Metaphor actually managed it's discussion of politics, religion and racism fairly well all things considered. its nothing groundbreaking or particularly insightful, but also not tactless. oh and in one scene in Persona 5 tactica you can imagine yourself getting married to any party member in one scene and I rember it letting you pick the dudes and it wasnt wierd about it from what i remeber.
@@MattHortonI think the further you get the more interesting and nuanced the dynamics of the games races, religions and politics become. There's a lot more beneath the surface even though it seems too heavy handed at first
Hi, love the video and always appreciate a good small channel so definitely keep up the amazing work. Here’s my two cents, persona like a lot of anime/manga comes with the baggage of Japanese culture. I do not think it’s an ATLUS issue as much as it is a Japanese society normalises weird behaviour and poor representations as beneath the surface it is a highly conservative. It’s a shame but for instance with queer writing while we want to think of Japan as highly progressive much of Japanese society is still a good decade behind the west around queer issues leading to poor representation in media. While there certainly are exceptions as a trans person myself I have yet to find a series that doesn’t feel like it either mocks or fetishises my identity which while it’s a shame at this point I just accept. Persona 5 is still my favourite game of all time despite the flaws and I think that’s just because I’ve become good at ignoring the strange parts entirely however I still think openly discussing them is very important because more people need to call out Japan as a whole and not just blatantly idealise it as a perfect society because it made anime.
Yeah. That's fair as a way to understand why. I do think it's worth calling on Japanese creators and artists to be better. To not do so is either putting Japanese people on a pedestal or infantilizing them. When in reality, the people that make these games are just people.
while i agree with the whole "ann needs to strip" scene being bad and the bad gay and young dating old stuff, i feel you completley missunderstood why anns thief outfit is the way it is. shes taking her life back by force from the shitty adults that dominated over her. i also feel you'd probably completley misread naoto and kanji from P4 as a lot of LGBT people who are also persona fans did latley (to clarify, i am trans and bi, and i dont think naotos story isnt about being trans, or kanjis story is about being homosexual). also Studio zeros first game wasnt metaphor, it was Cathrine / fullbody.
I disagree respectfully, as Kanji is most definitely queer coded, same with Naoto. I actually believe Naoto is written to have both transgender AND cis woman issues, and thats where it sort of blurs and becomes messy because of the...infamous internalized homophobia and transphobia from the persona games it is not far fetched to assume that some of that couldve blurred into Naotos story arc or maybe affected how they were written. Plus, Naotos continued discomfort with revealing themselves and their interest in talking about queer related stuff (When Yu mentions getting love letters from men and women they take immense interest, how in p4a I believe they mention how they and the robot both yearn for things they cannot be, which can so clearly be read as being a man.) I think its simply untrue to say that Naoto and Kanji have nothing to do with queer people or the queer life when they have direct mentions of it and of course have queer coding itself. I say this as someone whos both queer and transgender but is fine with and embrace both interpretations.
This is a great video, Matt. I’ve myself played between 10-20 hours of each P3 Portable, P4 Golden, and P5 Royal and none of them have stuck with me the way it seems the series has with others. Your video makes a great case for P3 Reload! I wonder if this is just a series that doesn’t necessarily land for players the first time around, but gels better on subsequent attempts because the basics have been grokked already.
Something that baffles me is that everyone online finds kanji, beach/hot springs scenes and the adult relationships to be weird. No at single person seems to like it, yet they keep adding it. We'll see if Persona 6 does it any better, hopefully the new guys are allowed to break these Persona traditions. Persona 4 is easily the worst when it comes to homophobia and stupid anime tropes. I played it after reload, and I love it, but it has some awful moments that are way too drawn out. I impulse bought it for a friend of mine who has only started getting into more games than fortnite in the last few years. I wanted to get him P3R, but I just didnt have the money for it, so I got him the second best option. But he is bisexual, and I truly dread that the stupid writing around kanji doesn't ruin the game for him, not that I would blame him at all. Also On if pokemon or persona came first, digital devil story: megami tensei, which is the first game in the megaten series which SMT and Persona both directly descend from came out in 1987, way before pokemon, but yeah dragon quest came out a year before so it wins.
@MattHorton sorry if it was a bit of a mad ramble, but I don't know anybody who's into the games, and I Needed to talk about them, especially after you highlighted a lot of the issues
Not at all! These comments have been way nicer than I expected. Fwiw, we've got a really good crew of people over at the Discord for The Worst Garbage if you want to chat Persona with us! Just go to theworstgarbage.online and click the discord icon. If I know who you are, I can pull you into the Persona channel
@@MattHorton I'm watching the "is persona gay" video, and I'm surprised to see how much thr community is homophobic. I am cis/het, but My experience with it has been limited to fans on Instagram and Twitter, and pretty much all of them are LGBTQ in some way or another. Similarly I've never been on the megaten or persona subreddits, but I do use the brainrotting okbuddypersona sub, where they're all very critical of the terrible representation and horny tropes. I guess I can count myself lucky that the part of the community I've landed in is so accepting.
Persona 3 is both the best game in the series and the worst game in the series. The story of P3 is the best, even if the themes of P4 and 5 are more relatable to you, when it comes to the writing P3 is just the best. but the gameplay is the worst because tartarus is just not a great dungeon. P3 both have the best social link in the Sun arcana, but also the worst with the Gourmet King and all the others are between those 2. And the same goes for episode Aigis, which is again great when it comes to the story but bad when it comes to the gameplay
Eh its not that big of deal. This video rings hollow because you assume Persona is catering to a modern audience. The last mainline persona game was released in 2016, and that was a hugely different social climate compared to now. I am going to give Atlus the benefit of the doubt and if they still have same issues in Persona 6, then I know there is a huge problem.
I mean it is that big of a deal. This is a video about my experience with Persona 3 Reload. A game I love but which punched me in the face, metaphorically, time and time again. And it was just as bad in 2009 as it is today. But yeah I hope Persona 6 is a lot better. Metaphor seems to be an improvement! So probably!
![JOKER IS THE *HARDEST* BOSS IN PERSONA HISTORY! [HEARTLESS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-wyEB8aKcg4/mqdefault.jpg)
Correction: Studio Zero's first game was Catherine. I incorrectly thought that was a P Studio game.
the koromaru appreciation squad has logged on
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Jan 31 day - Visit bookworms
Jan 31 evening - Save the world
Metaphor actually managed it's discussion of politics, religion and racism fairly well all things considered. its nothing groundbreaking or particularly insightful, but also not tactless.
oh and in one scene in Persona 5 tactica you can imagine yourself getting married to any party member in one scene and I rember it letting you pick the dudes and it wasnt wierd about it from what i remeber.
That's awesome! I'm about 3 hours into metaphor
@@MattHortonI think the further you get the more interesting and nuanced the dynamics of the games races, religions and politics become. There's a lot more beneath the surface even though it seems too heavy handed at first
I don't disagree but i think the video could have been shorter
on another note, have you played smt?
i feel you could like it maybe
I'd honestly probably hate smt. I'm not an all combat person
@@MattHortonprobably don’t like turn based or jrpg at all this genre ain’t for you
@@Ghostlynotme445 I just made a video about how much I love one of them where I mentioned I've played 3 I love this year. So 🤷♂
Hi, love the video and always appreciate a good small channel so definitely keep up the amazing work.
Here’s my two cents, persona like a lot of anime/manga comes with the baggage of Japanese culture.
I do not think it’s an ATLUS issue as much as it is a Japanese society normalises weird behaviour and poor representations as beneath the surface it is a highly conservative. It’s a shame but for instance with queer writing while we want to think of Japan as highly progressive much of Japanese society is still a good decade behind the west around queer issues leading to poor representation in media.
While there certainly are exceptions as a trans person myself I have yet to find a series that doesn’t feel like it either mocks or fetishises my identity which while it’s a shame at this point I just accept.
Persona 5 is still my favourite game of all time despite the flaws and I think that’s just because I’ve become good at ignoring the strange parts entirely however I still think openly discussing them is very important because more people need to call out Japan as a whole and not just blatantly idealise it as a perfect society because it made anime.
Yeah. That's fair as a way to understand why. I do think it's worth calling on Japanese creators and artists to be better. To not do so is either putting Japanese people on a pedestal or infantilizing them. When in reality, the people that make these games are just people.
Ah I spent a bunch of time with Persona 3 on the PSP. That was rad.
i should play portable handheld
i can't believe you've gotten me to care about persona... dang...
right???
This rules. Great work, Matt!
Honestly thanks for talking about Persona so much over the years! I never would have considered trying it out without Aether!
I'm so glad!
while i agree with the whole "ann needs to strip" scene being bad and the bad gay and young dating old stuff, i feel you completley missunderstood why anns thief outfit is the way it is. shes taking her life back by force from the shitty adults that dominated over her. i also feel you'd probably completley misread naoto and kanji from P4 as a lot of LGBT people who are also persona fans did latley (to clarify, i am trans and bi, and i dont think naotos story isnt about being trans, or kanjis story is about being homosexual). also Studio zeros first game wasnt metaphor, it was Cathrine / fullbody.
Hey I'll take the disagreement and correction from someone who is civil! Thanks
I disagree respectfully, as Kanji is most definitely queer coded, same with Naoto.
I actually believe Naoto is written to have both transgender AND cis woman issues, and thats where it sort of blurs and becomes messy because of the...infamous internalized homophobia and transphobia from the persona games it is not far fetched to assume that some of that couldve blurred into Naotos story arc or maybe affected how they were written.
Plus, Naotos continued discomfort with revealing themselves and their interest in talking about queer related stuff (When Yu mentions getting love letters from men and women they take immense interest, how in p4a I believe they mention how they and the robot both yearn for things they cannot be, which can so clearly be read as being a man.) I think its simply untrue to say that Naoto and Kanji have nothing to do with queer people or the queer life when they have direct mentions of it and of course have queer coding itself.
I say this as someone whos both queer and transgender but is fine with and embrace both interpretations.
This is a great video, Matt. I’ve myself played between 10-20 hours of each P3 Portable, P4 Golden, and P5 Royal and none of them have stuck with me the way it seems the series has with others. Your video makes a great case for P3 Reload! I wonder if this is just a series that doesn’t necessarily land for players the first time around, but gels better on subsequent attempts because the basics have been grokked already.
Maybe! I learned a lot in 5 Royal. But I also listened to a LOT of Aether about it
I actually really loved the persona games! Having wife and kids now has taken so much time it’s hard to play games even games with problems lol
Valid
loved the insights as always matt! ❤
Thanks!
Thankfully so many people liked P3R, maybe in the future that love can carry over to P3Fes or P3P
Hope you give metaphor refantazio a try as well!
Yeah! I'm 3 hours in!
Persona is my favorite series of all time with persona 4 golden being my favorite
I need to play it, but I have a feeling I'd have way more issues with that one
@@MattHorton Oh boy howdy would you...it is one of my favourite games but it is deeply flawed when it comes to representation
So i have heard.
Already knew where this video was going... Waste of time.
Good for you
This was really great! It made me want to finally pick up P3R.
I can see myself buying it again just to play on Deck
Something that baffles me is that everyone online finds kanji, beach/hot springs scenes and the adult relationships to be weird. No at single person seems to like it, yet they keep adding it. We'll see if Persona 6 does it any better, hopefully the new guys are allowed to break these Persona traditions.
Persona 4 is easily the worst when it comes to homophobia and stupid anime tropes. I played it after reload, and I love it, but it has some awful moments that are way too drawn out. I impulse bought it for a friend of mine who has only started getting into more games than fortnite in the last few years. I wanted to get him P3R, but I just didnt have the money for it, so I got him the second best option. But he is bisexual, and I truly dread that the stupid writing around kanji doesn't ruin the game for him, not that I would blame him at all.
Also On if pokemon or persona came first, digital devil story: megami tensei, which is the first game in the megaten series which SMT and Persona both directly descend from came out in 1987, way before pokemon, but yeah dragon quest came out a year before so it wins.
Thank you for this thoughtful comment!
@MattHorton sorry if it was a bit of a mad ramble, but I don't know anybody who's into the games, and I Needed to talk about them, especially after you highlighted a lot of the issues
Not at all! These comments have been way nicer than I expected.
Fwiw, we've got a really good crew of people over at the Discord for The Worst Garbage if you want to chat Persona with us! Just go to theworstgarbage.online and click the discord icon. If I know who you are, I can pull you into the Persona channel
@@MattHorton I'm watching the "is persona gay" video, and I'm surprised to see how much thr community is homophobic. I am cis/het, but My experience with it has been limited to fans on Instagram and Twitter, and pretty much all of them are LGBTQ in some way or another. Similarly I've never been on the megaten or persona subreddits, but I do use the brainrotting okbuddypersona sub, where they're all very critical of the terrible representation and horny tropes.
I guess I can count myself lucky that the part of the community I've landed in is so accepting.
I wish Bebe ws a romance option
Absolutely
Persona 3 is both the best game in the series and the worst game in the series. The story of P3 is the best, even if the themes of P4 and 5 are more relatable to you, when it comes to the writing P3 is just the best. but the gameplay is the worst because tartarus is just not a great dungeon. P3 both have the best social link in the Sun arcana, but also the worst with the Gourmet King and all the others are between those 2.
And the same goes for episode Aigis, which is again great when it comes to the story but bad when it comes to the gameplay
I started Aigis last night because a friend convinced me to, but I"m not sure I'll finish it.
P3R's biggest problem is P5R exists. I'd play P5R for the 4th time than P3R for the 2nd time. P3R 8/10, P5R 10/10
Eh. Not my cup of tea but glad it's there for you!
You should give the OG P3 a try or P3P
@@Hello-bg8hv I just got a retro handheld I want to play p3p on
Eh its not that big of deal. This video rings hollow because you assume Persona is catering to a modern audience. The last mainline persona game was released in 2016, and that was a hugely different social climate compared to now. I am going to give Atlus the benefit of the doubt and if they still have same issues in Persona 6, then I know there is a huge problem.
I mean it is that big of a deal. This is a video about my experience with Persona 3 Reload. A game I love but which punched me in the face, metaphorically, time and time again. And it was just as bad in 2009 as it is today.
But yeah I hope Persona 6 is a lot better. Metaphor seems to be an improvement! So probably!
really boring and tired, hate this vid a lot tbh
same to you, girl