53.4% - 56.0%
Thanks for providing those stats. He made the change just before Wimbledon this year so I’m not sure if they have his stats post Wimby as well when he went full pinpoint? Will be interesting to see, love the battle between him and Zverev tonight.
-Jason Frausto
@@TennisUnleashed I believe those are his stats for the whole 2023 season (platform and pinpoint combined). That being said, I'm impressed that a guy at his level would be willing to change his form in the middle of the year instead of during the short winter off-season. Good for him!
yes.but he uses new serve technque after Wimbledon 2023.
@@thebigmonstaandy6644 Correct. As already stated above, I could find no data from January 2023-Wimbledon to compare to post Wimbledon numbers.
i think he needs a time to learn new motion.i would wait at least till wimbledon 2024 to compare 1st half of 2023 and 2024.
PS I think,he has very high 1st serve % since USOpen 2023.Can you find his stats after Wimbledon 2023?@@JW-bw8nj
Much better !!!!! Faster racket action only one movement more unpredictable I like it !!!
Also I think if he wants more speed, he can load his legs better especially the back leg and hip, he can get a little more shoulder and hip rotation and he can start his leg drive earlier a la Andy Roddicks trophy position( this is v hard for most to pull off though).
Agreed 100%. He can always add those elements back in to try to squeeze more power out of it. He seems to be constantly improving with the desire to go higher.
-Jason Frausto
Looks like his team is going for consistency over maximum speed ceiling. Probably the right call
Agreed 100%. It will be interesting to see if he sticks with the changes for all of 2024.
-Jason Frausto
Interesting analysis Jason! It seems to me that Jannik has simplified his serve somewhat with less shoulder and hip rotation and a more abbreviated action.
I think his 2022 motion was fine apart from I think his lag and wrist motion was too exagerrated to time consistently everytime.
It's probably why he simplified everything.
Would be imteresting to know Jannoks ave serve speeds in 2022 compared to 2023. However I'd imagine they are very similar.
Great analysis👍
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for sharing your thoughts on his technique Grant. I'd be very curious on his serve speeds from 2022 to 2023 as well. Let's see if he switches back to platform in 2024 ;)
-Jason Frausto
1:55
He uses Isners serve technigue now.
his first serve %in is very poor always less than 60
That's a good point. We definitiely want to see that at a higher percentage with as tall as Sinner is. I'm sure it will continue to improve.
-Jason Frausto
@@TennisUnleashed if he continues to improve then he will be hard to beat for sure, even with a poor first serve in% he is world no 6