In conclusion: only one of the Istari was able to competently complete the mission. The 'leader' turned against the order, another developed an obsession with small animals, and the other two wandered off to Eru knows where.
I like to think that the two blue wizards died fighting Sauron and his minions in the east. Maybe they rallied the good of the men of the east and fought and died nobly against the evils of the east.
@@lordofthered1257 where did it imply they died sorry have not read much about them so I always assumed their presence was more of like this is only a small part of the world and those 2 are off doing stuff in the other parts of the world we simply dont know much about
Not true. Radaghasts relations with the forces and races of nature allows Gandalf to learn how to speak to and befriend Eagles, and just about every other sentient force of the forest (ents and such). He’s rather like a mild Tom Bombadil, that is able and willing to interact and affect his surroundings.
I have studied Middle Earth lore very deeply since I was 15. I'm 50 now. I've read everything, thought deeply about it all and remember many things. All of this notwithstanding, I still learned from this tube. Very well done and kudos to you for your (respected) level of knowledge.
This made me think of Gandalf saying this at the Gates of Moria: "I once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs, that was ever used for such a purpose. I can still remember ten score of them without searching in my mind."
@@laramieseattlewrennwkbthta4007 The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe (the first Narnia book to be written) came around in the 50s. By this point Lewis was most certainly a Defender of the Faith. And some of the scenes in that are way too opaque references it not to be a Christ similar.
What I love about Gandalf is that he can go from being a powerful and authorative figure, who offers counsel and foresight to all the different peoples of Middle Earth, to being a guy who can chill and smoke weed with his hobbit buddies in the shire. Might be my favourite fictional character ever.
how on earth did he have an entire ficitonal universe in his head.its so detailed it could be a history book.could you imagine having this imagination.
It really is not that difficult especially if you are writing fiction from scratch and everything is made up. Then you’ve so countless sources to draw up inspiration from. Then all you need to do is have some imagination, bit of critical thinking, and copious amounts of will to commit yourself to writing project. You can come up with ideas, that’s easy; but implementing them and fleshing them out is an effort. For that you need patience and, again, strong sense of commitment. You’ll hit a snag & you’ll encounter points where you want to give up, but all that he wrote is very much doable with strong dedication, some imagination & bit of keen research skills. I’m saying it all rather too succinctly but it gets the point across.
Im convinced cs lewis tried to get Tolkien to smoke a joint but Tolkien declined lmao. The weed dynamic of this book is so out of place, but so fitting
My fun fact: after reading The Hobbit in high school, I fell in love with JRR Tolkien. So when I saw an ad in a magazine in college for a set of LOTR books in leather for sale for 40 bucks a piece, I had to have them. It took me forever to pay them off but, to this day, 25 or so years later, they are still my most treasured possession.
That is so cool. I purchased a three volume set of the lord of the rings as a teen in 1979 or so. I read them so many times over the years, in good times and bad. I still have them to this day. Sadly, my Two Towers book split in half it was read so often, then lost somehow, never to be seen again. They are dogeared and the pages are yellow, but I treasure them over all the books I own, which are many.
This was beautiful. When you started describing Gandalf and the music started playing in the background, it really touched my heart. Gandalf is the grandpa and wise mentor we all wish we had.
Nah Saruman was loyal to the cause at the time. The blue wizards were simply not written about because they were far away from the events that were written about.
Patrick Guiett Me too! That would be fantastic! Though he would have to make up his own lore to add to his father's, and some people might not be too happy about that. I would love to see what he would come up with though!
Very unlikely to happen. It would be more likely that he would publish the full form of the Fall of Gondolin, the last of the 'three great stories' of the Silmarillion, and the one he said had to be compressed for that publication. But his forward to Beren and Luthien says he thinks that will be his final work. He does not seen to view himself as an author, but rather as a curator of his father's work.
Christopher has been spending all these years editing and publishing his father's papers, so I think it unlikely at this late date that he would actually write anything of his own. Based on what has already been published, Tolkien had very little to say about the Blue Wizards and I think it unlikely that his son has kept anything significant back on the subject.
9:10 - Saruman did talk about his disdain for Radagast. He described him as "Radagast the Simple" to Gandalf in the exchange where he reveals his new identity as "Saruman of Many Colours"
@@scottmantooth8785 In the words of Gandalf: "Radagast is, of course, a worthy Wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue; and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."
I always imagined that one of the 2 blue wizards turned evil like Saruman and the other one tried to stop him like Gandalf, so the 2 blue wizards were duking it out in the east during the war of the ring.
Saruman and Grima did not "escape by hidden means". They were released from captivity in Orthanc by Treebeard who had been appointed his gaoler by Gandalf, when he, Treebeard, was satisfied his power was diminished . But Gandalf speculated that some of Saruman's verbal persuasiveness had remained and influenced Treebeard's decision. As detailed in the Chapter "Many Partings" in Return of the King (page 313 in my edition); "I observe, my good Fangorn," said Gandalf, "that with great care you say dwelt, was, grew. What about this? Is he dead?" "No, not dead, so far as I know," said Treebeard. "But he is gone. Yes, he is gone seven days. I let him go. There was little left of him when he crawled out, and as for that worm-creature of his, he was like a pale shadow. Now do not tell me, Gandalf, that I promised to keep him safe; for I know it. But things have changed since then. And I kept him until he was safe, safe from doing any more harm. You should know that above all I hate the caging of live things, and I will not keep even such creatures as these caged beyond great need. A snake without fangs may crawl where he will" "You may be right," said Gandalf; "but this snake had still one tooth left , I think. He had the poison of his voice, and I guess her persuaded you, even you Treebeard, knowing the soft spot in your heart. Well, he is gone and there is no more to be said."
John Miguel Sadiasa - Definitely do the books first! The films are great, but I do feel that they have come to be the primary telling for many people, but that should always belong to the books.
Great vid. I would mention that Gandalf's chief Master was the Valar Estë, wife of Irmo, whose domain was the healing of weariness and that while he was Olorin in Valinor he spent much time with the Valar Nienna, who weeps for the world and whose domain was mercy. Such that the domain of the Maiar Olorin/Gandalf was the healing of sorrow and despair, uplifting hearts toward hope. (The same power as Narya)
Gandalf states that after he died he "passed out of time and space" where the Valar couldn't go. He was in the realm of Eru. Therefore Eru sent him back to complete his mission, Eru also restored some of the power Gandalf was unable to use before.
@@jeremyihlang1759 This makes perfect sense, thank you for pointing it out. So Gandalf the White is basically "Istar Restricted 75%" when the two others were "Restricted 90%" (or Saruman Of Many Colors was maybe "85%" 😉)
@@mrj.kottari8453 if you wanna read a new writers work. Click me. He has a majik staff to and his is really strong! He is so powerful and beautiful. Go to him
Create your own history. You never know...people might like it. But do your research and history. Think of how it will all fall into place. This guy creates his own story line. Which I love
@@JohnnyZenith And yet even the Simarillion undoes this partially however. When told with several buildups to later events in the series chronologically.
@@MGSBigBoss77 If you are interested in the Blue Wizards, it is because they are enigmatic and you don't know anything about them. If they explained everything to you, they would stop being interesting. They shouldn't make up anything Tolkien didn't write.
A very interesting thing is that the Five Wizards are inspired by the Five Patriarchs of the Catholic Church, the Pentarchy. The Pentarchy was composed by the five major episcopal sees of the Roman Empire: Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. The bishops of these sees are the Patriarchs and the Roman Patriarch, aka the Pope, is the leader of the Pentarchy. The White Wizard is inspired by the popes, always dressed in white. Tokien was a devout catholic and Tolkien's universe has deep roots in catholic theology. As I studied theology, the compreension of the LOTR universe was totaly open to me.
Because he used the number 5... quite a stretch, maybe so maybe not... real important thing is idk if anybody cares either way... why take something awesome and try and compare it to curropt modern religion WHY?!
Bob Saget , catholicism is not a modern religion, it has 2000 years. Mister Tolkien was a devout catholic, and in his letters he wrote about the catholic theology in LOTR's universe. If you do not like, pacience.
Nemanja Petrovic If you studied orthodoxy, you might know they call themselves "catholic" as well. So, from my perspective or from yours, Catholic Church is 2000 years old. Roman catholics had some bad popes, but saying Saruman represents all popes is a distortion from your orthodox perspective. If we count, all great heresies came from East, like nesthorianism, arianism, marcionism etc. Nestorius was the patriarch of Constantinople, and was a great heresiarch. Gandalf was the symbol of the little who becomes a giant in the Eyes of the Lord. He was put in the place of Saruman to clean the "church" from his treason. Tolkien was a good catholic, and Gandalf is the Pope, successor of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles.
Funny, as how he, himself (Tolkien) said nothing he wrote was seeped in anything other that writing a decent mythology for England. He loathed allegory, and was quoted saying "I despise it whever I smell it". The entirety of Middle Earth has zero to do with Catholisism and everything to do with his love for ancient languages and regional mythos.
Hey everyone, I hope you all enjoyed the video, I just have a quick correction here! I do not believe Saruman actually conjured any of the storms (that I mention at 9:40) in the Redhorn Pass during the Fellowship of the Ring in the books! I believe the storms of the mountain Caradhras itself defeated the Fellowship of the Ring. Also, Celeborn went into the West sometime after Gandalf and the others did. Sorry for the mistakes! Thank you for the support!
It was indeed Caradhras that troubled them, but I've always inferred that the mountain itself was motivated and moved towards evil by the will of Saruman. I don't recall another reason being given for its enmity.
@ 9:23, in first movie, the Fellowship, it was a giant eagle that saved Gandalf from the top platform of Eisen guard. Are you saying it was a Nazgul named Quahear in the book? 🤨 🤯 🤔
What would have been Saruman's motivation to turn on the wizards or otherwise make sure that they don't return (as you imply) at that point though? Saruman didn't seem as corruptible to completely turn on other wizards then, right?
Haha, I also considered that Saruman might have done something to the Blue Wizards, but it's not believed that he had been corrupted during his time with them in the East. Ultimately, the fate of the Blue Wizards was not only unclear to start but was apparently only partially revised by Tolkein. In his notes he originally wrote that they had failed like Saruman but in different ways. In a much later letter, he wrote that they had indeed been successful in splintering the Easterlings and keeping them from bringing their full number to Sauron's aid at the end of the Third Age. However, if the latter were the case, why was Gandalf the only wizard to return to Valinor after the defeat of Sauron? Even if the Blue Wizards had been slain, as Gandalf was during his fight with the Balrog, why were they not resurrected like Gandalf, especially if their mission was on point? Even if the Valar had decided that they were no longer needed in Middle-earth, their spirits -- which could only be destroyed by Eru -- should have returned to Valinor. The only thing that should have prevented that was if they had fallen into Darkness and been forsworn like Saruman. Tolkein seemed to change his mind about the success of their mission but did not rewrite the part about only Gandalf returning to Valinor. Perhaps this was an oversight, or he had not yet committed to the change.
@@michaelcrouthers8857 Excellent analysis / comment. Personally, I suspect that the story of the the blue wizards' role / fate was something that Tolkien (you mixed up the "i" and "e" by the way, haha) intentionally left ambiguous, and might have made slight alterations to later on only to further this purpose - not with the ultimate aim to bring clarity to their characters.
It's not hard to find a RUclips video about Tolkien's writings, but sometimes it IS hard to find a good one. I count this among the VERY good ones. I know of nothing that was missed or misrepresented, and I'm a life-long aficionado of 44 years. Furthermore, I'm heartened and impressed by the attention to detail that you've exhibited with your follow-up comment regarding the Fellowship's approach of the Redhorn Pass. I shall look forward to more of your excellent work in the future. Thank you.
Hey everyone, I hope you enjoy this video! Let me know what you think down below! I tried some new options with my mic to adjust to a volume problem someone told me about, so if it's different, that's why. Hopefully it doesn't affect the quality of the video! Enjoy and thank you all as always!
Hey man love the content I'm a newbie. One of my favourite parts is your ending where you say what we can learn (as LOTR is archetypal) the music gets all optimistic. I find myself watching and feeling better afterwards so thank you.Keep up the good work!!!
I'm only seeing this 2 years after it was originally posted but omg I love it. It's a bit along but I was never bored. I'm also glad that you kept on mentioning that their main power is with their voice and at advising. Now I feel I better understand the wizards. Thank you very much! (you got another subscriber here)
I have watched several of your videos and have enjoyed every minute. I also read all the books many years ago so I appreciate the refresher. Keep up the great work!
I love how the story goes to great lengths to completely nerf wizards in advance, because Tolkien knows they would be completely OP and destroy everything if allowed to make unchecked gains of power lmao.
Fat Fuck it means to substantially weaken. It’s in reference to the fact that Nerf guns are substantially weaker than actual guns. Therefore, when a gun was weakened in any game, it felt like a nerf gun
@5567 5555 Exactly. Valar and Maiar fighting on Arda wrecked continents. The Maiar had to be restricted to protect the people, otherwise the fight might destroy everything it was supposed to save.
@@sketep1117 Well by the time the War of the Ring was fought, there was much lessening of power and magic, the Fourth Age was an age without magic and what happened in the First and Second Ages could no longer be replicated or achieved.
So passionate, so unique, utterly dedicated to the truth of the Lore while infused with an inquisitive, reasoned and informed perspective on elements that are open to interpretation. Your voice is very easy to listen to and the effort that goes into piecing together the, frequently, disparate and discombobulated fictional history whilst still keeping the videos succinct is singular among the Lotr Lore videos of RUclips and very much appreciated. Absolutely love your videos. Thank you for your time in making them.
I would love to see a movie on "the turning of sarumon" imagine a movie of him and the blue wizards going on an adventure, sarumon slowly being corrupted and at the end sarumon failing to turn the blue wizards after he had become fully corrupt and then one crazy wizard battle where he kills both blue wizards *cries* it would be such a good / sad movie.
@Romeo Gomes their spirits would return to the valar yes but effectively they would be removed from the whole scenario which is basically the same thing. Tweak it to them being imprisoned and tortured/just locked away. Either way it could be a neat movie idea if executed well
@@sionjames8064 Bruh for real? I've been so wrong for so long LMFAO! Wow that's sad, this whole time I thought they were in some kind of bromance. LMAO Edit: Thank you!
Great breakdown! LOTR totally brings out my inner "nerd"! I'm 43 and grew up during D&D's hay day. I have always loved the fantasy genre and I've read LOTR once a year every year since Junior High! I watch the extended cut of each movie back to back over the course of a weekend once a year also! I've now added the extended cuts of the Hobbit to my annual "Nerd Out"! LOL Glad I found your channel and dig your content!
Thank you so very much for all the enlightenment you brought to the stories. Being an avid reader of Tolkien I still heard many things from you I didn't know. Keep your posts coming they are most enjoyable.
Playing Lord of the Rings Online, I created a character who was called Oerick. His backstory was that he was actually Alatar, one of the blue wizards who had travelled into the east. There, they were both tempted by the darkness, as Saruman was. Alatar resisted after great effort, but Pallando fell into darkness and struck his companion down. As happened with Gandalf, Alatar was restored to life. His restoration, however, left him weak and nearly powerless, forcing him to learn his place in the world. Even his true identity was unknown to him. I thought it was a nifty origin story that still held true to the lore...
@@silverdragon710 lord of the rings online. It's about 10yrs old and not as full of people but it is a great came definitely worth playing and paying for. It is free to play but the monthly VIP is worth it. It has an immersive lore and amazing story. Join the Crickhollow server, you'll be welcomed!
I actually had a pet theory that the Blue Wizards went on to appear in Disney films. Alatar became Yensid in Fantasia (1940) and Pallando became Merlin in Sword in the Stone (1963).
@@AWMK101 I agree. I imagine if Disney adapted or acquired The Hobbit and The Lord of Rings movies (humor me on this) I imagine Kingdom Hearts would have put two and two together and added Middle-earth to the multiple worlds you visit in the games and connected Yensid and Merlin to that. Hey, they already had Christopher Lee voicing in Kingdom Hearts 2, so they would have said: "Hey, Mr. Lee, how would you like to reprise Saruman the White?"
Got like 1000+ subs in a week? Congrats man! First a new GoT episode and now a new LOTR video of you, great way to start the morning. If you want another idea for a new video, maybe beasts of Middle-Earth/Arda? Like something about the eagles, spiders, dogs, cats, etc. I recently started reading Beren and Lúthien, although Beren and Tinúviel would have been a better name imo, and encountered names of such creatures as Huan, Tivildo, Karkaras, which gave me this idea.
Grey Eyes Thank you so much Grey Eyes! I loved the new episode of GoT by the way haha. That is a great suggestion, I'll add it to the list. Have a good one my friend, and thank you as always for your support!
I think that would be a great idea. You might want to read up on the silmarillion as that provides information on those characters. The spiders were the spawn of Ungoliant, Killer of the Two Trees of Valinor. Huan was a gift to Celegorm by Oromis. The Eagles were created by Manwe to keep watch over Middle Earth. I think the cats and dogs are native to Middle Earth but don't quote me on that. I also that it wouldn't matter much whether it was Beren and Luthien or Beren and Tinuviel as the are the same elf.
Thank you for filling in the gaps for me and my girl. Making videos like this, makes people want to read everything he has done. Great work friends keep it up please.
Dude you gotta keep this videos going, i can't stop watching. In the day when i work i have my headphones on and work while listening and the day goes so fast!
I think a video on the First Age elf Ecthelion and/or on the structure and leaders of Gondolin would be cool. The fountain part was just too cool. To me, it is the most memorable part of the Silmarillion next to Fingolfin's death and Glorfindel's sacrifice.
Maybe that was Saruman's plan, If he was convinced that Gandalf had (or could have) a thirst of power similar to his, having him see such a display of power would maybe convince Gandalf to join him.
Maybe it’s just me but how does Saruman get on top? It’s not clearly shown or explained in the movies, I’m assuming that there is a staircase somewhere....
I think the real lesson of Gandalf was that to succeed we must begin our journey in humility. Of all the wizards Gandalf was the only one to openly acknowledge that he could not face this threat alone, and admit the fear within himself. He was the only one to befriend and learn and teach the peoples he encountered. Compassion, hope and humility are what enable Gandalf's success.
I just want to say thank you, for all of your wonderful videos. I love Tolkien's legendarium, and you never make like noisy, horrid videos about it. Just calm, informative ones. And I appreciate that. I like to watch them before I sleep. Sort of like a lullaby, sending be to a different place, while also learning. Thanks.
Even though years have passed since the release of the films, it is video finds and effort from people like this that take me back, right there in that movie theater seat, trying to pick my jaw up from the floor after not blinking while watching one of the greatest adventures and movie franchises ever made. Thank you for expanding on what we thought we knew as well as keeping that adventure alive, even today.
Thank you for such an astute elaboration on this topic. I have read all the books, including, of course, The Simarillian, many times. However, this video helped tremendously in clearing up some confusion regarding the multiple names of important characters and their role in Tolkien’s earlier works. I read all Tolkien’s Middle Earth books over 35 years ago and then again about 10 years ago. Yet, I still kept some unanswered questions at the back of my mind. Thank you for your excellent research and work creating this condensing and compilation in regards to answering these nagging questions for me. Well done!
Men of the West, your Videos are enlighting my day. Thanks for your work. I realy love the World of Tolkien and know nearly everythin interesting about it. But your Videos are showing parts I nerver really imagined. And becouse this world is no longer expanding your " What if " Videos are a real pleasure to watch.
Florian Schmitt Thank you very much. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch my videos! I'm happy I can help open the world of Tolkien to you all!
The thing I really like about Tolkien's wizards is that in many ways they're quite limited. They can perform magic, but not Harry Potter magic. They can bend the rules of Middle Earth but not break them. While not weak they are vulnerable, an Orc pack can pose a serious threat to a wizard.
Men of the West I highly recommend nightfall on middle Earth by blind guardian. They have so much about tolkiens work. Check them out. Thank you very much for these videos keep it up buddy.
I'm actually a HUGE fan of the fantasy "Space Series" of CS Lewis; the allegory chokes me with it's truth, with the steampunk technology of the the time of it's writing even. The lessons of the trilogy is what does it: The Will to Power, the psychological lessons, the lesson of the 'other' addressed, the lesson of addiction addressed and its power obviated in the first pulp-fiction-esque Lewis wanted to achieve and maintain in the short trilogy . The space series is all what Lewis and Tolkien were saying - the both of them - for all their lives. Out Of the Silent Planet, Perelandra and That Hideous Strength. Don't be a stranger to these books, anachronistic as they may seem on first blush. Times turn.
Best 18:26 I ever spent watching a video. Now to spend the rest of the morning watching the other videos you have up. Keep it up! Hope more people find this channel
Added and now on a binge! First vid I've seen of yours, I'll leave a positive and a negative comment negative..also kind of positive is that I've had to rewind to catch and process but that's probably just me, I'm quite rusty as I haven't read any of them ( I have a decent collection..a book of his letters?lost letters? Silmarillion of course, his short tales.. biographies etc)..he was quite the influence and one of my favorite authors, it's a tie between Tolkien or Douglas Adams and I don't think it will ever be broken. Here I am rambling..the positive is that you have a great rhythm and tone and voice for this and very well informed and entertaining! Keep up the good work! on to the next vid!
I always thought that the implication with Sauromon turning evil was his messing with the planatir while Sauron was linked to it. He touched Sauron's mind and part of it rubbed off on him.
Vojta Jech It is definitely possible, but because the Ring is a product of Sauron, we can't be sure that he would be so much greater than the creator of the One. Thank you for watching!
@@MenoftheWest it was also stated as possible outcome if the ring were to be lost, Saruman would eventually have made his own version and ruled middle earth.
I think it is actually quite likely that he would've been "stronger" for several reasons. First, the Maiar were not cookie cutter spirits and variety in abilities and power existed innately within them. Second after Melkor corrupted Sauron to his service, he may have enhanced Sauron's power along with his knowledge. The reason I say this is because Melkor had a habit of putting some of his own power into his followers to strengthen them. The first explicit example was Ungoliant when they assaulted the two trees in Valinor. Later he fed a werewolf of his own flesh (hand) to make it the greatest to ever exist and sent it out to fight Huan, the hound of Valinor. Although it's never explicitly stated, it is not unreasonable to surmise that he would have enhanced Sauron's power, as he was his chief lieutenant. As Tolkien wrote of him "In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself." Thirdly, we know that Sauron put the greater part of his strength into the One Ring because to control all of the others, it had to be a thing of surpassing potency. We don't know what % of his strength that may be but, it's high enough that if destroyed, he would be reduced to a harmless spirit of malice never to arise again. While there's no Maiar power scale, I would think that 100% of Gandalf + the vast majority of Sauron would be greater than Sauron alone. I also think that Gandalf would be wholly corrupted by the ring and ultimately, would become another Dark Lord. He would be changed completely and forever. His kindness would become cruelty, his understanding become intolerance, his value of others replaced by an unceasing will to dominate all other forms of life, while attributing to them absolutely no value. He could wield the ring for purposes that align with its nature, but never truly master it. I think that in many ways, the Ring would master him. I also think he knew that, which is why he rejected it.
"...it is best to live lives of simpler means and rather than desire power or rule others, become compassionate advisors to one another who give knowledge and wisdom rather than to be a force of will over someone else." Well said!
I have read just about everything about middle earth started when I was fifteen I am now fifty eight and I read everything again about every three or four years but I really like these links thank you
Enjoying this series. One minor nitpick. At around 15:25 you say that Celeborn sailed west with Galadriel, Gandalf, Elrond, Bilbo and Frodo, but the references I can find say that he did not sail west with Galadriel. He stayed in Middle Earth, living in Rivendell with Elrond's sons for a while before he sailed west. What I can't find is a date for his sailing, but the references I can find imply that he sailed west years after Galadriel did.
I believe I read that Lorien faded after Galadriel's ring failed. Celeborn founded a new Lorien on the eastern side of the Anduin, but that eventually faded. But I can't remember where I read this, annoyingly!
@@Zothaqqua the Foreword and the Appendices. In the Foreword Tolkien specifically mentions that Celeborn quit the east altogether and moved to Rivendell with Elrond's sons and then one day went to the havens (presumably with them)
I love lotr and the hobbit and i'm pretty sad they're both done. I'm hoping for another sequel but i'm afraid not. nice videos man love them keep up the great work and keep growing cause you deserve it.
Marco The Mexican seeing gandalf as a guardian angel along with the other istari, sauron as a high ranking fallen angel, and morgoth(melkor) as a Lucifer figure helps contextualise a lot of events and better understand Tolkien
@@connerscruggsvlogz2113 The Valar are lesser gods than the creator but still gods. Some call them angels but they are actually gods akin to the gods of Olympus. The Maia are even lesser gods. You could call them archangels of a sort.
Men of the West is the only channel i subscribe in youtube, honestly. I love listening to it every night before i go to sleep. J.R.R. Tolkien is one of a kind, like, the rare kind. Some day we'll listen to him telling his tales in the next life, hopefully.
Discovered your channel recently but I have already watched loads of these lore videos. I love the story telling, attention to detail and the artwork too. So just wanted to say really well done and keep up the good work! 😊
I LOVE YOUR ARTWORK...MIXED IN WITH IMAGES FROM THE FILMS... i'M NOT A TOLKIEN SCHOLAR BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME AS IF YOU HAVE THIS MATERIAL DOWN COLD, DUDE! CONGRATS!
NEVERTHELESS, YOU HAVE TO SEEK IT OUT, SELECT WHICH IMAGES WORK BEST FOR YOUR STORY, AND YOU FIND AWESOME IMAGES, ILLUSTRATIONS AND PAINTINGS THAT BRING YOUR VIDEOS TO LIFE! (Was I yelling?...apologies!)
Happy Anniversary. 3 years off excellent work and knowledge. Tolkien started this religion and your keeping the candle burning with your content. Roll on 2018
Maybe they'll show the Blue Wizards in the show that Amazon is making. It would be fascinating if they showed some of the unseen but well-known characters, such as Glorfindel and the Blue Wizards.
Saruman got all "5th column" on Gandalf, spying and eavesdropping, sending sleuths when his own stalking and impersonating became obvious. Sensing himself less than his rival, and bitter, he naturally revealed that evil is a compulsion toward no Good.
Well done on your production. This is a discerning audience and you Craft a worthy product. And thank you!!!! You do the work, I just listened in ease.
Great vids. Still think you should do a fan fiction of what happened when Gandalf, Frodo, Galadriel etc touched down in the undying lands. Or when the Istari reached Middle Earth - give us some Blue Wizard dialogue.
“I am Saruman... or Saruman as he should’ve have been.” That line gives me chills every time man.
That was his Drag Stage Name! What a colorful guy....
why?
In conclusion: only one of the Istari was able to competently complete the mission. The 'leader' turned against the order, another developed an obsession with small animals, and the other two wandered off to Eru knows where.
Thank you
Ahahhah Eru, sounds like you - if u get it u get it
I like to think that the two blue wizards died fighting Sauron and his minions in the east. Maybe they rallied the good of the men of the east and fought and died nobly against the evils of the east.
@@lordofthered1257 where did it imply they died sorry have not read much about them so I always assumed their presence was more of like this is only a small part of the world and those 2 are off doing stuff in the other parts of the world we simply dont know much about
Not true. Radaghasts relations with the forces and races of nature allows Gandalf to learn how to speak to and befriend Eagles, and just about every other sentient force of the forest (ents and such). He’s rather like a mild Tom Bombadil, that is able and willing to interact and affect his surroundings.
I have studied Middle Earth lore very deeply since I was 15. I'm 50 now. I've read everything, thought deeply about it all and remember many things. All of this notwithstanding, I still learned from this tube. Very well done and kudos to you for your (respected) level of knowledge.
Very Nice that there are 50 year old people watching this i hope you have a good day.
This made me think of Gandalf saying this at the Gates of Moria:
"I once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs, that was ever used for such a purpose. I can still remember ten score of them without searching in my mind."
@@laramieseattlewrennwkbthta4007 The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe (the first Narnia book to be written) came around in the 50s. By this point Lewis was most certainly a Defender of the Faith. And some of the scenes in that are way too opaque references it not to be a Christ similar.
I noticed That sauruman is named after souron
Why
The fact the Sauron and Saruman had been mentored by the same Valar is an awesome detail.
What I love about Gandalf is that he can go from being a powerful and authorative figure, who offers counsel and foresight to all the different peoples of Middle Earth, to being a guy who can chill and smoke weed with his hobbit buddies in the shire. Might be my favourite fictional character ever.
@Audiochannel32 Something funny is definitely in it XD
@Audiochannel32 its tobacco..but they act like its some cali shit 😂
how on earth did he have an entire ficitonal universe in his head.its so detailed it could be a history book.could you imagine having this imagination.
Mens and thier fetish
OLD BIRD CHOZO yes but those were made by countless people, this was all by ONE MAN!
Tolkien was a philologist. He was curious of many old stories.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philology
It really is not that difficult especially if you are writing fiction from scratch and everything is made up. Then you’ve so countless sources to draw up inspiration from. Then all you need to do is have some imagination, bit of critical thinking, and copious amounts of will to commit yourself to writing project. You can come up with ideas, that’s easy; but implementing them and fleshing them out is an effort.
For that you need patience and, again, strong sense of commitment. You’ll hit a snag & you’ll encounter points where you want to give up, but all that he wrote is very much doable with strong dedication, some imagination & bit of keen research skills.
I’m saying it all rather too succinctly but it gets the point across.
It is a whole other Dimension.
"Saruman started smoking hobbit pipe weed like Gandalf" lolol
That's hilarious that Saruman was trying to be cool like Gandalf
And the valar said, "are you smoking, saruman"
And saruman replied "all the cool kids are doing it!"
@@elazarsinger4187 Saruman: I'm expressing my individuality!!!
He did so in secret while also simultaneously loudly criticizing Gandalf for smoking it. The guy was just a total jerk.
Im convinced cs lewis tried to get Tolkien to smoke a joint but Tolkien declined lmao. The weed dynamic of this book is so out of place, but so fitting
@@elazarsinger4187 Not true, fucking liar, I read the books
I lost it at "Saruman of many colors"
I can just imagine him walking out of Isengard in a rainbow 🌈 colored robe 😂😂😂
Pro LGBT😂
*wields a rainbow flag instead of a staff*
Watch the 1977 movie it's funny.
You joke, but don't you know that Saruman was the first LGBT+ supporter among the wizards?
@@NeroCM that's why his follower Uruk-Hai only male
My fun fact: after reading The Hobbit in high school, I fell in love with JRR Tolkien. So when I saw an ad in a magazine in college for a set of LOTR books in leather for sale for 40 bucks a piece, I had to have them. It took me forever to pay them off but, to this day, 25 or so years later, they are still my most treasured possession.
That is so cool. I purchased a three volume set of the lord of the rings as a teen in 1979 or so. I read them so many times over the years, in good times and bad. I still have them to this day. Sadly, my Two Towers book split in half it was read so often, then lost somehow, never to be seen again. They are dogeared and the pages are yellow, but I treasure them over all the books I own, which are many.
@@Jelsick wow, u can start a course on the lore
so cute !!!
Fun fact : this is a not a fun fact.
@@DanceySteveYNWA i said its “MY” fun fact.
This was beautiful. When you started describing Gandalf and the music started playing in the background, it really touched my heart. Gandalf is the grandpa and wise mentor we all wish we had.
"or that Saruman murdered the blue wizards and never spoke of it again" :P
Considering the Easterlings didn't bring wizards with them during the war, that is pretty much the only logical explanation.
majesticlizard or they just didn't care anymore and decided to get high on mushrooms in the woods like Radagast
Notta chance. He was still in servant mode at the time. Maybe Jesus H Christ killed them?
What about balrogs still existing their and they killed them?
Nah Saruman was loyal to the cause at the time. The blue wizards were simply not written about because they were far away from the events that were written about.
I wish Chris Tolkien would fill out the travels of the Blue wizards....
Patrick Guiett Me too! That would be fantastic! Though he would have to make up his own lore to add to his father's, and some people might not be too happy about that. I would love to see what he would come up with though!
Very unlikely to happen. It would be more likely that he would publish the full form of the Fall of Gondolin, the last of the 'three great stories' of the Silmarillion, and the one he said had to be compressed for that publication. But his forward to Beren and Luthien says he thinks that will be his final work. He does not seen to view himself as an author, but rather as a curator of his father's work.
Claystead What is your native tongue? The way you write English is better than I can ever dream of achieving. It's honestly beautiful.
Christopher has been spending all these years editing and publishing his father's papers, so I think it unlikely at this late date that he would actually write anything of his own. Based on what has already been published, Tolkien had very little to say about the Blue Wizards and I think it unlikely that his son has kept anything significant back on the subject.
I've always wanted to know the stories of the Blue wizards travels to the east, although I doubt anything will ever come of it, sadly enough...
9:10 - Saruman did talk about his disdain for Radagast. He described him as "Radagast the Simple" to Gandalf in the exchange where he reveals his new identity as "Saruman of Many Colours"
Radagast was more hippy than wizard
@@scottmantooth8785
In the words of Gandalf:
"Radagast is, of course, a worthy Wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue; and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."
As a new Tolkien fan I wanted to thank you for all these videos! It’s super nice to listen to these and get a deeper understanding of the lore!
I always imagined that one of the 2 blue wizards turned evil like Saruman and the other one tried to stop him like Gandalf, so the 2 blue wizards were duking it out in the east during the war of the ring.
That's a good idea yah
Interesting though Tolkien assumes both remained good and were in the east stoping Sauron
Saruman and Grima did not "escape by hidden means". They were released from captivity in Orthanc by Treebeard who had been appointed his gaoler by Gandalf, when he, Treebeard, was satisfied his power was diminished . But Gandalf speculated that some of Saruman's verbal persuasiveness had remained and influenced Treebeard's decision. As detailed in the Chapter "Many Partings" in Return of the King (page 313 in my edition);
"I observe, my good Fangorn," said Gandalf, "that with great care you say dwelt, was, grew. What about this? Is he dead?"
"No, not dead, so far as I know," said Treebeard. "But he is gone. Yes, he is gone seven days. I let him go. There was little left of him when he crawled out, and as for that worm-creature of his, he was like a pale shadow. Now do not tell me, Gandalf, that I promised to keep him safe; for I know it. But things have changed since then. And I kept him until he was safe, safe from doing any more harm. You should know that above all I hate the caging of live things, and I will not keep even such creatures as these caged beyond great need. A snake without fangs may crawl where he will"
"You may be right," said Gandalf; "but this snake had still one tooth left , I think. He had the poison of his voice, and I guess her persuaded you, even you Treebeard, knowing the soft spot in your heart. Well, he is gone and there is no more to be said."
I'm just about to finish reading The Fellowship of the Ring and now I'm here.
I haven't even watched the trilogy for LOTR yet
John Miguel Sadiasa - Definitely do the books first! The films are great, but I do feel that they have come to be the primary telling for many people, but that should always belong to the books.
@@willmosse3684 I succumbed to the temptation of the film
John Miguel Sadiasa - Lol. Well, no worries. The films are very good too. But defo stick with the books for the real deal!
Great vid. I would mention that Gandalf's chief Master was the Valar Estë, wife of Irmo, whose domain was the healing of weariness and that while he was Olorin in Valinor he spent much time with the Valar Nienna, who weeps for the world and whose domain was mercy.
Such that the domain of the Maiar Olorin/Gandalf was the healing of sorrow and despair, uplifting hearts toward hope. (The same power as Narya)
Damn,,, Tolkien is quite a writer. This series is way deeper than I thought
Quite a writer is an understatement haha
@Justin Last it's really not difficult to read at all though lol.
The dialogue is especially fun to read
Did you read the books ? They give great detail in the footnotes. It's been a while since I read them. I need to read them again.
@Justin Last "unreadable" lmfaooooo.
@Justin Last Someone needs to work on their reading skills.
Good video, but one problem: Gandalf wasn't sent back by the Valar. The Valar's plan ultimately failed and he was sent back by Eru himself.
He was sent back by the people who sent him, namely the Valar.
Gandalf states that after he died he "passed out of time and space" where the Valar couldn't go. He was in the realm of Eru. Therefore Eru sent him back to complete his mission, Eru also restored some of the power Gandalf was unable to use before.
@@jeremyihlang1759
This makes perfect sense, thank you for pointing it out.
So Gandalf the White is basically "Istar Restricted 75%" when the two others were "Restricted 90%"
(or Saruman Of Many Colors was maybe "85%" 😉)
@@mrj.kottari8453 if you wanna read a new writers work. Click me. He has a majik staff to and his is really strong! He is so powerful and beautiful. Go to him
@@SantomPh No, it was Eru
I love how you used a young Ian McKellen for Olórin.
Omg I did not appreciate that watching this the first time, thanks for pointing it out!
Looking like a 70's rock star.
He did the same with Christopher Lee
Also with Sylvester Mccoy, looks just like him when he was still the 7th doctor
I wish we had more info on the blue wizards. Idk why but they intrigue me so much
Same here, if Amazon Prime are indeed bringing Lord Of The Rings to TV pretty soon?! I hope the new series is based upon them.
Create your own history. You never know...people might like it. But do your research and history. Think of how it will all fall into place. This guy creates his own story line. Which I love
@@MGSBigBoss77 Err it won't be. The Istari didn't exist on Middlr Earth till the start of of the 3rd age.
@@JohnnyZenith And yet even the Simarillion undoes this partially however. When told with several buildups to later events in the series chronologically.
@@MGSBigBoss77 If you are interested in the Blue Wizards, it is because they are enigmatic and you don't know anything about them. If they explained everything to you, they would stop being interesting. They shouldn't make up anything Tolkien didn't write.
A very interesting thing is that the Five Wizards are inspired by the Five Patriarchs of the Catholic Church, the Pentarchy. The Pentarchy was composed by the five major episcopal sees of the Roman Empire: Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.
The bishops of these sees are the Patriarchs and the Roman Patriarch, aka the Pope, is the leader of the Pentarchy. The White Wizard is inspired by the popes, always dressed in white.
Tokien was a devout catholic and Tolkien's universe has deep roots in catholic theology. As I studied theology, the compreension of the LOTR universe was totaly open to me.
Because he used the number 5... quite a stretch, maybe so maybe not... real important thing is idk if anybody cares either way... why take something awesome and try and compare it to curropt modern religion WHY?!
Bob Saget , catholicism is not a modern religion, it has 2000 years. Mister Tolkien was a devout catholic, and in his letters he wrote about the catholic theology in LOTR's universe.
If you do not like, pacience.
Nemanja Petrovic If you studied orthodoxy, you might know they call themselves "catholic" as well. So, from my perspective or from yours, Catholic Church is 2000 years old.
Roman catholics had some bad popes, but saying Saruman represents all popes is a distortion from your orthodox perspective. If we count, all great heresies came from East, like nesthorianism, arianism, marcionism etc. Nestorius was the patriarch of Constantinople, and was a great heresiarch.
Gandalf was the symbol of the little who becomes a giant in the Eyes of the Lord. He was put in the place of Saruman to clean the "church" from his treason.
Tolkien was a good catholic, and Gandalf is the Pope, successor of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles.
So Sauron is the Pope..?
Funny, as how he, himself (Tolkien) said nothing he wrote was seeped in anything other that writing a decent mythology for England. He loathed allegory, and was quoted saying "I despise it whever I smell it". The entirety of Middle Earth has zero to do with Catholisism and everything to do with his love for ancient languages and regional mythos.
Hey everyone, I hope you all enjoyed the video, I just have a quick correction here! I do not believe Saruman actually conjured any of the storms (that I mention at 9:40) in the Redhorn Pass during the Fellowship of the Ring in the books! I believe the storms of the mountain Caradhras itself defeated the Fellowship of the Ring. Also, Celeborn went into the West sometime after Gandalf and the others did. Sorry for the mistakes! Thank you for the support!
The book and the movie differ on this point. In the book, the mountain defeated the Company. In the movie, Saruman created the storm.
It was indeed Caradhras that troubled them, but I've always inferred that the mountain itself was motivated and moved towards evil by the will of Saruman. I don't recall another reason being given for its enmity.
@ 9:23, in first movie, the Fellowship, it was a giant eagle that saved Gandalf from the top platform of Eisen guard. Are you saying it was a Nazgul named Quahear in the book? 🤨 🤯 🤔
@@T69873 GWAIHIR was the name of the Great Eagle, I believe.
Chad Mensan Oh, I see. Thought I had also misspelled his name. Welp thanks for that and good night! 💤😴
"The Blue Wizards travel into the East of Middle-earth with Saruman. Saruman returns to the North West, but the Blue Wizards do not."
no, they tried defeating some lord of khand or harad, i think the variags killed them in the end, but im not sure
@@kimli3733 Where did you read that? A fanfic?
What would have been Saruman's motivation to turn on the wizards or otherwise make sure that they don't return (as you imply) at that point though? Saruman didn't seem as corruptible to completely turn on other wizards then, right?
Haha, I also considered that Saruman might have done something to the Blue Wizards, but it's not believed that he had been corrupted during his time with them in the East. Ultimately, the fate of the Blue Wizards was not only unclear to start but was apparently only partially revised by Tolkein. In his notes he originally wrote that they had failed like Saruman but in different ways. In a much later letter, he wrote that they had indeed been successful in splintering the Easterlings and keeping them from bringing their full number to Sauron's aid at the end of the Third Age. However, if the latter were the case, why was Gandalf the only wizard to return to Valinor after the defeat of Sauron? Even if the Blue Wizards had been slain, as Gandalf was during his fight with the Balrog, why were they not resurrected like Gandalf, especially if their mission was on point? Even if the Valar had decided that they were no longer needed in Middle-earth, their spirits -- which could only be destroyed by Eru -- should have returned to Valinor. The only thing that should have prevented that was if they had fallen into Darkness and been forsworn like Saruman. Tolkein seemed to change his mind about the success of their mission but did not rewrite the part about only Gandalf returning to Valinor. Perhaps this was an oversight, or he had not yet committed to the change.
@@michaelcrouthers8857 Excellent analysis / comment. Personally, I suspect that the story of the the blue wizards' role / fate was something that Tolkien (you mixed up the "i" and "e" by the way, haha) intentionally left ambiguous, and might have made slight alterations to later on only to further this purpose - not with the ultimate aim to bring clarity to their characters.
It's not hard to find a RUclips video about Tolkien's writings, but sometimes it IS hard to find a good one. I count this among the VERY good ones. I know of nothing that was missed or misrepresented, and I'm a life-long aficionado of 44 years. Furthermore, I'm heartened and impressed by the attention to detail that you've exhibited with your follow-up comment regarding the Fellowship's approach of the Redhorn Pass. I shall look forward to more of your excellent work in the future. Thank you.
Hey everyone, I hope you enjoy this video! Let me know what you think down below! I tried some new options with my mic to adjust to a volume problem someone told me about, so if it's different, that's why. Hopefully it doesn't affect the quality of the video! Enjoy and thank you all as always!
I love getting off work on the night shift and coming home to these! keep them coming!
Great work as always, you've shown your knowledge. And following on from the end of the video, can you do a character history on Gandalf? Thanks.
Peredhil H I'll add it to the video list :) Thank you for watching!
Salazar Ravenclaw Happy I can provide them for you! I will! Thanks for watching!
Men of the West Ah that was epic... and I thought I knew everything there was to know with the Istari
Hey man love the content I'm a newbie. One of my favourite parts is your ending where you say what we can learn (as LOTR is archetypal) the music gets all optimistic. I find myself watching and feeling better afterwards so thank you.Keep up the good work!!!
Man, this video went really into depth and filled in a lot of blanks I needed filled in. Thank you so much.
I'm only seeing this 2 years after it was originally posted but omg I love it.
It's a bit along but I was never bored.
I'm also glad that you kept on mentioning that their main power is with their voice and at advising. Now I feel I better understand the wizards.
Thank you very much!
(you got another subscriber here)
I have watched several of your videos and have enjoyed every minute. I also read all the books many years ago so I appreciate the refresher. Keep up the great work!
I love how the story goes to great lengths to completely nerf wizards in advance, because Tolkien knows they would be completely OP and destroy everything if allowed to make unchecked gains of power lmao.
The good guys always have to follow a strict code of ethics, otherwise the story would be just two sets of bad guys fighting for domination.
Fat Fuck it means to substantially weaken. It’s in reference to the fact that Nerf guns are substantially weaker than actual guns. Therefore, when a gun was weakened in any game, it felt like a nerf gun
@5567 5555 Exactly. Valar and Maiar fighting on Arda wrecked continents. The Maiar had to be restricted to protect the people, otherwise the fight might destroy everything it was supposed to save.
Still kinda weird that "power" in TLoTR is mostly symbolical.
@@sketep1117 Well by the time the War of the Ring was fought, there was much lessening of power and magic, the Fourth Age was an age without magic and what happened in the First and Second Ages could no longer be replicated or achieved.
Hmmm. i think a video on the mysterious creatures of middle earth like the watcher of the water and the great beasts would be a good idea.
FinJproductions That is a great idea! I'd love to do that and compile what we know for you all! Thank you for watching!
Men of the West Thanks. It's good how you take ideas from your viewers.
Some others to add: Barrow wights and Shelob. Also, have you done a character history on Sauron?
I am so happy to see how this channel has grown.
So passionate, so unique, utterly dedicated to the truth of the Lore while infused with an inquisitive, reasoned and informed perspective on elements that are open to interpretation.
Your voice is very easy to listen to and the effort that goes into piecing together the, frequently, disparate and discombobulated fictional history whilst still keeping the videos succinct is singular among the Lotr Lore videos of RUclips and very much appreciated.
Absolutely love your videos. Thank you for your time in making them.
As a big fan of the LotR lore I'm glad I found this channel! Good commentary and very in-depth. Subscribed!
Fascinating video, it reminds of the long conversations I would have with my uncle about this kind of stuff, he is well-versed in Tolkien lore.
The white and Blue Wizards left; only the White Wizard returned, who ended up aligning with Sauron... Perhaps he killed them... you never know
I would love to see a movie on "the turning of sarumon" imagine a movie of him and the blue wizards going on an adventure, sarumon slowly being corrupted and at the end sarumon failing to turn the blue wizards after he had become fully corrupt and then one crazy wizard battle where he kills both blue wizards *cries* it would be such a good / sad movie.
@Romeo Gomes their spirits would return to the valar yes but effectively they would be removed from the whole scenario which is basically the same thing. Tweak it to them being imprisoned and tortured/just locked away. Either way it could be a neat movie idea if executed well
Actually, Saruman never aligned himself with Sauron. He wanted to overthrow Sauron and win the Ring for himself.
@@sionjames8064 Bruh for real? I've been so wrong for so long LMFAO! Wow that's sad, this whole time I thought they were in some kind of bromance. LMAO
Edit: Thank you!
@@Jayman1329 Sauron was literally gonna replace Saruman with the weird mouth dude if he got to rebuild Orthanc.
Great breakdown! LOTR totally brings out my inner "nerd"! I'm 43 and grew up during D&D's hay day. I have always loved the fantasy genre and I've read LOTR once a year every year since Junior High! I watch the extended cut of each movie back to back over the course of a weekend once a year also! I've now added the extended cuts of the Hobbit to my annual "Nerd Out"! LOL Glad I found your channel and dig your content!
Thank you so very much for all the enlightenment you brought to the stories. Being an avid reader of Tolkien I still heard many things from you I didn't know. Keep your posts coming they are most enjoyable.
I love finding a good lore channel on different subjects late at night
Playing Lord of the Rings Online, I created a character who was called Oerick. His backstory was that he was actually Alatar, one of the blue wizards who had travelled into the east. There, they were both tempted by the darkness, as Saruman was. Alatar resisted after great effort, but Pallando fell into darkness and struck his companion down. As happened with Gandalf, Alatar was restored to life. His restoration, however, left him weak and nearly powerless, forcing him to learn his place in the world. Even his true identity was unknown to him.
I thought it was a nifty origin story that still held true to the lore...
STNeish
that game is really immersive and it's always a pleasure to roleplay trying to write the most fitting backstory for your char .
What game is that???
@@silverdragon710 lord of the rings online. It's about 10yrs old and not as full of people but it is a great came definitely worth playing and paying for. It is free to play but the monthly VIP is worth it. It has an immersive lore and amazing story. Join the Crickhollow server, you'll be welcomed!
Logan Fowler Hey thanks!
I actually had a pet theory that the Blue Wizards went on to appear in Disney films. Alatar became Yensid in Fantasia (1940) and Pallando became Merlin in Sword in the Stone (1963).
amazing
The Disney empire works using a profound dishonesty which can not be contrived in Middle Earth.
@@g.thomashart9368 Tell that to Melkor, Sauron, and Saruman.
I like that theory :) it’s pretty cute. I love theory’s that aren’t necessarily viable but are certainly fun to ponder on
@@AWMK101 I agree. I imagine if Disney adapted or acquired The Hobbit and The Lord of Rings movies (humor me on this) I imagine Kingdom Hearts would have put two and two together and added Middle-earth to the multiple worlds you visit in the games and connected Yensid and Merlin to that. Hey, they already had Christopher Lee voicing in Kingdom Hearts 2, so they would have said: "Hey, Mr. Lee, how would you like to reprise Saruman the White?"
Got like 1000+ subs in a week? Congrats man!
First a new GoT episode and now a new LOTR video of you, great way to start the morning.
If you want another idea for a new video, maybe beasts of Middle-Earth/Arda? Like something about the eagles, spiders, dogs, cats, etc. I recently started reading Beren and Lúthien, although Beren and Tinúviel would have been a better name imo, and encountered names of such creatures as Huan, Tivildo, Karkaras, which gave me this idea.
Grey Eyes Thank you so much Grey Eyes! I loved the new episode of GoT by the way haha. That is a great suggestion, I'll add it to the list. Have a good one my friend, and thank you as always for your support!
I think that would be a great idea. You might want to read up on the silmarillion as that provides information on those characters. The spiders were the spawn of Ungoliant, Killer of the Two Trees of Valinor. Huan was a gift to Celegorm by Oromis. The Eagles were created by Manwe to keep watch over Middle Earth. I think the cats and dogs are native to Middle Earth but don't quote me on that. I also that it wouldn't matter much whether it was Beren and Luthien or Beren and Tinuviel as the are the same elf.
Thank you for filling in the gaps for me and my girl. Making videos like this, makes people want to read everything he has done. Great work friends keep it up please.
Dude you gotta keep this videos going, i can't stop watching. In the day when i work i have my headphones on and work while listening and the day goes so fast!
I think a video on the First Age elf Ecthelion and/or on the structure and leaders of Gondolin would be cool.
The fountain part was just too cool. To me, it is the most memorable part of the Silmarillion next to Fingolfin's death and Glorfindel's sacrifice.
Top of the orthanc was a rather stupid place to imprison Gandalf.. Gave him a view of samruams entire operation.
Maybe that was Saruman's plan, If he was convinced that Gandalf had (or could have) a thirst of power similar to his, having him see such a display of power would maybe convince Gandalf to join him.
Maybe it’s just me but how does Saruman get on top? It’s not clearly shown or explained in the movies, I’m assuming that there is a staircase somewhere....
Samruams?
Stuart Watkin he gets to the top by using the uber birds app.
@@stuartwatkin3969 He went serious wizard mode.
I think the real lesson of Gandalf was that to succeed we must begin our journey in humility. Of all the wizards Gandalf was the only one to openly acknowledge that he could not face this threat alone, and admit the fear within himself. He was the only one to befriend and learn and teach the peoples he encountered. Compassion, hope and humility are what enable Gandalf's success.
I love the fact that you infer deep lessons on the topic. Thank you.
I just want to say thank you, for all of your wonderful videos. I love Tolkien's legendarium, and you never make like noisy, horrid videos about it. Just calm, informative ones. And I appreciate that. I like to watch them before I sleep. Sort of like a lullaby, sending be to a different place, while also learning. Thanks.
HOORAY! I've been waiting for this!
markjupiter4 Glad I could deliver! :)
You said Gandald gives hope, wisdom and knowledge, so everyone can be a Gandalf! That's so cool!
I honestly would like to see a new Trilogy about the two blue Wizards. And their Journey to the east
Even though years have passed since the release of the films, it is video finds and effort from people like this that take me back, right there in that movie theater seat, trying to pick my jaw up from the floor after not blinking while watching one of the greatest adventures and movie franchises ever made. Thank you for expanding on what we thought we knew as well as keeping that adventure alive, even today.
Thank you for such an astute elaboration on this topic. I have read all the books, including, of course, The Simarillian, many times. However, this video helped tremendously in clearing up some confusion regarding the multiple names of important characters and their role in Tolkien’s earlier works. I read all Tolkien’s Middle Earth books over 35 years ago and then again about 10 years ago. Yet, I still kept some unanswered questions at the back of my mind. Thank you for your excellent research and work creating this condensing and compilation in regards to answering these nagging questions for me. Well done!
Subbed to your channel a few days ago, didn't realise it was this new. I love lord of the Rings and I love these videos :) keep it up!
Lewis123454x Thank you very much! I will!
Men of the West, your Videos are enlighting my day. Thanks for your work. I realy love the World of Tolkien and know nearly everythin interesting about it. But your Videos are showing parts I nerver really imagined. And becouse this world is no longer expanding your " What if " Videos are a real pleasure to watch.
Florian Schmitt Thank you very much. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch my videos! I'm happy I can help open the world of Tolkien to you all!
The thing I really like about Tolkien's wizards is that in many ways they're quite limited. They can perform magic, but not Harry Potter magic. They can bend the rules of Middle Earth but not break them. While not weak they are vulnerable, an Orc pack can pose a serious threat to a wizard.
How can I like this video 100 times!!? Thank you! And thank you for your personal insights at the end of the video!
Such thoroughness, excellence, and pride of work. As a lover of both great friends Tolkien and the great CS Lewis, you did them proud! Thanks so much!
Saruman suspecting Gandalf of going after power is like Fudge suspecting Dumbledore of wanting to become the minister of magic
Thats right because he was scared 😱 that Dumbledore is better than fudge
YOUVE CHOSEN A GREAT COMMUNITY TO MAKE VIDEOS FOR. THESE ARE ALL THINGS US MEGA FANS HAVE WONDERED FOR *20 YEARS* NOW LOL! THANK YOU!!!!
#LOTRLORE
Celeborn did not leave with Galadriel. He remained on Middle Earth into the 4th Age for a while.
Thanks!
I just found this channel and it is VERY good. Thanks, man.
There is so much room for a story for the blue wizards being in the east.
One dislike for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
Grey Eyes 😂
Men of the West I highly recommend nightfall on middle Earth by blind guardian. They have so much about tolkiens work. Check them out. Thank you very much for these videos keep it up buddy.
I'm actually a HUGE fan of the fantasy "Space Series" of CS Lewis; the allegory chokes me with it's truth, with the steampunk technology of the the time of it's writing even.
The lessons of the trilogy is what does it: The Will to Power, the psychological lessons, the lesson of the 'other' addressed, the lesson of addiction addressed and its power obviated in the first pulp-fiction-esque Lewis wanted to achieve and maintain in the short trilogy . The space series is all what Lewis and Tolkien were saying - the both of them - for all their lives.
Out Of the Silent Planet, Perelandra and That Hideous Strength. Don't be a stranger to these books, anachronistic as they may seem on first blush. Times turn.
hey! i like dark powers in tolkien's world, and i still do like this video! thats racist what u just said xD
You're a good story teller! I still wonder what happened to Blue Wizards and Radagast though. And Aulë should really take better care of his Maiar
Radagast died
blue wizards killed by saruman
Best 18:26 I ever spent watching a video. Now to spend the rest of the morning watching the other videos you have up. Keep it up! Hope more people find this channel
Added and now on a binge! First vid I've seen of yours, I'll leave a positive and a negative comment negative..also kind of positive is that I've had to rewind to catch and process but that's probably just me, I'm quite rusty as I haven't read any of them ( I have a decent collection..a book of his letters?lost letters? Silmarillion of course, his short tales.. biographies etc)..he was quite the influence and one of my favorite authors, it's a tie between Tolkien or Douglas Adams and I don't think it will ever be broken. Here I am rambling..the positive is that you have a great rhythm and tone and voice for this and very well informed and entertaining! Keep up the good work! on to the next vid!
I always thought that the implication with Sauromon turning evil was his messing with the planatir while Sauron was linked to it. He touched Sauron's mind and part of it rubbed off on him.
I love the fact that it is said that if the Gandalf took the ring he would be stronger than sauron
Vojta Jech It is definitely possible, but because the Ring is a product of Sauron, we can't be sure that he would be so much greater than the creator of the One. Thank you for watching!
You're wellcome men of the west you are my favorite account on youtube
I completely disagree as the ring would never be in full allegiance with Gandalf and would be just as powerful but corrupted
@@MenoftheWest it was also stated as possible outcome if the ring were to be lost, Saruman would eventually have made his own version and ruled middle earth.
I think it is actually quite likely that he would've been "stronger" for several reasons. First, the Maiar were not cookie cutter spirits and variety in abilities and power existed innately within them. Second after Melkor corrupted Sauron to his service, he may have enhanced Sauron's power along with his knowledge.
The reason I say this is because Melkor had a habit of putting some of his own power into his followers to strengthen them. The first explicit example was Ungoliant when they assaulted the two trees in Valinor. Later he fed a werewolf of his own flesh (hand) to make it the greatest to ever exist and sent it out to fight Huan, the hound of Valinor. Although it's never explicitly stated, it is not unreasonable to surmise that he would have enhanced Sauron's power, as he was his chief lieutenant. As Tolkien wrote of him "In
all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself."
Thirdly, we know that Sauron put the greater part of his strength into the One Ring because to control all of the others, it had to be a thing of surpassing potency. We don't know what % of his strength that may be but, it's high enough that if destroyed, he would be reduced to a harmless spirit of malice never to arise again. While there's no Maiar power scale, I would think that 100% of Gandalf + the vast majority of Sauron would be greater than Sauron alone.
I also think that Gandalf would be wholly corrupted by the ring and ultimately, would become another Dark Lord. He would be changed completely and forever. His kindness would become cruelty, his understanding become intolerance, his value of others replaced by an unceasing will to dominate all other forms of life, while attributing to them absolutely no value. He could wield the ring for purposes that align with its nature, but never truly master it. I think that in many ways, the Ring would master him. I also think he knew that, which is why he rejected it.
in the movie smeagol had the ring of sauron for 500 years, it gave him unnatural long life, has stated on the fellowship of the ring.
Your voice is so amazing and I've loved lotrs since I was a kid, these videos are often the best part of my day :) hope they continue.
"...it is best to live lives of simpler means and rather than desire power or rule others, become compassionate advisors to one another who give knowledge and wisdom rather than to be a force of will over someone else."
Well said!
I have read just about everything about middle earth started when I was fifteen I am now fifty eight and I read everything again about every three or four years but I really like these links thank you
Enjoying this series. One minor nitpick. At around 15:25 you say that Celeborn sailed west with Galadriel, Gandalf, Elrond, Bilbo and Frodo, but the references I can find say that he did not sail west with Galadriel. He stayed in Middle Earth, living in Rivendell with Elrond's sons for a while before he sailed west. What I can't find is a date for his sailing, but the references I can find imply that he sailed west years after Galadriel did.
I believe I read that Lorien faded after Galadriel's ring failed. Celeborn founded a new Lorien on the eastern side of the Anduin, but that eventually faded. But I can't remember where I read this, annoyingly!
@@Zothaqqua the Foreword and the Appendices. In the Foreword Tolkien specifically mentions that Celeborn quit the east altogether and moved to Rivendell with Elrond's sons and then one day went to the havens (presumably with them)
your channel is really awesome! keep it up! :)
JediSpartan 127 Thank you so much, I will! :)
Great job on the analysi. Love the way Gandalf and Saruman started out as friends/rivals and eventually became dramatic foils to all.
Honestly don't know how I've not come across this interesting vids before.. I'm hooked.
I love lotr and the hobbit and i'm pretty sad they're both done.
I'm hoping for another sequel but i'm afraid not.
nice videos man love them keep up the great work and keep growing cause you deserve it.
Tv series is coming!
Going back and watching the Lotr knowing Gandalf is basically an angel, it changed the whole movie.
I don't know if angel is the correct term, but yes, he was a Maia, a divine being
Paul Austin essentially the same thing just middle earth version.
Paul Austin considering Tolkien was a devout catholic, he probably had angels in mind.
Marco The Mexican seeing gandalf as a guardian angel along with the other istari, sauron as a high ranking fallen angel, and morgoth(melkor) as a Lucifer figure helps contextualise a lot of events and better understand Tolkien
@@connerscruggsvlogz2113 The Valar are lesser gods than the creator but still gods. Some call them angels but they are actually gods akin to the gods of Olympus. The Maia are even lesser gods. You could call them archangels of a sort.
you made my day again sir :) thank you
Regie Florentino I'm glad I could :) thank you for your continued support!
always am
Men of the West is the only channel i subscribe in youtube, honestly. I love listening to it every night before i go to sleep.
J.R.R. Tolkien is one of a kind, like, the rare kind.
Some day we'll listen to him telling his tales in the next life, hopefully.
Discovered your channel recently but I have already watched loads of these lore videos. I love the story telling, attention to detail and the artwork too. So just wanted to say really well done and keep up the good work! 😊
Can you do a video about Entwives
LOL Not if he was a Treebeard!
My theory on the Entwives is that they perished in the drowning of Beleriand.
Not any more. They clearly survived until at least the second age.
please do...even if there is scant information about them other than Treebeard's song
*"THEY'RE TAKING THE HOBBITS TO ISENGARD!!"*
*GARD*
*GAGAGAGARD*
Lol
SARUMAN
Stupid! Fat! Hobbit!
"WHAT'S IN ISENGARD??"
"HOBBITS!!"
I LOVE YOUR ARTWORK...MIXED IN WITH IMAGES FROM THE FILMS... i'M NOT A TOLKIEN SCHOLAR BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME AS IF YOU HAVE THIS MATERIAL DOWN COLD, DUDE! CONGRATS!
Michael McCue Thank you! It isn't my artwork, but rather that from online sources, but thank you all the same! :)
NEVERTHELESS, YOU HAVE TO SEEK IT OUT, SELECT WHICH IMAGES WORK BEST FOR YOUR STORY, AND YOU FIND AWESOME IMAGES, ILLUSTRATIONS AND PAINTINGS THAT BRING YOUR VIDEOS TO LIFE! (Was I yelling?...apologies!)
Happy Anniversary. 3 years off excellent work and knowledge.
Tolkien started this religion and your keeping the candle burning with your content.
Roll on 2018
As a new subscriber i must say you have a level of knowledge i've rarely seen in Tolkien fans... BRAVO!
I love how in The Hobbit we got to learn a little about the other Wizards. I still want to see the Blue Wizards
Maybe they'll show the Blue Wizards in the show that Amazon is making. It would be fascinating if they showed some of the unseen but well-known characters, such as Glorfindel and the Blue Wizards.
What show?
@@C-Murdaa777 Amazon is making an LOTR tv show
@@___sau1___321 No. Impossible. The wizards didn't exist in Middle Earth at the time the series is set in. They arrived far later.
U need more subs, that's why I subbed
Saruman got all "5th column" on Gandalf, spying and eavesdropping, sending sleuths when his own stalking and impersonating became obvious. Sensing himself less than his rival, and bitter, he naturally revealed that evil is a compulsion toward no Good.
It felt great to watch this. I love these stories. Thank you for this.
Well done on your production. This is a discerning audience and you Craft a worthy product.
And thank you!!!! You do the work, I just listened in ease.
I think 💭 the two Blue Wizards 🧙♂️ are known by many names throughout these parts
Great vids. Still think you should do a fan fiction of what happened when Gandalf, Frodo, Galadriel etc touched down in the undying lands. Or when the Istari reached Middle Earth - give us some Blue Wizard dialogue.
Narya has the ability to give its bearer invincibility past insubstantialness, and thus the strength to fight Sauron.
How could that be if Vilya was the most powerful ring of the 3?
Been looking for videos like this for a long time. Amazing!
Congratulations on 1000 subs!
The Berserk Spoogz Thank you! It means a lot that you all care so deeply for Tolkien's works!