That’s exactly how I see it. However when I threatened to leave, he’d crack up and appear broken. He’d bend over backwards to correct his behaviour, within a week he was back to, the same old same old. It’s a no win situation, they can’t change.
Totally! My mother is appalled that I have 8 cats (all former strays) and always put their needs before mine. Last month it was my birthday, and she wanted to give me some money, as a present; but when I happily said, "Great! I'll buy something for my fur babies!", she immediately went like, "Nope. I'm not giving you any money, unless you spend it all on yourself!" Mommy dearest, I wonder who and when first convinced me that my needs, dreams, and aspirations did not matter? I think I know the answer, do you?
I resonate with this so much regarding my son. He is my only child, I wanted more but had a number of miscarriages. He ignores my texts, calls, I don't see him for months. I have a neuro condition, which has deteriorated so I can no longer drive 25 miles to see him and 25 miles back. His father (my ex husband) suddenly died of heart attacks in September. My stepdaughter who I have always had a good relationship with called me to say their dad had died suddenly. The long and short of it is he didnt attend the funeral, I did , and he knew this. I wanted to be there for Lucy as she had cleared the bungalow all herself and organise the funeral. Also his sister and nephews attended and always had good relationships with. Yes, he was grieving, and they had been estranged for 16 years. On Christmas day at my son's house, he was off, none of the usual cuddle. Thr atmosphere you could cut with a knife. He baited me, belittled me, said I was too loud. He said he didn't know I went to the funeral and had to find out from his half sister, which is untrue. The dismissive tone and snarky remarks. I spent 2 hours talking to him, my husband tried to talk him. I know he is hurting, but his dad was never a father who spent quality time with him, preferring to drink, and left him at 10 to live in Spain for 6 years. He came back and then they fell out about my son age 18. They never spoke again. I realise this is part of the problem, but after 2 hours of talking to him, cudddlìng him, I had it and said this is going nowhere, he didn't want to resolve this. He chucked my boots against the wall, open the door and told me he is a grown up, and this is his house, and for me to get out. He went upstairs and his husband said he should go and see if he is okay. I had a coffee and left. I am heartbroken. I know I wont hear from him. 29:58
Emotion for a narcissist equates to fuel. They want to hear you getting irritated. They want to get you annoyed. They want your voice to rise and see the tears of frustration welling your eyes. When they see this, it makes them feel so powerful.
It’s their supply. It’s so gross. Most people garden or cook or have hobbies but not these type people…they seek conflict and it isn’t available, they create it.
THAT IS..Preeeetty MUCH it right there, isn't it? You got it! Couldn't have said it any better myself. I hate to HAVE to admit that too. I SERIOUSLY feel for ANYONE that has to live through anything even remotely related to this. I knew there were 'arrogant' people in the world but..damn! Them? I can handle their b*llshit! As a matter of fact, I kinda welcome 'em now. At least I can SANELY argue with them. 😉 Ya know what I'm talking about, my friend? Of COURSE,you do!... I'm also sorry to have to say. 😁
They cannot handle it when you don't react when they're raging dysregulated and abusive and you maintain your calm without reacting. Maintaining your power. The avoidant style is whimsical neglectful and emotionally dismissive. They don't respond well to rejection or leaving. Will blameshift with no accountability. They facilitate people leaving. A self fulfilling prophecy. And they're vindictive.. Approach - avoidance dynamic. Repetition compulsion.
Wow, this hit home. I was stuck in a marriage with a neglectful/covert narcissist for nearly 20 years and cannot describe how lonely I was. I would try to explain my loneliness to him and he was completely dismissive. I felt like I was alone -- unless he wanted sex, then he'd pay attention to me for a split second. It got to the point where I was so exhausted from doing literally EVERYTHING for our household that I just couldn't meet that need anymore and he began to get angry with me. He argued that I was "always tired" and always had an excuse, and that I wouldn't have the opportunities I have without him. The final straw was when I attempted to have one last conversation with him and explain to him that it's not fair that I am doing everything for our family and I need his help. He replied with a stone cold straight, matter of fact reply... "Well, sometimes life just isn't fair." And that was it. Now here I am in the middle of the fight of my life, leaving him behind. I'm still exhausted mentally, emotionally and physically, but at least I'll have something to show for it - my freedom and happiness (and hopefully my kids too!).
Uncanny when reading your comment how it mirrors my world with my narc husband of 20 years. I’m still in it and not sure how to leave. The loneliness is unbearable 😢 I feel alienated by my friends because he is so rude towards them that they no longer come around (at least my male friends but he has problem with any of my female friends). He’s so insecure that even going shopping without him he’s calling me and even when I am working. However when we’re together, he’s always on his phone. I can’t wait until my daughter comes home from college so at least I will have some companionship. Many conversations with him about this issue leads to no changes!
@@tonyamorgan6384 yes, this is exactly how my marriage is/was. I am glad your daughter is in college and not at home anymore. I am going to guess you are not working? If not, say you want some purpose in your life now that the kids are gone and just get a part time job. Something you enjoy. And put that money in a separate account where he can't access it. Gather up any important paperwork you can find and make copies. Plan everything. Find an attorney who understands narcissism well and who is willing to fight for you. Then leave. You have been strong enough to stay all these years and you deserve to be happy. If it helps, write out the pros and cons of your marriage. Get a good counselor who can help you though this. It will be worth it for you to live the rest of your life happy either doing what you want to do and being who you are, or finding someone who truly loves and cherishes you.
This was my story too! It's like he could t care less I was a live in maid and ghost! And when I left, he was flabbergasted! He couldn't understand why!!! Wtf?? The peace and joy is insurmountable. I can't wait until you and your kids are free of that loser who didn't know a good thing when he had it! You will blossom in the sunshine of freedom!
@@starlingswallow right?! My soon to be ex didn't understand why I filed for divorce either. Thank you so much for the encouragement! I cannot wait to be free and finally experience real happiness!
37 years! I have a responsive neglectful demeanor towards my wife. Wasted years and thousands of dollars on counseling. Finalizing plans for gray divorce.
I am almost in tears to read this. Please recover yourself. It is possible don’t give your Narcissist your ultimate power. Come back .. your are a beautiful soul you deserve to be loved and love But the real love, not the pathological one
I have known for 30 years that my father was a narcissist, but this video finally puts the missing pieces in place. My father treated me with indifference, contempt, disdain, dismissal, disinterest… but it was the indifference and disinterest that hurt the most. I'd ask him to give my friend and me a ride to the pool and he'd say "I'm too busy" and then sit on the couch and read a magazine. If I wanted to join an activity at school he'd say no because he didn't want to lift a finger to facilitate. I grew up watching other kids get to do things and see their parents spend time with them and give them hugs and it was so confusing. Every. Single. One. of my school events he'd say "Tell them I'm too busy" or "Tell them I can't make it". He refused to go to my HS graduation because it would be "boring". I asked him once why he'd stopped taking pictures of me and he said "Well, you just weren't interesting anymore." I learned I was a burden and I didn't matter and I'm still often surprised when I walk into a room and people 1) notice my existence and 2) are actually happy to see me.
The Neglectful Narcissist ignores you 99% of the time, and won't even return a smile, but may ask the nosiest and the most intrusive personal questions with a sense of entitlement the one time they speak to you. To be sure you are dealing with a Narcissist, just ignore them back. Stop greeting them, stop answering their texts, stop taking their calls and stop being available. Watch how hurt and passive aggressive they get. It's like "I owe you nothing, but you owe me everything you have".
Living with this neglect is crazy- making for me. It’s not something you can explain to anyone else. The public face of the neglect is never seen. It is definitely something you experience alone.
right. but what hurts even more is the pretending to be so attentive and loving to you in front of others, but as soon as its the two of you, back to nothingness.
I completely understand. If I try to share with my friends how it feels or what happens, and they always think I misinterpreted. Hurts. Lonely and confusing.
@@amandaa2119 I have not seen videos by her specifically on indifferent (neglectful) narcissists, and I have listened to hours and hours of her info. Most info is on raging, controlling narcissists, not ones that want nothing to do with you. Could you direct me to the videos you mean?
Cyclestopper: you are so right. This type of narcissist is so subtle. They do not rage. They avoid. They neglect by their indifference. When you are little, they provide basics of food, etc. They go through the motions. But no affection, no listening to you, no time spent with you. If you are female, no help becoming a woman. The list of things they don't do goes on and on. It isn't the kind of thing you can pinpoint when it is happening. How can kids know what a loving mom is like? Giving you the bare minimum fools you into thinking you matter. In fact, they are anxious for you to go away. They also can be very jealous of you as an adult. I can not overemphasize the damage done by such a mother. You grow up taking care of yourself without knowing how to take care of yourself. You develop very unhealthy ways of coping and you don't understand what is wrong with you. I realized very late in life I had been alone all my life, desperately trying not to be. In later adulthood, I also found myself feeling so guilty about what I had or hadn't done to bring such indifference on me. That is the hardest part because it makes breaking your trauma bond to your mom next to impossible. You live in limbo waiting to know what is next.
@@nancybartley4610 I could have easily written this word for word. Thank you for articulating and sharing your experience so eloquently. Being alone for so long breaks my heart daily.
@@kburton1244 Those of us who experienced an indifferent mom, to put it mildly, have been doubly alone. 1.) In childhood we were motherless children. 2.) We have lived our adult lives alone because we went without knowledge of this specific form of narcissism and support for dealing with the confusion and guilt it creates. When I was little, I wish she had just slapped me silly and said she wished I had never been born. I would have learned something was very wrong much sooner and perhaps been able to rectify some degree of such damage. Instead, I have lived blaming myself and feeling guilty that I was a bad daughter. Who knows, maybe I was a bad daughter. Like Dr. R says, being raised by such moms creates neglectful narcissists. So I was trained by the best and probably neglected my mom in return. That is the crux of the dilemma I lived with until hearing today's video. I hated myself for failing my mother. Fortunately, I did not have children. I could not live knowing I had hurt my child as my mom hurt me. I am sorry for all of us to whom this happened. It would be so valuable if we could form a support network. I would like to hear from others who found today's video valuable in that it finally explained our experiences. Thank you for reaching out. All the best to you.
The most hurtful thing that I recall by being in this type of relationship was the fact that my friends never believed me. They only saw the “social” being who would only come out in public. Nobody understood me until one day, my dad saw it right before his eyes. He told me “if this son of a $&#% doesn’t love you, divorce him!” Too bad I waited 9 years to do so. Now I’m happily married to a wonderful human being and we love each others company!
I am so happy to hear that for you! You definitely deserved it. I'm married to one...and I completely shut my affectionate nature off , because he acted like it irritated him.😢
You know, my dad tried to warn me of mine when he first met him (he told me he knows tgis man's M.O....never forget that...and at that time I was like "huh?! Wut do u mean?!")...my dad was so out of character about it that I brushed it off, thinking I'd allow him time to get to know him. In a multitude of councel, there is safety...always love yourself and the people the Lord places in your life that love encourage and support you- sharing truth in love- that's our safety. They will lovingly warn you of the wolf in sheep's clothing.
I was treated like this as child..... from my mom.. no one taught me hygiene, hours playing alone,no conversations.... only time i was spoken to was to be her therapist and listen to her problems thats it.
Sorry this happened to you and I totally understand... this was my exact childhood too ! I also have an older sister, five years older who is also the same way... I have no one memory of her talking or playing with me, I was invisible to her and my Mother !
Oh my god, It was the same for me. I took refuge in books. Today that I am an adult, she suddenly wants to be friends with me ( while continuing to be awful with my little sisters). It was so confusing because she reappeared in my life when I thought I was done healing ( little did I know that It would take years). I am not comfortable with her at all and I am not even sure of what she wants from me suddenly. Maybe because I am her only unmarried adult daughter and she see the possibility to have some "glory" in a possible marriage? It is so awful as a muslim, because of the stress on respecting and honoring our parents. Sometimes I doubts myself, I says to myselfs that it was not so bad after all, that she is a pious woman who pray every days and she often mention praying for us and for the family, so I don't know how I stand on that. I pray god to turns her heart and to accepts her in his mercy nevertheless.
Darn I had it bad but thats messed up I put up with abuse until I got locked up a blessing in hindsight my hate was over the hill so too speak one spark and something was inevitable life is wierd though very much so.
This is my mom! It was so confusing because I didn't have a horrible childhood. She does so much for neighbors, church, the community... volunteers like a maniac. But she will easily go 3-4 months without talking to her adult children. She is super interested in her grandchildren when they are under 5 and she can do all the things she likes with them, but then loses interest as they develop their own clear personalities and interests. Growing up, we did the sports and activities that she wanted us to do, not that we were interested in. She made it to all of my award and scholarship events, but then left me alone to fend for things like senior photos, prom, important college tests, etc. She worked 5 mins away from our school, but was routinely late to pick us up from practice, meaning we and our coaches had to wait outside in the winter weather until she showed up, after all the other kids were already picked up. One time she forgot my brother entirely and he had to run home 3 miles in the freezing snow after dark. Several times I had to be hospitalized and the staff seemed genuinely surprised that my situation had gotten so bad before my parents brought me in. And then I went on and married a neglectful narcissist and felt the loneliest I ever had. On our honeymoon when there were finally no distractions or excuses, and he wanted no engagement, no physical or emotional connection, I knew I'd made a horrible mistake.
Oh you are not alone, i am dumbfounded by how accurately youve described my mother, even down to the disinterest in children 5yo+ that have developed personalities. You didnt deserve that kind of parent or partner, i hope youve found an emotionally intelligent and present person to have a relationship with instead
My ex did this. He thrived on being "super man"; dropping the ball, ignoring what I needed, and waiting until I was in complete meltdown mode then swooping in to save the day. He'd be the perfect image of a spouse and partner for a few days or a week, then slowly begin to let things slide again. Rinse and repeat, and repeat, and repeat. I literally began to lose my mind over it.
I'm sorry to hear this. I'm hoping you're in a better place now! You're worth to be seen and heard and to be loved. You can start by showing love and care to yourself with doing things/resources you love to do. If you want to, you can seek therapeutic help. Wish you all the best 🍀
I know exactly what you are talkig about. Me too.I would fall apart and everyone says how sweet he was to stay with me and help his crazy wife. And he was the one driving me nuts with ignoring me and the kids and us not having enough food or clothes or even medicine for sick kids or the power turned off etc. Then he told the kids it was my fault. That I was spending all his money. I never had any money. He had it all. To this day the kids still think it was my fault. He played the martyr very well and still does. Good riddance!
I’ve lived with a neglectful covert narcissist for 31 years, and they NEVER miss an opportunity to throw you under the bus. Life with someone like that sucks, and the best thing you can do is leave them far behind. I can’t wait to get out of this.
That’s the video I needed today. I had been searching for one year in order to understand that phenomenon - when u have a partner, but he simply doesn’t take care of u, ignores u in so many ways. Neither does he take any responsibility for whatever in the relationship. And the best sentence is “I don’t know why u’re searching for trouble - I haven’t done a single thing.” 😢 Exactly. Not a single thing that happy couples do. It can be very cruel to be the only person who makes the relationship work. There’s no empathy for the love-starved partner. Wow. Thanks from the bottom of my heart to Dr. Ramani!
I sat down trying to talk to him about feeling lonely in our relationship, he somehow started talking about his credit score improving… this is crazy. I feel so sad for him. The inability to “feel” what the other person is going through is beyond mind blowing. The best thing to do is to talk about nothing with them. Never give in, but never give up on yourself. Silently move forward. A brick wall has more emotions than a self centered narcissist. They will always put work first. That’s where the juice comes from. Most of them end up alone and in regret later on. I have seen this so often.
OMg! Yes! I've had similar conversations. They have zero empathy. Keep your cards close and don't share any personal feelings because they will turn them around on you and suddenly you're to blame - for everything!
You’ve described my husband of 40 yrs. Such a lovely man to everyone else…our house has been like a hotel for him. It took me 30+ years to figure out what was happening. I do get the head shakes, the eyebrow quirk, the smirks & he feels far superior to me. Our daughter has questioned whether he has ever loved her too. I know he doesn’t love me.
Stone walling was huge part of my long marriage with a neglectful narcissist. It’s terrible how he does this neglectful behavior with our sons. There’s is deep sadness with those who try to love these people.
It's like living with a ghost. Yes, that sums it up quite well. The only one that matters in a relationship with a narcissist is the narcissist. It's all about them getting what they want, period. When you finally figure it out, you just want to get away from them. Thanks, Dr. Ramani, for helping me to see what I couldn't see before. It's not me, it's their inability to connect with anyone.
I rather enjoy the company of a ghost than these psychos, because living next to one narc imply drama, gaslighting, lies, not to mention the suck of energy they take from us, and the trauma after leaving a narc relationship.
DE-HUMANIZING ..to a point that it feels I might as well be dead- sounds much better than living with this emptiness- having sucked all the life, will, light out of a person. It's hard to articulate how this actually feels on a daily basis. Much love to fellow survivors.
My ex narc actually told me he "could give me a day or maybe 2 days a week". He is a retired person with no financial issues, but with many emotional issues. When I confronted this statement later, he said, "That does't sound like me!" I thought, this is exactly who you are. There was always a text, a trip or a "buddy" (oftentimes, someone the narc barely even knew) who "needed" him, but when I had cancer surgery, he told me he didn't think I needed emotional support because I was a strong, independent woman. Bye, bye loser ;)
My ex used to say that a lot, as an accusation! You’re so strong, you don’t need me. Like it was his get out of being present for anyone in the household card. Thing is, I think he knows he’s a neglectful narc. Whenever he’s caught dropping the ball and others may judge him the way he judges them, he says, “I’m not THAT neglectful.” Yes. Yes he is. And the kids and I can’t wait for him to ghost us for good.
They always say we don’t need anything because we’re strong. They’re so pathetic and insecure they literally never help someone strong. They only help those they deem as “weak” to have control over them.
Thank you for covering this type of narcissist. My ex-husband is a neglectful narcissistic. People often excuse his behavior by saying it's just a "man thing" Throughout our relationship, I felt like I was his mom, just managing his life for him. He was not a partner in any way. Very dismissive. He would walk around the living room and turn off the TV and all the lights while I was in there. When I'd ask him to stop he claimed that he didn't know I was there even though we were sitting together for a while. He would get obsessive about hobbies. First it was music, then board games, and the final straw was when he became obsessed with religion. That's when he became scary.
Wow my neglectful narc husband does the same thing. Always has new obsessions that fade quickly. He does the same thing with the lights and TVs, even would be startled by me being in the bed..like every night. It began to make me feel hurt or just unwelcome. He couldn’t understand. I couldn’t really either. Such a sick twisted relationship. I feel completely depleted while he’s so blissfully unaware. After arguments I would be torn apart to shreds and unable to even function or sleep, he would immediately go on as if nothing happened and could fall asleep instantly. This was like torture for me. I could never understand it for years, but now so much makes sense. Thank you for this, I feel seen for once and the information and validation is so liberating. I’ll never again invest so much of my soul into another person who can’t reciprocate a single morsel of affection or emotion.
@tanyaanderson144 and what's hard is that "just being ignored" doesn't sound like a huge deal, but it is! I divorced my husband for many reasons, but one big one was that I didn't want my daughters to marry someone like him, so I didn't want to model it. We all deserve a someone who will engage with us regularly and be an active partner in the relationship.
I am in same situation- he is obsessed with doomsday/religion right now! And, he turns the lights off on me all the time. I was literally his mom for the last 20 years. Zero intimacy. Just excuses. He says, "God will take care of it." "Everyone makes mistakes." Then spews a bible verse or refers to pharoah or some other bs. Never listens to me. I am divorcing in June when I can finally start paying for it.
I get it. They parentize you - a covert narc will pull the victim card and you will be doing everything all the time. After years, you realize you became the parent and took on ALL the responsibilities - financial, emotional, etc. It's not a partnership in any way, shape or form.
This was my mother. When I was seriously needing to talk with her she had this little ditty she would sing - over and over again. "Yes! My Darling Daughter! Hang your clothes on a hickory limb but don't go near the water!" She thought it was funny. But it served its purpose of putting me off entirely, leaving me frustrated, hurt, and often tearful. Consequently, I stopped trying to engage with her at all. She didn't like me, didn't want me touching her, dismissively told me I was 'silly' when I asked her if she loved me, and generally made my growing up a well of pain. It took me many, many, many years to understand it wasn't me who was the problem. AND THEN, I married her in the form of my first husband who was and is the poster child for the neglectful narcissist. It's too bad because I like his current wife (who he cheats on) but her damage keeps her tied to him while he performs in the same way he did with me. Happy Ending, I am now in a healthy, loving relationship and life is good.
When I would go to my mother upset she would laugh and sing "nobody likes me, everyone hates me, I think I'll go eat worms". Then laugh. Kids hate being mocked and I learned don't go to her when you are upset. She doesn't want to hear about it.
😵💫a slot machine, what a fabulous analogy for what’s it like to be with someone like this. You can NEVER WIN NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. Even if you try to give them everything they want, they will turn round and tell you you’re not getting it quite right and anyway they want something different now. 25years I lived with a man who paid me zero attention unless he wanted something. He was distracted by his secret double life, NEVER said sorry for anything he did, I got absolutely no affection from him, he wasn’t interested in me, our children, or our home. It was like being a single parent working 3 jobs with no one to turn to for support, while he did as little work, parenting, housework as possible and spent all his time entertaining himself in his room, visiting friends and endless other women as I later found out. He was always a victim, poor little lost boy who’s mother and father neglected him and favoured his brother.
This is my ex husband, he gave his 100% attention to his mother, sisters, brother, his friends and anyone else but neglected our children and me. Thank you for explaining this.
I hear you, and have experienced similarly. I'm emerging from a relationship of 15 years where I was devoted to him and his family, but he isolated me from mine. He's almost never bothered with my family and friends. I was always on his territory. I don't feel he meant to hurt me. I feel he was repeating how his workaholic parents treated him. He took care of himself in every way. I literally didn't matter. I feel devastated, but I'm also feeling better.
Well I laughed out loud when you explained the plant analogy. When I left my marriage of 20 years with a neglectful narcissist I said I was a dried up tomato plant and when that last tiny tomato fell off, I left. I had gotten a masters degree not really because I wanted it, but because I was a good student and I knew at least in that arena I would get something positive for my self esteem. Thanks for defining this neglect. I had put him in the covert category but it didn't quite fit. Dr Ramani, you are such a lovely gift to all of us,
I moved to, and lived in, a cold and unfriendly area, a US state. After about 10 years I said to someone I felt like a plant that was slowly dying. Way too long. Wish I had left quickly.
Yup...my neglectful father.... Took zero interest in my lovely mum and his kids... He lived with us... He was also a communal narc- massively interested in people he met through his hobbies.... It was utterly grim growing up with this... We never had the best of him It was grim
Married to a neglectful man for 30 years. There was never even a love bombing stage at the beginning. I was a needy 16 year old girl who wanted love and a family. I thought I could make him love me by being the best wife a man could ask for. It didn't work. After decades of slowly dieing inside, my oldest daughter recognized my depression despite despite me being really good at seeming happy to the world. She gave me the courage to leave when she called and said "mom, you are not okay. You need to leave." A year out and I'm finally healing. Dr Ramani and Leslie Vernick have been my life lines.
Finally, an explanation of the neglect I went through as a child that makes sens. For a while now, I've struggled to accept that my parents were narcissists because they didn't fit the description. But this has hit the nail on the head! It has also made clear that my older sister took on the same personality trait. They had a way of making me feel invisible and inconsequential. I can remember many incidents of being completely ignored when talking to my Dad, or my Mom choosing to take a call from work while I was pouring my heart out to her over an emotional distress. I eventually just stopped asking to be heard, by anyone. Thank you for clearing this up. It helps me to accept the truth and no longer question and judge my memories.
There is not some inherent “badness” in you that your mom couldn’t love you. I used to think that. My mom actually told me “If anyone ever really knew you, they couldn’t love you.” I always thought it was my fault. You are not unlovable or invisible! ❤
THIS. ALL OF THIS, OMG. I went from feeling so seen and heard, loved and wanted in the beginning... to feeling exactly like I didn't exist, didn't matter, had no importance or priority in his life in any way. He kept telling me he cared about me and that I was important to him, then showing me in every single way that I was none of those things. It was so hurtful and confusing. It completely destroyed me. My self esteem, worth, value. All of it. I kept doing more and more to try to make him happy, keep his attention, get his attention back and none of it worked. Including things I'm less than proud of. I got emotional, cried, begged, guilt tripped. I was being demanding of time he was unwilling to give, and it made me question if I was the entitled, enraged narc(once I learned about narcissism. There has been so much rumination). I was begging to get more than breadcrumbs from him. I was begging to be seen again. But it was more like once his use of me was done, I no longer had any value to him and was put up on a shelf like a toy he was bored with. I was in such a state of denial, because it is literally two people in one body, he could be so sweet, kind, compassionate, etc...as he was in the beginning... then so cold and dismissive. I didn't even know what narcissism was, or gaslighting. Just that I was in a very unhealthy, painful situation with someone I loved and who I thought loved me. Now that I know more about both, I can see just how badly I was manipulated, but I still question so much. Especially myself.
It is a slow and invalidating death. You pretty much summed up my entire marriage to my ex, minus his rage. It literally was hell on earth, and I could feel myself dying. I've been free almost 5 years and it feels amazing! Thank you, Dr. Ramani!🎉
Yes, I also felt this described my husband but he would have bouts of rage… He would often rage (including lots of insults, manipulation, gaslighting) and then run out of the house and be gone for days. I never knew how long or where he was or when he would come back. He did it to punish me and would never ever admit to his abuse. He just thought everything was my fault. At the end, he literally insulted me for a full 20 minutes and then told me the problem was how I didn’t respect him. Like ummmm, hello? You just insulted me for 20 minutes and you think I’m the problem? 🤦♀️ crazy… when things were calm, I never got any attention, unless a minute for sex or a disinterested “how are you?”… In a sick way, it’s easier to deal with this narcissistic style because they mostly leave you alone… until you realize you’re just alone and doing everything yourself, plus putting up with their occasional rages, so what’s the point? Might as well just be alone for realz and not have to deal with their crap.
I'm 61 on disability and cannot afford to go anywhere. So I have put my attention to Jesus as my Savior. I'm no Martyr but after 30 years of being a homemaker and that not being recognized as valuable enough to recieve SS by the Government. It is what it is. I Grey Rock and take care of my emotional and spiritual and physical health as best I can. I may not be happy in this life but I'm promised by Jesus that I will be happy in the next and that is the Hope of Christ that sustains me. 🙏💝
Thanks for making this video!! I was married to one for 18 years. He'd just come home from the office late (8 or 9pm) plop on the sofa and say nothing. Didn't matter if family was over, he'd barely acknowledge anyone. Blamed me for every little thing that was an inconvience or disturbed his comfort....he would lay some paper on the counter and freak out on me if it wasn't still there 6 months later. Never helped around the house, even just to load the dishwasher. I had to constantly remind him to call his parents. He had no friends. Very critical of everything I did. If I calmly told him that he wasn't saying nice things, he'd say he was "just commenting". Lucky he never talked that much then! I finally just checked out and found new hobbies/friends/church to keep me busy. Eventually he got sick and passed away suddendly. He was very overweight and never went to the doctor. After the funeral, I found tons of evidence he had been cheating on his many business trips. Awful life and grateful to be free of it all
I feel so utterly seen right now. Been searching for this narcissist description for a while, as I knew my ex was one but couldn’t pin down the fact that I was often ignored, felt worthless and there was barely any intimacy. Thank you Dr Ramani for opening my eyes!
Omgosh!!! This is soooo right on! I feel like an unwanted foster child in my own home! He’ll buy himself expensive food-get nothing for me!! List goes on and on. In public, however, he’ll pretend to be so attentive! “Can I get you something to drink honey?”. Ugh. Makes me sick!!!
oh yes the "honey" part always pisses me off.. are they serious? and mine will act like a parrot and repeat whatever the kids say to me at their games to act like he is attentive.. when i can clearly hear them cause they are sitting right next to me.
This describes my ex narcissist perfectly, far more than any video to date. Vulnerable narcissist with an overlay of calculated laziness. Maximum psychological harm with the least effort, with the maximum plausible deniability. Extremely dangerous. Run when you can, and don't look back.
This is the first time my childhood and adulthood relationship with my mother made sense! I have listened to descriptions of other types of narcissism and my mom didn't fit. Now there is no doubt what happened. You described it perfectly. It is scary. I have spent my life feeling and acting exactly as you outlined and thinking something is so wrong with me. There is something wrong with me: I am the child of a neglectful narcissist. Thank you, Dr. R.
This is exactly the type I’m dealing with. The relationship exists when I put myself in front of them and do the work. The moment I walk away there’s nothing. I’ve been in the delusion that I’ve lost the ‘good parts’ of the relationship because I’m not doing all the heavy lifting anymore. Sad, grieving. All my life chasing some connection and only getting a taste of it when I bend into a pretzel to get it. I love them so much but I’m so tired of the lack of effort. So I stopped and it is gone. Unless I make the effort again and I’m not sure I want to do it anymore 😢
Like you wrote if you stop giving into the relationship by not calling anymore for having new , helping others or giving your time to the loved one everythind will die by itself because of the lack of réciprocities and no feed back either.. but saying you are selfish or you dont call them anymore . We are nacissitic supplies , No love involve , they play a game and imitate to show they are a good person in front of other
The sad reality is he will never change and you will end up exhausted mentally and emotionally. Trust me. Like Dr. Ramani said you only matter when they need something. There is no connection, Even if you have kids together there is none. I was married to one and I have to say that I honestly regret the day that I met him. But you don't know what you are getting until it's too late. Don't blame yourself. I like to say that I gave all of the right things to the wrong person. You will always be leading, fixing, taking care of whatever, and giving because he won't. I had to be a mother and father to my kids I had three boy and he was never there for any of em. So if you can cut your loses and don't have any expectations because you will only end up disappointed and very, very tired. Take care of yourself. Sending you lots of blessings!!
I’m so very sorry & I too have been through this😿 The best advice I ever got about this was “Learn to separate how you feel about them & how you feel around them” If we are neglected, they’re literally showing us just how little they value & respect us. We deserve love that fits our values. If we value affection & attention, it’s a losing game to try to crap fit to someone who doesn’t. Take care of you🥰
@@cup_o_TMarie wow. I’ve never heard that advice! That makes so much sense! Thank you for the different perspective. Luckily my lifelong partner is not this person so I do feel fortunate in that. ❤️
It's like watching a psychological thriller, wondering, "who wrote this delusional mind blender?" It's never consistent, you meet the side that likes you, then suddenly this new person you don't know appears with a trap to entangle you into this whirlwind of "guess who/guess what/when" madness... you think breakthrough comes, then up jumps the boogie boo... my God, Lord JESUS help me! I know He will
This was incredibly important for me to hear because though I recognized I survived narcissistic abuse, the perpetrator didn't fit nearly into other categories....until I learned of this category of narcissism. It spoke volumes to me, esp the part about being so lonely with another human. The focus on work and their social life, absolute fomo , meanwhile I felt like a nice trophy to keep on a shelf for ten years.
Same here. He didn't quite fit with covert or the grandiose. Neglectful fits perfectly. Mine doesn't scare me but he annoys me just often enough to get me worked up and angry and upset. I've been working on no contact and no reaction. Getting close to freedom!!!
I was on the shelf for 14 years. I felt like a fine bottle of wine on a high shelf collecting dust!!! 😂 He hardly ever slept with me, and the last 4-6 years we had sex 2 or 3 times total. It almost broke me. My now wonderful husband is enjoying the hell out of me!! 😂😂
True. All of it. Now that I no longer have any expectations of him, I don't feel lonely anymore. It's ridiculous. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not prisoner-warden relationship. I married him for love, not his love of attention. I'm out🏃🏽♀️.
My ex-husband to a tee. It was a miracle I got pregnant...I can count the number of times he touched me in 14 years of marriage. He was saving himself for his after hours conquests. It's a relief to finally know what type he is. "Dying on the vine..." is an incredibly accurate statement.
Boy, this one hits home. My spouse gives attention when there's something in it for him. On the other end of the spectrum, when his good friend calls or messages, it's incredible to watch the hoops that are jumped through. The almost constant criticism of my business and how it interferes with our personal life, while when we do have time together, he will bury himself in his work or another project that doesn't involve me. I definitely deal with the loneliness but not alone situation.
I so relate. I don't think my ex is a complete narcissists but I think he has N traits that strengthened as we dated. I moved across the state by myself where I didn't know a soul in 2019, started my small cleaning business over again by posting flyers around the small town and eventually by word of mouth. Business was very slow from 2020 until the start of 2023 because of Covid & then inflation in 2022, but I managed to get by. My ex hired me to clean his house to get it ready to sell in 2021. That's how we met. At that time he was very kind and grateful. Would make me lunch and eat with me. Asked me questions & seemed gentle. Then a little over a year later he starts to tell me I'm lazy and should look for a second job. Keep in mind I rent my own house and pay my own bills. Never asked him for anything but xmas and bday gifts, and flowers on vday. And don't get me started on how my last two bdays with him went... Both bdays spent in tears and the last being my 30th bday I spent alone. I told him I just have to hang in there and things will get better. That I didn't want a second job and I have to have my schedule open to take on new clients. I was also dealing with stress and depression at this time. I did end up starting a side business making homemade baked goods though. And my cleaning business started doing better too. But just as things started looking up & I started feeling & looking better & hopeful again, he started acted weird. Being passive aggressive, hypocritical, mean spirited, and just uninterested. Not understanding that I get tired and burnt out when I work a lot and that I don't have as much energy & time to go around as before when I wasn't working so much. He was annoyed because I didn't work enough before and now annoyed because I'm working more and don't have as much time for him. I just can't win. And if I got upset and wanted to talk about stuff, he'd hang up on me and tell me that I'm drama. He's affectionate, cuddles, gives hugs and kisses but also says rude and hurtful things and can just be an asshole without even saying he's sorry after. Gives me psychological whiplash. Sorry for writing a book here.. I thought about deleting this but I need to get this all out and maybe needed some validation lol. I swing from missing him to hating him. Angry that he couldn't just love me like I love him and be more patient and understanding. We just broke up on Friday and I haven't talked to anyone about it. Thinking of your situation & I hope you stay strong as well. 💪
@Living in the Pines you nailed it when you said that you just can't win. It took me awhile to figure out that it's not my responsibility to be the ultimate source of his happiness - happiness comes from within. We are still together, and i do really love him but if I wanted to leave, the area we are in is too expensive for me to afford a place on my own and my original home is pretty far away, not to mention I'd have to re-establish my business. Hang in there, Pines, and take care of YOU. You're a good person, like me, and don't let someone take away your spark.
I developed avoidant disorder as a result of both of my parents being like this. I was told to be seen and not heard by my mother, which works out great for predators. I have never truly been seen by either parent, they have no clue who I am and have never shown any interest. This video hit home hard and I feel seen! Thank you Dr. Ramani, if you could make more videos regarding this type of narcissism, I’d really appreciate it.
I've never felt more alone then I do when he's home because even when he's here, he's not here. When I voice my feelings about what I feel is happening, he has NEVER tried reassuring me, leaving me thinking what I'm voicing to him about what I feel is happening, must be true. I've left him once or twice he's never tried stopping me, but after a few days he's wanting me back and he does this by love bombing me and I come back because I think, well maybe he does love me.
My parents wonderful described. They are interested in everyone but you. They wrote us a wedding speech so unpersonal, that no one got the hint that they meant us. But for my mother's boss, where they're invited, they did one they got standing ovations for- and told everyone about it. They once said they're proud of their way of teaching and raising us (their children) to independence. I will always remember my later husband who sat with us at the table murmured under his breath: "Nice way to describe your neglect and abuse." Years before someone else brought me to the realization that they're narcissists later. Thank you, Dr Ramani, for this informational video. And especially for the explanation how to cope!
I understand you well Re: the parents. I’m sorry for how they were. I’m glad though that you had a partner who really had your back & loved you like you deserve. 🙏
Whoa. You just blew my mind. My parents called it the "hands off approach" 🤦🏻♀️ Yeah, they said they wanted to not give us any advice so that the decisions were ours but they gave NO direction, teaching or encouragement either! Then, when I got out of my abusive marriage to the narc ex (mentioned above in this video + rage) they THEN started chiming in with their judgment and suggestions. Where'd the hands off approach go, guys? Huh?? I remarried, against their better judgment (pah!) which was MY decision, and on my birthday weekend they sat us down (my hubby 52yo and me, 42yo) and lectured us about me making more money than my husband (bad- they are traditionalists) and also about our lack of church attendance! I'm mad I didn't pull out our drivers licenses to remind them of our ages! WTF?!?! I went no contact for 4 months and then told them if they want relationship with us, it's going to be adult to adult. No more treating me like I'm an f-ing child. 😂😂😂
Same situation with me. My mother had kids so we could look after eachother and entertain eachother so she and my dad could be high flying professionals. I was left minding two of my siblings when I was five while my parents went out to dinner and dancing on the other side of the highway. I can just remember seeing the car lights flashing by, being too scared to get help, going back and trying to cope with my brother's pooy nappy, not managing the safety pin and wrapping him in a sheet. At fourteen, I was left minding three siblings while my parents were overseas... The sad thing is that when we tried to argue for justice, we were beaten, or sent to bed without food... and we thought it was normal.
This was my mother. She ignored me all through my childhood. She ignored me when I was sick. She would walk past me in the street. She hated that I went to college. She did it to my brother before he died. We haven't spoken now for 20 years. And people think I'm the bad person.
I just wanted to let you know that you are not the bad person here, I also have a Neglectful Narcissistic mother and have not spoken in 13 years and counting. We are the strong ones that have let go, as they have no value in our lives, except misery and who wants that right. So just wanted to say that you are not alone and good for you sista.
This reminds me of the Karyn White song "Superwoman." I'm not your superwoman. I'm not the kind of girl that you can let down and think that everything's ok. Boy, I am only human This girl needs more than occasional hugs as a token of love from you to me.
I’m so grateful the algorithms suggested your channel. Dr. Ramani, thank you for sharing your expertise. After 15 years of personalizing his neglect, I finally understand what’s been going on. I didn’t learn about covert narcissism until last week, and now neglectful narcissism today. I feel so seen and heard, and you don’t even know me. 😍😂 The loneliness is so painful. The way you described their “contempt for closeness” and being treated like a vending machine hit like a ton of bricks. It’s now becoming so clear why he couldn’t even be kind to me when my mom passed, especially given his parents’ narcissism. I’m on the path to recovering my self worth and moving on so that I can heal and perhaps eventually find someone with a more secure attachment style, someone who has the capacity for intimacy. Even if I die alone, I won’t be as lonely with a dismissive and avoidant “partner” who only notices me when he needs something or is mad at me for things he will never reveal. No more personalizing, hoop jumping, slot playing, or cartwheeling for me!
Whew, at last!!! This finally hits the nail on the head. Everything you say is absolutely accurate and true. In my case first my father, then my husband. I felt invisible, no matter what I said or did. When I divorced after decades of marriage, I said I would rather be lonely because I’m alone than lonely in a relationship. As always. thank you! Can’t wait for next episode.
I feel like this kind of narcissism is particularly prevalent in mothers of large families. They find partners who were themselves victims of neglectful parents, so they are already used to that dynamic and fall right in line. There are also certain cultures that support this kind of "litter of puppies" aloof parenting style where the kids aren't well differentiated and where the neglectful parent is absolutely incurious about their lives. As the neglectful mother ages and needs more care, the biggest hoop jumpers get the most attention. The kids who don't jump on demand become dismissed even more. Also, flying monkey siblings will set you up to make it look like you're being a bad, neglectful child yourself, thereby reinforcing the cycle and weaving scapegoating into ongoing parental neglect.
My brother (my only sibling) is a neglectful narc, and I can tell you it took me a lifetime to realise and accept that he couldn't care less if I was dead or alive. ZERO INTEREST! It was a contributing factor to one of my mid-life breakdowns. I did endless "cartwheels through the living room" to try and get him to see me and giving great and thoughtful gifts for years, organised his 40th birthday (etc, etc,) and NOTHING changed! I walked away 4 yrs ago after my father died, and now the relationship is well and truly dead after him allowing it to die a long, slow death. He was supposed to be my big brother who looked out for me - nada! He cared more about his career and was and still is obsessive about it. To make matters worse he holds a huge amount of displaced anger towards me instead of his narcissistic mother ☹️. I also forgot to mention that he only ever "saw" me as his minion/slave to provide a FREE bed for the night and a FREE taxi. To roll-out the red carpet when he decided to "visit" which was a convenience to him only, as we live an hour away from the airport. I have also often thought that he seems completely INERT, lifeless, moves around in slow motion (dead behind the eyes). It's only because of being in therapy (5 yrs and counting) that I was able to walk away from a soul-destroying, soul-sucking relationship.
You're situation sounds very similar to mine. My brother has discarded and ignored me my entire life. I've tried everything to try and get him to care about me, but he never wants to spend time together. He is either on his phone or with friends, leaving me to take care of my aging father alone after my narcissistic mother left. It's sad because he is my only sibling... 😢
This video finally helped me understand my mom and my sibling. Mine is not interested and wanted to hurt me when he could. I am sorry this happened to you. It is very confusing and painful when you want to be connected with someone who rejects you. I don't know how we find people who want to be in a giving, warm and accepting relationship. I suppose we have to give it to ourselves. What else is left to us? Alex, I hope the best for you. Your brother not only hurt you. He hurt himself.
My ex-wife narc told me on multiple occasions "you're not a priority to me" and "you're not real family" (as though you would marry "real family" 🤔). I was treated as if wanting affection & interaction with your partner was a unrealistic expectation. It was one of the major red flags that opened my eyes to what she truly is & helped me leave without any prolonged guilt.
These types of relationships are very lonely. My first husband was like this, and I used to say that I felt like a non-entity. My second husband was a vindictive and rageful narcissist. I will still take the neglectful narcissist any day over the rageful narc. Fortunately, I am narc free for over 4 years. Will not go back to dealing with narcs ever.
I drank a lot on the void of loneliness from this neglect, then I stopped using alcohol to numb the pain and realised there wasn't really a connection there no sharing, reciprocity, intimacy. I was married to him and he was married to his work, family of origin and friends he barely knew. I was last on his priority list and felt invisable in the marriage unless he wanted sex or me to be a maid, gardener or DIY person. I became so resentful that he was only nice to me when he needed me to do something for him. I stopped doing everything including having sex and instead of him wanting to work on our marriage he just lined up a new supply who would be submissive and he discarded me left me in limbo for 2years so I decided to divorce him so I could move on and be free. Live on my own with my dog now but not as lonely as I was living with ex neglectful narcissist.
Everything you have said is me . I drank because I felt so unhappy for so long. I realised I was killing myself with alcohol. Thankfully I stopped, but I'm still living the same. Very lonely life. he totally is the neglectful narcissist unless he wants sex then back to ignoring me, grunts, or smirks, or name calling. His rage is still horrendous and can happen so unexpected. I'm so grateful I'm not alone 🙏
My sister had tried to figure out what kind of man she was married to... Disconnected partner, father and relative... Always reading on the dinning table... Disconnected...Always having to spend time in his bedroom watching tv, reading, or working from home... Great and generous friend... Top sales person... Good provider, though... Bread crumbling everyone in the family... A silent, passive-aggressive entity that has been absent from her life from decades! Thank you for another eye opening delivery!!!❤
Your sister's (ex?) husband sounds very similar to my father. Very similar. Good provider, but didn't care to spend time with the siblings or me, nor did he want to meet my Mom's or my or my siblings emotional needs, either. Dad seemed to prefer to spend most of his spare time when he got home from his job watching TV. He didn't want to spend time with me or my siblings.
Oh I just can't stop crying. I'm 58 years old and you have just described my father (and me) in a way that has never fully touched on the dynamic before. After he passed away about 12 years ago I thought perhaps that he might have had Bi-polar Disorder because I knew there was something radically wrong with him and the manner in which he was so totally absent in all of our lives yet there at the same time. The fact that my late mother was so warm and present and affirming somehow even highlighted his disdain for me and my siblings even more. Yes, he had a brutally abusive childhood which may go to the origins of his behaviour. I hated him and loved him at the same time but never felt that he even liked me a little. When he was rarely not ignoring us, he was behaving like a tyrant and put us and my mother through some terrifying situations. People outside our home always spoke so highly of him as he was a pillar of the community and his workplace. I used to think 'if only they knew'. I am crying because of what you said near the end about it not being personal as my life has been a mess and I am divorced for 7 years from a narcissistic man. My 16 year old daughter lives with me for half of every week. When she is with me it is as if a light has been turned on and my life means something and I feel great joy in her presence and am able to be a good mom to her - I think. When she is gone, I fall into a consistent pattern of self-neglect and isolation and grief. I have never fully recovered from the loss of my mother. I had to fight to get a surgery for my father a couple of years before he passed away. He was dying at the time for the want of surgery and only had days left as he had blood poisoning. I went to see him in the hospital and for the first time ever in my life he asked 'How are you Der?' and when I was about to leave he said 'I love you pet, don't you know that?' and I lied and said 'Yes Dad, I love you too'. I am grieving and crying over the loss of my own life and my lack of self-awareness or the means to get appropriate help. I don't want the rest of my life to play out like this and in some strange way, I don't really think he would want to see me like this either, but I don't know what to do. I'm not a 'victim' kind of person. This is the first time I have ever told this story to anyone. I'm sorry and I'm not sure for what.
It will be okay. You have a gift, your daughter. Your other gift is yourself. The grief and understanding of what's happened takes a very long time, it's ongoing and two steps forwards and three steps back. It's not easy because it was decades of being brainwashed. You have compassion for your father and what he went through, you understand it, you appreciate the good things that he did. Now imagine he was just someone you knew and not your father and the person he was. You'd still appreciate their good side have empathy for their difficulties BUT you would also look at the damaging side with clearer vision. You wouldn't accept the harm it was causing you for the odd time they said they loved you. You'd value your opinion more because you'd be on equal footing, a child, even an adult child, never has that equal footing. We always think our parents are different somehow. This cognitive dissonance keeps us believing they're better than us and we are wrong. What's wrong is that he was abused, didn't do any self reflection and then passed that trauma on to you. If he had given you a parcel of poison you'd throw it to the ground and say I'm not taking that. He decided to have a child, you weren't forced upon him. Him saying I love you absolves himself. He could have said, I'm sorry I wasn't always there for you and acted so inappropriately because you didn't deserve that and I think you're a great person. Put another way, I have guilt for things I have done wrong (despite my not originally understanding due to my own history) and when I see myself do that now I correct my behaviour. Not correcting behaviour and saying I love you just confuses the recipient who ends up with that dialogue in their heads of 'maybe I'm the bad peraon'. Have compassion for yourself, reconnect with things you like such as a good book or gardening, whatever it is. Then when your daughter is away you're working on being you. The you that your father should have noticed but didn't because he was too busy being himself. Accept he may have meant those words, but ultimately the biggest gift you can give someone is acceptance of themselves and that they matter ✌
This sooo hit home. Thank you for letting me know I am not crazy. 25-year marriage, I am feeling the same thing. Empty, lonely, abandoned, invisible. Weeks of silent treatment. NEVER helping around the house. Not reliable, not trustworthy, there but not there. No conversation, no emotional support, very little engagement and certainly no sex or other intimacy.
Wow!! I wish I had heard every word of this video 30 years ago. It would have saved me a lot of wasted time and energy trying to get my mother's attention, trying to "earn" her love and it would have spared me a whole lot of heartache. My mother always seemed disinterested in me from the time I was born. When you talk about children needing to be seen and witnessed it really struck a chord. I was raised to believe that children were there to obey their parents. It wasn't about the parents showing love and encouragement for the children, it was about the children praising their parents for all "they did for them." I am glad that I am the one who is finally breaking the cycle of emotional starvation that comes from mother's family. My mother is the youngest of 8 children. She told me one time that my grandmother (a really covert and neglectful narcissist), that when she found out she was pregnant she thought about "taking something to flush herself" as she did not want any more children, but she was "so glad that she didn't when she saw my mother's face. WTF!!!! What type of mother talks like that? She was a very manipulative and dramatic. And her mother died of cirrhosis in her early 50's. She had lost two young children and had to have been extremely depressed. And I'm sure the pattern of emotional neglect goes back much further. My two youngest sisters have carried on this legacy of emotional deprivation with their children too. Sadly they have crippled their children by making them feel less than by belittling them and shoving religion down their throats. My mother has severe dementia now. I am no contact with my sisters and their families due to their toxicity. I can have compassion for their ignorance and I also want nothing to do with them. It's up to them to solve their own problems. I can't. Thanks for all you do, Dr. Ramani.
I really appreciate this. You’ve described my mom. She lives down the road, and has minimal interest in our children, her grandchildren. The pain of seeing our children ignored by their grandmother while she goes on daily outings- never taking them out for ice cream or for a bike ride together like she does with her boyfriend- it hurts. Then there’s the random meanness or sudden interest and just as sudden ghosting. Confusing. My sister has told me for years that Mom doesn’t care- I am starting to accept it now. Thank you for explaining and for all your free resources.
I sympathise: my mother never took any notice of me, indeed she seemed determined to sabotage everything I wanted to do. She wouldn't let me apply for university even though my sister (the golden girl) was already there. When I eventually studied and gained a degree in later life whilst working almost full-time, there was no comment from her at all and she didn't bother coming to the graduation ceremony. LIke you, she took very little notice of my daughter growing up and almost none of her great-grandchildren who kept asking me who she was. I have to say when she died two years ago I just sighed a huge sigh of relief and felt empowered.
Holy cow. This perfectly describes my past life!!! It was BRUTAL! Always alone, ignored, baited…neglected, and psychologically abused. Confusing and painful. I was his “cover.” I can breathe now. 7 years out!
I am SO glad to have found this channel. I would be completely defenseless without this knowledge. I will no longer get angry and take the bait, no more reacting! Thank you Dr. Ramani.
Good luck with not reacting. You might do well for a good while but there will likely be a time when you will snap. But that’s okay though because we are human. Just go right back to ignoring his baiting.
this is it!!!!!!!!! 30 years with a neglectful narcissist. Crazy making. And that's me. Even though I got away from him 19 years ago. Only just starting to get my shit together
I was neglected and the people were narcissists, but I'm not sure if they fit the full description of neglectful narcissists. They cared a lot about other people's perceptions of them and they became more aggressively abusive when I was in a health crisis. My ex-husband (diagnosed ASPD/NPD) completely ignored me so much so that he went to bed and fell asleep while I was literally dying in front of him. , so it was a shock to see the effort all of them put into destroying my life! In the discard, neglect became aggressive abuse, as my sons and I were mobbed and scapegoated by everyone who should have been most concerned about me and my children. I almost didn't get out alive, and ultimately I couldn't save my sons.
Oh. My. God. 😑 I’m invisible unless I’m needed for something. I feel more alone and lonely when I’m in his presence than when I’m alone. I was once “the love of his life “. We’ve been married for forty years. I left for twelve of those years however, we have a son together. I gradually got worn down and came back. We shared custody so I had to have contact with him. He did everything he could to make my life difficult. Now, like you said, I’m a ghost in my home. It’s so painful that I can’t even put it into words. I exist. I no longer have a life, I just exist. I feel like my hands and feet are tied and I’ve been thrown into a pool n told to swim. 😢 I feel confused all the time. I’m in a fog. I’m at a low point like I’ve never been before. I would never hurt myself. JS. I just want to be happy again.
Please don't give up on yourself. You are worthy of love and recognition. I felt like this, too. You are still valid. You are still important. Don't give up on you!
I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. I don't know all your situation, but if it's possible for you to get out of the house, you could maybe get some of your emotional needs met by getting out of the house and being around other people, like volunteering at a charity, getting a part time job, etc? Being around normal people could maybe help your mental health and help you gain new perspective on things and not feel so alone and isolated.
I was in the same boat. I just started buulding my own life outside of his. I learned a second language online (for free!), found a church in my city that speaks that language, made new friends there etc.
Had the flu once then finally went back to work and called “oh best beloved” that day, and I started to cough during conversation…He asked as if concerned, “Oh, do you have a cold or something?” It also took him over an hour to bring me a glass of water while I was sick that week. He had to take care of all his business first, making coffee etc. …one of a million examples that I finally wised up to eventually and moved on. My biggest regret with all this is the impact his style has had on our four children as they were growing up and now as adults. There was not enough info on this 30 yrs ago.
People don't be hard on yourselves especially if you have been in a relationship for a long time. There just wasn't info - the fact that's still partly lacking in society.
This description perfectly describes my late father. For years I thought he was simply "the strong silent type" or autistic, but he had all of the neglectful narcissist characteristics. His brothers must have had the disorder too maybe in different versions. My mother was the dependent personality type and totally intimidated by him. She made me believe when I was little that he was such a great father and provider and, hard worker. I think these behaviors had a negative influence on me. Only after both passed away I was able to find myself and my way in life.
Thank you Doctor Ramani, this is an important category! My first husband was a "malignant" narcissist. I married a second time to get away from my first ex-husband who was still bullying me. Then my second husband's behaviour puzzled me, he didn't scream in my face or insult me like the first one! No, this one "ignored" me and paid attention only to his computer and his computer friends! He never ever wanted to go out to do anything together. He acted like he was still single, spending any extra money only on himself, beer, cigarettes and whiskey! Also his arrogance and chauvinism was outrageous! I felt as if I was living alone constantly. He never introduced me to any of his friends or coworkers. I think they must have thought I didn't really exist! I am a little shocked that this description falls into the narcissism category but now it certainly makes sense! All the puzzle pieces are finally fitting together. Now sadly I realise I have wasted yet another "10" years of my life on an undeserving spouse!
I've already mentioned this elsewhere in the comments on this page, but I think my father may be a Neglectful Narcissist, but some of what you wrote describes my sister's long time, now ex-boyfriend. My ex fiance was also very self absorbed, but not in the same way that your second husband is. Your second husband sounds like my sister's long time ex boyfriend - her ex wouldn't help pay bills (she had to pay for everything), he would spend much of his time on the internet with his internet pals, and he would spend the rest of his time wrapped up in his hobbies. Whenever her ex did get an occasional part time job a few times over the years, instead of helping her pay bills or buy groceries, he'd spend 99% of the money, 99% of the time, on him and his hobbies. My ex was self absorbed, but in a different way (well, my ex did have one or two negative qualities in common with my sister's ex boyfriend and your second husband, but overall, there were more differences) - but I could sit in a room with my ex and still feel all alone. Definitely have that one in common!
Yep... Sounds just like me, 1st kid's dad (malignant - abused me in all forms, and then stalked me in the post separation abuse situation). 5 yrs gone/wasted... 9 years later I meet my 2nd kid's dad ( how lonely - just felt alone, no help from him at all) he rarely purchased anything for our daughter, and then blames me for the lack of closeness between them 🤦.. Neglectful narcissist ...yep spot on .. with some covert qualities aswell.. another 8.5 yrs of my life wasted. I'm done with relationships. My pecker picker is Soo broken!
Louisa what you write belongs to a movie screen. How sad this has been. I encourage you to read and watch videos of Dr. Ramani about trauma bonding and cognitive dissonance. You probably come from a Narcissist parents or caregivers. Your story have crushed my heart. When you left your malignant N .. you were so vulnerable and trauma bonded that was so easy to connect with the neglectful dismissive one. Wow .. this is really unbelievable story. Now, pick up for life and you go girl .. continue on therapy. Dr. R’s healing programs are amazing. You will be the person you were set out to be. Happy and at peace.
This was my ex-husband of 26 years. I wish I had known what this looked like when I was in the middle of it. The loneliness, empty promises when he wanted something, paying attention to everything else (like work, sports etc), not having 5 minutes to talk to me, hoop jumping, blameshifting, losing myself, not feeling worthy. He ruined every holiday and birthday. He used me and used me and blamed me for everything if I said one thing about what was important to me. He used everyone for what they could do for him and so arrogant as the smartest person in the room always. This came from my step-father, who was also a neglectful Narcisst. His father went between being neglectful and explosive Narcissm. I eventually learned to not include him at all in my life... I wouldn't fight and learned to stop caring. He didn't notice for 3 years. This whole video is spot on. The 5 different counselors we went to never saw this... it was devastating.
They act bored and disinterested in you Yet, at the same time have an active social life outside their relationship It's almost as if being around you bored them to death Yet, they act animated around others
Oh wow, man- felt like a big foot stuck out & tripped me just now. Sounds like mine. The facial expressions I caught him giving me in the happiest & relaxing moments...I ...man, to turn my head after we just talked & laughed- then to see a shift in his mood as if he is bored- sudden quietness and moodiness, withdrawal of affection, suddenly takes the stage...but let the phone ring or us around others- he was the life of the party. Like he only did what he felt was enough- as if I was of no value to him. The uninvited opinions & undermining responses to happy moments & smirking...the dismissed conversations shared with him. So un-nerving to see this grim transformation of a person you love...to see the loss of life & love they lack in sharing. It does make you feel like a pet minus the petting on the head.often would wonder, but then the Lord who is faithful reminds me of His unfailing love for me. Thank you Lord- you've got a greater purpose & plan for me.
This video spoke directly to me. I’ve been married to a narc for (as of 4/28th) 20 yrs who is a neglectful narc. I have had serious health issues throughout the years and wondered why he never went into the hospital w/ me or even to visit when I was there for months on end. My latest surgery was this last November, the biggest one yet. I came home on a feeding tube and as usual he was nowhere to be found. Being as sick as I was/am he continues to ignore me and when he does speak it’s nothing but put downs and insults. Thank you Dr. R. for helping me realize it isn’t me…..it’s him! May God continue to give us all strength to move forward. They won’t change but we can. ✌️❤️🙏🏻💪🏼
Gosh, this is such a good video for people who struggle with a passive-aggressive, covert narcissist who breadcrumbs you and treats you with sullen disdain, pouting, keeping you wondering what you've done wrong. They love to hold grudges! Tough with someone who is COMPLETELY devoted to certain others, but keeps you as their scapegoat! You don't even know what they are mad about, except that you get the impression that they mad because you sometimes took care of yourself and said "no" to their demands sometimes over the years. BIG GRUDGES!!!!!
Thank you for making this video. I know it's rare, but that's why we really needed someone to cover it. Feels even more isolating when no one knows what I'm talking about.
These narcissists are the absolute best at victim playing because they’ll ignore and forget and dismiss every single thing about you or your needs, but don’t necessarily go out of their way to harm anyone. So when your entire life gets ruined by their neglect, bc they “forgot” about medical issues or bills they had to pay or something important at work or whatever it Mah be, they easily make YOU the villain for being angry. They blame it on their ADHD or autism, on anxiety or being Stressed, and now you’re the villain for having l brought up that their behavior has negative consequences. These are people desperate to be judged by their intentions instead of their actions. In my experience, they ruin life way worse than any “malignant” narcissist.
I think my Dad is quite possibly a Neglectful Narcissist, but I never got a victimhood vibe from him. But I've attracted a lot of Vulnerable Narcissists over my life, most of them friends. I just dumped one of them, an ex friend. She had a big victim mentality. It was draining to be friends with her because of that. Tried to get her to talk about fun or happy topics, but she only wanted to bond over negativity and complain about how unfair her life is and was, how everyone is terrible, etc. I think Self Pity and "I'm a victim" mindset are more traits of Vulnerable Narcissists than the Neglectful ones.
Raised by a narcissist, moved out at age 15. At age 23 married a narcissist, dang it all -( I think it felt familiar) , was advised that I was gun shy, ignore gut. Stay married 15 years & birth a child. Read a book Should I stay Or Should I Go. I go. 4 years later, I marry the neglectful. We have a child, he grows and I am now at age 63 - accepting is my constant. Oh, and now also caregiver for my 83 year old narcissistic parent. Understanding what was happening in my world took so long. Thank you Dr Ramani, 2015 I began understanding narcissistic behavior, though the word had been said. Thank you.
My husband is not physically agressive, but is neglectful... he could see me crying and not care, stopped talking me for days, not complimenting me, ingoring me... making me feel im not enough, is very similar to evitative attachment...
My mother is a covert narcissist and a neglectful narc. Describing this new sub-category is very clarifying and a relief in a weird way because it describes her behavior to a "T." Can't draw water from a stone.
Oh my gosh, someone finally put a name to it 😭 I can never accurately describe my ex because he’s not a typical narcissist. He never checked up on me, he wasn’t jealous, he didn’t call me names, etc all the things you think of when you hear the word narcissist. He completely disconnected from me when we got married and started having kids. He always wanted to be alone but to an extent that was over the top. I like being alone but he would even eat dinner separately from us, would go to the movies or dinner alone, which wasn’t a problem necessarily, most just thought it was weird but it worked for us. Until it didn’t, which was mainly because, at least from my perspective, he never EVER helped to do anything to do with the kids. Never went anywhere with us, hell he didn’t even remember that my mom and I took both kids at 3 months and 2 years old on a plane across the country for a week. Has no memory of it. He was too busy with work. Would go river floating every weekend with his work friends saying that it was a way to advance his career. Which again, was fine, I was happy he had something fun to do, but it was every single weekend and when I asked if he could stay home one of the weekend days sometimes, he’d stay in the bedroom the whole time and wouldn’t interact with us hardly at all. Then that ocd type behavior you mentioned, it immediately made me think of the times I’d tell him I need to go to the store for a couple things and he’d ask what I was getting and then he would proceed to do the math in his head for approximately how much it should cost and would only send me the exact amount I should need. Down to the penny sometimes. Like ok I need milk, bread, and a couple drinks. He’d send like $11.30 because that’s all I should need. It was so strange. It’s weird because this is exactly what I’ve been looking for, some kind of explanation of what on earth was happening. Because I’ve got a textbook narcissistic ex that threatened me and called me every name you could imagine and all that jazz. Textbook covert narcissist. But my ex husband… I just couldn’t put my finger on what it would be called. Because so much of it was narcissistic. But with non of that typical mean or jealousy or checking on my every move. He never cared where I was or who I was with or what I was doing (which was nice sometimes I’ll admit) until it was effecting what he wanted to do. By the end of the marriage, I wasn’t even sleeping in the house, I was sleeping in the garage and if I’m being honest, I developed a pretty bad drug habit that likely stemmed and started from feeling invisible and like nothing about me even mattered. Not that I’m blaming him or the other ex entirely, I made the choices I made and I messed up my life pretty big and I’m working on being better now, but it’s been such a long road. I just want to feel normal and happy again. I want to feel loved for me and not for what I’m useful for. I want to be told the things I’m doing right along with the things I’m doing wrong so I can fix myself. So many years now I’ve only heard all the ways I’m bad and I deserve to be miserable and I’m worthless and to off myself and everyone would be better off. Now… EVERY SINGLE TIME someone tells me even the smallest thing I’ve done wrong or disappointing, I will disappear or rage or both and then go cry by myself and make bad decisions. Rinse and repeat and I don’t want to be this person anymore.
Neglectful narcissist is when whether they're physically present or not, it's all the same When they're absent, you don't hear from them When they're present, they don't pay attention to you You could just as well cease to exist
I feel like at 58, it’s too late. I feel old and I allowed him to isolate me and prevent me from working. I’m financially dependent on him now. I’m so upset with myself.
There are double standards in my family. It's OK for some of them to ignore my requests to help with our aging parents, however, I am called out for not attending a get together or hand delivering gifts. The only time a sibling responded to me, was when I was offering a free ticket to an event. Now...silence. My counselor called me 'the utilitarian sister.' They will respond, when they can benefit. I am tired of the excuses, the blame shifting, the accusations, the flying monkeys. I am working on radical acceptance. Thank you, Dr. R.
Sounds like my step sister but it's complicated there are double standards everyone everywhere deal with double think every day it's a sighn of the times I think or a Gen x thing we had so much freedom nobody was parenting .
This is one of the most validating and illuminating things I've seen so far. I could never explain to myself nor to anyone else my relationship with my mother... Why I don't love her nor care about her even though she swears up and down how her kids are the most important thing in her life. She is only capable of dealing with small children and that's like they're pets. Talks to me and my siblings like we're toddlers and only about herself, her grand achievements (they're really not) and what she's feeling and thinking. I grew up in silence and loneliness, she barely interacted with me in any meaningful way. No mirroring, no communication, no teaching. Now at 31, after another abusive/narcissistic relationship and 15 years of battling bad mental health, I realize how it made it impossible for me to feel like my feelings and needs are important and worth noticing, caring and dealing with and how it's damaged me and held me back throughout my life.
Oh my God I was with one of these for 8 months! I knew something was wrong but I couldn't figure out what. I could see narcissism and avoidant attachment style but it never made 100% sense, until now. It was horrible abuse. At the end I almost apologized for existing. It broke my self esteem. Thank you for this!
So true. It’s lonelier feeling alone in a relationship than actually being alone.
Agreed!
That’s exactly how I see it. However when I threatened to leave, he’d crack up and appear broken. He’d bend over backwards to correct his behaviour, within a week he was back to, the same old same old. It’s a no win situation, they can’t change.
💯❤️❤️❤️
Been there.
Even being lonely alone is better than being lonely in a relationship. It's wild.
They care when you stop caring.
"Don't let their neglect of you foster your neglect of yourself"
SO important!! 🙌🥰
Well said. ❤ I'm slowly trying to stop neglecting myself. 😢
Totally! My mother is appalled that I have 8 cats (all former strays) and always put their needs before mine. Last month it was my birthday, and she wanted to give me some money, as a present; but when I happily said, "Great! I'll buy something for my fur babies!", she immediately went like, "Nope. I'm not giving you any money, unless you spend it all on yourself!"
Mommy dearest, I wonder who and when first convinced me that my needs, dreams, and aspirations did not matter? I think I know the answer, do you?
So powerful and probably one of the greatest consequences of trying to maintain such a relationship!!!!
I resonate with this so much regarding my son. He is my only child, I wanted more but had a number of miscarriages. He ignores my texts, calls, I don't see him for months. I have a neuro condition, which has deteriorated so I can no longer drive 25 miles to see him and 25 miles back. His father (my ex husband) suddenly died of heart attacks in September. My stepdaughter who I have always had a good relationship with called me to say their dad had died suddenly. The long and short of it is he didnt attend the funeral, I did , and he knew this. I wanted to be there for Lucy as she had cleared the bungalow all herself and organise the funeral. Also his sister and nephews attended and always had good relationships with. Yes, he was grieving, and they had been estranged for 16 years. On Christmas day at my son's house, he was off, none of the usual cuddle. Thr atmosphere you could cut with a knife. He baited me, belittled me, said I was too loud. He said he didn't know I went to the funeral and had to find out from his half sister, which is untrue. The dismissive tone and snarky remarks. I spent 2 hours talking to him, my husband tried to talk him. I know he is hurting, but his dad was never a father who spent quality time with him, preferring to drink, and left him at 10 to live in Spain for 6 years. He came back and then they fell out about my son age 18. They never spoke again. I realise this is part of the problem, but after 2 hours of talking to him, cudddlìng him, I had it and said this is going nowhere, he didn't want to resolve this. He chucked my boots against the wall, open the door and told me he is a grown up, and this is his house, and for me to get out. He went upstairs and his husband said he should go and see if he is okay. I had a coffee and left. I am heartbroken. I know I wont hear from him. 29:58
I did that. No more.
They’re like this when alone with you but are the life and soul of the party with other people.
Emotion for a narcissist equates to fuel. They want to hear you getting irritated. They want to get you annoyed. They want your voice to rise and see the tears of frustration welling your eyes. When they see this, it makes them feel so powerful.
It’s their supply. It’s so gross. Most people garden or cook or have hobbies but not these type people…they seek conflict and it isn’t available, they create it.
@@Figureitout933 holy crap, jane
THAT IS..Preeeetty MUCH it right there, isn't it? You got it! Couldn't have said it any better myself. I hate to HAVE to admit that too. I SERIOUSLY feel for ANYONE that has to live through anything even remotely related to this. I knew there were 'arrogant' people in the world but..damn! Them? I can handle their b*llshit! As a matter of fact, I kinda welcome 'em now. At least I can SANELY argue with them. 😉 Ya know what I'm talking about, my friend? Of COURSE,you do!... I'm also sorry to have to say. 😁
They cannot handle it when you don't react when they're raging dysregulated and abusive and you maintain your calm without reacting. Maintaining your power.
The avoidant style is whimsical neglectful and emotionally dismissive. They don't respond well to rejection or leaving. Will blameshift with no accountability. They facilitate people leaving. A self fulfilling prophecy. And they're vindictive.. Approach - avoidance dynamic. Repetition compulsion.
@@sherriflemming3218 l
OMG. THIS IS MY CURRENT MARRIAGE. I'm in shock...this is actually scarily accurate. Now to figure out how to GTFO of this mess. Pray for me.
you got this girl! prayers for you
With u in the same boat girl! Will prayer
Same here. Renting another place will chop all my income so no way to escape. Be strong 💪
Wow, this hit home. I was stuck in a marriage with a neglectful/covert narcissist for nearly 20 years and cannot describe how lonely I was. I would try to explain my loneliness to him and he was completely dismissive. I felt like I was alone -- unless he wanted sex, then he'd pay attention to me for a split second. It got to the point where I was so exhausted from doing literally EVERYTHING for our household that I just couldn't meet that need anymore and he began to get angry with me. He argued that I was "always tired" and always had an excuse, and that I wouldn't have the opportunities I have without him. The final straw was when I attempted to have one last conversation with him and explain to him that it's not fair that I am doing everything for our family and I need his help. He replied with a stone cold straight, matter of fact reply... "Well, sometimes life just isn't fair." And that was it. Now here I am in the middle of the fight of my life, leaving him behind. I'm still exhausted mentally, emotionally and physically, but at least I'll have something to show for it - my freedom and happiness (and hopefully my kids too!).
Stay strong. You deserve peace and joy.
Uncanny when reading your comment how it mirrors my world with my narc husband of 20 years. I’m still in it and not sure how to leave. The loneliness is unbearable 😢 I feel alienated by my friends because he is so rude towards them that they no longer come around (at least my male friends but he has problem with any of my female friends). He’s so insecure that even going shopping without him he’s calling me and even when I am working. However when we’re together, he’s always on his phone. I can’t wait until my daughter comes home from college so at least I will have some companionship. Many conversations with him about this issue leads to no changes!
@@tonyamorgan6384 yes, this is exactly how my marriage is/was. I am glad your daughter is in college and not at home anymore. I am going to guess you are not working? If not, say you want some purpose in your life now that the kids are gone and just get a part time job. Something you enjoy. And put that money in a separate account where he can't access it. Gather up any important paperwork you can find and make copies. Plan everything. Find an attorney who understands narcissism well and who is willing to fight for you. Then leave. You have been strong enough to stay all these years and you deserve to be happy. If it helps, write out the pros and cons of your marriage. Get a good counselor who can help you though this. It will be worth it for you to live the rest of your life happy either doing what you want to do and being who you are, or finding someone who truly loves and cherishes you.
This was my story too! It's like he could t care less I was a live in maid and ghost! And when I left, he was flabbergasted! He couldn't understand why!!! Wtf??
The peace and joy is insurmountable. I can't wait until you and your kids are free of that loser who didn't know a good thing when he had it! You will blossom in the sunshine of freedom!
@@starlingswallow right?! My soon to be ex didn't understand why I filed for divorce either. Thank you so much for the encouragement! I cannot wait to be free and finally experience real happiness!
After 15 years with a neglectful spouse, the part of me that cared finally died. Now I am the one who is dismissive, cold and disinterested.
This is me...I feel like my soul has died.
37 years! I have a responsive neglectful demeanor towards my wife. Wasted years and thousands of dollars on counseling. Finalizing plans for gray divorce.
I am almost in tears to read this. Please recover yourself. It is possible don’t give your Narcissist your ultimate power. Come back .. your are a beautiful soul you deserve to be loved and love But the real love, not the pathological one
Same here. Eight years of emotional cruelty and neglect from him killed off a part of me. I stopped feeling human a long time ago.
Look up the duel mother theory. It helped me, and probably will help you🥂
I have known for 30 years that my father was a narcissist, but this video finally puts the missing pieces in place. My father treated me with indifference, contempt, disdain, dismissal, disinterest… but it was the indifference and disinterest that hurt the most. I'd ask him to give my friend and me a ride to the pool and he'd say "I'm too busy" and then sit on the couch and read a magazine. If I wanted to join an activity at school he'd say no because he didn't want to lift a finger to facilitate. I grew up watching other kids get to do things and see their parents spend time with them and give them hugs and it was so confusing. Every. Single. One. of my school events he'd say "Tell them I'm too busy" or "Tell them I can't make it". He refused to go to my HS graduation because it would be "boring". I asked him once why he'd stopped taking pictures of me and he said "Well, you just weren't interesting anymore." I learned I was a burden and I didn't matter and I'm still often surprised when I walk into a room and people 1) notice my existence and 2) are actually happy to see me.
The Neglectful Narcissist ignores you 99% of the time, and won't even return a smile, but may ask the nosiest and the most intrusive personal questions with a sense of entitlement the one time they speak to you. To be sure you are dealing with a Narcissist, just ignore them back. Stop greeting them, stop answering their texts, stop taking their calls and stop being available. Watch how hurt and passive aggressive they get. It's like "I owe you nothing, but you owe me everything you have".
My ex asked the nosy questions so he could throw it back in my face later on to act like he was better than me.
agreed
Waiting for a bus that isn't going to come...That explains so much. Thank you!
Living with this neglect is crazy- making for me. It’s not something you can explain to anyone else. The public face of the neglect is never seen. It is definitely something you experience alone.
right. but what hurts even more is the pretending to be so attentive and loving to you in front of others, but as soon as its the two of you, back to nothingness.
Exactly my problem now. My friends and family don’t understand
Yes, it's maddening.
@@teresarenee3829exactly!
I completely understand. If I try to share with my friends how it feels or what happens, and they always think I misinterpreted. Hurts. Lonely and confusing.
We definitely need more content on this type of person.
She has put out a plethora of information on this.
@@amandaa2119 I have not seen videos by her specifically on indifferent (neglectful) narcissists, and I have listened to hours and hours of her info. Most info is on raging, controlling narcissists, not ones that want nothing to do with you. Could you direct me to the videos you mean?
Cyclestopper: you are so right. This type of narcissist is so subtle. They do not rage. They avoid. They neglect by their indifference. When you are little, they provide basics of food, etc. They go through the motions. But no affection, no listening to you, no time spent with you. If you are female, no help becoming a woman. The list of things they don't do goes on and on. It isn't the kind of thing you can pinpoint when it is happening. How can kids know what a loving mom is like? Giving you the bare minimum fools you into thinking you matter. In fact, they are anxious for you to go away. They also can be very jealous of you as an adult. I can not overemphasize the damage done by such a mother. You grow up taking care of yourself without knowing how to take care of yourself. You develop very unhealthy ways of coping and you don't understand what is wrong with you. I realized very late in life I had been alone all my life, desperately trying not to be. In later adulthood, I also found myself feeling so guilty about what I had or hadn't done to bring such indifference on me. That is the hardest part because it makes breaking your trauma bond to your mom next to impossible. You live in limbo waiting to know what is next.
@@nancybartley4610 I could have easily written this word for word. Thank you for articulating and sharing your experience so eloquently. Being alone for so long breaks my heart daily.
@@kburton1244 Those of us who experienced an indifferent mom, to put it mildly, have been doubly alone. 1.) In childhood we were motherless children. 2.) We have lived our adult lives alone because we went without knowledge of this specific form of narcissism and support for dealing with the confusion and guilt it creates. When I was little, I wish she had just slapped me silly and said she wished I had never been born. I would have learned something was very wrong much sooner and perhaps been able to rectify some degree of such damage. Instead, I have lived blaming myself and feeling guilty that I was a bad daughter. Who knows, maybe I was a bad daughter. Like Dr. R says, being raised by such moms creates neglectful narcissists. So I was trained by the best and probably neglected my mom in return. That is the crux of the dilemma I lived with until hearing today's video. I hated myself for failing my mother. Fortunately, I did not have children. I could not live knowing I had hurt my child as my mom hurt me.
I am sorry for all of us to whom this happened. It would be so valuable if we could form a support network. I would like to hear from others who found today's video valuable in that it finally explained our experiences. Thank you for reaching out. All the best to you.
The most hurtful thing that I recall by being in this type of relationship was the fact that my friends never believed me. They only saw the “social” being who would only come out in public. Nobody understood me until one day, my dad saw it right before his eyes. He told me “if this son of a $&#% doesn’t love you, divorce him!” Too bad I waited 9 years to do so. Now I’m happily married to a wonderful human being and we love each others company!
I am so happy to hear that for you! You definitely deserved it. I'm married to one...and I completely shut my affectionate nature off , because he acted like it irritated him.😢
Lucky you had a Dad that cared
Same. So few could see it.
That’s exactly what any caring mum or dad should say.
You know, my dad tried to warn me of mine when he first met him (he told me he knows tgis man's M.O....never forget that...and at that time I was like "huh?! Wut do u mean?!")...my dad was so out of character about it that I brushed it off, thinking I'd allow him time to get to know him. In a multitude of councel, there is safety...always love yourself and the people the Lord places in your life that love encourage and support you- sharing truth in love- that's our safety. They will lovingly warn you of the wolf in sheep's clothing.
I was treated like this as child..... from my mom.. no one taught me hygiene, hours playing alone,no conversations.... only time i was spoken to was to be her therapist and listen to her problems thats it.
Sorry this happened to you and I totally understand... this was my exact childhood too !
I also have an older sister, five years older who is also the same way... I have no one memory of her talking or playing with me, I was invisible to her and my Mother !
It's no child's responsibility to be a parents therapist.
Oh my god, It was the same for me. I took refuge in books. Today that I am an adult, she suddenly wants to be friends with me ( while continuing to be awful with my little sisters). It was so confusing because she reappeared in my life when I thought I was done healing ( little did I know that It would take years). I am not comfortable with her at all and I am not even sure of what she wants from me suddenly. Maybe because I am her only unmarried adult daughter and she see the possibility to have some "glory" in a possible marriage?
It is so awful as a muslim, because of the stress on respecting and honoring our parents. Sometimes I doubts myself, I says to myselfs that it was not so bad after all, that she is a pious woman who pray every days and she often mention praying for us and for the family, so I don't know how I stand on that.
I pray god to turns her heart and to accepts her in his mercy nevertheless.
Darn I had it bad but thats messed up I put up with abuse until I got locked up a blessing in hindsight my hate was over the hill so too speak one spark and something was inevitable life is wierd though very much so.
@@mpenziwamungu731 I still maintain ties, but instill boundaries.. talking about 2 x a month only talk about weather nothing personal.
I have worded it that, "There is nothing more lonely than feeling alone in the same room with someone you love."
I feel like the family dog. Just someone to be here when he gets home but without the pat on the head.
Exactly the way I felt, too.
My dog is the only thing getting me through the loneliness in my marriage. At least he's always happy to see me.
@@jacobdiaz7999 I know what you mean!!! That's why I now have 5 dogs and 3 cats. They are my family and give me purpose.
Oh I can relate to this… unless he needs something…
I was behind even the dog!
This is my mom! It was so confusing because I didn't have a horrible childhood. She does so much for neighbors, church, the community... volunteers like a maniac. But she will easily go 3-4 months without talking to her adult children. She is super interested in her grandchildren when they are under 5 and she can do all the things she likes with them, but then loses interest as they develop their own clear personalities and interests. Growing up, we did the sports and activities that she wanted us to do, not that we were interested in. She made it to all of my award and scholarship events, but then left me alone to fend for things like senior photos, prom, important college tests, etc. She worked 5 mins away from our school, but was routinely late to pick us up from practice, meaning we and our coaches had to wait outside in the winter weather until she showed up, after all the other kids were already picked up. One time she forgot my brother entirely and he had to run home 3 miles in the freezing snow after dark. Several times I had to be hospitalized and the staff seemed genuinely surprised that my situation had gotten so bad before my parents brought me in. And then I went on and married a neglectful narcissist and felt the loneliest I ever had. On our honeymoon when there were finally no distractions or excuses, and he wanted no engagement, no physical or emotional connection, I knew I'd made a horrible mistake.
Oh you are not alone, i am dumbfounded by how accurately youve described my mother, even down to the disinterest in children 5yo+ that have developed personalities. You didnt deserve that kind of parent or partner, i hope youve found an emotionally intelligent and present person to have a relationship with instead
The upper part of your description sounds like my mom too. It’s so confusing. She likes me but rarely talks to me? Weird! 🤔
My ex did this. He thrived on being "super man"; dropping the ball, ignoring what I needed, and waiting until I was in complete meltdown mode then swooping in to save the day. He'd be the perfect image of a spouse and partner for a few days or a week, then slowly begin to let things slide again. Rinse and repeat, and repeat, and repeat. I literally began to lose my mind over it.
I'm sorry to hear this. I'm hoping you're in a better place now! You're worth to be seen and heard and to be loved. You can start by showing love and care to yourself with doing things/resources you love to do.
If you want to, you can seek therapeutic help. Wish you all the best 🍀
I know exactly what you are talkig about. Me too.I would fall apart and everyone says how sweet he was to stay with me and help his crazy wife. And he was the one driving me nuts with ignoring me and the kids and us not having enough food or clothes or even medicine for sick kids or the power turned off etc. Then he told the kids it was my fault. That I was spending all his money. I never had any money. He had it all. To this day the kids still think it was my fault. He played the martyr very well and still does. Good riddance!
Wow amazing discernment and detailed description of the process. Those savior type men are very unstable.
I did too. I almost checked myself into a mental hospital. Mine was seriously neglectful apart from his rage. His rage was horrifying.
Sounds exactly like my mother
I’ve lived with a neglectful covert narcissist for 31 years, and they NEVER miss an opportunity to throw you under the bus. Life with someone like that sucks, and the best thing you can do is leave them far behind. I can’t wait to get out of this.
That’s the video I needed today. I had been searching for one year in order to understand that phenomenon - when u have a partner, but he simply doesn’t take care of u, ignores u in so many ways. Neither does he take any responsibility for whatever in the relationship. And the best sentence is “I don’t know why u’re searching for trouble - I haven’t done a single thing.” 😢 Exactly. Not a single thing that happy couples do.
It can be very cruel to be the only person who makes the relationship work. There’s no empathy for the love-starved partner. Wow. Thanks from the bottom of my heart to Dr. Ramani!
I sat down trying to talk to him about feeling lonely in our relationship, he somehow started talking about his credit score improving… this is crazy. I feel so sad for him. The inability to “feel” what the other person is going through is beyond mind blowing. The best thing to do is to talk about nothing with them. Never give in, but never give up on yourself. Silently move forward. A brick wall has more emotions than a self centered narcissist. They will always put work first. That’s where the juice comes from. Most of them end up alone and in regret later on. I have seen this so often.
OMg! Yes! I've had similar conversations. They have zero empathy. Keep your cards close and don't share any personal feelings because they will turn them around on you and suddenly you're to blame - for everything!
You’ve described my husband of 40 yrs. Such a lovely man to everyone else…our house has been like a hotel for him. It took me 30+ years to figure out what was happening. I do get the head shakes, the eyebrow quirk, the smirks & he feels far superior to me. Our daughter has questioned whether he has ever loved her too. I know he doesn’t love me.
👍
30 years but the same…it ta keys along time to understand doesn’t it
Same with me. 27 years. I finally left
Been with mine over 30 years... taking control of my exit plan 🎉. I've had enough of his bs. Time for me to live my best life ❤
Oh the smirks!!! I hate those
Totally feel ya … 28 years for me
Stone walling was huge part of my long marriage with a neglectful narcissist. It’s terrible how he does this neglectful behavior with our sons.
There’s is deep sadness with those who try to love these people.
It's like living with a ghost. Yes, that sums it up quite well. The only one that matters in a relationship with a narcissist is the narcissist. It's all about them getting what they want, period. When you finally figure it out, you just want to get away from them. Thanks, Dr. Ramani, for helping me to see what I couldn't see before. It's not me, it's their inability to connect with anyone.
Well said!
I rather enjoy the company of a ghost than these psychos, because living next to one narc imply drama, gaslighting, lies, not to mention the suck of energy they take from us, and the trauma after leaving a narc relationship.
Narcissist never want to be identified and when they realize you have figure them out they get so upset and start a smear campaign.
DE-HUMANIZING
..to a point that it feels I might as well be dead- sounds much better than living with this emptiness- having sucked all the life, will, light out of a person.
It's hard to articulate how this actually feels on a daily basis.
Much love to fellow survivors.
Sending you love right back! 💜
My ex narc actually told me he "could give me a day or maybe 2 days a week". He is a retired person with no financial issues, but with many emotional issues. When I confronted this statement later, he said, "That does't sound like me!" I thought, this is exactly who you are. There was always a text, a trip or a "buddy" (oftentimes, someone the narc barely even knew) who "needed" him, but when I had cancer surgery, he told me he didn't think I needed emotional support because I was a strong, independent woman. Bye, bye loser ;)
Damn ! That's cold.
My ex used to say that a lot, as an accusation! You’re so strong, you don’t need me. Like it was his get out of being present for anyone in the household card.
Thing is, I think he knows he’s a neglectful narc. Whenever he’s caught dropping the ball and others may judge him the way he judges them, he says, “I’m not THAT neglectful.” Yes. Yes he is. And the kids and I can’t wait for him to ghost us for good.
Double fuck that!!
They always say we don’t need anything because we’re strong. They’re so pathetic and insecure they literally never help someone strong. They only help those they deem as “weak” to have control over them.
I’m so glad you dumped him! Oh man, what a jerk!!! Enjoy your life and meet a nice man. Pray. 🙏🏼❤️🕊
Thank you for covering this type of narcissist. My ex-husband is a neglectful narcissistic. People often excuse his behavior by saying it's just a "man thing"
Throughout our relationship, I felt like I was his mom, just managing his life for him. He was not a partner in any way. Very dismissive. He would walk around the living room and turn off the TV and all the lights while I was in there. When I'd ask him to stop he claimed that he didn't know I was there even though we were sitting together for a while.
He would get obsessive about hobbies. First it was music, then board games, and the final straw was when he became obsessed with religion. That's when he became scary.
Wow my neglectful narc husband does the same thing. Always has new obsessions that fade quickly. He does the same thing with the lights and TVs, even would be startled by me being in the bed..like every night. It began to make me feel hurt or just unwelcome. He couldn’t understand. I couldn’t really either. Such a sick twisted relationship. I feel completely depleted while he’s so blissfully unaware. After arguments I would be torn apart to shreds and unable to even function or sleep, he would immediately go on as if nothing happened and could fall asleep instantly. This was like torture for me. I could never understand it for years, but now so much makes sense. Thank you for this, I feel seen for once and the information and validation is so liberating. I’ll never again invest so much of my soul into another person who can’t reciprocate a single morsel of affection or emotion.
@tanyaanderson144 and what's hard is that "just being ignored" doesn't sound like a huge deal, but it is! I divorced my husband for many reasons, but one big one was that I didn't want my daughters to marry someone like him, so I didn't want to model it. We all deserve a someone who will engage with us regularly and be an active partner in the relationship.
I am in same situation- he is obsessed with doomsday/religion right now! And, he turns the lights off on me all the time. I was literally his mom for the last 20 years. Zero intimacy. Just excuses. He says, "God will take care of it." "Everyone makes mistakes." Then spews a bible verse or refers to pharoah or some other bs. Never listens to me. I am divorcing in June when I can finally start paying for it.
I get it. They parentize you - a covert narc will pull the victim card and you will be doing everything all the time. After years, you realize you became the parent and took on ALL the responsibilities - financial, emotional, etc. It's not a partnership in any way, shape or form.
This was my mother. When I was seriously needing to talk with her she had this little ditty she would sing - over and over again. "Yes! My Darling Daughter! Hang your clothes on a hickory limb but don't go near the water!" She thought it was funny. But it served its purpose of putting me off entirely, leaving me frustrated, hurt, and often tearful. Consequently, I stopped trying to engage with her at all. She didn't like me, didn't want me touching her, dismissively told me I was 'silly' when I asked her if she loved me, and generally made my growing up a well of pain. It took me many, many, many years to understand it wasn't me who was the problem. AND THEN, I married her in the form of my first husband who was and is the poster child for the neglectful narcissist. It's too bad because I like his current wife (who he cheats on) but her damage keeps her tied to him while he performs in the same way he did with me. Happy Ending, I am now in a healthy, loving relationship and life is good.
So sorry that your mom sang that song to you, it’s hurtful. My mom sang about me as Rag Doll. Sigh
Ohhh, so glad for your happy ending. Looks like you have healed well, still so sad your childhood wasn't a good one thanks to the mother.
Thank you for sharing that.
So happy for u and your happy actual relationship!
When I would go to my mother upset she would laugh and sing "nobody likes me, everyone hates me, I think I'll go eat worms". Then laugh. Kids hate being mocked and I learned don't go to her when you are upset. She doesn't want to hear about it.
😵💫a slot machine, what a fabulous analogy for what’s it like to be with someone like this. You can NEVER WIN NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. Even if you try to give them everything they want, they will turn round and tell you you’re not getting it quite right and anyway they want something different now.
25years I lived with a man who paid me zero attention unless he wanted something. He was distracted by his secret double life, NEVER said sorry for anything he did, I got absolutely no affection from him, he wasn’t interested in me, our children, or our home. It was like being a single parent working 3 jobs with no one to turn to for support, while he did as little work, parenting, housework as possible and spent all his time entertaining himself in his room, visiting friends and endless other women as I later found out. He was always a victim, poor little lost boy who’s mother and father neglected him and favoured his brother.
This is my ex husband, he gave his 100% attention to his mother, sisters, brother, his friends and anyone else but neglected our children and me.
Thank you for explaining this.
I hear you, and have experienced similarly. I'm emerging from a relationship of 15 years where I was devoted to him and his family, but he isolated me from mine. He's almost never bothered with my family and friends. I was always on his territory. I don't feel he meant to hurt me. I feel he was repeating how his workaholic parents treated him. He took care of himself in every way. I literally didn't matter. I feel devastated, but I'm also feeling better.
Well I laughed out loud when you explained the plant analogy. When I left my marriage of 20 years with a neglectful narcissist I said I was a dried up tomato plant and when that last tiny tomato fell off, I left. I had gotten a masters degree not really because I wanted it, but because I was a good student and I knew at least in that arena I would get something positive for my self esteem. Thanks for defining this neglect. I had put him in the covert category but it didn't quite fit. Dr Ramani, you are such a lovely gift to all of us,
I moved to, and lived in, a cold and unfriendly area, a US state. After about 10 years I said to someone I felt like a plant that was slowly dying. Way too long. Wish I had left quickly.
I also put my almost ex husband in the covert pile too but no this one fits him like a glove.
Yup...my neglectful father.... Took zero interest in my lovely mum and his kids... He lived with us...
He was also a communal narc- massively interested in people he met through his hobbies....
It was utterly grim growing up with this...
We never had the best of him
It was grim
Married to a neglectful man for 30 years. There was never even a love bombing stage at the beginning. I was a needy 16 year old girl who wanted love and a family. I thought I could make him love me by being the best wife a man could ask for. It didn't work. After decades of slowly dieing inside, my oldest daughter recognized my depression despite despite me being really good at seeming happy to the world. She gave me the courage to leave when she called and said "mom, you are not okay. You need to leave." A year out and I'm finally healing. Dr Ramani and Leslie Vernick have been my life lines.
Finally, an explanation of the neglect I went through as a child that makes sens. For a while now, I've struggled to accept that my parents were narcissists because they didn't fit the description. But this has hit the nail on the head! It has also made clear that my older sister took on the same personality trait. They had a way of making me feel invisible and inconsequential. I can remember many incidents of being completely ignored when talking to my Dad, or my Mom choosing to take a call from work while I was pouring my heart out to her over an emotional distress. I eventually just stopped asking to be heard, by anyone. Thank you for clearing this up. It helps me to accept the truth and no longer question and judge my memories.
I developed a depersonalization disorder, thinking as a child that I actually might be invisible.
There is not some inherent “badness” in you that your mom couldn’t love you. I used to think that. My mom actually told me “If anyone ever really knew you, they couldn’t love you.” I always thought it was my fault. You are not unlovable or invisible! ❤
@@lucindamoore6720❤
THIS. ALL OF THIS, OMG. I went from feeling so seen and heard, loved and wanted in the beginning... to feeling exactly like I didn't exist, didn't matter, had no importance or priority in his life in any way. He kept telling me he cared about me and that I was important to him, then showing me in every single way that I was none of those things. It was so hurtful and confusing. It completely destroyed me. My self esteem, worth, value. All of it. I kept doing more and more to try to make him happy, keep his attention, get his attention back and none of it worked. Including things I'm less than proud of. I got emotional, cried, begged, guilt tripped. I was being demanding of time he was unwilling to give, and it made me question if I was the entitled, enraged narc(once I learned about narcissism. There has been so much rumination). I was begging to get more than breadcrumbs from him. I was begging to be seen again. But it was more like once his use of me was done, I no longer had any value to him and was put up on a shelf like a toy he was bored with. I was in such a state of denial, because it is literally two people in one body, he could be so sweet, kind, compassionate, etc...as he was in the beginning... then so cold and dismissive. I didn't even know what narcissism was, or gaslighting. Just that I was in a very unhealthy, painful situation with someone I loved and who I thought loved me. Now that I know more about both, I can see just how badly I was manipulated, but I still question so much. Especially myself.
Their neglect does make the relationship engaging in a sick way. I'm exhausted. I'm all done.
Get out!!! As soon as you can!!
It is a slow and invalidating death. You pretty much summed up my entire marriage to my ex, minus his rage. It literally was hell on earth, and I could feel myself dying. I've been free almost 5 years and it feels amazing! Thank you, Dr. Ramani!🎉
Yes, I also felt this described my husband but he would have bouts of rage… He would often rage (including lots of insults, manipulation, gaslighting) and then run out of the house and be gone for days. I never knew how long or where he was or when he would come back. He did it to punish me and would never ever admit to his abuse. He just thought everything was my fault. At the end, he literally insulted me for a full 20 minutes and then told me the problem was how I didn’t respect him. Like ummmm, hello? You just insulted me for 20 minutes and you think I’m the problem? 🤦♀️ crazy… when things were calm, I never got any attention, unless a minute for sex or a disinterested “how are you?”…
In a sick way, it’s easier to deal with this narcissistic style because they mostly leave you alone… until you realize you’re just alone and doing everything yourself, plus putting up with their occasional rages, so what’s the point? Might as well just be alone for realz and not have to deal with their crap.
I'm 61 on disability and cannot afford to go anywhere. So I have put my attention to Jesus as my Savior. I'm no Martyr but after 30 years of being a homemaker and that not being recognized as valuable enough to recieve SS by the Government. It is what it is. I Grey Rock and take care of my emotional and spiritual and physical health as best I can. I may not be happy in this life but I'm promised by Jesus that I will be happy in the next and that is the Hope of Christ that sustains me. 🙏💝
God bless you
Thanks for making this video!! I was married to one for 18 years. He'd just come home from the office late (8 or 9pm) plop on the sofa and say nothing. Didn't matter if family was over, he'd barely acknowledge anyone. Blamed me for every little thing that was an inconvience or disturbed his comfort....he would lay some paper on the counter and freak out on me if it wasn't still there 6 months later. Never helped around the house, even just to load the dishwasher. I had to constantly remind him to call his parents. He had no friends. Very critical of everything I did. If I calmly told him that he wasn't saying nice things, he'd say he was "just commenting". Lucky he never talked that much then! I finally just checked out and found new hobbies/friends/church to keep me busy. Eventually he got sick and passed away suddendly. He was very overweight and never went to the doctor. After the funeral, I found tons of evidence he had been cheating on his many business trips. Awful life and grateful to be free of it all
The silence is deafening being lonely with someone.
This. This is what I've described as "I feel like furniture" for years now. Also, "I'm reduced to a set of functions".
I feel so utterly seen right now. Been searching for this narcissist description for a while, as I knew my ex was one but couldn’t pin down the fact that I was often ignored, felt worthless and there was barely any intimacy. Thank you Dr Ramani for opening my eyes!
Omgosh!!! This is soooo right on! I feel like an unwanted foster child in my own home! He’ll buy himself expensive food-get nothing for me!! List goes on and on.
In public, however, he’ll pretend to be so attentive! “Can I get you something to drink honey?”. Ugh. Makes me sick!!!
Oh yeh, always putting on a show in front of others.
oh yes the "honey" part always pisses me off.. are they serious? and mine will act like a parrot and repeat whatever the kids say to me at their games to act like he is attentive.. when i can clearly hear them cause they are sitting right next to me.
@@teresarenee3829 Yes, they are phony to the core!
This describes my ex narcissist perfectly, far more than any video to date. Vulnerable narcissist with an overlay of calculated laziness. Maximum psychological harm with the least effort, with the maximum plausible deniability. Extremely dangerous. Run when you can, and don't look back.
This is the first time my childhood and adulthood relationship with my mother made sense! I have listened to descriptions of other types of narcissism and my mom didn't fit. Now there is no doubt what happened. You described it perfectly. It is scary. I have spent my life feeling and acting exactly as you outlined and thinking something is so wrong with me. There is something wrong with me: I am the child of a neglectful narcissist. Thank you, Dr. R.
Oh my gosh! I was so jumping the hoops. The only attention I received was anger & blame. Never love!
This is exactly the type I’m dealing with. The relationship exists when I put myself in front of them and do the work. The moment I walk away there’s nothing. I’ve been in the delusion that I’ve lost the ‘good parts’ of the relationship because I’m not doing all the heavy lifting anymore. Sad, grieving. All my life chasing some connection and only getting a taste of it when I bend into a pretzel to get it. I love them so much but I’m so tired of the lack of effort. So I stopped and it is gone. Unless I make the effort again and I’m not sure I want to do it anymore 😢
Like you wrote if you stop giving into the relationship by not calling anymore for having new , helping others or giving your time to the loved one everythind will die by itself because of the lack of réciprocities and no feed back either.. but saying you are selfish or you dont call them anymore . We are nacissitic supplies , No love involve , they play a game and imitate to show they are a good person in front of other
The sad reality is he will never change and you will end up exhausted mentally and emotionally. Trust me. Like Dr. Ramani said you only matter when they need something. There is no connection, Even if you have kids together there is none. I was married to one and I have to say that I honestly regret the day that I met him. But you don't know what you are getting until it's too late. Don't blame yourself. I like to say that I gave all of the right things to the wrong person. You will always be leading, fixing, taking care of whatever, and giving because he won't. I had to be a mother and father to my kids I had three boy and he was never there for any of em. So if you can cut your loses and don't have any expectations because you will only end up disappointed and very, very tired. Take care of yourself. Sending you lots of blessings!!
I’m so very sorry & I too have been through this😿
The best advice I ever got about this was “Learn to separate how you feel about them & how you feel around them”
If we are neglected, they’re literally showing us just how little they value & respect us.
We deserve love that fits our values.
If we value affection & attention, it’s a losing game to try to crap fit to someone who doesn’t.
Take care of you🥰
@@cup_o_TMarie wow. I’ve never heard that advice! That makes so much sense! Thank you for the different perspective. Luckily my lifelong partner is not this person so I do feel fortunate in that. ❤️
It's like watching a psychological thriller, wondering, "who wrote this delusional mind blender?" It's never consistent, you meet the side that likes you, then suddenly this new person you don't know appears with a trap to entangle you into this whirlwind of "guess who/guess what/when" madness... you think breakthrough comes, then up jumps the boogie boo... my God, Lord JESUS help me! I know He will
I’ve been married with this kind for 26 years . I used to cry a lot but now I’m numb and don’t care anymore. Narcissistic people are evil…
This was incredibly important for me to hear because though I recognized I survived narcissistic abuse, the perpetrator didn't fit nearly into other categories....until I learned of this category of narcissism. It spoke volumes to me, esp the part about being so lonely with another human. The focus on work and their social life, absolute fomo , meanwhile I felt like a nice trophy to keep on a shelf for ten years.
Same here!!!
Exactly my position: "a trophy, when it suited the situation"
Same here. He didn't quite fit with covert or the grandiose. Neglectful fits perfectly. Mine doesn't scare me but he annoys me just often enough to get me worked up and angry and upset. I've been working on no contact and no reaction. Getting close to freedom!!!
I was on the shelf for 14 years. I felt like a fine bottle of wine on a high shelf collecting dust!!! 😂 He hardly ever slept with me, and the last 4-6 years we had sex 2 or 3 times total. It almost broke me.
My now wonderful husband is enjoying the hell out of me!! 😂😂
@@tammywallace5611so glad you're close to freedom!!!!🎉🎉🎉
True. All of it. Now that I no longer have any expectations of him, I don't feel lonely anymore. It's ridiculous. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not prisoner-warden relationship. I married him for love, not his love of attention. I'm out🏃🏽♀️.
My ex-husband to a tee. It was a miracle I got pregnant...I can count the number of times he touched me in 14 years of marriage. He was saving himself for his after hours conquests. It's a relief to finally know what type he is. "Dying on the vine..." is an incredibly accurate statement.
They love to ignore their significant other’s while jumping through hoops for friends and family.
100% FACTS
i was in those shoes 👟 crazy people feel sorry for them .
this is me now with the mother of my kids, its scary when the mask comes off
Boy, this one hits home. My spouse gives attention when there's something in it for him. On the other end of the spectrum, when his good friend calls or messages, it's incredible to watch the hoops that are jumped through. The almost constant criticism of my business and how it interferes with our personal life, while when we do have time together, he will bury himself in his work or another project that doesn't involve me. I definitely deal with the loneliness but not alone situation.
That is me right now.
@@ayla4844 I totally understand
I so relate. I don't think my ex is a complete narcissists but I think he has N traits that strengthened as we dated. I moved across the state by myself where I didn't know a soul in 2019, started my small cleaning business over again by posting flyers around the small town and eventually by word of mouth. Business was very slow from 2020 until the start of 2023 because of Covid & then inflation in 2022, but I managed to get by. My ex hired me to clean his house to get it ready to sell in 2021. That's how we met. At that time he was very kind and grateful. Would make me lunch and eat with me. Asked me questions & seemed gentle. Then a little over a year later he starts to tell me I'm lazy and should look for a second job. Keep in mind I rent my own house and pay my own bills. Never asked him for anything but xmas and bday gifts, and flowers on vday. And don't get me started on how my last two bdays with him went... Both bdays spent in tears and the last being my 30th bday I spent alone. I told him I just have to hang in there and things will get better. That I didn't want a second job and I have to have my schedule open to take on new clients. I was also dealing with stress and depression at this time. I did end up starting a side business making homemade baked goods though. And my cleaning business started doing better too. But just as things started looking up & I started feeling & looking better & hopeful again, he started acted weird. Being passive aggressive, hypocritical, mean spirited, and just uninterested. Not understanding that I get tired and burnt out when I work a lot and that I don't have as much energy & time to go around as before when I wasn't working so much. He was annoyed because I didn't work enough before and now annoyed because I'm working more and don't have as much time for him. I just can't win. And if I got upset and wanted to talk about stuff, he'd hang up on me and tell me that I'm drama. He's affectionate, cuddles, gives hugs and kisses but also says rude and hurtful things and can just be an asshole without even saying he's sorry after. Gives me psychological whiplash. Sorry for writing a book here.. I thought about deleting this but I need to get this all out and maybe needed some validation lol. I swing from missing him to hating him. Angry that he couldn't just love me like I love him and be more patient and understanding. We just broke up on Friday and I haven't talked to anyone about it. Thinking of your situation & I hope you stay strong as well. 💪
@Living in the Pines you nailed it when you said that you just can't win. It took me awhile to figure out that it's not my responsibility to be the ultimate source of his happiness - happiness comes from within. We are still together, and i do really love him but if I wanted to leave, the area we are in is too expensive for me to afford a place on my own and my original home is pretty far away, not to mention I'd have to re-establish my business. Hang in there, Pines, and take care of YOU. You're a good person, like me, and don't let someone take away your spark.
Do NOT allow him to ruin your business or your drive and desire Tobe successful. They are envious of people like this. If you have no kids, get out!
F r e q u e n t behaviour in men. No one has pointed it out yet as you, Dr R. I worship you for this.
I developed avoidant disorder as a result of both of my parents being like this. I was told to be seen and not heard by my mother, which works out great for predators. I have never truly been seen by either parent, they have no clue who I am and have never shown any interest. This video hit home hard and I feel seen! Thank you Dr. Ramani, if you could make more videos regarding this type of narcissism, I’d really appreciate it.
I've never felt more alone then I do when he's home because even when he's here, he's not here. When I voice my feelings about what I feel is happening, he has NEVER tried reassuring me, leaving me thinking what I'm voicing to him about what I feel is happening, must be true. I've left him once or twice he's never tried stopping me, but after a few days he's wanting me back and he does this by love bombing me and I come back because I think, well maybe he does love me.
My parents wonderful described.
They are interested in everyone but you.
They wrote us a wedding speech so unpersonal, that no one got the hint that they meant us.
But for my mother's boss, where they're invited, they did one they got standing ovations for- and told everyone about it.
They once said they're proud of their way of teaching and raising us (their children) to independence. I will always remember my later husband who sat with us at the table murmured under his breath:
"Nice way to describe your neglect and abuse." Years before someone else brought me to the realization that they're narcissists later.
Thank you, Dr Ramani, for this informational video. And especially for the explanation how to cope!
I understand you well Re: the parents.
I’m sorry for how they were. I’m glad though that you had a partner who really had your back & loved you like you deserve. 🙏
My father didn't even show up for most of his children's weddings.
Whoa. You just blew my mind. My parents called it the "hands off approach" 🤦🏻♀️ Yeah, they said they wanted to not give us any advice so that the decisions were ours but they gave NO direction, teaching or encouragement either!
Then, when I got out of my abusive marriage to the narc ex (mentioned above in this video + rage) they THEN started chiming in with their judgment and suggestions. Where'd the hands off approach go, guys? Huh??
I remarried, against their better judgment (pah!) which was MY decision, and on my birthday weekend they sat us down (my hubby 52yo and me, 42yo) and lectured us about me making more money than my husband (bad- they are traditionalists) and also about our lack of church attendance!
I'm mad I didn't pull out our drivers licenses to remind them of our ages! WTF?!?!
I went no contact for 4 months and then told them if they want relationship with us, it's going to be adult to adult. No more treating me like I'm an f-ing child.
😂😂😂
@@starlingswallow
The only mistake I see here is that you only did 4 months.
No contact means no contact.
No negotiation. No bargaining.
No contact.
Same situation with me. My mother had kids so we could look after eachother and entertain eachother so she and my dad could be high flying professionals. I was left minding two of my siblings when I was five while my parents went out to dinner and dancing on the other side of the highway. I can just remember seeing the car lights flashing by, being too scared to get help, going back and trying to cope with my brother's pooy nappy, not managing the safety pin and wrapping him in a sheet. At fourteen, I was left minding three siblings while my parents were overseas... The sad thing is that when we tried to argue for justice, we were beaten, or sent to bed without food... and we thought it was normal.
This was my mother. She ignored me all through my childhood. She ignored me when I was sick. She would walk past me in the street. She hated that I went to college. She did it to my brother before he died. We haven't spoken now for 20 years. And people think I'm the bad person.
I just wanted to let you know that you are not the bad person here, I also have a Neglectful Narcissistic mother and have not spoken in 13 years and counting. We are the strong ones that have let go, as they have no value in our lives, except misery and who wants that right. So just wanted to say that you are not alone and good for you sista.
Hope you distanced urself
This reminds me of the Karyn White song "Superwoman."
I'm not your superwoman.
I'm not the kind of girl that you can let down and think that everything's ok.
Boy, I am only human
This girl needs more than occasional hugs as a token of love from you to me.
I’m so grateful the algorithms suggested your channel. Dr. Ramani, thank you for sharing your expertise. After 15 years of personalizing his neglect, I finally understand what’s been going on. I didn’t learn about covert narcissism until last week, and now neglectful narcissism today. I feel so seen and heard, and you don’t even know me. 😍😂 The loneliness is so painful. The way you described their “contempt for closeness” and being treated like a vending machine hit like a ton of bricks. It’s now becoming so clear why he couldn’t even be kind to me when my mom passed, especially given his parents’ narcissism. I’m on the path to recovering my self worth and moving on so that I can heal and perhaps eventually find someone with a more secure attachment style, someone who has the capacity for intimacy. Even if I die alone, I won’t be as lonely with a dismissive and avoidant “partner” who only notices me when he needs something or is mad at me for things he will never reveal. No more personalizing, hoop jumping, slot playing, or cartwheeling for me!
Whew, at last!!! This finally hits the nail on the head. Everything you say is absolutely accurate and true. In my case first my father, then my husband. I felt invisible, no matter what I said or did. When I divorced after decades of marriage, I said I would rather be lonely because I’m alone than lonely in a relationship. As always. thank you! Can’t wait for next episode.
I feel like this kind of narcissism is particularly prevalent in mothers of large families. They find partners who were themselves victims of neglectful parents, so they are already used to that dynamic and fall right in line. There are also certain cultures that support this kind of "litter of puppies" aloof parenting style where the kids aren't well differentiated and where the neglectful parent is absolutely incurious about their lives. As the neglectful mother ages and needs more care, the biggest hoop jumpers get the most attention. The kids who don't jump on demand become dismissed even more. Also, flying monkey siblings will set you up to make it look like you're being a bad, neglectful child yourself, thereby reinforcing the cycle and weaving scapegoating into ongoing parental neglect.
My brother (my only sibling) is a neglectful narc, and I can tell you it took me a lifetime to realise and accept that he couldn't care less if I was dead or alive. ZERO INTEREST! It was a contributing factor to one of my mid-life breakdowns. I did endless "cartwheels through the living room" to try and get him to see me and giving great and thoughtful gifts for years, organised his 40th birthday (etc, etc,) and NOTHING changed! I walked away 4 yrs ago after my father died, and now the relationship is well and truly dead after him allowing it to die a long, slow death. He was supposed to be my big brother who looked out for me - nada! He cared more about his career and was and still is obsessive about it. To make matters worse he holds a huge amount of displaced anger towards me instead of his narcissistic mother ☹️. I also forgot to mention that he only ever "saw" me as his minion/slave to provide a FREE bed for the night and a FREE taxi. To roll-out the red carpet when he decided to "visit" which was a convenience to him only, as we live an hour away from the airport. I have also often thought that he seems completely INERT, lifeless, moves around in slow motion (dead behind the eyes). It's only because of being in therapy (5 yrs and counting) that I was able to walk away from a soul-destroying, soul-sucking relationship.
A lot of sisters live your story. No contact is the only way to survive.
You're situation sounds very similar to mine. My brother has discarded and ignored me my entire life. I've tried everything to try and get him to care about me, but he never wants to spend time together. He is either on his phone or with friends, leaving me to take care of my aging father alone after my narcissistic mother left. It's sad because he is my only sibling... 😢
Ditto
Same story for me with my younger only brother. I know how it feels. I am sorry.
This video finally helped me understand my mom and my sibling. Mine is not interested and wanted to hurt me when he could. I am sorry this happened to you. It is very confusing and painful when you want to be connected with someone who rejects you. I don't know how we find people who want to be in a giving, warm and accepting relationship. I suppose we have to give it to ourselves. What else is left to us? Alex, I hope the best for you. Your brother not only hurt you. He hurt himself.
My ex-wife narc told me on multiple occasions "you're not a priority to me" and "you're not real family" (as though you would marry "real family" 🤔). I was treated as if wanting affection & interaction with your partner was a unrealistic expectation. It was one of the major red flags that opened my eyes to what she truly is & helped me leave without any prolonged guilt.
These types of relationships are very lonely. My first husband was like this, and I used to say that I felt like a non-entity. My second husband was a vindictive and rageful narcissist. I will still take the neglectful narcissist any day over the rageful narc. Fortunately, I am narc free for over 4 years. Will not go back to dealing with narcs ever.
I drank a lot on the void of loneliness from this neglect, then I stopped using alcohol to numb the pain and realised there wasn't really a connection there no sharing, reciprocity, intimacy. I was married to him and he was married to his work, family of origin and friends he barely knew. I was last on his priority list and felt invisable in the marriage unless he wanted sex or me to be a maid, gardener or DIY person. I became so resentful that he was only nice to me when he needed me to do something for him. I stopped doing everything including having sex and instead of him wanting to work on our marriage he just lined up a new supply who would be submissive and he discarded me left me in limbo for 2years so I decided to divorce him so I could move on and be free. Live on my own with my dog now but not as lonely as I was living with ex neglectful narcissist.
Everything you have said is me .
I drank because I felt so unhappy for so long.
I realised I was killing myself with alcohol.
Thankfully I stopped, but I'm still living the same.
Very lonely life. he totally is the neglectful narcissist unless he wants sex then back to ignoring me, grunts, or smirks, or name calling. His rage is still horrendous and can happen so unexpected.
I'm so grateful I'm not alone 🙏
My sister had tried to figure out what kind of man she was married to... Disconnected partner, father and relative... Always reading on the dinning table... Disconnected...Always having to spend time in his bedroom watching tv, reading, or working from home... Great and generous friend... Top sales person... Good provider, though... Bread crumbling everyone in the family... A silent, passive-aggressive entity that has been absent from her life from decades! Thank you for another eye opening delivery!!!❤
Your sister's (ex?) husband sounds very similar to my father. Very similar. Good provider, but didn't care to spend time with the siblings or me, nor did he want to meet my Mom's or my or my siblings emotional needs, either. Dad seemed to prefer to spend most of his spare time when he got home from his job watching TV. He didn't want to spend time with me or my siblings.
Oh I just can't stop crying. I'm 58 years old and you have just described my father (and me) in a way that has never fully touched on the dynamic before. After he passed away about 12 years ago I thought perhaps that he might have had Bi-polar Disorder because I knew there was something radically wrong with him and the manner in which he was so totally absent in all of our lives yet there at the same time. The fact that my late mother was so warm and present and affirming somehow even highlighted his disdain for me and my siblings even more. Yes, he had a brutally abusive childhood which may go to the origins of his behaviour. I hated him and loved him at the same time but never felt that he even liked me a little. When he was rarely not ignoring us, he was behaving like a tyrant and put us and my mother through some terrifying situations. People outside our home always spoke so highly of him as he was a pillar of the community and his workplace. I used to think 'if only they knew'. I am crying because of what you said near the end about it not being personal as my life has been a mess and I am divorced for 7 years from a narcissistic man. My 16 year old daughter lives with me for half of every week. When she is with me it is as if a light has been turned on and my life means something and I feel great joy in her presence and am able to be a good mom to her - I think. When she is gone, I fall into a consistent pattern of self-neglect and isolation and grief. I have never fully recovered from the loss of my mother. I had to fight to get a surgery for my father a couple of years before he passed away. He was dying at the time for the want of surgery and only had days left as he had blood poisoning. I went to see him in the hospital and for the first time ever in my life he asked 'How are you Der?' and when I was about to leave he said 'I love you pet, don't you know that?' and I lied and said 'Yes Dad, I love you too'. I am grieving and crying over the loss of my own life and my lack of self-awareness or the means to get appropriate help. I don't want the rest of my life to play out like this and in some strange way, I don't really think he would want to see me like this either, but I don't know what to do. I'm not a 'victim' kind of person. This is the first time I have ever told this story to anyone. I'm sorry and I'm not sure for what.
It will be okay. You have a gift, your daughter. Your other gift is yourself. The grief and understanding of what's happened takes a very long time, it's ongoing and two steps forwards and three steps back. It's not easy because it was decades of being brainwashed. You have compassion for your father and what he went through, you understand it, you appreciate the good things that he did. Now imagine he was just someone you knew and not your father and the person he was. You'd still appreciate their good side have empathy for their difficulties BUT you would also look at the damaging side with clearer vision. You wouldn't accept the harm it was causing you for the odd time they said they loved you. You'd value your opinion more because you'd be on equal footing, a child, even an adult child, never has that equal footing. We always think our parents are different somehow. This cognitive dissonance keeps us believing they're better than us and we are wrong. What's wrong is that he was abused, didn't do any self reflection and then passed that trauma on to you. If he had given you a parcel of poison you'd throw it to the ground and say I'm not taking that. He decided to have a child, you weren't forced upon him. Him saying I love you absolves himself. He could have said, I'm sorry I wasn't always there for you and acted so inappropriately because you didn't deserve that and I think you're a great person. Put another way, I have guilt for things I have done wrong (despite my not originally understanding due to my own history) and when I see myself do that now I correct my behaviour. Not correcting behaviour and saying I love you just confuses the recipient who ends up with that dialogue in their heads of 'maybe I'm the bad peraon'. Have compassion for yourself, reconnect with things you like such as a good book or gardening, whatever it is. Then when your daughter is away you're working on being you. The you that your father should have noticed but didn't because he was too busy being himself. Accept he may have meant those words, but ultimately the biggest gift you can give someone is acceptance of themselves and that they matter ✌
@@bereal6590Thank you so very much for your kind and thought provoking response to my comment. It is very much appreciated and means a lot to me.
@@dearbh1736 all the very best to you :):)
This sooo hit home. Thank you for letting me know I am not crazy. 25-year marriage, I am feeling the same thing. Empty, lonely, abandoned, invisible. Weeks of silent treatment. NEVER helping around the house. Not reliable, not trustworthy, there but not there. No conversation, no emotional support, very little engagement and certainly no sex or other intimacy.
Wow!! I wish I had heard every word of this video 30 years ago. It would have saved me a lot of wasted time and energy trying to get my mother's attention, trying to "earn" her love and it would have spared me a whole lot of heartache. My mother always seemed disinterested in me from the time I was born. When you talk about children needing to be seen and witnessed it really struck a chord. I was raised to believe that children were there to obey their parents. It wasn't about the parents showing love and encouragement for the children, it was about the children praising their parents for all "they did for them."
I am glad that I am the one who is finally breaking the cycle of emotional starvation that comes from mother's family. My mother is the youngest of 8 children. She told me one time that my grandmother (a really covert and neglectful narcissist), that when she found out she was pregnant she thought about "taking something to flush herself" as she did not want any more children, but she was "so glad that she didn't when she saw my mother's face. WTF!!!! What type of mother talks like that? She was a very manipulative and dramatic. And her mother died of cirrhosis in her early 50's. She had lost two young children and had to have been extremely depressed. And I'm sure the pattern of emotional neglect goes back much further. My two youngest sisters have carried on this legacy of emotional deprivation with their children too. Sadly they have crippled their children by making them feel less than by belittling them and shoving religion down their throats.
My mother has severe dementia now. I am no contact with my sisters and their families due to their toxicity. I can have compassion for their ignorance and I also want nothing to do with them. It's up to them to solve their own problems. I can't. Thanks for all you do, Dr. Ramani.
I really appreciate this. You’ve described my mom. She lives down the road, and has minimal interest in our children, her grandchildren. The pain of seeing our children ignored by their grandmother while she goes on daily outings- never taking them out for ice cream or for a bike ride together like she does with her boyfriend- it hurts. Then there’s the random meanness or sudden interest and just as sudden ghosting. Confusing. My sister has told me for years that Mom doesn’t care- I am starting to accept it now. Thank you for explaining and for all your free resources.
I sympathise: my mother never took any notice of me, indeed she seemed determined to sabotage everything I wanted to do. She wouldn't let me apply for university even though my sister (the golden girl) was already there. When I eventually studied and gained a degree in later life whilst working almost full-time, there was no comment from her at all and she didn't bother coming to the graduation ceremony. LIke you, she took very little notice of my daughter growing up and almost none of her great-grandchildren who kept asking me who she was. I have to say when she died two years ago I just sighed a huge sigh of relief and felt empowered.
@@rosalindluper2801 So sorry for your suffering. Hope your peace continues to grow.
Holy cow. This perfectly describes my past life!!! It was BRUTAL! Always alone, ignored, baited…neglected, and psychologically abused. Confusing and painful. I was his “cover.” I can breathe now. 7 years out!
I am SO glad to have found this channel. I would be completely defenseless without this knowledge. I will no longer get angry and take the bait, no more reacting! Thank you Dr. Ramani.
Good luck with not reacting. You might do well for a good while but there will likely be a time when you will snap. But that’s okay though because we are human. Just go right back to ignoring his baiting.
Dr R is a life changer!
No more reacting 👍
this is it!!!!!!!!! 30 years with a neglectful narcissist. Crazy making. And that's me. Even though I got away from him 19 years ago. Only just starting to get my shit together
They are so far away that you don't know where they are -- yes. Like teflon; nothing about me affects him. Nothing "sticks."
I was neglected and the people were narcissists, but I'm not sure if they fit the full description of neglectful narcissists. They cared a lot about other people's perceptions of them and they became more aggressively abusive when I was in a health crisis. My ex-husband (diagnosed ASPD/NPD) completely ignored me so much so that he went to bed and fell asleep while I was literally dying in front of him. , so it was a shock to see the effort all of them put into destroying my life! In the discard, neglect became aggressive abuse, as my sons and I were mobbed and scapegoated by everyone who should have been most concerned about me and my children. I almost didn't get out alive, and ultimately I couldn't save my sons.
Oh. My. God. 😑
I’m invisible unless I’m needed for something. I feel more alone and lonely when I’m in his presence than when I’m alone. I was once “the love of his life “. We’ve been married for forty years. I left for twelve of those years however, we have a son together. I gradually got worn down and came back. We shared custody so I had to have contact with him. He did everything he could to make my life difficult. Now, like you said, I’m a ghost in my home. It’s so painful that I can’t even put it into words. I exist. I no longer have a life, I just exist. I feel like my hands and feet are tied and I’ve been thrown into a pool n told to swim. 😢 I feel confused all the time. I’m in a fog. I’m at a low point like I’ve never been before. I would never hurt myself. JS. I just want to be happy again.
Please don't give up on yourself. You are worthy of love and recognition. I felt like this, too. You are still valid. You are still important. Don't give up on you!
I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. I don't know all your situation, but if it's possible for you to get out of the house, you could maybe get some of your emotional needs met by getting out of the house and being around other people, like volunteering at a charity, getting a part time job, etc? Being around normal people could maybe help your mental health and help you gain new perspective on things and not feel so alone and isolated.
I was in the same boat. I just started buulding my own life outside of his. I learned a second language online (for free!), found a church in my city that speaks that language, made new friends there etc.
Had the flu once then finally went back to work and called “oh best beloved” that day, and I started to cough during conversation…He asked as if concerned, “Oh, do you have a cold or something?” It also took him over an hour to bring me a glass of water while I was sick that week. He had to take care of all his business first, making coffee etc. …one of a million examples that I finally wised up to eventually and moved on.
My biggest regret with all this is the impact his style has had on our four children as they were growing up and now as adults. There was not enough info on this 30 yrs ago.
At first, they seem like stoics - but after time, you realize you'll never have a real connection with them - ever.
People don't be hard on yourselves especially if you have been in a relationship for a long time. There just wasn't info - the fact that's still partly lacking in society.
I swear Dr. Ramani has been in my parents house watching my interactions with my neglectful, covert, narcissistic parent.
This description perfectly describes my late father. For years I thought he was simply "the strong silent type" or autistic, but he had all of the neglectful narcissist characteristics. His brothers must have had the disorder too maybe in different versions. My mother was the dependent personality type and totally intimidated by him. She made me believe when I was little that he was such a great father and provider and, hard worker. I think these behaviors had a negative influence on me. Only after both passed away I was able to find myself and my way in life.
Thank you Doctor Ramani, this is an important category! My first husband was a "malignant" narcissist. I married a second time to get away from my first ex-husband who was still bullying me. Then my second husband's behaviour puzzled me, he didn't scream in my face or insult me like the first one! No, this one "ignored" me and paid attention only to his computer and his computer friends! He never ever wanted to go out to do anything together. He acted like he was still single, spending any extra money only on himself, beer, cigarettes and whiskey! Also his arrogance and chauvinism was outrageous! I felt as if I was living alone constantly. He never introduced me to any of his friends or coworkers. I think they must have thought I didn't really exist! I am a little shocked that this description falls into the narcissism category but now it certainly makes sense! All the puzzle pieces are finally fitting together. Now sadly I realise I have wasted yet another "10" years of my life on an undeserving spouse!
I've already mentioned this elsewhere in the comments on this page, but I think my father may be a Neglectful Narcissist, but some of what you wrote describes my sister's long time, now ex-boyfriend. My ex fiance was also very self absorbed, but not in the same way that your second husband is. Your second husband sounds like my sister's long time ex boyfriend - her ex wouldn't help pay bills (she had to pay for everything), he would spend much of his time on the internet with his internet pals, and he would spend the rest of his time wrapped up in his hobbies.
Whenever her ex did get an occasional part time job a few times over the years, instead of helping her pay bills or buy groceries, he'd spend 99% of the money, 99% of the time, on him and his hobbies.
My ex was self absorbed, but in a different way (well, my ex did have one or two negative qualities in common with my sister's ex boyfriend and your second husband, but overall, there were more differences) - but I could sit in a room with my ex and still feel all alone. Definitely have that one in common!
Yep... Sounds just like me, 1st kid's dad (malignant - abused me in all forms, and then stalked me in the post separation abuse situation). 5 yrs gone/wasted...
9 years later I meet my 2nd kid's dad ( how lonely - just felt alone, no help from him at all) he rarely purchased anything for our daughter, and then blames me for the lack of closeness between them 🤦..
Neglectful narcissist ...yep spot on .. with some covert qualities aswell.. another 8.5 yrs of my life wasted.
I'm done with relationships. My pecker picker is Soo broken!
Louisa what you write belongs to a movie screen. How sad this has been. I encourage you to read and watch videos of Dr. Ramani about trauma bonding and cognitive dissonance. You probably come from a Narcissist parents or caregivers. Your story have crushed my heart. When you left your malignant N .. you were so vulnerable and trauma bonded that was so easy to connect with the neglectful dismissive one. Wow .. this is really unbelievable story.
Now, pick up for life and you go girl .. continue on therapy. Dr. R’s healing programs are amazing. You will be the person you were set out to be. Happy and at peace.
Thank you for your response!
Thank you doe you response! @@burnttoast3429
This was my ex-husband of 26 years. I wish I had known what this looked like when I was in the middle of it. The loneliness, empty promises when he wanted something, paying attention to everything else (like work, sports etc), not having 5 minutes to talk to me, hoop jumping, blameshifting, losing myself, not feeling worthy. He ruined every holiday and birthday. He used me and used me and blamed me for everything if I said one thing about what was important to me. He used everyone for what they could do for him and so arrogant as the smartest person in the room always. This came from my step-father, who was also a neglectful Narcisst. His father went between being neglectful and explosive Narcissm. I eventually learned to not include him at all in my life... I wouldn't fight and learned to stop caring. He didn't notice for 3 years.
This whole video is spot on. The 5 different counselors we went to never saw this... it was devastating.
They act bored and disinterested in you Yet, at the same time have an active social life outside their relationship It's almost as if being around you bored them to death Yet, they act animated around others
Oh wow, man- felt like a big foot stuck out & tripped me just now. Sounds like mine. The facial expressions I caught him giving me in the happiest & relaxing moments...I ...man, to turn my head after we just talked & laughed- then to see a shift in his mood as if he is bored- sudden quietness and moodiness, withdrawal of affection, suddenly takes the stage...but let the phone ring or us around others- he was the life of the party. Like he only did what he felt was enough- as if I was of no value to him. The uninvited opinions & undermining responses to happy moments & smirking...the dismissed conversations shared with him. So un-nerving to see this grim transformation of a person you love...to see the loss of life & love they lack in sharing. It does make you feel like a pet minus the petting on the head.often would wonder, but then the Lord who is faithful reminds me of His unfailing love for me. Thank you Lord- you've got a greater purpose & plan for me.
This video spoke directly to me. I’ve been married to a narc for (as of 4/28th) 20 yrs who is a neglectful narc. I have had serious health issues throughout the years and wondered why he never went into the hospital w/ me or even to visit when I was there for months on end. My latest surgery was this last November, the biggest one yet. I came home on a feeding tube and as usual he was nowhere to be found. Being as sick as I was/am he continues to ignore me and when he does speak it’s nothing but put downs and insults. Thank you Dr. R. for helping me realize it isn’t me…..it’s him! May God continue to give us all strength to move forward. They won’t change but we can. ✌️❤️🙏🏻💪🏼
Gosh, this is such a good video for people who struggle with a passive-aggressive, covert narcissist who breadcrumbs you and treats you with sullen disdain, pouting, keeping you wondering what you've done wrong. They love to hold grudges! Tough with someone who is COMPLETELY devoted to certain others, but keeps you as their scapegoat! You don't even know what they are mad about, except that you get the impression that they mad because you sometimes took care of yourself and said "no" to their demands sometimes over the years. BIG GRUDGES!!!!!
Thank you for making this video. I know it's rare, but that's why we really needed someone to cover it. Feels even more isolating when no one knows what I'm talking about.
These narcissists are the absolute best at victim playing because they’ll ignore and forget and dismiss every single thing about you or your needs, but don’t necessarily go out of their way to harm anyone. So when your entire life gets ruined by their neglect, bc they “forgot” about medical issues or bills they had to pay or something important at work or whatever it Mah be, they easily make YOU the villain for being angry. They blame it on their ADHD or autism, on anxiety or being Stressed, and now you’re the villain for having l brought up that their behavior has negative consequences. These are people desperate to be judged by their intentions instead of their actions. In my experience, they ruin life way worse than any “malignant” narcissist.
I think my Dad is quite possibly a Neglectful Narcissist, but I never got a victimhood vibe from him. But I've attracted a lot of Vulnerable Narcissists over my life, most of them friends. I just dumped one of them, an ex friend. She had a big victim mentality. It was draining to be friends with her because of that. Tried to get her to talk about fun or happy topics, but she only wanted to bond over negativity and complain about how unfair her life is and was, how everyone is terrible, etc. I think Self Pity and "I'm a victim" mindset are more traits of Vulnerable Narcissists than the Neglectful ones.
Raised by a narcissist, moved out at age 15. At age 23 married a narcissist, dang it all -( I think it felt familiar) , was advised that I was gun shy, ignore gut. Stay married 15 years & birth a child. Read a book Should I stay Or Should I Go. I go. 4 years later, I marry the neglectful. We have a child, he grows and I am now at age 63 - accepting is my constant.
Oh, and now also caregiver for my 83 year old narcissistic parent.
Understanding what was happening in my world took so long. Thank you Dr Ramani, 2015 I began understanding narcissistic behavior, though the word had been said. Thank you.
My husband is not physically agressive, but is neglectful... he could see me crying and not care, stopped talking me for days, not complimenting me, ingoring me... making me feel im not enough, is very similar to evitative attachment...
My mother is a covert narcissist and a neglectful narc. Describing this new sub-category is very clarifying and a relief in a weird way because it describes her behavior to a "T." Can't draw water from a stone.
Hmmm and she's coming tom so
Oh my gosh, someone finally put a name to it 😭 I can never accurately describe my ex because he’s not a typical narcissist. He never checked up on me, he wasn’t jealous, he didn’t call me names, etc all the things you think of when you hear the word narcissist.
He completely disconnected from me when we got married and started having kids. He always wanted to be alone but to an extent that was over the top.
I like being alone but he would even eat dinner separately from us, would go to the movies or dinner alone, which wasn’t a problem necessarily, most just thought it was weird but it worked for us. Until it didn’t, which was mainly because, at least from my perspective, he never EVER helped to do anything to do with the kids. Never went anywhere with us, hell he didn’t even remember that my mom and I took both kids at 3 months and 2 years old on a plane across the country for a week. Has no memory of it. He was too busy with work.
Would go river floating every weekend with his work friends saying that it was a way to advance his career. Which again, was fine, I was happy he had something fun to do, but it was every single weekend and when I asked if he could stay home one of the weekend days sometimes, he’d stay in the bedroom the whole time and wouldn’t interact with us hardly at all.
Then that ocd type behavior you mentioned, it immediately made me think of the times I’d tell him I need to go to the store for a couple things and he’d ask what I was getting and then he would proceed to do the math in his head for approximately how much it should cost and would only send me the exact amount I should need. Down to the penny sometimes. Like ok I need milk, bread, and a couple drinks. He’d send like $11.30 because that’s all I should need. It was so strange.
It’s weird because this is exactly what I’ve been looking for, some kind of explanation of what on earth was happening. Because I’ve got a textbook narcissistic ex that threatened me and called me every name you could imagine and all that jazz. Textbook covert narcissist. But my ex husband… I just couldn’t put my finger on what it would be called. Because so much of it was narcissistic. But with non of that typical mean or jealousy or checking on my every move. He never cared where I was or who I was with or what I was doing (which was nice sometimes I’ll admit) until it was effecting what he wanted to do. By the end of the marriage, I wasn’t even sleeping in the house, I was sleeping in the garage and if I’m being honest, I developed a pretty bad drug habit that likely stemmed and started from feeling invisible and like nothing about me even mattered. Not that I’m blaming him or the other ex entirely, I made the choices I made and I messed up my life pretty big and I’m working on being better now, but it’s been such a long road.
I just want to feel normal and happy again. I want to feel loved for me and not for what I’m useful for. I want to be told the things I’m doing right along with the things I’m doing wrong so I can fix myself. So many years now I’ve only heard all the ways I’m bad and I deserve to be miserable and I’m worthless and to off myself and everyone would be better off. Now… EVERY SINGLE TIME someone tells me even the smallest thing I’ve done wrong or disappointing, I will disappear or rage or both and then go cry by myself and make bad decisions. Rinse and repeat and I don’t want to be this person anymore.
You can do it x❤
Neglectful narcissist is when whether they're physically present or not, it's all the same When they're absent, you don't hear from them When they're present, they don't pay attention to you You could just as well cease to exist
I feel like at 58, it’s too late. I feel old and I allowed him to isolate me and prevent me from working. I’m financially dependent on him now. I’m so upset with myself.
There are double standards in my family. It's OK for some of them to ignore my requests to help with our aging parents, however, I am called out for not attending a get together or hand delivering gifts. The only time a sibling responded to me, was when I was offering a free ticket to an event. Now...silence. My counselor called me 'the utilitarian sister.' They will respond, when they can benefit.
I am tired of the excuses, the blame shifting, the accusations, the flying monkeys. I am working on radical acceptance.
Thank you, Dr. R.
Sounds like my step sister but it's complicated there are double standards everyone everywhere deal with double think every day it's a sighn of the times I think or a Gen x thing we had so much freedom nobody was parenting .
Same
This is one of the most validating and illuminating things I've seen so far. I could never explain to myself nor to anyone else my relationship with my mother... Why I don't love her nor care about her even though she swears up and down how her kids are the most important thing in her life. She is only capable of dealing with small children and that's like they're pets. Talks to me and my siblings like we're toddlers and only about herself, her grand achievements (they're really not) and what she's feeling and thinking. I grew up in silence and loneliness, she barely interacted with me in any meaningful way. No mirroring, no communication, no teaching. Now at 31, after another abusive/narcissistic relationship and 15 years of battling bad mental health, I realize how it made it impossible for me to feel like my feelings and needs are important and worth noticing, caring and dealing with and how it's damaged me and held me back throughout my life.
Oh my God I was with one of these for 8 months! I knew something was wrong but I couldn't figure out what. I could see narcissism and avoidant attachment style but it never made 100% sense, until now. It was horrible abuse. At the end I almost apologized for existing. It broke my self esteem. Thank you for this!
It's the dismissiveness for me - i.e. my pain is not important enough to acknowledge or attend to.