Of course it was. He was a master of hiding but in fact he was even better to mask his side spin, if you look you always get fooled. So incredible fast, hit one direction and change immediately to the other. Absolutely incredible.
I don't understand,why so many comments have no idea about the rule changed During the time Waldner was playing,hiding serve is legal You can't do that rn is because ittf change the rule in 2002
I have never seen Ma long serve that way before, and I don't recall ever seeing it all from anyone, frankly. I'll have to copy it, it looks murderous, at least if you use it only once in a match.
It's unique, yes. However, it's not hard to return. In the end, it's a topspin serve. So unless your opponent is completely confused it's easy to return.
Kenta had/has the only true Tomahawk serve, and used it less and less.. Ding is retired and hardly used it after her teens. A true T-serve is bh/fh side bivalent, by design: the opponent is momentarily caught in a split-second decision process: before reading the spin, you have to figure out the side. There is no such thing as a 'reverse' tomahawk serve. forehand/backhand variation inhere in the thing. Thus, a T-serve is a _type_ of serve, not an instance. Ovtcharov does not have a tomahawk serve, btw. I would call it a sword-serve, or tennis twist/slice serve. That said, he once emulated Ding Ning's bh-side strike in a demo/exhibition event; I don't recall him execute a Tomahawk serve in a real match. Maybe he should, once per match. Even a lousy T-serve from Dima would blow an opponent's mind.
Hmm.. I was lucky enough to play against Carl Prean when he was coming through - not only did he play with black Lentec long pimples on the back hand and black reverse on the forehand, which ordinarily made service return difficult, he would also stand with his back to you and rotate his body back towards you whilst serving. There was another guy around at that time called Billy Gleave who serve wise was even more difficult, he played with black reverse and anti loop - you never had a clue what was on the serve, always fast and at your elbow if you got it back he just clubbed the return and he would twiddle and could hit the ball with either rubber. Not fun if you on the receiving end. Don’t forget the reverse rubbers were all glued to hell with Vulcofux and like and we were playing with the small tt balls which hooped about much more than the plastic blobs today. The rules had to change, but I loved it.
Can a player blocks the visibility of the ball at the time of serving? When the ball is served below the arm pit the player does not see the ball clearly. Therefore what is the validity of the principle that the ball must be held on the palm? Contradiction?
^^ damn there were some amazing aces...but i am sure, even if we would practice some serves over a few years the result wont even be able to get next to the original to compare it... XD 😉🥳
Tbh although all the serves look amazing, only Ma Long's and Ma Lin's are legal. Ove Waldner's contact point is obviously hidden. I love Ding Ning's rev tomahawk serves alot. But there is a reason why she switched to normal pendulum serve. Cuz she received alot of controversy whether she tossed the ball high enough, not to mention in some cases she almost dropped the ball instead of tossing. Same with Asuka's, the ball is not tossed high enough
Oh and btw Ma Longs serves definitely arent 100% legal either. If you look closely you can See that He gives the ball spin when throwing it up. Plus he also hits the ball very close to his body which very likely hides the contact point as well. A lot of top players so this actually
When i was younger, and more into it, i was using the reverse tomahawk but without english, just straight hard backspin, never knew it was called anything 😂 Edit- after finishing the vid, makes me wish I would've developed the hyperbolic more, that squat for the r.t. sucked 😁
Hard to call the first one creative. It is a good serve but it is just absuing the old rules it is not that the new players are less creative they just legally can't do that serve.
Whn I 1st saw dat serve dat They calld " Ghost Serve ", I calld it a Ghost Serve. Now I'm seeing it n dat They hv also calld it " The Ghost Serve ". Very, Very Creative. If U Chill n Gently return it, thn U mght hv a Chance n d Forth cmng Rally. U gt 2 Return it Gentle.
am i missing something? I thought you had to serve to the diagonal side...if your standing on the edge and putting it right down the side you're on..that's not skill it's just hitting it where the opponent isn't standing LOL
In tennis, your have to serve in a square diagonally, and in table tennis doubles, you also have to serve to the diagonal side. In table tennis singles, its completely allowed to serve anywhere on the table
@@top5tabletennis REALLY? i feel like that is totally unfair cuz if you hit corners there's literally no way to defend an average well placed serve. and i'm no pro or never played competitive but NEVER in my life did i ever play singles Table Tennis where you can serve anywhere it's always been Diagonal like in normal Tennis.
@@poofykins that's an extremely common misconception and garage rule. Other garage rules you may know - can't lose on a serve at game point, maximum of 2 let serves, losing player always gets the serve if winning player is on game point, 7-0 is a skunk, serving the ball from your hand is allowed, playing to 21 points... are all false as well in addition to requiring the serve toward the diagonal corner.
@@chimyshark wow haha and basically everyone is playing by those rules above thinking they are being "official" i'm going to actually look up the REAL rules. Thanks for the info it's quite interesting
Man the kicker serve was cheap. His opponents have no choice to stand to the other side of the table just to see the contact, and on top of that he uses his arm to conceal the serve. I realize now other players dodnt use it because it's so unsportsmanlike.
All these serves were legal at the time of the match. For Waldner, the rules have changed since. Sakai's serve is insane, but it's very legal, correct height, no hiding, no angled toss.
0:00 Kicker Serve
1:04 Reverse Backhand Serve
1:27 Reverse Tomahawk Serve
2:31 Ghost Serve
3:03 Hyperbolic Serve
Thanks, super!! Can you do the best creative penhold serve. 😊
Seeing Jan Ove Waldner’s serve, it’s hard to believe that the rule that you cannot hide the ball on the serve was implemented because of anyone else
Of course it was. He was a master of hiding but in fact he was even better to mask his side spin, if you look you always get fooled. So incredible fast, hit one direction and change immediately to the other. Absolutely incredible.
Maybe also Par Gerell
@@top5tabletennis Yes, you are right. Per learned from J-O though.
@@top5tabletenniswell and he basically still hides his serve too
@@andreaseriksson8803it was definitely changed because of waldner!
ALL of those serves are absolutely sick!
i’m glad you enjoyed the video!
I don't understand,why so many comments have no idea about the rule changed
During the time Waldner was playing,hiding serve is legal
You can't do that rn is because ittf change the rule in 2002
The last one is incredible
I love doing the kicker serve.
Me too
Illegal tho
@@Catlover10808no need to hide the ball in order to surprise an opponent with it, if that's what u are talking about
This is not the kicker. It is the Ace serve. Kicker is different
The look Zhang Jike gave after that point : )
😂😂😂👍🏽👍🏽
I have never seen Ma long serve that way before, and I don't recall ever seeing it all from anyone, frankly. I'll have to copy it, it looks murderous, at least if you use it only once in a match.
I was only able to find one instance of this creative serve. I'm also trying to learn it over the summer!
It's unique, yes. However, it's not hard to return. In the end, it's a topspin serve. So unless your opponent is completely confused it's easy to return.
That wasn't Ma Long. That was Ma Lin.
@@wallygrim3406I think hes speaking about the 2nd and thats Ma Long.
luckily Craig Bryant just posted a video about that serve! and a few others.
Kenta Matsudaira also has creative Tomahawk serves
Kenta had/has the only true Tomahawk serve, and used it less and less.. Ding is retired and hardly used it after her teens.
A true T-serve is bh/fh side bivalent, by design: the opponent is momentarily caught in a split-second decision process: before reading the spin, you have to figure out the side. There is no such thing as a 'reverse' tomahawk serve. forehand/backhand variation inhere in the thing. Thus, a T-serve is a _type_ of serve, not an instance.
Ovtcharov does not have a tomahawk serve, btw. I would call it a sword-serve, or tennis twist/slice serve. That said, he once emulated Ding Ning's bh-side strike in a demo/exhibition event; I don't recall him execute a Tomahawk serve in a real match. Maybe he should, once per match. Even a lousy T-serve from Dima would blow an opponent's mind.
Tennis used to be my favouritr hoppy! However, watching these guys shows me how difficult the professional level is!!!
Please do more videos like these 😊
Hmm..
I was lucky enough to play against Carl Prean when he was coming through - not only did he play with black Lentec long pimples on the back hand and black reverse on the forehand, which ordinarily made service return difficult, he would also stand with his back to you and rotate his body back towards you whilst serving.
There was another guy around at that time called Billy Gleave who serve wise was even more difficult, he played with black reverse and anti loop - you never had a clue what was on the serve, always fast and at your elbow if you got it back he just clubbed the return and he would twiddle and could hit the ball with either rubber.
Not fun if you on the receiving end.
Don’t forget the reverse rubbers were all glued to hell with Vulcofux and like and we were playing with the small tt balls which hooped about much more than the plastic blobs today.
The rules had to change, but I loved it.
2:10 Miu Hirano is from another world.🙂🏅
Yo what was the song name for Ding Ning’s reverse tomahawk at the end?
0:57 The most Swedish looking group of people ever.
Can a player blocks the visibility of the ball at the time of serving? When the ball is served below the arm pit the player does not see the ball clearly. Therefore what is the validity of the principle that the ball must be held on the palm? Contradiction?
not anymore they can't. Waldner used to cover it with his arm but now ITTF has a rule against that
At that time it was still allowed and everybody did it.
You must be 15 years old right?
Some of these serves uses too small ball illegal ball
yea but its cool
the Hyperbolic is illigal right?
Pretty sure it's legal as long as you toss the ball high enough and follow all other server rules
Waldner fooling Vladamir twice😂😂😂😂
酒井選手大好きだからうれしい！
^^ damn there were some amazing aces...but i am sure, even if we would practice some serves over a few years the result wont even be able to get next to the original to compare it... XD 😉🥳
Two best types of serves:
Killer serve
Third ball attack serve
ding ning summoning spirits with that action
Even Persson at middle age keeps falling for it, and they must've played hundreds of times against each other. 🤣
isnt that serve illegal because his arm blocks sight of the ball?
yeah
During that time it was legal,but in the rule rn is illegal
Tbh although all the serves look amazing, only Ma Long's and Ma Lin's are legal.
Ove Waldner's contact point is obviously hidden.
I love Ding Ning's rev tomahawk serves alot. But there is a reason why she switched to normal pendulum serve. Cuz she received alot of controversy whether she tossed the ball high enough, not to mention in some cases she almost dropped the ball instead of tossing.
Same with Asuka's, the ball is not tossed high enough
Ding nings toss is definitely high enough. Seems very clean to me
Waldner's serves were all legal back in the day of these videos. They changed the rules for service.
Throwing ball higher on the last type of serve is still possible, if a little harder to get the right speed to the ball falling from higher
Oh and btw Ma Longs serves definitely arent 100% legal either. If you look closely you can See that He gives the ball spin when throwing it up. Plus he also hits the ball very close to his body which very likely hides the contact point as well. A lot of top players so this actually
See, this is when it should be served similar to tennis, opposite corner to serve to no down the lines...
When i was younger, and more into it, i was using the reverse tomahawk but without english, just straight hard backspin, never knew it was called anything 😂
Edit- after finishing the vid, makes me wish I would've developed the hyperbolic more, that squat for the r.t. sucked 😁
^^ even with 0.25 speed you can't see if the serve from Ma Long is with the backhand or cutted with a spin from the forehand 🤔🧐
Hard to call the first one creative. It is a good serve but it is just absuing the old rules it is not that the new players are less creative they just legally can't do that serve.
you are right but i included waldners serve because its a creative and visually appealing serve like the others
If it was indeed that easy to do, everyone would have done it back then.
@@12Trappor So what is the creative part about it? the serve is just abusing that they cant see the hitpoint.
I watched a lot old videos, I can say Waldner had a powerful server.
@@XIplupIXit was creative for its time. Pasts creations are todays classics
I'm able to do a very fast hyperbolic serve, but any good opponent always returns it twice the speed.
I guess the hyperbolic serve is better used infrequently to make it more surprising
The secret to returning is predicting where it will go and returning it after half a bounce in a unpredictable direction.
Banning underarm serve might be the best rule change ever, people came up with all sort of creative techniques to hide the spin.
is the kicker serve still legal nowaways?
not anymore
I'm pretty sure the kicker serve is legal as long as you don't hide the point of contact and follow all the other service rules
The last one is so fast
Awww ping pong. Used to play it when I was a child
It’s called Table tennis, ping pong is different
LOL. Right beside my Legos....
@@madmonk0?
Whn I 1st saw dat serve dat They calld " Ghost Serve ", I calld it a Ghost Serve. Now I'm seeing it n dat They hv also calld it " The Ghost Serve ". Very, Very Creative. If U Chill n Gently return it, thn U mght hv a Chance n d Forth cmng Rally. U gt 2 Return it Gentle.
First one is not the kicker. It is Jan Ove Walder's "Fast Down the Line" or "Ace" serve. Please do not spread misinformation
腕でかくれてるから違反じゃねーの？
half of them illegal now for a reason
👍👍👍💥🎉🎉🎉
The first serve is illegal. You must be able to see the ball at all times. His arm blocked sight of the ball
Back then were different rules
😮
am i missing something? I thought you had to serve to the diagonal side...if your standing on the edge and putting it right down the side you're on..that's not skill it's just hitting it where the opponent isn't standing LOL
In tennis, your have to serve in a square diagonally, and in table tennis doubles, you also have to serve to the diagonal side.
In table tennis singles, its completely allowed to serve anywhere on the table
@@top5tabletennis REALLY? i feel like that is totally unfair cuz if you hit corners there's literally no way to defend an average well placed serve.
and i'm no pro or never played competitive but NEVER in my life did i ever play singles Table Tennis where you can serve anywhere it's always been Diagonal like in normal Tennis.
table tennis players get to serve anywhere :)
@@poofykins that's an extremely common misconception and garage rule. Other garage rules you may know - can't lose on a serve at game point, maximum of 2 let serves, losing player always gets the serve if winning player is on game point, 7-0 is a skunk, serving the ball from your hand is allowed, playing to 21 points... are all false as well in addition to requiring the serve toward the diagonal corner.
@@chimyshark wow haha and basically everyone is playing by those rules above thinking they are being "official" i'm going to actually look up the REAL rules. Thanks for the info it's quite interesting
💪👍🏓😁✌️
😍😍😘😘🥰🥰
912th sub!
shoulda been 911 D:
Man the kicker serve was cheap. His opponents have no choice to stand to the other side of the table just to see the contact, and on top of that he uses his arm to conceal the serve.
I realize now other players dodnt use it because it's so unsportsmanlike.
Just illegal serve
If you speak about the one from Waldner, it was not illegal to hide the ball back in the days.
It was legal back then.
That's not a good serve..it mast stay corner to corner as serve
looks good to me!
Illegal serves
All these serves were legal at the time of the match. For Waldner, the rules have changed since. Sakai's serve is insane, but it's very legal, correct height, no hiding, no angled toss.
😂
How can I know that you are young and uneducated? Because you don't know the history of the things you talk about.
Stop pissing in counter wind.